Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Cultivation => Cultivation Problems => Topic started by: John85 on December 04, 2011, 09:50:19 AM
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Has somebody tried to induce SAR by treating the plants with salicilic acid (aspirin)?
What were the results please?
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Has somebody tried to induce SAR by treating the plants with salicilic acid (aspirin)?
What were the results please?
Explain please.
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It is possible to boost a plant own defense mechanisms by spraying it with a very diluted solution of aspirin.Trials have been done for commercial important crops and by forestry research stations.
As it is cheap and easy i wonder if amateur gardeners have tried it too.
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An aspirin crushed in a vase of water is an accepted way to prolong the vase life of cut flowers, or some anyway.
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Aspirin is a effect drug in interfering with the body's inflammatory process thereby reducing pain and swelling.
Not sure how it would work on plants.
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Arnold,
Wikipedia's brief article on SAR says that it is activated by an accumulation of endogenous salycylic acid.
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Rob:
I have read that plants mount a response to stress just as mammals and most other forms of life do.
It would make some sense that the mechanisms are "evolutionary" similar.
Reading a bit about aspirin it was derived from the bark of a willow. It seems the American Indians chewed the bark to relieve aches, pains fevers.
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Also present in and can be produced from meadowsweet (filpendula ulmaria).
Down at the bottom of this page:
http://wildflowerfinder.org.uk/Flowers/M/Meadowsweet/Meadowsweet.htm
it says
"Aspirin, or Acetyl Salicylic Acid, is also found in plants, being a plant hormone (phytohormone) which not only helps the plant grow but also is involved in a pathway signalling the presence of plant pathogens and mediating the plant defence against the pathogens."
There's a bit more interesting stuff about plants' defence mechanisms and aspirin...
(declaration of interest, I know the person whose web site this is).
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David, quite apart from the interesting aspirin connection, that is a nice website... thanks!
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sorry to ask, what is SAR ?
:-X
???
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Systemic acquired resistance
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This a very technical paper on plant immune systems:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7117/full/nature05286.html
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you would use aspirin as a vaccine ?
:o :-\ ???
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you would use aspirin as a vaccine ?
Millions of people take one every day as a prophylactic (preventive) medicine.
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It is possible to boost a plant own defense mechanisms by spraying it with a very diluted solution of aspirin.Trials have been done for commercial important crops and by forestry research stations.
As it is cheap and easy i wonder if amateur gardeners have tried it too.
How 'very' diluted?
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I'm not sure we can call aspirin a "vaccine". It reduces the coagulation of red blood cells. This is a critical event in cardiovascular incidents like stroke and myocardial infarctions.
The less the red blood cells stick to each other the less the blockage of a coronary or cerebral blood vessel.
During one of these events medical personnel administer "clot busters".
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Surely the action of the salicylic acid in the case of its use to activate SAR does qualify as a "sort" of vaccine, in the way a lay person would understand it? In that the application is hoped to achieve an improved resistance to infection... in the way that a vaccine is understood to do? :)
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yes, I was fast but that's the picture.
and here I was not referring to people but to plants.
is it not a "sort" of "vaccine-like" "kind of procedure" in this "type of" "aspirin-like" SAR case ?
or should I be more straightforward ?
:-[
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I thought that we seemed to be thinking only of aspirin's application to people..... :-\ ;D
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Maggi:
Vaccines give you a 'small dose' of the disease.
Your immune system makes antibodies and keeps them on hand if the real thing comes along.
So you have a template to fight the flu or whatever better due to the presence of an immune system that has already seen this bugger.
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You're correct ArnoldT, my command over english again - sorry. :'( :-X :-[
I should have written: vaccine-like resistance induction. 8)
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Aha! I'm with you now, Arnold ... got brain engaged !
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Yessss !! 8)
I have some weird lexical and syntactic mixtures of english and french in the brain, making communication easier in basic norwegian with my polar bear (not a dog on my logo) than with human beings in english - please ask when something I write is unclear.
It is not always possible for me to guess how forumists understand my message and the reasons why of what they reply.
In the current discussion it took me quite a few answers before realizing that people were misunderstanding my statement and why.
This is even more difficult because I usually come with complex topics.
I do not want to bore people by asking them further efforts, but it is also my experience that this non-native impairment can be overcome with a few additional double-checking procedures when something gets weird.
Thanks :-*
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In the recently published past BISSG newsletters for the 1990's Mrs. A. Blanco-White suggests that burying a regular Aspirin ( not fizzing type) under the bulb of susceptible / infected Irises can certainly assist the plant in promoting its immune system. It is even suggested that , leading to a closure of stomata, the plants temperature can be raised , as is seen as the reaction in 'animals'. Did these theories eventually become discreditted, or shall I be popping to the local Pharmacist immediately in the morning?
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Years ago, there were a number of virused aroids being CURED, note, CURED, by spraying aspirin and dimethyl sulphoxide (if I remember the chemical well). Aspirin was totally uneffective unless it entered the "blood system". It seems the whole subject is forgotten by now but it did work, ONLY in aroids and all attempts in other types of plants proved useless.
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:( :( :( :( :(
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Alberto:
DMSO was used in treating orthopaedic injuries twenty years ago. It passed very quickly through the skin and carried a medication along with it. Problem was it gave the patient garlic breath. I guess the sulfur compounds were responsible. It is generally used as an industrial solvent.
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Alberto:
DMSO was used in treating orthopaedic injuries twenty years ago. It passed very quickly through the skin and carried a medication along with it. Problem was it gave the patient garlic breath. I guess the sulfur compounds were responsible. It is generally used as an industrial solvent.
Arnold - I think DMSO was in Dip N' Gro at one time, before it was banned. DNG certainly worked better back in those days. I was warned it was extremely dangerous and so am a bit surprised it was used on injuries.
johnw
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It was commonly used by physio's here on sports injuries.
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It was commonly used by physio's here on sports injuries.
Arnold, is that why the USA football team never won anything? :o :P ;D
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allegedly :-X :-X :-X
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David:
I could wax poetic for hours on why football in the USA has never reached the heights of other athletic endeavors.
After all we can swim, run, jump and catch.
More of a cultural barrier to adopting the world game. Our major sports have evolved to be attractive for a TV audience. Full of stats until you get bleary eyed.
I was involved in the most successful run back in the 80's and we couldn't break through the media blanket. We outdrew the baseball and basketball crowds and received minimal press coverage.
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After all we can swim, run, jump and catch.
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Didn't really want to get caught up in this thread ( thanks David! :P) , but I may have possibly isolated the problem, ;)
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David:
I could wax poetic for hours on why football in the USA has never reached the heights of other athletic endeavors.
After all we can swim, run, jump and catch.
More of a cultural barrier to adopting the world game. Our major sports have evolved to be attractive for a TV audience. Full of stats until you get bleary eyed.
I was involved in the most successful run back in the 80's and we couldn't break through the media blanket. We outdrew the baseball and basketball crowds and received minimal press coverage.
Just pulling your leg Arnold, wouldn't do for one nation to have all the skills ;D
Landon Donovan is in great form at Everton; Clint Dempsey always does a good job at Fulaham and I think Brad Friedal is still the best 'keeper in the Premier League.
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Was it ever shown that popping an Aspirin in the compost was a negative influence? ???
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Exactly, it was used to "inject" the aspirin into the aroid's tissues. Otherwise the aspirin was totally ineffective. Surprising that something so promising then is practically unknown nowadays.
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I feel a 'Frankenstein' moment coming on me. :o :o :o :'(
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Re football (soccer to me) in the USA, maybe it's just that people haven't had the exposure to it that they have in Europe. Recently, last year I think, some of our All Blacks (rugby, best in the world ;D) players went and spent time with black kids in trouble, in Haarlem, NY. They found not only that the boys were very excited to be involved in the game with top players but that the youngsters showed a lot of talent.
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Aspirin incidentally is a no-no for people who can't take anti-inflammatories like Voltaren for whatever reason. Every night on TV I see Voltaren/Ibuprofen/Nurofen products advertised and freely available without prescription and it terrifies me the risks people may be taking. Voltaren came within a couple of hours of killing me back in 2009.
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Lesley:
Aspirin has some of the same effect as non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDS). When they're taken together the effects can be magnified. This can included lack of blood clotting and gastic issues like ulcers.
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Brad was one of my U-16 babies when I worked for the US Soccer Fedeeration.
We all had the feeling that he would successful even at that young age.
Lesley:
Unfortunately soccer is not an inner city game here. It's played in the wide open suburbs where facilities are readily available.
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The absolute major advice to all here is if you are with a heart attack victim, issue immediately one aspirin, then call 999 for the ambulance. Government have spent a fortune promoting this advice.
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I am going to see what happens with some aspirin in the compost of some of my seed grown I. planifolia, as they always seem particularly prone!
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Lesley:
Aspirin has some of the same effect as non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDS). When they're taken together the effects can be magnified. This can included lack of blood clotting and gastic issues like ulcers.
Yep, it was an ulcer for me. Didn't know I had one until it perforated and found myself collapsed and in hospital. 5 hours in theatre!
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I am going to see what happens with some aspirin in the compost of some of my seed grown I. planifolia, as they always seem particularly prone!
What? To heart attack ??? :D
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Every night on TV I see Voltaren/Ibuprofen/Nurofen products advertised and freely available without prescription and it terrifies me the risks people may be taking. Voltaren came within a couple of hours of killing me back in 2009.
Ibuprofen (Vitamin I to some) is definitely something to be cautious with if you're on blood pressure meds. An ACE inhibitor and Ibuprofen together with dehydration can induce kidney failure.