Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Cultivation => Cultivation Problems => Topic started by: jomowi on November 13, 2011, 09:44:11 PM
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Any tips, please on getting rid of bamboo. I have 3 in my new postage stamp garden and want to make space for more interesting plants. I got one out which was a bit squinny and it came out easily, but the next one is a brute. I have made a start and it could take me all winter! If I expose as much root as possible and cut back the canopy would the frost help? How about brushwood killer, and would it be effective if I painted it onto deliberately damaged roots? They are very thick and seem to go down to Australia. The third plant has suckered and I managed to get out the very thick suckers some of which were 6ft. long. The main plant is between 2 conifers so extraction may be impossible. (The conifers give privacy, so want to keep them).
Maureen
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I'd have thought it easier to get rid of the conifers and keep the bamboo as a barrier/shield. Most conifers are pretty easy to get out.... though YOU should not be digging anything with your "bionic" hips!
Too risky to damage them :o
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The plant between the conifers is not particularly tall, Maggi, so would not provide any privacy, and privacy from removing the conifers would take a long time to replace. The other brute plant is tall, but its removal would not leave me exposed to being overlooked. Am taking it a bit at a time, and yes, I am conscious not to overdo things.
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Round Up, or any glyphosate based weed killer, will do the job, I had next door bamboo sending runners into my garden lets say it controlled them in a bit to well!!
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I'd be inclined to cut them back to a manageable height first then apply the glyphosate that Neill suggests. If the roots go down to Australia, you'd better warn Fermi and the others to have their weedkillers handy too! ;D
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I found the roots did not go deep and I could pry them up a bit and then peel them
back. This was when I was happy to maintain the central clump, so I was just
removing the edges.
When I decided to remove the bamboo entirely (after about 30 years), I cut all the
culms (which I am still using for beanpoles etc) and hired a backhoe driver. He did
the same thing as I used to do, but on a larger scale: grabbed one corner and
peeled all the roots back. Quick and easy.
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If the bamboo is within 15 feet of any building I would get rid of it even if it means destroying the conifers. I have done several jobs where bamboo has destroyed under ground piping and even come through concrete floors.
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Thank you everyone for all the advice. I guess glyphosate is best applied in the Spring to be most effective? Will have to mix it with detergent in order to wet the leaves thoroughly. Can't employ mechanical equipment as everything has to go through my garage and kitchen to get access to the garden! The brute plant is not suckering, but is damaging the fence between me and the neighbour. May have to have a rethink on the suckering plant and consult with neighbours on the other side.
Maureen
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Maureen you can apply it at anytime of the year, it just takes longer to work the colder it is
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Thank you everyone for all the advice. I guess glyphosate is best applied in the Spring to be most effective? Will have to mix it with detergent in order to wet the leaves thoroughly. Can't employ mechanical equipment as everything has to go through my garage and kitchen to get access to the garden! The brute plant is not suckering, but is damaging the fence between me and the neighbour. May have to have a rethink on the suckering plant and consult with neighbours on the other side.
Maureen
A well known Scottish nurseryman once told me that to get glyphosate to stick to difficult foliage (Marestail was the subject of our conversation) he mixed it with a little wallpaper paste.
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The writer Eric Grissell in one of his books (its at home and I'm at work so can't check) talks about dealing with bamboo by cutting the stems, then pouring neat weedkiller into the hollow centre of the stems - might be a way of weakening the plant before attacking the root system?
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Bamboo is a grass, so any grass killer will do it. Broadleaf specific killers will not be so effective. I have had good results with Glyphosate on the young spears in spring, not so effective on the adult leaves, in my experience.
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Thanks again everyone for your further replies. I am very hopeful between them all to get something to work, although I do realise it will take time.
Maureen
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A friend of mine had two very large bamboos in a very small garden. I suggested glyphosate which did not work. She eventually hired two very large men to dig them out.
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I wish I could make them survive my winters ;D ;D ;D ;D
Göte
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I wish I could make them survive my winters ;D ;D ;D ;DGöte
Göte - Have you tried the Fargesias? F. nitida was here for almost 30 years until it flowered and died, we have several thousand seedlings coming along and the first crop are in many gardens here. F. murielae is also reliable, it flowered in the late 90's but seedlings are now big. F. dracocephala 'Rufa', another clumper, is shorter but grows extremely fast - the photo shows a clump planted as a sickly single cane planted 7 years ago, received from Holland bare-root. Someday I will try Sasamorpha borealis which is said to be very hardy but a spreader.
johnw
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I wish I could make them survive my winters ;D ;D ;D ;D
Göte
How come they don't survive your winters? I know of many people growing bamboo in winter cold places in Norway. As johnw suggests, Fargesias are quite hardy.
My F. nitida flowered too many years ago and I still have to remove seedlings popping up all places!
John, F. dracocephala looks great! Do you remember whom you got it from in Holland? What is growing underneath it?
Another I like very much is Sasa palmata. It is bone hardy here.
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Hoy - I imported several bamboos from Kimmei (wonderful website!) back in the early 2000s. One was received as Fargesia 'Rufa' which later was "taxonomized" as F. dracocephala 'Rufa'. As mentioned and as shown it is only about 1.6m high after 7 years. F. dracocephala itself - and not one of the hardiest species - in the process became F. apicirubens. :-X
Yes, Sasa palmata is hardy here as well but a great runner. Some say Sasa senanensis is hardier as well as Sasamorpha. A surprise was Indocalmus latifolius which has the same big leaves but on a much taller plant.
The plant underneath is a real pest - Clintonia borealis.
We frustratingly have no success with the very tall Phyllostachys species long term. Seems we don't get enough heat to get true height.
johnw
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I have only grown bamboo once, back in Oz many years ago and thankfully I had it in a cement pot ( which the roots cracked), it went onto a bonfire.
Had no idea that bamboo flowers, does it all die after flowering?
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Hoy - I imported several bamboos from Kimmei (wonderful website!) back in the early 2000s. One was received as Fargesia 'Rufa' which later was "taxonomized" as F. dracocephala 'Rufa'. F. dracocephala itself - and not one of the hardiest species - in the process became F. apicirubens. :-X As mentioned and as shown it is only about 1.6m high after 7 years.
Yes, Sasa palmata is hardy here as well but a great runner. Some say Sasa senanensis is hardier as well as Sasamorpha. A surprise was Indocalmus latifolius which has the same big leaves but on a much taller plant.
The plant underneath is a real pest - Clintonia borealis.
We frustratingly have no success with the very tall Phyllostachys species long term. Seems we don't get enough heat to get true height.
johnw
Thanks, John.
I do not bother although S palmata is a runner. It has to compete with a huge Hedera hibernica that soon swamp even the largest birches.
I wouldn't mind a weed like Clintonia borealis! I try to establish different Clintonias on my woodland!
I have only grown bamboo once, back in Oz many years ago and thankfully I had it in a cement pot ( which the roots cracked), it went onto a bonfire.
Had no idea that bamboo flowers, does it all die after flowering?
Helen, I don't know whether they all die but several do. However, they flower every 100th year or so.
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Trond, think I would be ok then if I get a 50 year old baby ;D
Finding it hard to imagine a plant that only flowers every 100 years.
Makes me wonder why.
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I remember visiting Denmark some 10 years ago when it was pointed out to me that the urban landscape had changed completely because all the bamboos had died. There was a craze to plant them about 100 years ago, and people didn't know that once they flower they die. Well, they did and then they died. Not sure whether they have been re-planted.
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I have only grown bamboo once, back in Oz many years ago and thankfully I had it in a cement pot ( which the roots cracked), it went onto a bonfire.
Had no idea that bamboo flowers, does it all die after flowering?
Helen - The Fargesia spp. seem to be on a 100-125 cycle of flowering so our nitida seedlings will be good until 2124 (brought back from China in the 1880's as seedlings). I can give a written guarantee for a replacement if it flowers later. ;) All Fargesias that flower die afterwards, not immediately as a few canes survive over 2-3 years after but they eventually die after flowering. So the whole clump is gone in about 4 years. No one knows why the cycle except for the timing. It could be they leave their pests and diseases high and dry. Unfortunately they leaves the pandas in a bad situation as agriculture has reduced the diversity of species in their habit. Flowering is also accompanied by incredible seed drop which causes an explosion in the rat population in the Orient. Once eaten the rats move on to crops and grain storage sites.
Some bamboos flower every few years, some flower and appear to have died but later send up weak canes and then gradually gain steam as in Pseudosasa japonica which flowered here in the late 80's. The Phyllostachys that flowered here died completely and immediately. And worse no viable seed was produced.
Maren - I hope the Danes who planted them didn't complain that they lasted only 100 years! Quite a long-lived perennial what?
Hoy - There is a Fargesia drac. Rufa called 'Green Panda' that is for sale everywhere here but I don't know if it differs from the one I have. Sometimes these names are just marketing ploys.
johnw
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John, thanks for the information, am even more fascinated now.
I think I will do some research to find out more.
Good Winter project!! :)
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Helen - Two good sites are www.kimmei.com and www.bamboogarden.com You will get hooked!
Also Wolfgang Eberts' site - Bambus Centrum Deutschland
johnw
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I wish I could make them survive my winters ;D ;D ;D ;D
Göte
How come they don't survive your winters? I know of many people growing bamboo in winter cold places in Norway. As johnw suggests, Fargesias are quite hardy.
My F. nitida flowered too many years ago and I still have to remove seedlings popping up all places!
John, F. dracocephala looks great! Do you remember whom you got it from in Holland? What is growing underneath it?
Another I like very much is Sasa palmata. It is bone hardy here.
Norway has a more atlantic climate. I have tried Fargesia about three or four times. They always die in the first winter. The hardiest Phyllostachys will survie mild winters like 08/09 but die down to ground in cold winters like 10/11. I have not tried Sasa
Cheers
Göte
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I live in a relatively mild climate in Norway, made milder by the proximity of the fjord which never goes below about +6C in winter, and with a normal minimum of -18 to -20C. I had up to 10 different bamboos for about 10 years and most thrived. Then we had the last two very hard winters with minimums down to -22 to -24C and the roots completely frozen for over 2 months. None survived, even Fargesia mureliae. Sasa kuriliensis hung on the longest - one green leaf survived the first winter, but it was dead this year...
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Göte / StephenB
Why the Fargesias are not surviving is truly puzzling. The only problem I ever had was the very first winter (circa 1975) I planted my new Fargesia nitida outdoors. The plant had a very shaky root system and the following brutal winter saw no snow whatsoever. I remember stumbling home late one night; the wind was howling, the temp was in the -20c range or lower and you could not see your hand in front of your face in a dust storm. The canes froze back almost to the ground but it recovered and never looked back. A similar winter occurred in 1990/91 but it was not so cold. The worst winter ever was 1993/94 with a low of -25c but with snow and unfrozen ground, F. nitida and F. murielae were untouched.
A friend in much colder Prince Edward Island grew our seed of F. murielae and has many plants doing well. He found murielae hardier than nitida. However his recent problem with nitida may habe benn caused by its flowering stage. His Fargesias were 2/3 the height of those here. Inexplicably he had no self-sown seedlings of nitida whereas self-sown seedlings here survive in perfect shape.
Sasa kurilensis from Jim Wadick did not survive here. I wonder if the Kuril Islands get mountains of snow. That might explain why some of the Hokkaido bamboos are not terribly hardy.
johnw - first really cold night to -3c, big storm on the way - rain and/or snow.
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One important difference between our climates is perhaps that when it's -20C here there is no sunlight so there is little difference between day and night temperatures, so no respite. You are much further south and I imagine you will have significantly higher daytime temperatures as the sun will shine on the coldest days with clear skies?
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StepehenB - I should also have said that given our Milanese sun a small greenhouse is quite a horror to manage after the third week of January. Very cold outside and yet the sun causes the greenhouse temperature to soar. Venting is very problematic with our winds, vents open and close so frequently they eventually fail at the worst time possible or blow off.
johnw
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Gøte, although I live at the coast and never have experienced temps below -16C here (happen when the fjord freezes -twice in25 years-, it is a much smaller fjord than Stephen's) I have seen bamboos where temps drop to beyond -20C.
John, the spring here starts in January/February and lasts till May!
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John, the spring here starts in January/February and lasts till May!
Hoy - Here it lasted until yesterday!
johnw
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John, the spring here starts in January/February and lasts till May!
Hoy - Here it lasted here until yesterday!
johnw
Here we have fall from May till December.
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Here we have fall from May till December.
Ah, but you cannot beat us at winter.
johnw
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Here we have fall from May till December.
Ah, but you cannot beat us at winter.
johnw
Unfortunately true. :'( :'( :'(
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John: Couldn't get into my greenhouse for at least two months last winter as the door was frozen solid, the sun doesn't shine on it until late in February. However, it didn't matter as the soil and pots remained moist...
Trond: Did your fjord freeze over the last two winters or have there been colder years down there?
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Hardiness is a rather complicated issue. If there is 10 cm of snow, a sudden cold night of some -25° is unlikely to freeze the soil at all. However, a week of constantly -5 with no snow will do it.
Another issue is that the water will give off some 4 kJ/kg when dropping from +1° to 0° It will however give of over 300 kJ/kg when freezing. The ice will only give off 2 kJ/kg. This means that the act of freezing will be buffering the drop of temperature a fact that will save roots in cold spells of limited duration.
In my area, the building norms assume that the soil can freeze to a depth of 1.1m. It rarely does of course but 20 cm is not uncommon.
It is also a question of the dynamics of the winter. An early sharp frost will do more damage since plants are not yet prepared. A late frost in the spring can be even more damaging. A long mild autumn will be beneficial for some plants which will be well prepared for the winter cold but other plants such as Helleborus orientalis will start on the new year and be cut down when the winter ecentually arrives. I hae lost some Hellebores this way.
I am afraid that the Fargesias I have planted did not know that hey were hardy. They were killed by the frost and that is a fact.
Cheers
Göte
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John: Couldn't get into my greenhouse for at least two months last winter as the door was frozen solid, the sun doesn't shine on it until late in February. However, it didn't matter as the soil and pots remained moist...
Trond: Did your fjord freeze over the last two winters or have there been colder years down there?
Although the last two winters were very cold, especially the last one, the fjord didn't freeze over.
What matters is the temperature, the amount of fresh water atop the seawater and how windy it is. If we get a fair amount of rain late in the fall (or much snow) and no or little wind (which is rare) then the light freshwater lies as a layer atop the denser salty water and the freshwater easily freeze when we get cold weather. However, if the wind blows the two layers mix and it don't freeze.
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Here we have fall from May till December.
Ah, but you cannot beat us at winter.
johnw
Don't think I want to ;D
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I grow quite a number of vigorous bamboos, but made a mistake with a couple as they rapidly formed patches many metres across in the wrong place. They are gone now! The first I dug out and had approaching 1/2 ton of rhizomes. The next was growing through a Miscanthus giganteus plantation. We cut the miscanthus very short in winter, covered it with six inches of hedge shreddings from the local tree surgeon and sprayed the exposed bamboo with normal Glyphosate. Not a leaf re-appeared when it had died back. The Miscanthus enjoyed the mulch. The dug out one was not fully removed so I used the lethal hand shake on it. For this I don Nitrile gloves and pull a knitted thermal glove onto my right hand. This I dip in spray strength Glyphosate and form a fist so it does not drip. With my dry left hand I organise the weed to die, then grip the bundle of stems or leaves near its base with my right hand and draw my hand up sqeezing and scrunching if it does not wet easily. The damp bundle can now be safely placed on the ground amongst other plants. Some small weeds can be killed by placing one finger tip on them. It sounds slow but actually considering couch can be killed within other plants it is very time effective. Hedge bindweed does not need unwinding. I take a proportion of leaves between gloved finger and thumb and moisten them. Its very a relaxing way of spending an hour or two. Its better than digging out bamboos!
Roderick
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The easiest way to kill bamboo is to cut it down and immediately apply concentrated Roundup to the stumps with a small brush. If you use the dilute premixed stuff, I make no promises. There is no risk of killing other plants, and there is no manual labor required, except cleaning up the trimmings.
To kill horsetail, spray the foliage with Roundup at four times the normal concentration, during Summer. You will have to do this several years in a row to get complete kill.
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The outer layer of horsetail contains silica that prevents absorption of the Roundup. Crush the shoots first to break this surface and then apply the Roundup, a stronger solution is not needed. Eventhough Roundup is broken down within 2 weeks, there is no need to apply more than necessary.
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The outer layer of horsetail contains silica that prevents absorption of the Roundup. Crush the shoots first to break this surface and then apply the Roundup, a stronger solution is not needed. Eventhough Roundup is broken down within 2 weeks, there is no need to apply more than necessary.
It is always advised to use some method of crushing.... perhaps by thwacking with a stick... horsetail to breach the outer surface before applying weedkiller. This is more effective... and safer, than using the chemical at extra strength.