Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: mark smyth on November 05, 2011, 12:22:35 AM
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I bought a Euonymous elata Compactus because the label description and photo showed a plant with fantastic red autumn foliage.
Mine is poor. I would remove it and plant something different. How do your plants compare to mine? Any idea why mine isnt red?
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My Euonymus elata is always one of the best autumn shrubs. I am not sure it is 'Compactus' though but it is more than 20 years old and still a handy size. The autumn colour differ a little from one year to the next, more sun produces stronger colours. However, the colour is never quite like yours. Here is a picture:
Btw, did you mean E. alatus 'Compactus'? The twigs of your shrub doesn't show the cork ridges.
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Euonymous elata Compactus
My Euonymus elata
I haven't found anything about the species. Are ou sure it's exists?
Think Mark asked about Euonymus alatus.
(http://cs10343.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/45874243/x_cb7a6610.jpg)
It has 4 wings on it's branches. It's fall color depends on sunny place and poor soil.
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The twigs of your shrub doesn't show the cork ridges.
Yes. Mark's Euonymus isn't alatus. It looks more like E. europaeus.
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E. alatus cork ridges
(http://cs10775.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/97775227/y_438fa9ec.jpg)
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Euonymous elata Compactus
My Euonymus elata
I haven't found anything about the species. Are ou sure it's exists?
Think Mark asked about Euonymus alatus.
It has 4 wings on it's branches. It's fall color depends on sunny place and poor soil.
I agree, Olga. I realized that the name was wrong but forgot to correct before posting.
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Euonymus alatus f. compactus is a synonym of E. alatus .... spelling!
Mark's plant is something else, as Olga and Trond suggest, I'm sure.
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Euonymus alatus f. compactus is a synonym of E. alatus .... spelling!
"forma compactus" comes within the species botanically, but "Compactus" is a distinct horticultural cultivar with an AGM. Here it is listed on the RHS site
Euonymus alatus "Compactus" (http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/hortdatabase.asp?id=89363&crit=alatus&genus=Euonymus)
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Well done, Diane, thanks! I can rely on you to keep me right.... thank goodness. :-[
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My mistake - it's alatus with winged stems
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Trond and Olga, that is certainly outstanding autumn colour. I must find it here. But Mark, while not so fiery, yours is very pretty. :)
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It'll be in the bin next autumn if it does not perform
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Here are a few pictures of E. alatus 'Compactus', it was a house warming gift from friends 22 years ago. Every year I whack it back by 3-4', it's such a vigorous grower. It was widely planted in New England for the past half century or longer, but it is now banned from sale from some States such as in Massachusetts, because it is widely considered an invasive in eastern USA. Fall color can vary, depending on weather, most years its a brilliant red (the inner leaves that are shaded turn yellow or pinkish). Also seen here is regular E. alatus which gets much taller and grows more open, and typically has pinkish fall color. Interesting to note, young wood does not always show the strong corky wings.
Fall color on 10/29/2010
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Fall color on 11/01/2004, when I was building my deck
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Seeds, which are spread around by birds eating them:
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This site describes a number of cultivars although 'Compactus' is the one universally seen here.
http://hcs.osu.edu/hcs/tmi/plantlist/eu_latus.html
Variants
virtually all cultivars of Burning Bush are more compact than the species form, but they differ primarily in how compact they are, how corky or non-corky the stems are, cold hardiness, upright versus rounded shape, and whether they branch to the ground versus become leggy with age; the following is an expanded list of modern cultivars:
Euonymus alatus 'Bailey Strain' - similar in all aspects of appearance to 'Compacta', but hardy to zone 4; rare availability
Euonymus alatus 'Compacta' - a "compact" form maturing slowly at 8' tall by 8' wide, with virtually no corky wings on its first-year, relatively thin, but more dense green stems, but only hardy to zone 5; the most popular cultivar by far and abundantly available; sometimes alternatively spelled Euonymus alata 'Compactus'
Euonymus alatus 'Nordine Strain' - heavily cork-barked, branching to the ground, to 10' tall by 10' wide, hardy to zone 4; low availability
Euonymus alatus 'Phellomanus' - heavily cork-barked, to 10' tall by 10' wide, hardy to zone 4; rare availability
Euonymus alatus 'Rudy Haag' - similar in appearance but much smaller than 'Compacta', slowly growing to 5' tall by 5' wide, hardy to zone 4; rare availability
Euonymus alatus 'Synnestvedt' - branching to the ground, to 10' tall by 10' wide, hardy to zone 4; rare availability
Invasives.org, google Euonymus alatus invasive for lots of information:
http://www.invasive.org/gist/alert/alrteuon.html
Massachusetts Prohibited Plant List, this plant is banned from sales here:
http://www.mass.gov/agr/farmproducts/prohibitedplantlist.htm
Interesting: "Stop the seeds, stop the spread? Sterile burning bush developed"
Researchers at the University of Connecticut have painstakingly developed a sterile triploid cultivar of Euonymus alatus, winged burning bush.
http://www.invasiveplantguide.com/blog/
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Mark (Smyth) could you please make a photo of your Euonymus berry? The berry I can see at the third image looks not like of E. alatus (look at TheOnionMan photo).
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Mark (TheOnionMan) you've made an outstanding autumn scenery!
My E. alatus is from our botanic garden. It's branches are always strongly winged. Berries are the same to yours.
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I don't think Euonymus alatus 'Phellomanus' is a correct name. There is however Euonymus phellomanus. This species has corked bark and pink fruits.
See also:http://www.hkolster.nl/euonymus/ (http://www.hkolster.nl/euonymus/)
Strange that Euonymus alatus Compactus is so invasive in the US. Here in the Netherlands this form sets very few fruits/seeds.
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The label of my plant says it will only grow to 1m. Looking at Mark McDs plant mine has to come out as soon as.
Olga seeds from my plant below. Taken a couple of minutes back
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After looking to your pictures, I think it is Euonymus planipes (wrong !). Not the typical bud in dark red. :-[
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Olga seeds from my plant below. Taken a couple of minutes back
Look like E. alatus. ???
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The seeds look more like alatus to me, than E. planipes (= sachalinensis).
Here's a closeup photo of E. alatus 'Compactus' seed taken minutes ago.
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I also grow E. sachalinensis, one of my very favorite "small" trees, this species includes E. planipes as a synonym. The thick "fruits" or capsule segments on that species are acute; here's a link showing the fruiting strucures:
http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/potd/2007/09/euonymus_planipes_1.php
The Plant List on Euomymus sachaliensis synonymy, many synonyms including E. planipes.
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2803604
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Normal genetic variation in fall color of Euonymus alatus can range from orange to red to pink. Here in the midwest United States, the intensity is usually very vibrant, but can depend on several environmental factors.
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Can anyone suggest a name for a smallish seedling Euonymus I have which has PINK seeds. It comes from China but I have no other information about it. The leaves are quite long and very narrow.
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Can anyone suggest a name for a smallish seedling Euonymus I have which has PINK seeds. It comes from China but I have no other information about it. The leaves are quite long and very narrow.
Here's a PDF of Euonymus in Flora of China; 90 species.
http://flora.huh.harvard.edu/china/PDF/PDF11/Euonymus.pdf
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What's the difference between my seeds and yours, Mark?
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Can anyone suggest a name for a smallish seedling Euonymus I have which has PINK seeds. It comes from China but I have no other information about it. The leaves are quite long and very narrow.
Here's a PDF of Euonymus in Flora of China; 90 species.
http://flora.huh.harvard.edu/china/PDF/PDF11/Euonymus.pdf
You are very kind Mark. :)
Lesley there are a lot of Euonymus in Chinese flora as you can see. It would be better to have images of whole plant, berries, flowers, leaves and bark for identifying your Euonymus.
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Mine is just a small seedling so far but I may be able to find a picture of the plant, taken in 2008 I think, It was shrubby in outline.
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What's the difference between my seeds and yours, Mark?
The seeds look more like alatus to me, than E. planipes (= sachalinensis).
Back to fall color. I grow a lot of E. alatus for sale. Every autumn plants grown in pots turn burning red. But the plant growing in the garden often turns only pink more intense than yours, Mark. And it changes it's color and lose leaves later than potted ones.
For better color Euonymuses need in poor soil and sunny place. The soil at my garden is loamy and very rich that's why the color is not very intense.
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Can anyone suggest a name for a smallish seedling Euonymus I have which has PINK seeds. It comes from China but I have no other information about it. The leaves are quite long and very narrow.
The only Euonymus I can think of is Euonymus cornutus var. quinquecornutus. When propagated from seed this is a very slow growing plant with a rather open habitus. I think this plant looks better when grafted on Euonymus europaeus (more branches and better habitus).
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Another one with pink seeds is Euonumus nanus. I'll see if I can find some photos... mine were sold as E. nanus 'Turkestanicus' (actually, it was garbled the other way around with the invalid combination E. turkistanicus 'Nana'). It is a unique species with narrow needle-like leaves, and dark red long-tubular flowers.
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I couldn't resist showing E. alatus 'Compactus' in its last hurrah a couple days ago, it rather suddenly turned brilliant. The first view is from my dining room window.
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Then almost as suddenly, most leaves dropped, leaving a colorful confettii. Leaves are small enough that they can be left to compost naturally.
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That is a spectacular display, on and off the tree, McMark.
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Olga and Mark, here's the best I can do for a picture. There were two seedlings originally then one died in last summer's dry period. This is the remaining one just a couple of days ago, rescued from its seed pot and potted into something a bit wider and deeper. I'm quite sure it IS a Euonymus as when I saw the parent, it had more or less typical spindleberry capsules, open and showing the pink seeds. Besides, the man in whose garden it grew is a very fine plantsman and knows his plants better than most. As I recall, this remained evergreen through last winter and the one before, not long after it germinated. The parent was about 2.5metres high when I saw it.
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Lesley, it doesn't ring a bell. There are approximately 150-180 species, and I'm only familiar with a handful of them. Yours certainly has slender leaves, so perhaps with some further growth, flower details in the spring, and fruit detail next late summer, there will be enough diagnostic characteristics to work with.
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I have never seen any Euonymus that narrow-leaved but I found this googling a little:
http://www.esveld.nl/htmldiaen/e/euanle.php
However, Lesley, I think your seedling looks very uneuonymusly ;D
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Thanks Mark. I know it must have been a bit like showing a daffodil BULB and asking which it was. ???
Talking of which (well I wasn't actually) I wonder could someone give an opinion on the tubers below. They came in a kilo bag of new potatoes, sold to a customer at the local Farmers' Market last week. He brought them back on this last Saturday saying they were NOT, and he is right, there but are they dahlias as he suggested? I've potted them and will grow them on to see. He was not a happy man and said that most Dahlia vars are poisonous if eaten.
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I'll try and get hold of my seed donor by email and see if he has any further information in the meantime. I think he has been back to China since that time.
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Re. narrow-leaved euonymus with pink seeds (the husks, anyway - the seeds are actually red), here are some photos of what I have as Euonymus nanus 'Turkestanicus'. Of course, the few leaves left hanging on are all brown now. The leaves measure ~5cm long and up to 5mm wide. Chances are that yours is something more exotic than this one though, Lesley.
Edit: I guess it is actually the calyces(?) that are pink, and the flesh covering the seeds that is red. :-[
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Now you have me worried Lori and I'm wondering if, in fact, it was the husks (pods) that were pink and the seeds were red after all, because your leaves look incredibly like mine though they have never turned brown and have been green right since germination. Here is another pic taken before the other died. The fact is, I wasn't wildly excited by the thought of a euonymus and didn't look after the seedlings at all, though the donor's bush was very attractive in his the garden.
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Come to think of it though, my leaves are up to 10cms long even on the young plant.
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I sowed the seed in 2007 and have been looking through the pictures I took in that garden that year but it isn't there so I didn't take a picture of it. However I did take one of this incredible Daphne. The owner couldn't name it. Any suggestions anyone? Does the name van Houttei ring any bells?
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Thanks Mark. I know it must have been a bit like showing a daffodil BULB and asking which it was. ???
Talking of which (well I wasn't actually) I wonder could someone give an opinion on the tubers below. They came in a kilo bag of new potatoes, sold to a customer at the local Farmers' Market last week. He brought them back on this last Saturday saying they were NOT, and he is right, there but are they dahlias as he suggested? I've potted them and will grow them on to see. He was not a happy man and said that most Dahlia vars are poisonous if eaten.
Lesley,
Your bulbs look like Bluebells to me, definitely not Dahlias. Not even vaguely like Dahlia tubers, or at least not remotely like any Dahlia I've ever seen. I've definitely lifted bluebell bulbs that look like that though, or at least similar.
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I sowed the seed in 2007 and have been looking through the pictures I took in that garden that year but it isn't there so I didn't take a picture of it. However I did take one of this incredible Daphne. The owner couldn't name it. Any suggestions anyone? Does the name van Houttei ring any bells?
Lesley , you are on the right track : your Daphne is x houtteana 'Louis Van Houtte ' . I have it in my garden too.
A nice foliage plant -not very exciting in flower .
(edit by maggi to repair quote mishap)
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Come to think of it though, my leaves are up to 10cms long even on the young plant.
My E. nanus has leaves up to 3-4 sm long. Unfortunately I've never photographed the plant. It's not pretty enough for me.
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Lesley, I did take a pass through the Euonymus in Flora of China, and there are 8-10 species with leaves that are narrowly linear or lanceolate.
Regarding the plant sold here as E. nanus 'Turkestanicus', I wonder if it E. nanus at all, because my plant had dark red flowers, whereas the description of E. nanus in FOC describes the flowers as white. If I have time, I'll post my old photos... the crazy work week has begun.
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It could be that it is an relatively unknown Euonymus species but it shows great resemblance to Euonymus cornutus var. quinquecornutus.
Here are two pictures of a 4 or 5 year old Euonymus cornutus var quinquecornutus which was propagated by seed. I have also a grafted form of this small Euonymus but I do not have any pictures of it.
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It could be that it is an relatively unknown Euonymus species but it shows great resemblance to Euonymus cornutus var. quinquecornutus.
Here are two pictures of a 4 or 5 year old Euonymus cornutus var quinquecornutus which was propagated by seed. I have also a grafted form of this small Euonymus but I do not have any pictures of it.
Garden Prince, that's a very cool Euonymus, I like the spurred open capsules, reminiscent of an Epimedium flower or even a horned milkweed (Asclepias) bloom! In the Flora of China PDF on Euonymus, E. cornutus is among the 8-10 species that have narrowly linear foliage, very distinctive. The FOC treatment puts "var. quinquecorntus" in synonymy with E. cornutus. It is listed as found growing 2200-4300 m, so a good chance it is hardy.
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It's on the seedlist!!! :D
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It could be that it is an relatively unknown Euonymus species but it shows great resemblance to Euonymus cornutus var. quinquecornutus.
Here are two pictures of a 4 or 5 year old Euonymus cornutus var quinquecornutus which was propagated by seed. I have also a grafted form of this small Euonymus but I do not have any pictures of it.
GardenPrince,
Very cool Euonymus. :o And I see that it is very hard to get seed from it! (Not!) ;D That is an impressive cover..... it must pretty much have every flower set seed? Such a wonderful addition to a plant, to get a period where the seed is it's attraction, then to have leaves, autumn colour, branches etc at other times of year. Very, very cool. 8)
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It could be that it is an relatively unknown Euonymus species but it shows great resemblance to Euonymus cornutus var. quinquecornutus.
Here are two pictures of a 4 or 5 year old Euonymus cornutus var quinquecornutus which was propagated by seed. I have also a grafted form of this small Euonymus but I do not have any pictures of it.
What struck me was that the plant is flowering well from a young age.
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Always a great advantage at my not-so-young age. :)
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If I may go back to my post about an ID for some tubers, and their buyer's assertion that they were dahlias, not new potatoes, these have now sent up a little top growth and they ARE potatoes, but they weren't new ones, but the old tubers from which the new ones would grow and I guess that's how they got mixed in with the new ones. I have the guy's contact details so will email him and send a picture as well. At the time he said he had been a President of the NZ Dahlia Soc so obviously he doesn't know his dahlias quite as well as he thought he did. :o
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I bought the simple species a few years ago and have also been very disappointed but Olga's remark about "sun and poor soil" explains all. A case of wrong plant, wrong place for me.
Erle