Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Janis Ruksans on September 23, 2011, 11:48:31 AM

Title: Two new crocuses
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 23, 2011, 11:48:31 AM
This summer two new crocuses where described by Erich Pasche and Helmut Kerndorf in STAPFIA
The first - excellent new species pictured few years ago in our forum by Dave Millward. I went to search for it - and found. It was prepared for publication in September issue of The Plantsman, but then came June issue of STAPFIA where this new one was described as Crocus roseoviolaceus. Genetic research confirmed that this Crocus is identical Another - Crocus minutus - is closer to Crocus danfordiae but easy separable by its white stigma and black "beard" at anthers base. I collected it few years ago but didn't give attention to those two features regarding them only as variation in very variable C. danfordiae.
Janis
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: Martin Baxendale on September 23, 2011, 03:13:35 PM
I love the dark anthers and dark throat on C. roseoviolaceus  8)
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: I.S. on September 23, 2011, 03:39:56 PM
  Janis it is same for me also. I post this C. danfordiae before as a new biflorus with white throat and white style! but after I check your C. danfordiae and T. GOODE's C. danfordiae. I was doubt!.
  There is also another new subsp. from antalyensis!
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 23, 2011, 03:45:16 PM
 Janis it is same for me also. I post this C. danfordiae before as a new biflorus with white throat and white style! but after I check your C. danfordiae and T. GOODE's C. danfordiae. I was doubt!.
  There is also another new subsp. from antalyensis!

The new antalyensis is subsp. gemicii described by Osman Erol from Istanbul University.
Janis
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: I.S. on September 23, 2011, 03:58:22 PM
 Yes I have the picture from last year. And exactly from same location! I can post lather.
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: I.S. on September 23, 2011, 06:46:44 PM
  I think this one should be C. minutus. I post the pictures last february http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6629.150
  This was something between biflorus and danfordia in size.
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 23, 2011, 07:13:21 PM
  I think this one should be C. minutus. I post the pictures last february http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6629.150
  This was something between biflorus and danfordia in size.

Yours looks closer to original description by color, mine are bluer, but color isn't so important in crocuses, especially in blue-white group. Something strange is size. Mine are of typical danfordiase size, although I have few large "danfordiae", too. I put them under label "possible hybrid with chrysanthus" because they are of brighter color. Really danfordiase is very strange crocus with flowers from white to quite deep yellow and blue shades.
Janis
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: tonyg on September 23, 2011, 09:00:58 PM
Fascinating to hear of (and see) new taxa.  Thanks for sharing these with us.  I have grown C danfordiae yellow, white and blue.  I have had plants with dark 'beard' at bottom of anthers.  Indeed the blue form illustrated on Crocus Pages website has this feature plus white style.  I have also had one 'super size' plant appear in a pot of C danfordiae (ex seed).   As Janis says this is in some ways an unusual crocus, especially in the yellow/blue colour forms, no other taxa has this variation.  

Is C minutus really a new species, are many of the plants we grow as C danfordiae mis-named??  (Does it matter? :o)  I'm not sure!  If someone tells me that C minutus has white and yellow forms I'll have to stick with C danfordiae.
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: Janis Ruksans on September 24, 2011, 06:19:52 AM
Fascinating to hear of (and see) new taxa.  Thanks for sharing these with us.  I have grown C danfordiae yellow, white and blue.  I have had plants with dark 'beard' at bottom of anthers.  Indeed the blue form illustrated on Crocus Pages website has this feature plus white style.  I have also had one 'super size' plant appear in a pot of C danfordiae (ex seed).   As Janis says this is in some ways an unusual crocus, especially in the yellow/blue colour forms, no other taxa has this variation.  

Is C minutus really a new species, are many of the plants we grow as C danfordiae mis-named??  (Does it matter? :o)  I'm not sure!  If someone tells me that C minutus has white and yellow forms I'll have to stick with C danfordiae.
Dear Tony,
C. minutus and danfordiae are different genetically, too. After receiving of description of new taxa I checked all my notes and pictures of Crocuses labeled as danfordiae and only one stock from around 20 matched with description of minutus and just this one was collected approximately in place from where minutus comes. So I suppose that mine is true, although only genetic research could confirm this without any doubt. Really I don't like situation when determination of species is possible only in laboratory.
Janis
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: tonyg on September 24, 2011, 09:40:08 AM
Dear Janis
Thanks for confirming that genetic analysis upholds the new species.   Sadly I no longer grow Crocus minutus ... I had it in times before our second child was born.  Now we go and fly kites, ride bikes and visit nice places :) :) but not so much time for loving my crocuses :'(
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: I.S. on September 24, 2011, 06:04:33 PM
  This is the one which I believe is C. antalyensis subsp. gemicii.  :o
C. antalyaensis has a very great variations. It will not be surprise for me if each location turn into a new subspecies!
  My subsp. gemicii if from same location like on description. This was a little smaller than my the other samples of antalyensis. They were together with C. fleischeri and also they very similar in in size and in color to each other.
 
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: I.S. on September 24, 2011, 06:23:13 PM
Here is the pics of C. antalyensis subsp. gemicii
Title: Re: Two new crocuses
Post by: Lesley Cox on September 24, 2011, 10:28:49 PM
Lovely to have NEW crocuses, not that they're likely to reach this part of the world. But any crocus is a good crocus. ;D
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