Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: mark smyth on September 05, 2011, 09:48:05 PM
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It's been many yers since I bought, grew and failed with Frit imperialis.
I could smell them in a local garden centre today but I resisted. Now I'm itching to try them again.
Is there a guaranteed way to grow them in the open garden?
Gritty soil or humus rich soil?
Upright or on their sides
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well drained works for me, they MUST have lime. I have them in a cool position where they never flower, A hot dry position next to Eremurus himalayicus which also flowers well (better than the frit) there. I give extra water and growmore to this spot in spring there is plenty of lime rubble here. Also in the west of scotland finally achieved a flower (for the second time in ten years) in a well drained cool position with some sun, by annual dressings of lime and fertiliser. I flower eduardii and raddeana in large pots with a 50 / 50 mix of JI 3 and fine grit + extra bone meal and dolomitic lime and a little peat or leaf mould in the mix. they like the pots to be plunged or kept cool.
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Mark
be sure they have roots when you buy them
without white or creamy roots they are many times dead
and plant them deep 20 cm soil above the bulb
Roland
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I have lime stone sand would this do?
thanks for the advise
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Feed, feed, feed. Dad used to grow them and always put loads of manure on them.
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Sorry forgot that
Brian is right
My grandfather always said
They love to swim in the shit ;D
Roland
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I have a large clump !
When I leave them in the ground all through the year I get little or no flowers... no matter how much fertilizer I give them.. :'(
If I dig them up when the leaves have shriveled and keep 'em dry in a paper bag in the shed, all through the summer and replant them in late August (when the roots start growing again) in well fertilized soil.... they flower like mad !!! :D :D
For me, it's the dry summer that does the trick !!
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I read somewhere that the bulbs are best planted on their sides
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David
Forget this as soon as possible
we call this a fairytale
If you want I explain you where the story comes from
Roland
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David
Forget this as soon as possible
we call this a fairytale
If you want I explain you where the story comes from
Roland
OK Roland
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But, Don Montague, expounded the theory about planting on their sides on TV only last week.
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For buying Fritillaria imperialis bulbs
always if you are not sure
buy bulbs with roots like picture 3
the first two pictures are probably good bulbs
but picture 3 is sure a good one
Roland
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He did and I thought the bulb will eventually move back to the correct position.
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Other David
If you believe a fairytale
keep dreaming
if I start calling you John
and 2000 other people start calling you John
will not say your name is John
Roland
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Luc I am jealous already. Tomorrow I must go and see what I can find
Maggi, how does Ian grow his?
Harold McBrides do fantastic in very deep leaf mould.
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But, Don Montague, expounded the theory about planting on their sides on TV only last week.
That's where I heard it!
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David I suppose it's like moving snowdrops in the green
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Mark - good point about the bulb moving back.
So that hole is full of soil and the soil acts as a wick takes the water away?
It is interesting to see the ideas or myths that are mentioned on Gardeners World and how they come and go. In the last episode no mention of putting agapanthus in small pots to make them flower, but lots of emphasis on feeding. Compared to the previous time when it was small pots.
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and Agapanthus with big heads are less hardy than those with small heads :-\
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I have a large clump !
When I leave them in the ground all through the year I get little or no flowers... no matter how much fertilizer I give them.. :'(
If I dig them up when the leaves have shriveled and keep 'em dry in a paper bag in the shed, all through the summer and replant them in late August (when the roots start growing again) in well fertilized soil.... they flower like mad !!! :D :D
For me, it's the dry summer that does the trick !!
I agree about a dryish summer, but these bubs can dessicate if stored too dry, they are not rhinopetalums!
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Ok
How the story starts
Once there was a bulb-salesman
who bought a lot of Fritillaria imperialis bulbs
with probably Rhizoctonia (I am not sure of it is this fungus, but we call it hart-rot)
because the bulbs are expensive
he is selling those sick bulbs
a year later the customers complain that none of the bulbs arrived
The bulb-salesman asked the customer how he planted the bulb
customer answers , with the hole (the old flower-stem was there) up
Salesman O ,but than your bulb rotted , because water stays in the hole
and than the bulb rot
you have to plant the bulb on there side
so water can't stay in the hole
customer happy and buys new ones
salesman sells this time good bulbs (with roots are always healthy)
customer happy
and after twenty years the fairytale exist as true
its easy to control
there is a hole in the bottom from the bulb
just blow on the hole and you know
BTW I know the person who started the story
and it is not a friend
Roland
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there is a hole in the bottom from the bulb
just blow on the hole and you know
Oh. Thanks for explaining.
I had some once, they rotted, didn't work out the thing with the hole.
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There are so many "old wives tales" that get trotted out again and again.... the Beechgrove Garden on BBC Scotland last week was repeating the "plenty stones in the bottom for drainage" nonsense - it never seems to occur to these "experts" to address the question of properly draining potting medium. >:(
One of the Beechgrove bods is very keen on wittering about " scientific basis" but I can't for the life of me see any science in most of what he says.
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The worst of all
I am a bulb-salesman
when those fairy-tales are on TV or in a magazine
you can say what you want
Many customer don't believe you ???
Because it was ......................... who said it was true :'(
Roland
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repeating the "plenty stones in the bottom for drainage" nonsense - it never seems to occur to these "experts" to address the question of properly draining potting medium. >:(
I would like to see someone on TV demonstrate that their mix is better drained, often they throw a handful of sand into a wheelbarrow of compost.
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I use 20% Black Lava 10-20 mm in my potting mixture
it works fantastic
Roland
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hi,
In our last house we had a huge frit. imperialis that flowered well for several years. It grew to be over 5 feet tall.
It was never fed and grew in a sunny border. However we did live on the edge of the norfolk 'brecks'.
The soil here has no real structure at all - it was virtually all sand.
If you dug a hole to plant something the edges would keep falling in.
I've also grown them well in a poor thin calcareous soil over sand.
I think that drainage is the key to success along with a sunny position,
Regards,
David
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So in summary
plant deep, nose up, rich soil and added lime?
Will I add limestone sand above or below the bulbs?
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Never below the bulbs in the garden
you create a swimming-pool if it is raining a lot
Roland
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Thanks Roland
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My experience with frit. imperilis shows that they like very sunny position, very well-drained soil, preferably rich with nutrients. In such conditions they grow and bloom perfectly and can not be harvested for several years.
If the soil is moiture-keeping, it is better to put sand under and above the bulb to prevent rotting, and in this case annual harvesting is preferable. Exposing the bulbs to the higher temperatures during storage stumulates flowering of even smaller bulbs.
Planting bulbs on their sides make no sence. It is just a fairytail. It is true, there is a hole in the bulb, but it is not a one-side hole and water doesn't keep in this hole.
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Boyed
The sand-layer under plants is also a fairy-tale
it is one of the most stupid thing to do
I will explain why
The system is stolen from the botanic gardens
where they use it in pots for drainage
The big difference is:
A pot has a hole where the water can go out
a garden doesn't have a hole
especial for the more heavy soils
where you create a swimming-pool if it rains a lot
I hope one day that they stop talking about this fairy-tale
Roland
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Roland,
I don't very much trust the books, and in my opinion, the best is learning from growing experience. In my main garden, where the soil is moisture keeping, from year to year I lost some frit. imperialis bulbs, beacause of rotting. Since I started to put sand under and over the bulbs, I never had rotted bulbs. In my opininon, when you use sand the probability of rotting is minimized as fungas doen't live in the sand. But when you pland the bulb directly in the soil, then the bulbs is in direct contact with the soil, and in case of extra humidity the fungas can easily attack the bulb.
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Boyed
As long as you don't have a lot wet weeks
probably it works fine
but if it rains a lot
the drainage in the direction from your sand-bed is fantastic
and then the water stays in your sand-bed
and you have your swimming-pool
as long as the soil absorbs the water it is fine
but when you have a summer like we have this year
sure they will rot
better to plant them on little slopes
with a lot of sand mixed in
they are always dry that way
But probably the summers in Armenia are much drier as here
Roland
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Rolands theory, -that a hole in clay, filled with sand and bulbs will flood with heavy rain is correct. If the soil is not clay, or slopes, and drains quickly, then sand hopefully will protect the bulb.
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what about altitude?
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Roland,
The thing is that we live in very rainy area. I line in the North of Armenia, where the weather is quite rainy. Would you believe if i say that this year we had dayly rains from mid March until mid summer without any breaks.
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Roland,
The thing is that we live in very rainy area. I line in the North of Armenia, where the weather is quite rainy. Would you believe if i say that this year we had dayly rains from mid March until mid summer without any breaks.
Sounds like Devon ;D
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Roland,
The thing is that we live in very rainy area. I line in the North of Armenia, where the weather is quite rainy. Would you believe if i say that this year we had dayly rains from mid March until mid summer without any breaks.
Sounds like Devon ;D
Sounds strange, but it is true. There were many sunndy day, but with evening rains.
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Yes, Zhirair, we had lots of days like that here, but sometimes with rain in the morning then sun or sunny morning and rain in the afternoon or evening. There were not too many days when it rained ALL day.... but that is how it seemed to us! :-X :'(