Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Seed Exchange => Topic started by: Rafa on August 15, 2011, 11:27:35 AM
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This is a question for Maggy:
Since I notice Stephen Barstow is interested in edible and useful plants I am asking myself if is it interesting to the SRGC Seed List Distribution to receive seeds of plants without ornamental value. This morning I collected 4 species of Lactuca and other common plants.
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Rafa, A very interesting question.... I will pass it to the Seed Exchange Guys and see what they say. 8)
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thank you Maggy, maybe little amounts of seeds? as I suppose very few people could be intersted.
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It's a very relevant question Rafa, because the AGS list asks that in the main, seeds donations preferably be of alpine plants (or suitable for rock garden). I have no argument with that but as we know from this Forum, many or most members have other interests as well, and perhaps if a rare and beautiful tree or perennial is pictured, there is real desire for a seed source. I have about 30 packets to send to AGS and SRGC and perhaps a third are not alpine but are of great and desirable plants. I hope they'll be well received.
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I have received an answer from Stuart Pawley : "I think that we should not have special sections in the list".
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Stuart hasn't really answered the question though, has he? As I understand it, Rafa wants to know if a donation of (in this case) seeds of edible species would be acceptable. I agree we don't want special sections as it would mean if you didn't happen to be interested in whatever a section consisted of, you'd pass it over without looking, but I do like that ALL kinds of seeds are in the main, long list. Sure, alpine and rockgarden things so far as possible but a rare tree or a salad plant will be of interst to someone. Some of my most interesting receipts have been in the leftovers at the end, the lucky dip distribution. I can't ask for that now though because of not knowing (for MAF) what will be sent. >:(
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Mmmmm, quite.
Stuart also said: " If folk send in lettuce with its
botanical name, it goes in, like pisum sativa, as I don't know the
veggies' latin names so I assume the donation is worthwhile.
If a donor has a number of veggies I would list them without
a special mark, unless I have a mark to send readers to my Notes,
where there would be a comment and invitation to join the debate."
I'm interpreting that as a "no" :-X
In response to your last point Lesley: Some of my most interesting receipts have been in the leftovers at the end, the lucky dip distribution. I can't ask for that now though because of not knowing (for MAF) what will be sent.
It is my understanding that the Seed Folk can print a list of what they send you so that at least would make it easier for MAF, eh? I realise there may still be the odd thing not allowed but with a full list would the okay stuff get to you?
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That is correct Maggi, and if, e.g. (did you know that e.g, etc, and the & symbol were the invention of Cicero's secretary, a slave who invented the first shorthand system of taking written notes?), half a dozen primulas were received as lucky dip and listed by packers by their species name, MAF could and would check and distribute if they were permitted. But it seems a lot of extra work for the packers and it could also mean a lot of seed was destroyed by MAF, if not permitted. No use returning it to AGS as the distribution would be over by then and in any case MAF want about $50 plus to return even a few packets. The more packets, the highrer the cost. The most they wanted from me once, was $94 for about 20 packets from a private source. Thanks, but no thanks. >:(
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Yes, please, Rafa!!
Rafa said that he has wild collected Lactuca species, so these are wild edible plants. In the Mediterranean region there are now documented over 1,000 species of wild edibles traditionally used. Many are also ornamentals (edimentals).
I've recently gone through a list of plants found in the wild in Norway and find that some 30% of all species have been used somewhere in the world for food (although many are in the category famine food). Looking through the SRGC seed list I would estimate that perhaps as many as 30% are also edibles although most are also ornamentals. So marking as edible is certainly not necessary. A quick look at my plant list and I see quite a few that I got from SRGC which are (debatably) not ornamentals, such as
Tragopogon turkestanica
Laserpitium spp
Lycopus lucidus
Rumex hydrolapathum
Rumex nepalense
Ribes lobbii
Ribes maximowiczianum
Various Asparagus species
Anyway, in naturalistic plantings (as in my own garden) many non-ornamentals become ornamentals in my eyes..
I wouldn’t support including cultivars of common vegetables (there are many other sources for these), but I would support “non-ornamental” wild edible species including wild ancestors and relations of our vegetables as these are difficult to get hold of and my main reason for being a member. It would be a pity not to utilize the intrepid group of “rock garden” club seed collectors such as Rafa – as this is the only way to get some of these interesting species……
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The answer is to send such seed to the Exchange and it will be listed.... just not identified in it's own category.
As to the listing.... there is a facility for the seed numbers to be entered in a computer and the list automatically generated for printing. Not exactly onerous from where I'm sitting!
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I use to collect every plant in the wild, even if it is a weed... For example tomorrow I am planning to collect Antirrhinum sempervirens, which is a good rock garden plant? I think. But I will collect every plant that set seeds even if it is a Eryngium. Most of years I have a seed list with hundreds of species (Little amounts) that I collect in many cases only identified the genus. I am still an amateur botanist comparing my colleagues. I use to donate the most ornamental also to the SRGC but many other species are donated to other institutions.
When Stephen mentioned Verbascum pulverulentum is being rare in the wild in UK I thought, If some day something so elemental like V. pulverulentum disappear from the Spanish wild this will means something really wrong is happening...this make me think that I am right when I collect every species because one day could be rare.
Maybe if nobody select seeds of wild collected seeds from non ornamental species, SRGC could donate to germoplasm banks? I think botanical societies could make an important work in this field.
Stephen, pass me a wish list of Iberian plants and I will try to collect them.
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Wild collected plants where they are not in danger is good Rafa.
This summer I will see what I can collect locally.
Pat
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Rafa: That is very kind of you!! Here is my list of wild gathered food plant taxa, documented from Spain, mostly in the last 10-15 years in more remote communities where traditions have survived. I would be interested in any of these. By the way, this is by no means a comprehensive list - For example, I've omitted annuals and those I already have, but I've included others I'd like more of (more genetic variation within the species):
Allium ampeloprasum, Asparagus acutifolius, Urospermum picroides, Allium pallens, Allium roseum, Anacyclus spp, Anchusa azurea, Anchusa undulata, Andryala integrifolia, Andryala laxiflora, Aphyllanthes monspeliensis, Armeria arenaria, Asparagus aphyllus, Asparagus albus, Asparagus stipularis, Astragalus cymbaecarpos, Atractylis gummifera, Bryonia dioica, Carduncellus dianius, Carduus meonanthus, Carduus tenuiflorus, Carlina acanthifolia, Centaurea aspera, Centaurea calcitrapa, Chondrilla juncea, Coincya monensis, Conopodium pyrenaeum, Conopodium subcarneum, Crepis vesicaria, Cytinus hypocistis, Diplotaxis catholica, Echium plantagineum, Fritillaria lusitanica, Fritillaria pyrenaica, Halimium lasianthum ssp alyssoides, Hirschfeldia incana, Hypochaeris glabra, Hypochaeris radicata, Inula crithmoides, Lactuca saligna, Lactuca tenerrima, Lactuca viminea, Lathyrus cicera, Lathyrus clymenum, Launaea nudicaulis, Lavatera cretica, Leontodon taraxacoides, Leontodon tuberosum, Leuzea conifera, Limonium sinuatum, Malva tournefortiana, Mantisalca salmantica, Merendera montana, Molopospermum peloponnesiacum, Montia fontana , Moricandia arvensis, Muscari neglectum, Onopordum acanthium, Onopordum acaulon, Onopordum corymbosum, Onopordum macracanthum, Onopordum nervosum, Phlomis italica, Plantago albicans, Pterospartum tridentatum, Reichardia intermedia, Reichardia picroides ,Reichardia tingitana, Rosa pouzinii, Rosa sicula, Rumex induratus, Rumex intermedius, Rumex papillaris, Rumex pulcher, Rumex scutatus ssp induratus, Samolus valerandi, Sanguisorba verrucosa, Scandix australis , Scirpus holoschoenus, Scolymus hispanicus, Scolymus maculatus, Scorzonera angustifolia, Scorzonera crispatula, Scorzonera hispanica, Scorzonera laciniata, Silene diversifolia, Silene latifolia, Silene secundiflora, Sonchus tenerrimus, Stipa gigantea, Tamus communis, Taraxacum obovatum, Taraxacum palustre, Taraxacum pyropappum, Tolpis barbata, Trifolium alpinum, Urospermum picroides, Vicia lutea, Vicia villosa
Enough? ;) NB! There are many here I'm not familiar with!
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This is very little list Stephen ;D.
Well, I curently collected some of them. Yesterday I collected a very beautiful endemic Labiatae, Sideritis montana subsp. ebracteata I will also keep some seed for you if you are interested.
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Stephen, where do you intend to grow all these plants? Have you purchased more land?
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This is very little list Stephen ;D.
Well, I curently collected some of them. Yesterday I collected a very beautiful endemic Labiatae, Sideritis montana subsp. ebracteata I will also keep some seed for you if you are interested.
I'll send the bigger one tomorrow ;) (just kidding!)
..and yes, yes, yes please to the Sideritis - I hadn't included tea plants in my list...
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Stephen, where do you intend to grow all these plants? Have you purchased more land?
Well, you know your family's farm up the road from here - nice spot facing south...
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Stephen, where do you intend to grow all these plants? Have you purchased more land?
Well, you know your family's farm up the road from here - nice spot facing south...
I love it! ;D ;D ;D ;) ;D
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Stephen, have a looke at this list, little update in my collecting expeditions, today I collected:
Lactuca virosa
Lactuca saligna
Evax carpetana
Senecio adonidifolius
Senecio jacobea
Senecio nebrodensis
Senecio boissieri
4 Rumex (I have to identified)
Carlina corymbosa subsp. hispanica
Carlina vulgaris
Dianthus lusitanica
Onopordum acanthium
Scolymus hispanicus
Allium guttatum
Allium sphaerocephalon
Ornithogalum pyrenaicum
Adryala integrifolia
Vincetoxicum nigrum
Cucubalus baccifer
Sideritis hirsuta
Teucrium capitatum
Interesting?
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Stephen, where do you intend to grow all these plants? Have you purchased more land?
Well, you know your family's farm up the road from here - nice spot facing south...
I love it! ;D ;D ;D ;) ;D
I don't know what my relatives would say - using the dairy to nurse seedlings and growing "vegs" in the wheatfields :o :o
. . . . or maybe they're tired of the early rise to milk and long nights harvesting the cereals ;D
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Rafa: Thanks for your kind offer! These are of interest...
Lactuca saligna
4 Rumex (I have to identified) Possibly, but only known species
Carlina corymbosa subsp. hispanica
Carlina vulgaris
Scolymus hispanicus
Allium guttatum
Allium sphaerocephalon
Ornithogalum pyrenaicum
Adryala integrifolia
Cucubalus baccifer
Sideritis hirsuta
I'll send you a PM re-what I can do in return...