Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Amaryllidaceae => Topic started by: dominique on July 28, 2011, 02:07:30 PM

Title: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: dominique on July 28, 2011, 02:07:30 PM
My first Sternbergia sicula in bloom since july 23th, firstime I see that. I take photo this week end
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on July 28, 2011, 06:10:24 PM
My first Sternbergia sicula in bloom since july 23th, firstime I see that. I take photo this week end


 Sternbergia sicula 'Arcadian Sun' in leaf here; never so early before.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 28, 2011, 11:57:05 PM
Here in the Southern Hemisphere we also have Sternbergia in Flower  :o - the white one, Sternbergia candida  ;D
[attachthumb=1]
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: bulborum on July 29, 2011, 06:56:59 AM
Looks better picture as the last one
Thanks for sharing and making me jealous again ;D

Roland
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Miriam on July 29, 2011, 06:38:48 PM
Great!

No signs of autumn here yet...
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: udo on August 03, 2011, 07:55:16 PM
Hi all,
my first Sternbergia for this summer,
Sternbergia colchiciflora (with Colchicum montanum) :-*
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Alessandro.marinello on August 03, 2011, 08:14:08 PM
Udo
very nice
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerdk on August 04, 2011, 06:23:10 AM
Beautiful Dirk,
It seems autumn is arriving earlier in the eastern part of Germany!

Gerd
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: JoshY46013 on August 04, 2011, 03:30:19 PM
Uh-oh, why are they blooming so early!?! lol  We still have a month and a half of summer!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: johnw on August 04, 2011, 03:43:36 PM
Beautiful Dirk, It seems autumn is arriving earlier in the eastern part of Germany! Gerd

Gerd  - Here as well, this is the craziest year I have ever seen.  Lachenalia tricolor is in flower here as it is in New Zealand as it is at Bill Dijk's, 5 months earlier than usual for here.  Flower stalks are rising on Nerine sarniensis hybrids 4 months early. N. bowdenii v. wellsii leaves are just emerging outdoors while regular bowdenii have been up for months. Cyclamen persicum and rohlfsianum are flushing without water, far too early. Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus is putting on a good show, 6 months early. Cordylines are flowering for the second time, Hebe longifolia has been in flower since January, the Hedychiums and Crocosmias are flowering earlier than usual despite little warmth. The more you watch plants the less you know!

johnw - t & l last night and perhaps another 50-70mm of rain atop 70mm from the day before.  +16c
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on August 04, 2011, 04:29:21 PM
Everything is early here too. I have no Sternbergia flowers yet, but the leaves of some of my sicula's are 5 cm, so I have been forced to water them two months earlier than normal.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: hadacekf on August 04, 2011, 06:16:19 PM
Also in my garden Sternbergia colchiciflora flowers one month before.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: BULBISSIME on August 06, 2011, 11:23:53 PM
Nature is creasy this year !!! :o
Dom, do you have other bulbs flowering now like Colchicum ?

Lot of mines are starting to flower here.... ???
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on August 06, 2011, 11:55:07 PM
Fred, this is disturbing. Lots of different places and all the plants acting together.....
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: PeterT on August 07, 2011, 07:30:34 AM
like bamboos flowering :o, Has anyone managed to explain that one yet?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on August 07, 2011, 02:04:29 PM
Does anyone know how Sternbergia are behaving in the wild? I wonder if the very early flowering is a consequence of the exceptionally cold weather last winter?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on August 07, 2011, 02:28:37 PM
I was thinking of extra heat making dormancy shorter.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: jshields on August 07, 2011, 03:12:41 PM
I only have lutea here, and it has not sent up any signs of life yet.  We are having a very hot and rather dry summer here in the Midwestern U.S.A.  I'll keep watching.

My impression was that the Europeans have has a cold, wet summer.  Maybe their Sternbergia think Autumn came a month ago?

Jim
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on August 07, 2011, 04:53:18 PM
I was thinking of extra heat making dormancy shorter.
No heat here Alberto. Although Sternbergia sicula  is early into leaf, I expect the relatively cold summer will result in poor flowering.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on August 07, 2011, 06:27:03 PM
Thanks Gerry and Jim, it is the overall early autumn as you said. On the plus side, the longer cool season will result in fatter bulbs.

                           
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: PeterT on August 07, 2011, 06:52:50 PM
Thanks Gerry and Jim, it is the overall early autumn as you said. On the plus side, the longer cool season will result in fatter bulbs.

                           
I'm hoping so Alberto! after the past two frozen winters and short springs
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on August 07, 2011, 10:50:56 PM
So, instead of what it seemed years ago with those dreaful heat waves, the trend for Europe is for cooling down??
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on August 12, 2011, 12:50:26 PM
The Sternbergia autumn season has started here.

1. My first Sternbergia sicula flower (in a pot under glass)
2. Many more to come in the same pot
3. Leaves of he same clone in the open garden along with Colchicum montanum

This sicula clone from Janis Ruksans is very early. There is no sign of sicula graeca, sicula Dodona Gold or sicula Arcadian Sun.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on August 17, 2011, 07:25:35 AM
This morning the pot of Sternbergia sicula looks like that:

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on August 17, 2011, 07:33:47 AM
I had already shown these in early flowering autumn bulbs, but as this is the Sternbergia thread, here they are again..  ;)

Sternbergia lutea angustifolia in flower 1 month earlier than last year...  :o :o
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: bulborum on August 17, 2011, 08:06:39 AM
WOW Poul

 :o what a pot :o

Roland
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on August 17, 2011, 09:18:50 AM
This morning the pot of Sternbergia sicula looks like that:
Poul
That's really impressive Poul. 
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on August 17, 2011, 10:59:34 AM
Better get ready to resuscitate Ian again......... ::) ;D
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on August 17, 2011, 08:45:05 PM
Thank you Roland and Gerry!
Sternbergia really appreciate being grown in a big pot. I have several of the same sicula in smaller pots and they don't perform as well.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: BULBISSIME on August 19, 2011, 03:15:28 PM
Sternbergia clusiana is also flowering now, 1 month earlier than usual.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on August 19, 2011, 03:24:29 PM
Congratulations Fred!. I've had a bulb for nearly 10 years & never seen a flower.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Miriam on August 19, 2011, 04:30:35 PM
Sternbergia clusiana is also flowering now, 1 month earlier than usual.


Great picture and plant!
Here there are still no signs of autumn, but the weather is much milder compering to last year...
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: BULBISSIME on August 19, 2011, 05:08:14 PM
Be patient Miriam  ;)
Autumn will come , with lots of flowers  :o :P
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on August 21, 2011, 06:29:48 PM
Sternbergia clusiana is also flowering now, 1 month earlier than usual.


Nice to see clusiana in flower! I have never succeeded with this. I grow them in a deep pot, but they like to go still deeper. The best will be to plant them directly in the garden, but if I do so, I doubt they will flower in our cold and wet summer. Maybe I should plant them in the garden and feed well, and then when the bulbs have grown big in some years, dig them up and give them a hot summerbake in a pot?

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on August 21, 2011, 06:30:55 PM
Sternbergia sicula in the garden.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Pauli on August 23, 2011, 07:17:13 AM
Hello,

here pictures of my (up to now) best type of sicula: It is from the top of Pantokrator, the highest mountain in Corfu.
It is hardy, floriferous and multiplies very well for me here in Austria!

Unfortunately we now have the hottest week in the whole summer (up to 34C  !!!), so the flowers do not last very long this season!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on August 23, 2011, 08:00:13 AM
WOW Herbert,

Then it is a pleasure to grow Sternbergia!

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on August 23, 2011, 09:17:13 AM
Wonderful Herbert! I'm very envious.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on August 28, 2011, 06:44:49 PM
Sternbergia sp.

Some might regard this as a form of S. sicula.
A gift from Hans Joschko. From his own collection on Corfu.
The first flowering here.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on August 29, 2011, 08:00:27 PM
Some Sternbergia flowering under glass.

Sternbergia sicula from Corfu.
Sternbergia lutea

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on September 04, 2011, 05:41:32 PM
More Sternbergias:

Sternbergia lutea X sicula, 4 year old seedling flowering for the first time
Sternbergia lutea from the local garden center
Sternbergia lutea ex Greece
Sternbergia lutea has started flowering in the garden

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 04, 2011, 06:44:36 PM
Poul - Your Sternbergias are looking very good. After the rather cold summer I think flowering here is going to be poor.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: udo on September 04, 2011, 06:53:35 PM
Nice Sternbergia from all,
here two forms Sternbergia sicula,
left from Dodona in N-Greece with long leave
right from Olynthos in NE-Greece, free flowering
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: David Nicholson on September 04, 2011, 06:58:05 PM
Poul - Your Sternbergias are looking very good. After the rather cold summer I think flowering here is going to be poor.

No change for me then! ;D
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on September 05, 2011, 01:04:05 PM
Poul - Your Sternbergias are looking very good. After the rather cold summer I think flowering here is going to be poor.

Thank you Gerry! But not all are doing well. We had a dry and hot spring, so many of my Sternbergia pots were forced to dormancy too early resulting in smaller bulbs or even bulbs splitting up in many small ones. When growing in pots it is essential to feed them well and give them a long growing season. And then they need a warm and dry rest to flower well.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on September 05, 2011, 01:33:37 PM

No change for me then! ;D

Well that depends which ones and where you grow them.

In the garden the general problem is our cold and wet summer. But some performs better than others.
Sternbergia lutea 'Autumn Gold' and angustifolia does not need a hot dry summer to flower well. But they flower more freely in a sunny site. Most Sternbergias really appreciate being placed close to a south facing wall. I have two clumps of sicula 'Dodona Gold', one 5 cm from the wall, it give 20-30 flowers every year while the other clump 80 cm from the wall have 2-4 flowers in average.

Sternbergias in pots under glass are different. Here you can give them a warm and dry dormancy, but they are greedy and the roots go deep. So a good feeding and deep pots are beneficial.

Poul

Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 05, 2011, 05:31:21 PM

In the garden the general problem is our cold and wet summer. But some performs better than others.
Sternbergia lutea 'Autumn Gold' and angustifolia does not need a hot dry summer to flower well. But they flower more freely in a sunny site. Most Sternbergias really appreciate being placed close to a south facing wall. I have two clumps of sicula 'Dodona Gold', one 5 cm from the wall, it give 20-30 flowers every year while the other clump 80 cm from the wall have 2-4 flowers in average.

Sternbergias in pots under glass are different. Here you can give them a warm and dry dormancy, but they are greedy and the roots go deep. So a good feeding and deep pots are beneficial.

Poul
My experience is different Poul. Both my form of angustifolia (from Crete) & the John Marr form of sicula (from Dodona) need a very hot, dry bake to flower; neither is flowering this year though they are growing in a bulb frame. The only form of sicula flowering this year is 'Arcadian Sun' (pot grown) though the flowers are rather smaller than usual.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: tonyg on September 05, 2011, 06:24:07 PM
Poul - Your Sternbergias are looking very good. After the rather cold summer I think flowering here is going to be poor.
Gerry - mine seem to do OK after cool UK summers.  Curiously they seem better when we get rain during July and August.  This year they are flowering nicely in the open garden.  The only real heat they got was in April and May plus a week in August!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 05, 2011, 07:55:11 PM
Poul - Your Sternbergias are looking very good. After the rather cold summer I think flowering here is going to be poor.
Gerry - mine seem to do OK after cool UK summers.  Curiously they seem better when we get rain during July and August.  This year they are flowering nicely in the open garden.  The only real heat they got was in April and May plus a week in August!
Tony - the behaviour of plants defeats me!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on September 09, 2011, 02:11:49 PM
Sternbergia lutea ex. Iran
Sternbergia sicula Bisceglie

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Melvyn Jope on September 10, 2011, 07:09:04 PM
Two Sternbergia in flower now, the first S.greuteriana is now going over, the second S. minoica is just open today.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: udo on September 10, 2011, 07:53:47 PM
Nice Sternbergia from all,
here my St.greuteriana, a very small form and
St.sicula with two flowers on a stem
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: tonyg on September 10, 2011, 08:17:58 PM
Here is a dull day shot of my  neglected sternbergia.  They are flowering much better than the ones I have looked after!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: bulborum on September 10, 2011, 08:52:50 PM
Hello Melvin

Never heard from Sternbergia minoica
where is this one coming from

Roland
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Melvyn Jope on September 11, 2011, 09:36:16 PM
Hello Roland,

I have taken another photo of the plant today, with a different colour background.

The species was named by Ravenna in 2001 and is from a place called Malampes in Southern Crete.
I visited the location in November 2004 and having spent some time looking at the very varied population reached the conclusion that it is probably a form of (or is synonymous with) Sternbergia sicula. That is not intended to be dismissive, I think its a very nice plant.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: bulborum on September 11, 2011, 10:07:45 PM
Sternbergia sicula was my first thought
that's why I asked

Thanks for explaining

Roland
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 11, 2011, 10:59:56 PM
The most recent (2008) morphological analysis concludes that botanically they are all forms of Sternbergia lutea though it might be convenient to distinguish them for horticultural purposes.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: jshields on September 11, 2011, 11:45:28 PM
The most recent (2008) morphological analysis concludes that botanically they are all forms of Sternbergia lutea though it might be convenient to distinguish them for horticultural purposes.

Has anyone looked at their DNA?  I'm much more comfortable with comparisons of DNA sequences (maybe because I'm a biochemist?)

Jim
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Hans J on September 12, 2011, 07:31:14 AM
So far I know is Ben Zonneveld looking for material from Stern. minoica for DNA research:

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3188.0

Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 12, 2011, 09:21:24 AM
The most recent (2008) morphological analysis concludes that botanically they are all forms of Sternbergia lutea though it might be convenient to distinguish them for horticultural purposes.

Has anyone looked at their DNA?  I'm much more comfortable with comparisons of DNA sequences (maybe because I'm a biochemist?)

Jim
The basis for classification depends upon what you regard as the purpose of classification. I'm comfortable with morphology because for part of my life I was an experimental & theoretical morphologist.
So far I know is Ben Zonneveld looking for material from Stern. minoica for DNA research:

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3188.0
I imagine that Zonnefeld's work on Sternbergia is like his work on Narcissus. This involved  measuring the quantity of DNA which he regards as a measure of genome size. He does not carry out DNA analysis or sequencing.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Oakwood on September 12, 2011, 02:19:55 PM
Hello!  ;) It's my Sternbergia colchiciflora found in Crimea. At me this one flowers from the end of August. My Moldavian clone of it flowers usually from the beginning of October. Last year summer Crimean plants didn't bloom, just making cleistogamic seed pods in spring...
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: JoshY46013 on September 12, 2011, 03:52:01 PM
So out of the eight accepted species they're all thought to be forms of S. lutea?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on September 12, 2011, 04:22:52 PM
A species by Ravenna with absolutely no scientific standing? Are you sure?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on September 12, 2011, 04:26:46 PM
Sternbergia minoica Ravenna, Onira 5: 39 (2001)
 
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-287791
http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do?id=1018839-1           

 ???
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on September 12, 2011, 05:13:23 PM
Maggi, my limited English does not let me be sarcastic enough.

There is a problem of long time, that Kew accepts taxa as valid with intriguing criteria.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on September 12, 2011, 05:58:15 PM
My personal opinion is that they are all the same, Alberto.

Since I have no bias against little smileys to help my meaning, I will add this.......  ::)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 12, 2011, 06:04:50 PM
So out of the eight accepted species they're all thought to be forms of S. lutea?

No - I was commenting only on forms regarded as  S. sicula (& S. greuteriana). Sorry if my post was misleading.
This is the paper to which I was referring:
EWAN GAGE and PAUL WILKIN
A morphometric study of species delimitation in Sternbergia lutea (Alliaceae, Amaryllidoideae) and its allies S. sicula and S. greuteriana
Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society, 158, 460–469 (2008),

Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Pascal B on September 12, 2011, 06:27:54 PM
Gerry,

That is a rather peculiar use of morphometrics..... ??? I know particularly Japanese taxonomists can loose themselves in cladistic analysis but to use purely morphometrics for species delimitation is new to me. Given the relatively similar shape of Sternbergia flowers I can't really imagine how they could have arrived at any acceptable conclusion.....?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 12, 2011, 08:30:58 PM
Gerry,

That is a rather peculiar use of morphometrics..... ??? I know particularly Japanese taxonomists can loose themselves in cladistic analysis but to use purely morphometrics for species delimitation is new to me. Given the relatively similar shape of Sternbergia flowers I can't really imagine how they could have arrived at any acceptable conclusion.....?
Pascal - perhaps you should read the paper. Here is the abstract:

"The morphological chararacters used to differentiate the species Sternbergia lutea (L.) Ker Gawl. ex Spreng., Sternbergia sicula Tineo ex Guss. and Sternbergia greuteriana Kamari & R.Artelari were found not to possess discrete or consistently different states during an attempt to produce an electronic multi-access key to the genus. Thus, variation in floral and leaf morphology in the three species was further explored to re-evaluate taxon limits using herbarium specimens and statistical methods, including principal components analysis (PCA) and elliptic Fourier analysis (EFA). This confirmed that variation was continuous between the three species. Sternbergia sicula and S. greuteriana are sunk into S. lutea and a revised description provided. It is suggested that cultivar status is the most appropriate rank for the cultivated forms of the S. lutea complex."
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on September 12, 2011, 08:33:31 PM
Hello!  ;) It's my Sternbergia colchiciflora found in Crimea. At me this one flowers from the end of August. My Moldavian clone of it flowers usually from the beginning of October. Last year summer Crimean plants didn't bloom, just making cleistogamic seed pods in spring...

Nice colchiciflora Dima!
It is just the opposite here - no flowers this year, only leaves (and possible seed pods under ground). Last year they flowered nicely.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 12, 2011, 08:52:34 PM
Pascal - further to my previous post, Gage & Wilkin have now published a phylogenetic analysis. Unfortunately, I can only access the abstract online:

EWAN GAGE, PAUL WILKIN, MARK W. CHASE, JULIE HAWKINS
Phylogenetic systematics of Sternbergia (Amaryllidaceae) based on plastid and ITS sequence data

Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society 166, (Issue 2), 149–162, ( 2011)

"The phylogenetics of Sternbergia (Amaryllidaceae) were studied using DNA sequences of the plastid ndhF and matK genes and nuclear internal transcribed spacer (ITS) ribosomal region for 38, 37 and 32 ingroup and outgroup accessions, respectively. All members of Sternbergia were represented by at least one accession, except S. minoica and S. schubertii, with additional taxa from Narcissus and Pancratium serving as principal outgroups. Sternbergia was resolved and supported as sister to Narcissus and composed of two primary subclades: S. colchiciflora sister to S. vernalis, S. candida and S. clusiana, with this clade in turn sister to S. lutea and its allies in both Bayesian and bootstrap analyses. A clear relationship between the two vernal flowering members of the genus was recovered, supporting the hypothesis of a single origin of vernal flowering in Sternbergia. However, in the S. lutea complex, the DNA markers examined did not offer sufficient resolving power to separate taxa, providing some support for the idea that S. sicula and S. greuteriana are conspecific with S. lutea"
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on September 12, 2011, 09:02:52 PM
A lot of chitchat to express the same Maggi said in one short sentence.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Pascal B on September 12, 2011, 09:37:58 PM
A lot of chitchat to express the same Maggi said in one short sentence.

Alberto, based on the morphometric article for the 3 mentioned species, yes. Based on the phylogenetic analysis for the entire genus the abstract however reports 2 subclades, one with 3 species and 1 with lutea and allies (if I interpret it correctly). The lutea subclade was not sufficiently resolved with the used markers which could mean a. they are a single species in that subclade or b. different markers are needed. The second option sounds strange because in the first subclade the markers were able to do so and that probably lead the authors to suspect all taxa in the lutea subclade are conspecific. But the sample density seems low and 2 taxa were not sequenced so it probably needs some additional sequencing to be sure.

However, to say they are all 1 single species seems, based on the abstract of the phylogeny at least, not entirely justified.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Oakwood on September 13, 2011, 11:30:59 AM
Hello!  ;) It's my Sternbergia colchiciflora found in Crimea. At me this one flowers from the end of August. My Moldavian clone of it flowers usually from the beginning of October. Last year summer Crimean plants didn't bloom, just making cleistogamic seed pods in spring...

Nice colchiciflora Dima!
It is just the opposite here - no flowers this year, only leaves (and possible seed pods under ground). Last year they flowered nicely.

Poul
Thanks Poul, and when exactly did they flower at you last year? in September, or later? cause this Crimean clone I suppose flowers from August (if flowers current year))))
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on September 13, 2011, 07:06:48 PM
Dima,
I have two clones of colchiciflora, one from Janis Ruksans and one from Paul Christian.  Last year the first one started flowering August the 27Th and the other in the middle of September. Both under glass.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: hadacekf on September 15, 2011, 06:03:45 PM
In spite the hot weather, Sternbergia lutea flowers well.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on September 15, 2011, 08:29:14 PM
I see that the RBG Kew Checklist  has now accepted the conclusions of Gage & Wilkin, so S. sicula & S. greuteriana are now 'officially' included in S. lutea.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: jshields on September 15, 2011, 09:07:16 PM
We can certainly retain those distinctions for horticultural purposes.  We mustn't let the pedants spoil all our fun.

Jim
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on September 16, 2011, 01:08:43 AM
Then, do we accept Sternbergia "minoica"?
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Pauli on September 16, 2011, 02:00:45 PM
Hello,

Sternbergias start to flower here in Linz!

Sternbergia from Karpatos (thanks to a nice forumist) a small plant, flowering without leaves even this year

Sternbergia cf greuteriana (thanks to another forumist) - but I do not think true!  Dodonea Gold is not yet above ground

Sternbergia the gigant and the dwarf, both from Crete

Sternbergia from Corfu - this year with more advanced leaves than usual!

Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: JoshY46013 on September 16, 2011, 09:17:20 PM
We can certainly retain those distinctions for horticultural purposes.  We mustn't let the pedants spoil all our fun.

Jim

Amen!  ;) 
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on September 18, 2011, 06:09:24 PM
Herbert,
Very nice Sternbergias!
It clearly shows the great variation in flower shape and size in what some regard as one species (lutea)

The weather is bad here so the flowers of Sternbergia sicula graeca (as I still call them) will not open more than this.
A bit sunshine is appreciated, please!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on September 20, 2011, 09:14:11 AM
My prayers have been heard!
Yesterday there was some sunshine and Sternbergia sicula graeca responded immediately. The characteristic of this Sternbergia which comes from the Greek mainland is a  small flower on a very short flowerstalk. The petals are relatively long and narrow. Narrow leaves that lies flat on the ground.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: angie on September 20, 2011, 09:41:32 AM
Really lovely  8)

Angie :)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: hadacekf on September 24, 2011, 07:57:02 PM
Sternbergias in my meadow

Sternbergia lutea and sicula
Sternbergia sicula
Sternbergia sicula
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerdk on September 25, 2011, 01:42:18 PM
Great display - inside and outside!

Here is something which I still call greuteriana - please note
the differences. All specimen are from the same provenance.

Gerd
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on September 25, 2011, 02:36:15 PM
Gerd, there were several species growing in the same spot!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on September 25, 2011, 08:06:30 PM
Sternbergia lutea has started flowering in the open garden.
Sicula 'Dodona Gold' follows in a few days.

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on September 27, 2011, 09:23:34 PM
My sternbergia's are now starting to flower,two at the moment

Sternbergia sicula given to me as 'Molly Dawsons Latest' which I do not think it is but it has huge flowers and is a nice plant

Sternbergia sicula from the Peloponnese
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on October 08, 2011, 03:49:38 PM
Bad season for Sternbergia ?

I don't think so  .......... ;D
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: David Nicholson on October 08, 2011, 06:40:25 PM
Just as bad as normal for me. Not a single flower :(
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on October 08, 2011, 06:44:12 PM
Bad season for Sternbergia ?

I don't think so  .......... ;D

 I think you've been on holiday, Kris............ ???
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: krisderaeymaeker on October 09, 2011, 09:31:15 AM
I think you've been on holiday, Kris............ ???


Offcourse Maggi , they never flower that way in our gardens .But maybe dreaming wil help ...
We have seen this "Sternie" in the Peloponnese during our trip by the end of september . 
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 09, 2011, 10:37:00 AM
Just as bad as normal for me. Not a single flower :(

David - in your part of the world they should flower well - at least under glass. Even in my hot garden they will not flower outdoors. Feed heavily (with high K) & keep as hot as possible during the summer.  Despite my pessimistic remarks earlier, flowering here was not bad - just a bit later & more erratic than usual. 
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on October 09, 2011, 03:37:54 PM
Sternbergia greuteriana has start flowering in the garden
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: David Nicholson on October 09, 2011, 08:56:08 PM
Just as bad as normal for me. Not a single flower :(

David - in your part of the world they should flower well - at least under glass. Even in my hot garden they will not flower outdoors. Feed heavily (with high K) & keep as hot as possible during the summer.  Despite my pessimistic remarks earlier, flowering here was not bad - just a bit later & more erratic than usual. 

I'll keep trying Gerry.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: tonyg on October 09, 2011, 09:04:37 PM
I think there are better and worse(r) flowering forms, or at least some forms which are better suited to UK garden conditions.  I have several different ones planted outside and always get flowers on at least one of them, rarely all of them!  This year two clumps about 2 feet apart, one produced plenty of flowers, the other none.  Last year it was the other way around.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on October 09, 2011, 09:20:07 PM
I take great comfort from the Forumists who post photos here of their wonderful plants to convince myself that it is possible to get a great display of flowers on these yellow beauties! Certainly Poul Erik, Herbert and Franz don't have too much trouble it seems and they are not alone!  8) 8)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: jshields on October 09, 2011, 09:58:18 PM
Well, Maggi, let me post one more example for encouragement, and skip the half-dozen clumps here that have done nothing this year!

Jim
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on October 09, 2011, 10:02:37 PM
Very nice it is too, Jim.
 :)
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on October 10, 2011, 12:35:42 AM
I think there are better and worse(r) flowering forms, or at least some forms which are better suited to UK garden conditions.  I have several different ones planted outside and always get flowers on at least one of them, rarely all of them!  This year two clumps about 2 feet apart, one produced plenty of flowers, the other none.  Last year it was the other way around.
I agree that there are better & worse flowering forms though mine are all grown under glass - either  planted out or in pots. Thus S. lutea angustifolia from a Mike Salmon collection in Crete (MS 753) flowers regularly & prolifically with only moderate baking. S. sicula 'Arcadian Sun' derived from a collection by the Crooks (C 529) in the Peloponnese behaves in a roughly similar fashion & S. greuteriana (of unknown origin) also flowers regularly. By contrast, the form of S. sicula derived from a John Marr collection (JRM 3186/75) made much further north at Dodona requires a ferocious bake to induce flowering - my plants  have not flowered for the last two years. One might have thought that plants from  southern regions would require hotter conditions than those from the north but it seems not (admittedly the sample is too small to be really significant) so possibly  factors other than geographical origin are involved.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on October 11, 2011, 10:43:19 AM
I think you've been on holiday, Kris............ ???


Offcourse Maggi , they never flower that way in our gardens .But maybe dreaming wil help ...
We have seen this "Sternie" in the Peloponnese during our trip by the end of september . 


Sometimes they flower almost as well in our northern gardens:

Sternbergia greuteriana 2010 (same clump as in my previous post)
Sternbergia sicula Dodona Gold 2011
Sternbergia sicula Dodona Gold 2010

But not this year!

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on November 07, 2011, 07:49:02 PM
Sternbergia is still flowering...

Sternbergia greuteriana
Sternbergia sicula Dodona Gold

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: hadacekf on November 07, 2011, 08:01:30 PM
In my meadow the Sternbergia flowering too.

Sternbergia sicula
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on November 19, 2011, 07:29:05 PM
Probably the last flowers of Sternbergia sicula 'Dodona Gold'

It has been a very long season this year. Sicula has flowered from August until end of November!

Poul
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on November 19, 2011, 07:57:15 PM
Probably the last flowers of Sternbergia sicula 'Dodona Gold'

It has been a very long season this year. Sicula has flowered from August until end of November!

Poul
I cannot get over how long you have been enjoying those flowers this year..... lucky you!
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: jshields on November 19, 2011, 08:19:49 PM
Probably the last flowers of Sternbergia sicula 'Dodona Gold'

It has been a very long season this year. Sicula has flowered from August until end of November!

Poul
I cannot get over how long you have been enjoying those flowers this year..... lucky you!

I feel the same way.  I have only the commercial Sternbergia lutea planted here, but numerous little clumps in various beds.  Only one clump bloomed this year, and those blooms lasted only a few days, until we had a hard rain.  I think I'm not doing things right.

How much and when should one feed Sternbergia?  Bear in mind that this is a cold climate in winter.  The ground is still fairly warm, but will probably be frozen hard in another month.  It usually stays frozen until sometime in March.

Jim
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on November 19, 2011, 08:29:48 PM
Probably the last flowers of Sternbergia sicula 'Dodona Gold'

It has been a very long season this year. Sicula has flowered from August until end of November!

Poul
I cannot get over how long you have been enjoying those flowers this year..... lucky you!


How much and when should one feed Sternbergia?  Bear in mind that this is a cold climate in winter.  The ground is still fairly warm, but will probably be frozen hard in another month.  It usually stays frozen until sometime in March.

Jim
In my experience they respond to heavy feeding with a high potash fertiliser - once a week perhaps. In my part of the world they need to be kept completely dry & as hot as possible when dormant.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: jshields on November 19, 2011, 09:03:53 PM
.......

How much and when should one feed Sternbergia?  Bear in mind that this is a cold climate in winter.  The ground is still fairly warm, but will probably be frozen hard in another month.  It usually stays frozen until sometime in March.

Jim
In my experience they respond to heavy feeding with a high potash fertiliser - once a week perhaps. In my part of the world they need to be kept completely dry & as hot as possible when dormant.
Thanks!

We get about 39 inches/1000 mm of rainfall a year here, more or less equally spread through the year.  The beds where the Sternbergia clumps are planted get no extra watering, but they are not dry in most summers.  Since they have also not gotten much feeding in the past, I'll have to try that.  We use a soluble 20-10-20 in the greenhouses here; that might work.

Jim
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on November 20, 2011, 06:38:14 AM
Probably the last flowers of Sternbergia sicula 'Dodona Gold'

It has been a very long season this year. Sicula has flowered from August until end of November!

Poul
I cannot get over how long you have been enjoying those flowers this year..... lucky you!


Thank you!
The long season is one of the reasons that I love Sternbergia so much. Another is that each flower last for long time even if the weather is rainy and windy. The 3. reason is that they are not too easy - but if you threat them right they reward you.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: pehe on November 20, 2011, 07:14:46 AM
Probably the last flowers of Sternbergia sicula 'Dodona Gold'

It has been a very long season this year. Sicula has flowered from August until end of November!

Poul
I cannot get over how long you have been enjoying those flowers this year..... lucky you!

I feel the same way.  I have only the commercial Sternbergia lutea planted here, but numerous little clumps in various beds.  Only one clump bloomed this year, and those blooms lasted only a few days, until we had a hard rain.  I think I'm not doing things right.

How much and when should one feed Sternbergia?  Bear in mind that this is a cold climate in winter.  The ground is still fairly warm, but will probably be frozen hard in another month.  It usually stays frozen until sometime in March.

Jim

I feed my my garden Sternbergias one time a year with bone meal and one time with potassium sulphate. The soil is sandy loam. If you have a richer soil less feeding is OK.
My pots are watered 2-3 times with a tomato fertiliser and gets a teaspoon of potassium sulphate.
But other important factors for success is the location and what clone you choose.
In general they need a warm summer rest to flower well. The best spot in my garden is close to a Southwest facing brick wall. Here lutea, sicula and greuteriana flowers reliable every year. But some clones/hybrids need less summer baking. (Lutea 'Autumn Gold', angustifolia and some sicula clones)
I have some 'garden forms' of lutea too. In the open garden I am lucky if I have one flower (even placed at the wall). Some years ago I potted some of them and now they flowers very well in the green house. So this clone really appreciate a warm and dry summer rest.
My experience is that they are quite hardy  and can handle a lot of rain in the garden provided that the drainage is excellent. All my garden Sternbergias survived the last two hard winters where the ground was frozen for months.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: Gerry Webster on November 20, 2011, 10:32:27 AM
But other important factors for success is the location and what clone you choose.........
In general they need a warm summer rest to flower well. The best spot in my garden is close to a Southwest facing brick wall. Here lutea, sicula and greuteriana flowers reliable every year. But some clones/hybrids need with less summer baking. (Lutea 'Autumn Gold', angustifolia and some sicula clones)
I have some 'garden forms' of lutea too. In the open garden I am lucky if I have one flower (even placed at the wall). Some years ago I potted some of them and now they flowers very well in the green house. So this clone really appreciate a warm and dry summer rest.

I have 4 clones of sicula, 4 of lutea & 1 of greuteriana. They are all planted out under glass. Irrespective of treatment, the only 2 I find reliable & regular in flower are  lutea angustifolia & greuteriana. The others flower or not as they please. In the open garden none ever  flower.
Title: Re: Sternbergia 2011
Post by: hadacekf on November 20, 2011, 05:28:41 PM
I grow the sternbergias in my meadow and I never feed it. It usually stays frozen from January until  March. Our summer are dry and warm.
Sternbergia sicula flowers still in spite of frosty nights.
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