Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Peter II on July 25, 2011, 06:51:28 PM
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It blooms for the first time with me.
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6775/pict0015mq.jpg)
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1305/pict0016rz.jpg)
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5961/pict0018aj.jpg)
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.... and very nice it is too.
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.... and very nice it is too.
And healthy too, looks lovely.
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N.B. -- The correct name is Ismene (note spelling). Recent revisions based on DNA studies justify again recognizing it as a distinct genus, alongside Leptochiton and Hymenocallis.
Jim
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Hallo Jim,
I changed the spelling errors in the subject.
And what has taxa is Hymenocallis festalis?
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It should be Ismene 'Sulphur Queen'. 'Festalis' is another hybrid.
What a good plant. It seems to be 95 % narcissiflora and 5 % amancaes.
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I think the preferred genus name for 'Festalis', amancaes, narcissiflora, longipetala, hawkesii, etc., is now Ismene rather than Hymenocallis. This comes from the DNA work that has been done the past 10 years or so. In the Hymenocallid tribe are now three genera: Hymenocallis, Ismene, and Leptochiton.
'Sulphur Queen' is supposed to be [narcissiflora x amancaes], as I think were the other hybrids 'Pax', 'Helios', and 'Icon'. I had all of these hybrids thirty years ago, the latter three coming from Sam Caldwell. I wish I had them back again! None of them is really as yellow as amancaes, but it seemed to me (at least in memory) that 'Helios' was almost as yellow as amancaes. All were much easier to grow and to bring to flower than amancaes is.
Jim
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Jim, amancaes is extremely difficult to maintain alive away from its desert habitat.
I have another hybrid, 'Bucaneer' but it has emerged as a single bulb for over 15 years. It is white flowered and really stunning.
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Danke Jim.
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Jim, amancaes is extremely difficult to maintain alive away from its desert habitat.
I have another hybrid, 'Bucaneer' but it has emerged as a single bulb for over 15 years. It is white flowered and really stunning.
Show us a picture of 'Bucaneer' sometime, please!
I think I still have one very small seedling bulb of amancaes, but it does not get any bigger. It is far too small to bloom. It has green leaves for a few weeks in autumn, if that.
Jim
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It grows for three months in late winter/early spring. The rest of the year it is dormant. Amancaes, that is.
As for 'Bucaneer' it is obviously an Ismene and came from Thad Howard many years ago. I will take a photo for you when it flowers in summer.
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I happened to find a picture of 'Buccaneer' within a book online (http://books.google.de/books?id=9BvxFbG_jGsC&pg=PA99&lpg=PA99&dq=ismene+buccaneer&source=bl&ots=WtV5NQMthC&sig=a67k8w4Uo9eshMUcwbnopw9OnCA&hl=de&ei=OKExToWqC8rBtAbTq6HpBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=ismene%20buccaneer&f=false). Poor quality though so we're still looking forward to see Ezeiza's pic. :D
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A link well found, Thomas. 8)
It also confirms for me that the correct spelling of the plant is Buccaneer with two "c"s... which is what I'd expect it to be. I note is is listed in that way, with parents stated H. liriosme x H. calathina.
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Yes, the label reads 'Buccaneer' but there is no yellow in the throat as could be expected in a hybrid from two white species. It is surprising that a Hymenocallis can take pollen of an Ismene. 'Buccaneer' looks like a larger two flowered form of 'Festalis' and an Ismene in all its basic features. Doesn't look like HYMENOCALLIS liriosme at all.
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Alberto,
You don't think it likes like Hymenocallis at all? I think it shares some characters from H. lirisome, the cup is a lot more shallow than most Ismene hybrids and the Ismene species in my opinion.
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One would expect that a primary hybrid between two species would look like a 50-50% compromise between the two parents. Even a bigeneric hybrid, which we would now consider a cross between liriosme and narcissiflora/calathina to be, should look like an "average." I have never seen one of these hybrids, but I would very much like to!
Here is a case where weighing the nuclear DNA using flow cytometry might tell us if this is a true bigeneric hybrid. Sending small offsets of liriosme, of narcissiflora, and of 'Buccaneer' to an appropriate lab would be the way to go. Ben Vonneveld in the Netherlands has done this in the past.
Jim
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That would be Ben Zonneveld, Jim ;)
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That would be Ben Zonneveld, Jim ;)
Yes it certainly would! How old did you say I was?
Jim
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'bout thirty, Jim, just a year or two older than me ;D
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If the foliage is of Ismene, the flower is of Ismene and the habit is of Ismene,......................,then??????
Strange that in so many years, only one offset was produced.
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If the foliage is of Ismene, the flower is of Ismene and the habit is of Ismene,......................,then??????
Strange that in so many years, only one offset was produced.
Alberto, I agree if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...., maybe it is a duck? But any Ismene I've ever grown -- except maybe amancaes -- has always made offsets. I do think we (lots of us!) should try to cross Hymenocallis liriosme or occidentalis or any other available with as many Ismene species as we can. And then enlist the aid of my friend Ben to see what the results really are. Growers of Amaryllidaceae have for years dreamed of intergeneric hybrids that did not happen.
I grow Hymenocallis liriosme and H. occidentalis, although the latter does not bloom every year. I would need to get bulbs of fertile strains of the species, especially of narcissiflora. I will provide pollen next year, starting in about June, for my Hymenocallis to anyone who can use it.
Ben needs only a fresh piece of one leaf to do his tests, but the tissue has to be alive when he gets it for the tests to work. If you have offsets, it's easier to get the tissue to him alive and healthy if you send an offset.
Jim
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I can gladly send Ben a leaf but the only offset I would like it to end in the hands of a grower and not being tossed away after tests are finished