Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Amaryllidaceae => Topic started by: jshields on July 23, 2011, 05:35:41 PM

Title: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on July 23, 2011, 05:35:41 PM
I've first bloom on my plant of Crinum razafindratsiraea.  This is a miniature crinum, about the size of Crinum lugardiae from KwaZulu-Natal or a little smaller.  This came from I.B.S., but any in cultivation anywhere in the world probably can be traced to Dave Lehmiller, who discovered it in 1996 and described the species in 2000.  It is native to Madagascar.  This one is growing in a 2-gal. pot (22 cm X 22 cm).  The flowers are about 5.5 inches (ca. 13-14 cm) across and the peduncle is 12 inches (30 cm) high.

The buds appear growing perfectly straight up.  Just before they open, they arch over and point downwards.  When they finally do open, the flowers again face upward.

Jim


Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: bulborum on July 23, 2011, 06:25:01 PM
Very nice one Jim
just one for tropical temperatures ?
and the man or women who named it
used a little LSD ? :o
impossible to pronounce

Roland

(http://www.wetter-live.at/chat/smileys/Wetter50.gif)
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: ArnoldT on July 23, 2011, 08:08:48 PM
An exciting new species from Madagascar where it was found by Mr Alfred Razafindratsira and named by Dr. D. Lehmiller of Texas.
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Peter II on July 23, 2011, 08:09:17 PM
Sehr schön Pflanze. Die würde gut in meine sehr kleine Sammlung passen.
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on July 23, 2011, 08:11:26 PM
Dave Lehmiller named it for the man who was guiding him in the back country of Madagascar when he discovered this one.  I pronounce it more or less as:   rahza - finn - draht - suh -rye - uh but we would have to ask Dave for a definitive pronunciation guide.  It does much better if it does not see temperatures below 50°F in winter, while remaining quite dry.  I keep it in my "warm" greenhouse, temp around 55°F, in winter along with my Nerine bowdenii, various Strelitzia species, Proiphys, Rhodophiala, and Cyrtanthus.  It has taken this crinum since 2001, when I bought it as a small bulb from I.B.S., to struggle to grow to bloom size.  Tropical conditions would probably benefit it.

Jim
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on July 23, 2011, 08:21:07 PM
A more peaceful alternative for Dave would be Crinum alfredii.
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on July 23, 2011, 08:46:42 PM
Sehr schön Pflanze. Die würde gut in meine sehr kleine Sammlung passen.
;)
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: PeterT on July 23, 2011, 09:57:30 PM
Well done Jim, congratulations. It is lovely.
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on July 23, 2011, 10:56:58 PM
A more peaceful alternative for Dave would be Crinum alfredii.

Certainly easier for some of us to pronounce!  And the name seems to still be available.

Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on July 23, 2011, 11:12:30 PM
Like in the saying: "Why making it easy if we can make it difficult?"
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on July 23, 2011, 11:18:55 PM
That's how we tell the professionals from the amateurs -- and Dave's a real pro.

Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on July 27, 2011, 05:50:50 PM
Crinum variabile started blooming several days ago, but the heat has the flowers looking pretty bedraggled.  I'm pollinating some of them, but I don't know if they will set seed in the heat.  They certainly aren't photogenic right now.

C. variabile is native to the winter rainfall area of the Western Cape in South Africa.  It turns out that it is an opportunistic grower, so it grows quite well here in the summertime.  It is also remarkably resistant to freezing, so mature bulbs survive outdoors in the ground all year around, here in central Indiana.

This photo is from last summer.  Note that the flowers open almost pure white, but turn pink as they age.  It makes a very nice effect in the garden -- at least, when the weather isn't so blasted hot.  The plant is somewhat more compact than C. bulbispermum and C. x-powellii.  It does not do well in containers; I think it needs a very long, deep root run.  It should be much more common in cultivation than it is.

Jim
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: ArnoldT on July 29, 2011, 04:05:39 PM
Crinum Rose Parade
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on August 07, 2011, 08:14:40 PM
Nothing like 'Rose Parade' but here is a small species, Crinum lugardiae from KwaZulu-Natal province in South Africa.  This one bloomed a second time this season, the rebloom coming much later than usual.  A fully mature bulb of this species does quite well in a 2-gallon (22 cm x 22 cm) pot.  This is definitely not hardy in the ground here in Indiana, but its hybrid with bulbispermum seems happy enough outdoors in the ground year-round here.

Jim
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: PeterT on August 07, 2011, 08:25:33 PM
Does this species have a good scent Jim?
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on August 07, 2011, 08:35:50 PM
Does this species have a good scent Jim?

I don't know -- 70+ years of allergies and 40 years as a bench chemist pretty much wiped out my sense of smell years ago.

Jim
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Alessandro.marinello on August 08, 2011, 09:25:24 PM
This is a hybrid

Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on August 08, 2011, 10:20:14 PM
The way the colour of the outer stripe is reflected in the stamens and style is  very neat. Smart "design" !! :)
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on August 08, 2011, 11:01:39 PM
Most attractive!  Rich rose on pale pink.

Jim
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on August 13, 2011, 08:43:53 PM
Time to report back on self-pollinating Crinum razafindratsiraea:  no seeds.  None at all. 

Selfing C. lugardiae produced about 4 or 5 seeds that don't look very healthy, so I just stuck them into the soil in the same pot with their mother.  Unlike razafindratsiraea, I have several clones of lugardiae and I can try next year if I pay more attention to my crinums.  And if I get them repotted this winter; they are languishing from neglect, I fear.

And then, there is one bud on one pot of Crinum carlo-schmidtii.  We'll see what happens there, too.

Jim
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Roma on November 03, 2011, 07:58:29 PM
I noticed this Crinum with a flower still on it when I was at the Cruickshank Botanic Garden in Aberdeen for the late plant sale last Saturday.  I thought some of you might be interested.  It is an enormous plant and has been in that position for over 30 years.
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on November 03, 2011, 08:07:52 PM
It could easily be a hybrid, but it looks rather like Crinum moorei, which is a late-bloomer.  Very nice!

Jim
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on November 03, 2011, 08:11:27 PM
 Seeing the Cruickshank plant reminds me that Mike and Polly Stone had a HUGE clump of Crinum ( which I think was C. moorei) at Askival.... it flowered very well. Wonder if it is still there? Must ask John Owen!
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on November 04, 2011, 09:07:33 PM
JIm, looks like a very battered clump of the pink x powellii.  Maybe an elephant spend the night  on it.
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on November 04, 2011, 09:20:46 PM
I don't think there are too many elephants in the Cruickshank Botanic Garden  :o


Now that I think about it, the large plants at Askival may well have been C. x powellii.

Here's a Crinum postage stamp with an Irish connection ( the Stones live in Ireland now!)
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on November 04, 2011, 09:30:04 PM
I'll buy the x-powellii diagnosis.  Moorei's most distinctive characteristic seems to be the pseudo-stem the leaf bases make.  I don't really see pseudostems in the photos.  The main argument against x-powellii would be that the flower looks fairly attractive in the picture, while all the pink powellii I  grow really look pretty wretched in bloom.

Jim
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Roma on November 04, 2011, 10:12:03 PM
I don't know much about Crinums so haven't a clue about the ID.  I found a couple of pics I took on May 5th. I cropped the second to show what I think are pseudostems.  They look like long bulb necks.  The photo is taken from above so their length is not obvious. 
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on November 04, 2011, 11:38:38 PM
The detail of a red edge to the foliage is curious.
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on November 04, 2011, 11:48:12 PM
Moorei prefers shade, so too much sun could account for some defensive anthocyanin in the leaves.

Jim
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: majallison on November 05, 2011, 07:40:58 PM
Moorei prefers shade, so too much sun could account for some defensive anthocyanin in the leaves.

Jim

Too much sun in Aberdeen seems unlikely; it's about the same latitude as Moscow.
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on November 05, 2011, 08:01:27 PM
Moorei prefers shade, so too much sun could account for some defensive anthocyanin in the leaves.

Jim

Too much sun in Aberdeen seems unlikely; it's about the same latitude as Moscow.

That's a very good point!  Direct sun is a real problem for C. moorei here in central Indiana (40 deg N).
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on November 05, 2011, 08:40:13 PM
Moorei prefers shade, so too much sun could account for some defensive anthocyanin in the leaves.

Jim

Too much sun in Aberdeen seems unlikely; it's about the same latitude as Moscow.

That's a very good point!  Direct sun is a real problem for C. moorei here in central Indiana (40 deg N).


It's been said before, I'll say it again... to all intents and purposes, SCOTLAND is in the shade!!  :-X
It's why the natives are so good at getting skin cancer from their foreign holiday exposure!

Aberdeen, Scotland 57 9 N 2 9 W
Edinburgh, Scotland 55 55 N 3 10 W
Moscow, Russia   55 45 N 37 36 E
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: johnw on November 05, 2011, 09:23:18 PM
Maggi

re:  Aberdeen in the shade

And so is Halifax at 44° 38'!

johnw
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on November 05, 2011, 09:52:26 PM
Maggi

re:  Aberdeen in the shade

And so is Halifax at 44° 38'!

johnw
Dire, isn't it? Perhaps we should all ask for SAD lamps for our birthday gifts?  ::)
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: PeterT on November 05, 2011, 10:59:37 PM
I still lost all the skin on my back from sunburn in the 1970s and good crops of tomatoes  on the rose fence, - and that was in Dumbartonshire on the west side.
There were some hot summers in the '80s in Scotland too!
sometimes a hot day, though mild by the standards of a plants home climate, can still scorch it if it is growing in conditions that are much cooler most of the time.
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Ezeiza on November 05, 2011, 11:13:21 PM
Moorei has a "trunk", the leaves are in a rosette and are flat.

x powellii leaves are chanelled and the "neck" is short.

Flowers are impossible to be mistaken so differnt they are.
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on November 06, 2011, 08:59:49 AM
I still lost all the skin on my back from sunburn in the 1970s and good crops of tomatoes  on the rose fence, - and that was in Dumbartonshire on the west side.
There were some hot summers in the '80s in Scotland too!
sometimes a hot day, though mild by the standards of a plants home climate, can still scorch it if it is growing in conditions that are much cooler most of the time.
Aye, those were the days, eh?  :D :D
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: PeterT on November 06, 2011, 09:57:05 AM
ochtay yerny fa wrang Maggie  :-*
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Lillii on December 06, 2011, 11:46:31 PM
Just about a week ago i suddenly noticed that my crinum moorei had grown a big fat flowerbud  ;D, and when i came back from Holland on Monday i took some pictures. It smells wonderful! It's a huge bulb and i got it from a generous forumist in Norway, and this is the first time it flowers for me. Kind of late flowering i have heard, is this right? Does anyone have some information about what it needs? Fertilizers?
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on December 07, 2011, 03:57:16 PM
I've been growing a number of species of Crinum for the past several years.  They do not get optimal care from me, since I have too many for individual attention.  C. moorei should be rested in winter, so cut back on water and do not feed until spring.

When you feed almost any bulb, the rule is to use moderate nitrogen, low phosphate, and high potassium.  If you  can get it, use something like 15-5-25.  I use 20-10-20 soluble because that is the closest that I can get to the ideal mix in a soluble fertilizer for my feeder system.

Jim Shields
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Lillii on December 07, 2011, 10:21:45 PM
Thank you for advice Jim. I will let it bloom and then put it colder, that sound right? I don't have big space where i live so i wont be able to store it colder than 50-60 degrees Fahrenheits. Do you think this is enough or should i ask my boyfriends parents if they have a colder storeroom (i think they might have)?
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: jshields on December 07, 2011, 10:38:56 PM
I think 55°F is perfect for storing Crinum plants over winter.  The thermostat in my storage building is set at 55°F, in fact.  The disadvantage to my building is that it is quite dark, and this is a bit hard on the crinums when they want to leaf out in early spring.  I think you have an excellent plan for wintering your C. moorei!

Jim
Title: Re: Crinum 2011
Post by: Lillii on December 07, 2011, 10:48:47 PM
Thanks again Jim :) I will try to have it home where it belongs <3  ;D
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