Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 11, 2011, 11:39:02 PM

Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 11, 2011, 11:39:02 PM
Hello Everybody,
I think some tropaeolum growers might be interested in contributing ( or reading ) the Tropaeolum Newsletter published by the Geraniaceae Group
This is a small annual publication which is mainly based on growers' reports and photos
 As publications on tropaeolum are few this is an interesting complement to this unrivalled online forum.
For any information you can contact the publisher:
Mr Richard CLIFTON
The Geraniaceae Group Administration
5 Tower Street
Dover
Kent
CT17 0AJ
ENGLAND

J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on January 11, 2011, 11:45:59 PM
Thanks for that, J-P  8)

It may help to have the website of the Geraniaceae Group, too.... http://www.geraniaceae-group.org/

Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 15, 2011, 09:10:39 PM
A few years ago I was able to buy from a local (NZ) source, a small plant of Tropaeolum myriophyllum. I had never seen the bulb because it was in growth at the time and I simply left it in its pot where it came up for a couple of years but didn't do much else. The fine, thread-like stems were like those of T. polyphyllum but much more delicate and thin, and of a pretty sea-green colour. It hadn't flowered.

Today I received an enquiry from J-P about it and because I hadn't seen it for maybe 18 months and assumed it was dead, I thought I'd better check. I tipped the pot and found this very healthy-looking bulb, about the size of a walnut still in the shell. Dormant now (summer) there are a few places where it seems it might sprout away so I plan to plant it in a warm trough and see what happens. If J-P hadn't reminded me about it, I probably WOULD have lost it soon. I don't know the original source, maybe Jim Archibald or John Watson.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: tonyg on January 15, 2011, 09:15:57 PM
I've had no luck germinating Tr ciliatum, any tips? Maybe I should have done a more thorough stratification?
It germinates in the open garden here ... self sown.  I wish it would not - it is the worst menace I have introduced, impossible to eradicate.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 15, 2011, 09:22:12 PM
I endorse that remark, absolutely!
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Hoy on January 15, 2011, 10:09:26 PM
Well, I hope the aforesaid menace will spread more in my garden. I like it ;D
My modest plant can spread as much as it wants where it is growing now.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Roma on January 16, 2011, 05:08:34 PM
Hope you do not have too long to wait to see your Tropaeolum myriophyllum, Lesley.
I sowed seed of Tropaeolum hookerianum ssp. austropurpureum from F&W seed in January 1999.  3 germinated and grew on to flower.  I am not sure how often they flowered but I don't think I had seen any growth for at least two years before I retired in January 2004.  I took the pots home with me, one with one tuber and one with two.  The smaller pot was unlabelled so when it started into growth in 2007 I thought it was T. azureum.  It flowered in April and I did get a few seeds.  The ones I sowed have not germinated but I think there are still a few in the fridge which I will sow soon (if I can find them).  It did not grow again and when I checked it this year it had rotted away.
I tipped out the other pot and found two very healthy looking tubers.  I think they have been repotted at least twice before,  but have not appeared above ground for at least 8 years.  My watering regime can be a bit erratic as I have far too many potted plants to look after so that may be the cause or maybe its just as temperamental as Tropaeolum azureum.

Tropaeolum hookerianum ssp. austropurpureum flowering in April 2007 and tubers in June 2010
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 16, 2011, 08:51:28 PM
I certainly find T. azureum a bit temperamental, not coming up at all some years but it always flowers if it appears at all.

I thought I had put this picture here earlier but perhaps it was in the Southern Hemisphere thread. Tropaeolum ciliatum which is now almost smothering my large patch of blackberry!

Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Darren on January 17, 2011, 08:09:13 AM
Roma and Lesley, my limited experience echoes yours.

Two years ago I sowed seed of both T azureum and austropurpureum. Both germinated well and I got flowers in year one. In dormancy I treated the tubers of azureum in the way recommended by the Youngs and others; repot very early and not allowing complete dryness in summer. All have sprouted this year. The austroprurpureum I treated as I would most other species (dry dormancy) and only one of the three has re-emerged. I am sure the other two tubers are OK - just like yours Roma. Next year I will treat it like azureum and see what happens.

btw - I harvested my own seed of both. Austropurpureum germinated no problem but mindful of discussion on here about erratic germination of azureum and possible germination inhibition between seedlings and ungerminated seed etc, I sowed them all one seed to a pot. None germinated...

Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 18, 2011, 11:29:41 PM
Hi Lesley,
 Your Tropaeolum CILIATUM is really fine, and a little odd in that the flowers have purplish calyx which is quite unusual. The ordinary calyx color is green. Could it be a variant?
Did you collect seeds? I would be pleased to try it.
Best wishes
J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Paul T on January 19, 2011, 06:21:52 AM
Roma,

I just love your Tropaeolum hookerianum ssp. austropurpureum.  The idea of a purple Trop appeals to me (I like purple  ;D).

Lesley,

I love the colours of the Tropaeolum ciliatum.  Very nice.  The red and yellow contrast beautifully.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 19, 2011, 08:18:38 PM
Jean-Patrick, I bought this plant maybe 15 years ago, as Trop. azureum, from someone in New Zealand, whose Northern Ireland source should have been impeccable but turned out not to be! I've not seen any other plant of it so how it might be different from others, I don't know.

I usually cut off the flower swags when they've finished in order to keep the seed at a mimimum but there are still some left now, still green and when those are a little riper, if I catch them in time, I'll send them to you, with the warning that if you become buried under it, don't blame me. ;D

T. speciosum which is also a terrible weed in some gardens, I've totally failed to establish here but I now have a single seedling plant, still small, from my friend Susan's plant, and in her garden it climbs high among the rhododendrons and trees.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 19, 2011, 10:31:45 PM
Lesley,
Tr speciosum is said to be sometimes tricky to establish but when it is...many growers have echoed about this earlier in this topic. Planting under rhododendrons seems the ideal spot for they share the same growing conditions: Cool on the roots and full light on stems.
And..yes I would like to be buried under such bunches of flowers!!!
J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Hoy on January 20, 2011, 07:57:49 AM
T speciosum does very well here in western Norway. I have seen exceptional specimens in gardens here. Unfortunately my plant do not flower much too heavy shade, I think.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Stephenb on January 20, 2011, 08:50:20 AM
I had T. speciosum here growing up the wall of the house. It grew well and flowered the first years and also once self-seeded too. However, each year it would appear later and later and finally it was July before it came up. Somebody told me (I don't know if it's true) that this is because the roots force themselves down deeper and deeper until one year they are so deep that the shoots don't make it to the surface and it dies... Self-burial in other words.... ;)

I also have an old slide somewhere with a single bunch of red flowers about 1.5m up the house wall - the shoot had found it's way underneath the wooden cladding of the house and had emerged where the cladding meets the window - it looked rather odd....
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 20, 2011, 08:54:03 PM
That could be true of several Tropaeolum species. I remember that my mother had T. polyphyllum growing from the top of a barrel but when, after some years she went to lift some bulbs for a friend, they were all on the bottom of the barrel in a layer and could only be reached by tipping the barrel and quite emptying it.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Regelian on January 20, 2011, 09:19:41 PM
OK, experts.  Which hardy species would one recommend to climb a pergola.  I'm trying to avoid Ken Aslet, as it is so often used.  Is T. azureum hardy to -10°C?  How about T. polyphyllum or T. pentaphyllum?

And, then, does someone know a source of seed or tubers?

I have ordered some seed of T. azureum and T. sessilifolium from Chile and have seed of a few hybrids, as well as T. smithii and T. beuthii in pots chilling out until Spring.  Hoping for some success.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on January 20, 2011, 10:08:09 PM
OK, experts.  Which hardy species would one recommend to climb a pergola.  I'm trying to avoid Ken Aslet, as it is so often used.  Is T. azureum hardy to -10°C?  How about T. polyphyllum or T. pentaphyllum?

And, then, does someone know a source of seed or tubers?

I have ordered some seed of T. azureum and T. sessilifolium from Chile and have seed of a few hybrids, as well as T. smithii and T. beuthii in pots chilling out until Spring.  Hoping for some success.

Hi Regelian,
None of Tr AZUREUM or Tr PENTAPHYLLUM are considered hardy enough to be planted outdoors in Germany. Tr POLYPHYLLUM is hardy but only trailing and flowers for quite a short time. Tr TUBEROSUM would be a good choice as well as Tr CILIATUM or Tr SPECIOSUM. I think the latter would be the best flowering performer.
J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 20, 2011, 10:12:49 PM
For a pergola I would chose T. tricolor. T. polyphyllum wants to grow down rather than up and I doubt if it would be long enough in the stems anyway. I doubt if T. azureum would be tall enough either and for me at least, is above ground for just a short period.. I don't know a NH source though, for T. tricolor. Mine hasn't made seed that I've noticed. A friend has this growing over a tall brick wall.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Regelian on January 21, 2011, 08:18:55 AM
Thanks, Lesley, Jean-Patrick,

I think I will simply look out for seed of T. tricolor, T. speciosum, T. tuberosum and T. ciliatum, try them all.  As I understand it, the later does well under shrubs in partial shade.  Could be interesting.  Also, don't these all have slightly different bloom seasons?  Starting in Summer and progressing towards the first frost.  The pergola is long and can handle a few plants.  I hope I'm not making a mistake, as I did with Alstromeria, which has tubered so deeply, I'll never get it under control.  Fortunately it makes an excellent cut flower.  ;D
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 22, 2011, 08:23:59 PM
With me, ciliatum flowers early summer and tricolor flowers later winter through spring.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Alex on April 02, 2011, 11:23:37 PM
T. azureum today.

Alex
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: tonyg on April 03, 2011, 12:07:35 AM
Thanks, Lesley, Jean-Patrick,

I think I will simply look out for seed of T. tricolor, T. speciosum, T. tuberosum and T. ciliatum, try them all.  As I understand it, the later does well under shrubs in partial shade.  Could be interesting.  Also, don't these all have slightly different bloom seasons?  Starting in Summer and progressing towards the first frost.  The pergola is long and can handle a few plants.  I hope I'm not making a mistake, as I did with Alstromeria, which has tubered so deeply, I'll never get it under control.  Fortunately it makes an excellent cut flower.  ;D
I was given T ciliatum many years ago .... rather like the Alstromeria you mention it was a mistake to plant it out.  It runs quickly in my light soil and has defied all attempts to get rid of it.  It's no cut flower - more of a thug and every piece of root left in the ground seems to grow a new plant >:( 
I can send you a bit if you are still interested :P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 03, 2011, 12:34:13 AM
I have a few seeds to send too, but maybe you're thinking better of it Jamie? Let me know.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Hoy on April 03, 2011, 07:46:32 AM
Anybody growing T sessilifolium?
I planted seed couple of weeks ago and they sprouted quickly. Did a mistake yesterday when I moved the pots and broke the taproots which extended through the pot and down in the sand below presumably to make a corm deep down. Hope they make new roots :(
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Regelian on April 03, 2011, 11:14:11 AM
Lesley,

I AM a fool....for a pretty flower.  Of course I want the seeds, you silly girl!  I have a Pyracantha hedge where they will be able to run rampant, and hopefully into the neighbours garden.....I like the tenants next door, but their landlord is an explicative, actually a bunch of explicatives.  His son will love it!  (do you still have my address?)

Hoy,

I take it you have the T. sessilifolium from Chilean Seed.  I ordered them, along with T. azureum, and mine just popped out of the ground en masse!  I didn't expect it to be so easy.  I expect the azureum to be my disappointment.

I haven't transplanted any of mine, planning on leaving them in the pot and tranplanting the whole lot into a container when they get a bit stronger.  I'm expecting them to be winterhardy in Cologne, but am not really sure.  From my experience with other plants, the tap root is typically less important as we think.  I remember reading of an incident at Kew, whereby the gardener clipped the tap root of all the Welwitschia seedlings, as it was too long for the already over deep containers.  Well, no harm done.  Actually, they seem to have grown better than with the tap root full length.  I get the feeling, the tap root simply need to reach a certain length for general survival, over this length, they come back with more finer, branched roots.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 03, 2011, 09:58:49 PM
I'll send them off then. I already have your address. :)
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Regelian on April 03, 2011, 10:06:15 PM
Thanks, Lesley,

I'm just off to bed....something to dream about.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on April 04, 2011, 12:33:47 AM
Could turn out to be a nightmare. You have been warned. ::)
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on May 13, 2011, 10:26:11 PM
Hello,
Times are changing and weather's trying to drive us crazy...In France we have an abnormal spring with hot temperatures ( up to 30°C on my balconies ), full sun, wind, ...but no rain since the beginning of April! Most spring flowers bloomed and quickly faded away. We really feel we are in July...Of course- and unfortunately- my tropaeolum didn't like it and despite a hopeful winter growing season most of them failed to bloom and went withering...I have to find how to cope with this next year. Fortunately the tubers are safe!
Here's one which had the time to bloom: Tr AUSTROPURPUREUM ( as it has now to be named )
I would be interested in knowing about the results of the tropaeolum growers of this forum
Best wishes
J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Regelian on May 14, 2011, 07:00:12 AM
Jean-Patrick,
I have started seedlings of Tr. beuthii, Tr. smithii, SRGC hybrid seed, Tr. sessilifolium and Tr. azureum, all this Spring.  All but the Tr. beuthii and Tr. azureum have sprouted, did well in the cool and them almost wilted off during the heatwave.  I placed them under some sprouting Hemerocalls on the rockery wall and watered well.  They have recovered, but I don't know if there will be bloom or not.  We are currently enjoying a cool spell, but it may be too late. On my balcony they would have fried in the heat.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: west wind on May 14, 2011, 03:42:01 PM
Jean- Patrick,
Your Trop is just gorgeous!!
My Tropaeolum season is coming to an end.
Today I dag up  the tropaeolum tubers other than Tr.sessilifolium ,Tr.pentaphyllum and Tr.leptophyllum,which are just about to bloom.

This season they are better than before ,thanks to the favourable climate perhaps.

The seeds of Tr.moritzianum you had generouly sent me germinated perfectly !!
Now they are blooming for the second time.
I do appriciate your sharing  excellent seeds.

Other Tropaeolum species I grew this seasons are:
Tr.azureum
Tr.brachyceras
Tr.cilliatum(yet to bloom)
Tr.hokkerianum hokkerianum
Tr.x lepidum
Tr.pentaphyllum
Tr.polyphyllum(yet to bloom)
Tr.smithii
Tr.tenuiostre
Tr.tricolor
Tr.tuberosum(just germinated)

Some images of my Trops this season are shown below.

Tazuko

Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jozef Lemmens on May 14, 2011, 07:30:16 PM
Jean-Patrick, I have the same troubles. Most of my plants faded away too quickly. They flowered very poor.
After all, I have more and more troubles to keep my plants healthy.
R. Clifton (Geraniaceae Group) wrote me that my plants may suffer from fungal attacks.
I kept Tropaeolum sessilifolium in a sand bed last winter.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on May 14, 2011, 09:58:20 PM
Wow Tazuko!!! extraordinary pictures...Especially the Tr Hookerianum!!! This shows how well your plants are grown. Congratulations! And I think one reason would be to grow the tubers in BIG pots. Which -unfortunately- I'm not able to do on a balcony...Hundreds of flowers on such a plant, I bet this is quite unusual.
I've sown a few Tr Hookerianum seeds but they didn't produce such a display... and failed to produce a tuber...If you gather enough seeds on your plant would you save a few for me?
I have another query about Tr Leptophyllum. What's the origin of your plant? Chile flora?
Best wishes
J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jupiter on May 15, 2011, 12:50:05 AM

The photos above are absolutely stunning and inspiring! Tazuko, your smithii is outstanding and that azureum is dripping with flowers. Here in Australia it is almost winter and I'm germinating Trops at the moment. I have good germination already on my peregrinum, one germination so far on azureum seed which I collected myself in 08. I'm sewing all the seed from 09 and earlier because it's probably reaching the limit of its viability. I'm very anxious to see if I get germination of my smithii seed. Last season none germinated at all. :(

I have an absolute glut of tricolor tubers, so many I considered throwing some away in fact. I more than happy to trade them with members for seed of species I'm seeking.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: west wind on May 15, 2011, 02:50:44 PM
Jean-Patrick

The tr.hookerianum was grown from some tubers,that's why they bloomed so well,I think.
I'm willing to keep their seeds for you when they 're ripe.

 Last season I bought tr. leptophyllum seeds  from Chile Flora,but they were wrong ones.
Tr. leptophyllum of this season come from  the Seed EX of North American Rock Garden Society.
Two of the four seeds  germinated and are growing now.

Jupiter,

Thank you for your compliments.
My smithii of this season are grown from the seeds sowed Feb.2010.
Best wish for your success.

Tazuko
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on May 15, 2011, 09:52:31 PM
Tazuko,
Your Tr TRICOLOR is really a marvel!!! And you grow your plants in very ingenious pot with incorporated wire for them to twine through...
And the Tr X LEPIDUM is a real kaleidoscope!!!
I have another species which bloomed early enough but quickly wilted with the hot weather. Despite hand pollination, no seed produced.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on May 15, 2011, 10:25:59 PM
Hi Jupiter,
Tr SMITHII seems to be a little tricky to germinate. Successful growers might have had germination indoors but it never happened for me. The only seeds of this species which germinated were sown outdoors ( either protected or not from the cold ). I would advise you to try both methods.
Good luck!
J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jupiter on May 16, 2011, 01:55:06 AM
Thanks J-P, I have 2 treatments for smithii this year; one lot of seed were stratafied in the refrigerator for a month prior to sowing, the other lot sowed directly. Time will tell.

Lesley, your ciliatum is absolutely stunning - regardless of your harsh criticisms of the plant, I'd love to have one like that in my garden!
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 16, 2011, 10:20:42 PM
Certainly it's very nice in a swag, it's just all the outliers that go into everything else that are a real nuisance. Perhaps I'm more than ordinarily prejudiced against it as I bought it dormant and so sight unseen, a number of years ago, as T. azureum!
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jupiter on May 17, 2011, 07:14:08 AM
Well that goes some way towards explaining it... T. azureum it certainly is not.

I've got a gazebo I'm envisaging it climbing over...
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on May 28, 2011, 10:14:43 PM
Here's one tropaeolum hybrid grown from seed this year. The flowers were quite big and the most interesting was that each one remained open for more than 3 weeks!! This is very unusual.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 29, 2011, 02:11:28 AM
The long time each flower was open suggests it will be infertile, do you think?
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Regelian on May 29, 2011, 10:05:35 AM
The long time each flower was open suggests it will be infertile, do you think?

Lesley,

I was thinking the same.  The plus and minus sides of fertility/infertility.  Could, also, be that there is no other compatible pollen available and it is self-infertile, but I'm not sure this happens in Tropaeolum.  In any case, Jean-Patrick, a beautiful and worthy flower. I ghope it proves winterhardy.  I'm trying my T. sessilifolium outside, as they should handle -15°C in Chile, and we are literally never that cold for more than a night  or two every 5 years.  As I planted the seedlings out this week, they had good-sized tubers already.  I feel like I'm finally having some success with this very special genus.

Jamie
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on May 29, 2011, 10:30:29 PM
The long time each flower was open suggests it will be infertile, do you think?

Lesley,
I think you're right for I haven't been able to hand pollinate the flowers: no pollen available. This also happens on some flowers of other species. For instance on Tr SMITHII sometimes there are flowers with pollen and sometimes not ( on the same plant ).

J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 02, 2011, 09:09:35 PM
This is about Tr RHOMBOIDEUM but can be extended to other species. I've been given a few seeds of this species. Only one germinated and bloomed. The result was not what I expected. This seems to be a hybrid between Tr RHOMBOIDEUM and ( probably ) Tr BEUTHII. When pollinators are doing their job you can't be sure of what you get ( unless you hand pollinate the flowers )...and the plant produced no tuber nor any seed...so...goodbye!
J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jozef Lemmens on June 03, 2011, 08:44:18 PM
Tropaeolum polyphyllum is rather easy in my garden.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on June 03, 2011, 10:04:19 PM
We've never got it to establish here, though there are gardens not half a mile away where it thrives..... it may be easy for you Jef, but it is still very beautiful!
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jupiter on June 04, 2011, 09:10:51 AM

Jozef, thanks for posting those pictures. WOW! I've tried twice to germinate polyphyllum without success. I've got some more seed so might give it one more shot before I give up. I'd be satisfied with just a single small plant let alone the cascade of marvelousness you've got happening there. Congratulations.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Graham Catlow on June 04, 2011, 10:31:57 AM
The first time I saw T. polyphyllum at RBGE I thought it was amazing and Jozef yours has reawakened my interest. I have seen it a few times now and have always been astounded by it. Although some suggest it can be invasive and may travel to places you might not want it, and that it roots very deeply. What are others experiences? I would really like to give it a go.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: mark smyth on June 04, 2011, 10:45:32 AM
I cant grow it either yet it's a week in Bob Gordons garden. Maybe I'll ask for some to try again

Is it too late to sow canary creeper Tropaeolum peregrinum ? I would like one or two to go up a birch tree in my garden
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Susan Band on June 04, 2011, 04:28:11 PM
Graham, Think carefully about where to plant it. I made the mistake of planting it in one of my frames and it has now taken over 2 of them moving under the path and concrete blocks. I now grow it in pallet boxes with the idea that I will drop the side to remove the roots for selling. I does make a great show and dies down quickly after flowering so if you plant it amongst things that have finished flowering at this time and can cope with a month or so of smothering it should be okay.
Susan
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 04, 2011, 10:33:18 PM
Hi Jozef,
Extraordinary festoons of flowers, leaves and flower buds! A marvellous diplay indeed... How old is ( are ) your plant ( s )? Where did you settle it ( them )? in a rockery?
J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 04, 2011, 11:31:13 PM
Incredible display Jozef. Will you care if it takes over the garden - or the earth?

It grows OK for me (originally from Archibald seed) but has never had a single bloom. My mother was given it years ago by a local gardener and hers flowered (not so well as that) once the tubers had reached the bottom of the wooden barrel in which she planted them but my tubers don't go down. I can lift them any time I like, just below the surface and when I planted some really deep in a concrete tub, I never saw them again. So.......?
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Graham Catlow on June 06, 2011, 06:59:09 AM
Graham, Think carefully about where to plant it. I made the mistake of planting it in one of my frames and it has now taken over 2 of them moving under the path and concrete blocks. I now grow it in pallet boxes with the idea that I will drop the side to remove the roots for selling. I does make a great show and dies down quickly after flowering so if you plant it amongst things that have finished flowering at this time and can cope with a month or so of smothering it should be okay.
Susan

Susan, thanks for the information. The deep roots aren't a problem it's the running everywhere that might prove difficult. I will have to continue to think about it.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 10, 2011, 09:54:41 PM
Only a few flowers but how marvellous...
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: meanie on June 11, 2011, 05:18:54 AM
Mark - in my experience it is too late for the Canary Creeper. Bit of a pain as I found some seeds that I forgot to plant......

I grew it last year with the best results I've ever had - it didn't do well at my old house. But it was taken out in two days by the flea beetles in the second photo (which touched nothing else in the garden).

My Grampy used to grow Tropaeolums with his broad beans as a sacrificial offering!

Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 11, 2011, 11:53:06 PM
Those look really horrid Meanie, and I've not seen anything like them here. Is there a remedy? Maybe a systemic insecticide BEFORE the act?
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: meanie on June 12, 2011, 10:38:30 AM
Those look really horrid Meanie, and I've not seen anything like them here. Is there a remedy? Maybe a systemic insecticide BEFORE the act?

It was my first encounter with them too! The whole plant (2m by 2m) was engulfed, yet the Eccromocarpus scaber which it was growing into was untouched. They finished this off and left. Many remedies, neem oil being the most oft talked about, along with trap planting - it would seem that my Canary creeper was the ideal trap plant!
Late season eggs will lay dormant in the soil over the winter, maybe not hatching until early summer. The larvae then feed on the plants roots, so a double whammy all round.
After reading up on it (this is the page that I chose to bookmark     http://www.getridofthings.com/get-rid-of-flea-beetles.htm    ) I discovered that the allotments a quarter of a mile away had suffered plague like infestations.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 12, 2011, 10:32:28 PM
I cant grow it either yet it's a week in Bob Gordons garden. Maybe I'll ask for some to try again

Is it too late to sow canary creeper Tropaeolum peregrinum ? I would like one or two to go up a birch tree in my garden

Hi Mark,
I do not  totally agree with Meanie. Of course Tr PEREGRINUM is better sown in spring but it can germinate and grow even if sown later: I think the dead end for sowing would be the last days of June. This is a quick grower and if well exposed can flower circa September / October. You'll have less flowers if winter comes early but it is worth trying.

J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: meanie on June 13, 2011, 07:48:46 AM
My answer was more along the lines of effort versus reward really.
However, one thought does occur to me - could Mark and myself grow this on this year in a pot so as to keep the tuber for next year?
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 13, 2011, 05:58:57 PM
Meanie,
Tr PEREGRINUM is an annual and -to my knowledge-produces no tuber. I haven't tried cuttings for over wintering and maybe the plant could be kept frost free in a glasshouse just like Tr MAJUS ( but usually cuttings or re-sowing new seeds are the 2 alternatives for the latter ). I haven't tried so can't say anything about this.

J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: meanie on June 14, 2011, 07:47:56 AM
J-P
I too have only ever grown these and have less knowledge than you, so thanks for your response. I may sow late in the season and keep as a small plant under glass for the winter just to see if this offers a worthwhile head start or not.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on June 22, 2011, 09:58:38 PM
Hello,
Things are evolving little by little at Lyon's BG. Here's a pic of tropaeolum POLYPHYLLUM planted last summer in the alpine garden. This is the first year for it and we can't rival with Jozef's extraordinary display.
Many thanks to Rosemary WILSON ( UK ) who kindly provided the ( big ) tuber.
J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: fleurbleue on June 22, 2011, 10:38:57 PM
Well done Jean Patrick  :D
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 07, 2011, 09:19:53 PM
This is Tropaeolum INCISUM the 2nd Andean species planted in the alpine garden at LYON's BG. It also flowered there for the first time.
Many different colour forms are described for this species ( white, red, salmon, yellow, and bicolours ).
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: PeterT on July 07, 2011, 09:39:18 PM
Do populations of T incisum have mixed colours, or all one colour?
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 07, 2011, 10:53:17 PM
This one flowers for me (a sort of buff-apricot colour) but T. polyphyllum never has. Both raised from the same Watson seed, maybe 1988 or thereabouts.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Regelian on July 08, 2011, 06:56:28 PM
Well, I'm chuffed.  I finally managed to raise a Tropaeolum from seed and get it to bloom.  A shot of my T. smithii, which I now have in the rockery.
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: PeterT on July 08, 2011, 09:26:24 PM
Congratulations Jaime
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 11, 2011, 10:10:06 PM
Hi Everybody,
John & Anita WATSON have written an in-depth article about Tropaeolum section Chilensia ( tuberous species ). It has been published in HERBERTIA, journal of the international bulb society.
The references:
HERBERTIA volume 64 ( 2010 )
ISSN 1559-8772

I've also found the details of the international bulb society ( USA ):
P.O. Box 336
Sanger
CA 93657
USA
http://www.bulbsociety.org. 

This is a far more complete study than the one they published in the CURTIS's Botanical Magazine. I think many Botanic gardens may receive the HERBERTIA publication ( LYON's BG got it ). So it could be browsed through by any enthusiast before ordering. This is really a MUST have. The NEW definite bible on the genus!!!

J-P
Title: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jupiter on July 13, 2011, 12:42:52 PM

Thank you very much for this info J-P. I'm trying to track down a copy now. Not having much luck! Let me know if you know how to buy volume 64.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on July 15, 2011, 05:37:41 PM
Hi,
Has anybody had germination with Tr ARGENTINUM this year? I'm still waiting...despite many seeds sown at different times of year and in various conditions.
Thanks for posting any results ( successes and failures ) and the sowing conditions ( and delay ) for germination.
Many thanks in advance.
J-P
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jupiter on August 12, 2011, 01:10:46 AM

I have a question regarding fertilising (applying nutrients to) Tropaeolum.

Remembering I'm in the Southern Hemisphere; I have started some T. azureum from seed again this year and they are growing nicely, already producing flower buds, although the plants are quite small. I would like to do all I can to encourage the developing tubers to a size that will sustain the plants through dormancy - problematic for me here in this climate. Do you think a little half strength soluble fertiliser, such as Nitrosol or Aquasol would hurt or help?

Any tips greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on November 20, 2011, 08:42:38 PM
At last!!!
Pictures of Tr TUBEROSUM ssp Ken Aslet grown at LYON's BG. The plant is quite "humble" but was grown in a pot. A few flowers only but I bet next year's blooming will be more generous...
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on November 27, 2011, 10:26:46 PM
Tr ARGENTINUM: only one seedling this year although a lot of seeds of various origins have been sown. Many different exposures, composts...This species seems very tricky to germinate and if we are unable to grow new plants reliably it might disappear from cultivation!
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on December 04, 2011, 09:44:42 PM
Another pic of Tr PELTOPHORUM grown at home. It flowers ( for me ) in Autumn. I've cross-pollinated the flowers with Tr PEREGRINUM. Some seeds maturing. Some interesting surprise next year?
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on December 04, 2011, 10:48:26 PM
Another pic of Tr PELTOPHORUM grown at home. It flowers ( for me ) in Autumn. I've cross-pollinated the flowers with Tr PEREGRINUM. Some seeds maturing. Some interesting surprise next year?

We'll be interested to see what the cross produces, J-P.
Title: Re: Tropaeolum 2011
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on December 28, 2011, 09:18:53 PM
Tropaeolum PEREGRINUM at LYON's BG. The plant grew late in the season but thanks to the mild 2011 autumn is still flowering now...
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