Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Hans J on May 18, 2011, 01:15:55 PM
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...some of our members will be surprised that anybody from the nothern hemishere opens now in May a topic for Massonia ...but that here are my first summergrowing Massonia ( seedlings - 2 years old ) :D
The first is Massonia wittebergensis - a new descriptet species - please read on PBS :
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Massonia
The other is ( so far I know ) until now undescriptet - I found only on a website a name :
Massonia jasminiflora ssp. aestivalis n.n.
I hope my seedlings will flower in next year ...and than I will show it again with flowers
Enjoy
Hans
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Hans looking forward to see it flower next year, as it's been said in other threads you are a lucky man. :D
Angie :)
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They look good Hans, the pictures of Massonia wittebergensis are most interesting, if a little weird ;D
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Thank you Angie and Brian ;D
Yes ..I think too those both Massonia looks very strange ....I was thinking if I post this pics first in "Puzzles" ....but I think this would be too difficould ;)
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I was thinking if I post this pics first in "Puzzles" ....but I think this would be too difficould ;)
That would have been really mean Hans. What a good idea ;D
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::) ::) ::)
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Brian may like being made to work so hard on a puzzle, Hans, but I am pleased you simply showed us the pictures here.... it would have been too much work for my brain!
Very strange little leaves indeed. Always learning something here!
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Maggi ,
sorry for late answer ..but you know I have to watch the "Giro"
I'm glad that you are satisfied with me :D
Ciao
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Maggi ,
sorry for late answer ..but you know I have to watch the "Giro"
I'm glad that you are satisfied with me :D
Ciao
Always satisfied with you, Hans ;) ;D ;D
I just found your message... because, of ,I was watching the Giro, also! 8)
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8) 8) 8)
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M Jasminea is evergreen for me, untill now I have kept it indoors but it goes floppy and needs more light :(, It has not flowerd in six years >:(
I think I shall put it out for the summer :D
M wittbergensis has just germinated but Hans's plants look much better than mine :-\
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Now after some weeks with fog we have today a little sun ;D
so it is possibly to take some pics from my Massonia in this time ...some Massonia are ready with flowering ( like M.pygmea and others )
Massonia spec. Burdoch pink clone ( thanks a nice person )
Massonia spec. Burdoch
Massonia pustulata pale leaf ( thanks a other friend )
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here first flowers from Massonia jasminiflora from a nice person from Aussieland ;D ( sown 2008 ) - they need urgent repotting !!!
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here Massonia bifolia ( earlier called Whiteheadia bifolia )
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Waouh ! They are so cute :D
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Many thanks Nicole ;D
more will come in next weeks :o
Hans 8)
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Hans
Yes they are so cute. On I need some sun to help mine flower. Hans I like seeing your M.Jasminflora with a few in the pot. When you are finished with the sun can you post it over here please.
Looking forward to see more
Angie :)
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Thank you Angie :D
OK with the sun ....
Hans 8)
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Hans,
Be careful with the Massonia jasminiflora when repotting....... I repotted the parents this year and I only one of them came up, and a small leaf at that. They did NOT like the disturbance. I think that none of them may have survived. Not entirely sure what I did wrong, but thought I would mention it just to make sure. Did you get any variation in the flower colour of the seedlings? I'd hoped you'd get some with the pink or mauve shadings, but it looks like they may all be white?
The Massonia wittebergensis leaf from back in May is really unusual. It almost looks like some sort of wierd succullent. :o Will be interesting to see what it looks like when it matures and flowers. I would imagine VERY cool. 8)
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The Massonia wittebergensis leaf from back in May is really unusual. It almost looks like some sort of wierd succullent. :o Will be interesting to see what it looks like when it matures and flowers. I would imagine VERY cool. 8)
Paul that sounds something worth waiting to see. I lost one of my Massonia ( sorry Darren ) not sure what went wrong, the bulb just went hard and white. I will be watching them more carefully once they lose their leaves. To precious to lose.
Angie :)
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Paul ,
I had no problem with repotting M.jasminiflora ...they are one time repottet - I now I have pots with always 5 plants inside - I must they make next year in single pot .
I can not say so much about the variation of flowers because in this time are only 2 plants flowering.
Please look on the PBS site for pics of M.wittebergensis - it is very interesting
In last years a lot of new and fascinating Massonia species comes up - very interesting stuff !!!
Hans
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Angie ,
after my expierience with Massonia is one of the biggest problem with watering - this plants can easy rot when they are wet ( special in flowering time )
I'm very careful -and I try water to make only on the substrat and not on the plant - in case the leaves are wet so I remove it ( with a kitchen paper ).
Hans
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here first flowers from Massonia jasminiflora from a nice person from Aussieland ( sown 2008 ) - they need urgent repotting !!!
Interesting.
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Hans
I hate losing plants especially those from good friends so I will try and watch more carefully.
Today I can see the sun coming above my trees, plants in greenhouse will be happy, maybe shall get some Massonia to flower. It is very mild here for this time of year.
Angie :)
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Angie ,
I have just taken few pics ( sorry for the quality but the sun is in Scotland )
With such a bottle ( easy to get in a Apotheke ) is it simply to water Massonia - also very useful for seedlings
Happy growing
Hans
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Hans, no sun it decided to go back behind the clouds :'(
Good idea that bottle. I can see why you need it, you have a thousand Massonia there :o :D
Cant wait till my collection grows.
Away to my greenhouse to speak to my plants and ask them to multiply ;)
Angie :)
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Your Massonia look great Hans! :)
At our group meeting last night several people approached me about Massonia as they know I grow them. Obviously they are becoming quite popular now! I could have taken some in flower to the meeting but I didn't especially feel like going to the greenhouse by torchlight to get them and try to clean them up. Maybe I'm just lazy.
A couple of mine are sited directly under a leak in the greenhouse roof and often get wet. But - they are in plunged clay pots and dry out quickly, and like Hans I remove any pools of water from the leaves with tissue paper. The crucial thing in our climate is to remove the flowers the moment they finish otherwise the anthers get mouldy and it spreads to the leaves where they touch.
Angie - don't feel bad about the plant you lost. It happens!
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I am relieved to see that Hans' seedlings look just like mine growing from last year's seedex seed.
I was beginning to worry that I had received the wrong seed, but it seems that the leaves only begin to flatten out after a year or two. Is this right?
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Darren i had noticed that the flowers have gone mouldy I cut the anthers off so its nice to hear that the expert does this.
I hope to keep the other Massonia bulbs going, hate losing special plants.
Angie :)
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Hi Angie ,
thank you for sending me the sun back ....we can use it very well :)
Hans
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Hi Darren ,
thank you for your friendly words :D
It seems we had both the same idea with the kitchen paper and yes - like you I remove the old flowers
Happy growing
Hans
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I am relieved to see that Hans' seedlings look just like mine growing from last year's seedex seed.
I was beginning to worry that I had received the wrong seed, but it seems that the leaves only begin to flatten out after a year or two. Is this right?
Richard ,
yes the seedlings looks different from the mature plants .
I have looked today in my collection : in first year have some species of Massonia really long leaves ( p.e. depressa ) but pustulata + jasminiflora have more rounded leaves - in second year are the leaves stronger and bigger , in third year they looks similar like adult plants .I had first flowers on Mass. pygmea after 3 years - all other ( mostly ) after 4 years
Good succsess
Hans
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Hi Angie ,
thank you for sending me the sun back ....we can use it very well :)
Hans
Hans, don't keep that sun for too long, remember this forum is all about sharing ::) ;)
Angie :)
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Ii have to ask the question. I have a number of Massonia growing and admittedly not being at all familiar with the habitat where it is found I would make the following observations.
The leaf structure looks perfectly adapted to collecting rain water or dew to provide moisture for growth. My plants have a small amount of water sitting in the area where the flower bud is emerging. I haven't seen any signs of rot or fungus present.
I do keep a fan on at all times to provide air circulation.
Am I just being lucky or is this plant morphology there to collect moisture?
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Perhaps as seedlings, Arnold. Adult plants with the bulbs deeply buried in the mix/soil have perfectly flat ground hugging foliage.
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Juno Iris collect water in their leaves, sometimes with disastrous consequences, yet if the conditions are right it doesn't seem to matter!
My Massonias seem to enjoy being wetted but I certainly don't have the degree of experiance which Hans or Darren have. Even with the flat leaves there is a depression around the flower which draws water to the flower stem as Arnold suggests. Perhaps in natural conditions there would be less precipitation at flowering time, - and therefor less risk of flowers getting soggy and rotting?
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I was told today that many Massonia do have flat leaves and grow in pebbly conditions, the leaves spread flat on the ground in the heat and, if you were to put your hand underneath them you would find it cool and damp. Another way of collecting available moisture. ;)
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A couple of pictures taken today to show leaf aberrations. Last year the plants each produced two flat leaves.
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Two from me, Massonia pustulata, I like this picture as it shows the texture of the leaf well, and Massonia echinata. When M.echinata came into flower the leaf was as flat as a pancake. Now it seems to be assuming a more cupped form, this it did last year too.
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Brian:
Maybe 'funneling' the pollinator towards the prize?
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Good thinking Arnold. I wouldn't be at all surprised :D
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Lovely picture Brian 8) Its maybe trying to keep itself warm.
Angie :)
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Brian - I have a form of echinata that does this too, I suspect it is a response to lowering light levels as autumn progresses. Thankfully mine is one of the few that offsets and it actually looks fine in a clump. It is one of my only two exceptions to growing massonia one bulb per pot.
Due to my not thoroughly wetting the whole pot this year when I first watered, one side started growing before the other so the display was uneven.
Forgive me for posting again a pic from last year:
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Darren we would never get fed up seeing that pot of Massonia 8)
Angie :)
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That is amazing Darren, I hope mine clumps up like that :D
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Darren - What can I say? I was happy with my lot until I saw that photo, simply staggering. Thanks for showing it.
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Arnold, instead, funnelling the excessive watering for a massonia.
Biran, they collect night dews on the furrows and warts.
Peter, the depression around the flower bud can be a deadly trap under soggy/foggy conditions.
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That clump of echinata has never been split in 7 years, just moved to bigger pots. Unfortunately it shows some signs of tiredness this year and I'm going to have to be brave and do a full split & repot next summer. Trouble is it seems to have living roots pretty much all year round, no matter how dry it gets. It may end in tears!
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I have one like this Darren, it likes more moisture and is evergreen, offsetts a lot. Repotting is no problem and I grow it in leafmould and grit. I grew it from Silverhill seed in 2007 as Massonia jasminiflora
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Brian, they collect night dews on the furrows and warts.
I am not sure how this would help them Alberto when the leaves are so flat?
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Brian, plants can absorb moisture through the leaves.
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Of course they can - stupid me :P
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As today the sun was shining after more than two weeks of terrible fog, I took some pictures of my Massonia collection...
The first one is an unidentified species, its always the first in flower. This picture is about 3 weeks old.
Then pustulata and different forms of jasminiflora from the Eastern Cape.
best regards,
massonia
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Massonia pustulata
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Waouh ! They seem all in great form and so nice :D
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I have some Massonia pustulata from Jim Archibald's seed sown 2008. One plant had a bud at the beginning of October but it doesn't seem to have developed any further. Any suggestions as to why this is? ???
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Menai:
If the bulb is immature the flower can abort.
The flower pictured took a year to settle in before flowering.
I grow at 45F plunged in a gravel/sand mixture.
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Between two rain showers some pics :
Massonia pustulata ( sown in year 1998 ) - a very nice form with dark pattern
Massonia plain leaf ( ex Loerisfontain )...I hope they will flower in next year
Massonia spec. Stutterheim - I'm shure this is a M.jasminiflora
Hans
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I think I have to wait at lest one more year
for your seedlings flower
Nice collection
Roland
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Brillant Hans 8) 8) 8)
Angie :)
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Thank you Angie :D
what makes your Mass. pustulata GK ?
Hans
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Hans - I agree with your diagnosis of the last one as jasminiflora - and a nice plant too!
Curiously it looks exactly like the results of my crossing a pustulate-leaved jasminiflora with 'Burdach 11182'!
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Hi Hans
Sorry for my ignorance Hans but not sure what you meant by GK. Ok everyone stop laughing you all probably know what Hans means ::) ;D
Was going to out today to take a couple of pictures of my massonia flowering today but the paths are like a skating ring and I have a sore back so that would be when I probably would fall on my bum :o Oh to be twenty again ;)
Angie :)
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Angie
I will send you a PM
Hans
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new pics ( with some sunshine ) :
Massonia echinata ex Bredasdorp ( sown in 2008 )
Massonia echinata ex Bredasdorp CU
Massonia echinata ex African Bulbs ( sown 2007 )
Enjoy
Hans 8)
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What do the underground parts of Massonia, Haemanthus and so on look like?
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Maggi ;D ;D ;D
this is the only place in my garden where I can put the pots and have a little sunshine ....thats all !
Hans 8)
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Here Massonia makes little White " Ornithogalum" like bulbs
Haemanthus looks more like scales
one left one right one left and so on
overlapping each other
If you want I make a picture
What do you mean by "and so on"
Roland
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Maggi ;D ;D ;D
this is the only place in my garden where I can put the pots and have a little sunshine ....thats all !
Hans 8)
Hans, I meant that we never see what the plants look like underground.... I don't grow them so I wonder how 'bulb-like' they are ? ???
Roland, yes, a picture would be good!#
By the "and so on" I was trying to think of other plants of this type that might have similar "bulb" structures
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I will make a few pictures
It takes a few minutes
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No hurry, Roland! Thank you! :-*
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Maggi - I dont understand 100 % what you mean ...
In each pot are 5 bulbs ...thats to much ( it is not possibly to see the pot more or less )
I use simply black pots ( 9 x 9 )
Maybe you write me better in german a PM ....so I can give you a better answer !
Hans
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Maggi - I dont understand 100 % what you mean ...
In each pot are 5 bulbs ...thats to much ( it is not possibly to see the pot more or less )
I use simply black pots ( 9 x 9 )
Maybe you write me better in german a PM ....so I can give you a better answer !
Hans
I know what a narcissus bulb looks like; and a galanthus bulb, and a hippeastrum but I don't know what the massonia looks like .... I was asking what the bulbs look like for these plants. I never saw them before!
That's too hard for me to manage in German!! ;D ;D ;D
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Hans:
Maggi is asking what the bulbs look like.
Are they corms, tubers, rhizomes.....
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Exactly, Arnold....thank you! why didn't I think to ask that! :-[ :-[
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I hope this gives you an idea
Roland
Massonia echinata plus bulb
Massonia pustulata plus bulb
Haemanthus humilis ssp. hirsutus Piet Retief bulb
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Thank you Arnold ...thats easy :D
Maggi - thats small white bulbs a little bit underground ...if you see it you would never believe which small bulbs are this
I'm a little shoked ....in your home lives the "Ian the Bulb despot" ...he has to know how all bulb look ::)
I will look if I find a pic of a bulb ...
Hans
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Here are some Massonia depressa ( sown from Silverhill )
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We don't grow any of these so I am very interested to see the bulbs. Strange little bulbs, heh?
So much foliage from that little bulb. :o
Apologise to your plant for me, Roland... tell it I am sorry for causing it to be disturbed! ;D ;)
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...maybe Ian should start a little collection - they are easy !
Hans :D
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I just took of the top-layer potting-mixture
It doesn't harm the plants
as long as you don't break the roots
By the time you have nothing to do ;D
we can make a database with all different dry bulbs
There is an enormous amount of knowledge on this forum
Probably this can be the best bulb picture database of the world
before you start thinking
maybe better to drink a little glass of wine ;)
Roland
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Maggi the bulbs are so tiny, the first one I got I put in a tiny pot, soon I relised that this tiny bulb needed a bigger pot. They are fun to grow. Just wish they grew in our summer time and could enjoy them more.
Hans love those groups of Massonia 8), can't wait till I can bulk up my collection.
Angie :)
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I only have M. depressa as a mature bulb, a couple of others as seedlings but the bulb of depressa is just about exactly like the bulb of what I has as Albuca sp. Basutoland but I believe is A. humilis or possibly A. cooperi, like a little inverted snowdrop, white and green with yellow pollen and an almond icing scent. I'm sure you know it Maggi. The bulb (of both) seems large for the size of the top growth.
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They are fun to grow. Just wish they grew in our summer time and could enjoy them more.
Angie, I couldn't agree more. Mine have now completed flowering or have stalled. It would have been good to got them to a show so that other folk could sit in awe and admiration!
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They are fun to grow. Just wish they grew in our summer time and could enjoy them more.
Angie, I couldn't agree more. Mine have now completed flowering or have stalled. It would have been good to got them to a show so that other folk could sit in awe and admiration!
Fingers crossed we will get a better display next year, just hope this doesn't damage the bulbs. We are lucky we can admire our forum members Massonia :)
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They are fun to grow. Just wish they grew in our summer time and could enjoy them more.
Angie, I couldn't agree more. Mine have now completed flowering or have stalled. It would have been good to got them to a show so that other folk could sit in awe and admiration!
M. pygmaea usually flowers early enough for the autumn shows (I took several to Ponteland this October). Also - some species are very attractive in fruit and I have taken M. pustulata in fruit to enter in foliage classes at the Blackpool show in March.
I liked Roland's pictures of the bulbs. I think one reason you rarely see Massonia bulbs is that in my experience they are hardly ever completely dormant - they seem to start root growth before the previous year's roots have died off and I am quite reluctant to disturb them much. If I send bulbs to friends then the timing is critical - immediately after the leaves die off is best, before the new roots get going.
It is surprising how small the bulbs are. My biggest Massonia is a big form of M. depressa with leaves 20cm long (i.e. 40cm across the leaf-pair). The bulb is only about the size of a walnut.
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Interesting stuff on the small size of the bulbs .... and the very small window of dormancy.
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Whilst out for lunch with some girlfriends today we were chatting about what we would like for Christmas. I sat and listened, Emerald ring was one, another was Jimmy Choo shoes, Diamond earring's at least a carat. Well you should have seen their face when I said a pot full of Massonia bulbs in bloom like Darren has. What a laugh we had. Then they went on to ask me who this Darren was. I told them he was a happily married man that had a lovely blonde thin wife called Susan and he grew these lovely plants that I love. They will all be asking me what I got for my Christmas. I think they thought that I wasn't serious ;D little do they know that these little bulbs are harder to get than diamonds :o
Angie :)
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I'm not clear on the comments regarding dormancy for the Massonia.
All the bulbs I have were received dormant and stayed that way for weeks until temps dropped and they came into growth.
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The same here Arnold
Mine where dormant for almost 2 months
Roland
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Maggi, the bulbs look so small in the photo because most of its substance is deployed in leaves and flowers. When the season is over the bulb will fatten considerably as all substance returns to it. Massonias have small bulbs but they are not tiny. And they can grow a lot larger in old plants given plenty of room. Of course they still qualify as "dwarf bulbs".
Haemanthi have bulbs that look "applauded", that is compressed sideways. They are typical with very few scales and thick perennial roots.
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It is more or less possible to control the growth and dormant phase with watering. This summer I tried to water a pot of jasminiflora plants and ignore their natural period of dormancy. What happened? The plant did not go dormant, it was producing new shoots and even flowers in summer. Even now it is still green....
But normally these plants have a strict resting phase during summer.
greetings,
massonia
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Learning lots, thanks Folks!
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My Massonia echinata looks rather different to others shown earlier. ? mis-identified.
This is the first flowering from AGS seed sown 2008.
Pete.
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Massonia pustulata.
T.
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Here's Massonia echinata.
Illustrating the crowded pot syndrome.
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It is more or less possible to control the growth and dormant phase with watering. This summer I tried to water a pot of jasminiflora plants and ignore their natural period of dormancy. What happened? The plant did not go dormant, it was producing new shoots and even flowers in summer. Even now it is still green....
But normally these plants have a strict resting phase during summer.
greetings,
massonia
True. They all lose their leaves here when I withhold water in summer but vary a lot regarding their roots. Some species rest more than others. Here M.pustulata has live roots throughout summer unless really severely dried. I feel that this may simply be because my wet cool summers here in NW England trigger new root growth even if the compost is kept dry. In warmer-summer continental climes I'm sure the dormancy is stricter - just as in nature.
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Whilst out for lunch with some girlfriends today we were chatting about what we would like for Christmas. I sat and listened, Emerald ring was one, another was Jimmy Choo shoes, Diamond earring's at least a carat. Well you should have seen their face when I said a pot full of Massonia bulbs in bloom like Darren has. What a laugh we had. Then they went on to ask me who this Darren was. I told them he was a happily married man that had a lovely blonde thin wife called Susan and he grew these lovely plants that I love. They will all be asking me what I got for my Christmas. I think they thought that I wasn't serious ;D little do they know that these little bulbs are harder to get than diamonds :o
Angie :)
Flattery will get you anywhere Angie ;D
What I want for Christmas is a couple of extra days in the week - so long as I don't have to spend them at work.
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They are not only beautiful, they're also fragrant, and so nice perfume....
Massonia pustulata is flowering now, as well as M. echinata, just starting but also quite different from the 'standard'.. grown from seeds from SA, and may be misidentified ?
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Beauties Fred
Pic 2 is really fantastic
although the last isn't bad
By the time you have a few seeds available
I sign in
Roland
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I agree picture 2 is really nice but then again so is that pot full 8)
Angie :)
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Yes Anie
so overcrowded
but soooooo beautifull
Roland
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I can't wait till I get a pot that I can call overcrowded ;D
Angie :)
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I can send you seeds Angie
here till now bulbs don't divide :(
so I have to multiply them by seeds
Roland
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I also don't get offsets but I hope to get seeds this year.
If so I'll remember you Roland ;)
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Thanks Fred
I just ordered some unusual ones in south Africa
but that will take some years for they set seed
Roland
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Fred can I ask how long it took to get a pot as full as that. Just wandering if I have enough time left :-\
If you have a couple of spare seed that would be nice. I have seed from Hans J and Lesley growing. If I can grow them on I can share them. I better get them through this winter first. They are funny nothing like I expected.
Angie :)
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Angie,
it took 3 years, quite fast ;)
Remind me for seeds within 2/3 months,
Fred
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Angie,
it took 3 years, quite fast ;)
Wow that really surprises me 8)
Angie :)
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Folks, I've opened a new page for the new year....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8380.0