Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Gerdk on April 21, 2011, 08:20:08 AM

Title: Which poppy?
Post by: Gerdk on April 21, 2011, 08:20:08 AM: I would be glad if a had an identification of this cute Papaver species.
The seeds were collected near Zakros (E. Crete). It is an annual (here) and surprisingly it stayed compact (less than 15 cm) - even here in a better soil.

Gerd
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Armin on April 21, 2011, 09:48:42 AM: Hi Gerd,
I have 2 proposals who could fit...

1) Bastard-Mohn: Papaver hybridum (rare in Germany)
2) Sand-Mohn: Papaver argemone (mediterranean species)

I think the form of the seed capsules formed later will help to find out what it is.
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Gerdk on April 21, 2011, 05:40:01 PM: Thank you Armin! I'll try to cast an eye at the capsules.

Gerd
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Melvyn Jope on April 22, 2011, 05:09:16 PM: Hello Gerd and Armin,
I have just been looking at The Flowers of Crete by John Fielding, he has the following to say about the poppy which looks like yours.Papaver argenome, the prickly poppy, is represented in Crete by subsp. nigrotinctum (P. nigrotinctum). It is an uncommon,archaeophytic weed of cultivation known from only a few sites on the island. The petals are orange to red, with a black basal blotch, the anthers are blue, green or yellow, and the bristly capsules are at least twice as long as wide.
The caption to the photograph says...The dark base of the petals is a lovely contrast to the orange red colour; the almost blue anthers are attached to near black filaments.
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Armin on April 23, 2011, 03:38:51 PM: Melvyn,
thanks for the details of P.argenome subspecies info.
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Gerdk on April 23, 2011, 08:03:15 PM: Quote from: Armin on April 23, 2011, 03:38:51 PM
Melvyn,
thanks for the details of P.argenome subspecies info.

-- from me also. Thanks to both of you! Have to wait for next flowers and seed capsules which will appear hopefully soon.

Gerd
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Gerdk on May 22, 2011, 08:22:28 PM: Here are some recent pics of the Papaver from Crete.

The anthers are blue, the flower lacks a distinct black blotch.
Also the capsule doesn't seem twice as long as wide.

Melvyn, are these characteristics still fit for the subspecies?

Gerd
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Melvyn Jope on May 23, 2011, 08:11:40 PM: Hello Gerd,

It looks very like John's photo in the Flowers of Crete so I am pretty confident that it fits the subspecies however to be on the safe side I will email John and ask his opinion. He told me this morning that he is extremely busy so we may not get a quick answer.
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: fielding on May 24, 2011, 09:08:44 AM: Hi, Melvyn asked me about the Papaver from Crete and I have taken a look at the pictures. I am not an expert on this subject and still feel that I am guessing. The picture with the seed pod looks as if it is dead rather than mature! A clearly mature seed pod might make identification more certain.
John
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Gerdk on May 24, 2011, 10:26:04 AM: Melvyn & John,
Many thanks for your help. I'll show another seed pod when there will be
a ripe new one.

Gerd
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Gerdk on July 22, 2011, 08:34:50 PM: Quote from: fielding on May 24, 2011, 09:08:44 AM
Hi, Melvyn asked me about the Papaver from Crete and I have taken a look at the pictures. I am not an expert on this subject and still feel that I am guessing. The picture with the seed pod looks as if it is dead rather than mature! A clearly mature seed pod might make identification more certain.
John

Lastly here are some ripe capsules of the species accompanied by an additional pic of the whole plant from the beginning of June.

Gerd
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Lvandelft on July 22, 2011, 10:11:11 PM: Gerd, is it possibly Roemeria refracta and no Papaver??
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Lori S. on July 23, 2011, 12:30:24 AM: I am not familiar personally with Roemeria but I am led to think from Christopher Grey-Wilson's Poppies, that they have seed capsules that are very narrow and elongated (more along the lines of those of Eschscholtzia californica)... ? R. refracta is said to have seed capsules that are linear-cylindrical, to 10 cm long, and there is a photo showing flowers and seed capsules - not a match for the plant in question.
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Lvandelft on July 23, 2011, 08:25:32 AM: Quote from: Lori Skulski on July 23, 2011, 12:30:24 AM
I am not familiar personally with Roemeria
The same with me :)

Well, I was just trying and I tried more or less to draw off attention from only searching within the Genus Papaver.
And I saw a picture of seedpods which look very different from those in the “Poppy Book” :-\

http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&safe=off&rlz=1G1GGLQ_NLNL324&q=roemeria+refracta+seedpods&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1126&bih=584&wrapid=tlif131140526793410&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi
(http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&safe=off&rlz=1G1GGLQ_NLNL324&q=roemeria+refracta+seedpods&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1126&bih=584&wrapid=tlif131140526793410&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi)
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Lori S. on July 23, 2011, 07:03:10 PM: I'd venture that that photo was misidentified. Here's one that resembles the photo and line drawings in the Grey-Wilson book:
http://www.aksuinn.com/eng/gallery/poppy/roemeria-refracta-299
Title: Re: Which poppy?
Post by: Gerdk on July 24, 2011, 11:49:58 AM: Lori & Luit,
Thank you for your efforts - according leaves and capsules I tend to P. argemone (subspecies?) hoping that Melvyn and John Fielding would send a confirmation.

Gerd