Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Gerard Oud on March 08, 2011, 06:07:05 PM
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Edit by maggi: these post about Galanthus registration split off from March 2011 thread.....
(Nice one Melvyn! - referes back to Galanthus March 2011 thread)
Do you know that when you want to have it named and registrated officially, you have to send a good photo and a thorough discription (dimensions flower, leaves etc) to the Dutch KAVB. More info vanscheepen@kavb.nl
I have to pay 50 euro for each registration but for persons outside our BIG country its FREE!!!!!! Just had 2 new snowdrops registrated this week and had a discussion about this with drs Johan van Scheepen because this looks like discrimination!
I hope now all the Sharmens and Mackenzies and all others have theire snowdrops registrated here at the KAVB. For example i can have EA Bowles officialy registrated here with another name and then mr Sharmen will have to change the name of EA Bowles into another name. For a good order this can happen to all not officially registrated ones!
This has been agreed between the Dutch KAVB and the RHS.So why not registrate over here its FREE!!!!
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For example i can have EA Bowles registrated here with another name and then mr Sharmen will have to change the name of EA Bowles into another name.
The same as allegedly happened to Geranium Rozanne when it was realeased as Jolly Bee
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Then it has been rereleased.
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This has been agreed between the Dutch KAVB and the RHC.
I take it you mean RHS, Royal Horticultural Society?
I cannot help but think this is a bad move because it means anybody can register any one-off without the need to provide evidence of consistency or the fact that there is more than one in existence. I think a few photographs of different clumps taken over several years should be mandatory.
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ISHS of course Alan.
If you really want to have it worldwide officialy registrated the only place is the KAVB!
That has been agreed between those 2 organisations, for Narcis and some others bulbs there are other regulations.
For a good order again, i am not going to registrate someone elses snowdrops, but as you see on ebay there might be a clever person who can do certain things.
Just do with this what you want, but dont tell later i have not warned you!
Just a copple of good photos and some documentation/discription and registrate, its free and official!!!
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I have to say that if you want to registrate it doesn't mean that it gets registrated! It will be compared with other cultivars/ hybrids etc and if its different from others that are already registrated it will get official registration. I was trying to say that there are many "named" snowdrops that are officialy NOT registrated.
If its really important you can ask for breedersrights or royaltys but this does cost money!
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For information got to the website of the ISHS then got to taxonomy related. Then choose ICRA, search for ICRA by genus, G of Galanthus.
Lots of info on this site!
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The same as allegedly happened to Geranium Rozanne when it was realeased as Jolly Bee
Beyond comparison, wrong place!
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For information got to the website of the ISHS then got to taxonomy related. Then choose ICRA, search for ICRA by genus, G of Galanthus.
Lots of info on this site!
Although I tried to follow the instructions above, the best I could find was a list of bulb species here http://www.ishs.org/sci/icralist/49.htm . I could not find a list of registered Galanthus names, although I did find a publication showing recent registrations including Galanthus here http://www.kavb.nl/uploads/registraties%202010%20kl.pdf . If the KAVB want to be some sort of international plant registrar, they really need to put more effort into creating versions of their web site in languages other than Dutch.
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Although I tried to follow the instructions above, the best I could find was a list of bulb species here http://www.ishs.org/sci/icralist/49.htm .
On this URL you can find the list of bulbspecies that need to be registrated at the KAVB when new found, it shows a address and emailaddress.
Youre right Alan about the website from the KAVB it has a English button but this doesn't cover all, this should be improved!
I will report this to Johan van Scheepen, they cant keep complaining about registration, but have to work on the website too!
But as i mentioned earlier, just some good photos and a thorough discription and "name" send to the KAVB and its safe and official!!!!
Very easy and without any charge of money!
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Thank you Gerard, I´m on the way to KAVB.
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Youre right Alan about the website from the KAVB it has a English button but this doesn't cover all, this should be improved!
I will report this to Johan van Scheepen, they cant keep complaining about registration, but have to work on the website too!
Thanks Gerard. The lack of a full English language version of the web site makes it quite difficult for me and I imagine our German-speakers would appreciate a German version also. Could you please mention to Johan that the link on this page http://www.kavb.nl/index.cfm?act=esite.tonen&pagina=106 that is supposed to lead to "De database Geregistreerde cultivars" doesn't work, or it doesn't work for me.
I'm afraid the overall impression I have of KAVB is of an amateurish organization that cannot manage foreign translations of their web site or indeed to get important links operational.
Moreover, if we look through the small list of Galanthus registrants in 2010 they are:
Kwekerij Ferdinandushof, Overslag.
W.P. Vieveen & T. Koopman, Anna Paulowna.
Fa. Th. J. de Groot & Zn., De Zilk.
Ton Koopman & Wim P. Vieveen, Anna Paulowna.
Gerard Oud, Andijk
Valentin Wijnen, België
It looks to me that everyone is Dutch except Valentin Wijnen who lives in the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium. And much the same is true for every other genus on the list! KAVB are self-evidently not the international body they are trying to convince you that they are.
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They are absolutely not amateurish Alan, but some things could be done better like in every organisation isn't it?
To have a look in the registrated cultivars you have to be a member of the KAVB i believe.
I think its not commonly known, that when you want to have a new snowdrop registrated you have to go to a Dutch organisation!
Just to avoid problems in the near future with Ebay etc its good to have it registrated and NOT as i see on Gala's to name it yourself and sell it. It gives the buyer/collector the intention its officialy registrated.
Maybe you can give Johan van Scheepen your view of the website too Alan, its vanscheepen@kavb.nl
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I'm afraid the overall impression I have of KAVB is of an amateurish organization that cannot manage foreign translations of their web site or indeed to get important links operational.
Rather begs the question of the "professionalism " of the RHS then, doesn't it? Broken links aplenty and no translations at all!
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That also a problem Maggie. Lots of information about registration about cultivars goes from the KAVB to the UK/RHS, but it takes a long long while before we get a reply!
Translation is a problem in general at the RHS; they all do speak English dont they?( with stiff upperlip)
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I'm afraid the overall impression I have of KAVB is of an amateurish organization that cannot manage foreign translations of their web site or indeed to get important links operational.
Rather begs the question of the "professionalism " of the RHS then, doesn't it? Broken links aplenty and no translations at all!
I have no desire to defend the RHS or to comment on its "professionalism" (or lack thereof). However, I believe that it & the KAVB are radically different kinds of organisations with different aims & objectives. The former is a charity while the latter is a trade association.
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they do speak English dont they?( with stiff upperlip)
Och aye !! [given this is THE Scottish Rock Garden Club]
Malcolm.
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To have a look in the registrated cultivars you have to be a member of the KAVB i believe.
Is that normal practice for a registration authority? Anyone can search the RHS narcissus register and see names and full details of registered narcissus cultivars. You don't have to be a member of the RHS. Is there a charge for KAVB membership? And any other membership criteria? Do you have to be a Dutch grower? Anyone thinking of naming a cultivar in any genus needs to be able to see what names have already been registered.
I've always been surprised that the RHS isn't the responsible registration authority for galanthus, given the long history of snowdrop collecting in the UK and the very large number of named cultivars that originate here.
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But GB is also no native homeland of any galanthus
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What does that have to do with naming garden cultivars, Hagen?
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You do hit the point Martin, named not registrated!
And there are several other countries besides GB that have a long history in collecting snowdrops and other bulbs!
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Is that normal practice for a registration authority? Anyone can search the RHS narcissus register and see names and full details of registered narcissus cultivars. You don't have to be a member of the RHS. Is there a charge for KAVB membership? And any other membership criteria? Do you have to be a Dutch grower? Anyone thinking of naming a cultivar in any genus needs to be able to see what names have already been registered.
Just send a email to, her i go again, vanscheepen@kavb.nl and you will get a answer from Johan himself!
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But GB is also no native homeland of any galanthus
Hagen it were the Romans that took there native snowdrops from Italy to Brittanica so they are there already 2000 years!
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To have a look in the registrated cultivars you have to be a member of the KAVB i believe.
Whether or not that is true, the link is broken. If it were true it would be counter-productive, don't you think?
I will contact Johan van Scheepen as you suggest, Gerard.
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No need to take offence or get competitive about it, Gerard. I was simply trying to say that I'm surprised that the RHS didn't at some point in the last 100 years start a register of snowdrop cultivars, given the level of interest in them (especially amongst some very prominent gardeners and figures within the RHS) in this country and the very large number of cultivars selected here.
I really don't want to get into an argument about which country has the longest history of snowdrop selection and growing or in which country most cultivars have been selected and named. I'm just surprised that the RHS hasn't seemed (that I'm aware of) to have been particularly interested in being a registration authority for galanthus. Maybe they recognised how much trouble it could involve.
By the way, you didn't answer my question about if there's a fee for becoming a member of the KAVB and if membership is restricted in any way, perhaps only to Dutch growers. I think the question of access to the KAVB register is an important one, don't you agree?
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Is that normal practice for a registration authority? Anyone can search the RHS narcissus register and see names and full details of registered narcissus cultivars. You don't have to be a member of the RHS. Is there a charge for KAVB membership? And any other membership criteria? Do you have to be a Dutch grower? Anyone thinking of naming a cultivar in any genus needs to be able to see what names have already been registered.
Just send a email to, her i go again, vanscheepen@kavb.nl and you will get a answer from Johan himself!
Surely as a commercial Dutch bulb grower you know if there's a fee for KAVB membership and whether anyone can join, or only Dutch commercial bulb growers?
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But GB is also no native homeland of any galanthus
Hagen it were the Romans that took there native snowdrops from Italy to Brittanica so they are there already 2000 years!
The latest thinking is that Galanthus nivalis was first brought to Britain from Italy by monks much more recently, I think sixteenth century or something like that.
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Is that normal practice for a registration authority? Anyone can search the RHS narcissus register and see names and full details of registered narcissus cultivars. You don't have to be a member of the RHS. Is there a charge for KAVB membership? And any other membership criteria? Do you have to be a Dutch grower? Anyone thinking of naming a cultivar in any genus needs to be able to see what names have already been registered.
Just send a email to, her i go again, vanscheepen@kavb.nl and you will get a answer from Johan himself!
Surely as a commercial Dutch bulb grower you know if there's a fee for KAVB membership and whether anyone can join, or only Dutch commercial bulb growers?
Anyone can become a member and it does cost money but its inclusive a weekly journal called Bloembollenvisie! In Dutch of course, sorry!
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But GB is also no native homeland of any galanthus
Hagen it were the Romans that took there native snowdrops from Italy to Brittanica so they are there already 2000 years!
The latest thinking is that Galanthus nivalis was first brought to Britain from Italy by monks much more recently, I think sixteenth century or something like that.
Martin
a lot of people think a lot of things,I wonder what evidence either supposition is based upon.
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No need to take offence or get competitive about it, Gerard. I was simply trying to say that I'm surprised that the RHS didn't at some point in the last 100 years start a register of snowdrop cultivars, given the level of interest in them (especially amongst some very prominent gardeners and figures within the RHS) in this country and the very large number of cultivars selected here.
I really don't want to get into an argument about which country has the longest history of snowdrop selection and growing or in which country most cultivars have been selected and named. I'm just surprised that the RHS hasn't seemed (that I'm aware of) to have been particularly interested in being a registration authority for galanthus. Maybe they recognised how much trouble it could involve.
I did not feel any attacks or competition Martin, its mostly the way one reads sentences ;D
I think its the Dutch commercial way of thinking and thats not from the last century! The British way is almost always a bit conservative!
Not only Galanthus has been registrated over here lots of others, according to the list on the ISHS site.
The library at the KAVB contains over a 1000 books about flowerbulbs and bulbflowers and how to grow them, the oldest is over 400 years! One can spend days over there!
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Okay, I've obviously stepped on some toes here and have no intention of continuing and risking making things worse. For the record, I never intended to belittle any other countries' horticultural achievements or importance, I don't consider myself to be very conservative or nationalist, and I was simply interested in how the KAVB registration system for galanthus works - and whether it's normal or reasonable to have a registration system where people have to be fee-paying members of a commercial organisation in order to see what names have been registered and what those plants are like. The mention of the RHS not having ever started a snowdrop register is just something that has always puzzled me. It was not meant to be a high-handed, nationalistic comment.
Tony, Bishop, Davis and Grimshaw in Snowdrops set out the evidence for the arrival of G. nivalis in Britain during the 16th century rather than during the Roman occupation. It's quite lengthy, but as I recall is mainly based on the fact that there's no historical or botanical evidence of G. nivalis having been observed or recorded in Britain prior to the 16th century - nothing in any herbals or oter records. They conclude that the arrival was most likely in the 16th century. Exactly who brought the bulbs is speculation, but I believe from what I've heard and read that religious types returning from trips to Rome are highly likely suspects, especially as white flowers like snowdrops are traditionally associated with purity, virginity, etc.
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Sorry, Tony, I should have said that it's also thought that monks or whatever brought the first G. nivalis bulbs to Britain as large naturalised populations tend to be located around or near religious institutions or former institutions - monasteries etc. At least that's how I understand it.
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There is quite a lot to say about registration, but to start I include a short article I wrote on the subject for the International Clematis Society. It does not matter if it is about Clematis or Galanthus.
Perhaps interesting to read for further information exchange on Galanthus registration specifically.
Best wishes,
Wim
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Dont be too serious Martin! Where is your sense of british humor ;D You absolutely unmistakenly certainly didnot step on MY toes! ;D
I am just teasing you and trying to convince everyone to have theire snowdrops official registrated, to avoid problems in the near future with al kinds of people who have other things in mind then we have!
And for the questions/comments please ask/mail Johan van Scheepen he is always willing to help and a very kind person.
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It's easy to misunderstand each other when we can't see facial expressions & body language, well done for keeping the peace you guys....... ;D
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My sense of humour is fine thank you Gerard, but I don't find anything particularly humorous in this thread, nor do I think it's likely to get people flocking to register snowdrop names with KAVB.
Here's a link to the RHS narcissus register, which seems to me to do what it should and appears to be available without charges or fees to anyone, I;d have thought this was a good model for international cultivar registration. But then I'm not experienced in these matters, so maybe I'm wrong.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/plant-science/plant-registration/daffodils
It's in English, but Google Translate will translate it into most languages of course.
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I'd be interested to know what the two new snowdrops are that you've registered, Gerard. Can you post the photos of them?
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It's easy to misunderstand each other when we can't see facial expressions & body language, well done for keeping the peace you guys....... ;D
I felt there was nothing going on Mavers! But i know when i do write this Martin wants to give a reply...... ;D
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Here's a link to the RHS narcissus register, which seems to me to do what it should and appears to be available without charges or fees to anyone, I;d have thought this was a good model for international cultivar registration. But then I'm not experienced in these matters, so maybe I'm wrong.
That is a very good link Martin! Very clear! I send it to the KAVB as an example how it could be done.
Here are the snowdrops i have registrated, 2 of my own selections!
G. nivalis White Kay semi double with simmetric 4x4 petals or 5x5 petals
G. elwesii/gracilis hybrid Anneke Claasen very nice one with green on the bottom of the petals and a bit of a gracilis marking on the inners.
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Hi Gerard,
I don't think a plant has to be registered to be officially named as far as I can remember.
Published names are normally accepted. As long as a detailed description accompanies the name ( and photo ) then that is acceptable. It has to be of course an acceptable publication like a book, journal or even a catalogue. So even if you tried to register EA Bowles under a different name the first published name would take precedence over your new name. This has happened time and time again in the past and the original name is the one that is normally accepted, there are a few exceptions of course.
But I'm pretty sure you knew that already and are maybe on a wind up?
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Here's a link to the RHS narcissus register, which seems to me to do what it should and appears to be available without charges or fees to anyone, I;d have thought this was a good model for international cultivar registration. But then I'm not experienced in these matters, so maybe I'm wrong.
That is a very good link Martin! Very clear! I send it to the KAVB as an example how it could be done.
Here are the snowdrops i have registrated, 2 of my own selections!
G. nivalis White Kay semi double with simmetric 4x4 petals or 5x5 petals
G. elwesii/gracilis hybrid Anneke Claasen very nice one with green on the bottom of the petals and a bit of a gracilis marking on the inners.
Are these your own new seedlings that you've just selected, Gerard?
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A name is easier accepted when the plant has been discribed in certain literature before thats true Sean but its not official.
The only way to get it official is registrating, and why bother its for you guys without any charge!!!
Its a small payment i have to do but otherwise i would immigrate ;D
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Only Anneke Claasen, White Kay is a steady mutation!
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Only Anneke Claasen, White Kay is a steady mutation!
Sorry, what I meant to ask was have you just selected these this year and are these the only bulbs you have of them?
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Gerard, you may have missed my question. I was asking if these two registered snowdrops are recent selections and if these one or two bulbs of each are all you have yet?
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"Galanthus nivalis ‘Tippy Green’
Edibulbcode: 81298
Registrant: Gerard Oud, Andijk.
KAVB REGISTRATIES2 december 2010 • Bijlage BLOEMBOLLENVISIE • 7
Samenvatting: wit 155D met lichtgroen N144D.
Winner: Gerard Oud, Andijk."
Did you forget 'Tippy Green', Gerard?
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No i have not Alan, but i had this one registrated 4 years ago. I gave them 30 bulbs for planting them in the observation garden( only for Dutch growers) They stay there for 2 years and after those 2 years When it has beenn stabile its definitively registrated( only for Dutch growers)
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Gerard, you may have missed my question. I was asking if these two registered snowdrops are recent selections and if these one or two bulbs of each are all you have yet?
I was offline last night, was playing badminton like every wednesday and thursday.
I have selected White Kay i think 7 years ago and have a small number of it now.
Anneke Claasen did flower 3 years ago for the first time and i have 5 bulbs inclusive offset.
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'Tippy Green' is in the 2010 list of registrations, which made me think it was a new one.
I have noticed it on sale on eBay but the accompanying photograph was of a large clump of flowers in bud. Likewise the photograph here http://www.sneeuwklokjes.info/pics/DSC00503.html is over-exposed (a problem I myself often suffer from when photographing snowdrops). So I was hoping you would take the opportunity to show us a good-quality photograph of it, Gerard, and maybe say something about it.
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Its a small welldoing nivalis with small green stripes on the outers. I did sell them on ebay and give them some times as an extra for customers or visitors.
I have plenty so if you want to do a online order Alan ;D
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I have selected White Kay i think 7 years ago and have a small number of it now.
Anneke Claasen did flower 3 years ago for the first time and i have 5 bulbs inclusive offset.
New snowdrops can be frustratingly slow to bulk up. But if I were the Registration Authority I would demand evidence of a minimum number of bulbs and I would probably make that minimum number around 50. The reason I would do this is to try to guard against the possibility that a registered plant may fail to survive in the short term. As Steve Owen is want to complain, too many named snowdrops are unobtainable and, I suspect, may not even exist any longer.
I was approached to enter the virescent elwesii I found a few years ago into the next edition of The Book but I turned down the opportunity because it only exists as 8 non-flowering bulbils at present. I don't think it would be right to record this snowdrop until I am sure there are enough bulbs around that it should not die out. In my case I would want those bulbs to be spread over several different locations, but I recognise that a commercial grower may not be able to do this.
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I have plenty so if you want to do a online order Alan ;D
I do rather like green-marked snowdrops and I'm all in favour of vigorous ones, so I'm quite tempted, Gerard.
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Could you please mention to Johan that the link on this page http://www.kavb.nl/index.cfm?act=esite.tonen&pagina=106 that is supposed to lead to "De database Geregistreerde cultivars" doesn't work, or it doesn't work for me.
I have checked that link again and it is now working, which means you can now view the database of registered Galanthus cultivars. And by you, I mean anybody, the suggestion made earlier that the database might only be open to KAVB members was evidently a mistake.
The list includes about 60 cultivars in alphabetical order, from Anglesey Abbey to Yamanlar. The only one on the list attributed to Gerard is "Tippy Green"; "White Kay" and "Anneke Claasen" are not listed.
This link http://kavb.back2p.soft-orange.com/kavb/kavbSG.nsf/plants-registered?OpenView&Start=1&Count=18&Expand=1&RestrictToCategory=-G-#1 should take you directly to the Galanthus section of the list.
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They have not had time to put the last ones on the list yet Alan. If you were the manager and i had EA Bowles to registrate, simple calculation 50x 120 GBP = 6000 GBP for a registration :o :o
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They have not had time to put the last ones on the list yet Alan. If you were the manager and i had EA Bowles to registrate, simple calculation 50x 120 GBP = 6000 GBP for a registration :o :o
Sorry Gerard, I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying you should supply 50 bulbs to the Registrar, I'm saying you should make a statement to the Registrar that 50 bulbs exist. I think a requirement to supply any bulbs goes beyond what should be needed for registration.
You mentioned E.A. Bowles and before this was ever on sale, a big pot was displayed at an RHS show in London. So a Registrar would know that there are at least enough bulbs of that snowdrop in existence to fill a large pot!
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I have followed Alan's link above to the list of registered snowdrops and my attention was drawn to G. 'Brenda Troyle'. This is an old Irish cultivar; its origins are vague, even unknown, and I wondered who registered it - or even why?
I also notice that among the registrants are Henry Elwes, James Allen and the Rev. Blakeway Phillips. Surely, they didn't register their snowdrops on this site!
Paddy
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....I also notice that among the registrants are Henry Elwes, James Allen and the Rev. Blakeway Phillips. Surely, they didn't register their snowdrops on this site!
Paddy
Only needs E A Bowles and they could play Bridge ;D Might be somewhat more satisfying than registering Snowdrops!!
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I also notice that among the registrants are Henry Elwes, James Allen and the Rev. Blakeway Phillips. Surely, they didn't register their snowdrops on this site!
Well James Allen registered his snowdrop on 12/31/1891 so he was well ahead of his time!
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I must look properly, but are there no photographs?
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... but are there no photographs?
Not that I can find, Brian; nor descriptions either. But you can look to see if your intended name has been taken. "Magnet", for example is still free. I'd get in there quick before somebody else thinks of that one.
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Gerard, you may have missed my question. I was asking if these two registered snowdrops are recent selections and if these one or two bulbs of each are all you have yet?
I have selected White Kay i think 7 years ago and have a small number of it now.
Anneke Claasen did flower 3 years ago for the first time and i have 5 bulbs inclusive offset.
I have to say it wouldn't even occur to me to officially name a new snowdrop that I only had a handful of bulbs of, and I certainly wouldn't register one that was still so few in number and virtually untried as a reliable, healthy and long-lived garden plant. It's difficult to tell from the photos (did the registrar really accept these as suitable for your registration application?) but I also think you may be setting your sights a bit low in terms of quality and uniqueness when selecting new cultivars. Also, what is your evidence for Anneke Claasen being a gracilis x elwesii hybrid? It looks to me like it could easily be simply an elwesii selection.
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It looks like what's needed is for someone somewhere to do a lot of hard graft (far more than has been done so far on this register) drawing up a comprehensive register of existing named cultivars that have been published, no doubt using the Snowdrops book as the starting point for reference material. Then, and only then, I think would we be in a position to start adding newer unpublished cultivar names. At the moment it would be ludicrous to be adding new names to a register which is not a full and comprehensive listing of all those names published so far. The potential for confusion and "registration" of duplicate names is immense if that's not done first.
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And Gerard, please don't try telling me that only "registered" names count, and that previously published names don't. If that were the case then, as Alan says, anyone could quite happily register a new snowdrop called 'Magnet' with the KAVB and the fact that James Allen's 'Magnet' has been around for a hundred years and is grown in vast numbers of gardens would simply be ignored.
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It's difficult to tell from the photos (did the registrar really accept these as suitable for your registration application?)
I have been there with a pot full with Anneke Claasen and this registration is a tribute to a very good friend of me!Her name is Anneke Claasen!
And what the registration concerns, finally after more then 100 years, new snowdrops will be registrated from the UK and other countries were its supposed to be over here in the Netherlands at the KAVB. Its a great pity that only a few knew that before it would have safed a lot of work! ;D
And about quality and uniqueness you dont have to worry, and my setted sights are never high enough. And to give comments on a snowdrop just from a photo is a bit easy dont you think?
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I did say it's difficult to tell from the photos. It was just my opinion that they don't jump out at me as instantly obvious "wow-that's-really-good" candidates for naming and registration (especially in view of how few bulbs there are of them). As many people have said on this forum, there are a lot snowdrops being named very fast, and not all of them are really either worth naming or in wide enough circulation or large enough numbers to have been trialled as good garden plants prior to naming, let alone official registration.
And if the KAVB is the official registration organisation then so be it, but work has to be done to create a register that's fit for purpose.
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I was, by the way, already aware that the KAVB was a registration authority for galanthus but from what I'd previously read I understood that it was necessary up until now to send a number of bulbs to the KAVB for trial in their gardens as a condition for registration, which I think would have put off many people from the idea of registering a new snowdrop, especially if it was a very valuable one (or had the potential to be very valuable). Apart from cost, the security of those bulbs would, I imagine, have been a major issue for some growers, especially in relation to plant breeders' rights.
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Yes it can be expensive when you have to send bulbs, but that is only for Dutch growers. The photo and discription is rather new and enough for foreighn growers/breeders.
By the way the evidence for Anneke Claasen being a gracilis/elwesii hybrid is simple when you do know the parents, and i do ;D
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The whole idea of "registration" feels to me a bit like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. And whilst Martin may rightly comment that many of us have criticised the speed and volume of appearance of new named varieties, perhaps it should be said out loud that some of the main perpetrators of this rush to name are well-known persons in the snowdrop world and seemingly above criticism. If "Snowdrops2" is going to apply somewhat fiercer qualifications for snowdrops to be "fit for naming", lets hope the writers don't flinch from applying those criteria to those well-known persons as well as everyone else. Maybe what is needed is a galanthopoly version of the financial FTSE Index, which is composed of the top 500 accredited companies' shares; for a successful company's shares to become part of the FTSE Index, another has to drop out!
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By the way the evidence for Anneke Claasen being a gracilis/elwesii hybrid is simple when you do know the parents, and i do ;D
Well, that doesn't really answer my question, but I've had more than enough of this thread. At times it's felt like wading through treacle.
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The whole idea of "registration" feels to me a bit like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. And whilst Martin may rightly comment that many of us have criticised the speed and volume of appearance of new named varieties, perhaps it should be said out loud that some of the main perpetrators of this rush to name are well-known persons in the snowdrop world and seemingly above criticism. If "Snowdrops2" is going to apply somewhat fiercer qualifications for snowdrops to be "fit for naming", lets hope the writers don't flinch from applying those criteria to those well-known persons as well as everyone else. Maybe what is needed is a galanthopoly version of the financial FTSE Index, which is composed of the top 500 accredited companies' shares; for a successful company's shares to become part of the FTSE Index, another has to drop out!
When investmentcompanies start taking options on it will blow up the whole thing Steve! And the 16th century Windtrade in tulips will repeat again!
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By the way the evidence for Anneke Claasen being a gracilis/elwesii hybrid is simple when you do know the parents, and i do ;D
Well, that doesn't really answer my question, but I've had more than enough of this thread. At times it's felt like wading through treacle.
Treacle? It feels like a swamp i am sinking in, i wish i had never started to be just a help for official registration ;D
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I was thinking last night there are more then 5000 registrated Tulips and more then 5000 registrated Narcis and there are maybe only 500 Galanthus excisting and with names.
So lets start because its maybe only 10% of the others, if it is 10 %. And i have said this now for the last time ITS FREE OF ANY FEE/PAYMENT/CHARGE basta.
For what i have heard there has been only contact yet with a guy from Cottbus Germany ;D
I hope the others will follow and be cooperative, because we have to do this together!
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I must say that this thread seems to have become unnecessarily ill-tempered. Despite my scepticism of some aspects of the KAVB, I intend to investigate further and to try to register one of my snowdrop "unknowns".
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I must say that this thread seems to have become unnecessarily ill-tempered. Despite my scepticism of some aspects of the KAVB, I intend to investigate further and to try to register one of my snowdrop "unknowns".
I'm sorry you feel like that Alan. I've tried very hard not to be ill-tempered but to stick to a logical and factual discussion of the issues of galanthus cultivar naming and registration, including various aspects that have concerned forumists in the past. It's an important issue and not one that I feel should be taken lightly, as the whole issue of snowdrop cutlivar naming is already rife with problems if not completely out of control.
Gerard, according to Chris Sanham, who keeps a record of snowdrops named, there are (at the last count I heard from him) over 1,500 named snowdrops, not 500, and that number is increasing all the time.
I won't be contributing to this thread any more because I've found it very hard work, and I find it upsetting to be accused of being ill-tempered when I feel I've been trying my best to conduct a reasonable discussion on a very important problem and to tackle some very difficult and delicate issues. I've found
Gerard's attitude towards me personally and the British in general insulting at various points but have repeatedly tried not to rise to it.
I'm sorry I felt I had to comment on Gerard's methods of selecting for naming and registration but they seem to me symptomatic and illustrative of some problems that are common in this area and about which forumists have complained in the past. I didn't feel that I could just turn a blind eye to them, and I thought that I really should say something. I thought that was acceptable on a forum like this, where I didn't think we were about just patting each other on the back all the time, but about tackling difficult issues while trying to be tactful and polite. It seems I've failed. Sorry.
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I was applauding Alan's comment that he was going to look further into the KAVB registration scheme!
This thread seems to engendering a great many misunderstandings and I am going to close it.