Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: SteveC2 on March 08, 2011, 05:43:59 PM

Title: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on March 08, 2011, 05:43:59 PM
The first of my little Ophrys collection opened this morning and it just happens to be one of my favourites, Ophrys speculum.  I love the way the sun shines on the blue mirror.  Several more to come in the next few weeks but I was wondering if there any other Ophrys fans out there.  At the shows I always seem to get someone who declares "I'd rather see them growing in the wild".  Of course this applies to just about everything, except the man-made hybrids and well wouldn't we all, but not everyone can spend the spring touring Europe, or even Southern England.  We have plenty of Bee Orchids, O. apifera, around here and I love photgraphing them, but that's no reason not to grow them.  So here's the start of my little gallery, which if you join in, might become a big one!  
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 08, 2011, 05:57:34 PM
hi Steve that speculum is very nice,not one I grow. I have a few,they are not easy to get hold of and usually very expensive. Here are two
 Ophrys lutea
and if I can expand the topic a little an
Orchis anatolica
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 08, 2011, 06:09:31 PM
Tony i used to get my bee orchids from orchids by post if you email them they still might do them,the website still running.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 08, 2011, 06:28:35 PM
David thank you my budget for this year is fully spent
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on March 08, 2011, 06:34:59 PM
My two luteas are well behind yours Tony, nice spikes showing but no flowers yet, but that's another favourite of mine.  I suppose you might say Ophrys are expensive, particularly as few seem to be inclined to bulk up, but it's all relative, especially when you see some of the prices which snowdrops are fetching!  Sphegodes or sicula will be my next flowers.  I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maren on March 08, 2011, 07:25:26 PM
Nice hardies, keep them coming, please. ;D
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Paul T on March 10, 2011, 12:54:23 AM
Steve and Tony,

Thanks for the pics of these little gems.  The blue "mirror" on that first one is so cool.  Incredibly rare genus here in Aus, but I have some seed of one species to try, so fingers crossed.  I've seen one in person at Otto's place in Victoria, but that is the only one I have ever seen in real life.  They're so very, very cool.

Keep em coming, everyone.  8)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on March 10, 2011, 01:22:56 PM
My sicula is in the process of opening.  The books describe it as a small lutea and they are so right.  The flower is about 9mm x 7mm, hence the difficulty in photographing it.  The wind which is making the entire greenhouse wobble doesn't help!
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 10, 2011, 03:11:37 PM
Steve windy here as well. I may as well say that I do not hold with any of these numerous names that have been given to the ophrys and that I look at these particular ones as lutea. Every year when I go to the local AGS show the same plants appear with new names. I have seen hundreds in the field and in a few square yards can see dozens of 'species'. You can lie down amongst them with a handbook and have difficulty deciding what they are.It makes money for those selling them.

Having said that I find it quite interesting that on the ophrys and orchis so many of the flowers are upside down when they open.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on March 10, 2011, 04:20:30 PM
Couldn't agree more about the names.  I thought that the whole point of the scientific naming system was to make it easier for people to communicate about the plants, changing them every few years does not help anyone.  But, who is right?  I have one book listing 17 species of European Ophrys with many subspecies, another listing 252 species, and others falling in between.  As for the sicula, call it lutea by all means, but it is very different to my "luteas", so is it just a genetically weedy plant or a different species?  You pays your money and takes your choice!
Fact is I just think it's cute, so let's just call it a yellow Ophrys.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 10, 2011, 05:03:35 PM
Steve I agree it is very cute. I look forward to seeing some of your other ones. I have about six 'lutea'in flower at the moment and will try and post some pictures tomorrow for comparison.They do seem very variable in stature but I am not sure if this is not down to my cultivation methods for good or bad. Lutea is in fact one which has self seeded in my plunge a few times.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 12, 2011, 08:50:45 PM
Two more Ophrys lutea which as Steve says are difficult to photograph and an
Orchis papilionacea
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on March 13, 2011, 09:44:30 PM
Another Ophrys open today, but when it comes to names this one is a humdinger.  I'll just call it a "sphegodes" type as there are so many species which look so similar.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maren on March 13, 2011, 10:27:22 PM
Steve,

I can't help with the name but it is a fabulous picture.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 13, 2011, 11:37:15 PM
Steve that is wonderful and a great picture.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fermi de Sousa on March 16, 2011, 05:21:25 AM
Wow, Steve,
that close-up makes it look like a cute little furry alien-creature from Star Wars or some such Sci-Fi movie! Very marketable  ;D
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 16, 2011, 08:21:51 PM
A couple more of mine in flower

Orchis morio this one is a very small plant only 10cms high
Orchis tenthredinifera the sepals seem very pale. I do not know its origin as i was given it.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on March 22, 2011, 06:01:46 PM
Another Ophrys, morisii, which I treated myself to at the London Orchid show, so all credit goes to Jeff at Laneside.  My lutea are still refusing to open, they must know that I have a show on Saturday.
Love your tenthredinifera Tony.  Mine are on the way!
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 22, 2011, 09:27:20 PM
Steve

I see why you treated yourself,that is wonderful
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maren on March 23, 2011, 11:57:56 AM
Hi Tony,

with plants like that you may be interested in the Hardy Orchid Society http://www.hardyorchidsociety.org.uk/. This coming Sunday, they hold their Spring Meeting and Plant Competition at the Exeter Hall, Kidlington, OX5 1AB. Start for non-members at 11:00, you can pay at the door. There will be talks with slide shows and oodles of the finest hardy orchids for sale. Why not give it a try, you won't regret it. ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 23, 2011, 04:35:43 PM
Maren

thank you for that ,I am acquainted with the society and in fact Ken Kitchen one of the meeting Secretaries is in our local AGS group. I always find that the problem with these Societies is that they are almost totally southern biased (only one meeting up here) and the travelling is pretty onerous. I remember when the Fritillaria group held a meeting in the 'North' at Loughborough which gave those of us in the north some amusement.

I do however often look at their website and really enjoy the photographs there which are a delight to see.

I leave for Spain on Tuesday to look at some of them in the wild plus a few narcissus
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 24, 2011, 04:00:44 PM
here is one I was given with no name and I am calling it

Ophrys spegodes
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on March 24, 2011, 06:52:30 PM
Lovely plant Tony.  Now I'm aware that I'm venturing into the minefield of of Ophrys names, but it looks very like one I know as argolica.
To change the subject slightly, you obviously have a few ophrys, which ones have bulked up vegetatively?  So far my bombyliflora did so regularly, until I sold the colony, so do some sphegodes, and last year a lupercalis, or fusca, produced two whopping great tubers, much to my delight.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 24, 2011, 07:44:09 PM
Steve

At first I too thought it was argolica until I looked at its distribution and although I cannot be certain I do not think it came from the right area to be that. I have had it for about twenty years and I cannot confirm this as I am no longer in touch with the person who gave it to me. Of course some people may think argolica is only a form of spegodes. As you will have gathered I sit amongst the lumpers and see no need for the constant splitting and renaming which seems to be happening across every genus I am interested in. I do not change my labels sure in the knowledge that given time the name on them will return.

I have about twenty ophrys and the only one that bulks up is bombyliflora, none of the others do although I get an occasional off set from lutea. I have tried the method of propagation taking of the new tuber before the plant dies down in the hope of producing a second one and have had complete failure.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Graham Catlow on March 24, 2011, 07:55:44 PM

I have about twenty ophrys and the only one that bulks up is bombyliflora, none of the others do although I get an occasional off set from lutea. I have tried the method of propagation taking of the new tuber before the plant dies down in the hope of producing a second one and have had complete failure.

Well that answers my question. I rarely see them in groups and was wondering if they bulked up. I have been interested in trying them for a while but if they aren't going to bulk up then I think I will give them a miss.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Alex on March 26, 2011, 06:03:30 PM
Many of the species (most, even) have produced two tubers some years for me. I think they can be quite short lived plants, so this is a nice insurance policy.

A few out in my greenhouse at the moment: O. lunulata, morisii, X heraultii (tenthredinifera X speculum) and two mystery species - can anybody help? The first mystery type looks like it might fit into the bertolonii complex, perhaps?

Alex
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Alex on March 26, 2011, 06:04:04 PM
Forgot the heraultii.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on March 28, 2011, 01:21:20 PM
My next one to open is O. insectifera, another tiny but fascinating flower.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on March 29, 2011, 05:19:19 PM
Finally my first Ophrys lutea opens, and it's well worth waiting for.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on March 30, 2011, 11:17:04 AM
And Ophrys heldreichii.  Or at least I think so, flowering for the first time and not quite what I had expected.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on April 03, 2011, 07:11:37 PM
Coming to the end now with two forms of Ophrys tenthredinifera.  Only reinholdii to come now but that's a few weeks away.  It was last to flower last year as well!
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on April 12, 2011, 10:58:19 AM
Steve very nice. The one I photographed in Spain was over 30cms tall ,growing at the base of a spiny shrub.

Last of my tender ones now in flower (not the dactylorhiza which is hardy)

Orchis morio
Orchis mascula (not sure about my identification here)
Orchis tridentata (not sure about my identification here)
Orchis pallens
Dactylorhiza sambucina
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on April 12, 2011, 11:49:46 AM
Nice plants Tony.
Can't help thinking that your mascula has some morio in it, those stripy wings suggest this.  Here's one of my morios for comparison.
Orchis pallens has been one of my disappointments this year, decent sized plant no flower.
My tridentata is some weeks away from flowering yet.
Here's a picture of my yellow sambucina, just for completeness.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 12, 2011, 04:03:24 PM
I think morio as well Tony.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Neil on April 12, 2011, 06:23:01 PM
Tony

Orchis morio is now Anacamptis morio.  Also regarding O. mascula that will spotted leaves and A morio will have non spotted leaves.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 12, 2011, 06:45:48 PM
Tony

Orchis morio is now Anacamptis morio.  Also regarding O. mascula that will spotted leaves and A morio will have non spotted leaves.
Neil O.mascula can have plain green leaves as well.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Neil on April 12, 2011, 08:25:52 PM
Tony

Orchis morio is now Anacamptis morio.  Also regarding O. mascula that will spotted leaves and A morio will have non spotted leaves.
Neil O.mascula can have plain green leaves as well.

Davey, 

All my literature says that they have spotted leaves, but that is for ones from this country, but a quick search shows that the further south you go the less spots there are on the leaves and many are spot less. 
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on April 12, 2011, 08:50:35 PM
I must admit that I find a thread called Ophrys 2011 a strange place to find photos and discussions on Orchis / Anacamptis. Have I missed something?
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on April 12, 2011, 08:55:18 PM
Fred early on I broadened it out to include orchis and mentioned this in my first post

Neil

you can call me a dinosaur but I am ignoring the name change,its only an opinion.I live in the expectation it will revert back or will be called something else in my life time and if it is after I am gone well I shall not be worried by it.

I am grateful for the opinions about the plant but when it is next to a morio of which I have several it is very different in the shape of the flowers. However it has plain leaves very similar in form to the morio.

I am meeting with a member of the Hardy Orchid Society on Saturday and so will take it for an opinion in the flesh and will report back
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 12, 2011, 08:56:22 PM
Tony

Orchis morio is now Anacamptis morio.  Also regarding O. mascula that will spotted leaves and A morio will have non spotted leaves.
Neil O.mascula can have plain green leaves as well.

Davey, 

All my literature says that they have spotted leaves, but that is for ones from this country, but a quick search shows that the further south you go the less spots there are on the leaves and many are spot less. 
Neil we have plain leaved colonies here i will take some pics for you,in fact i will try to work out the percentage.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Neil on April 12, 2011, 09:29:01 PM
Tony

Orchis morio is now Anacamptis morio.  Also regarding O. mascula that will spotted leaves and A morio will have non spotted leaves.
Neil O.mascula can have plain green leaves as well.

Davey, 

All my literature says that they have spotted leaves, but that is for ones from this country, but a quick search shows that the further south you go the less spots there are on the leaves and many are spot less. 
Neil we have plain leaved colonies here i will take some pics for you,in fact i will try to work out the percentage.

Oh well there goes that theory then, however all those locally to me do have spots!

Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on April 12, 2011, 10:24:10 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on April 13, 2011, 09:34:56 AM
Thank you Maggi.  I've been wondering how to change the name of the thread ever since Tony introduced his "others".  Not that I'm complaining as it seems that there are very few forumists growing Ophrys, judging by the lack of contributions, and I have enjoyed seeing Tony's "half-hardies" which seem to very much mirror my own collection, albeit one or two weeks ahead in the flowering schedule.  Maybe it's warmer up in Lancashire, or he keeps his greenhouse warmer than mine, but it's a good job it's not a race or he'd win hands down.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on April 13, 2011, 10:16:42 AM
Steve

I have mine in small clay pots plunged in sand with a soil warming cable set to 5c. I have built a box covered in bubble polythene which sits over them in winter. The lid is open most of the time and closed when it is freezing mainly at night. This winter I have also piled extra bubble wrap on top as it has been the coldest we have ever experienced here. I would not let them freeze. it is normally a relatively mild area. My biggest problem is damp as it rains(not for the last three weeks) most days and the humidity is terrible year round.

My yellow Dactylorhiza sambucina which is hardy and kept in a cold frame.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Alex on April 16, 2011, 10:02:47 PM
Beautiful sambucina, Tony. I tried for a few years to get the yellow form but only got pinks.

Ophrys splendida and Orchis purpurea here today.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: mark smyth on April 16, 2011, 10:32:26 PM
I'm sooo jealous!

Orchis morio pale form has been on my wants list for so long

Stunning orchids guys
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Alex on April 16, 2011, 11:47:14 PM
Actually, I'm not sure this has quite the right shaped lip for O. purpurea - any suggestions?
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 18, 2011, 08:07:02 PM
some plain green leafed orchis mascula for Niel,and the last shows one next to a normal one.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: David Nicholson on April 18, 2011, 08:26:13 PM
My friend, Stella Tracey, is developing a wild flower meadow on a one acre field she owns adjacent to her garden. I visited on Sunday and took a couple of shots (not very good ones) of two orchids that have appeared and would appreciated an ID please.

If anyone does happen to have spare seed of any species of British orchid I would be very happy to pass it on to Stella and she would be deliriously happy to receive it.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Neil on April 18, 2011, 08:59:07 PM
Davey it must be quite warm up there, my local Population are just starting to put up their flower spikes.  My own ones, have decided not to flower this year :(

David they look like Orchis mascula, it's a bit hard to see as I using my phone to view this, but I am pretty sure about that.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 18, 2011, 09:41:11 PM
David i can get you loads,and i agree with Neil Orchis mascula.
Neil i think FredG worked out we are two weeks ahead this year.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: christian pfalz on April 19, 2011, 08:17:05 PM
hello,
orchis purpurea flowers in my garden.....
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/ysa001.jpg?t=1303240609)
cheers
chris
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: David Nicholson on April 20, 2011, 10:41:46 PM
David i can get you loads,and i agree with Neil Orchis mascula.

Hi Dave, sorry not to have replied earlier but have been away for most of the last couple of days. I will PM you tomorrow.

Thanks to Dave and Neil for the ID.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on April 21, 2011, 01:42:56 PM
a couple more
Anacamtis pyramidalis

and one  I think for only an enthusiast
Listera ovata

 I have this self seeding in the garden
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on April 21, 2011, 02:08:34 PM


and one  I think for only an enthusiast
Listera ovata

 I have this self seeding in the garden

What?!!! :o   You lucky dog!
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on April 21, 2011, 03:58:26 PM


and one  I think for only an enthusiast
Listera ovata

 I have this self seeding in the garden

What?!!! :o   You lucky dog!

Maggi

Self seeding listera and dactylorhiza indicate a garden that could be taken for a bog.

I see in the Conference report Ian refers to 'our very light, free-draining sandy soil.

You lucky dog!!
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on April 21, 2011, 04:00:02 PM
and one  I think for only an enthusiast
Listera ovata

You're way in front of me with that one Tony.
Mine are only up about 2" - 3".

Not necessarily one for the enthusiast but someone with a magnyfying glass maybe  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on April 21, 2011, 04:28:18 PM
Fred that one is in a pot in a frame. The 'wild'ones are at the same stage as you
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on April 21, 2011, 04:31:54 PM


and one  I think for only an enthusiast
Listera ovata

 I have this self seeding in the garden

What?!!! :o   You lucky dog!

Maggi

Self seeding listera and dactylorhiza indicate a garden that could be taken for a bog.

I see in the Conference report Ian refers to 'our very light, free-draining sandy soil.

You lucky dog!!

Yes, even though the dactylorhiza self seed here, I suppose we must call it quits!  ;)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maren on April 21, 2011, 07:27:15 PM
Listera ovata, hmm, I bought one years ago not knowing how dull it was going to be, sorry Listera. Well, now I keep weeding it out every year from pots where it has sown itself. Guess it has the last laugh. Now if it were Anacamptis pyramidalis, I would bring it tea in bed every morning. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Neil on April 21, 2011, 10:20:19 PM
Well my L. ovata  have only just put there leaves up
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: christian pfalz on April 23, 2011, 02:30:40 PM
in flower today, ophry....a hybrid between insectifera and sphegodes ? or apifera ? or holoserica ???
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/xcy011.jpg?t=1303565416)
cheers
chris
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: alpinelover on April 24, 2011, 09:59:37 PM
Orchis mascula in my garden today.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Alex on April 25, 2011, 04:52:20 PM
From my greenhouse today, Ophrys lacaitae, O. apulica and Serapias neglecta.

Alex
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on May 02, 2011, 01:13:27 PM
A Serapis vomeracea in flower now
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on May 07, 2011, 11:38:00 AM
Not one to quicken the pulse. The flower head is about 1cm across

Amitostigma gonggashanicum
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Alex on May 07, 2011, 11:59:19 AM
A couple of Ophrys from a few days ago - O. lacaitae and O. aveyronensis.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 07, 2011, 01:55:28 PM
A few Dactylorhiza are beginning to open with me.

1. Dactylorhiza fuchsii
2. Dactylorhiza fuchsii
3. Dactylorhiza foliosa
4. Anacamptis laxifolia now fully open.

I will try to get Platanthera chlorantha when the sun disappears.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 07, 2011, 02:47:41 PM
Platanthera chlorantha is terrible to photograph if there's sun around, it just burns out.
I managed to get a dullish period.

Incidentally I'm still awaiting the promised thunderstorms, so far I've had 1" in my barrels ( all of which had been completely empty).
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maren on May 07, 2011, 08:17:01 PM
Lovely Greater Butterfly orchid. Was it at Aston Rowant?
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 07, 2011, 08:27:01 PM
This is a tame one Maren.
It was originally purchased as Platanthera bifolia but we can both see it isn't  ;)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on May 07, 2011, 08:48:36 PM
Platanthera chlorantha

Incidentally I'm still awaiting the promised thunderstorms, so far I've had 1" in my barrels ( all of which had been completely empty).

Fred lovely platanthera way ahead of mine.

Just had a couple of inches of rain in the last half hour and no sign of it letting up.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on May 07, 2011, 11:01:32 PM
Well that makes a change Tony, for once my plants are ahead of yours!  Bifiloia and chlorantha both in flower for over a week now.
And still no rain, I've emptied my own four water butts and have raided half my neighbours.  Today acquired two 25 litre containers for collection of rain water from a friend five miles away!
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maren on May 09, 2011, 03:30:35 PM
What you need is this, available athttp://www.rainharvesting.co.uk/pages/systems/domestic.html (http://www.rainharvesting.co.uk/pages/systems/domestic.html)

I'd have one straight away but the tank would have to be delivered by helicopter which adds a little to the cost. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on May 09, 2011, 03:59:34 PM
Here's a slightly larger picture than Maren's from that website:
click to enlarge....
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on May 09, 2011, 09:38:36 PM
All I can ask is how much is that going to cost?  And who's going to dig the holes?

And now my final ophrys for the year.  It should have been Orchis tridentata, or so the label said, but as the plant grew I became increasingly aware that it was another ophrys, and when the flowers opened out popped this gem.  As for a name, it's like a cerastes or maybe a form of scolopax, but as I've said before I don't really care, it's such a nice plant.

Another question; Why don't I notice the cobwebs on my photos until after I've posted them?
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on May 09, 2011, 10:33:34 PM
Steve what ever it is it is lovely and I can understand why you like it.

cannot resist posting without mentioning the rain. As the saying goes'it never rains but it pours' ,it started on Thursday night and we are being deluged several times a day. Brilliant growing weather and we can almost see the plants in the garden growing. Just hoping for a dry day on Thursday when we are going to see the cypripediums at Silverdale
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on May 09, 2011, 11:49:19 PM
Rain!  What rain?  One storm on Saturday night, one water butt half full.  Otherwise our deluge amounts to a few big drops which can't even wet the pavements.  Perhaps I should change my signature to Steve in Windy but dry Lincolnshire. 
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 10, 2011, 01:15:56 PM
I'm with Steve on the rain.
Saturday night I got half a barrel on my own main supply and a little on the two others.
Luckily I have access to next door's rainwater and emptied a full barrel across to my emergency supply.
Just a short shower since then, I need much more.

Another question; Why don't I notice the cobwebs on my photos until after I've posted them?

I do notice the cobwebs before I post Steve but they weren't there before I took the photo, honest  ::)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Brian Ellis on May 10, 2011, 01:54:17 PM
Rain!  What rain?  One storm on Saturday night, one water butt half full. 

Luxury!  I should think we got half a bucketful :-\
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Gail on May 10, 2011, 05:00:46 PM
Rain!  What rain?  One storm on Saturday night, one water butt half full. 

Luxury!  I should think we got half a bucketful :-\
Lucky you - we've had six drops in as many weeks....
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Brian Ellis on May 10, 2011, 06:59:58 PM
Rain!  What rain?  One storm on Saturday night, one water butt half full. 

Luxury!  I should think we got half a bucketful :-\
Lucky you - we've had six drops in as many weeks....
I was always prone to exaggeration Gail ;)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 10, 2011, 07:38:15 PM
I just spotted this little beauty hiding in amongst the more colourful Dactylorhiza.
And I do mean little  :D
Not a plant I've been able to find very much about.

Steve, never mind the cobwebs, I didn't notice the spider when I took the pictures.

Anacamptis fragrance

EDIT:- or is it Anacamptis coriophora ssp fragrans
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 11, 2011, 11:33:21 AM
The plant after cleaning it up with a paint brush.
It does look better  ;D

Anacamptis coriophora ssp fragrans

Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Neil on May 11, 2011, 05:49:04 PM
Fred nice plant, I normally get greenfly on my spikes not spiders.

Anacamptis coriophora subsp fragrans or Anacamptis fragans are both synonyms of Anacamptis coriophora
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on May 11, 2011, 06:02:42 PM


EDIT:- or is it Anacamptis coriophora ssp fragrans

Fred

very nice,I still call mine Orchis..... as you may see when I post them in a week or so. I spray against greenfly on them as they seem quite susceptible.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 11, 2011, 07:28:35 PM
Anacamptis coriophora subsp fragrans or Anacamptis fragans are both synonyms of Anacamptis coriophora

Using the wonder of the internet, google will provide references to the following.

Anacamptis fragrans
Anacamptis coriophora----------------- the more widely accepted correct name
Anacamptis coriophora ssp fragrans (POLLINI) 1811
Anacamptis fragrance ------------------- the name I bought this plant under on ebay
Anacamptis coniofora fragrance --------- seed offered on ebay ( wonderful spelling)
Orchis fragrans
Orchis coriophora (LINNE) 1753

Our friends the taxonomist have given us :-  Anacamptis coriophora (L.) R.M.Bateman 1997, A.M.Pridgeon & M.W.Chase 1997; Anteriorchis coriophora (L.) E.Klein & Strack 1989; Anteriorchis coriophora subsp. martrinii (Timb.-Lagr.) Jacquet 1997; Herorchis coriophora (L.) D.Tyteca & E.Klein 2008; Herorchis coriophora subsp. fragrans (Pollini) D.Tyteca & E.Klein 2008; Herorchis coriophora subsp. martrinii (Timb.-Lagr.) D.Tyteca & E.Klein 2008; Orchis cimicinus Crantz 1835; Orchis coreosmus St.-Lag. 1880; Orchis coriophora subsp. carpetana (Willk.) Malag. 1968; Orchis coriophora (L),Orchis coriophora subsp. martrinii (Timb.-Lagr.) Nyman 1882; Orchis coriophora var. dolichoceras Maire 1939; Orchis coriophora var. elongata Maire 1940; Orchis coriophora var. lusciniarum Maire 1939; Orchis coriophora var. major E.G.Camus 1900; Orchis coriophora var. polliniana (Spreng.) Pollard 1824; Orchis coriophora var. sennenii A.Camus 1928; Orchis coriophora var. subsancta Balayer 1986; Orchis coriophora var. symphypetala Brot. 1827 ; Orchis fragrans var. elongata (Maire) Raynaud 1985; Orchis fragrans var. polliniana (Spreng.) Pollard 1824; Orchis martrinii Timb.-Lagr. 1856; Orchis polliniana Spreng. 1815

DON'T WE LOVE THEM  ::)

Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on May 12, 2011, 08:57:40 PM
Out near Arnside the Ophrys insectifera were just coming into flower
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on May 12, 2011, 09:21:36 PM
Super find Tony i have never seen it in the wild.
.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Peter Maguire on May 13, 2011, 05:07:27 PM
This one definitely falls into the "and some others" category: Liparis makinoana 'Kuru Suzu'. It caused something of a stir at our local group meeting on Monday.
Difficult to get a good photo of it though!

That's a lovely Anacamptis Fred
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 13, 2011, 06:32:11 PM
Very nice Liparis Peter.
I note that it's reported as being hardier than Liparis kumokiri which goes through our winters without heating for me.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on May 13, 2011, 06:34:50 PM
Very nice Liparis Peter.
I note that it's reported as being hardier than Liparis kumokiri which goes through our winters without heating for me.
What I know about these plants could not even cover the tip  of a pin so the photos  ( looking like some extraordinary insects) and your comment about hardiness are most encouraging.  :)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Peter Maguire on May 13, 2011, 09:02:07 PM
It gets the same treatment as my Cyps, a compost of pumice/leafould stood outside on a sand plunge in summer, on the floor of the alpine house and kept slightly damp and above -3C in winter.
(mind you, I've only had it 18 months so far, it has flowered both summers)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 18, 2011, 07:39:23 PM
My Dactylorhiza are coming on well now.

Here's a few I managed to photograph despite the wind.
Hopefully there will be a lot more if the weather gets a little calmer.


1. Dactylorhiza fuchsii
2. Dactylorhiza fuchsii
3. Dactylorhiza fuchsii
4. Dactylorhiza fuchsii
5. Dactylorhiza fuchsii  white
6. Dactylorhiza hybrid
7. Dactylorhiza hybrid
8. Dactylorhiza hybrid
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on May 18, 2011, 07:55:23 PM
Lovely stuff there Fred,i love the pure white!
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 18, 2011, 08:15:31 PM
.......i love the pure white!
That photo is a couple of days old, it's much more open now
Very awkward to get a good shot of it.
It needs to be still and overcast.
Any sun and it just bleaches out.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on May 18, 2011, 08:43:28 PM
What a great selection, Fred. Every one a gem. Super shots.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 18, 2011, 08:48:11 PM
Thank you Maggi.

I managed another shot of the Dactylorhiza fuchsii white.

Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on May 18, 2011, 09:12:58 PM
My word! That is quite stunning!
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on May 18, 2011, 11:30:11 PM
Fred they are really lovely,a little ahead of mine which are just coming into flower.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 19, 2011, 12:03:19 PM
Just a couple more Dactylorhiza for now  ;D

1. Dactylorhiza foliosa
2. Dactikorhiza foliosa
3. Dactylorhiza sp. (hybrid?)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Brian Ellis on May 19, 2011, 06:36:59 PM
Lovely white one Fred, in fact they are all very nice. 8)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maren on May 19, 2011, 08:19:01 PM
Beautiful, Fred. Is the white on Dactylorhiza fuchsii ssp okellyi?  :)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 20, 2011, 08:10:19 PM
Beautiful, Fred. Is the white on Dactylorhiza fuchsii ssp okellyi?  :)

To me it's a Dactylorhiza fuchsii with a white flower Maren.
It's certainly not from Ireland :D


Another couple of Dactylorhiza are opening.
1. Dactylorhiza hybrid.
2. Dactylorhiza hybrid. This darker one is a mystery. I potted up some Epipactis pallustris in 2008, this little fellow has since appeared in that pot. This is it's first flowering but that's still fast growing. There's a beautiful blue tinge in the pink.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 21, 2011, 06:59:13 PM
Just can't help just sitting and looking at these.

Ophrys apifera
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on May 22, 2011, 11:42:04 AM
My dactylorhiza's in pots are now flowering,still some way to go for the self sown ones in the garden

Dactylorhiza saccifera

same species but the one crown has produced three spikes.
Dactylorhiza fuchsii
Dactylorhiza ' Eskimo Nell'
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fleurbleue on May 22, 2011, 02:41:32 PM
Eskimo Nell is a pure beauty Tony  ::)...  ;)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 22, 2011, 06:07:09 PM
Finally in its fourth year this one is increasing.
I grow it with my carnivores in pure live sphagnum and wet.

Calopogon tuberosus
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maren on May 23, 2011, 12:06:51 AM
Hi Fred,

lovely Calapogon, congratulations.

Where do you get the live sphagnum? I could do with some.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Anthony Darby on May 23, 2011, 06:31:33 AM
Sphagnum grows in any wet, peaty place in Scotland. The conifer plantation up the hill from where I used to live had ditches full of it.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maren on May 23, 2011, 07:14:53 AM
Well, Anthony,
maybe I should have asked: where can I get some live sphagnum moss without travelling 800 miles to Scotland and another 800 miles back ? ;) ;) ;) maybe if I ask nicely, someone will post me some? :) :) :)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Anthony Darby on May 23, 2011, 08:02:39 AM
Don't quote me Maren, but I should think there are peat mosses closer. Wales is pretty wet and I've seen sphagnum bogs in the New Forest. I don't suggest you head to your nearest and dig it up, but as you suggest, I'm sure someone can send you some. Squeeze out the water and put it damp in a poly bag and it's quite light enough to post without too much expense. Moss also doesn't go off quickly like most other vegetation. Also, sphagnum regenerates quickly in plantation ditches, so harvesting it is not damaging to the environment on two counts.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: SteveC2 on May 25, 2011, 10:48:08 AM
My last of the season, and I know that I've said that before, but this one has surprised me.  A first flowering of Ophrys apifera trolli, the wasp orchid variation of our bee orchid.  I never expected it to flower as the plant remained very small when others grew on.  I just hope that it's made next year's tuber. 
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on May 25, 2011, 07:22:59 PM
Steve that is very lovely.

In flower now a Dactylorhiza purpurella, the Northern Marsh Orchid a gift from a garden visitor last year.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on May 30, 2011, 09:45:46 AM
two plants of

Orchis (Anacamptis) coriophora
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Neil on May 30, 2011, 07:36:14 PM
Very nice Tony :)
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on May 30, 2011, 09:35:41 PM
Several plants have flowered during my short trip away.

1. Calanthe arcuata, this is hardier than I thought it was going to be, the greenhouse was subject to -17C last winter.
2. Calanthe arcuata
3. Calanthe arcuata
3. Dactylorhiza maculata, self set.
4. Dactylorhiza maculata
5. Dactylorhiza sp.
6. Platanthera metabifolia, I know it's not the season but this has me thinking "Hark the Herald Angels"
7. Platanthera metabifolia
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Claire Cockcroft on May 31, 2011, 06:33:44 PM
Some dactylorhiza volunteers are starting to bloom.  The shorter pink hybrids always flower first.  D. fuchsii hybrids are not yet showing color.  Since all the dactylorhiza "mix it up" in the garden, I just call them all hybrids.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on May 31, 2011, 07:25:29 PM
Those are lovely, Claire.

I agree with you, the capacity of these orchids to "mix it up" as you put it means that it is much safer to call them all hybrids... and very beautiful they all are, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Anthony Darby on May 31, 2011, 09:56:09 PM
What do you mean by 'volunteers' Claire?
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Claire Cockcroft on June 01, 2011, 12:24:37 AM
Volunteers?  I mean the dactylorhizas seed themselves around.

I started out with four small white/pink orchids and five D. fuchsii 'Bressingham Bonus'.  After a couple of years, I added one D. maculata and one D. majalis.  All of these have mixed together, popping up new combinations all over the garden.  I assume that all the shredded evergreen branches that I get from a tree trimming firm has sparked some fungal activity that these orchids love.

It's interesting that leaf forms range from all-over spots to pure green leaves.  Flower colors range from almost pure white to dark mauve-y purple, with markings pale pink to very dark magenta.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: fredg on June 02, 2011, 08:01:08 PM
I grow this in the lagoons with my carnivorous plants.
It has more blush pink in it than last year.

Eleorchis japonica alba
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on June 02, 2011, 08:06:11 PM
very nice Fred
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on June 03, 2011, 03:37:20 PM
A couple of self seeded dactylorhiza flowering in the garden now. I used to have a lot of different species flowering together and these started popping up all over the garden so they are just a mixture.
Title: Re: Ophrys and some others! 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on June 09, 2011, 06:17:42 PM
A few Dactylorhiza hybrids.
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