Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Cultivation => Cultivation Problems => Topic started by: mark smyth on March 07, 2011, 12:24:56 PM

Title: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: mark smyth on March 07, 2011, 12:24:56 PM
Yesterday I rescues some ?Cardamine quinquefolia from an old garden near my house. Can I grow them in full sun?

Most have purple leaves and flowers but some will be white flowered
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Paddy Tobin on March 07, 2011, 01:11:25 PM
Mark,

I grow it in semi-shade, under deciduous trees/shrubs though I don't see why it wouldn't do well in a more open position.

Paddy
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: mark smyth on March 07, 2011, 01:16:50 PM
I do have a semi-shade position beside the fence. No direct sun there until after 2pm but some sun through the gaps in the fence.
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: mark smyth on March 07, 2011, 01:21:25 PM
I need new plants for my peat bed. Could they grow there? No sun until after 3pm
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Paddy Tobin on March 07, 2011, 01:25:04 PM
Mark,

I don't think you need worry about cardamines not growing, the opposite is generally the case, they do too well and spread about with great ease. They certainly would not be the best thing to put over small spring bulbs as they would smother them.

Paddy
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Martin Baxendale on March 07, 2011, 01:40:40 PM
Mark, Cardamine quinquefolia has green leaves and lilac flowers. Do you mean Cardamine pratensis, the native cuckoo flower or lady's smock, which grows mostly in damp grassy areas?
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: mark smyth on March 07, 2011, 03:59:47 PM
here are two photos
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Martin Baxendale on March 07, 2011, 04:23:09 PM
Okay, well that looks like quinquefolia. Haven't seen a white flowered form before, and haven't heard of a purple-leaved form either. Be interesting to see how the leaves develop, and what they both look like in flower. As Paddy says, quinquefolia will grow anywhere. I'd be wary of putting it in anything but a pot or a very enclosed bed where it can't escape to smother small plants and bulbs.

I planted it in my garden about 10 years ago from one potful from Robin White, and it's taking over the whole bloody garden, Can't get rid of it. Small bulbs certainly struggle to get their leaves up above its foliage, and it grows at the same time as the spring bulbs then dies down with them. It can be a real pain!!! I'll have to completely remake large areas to eradicate it.
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Martin Baxendale on March 07, 2011, 04:26:45 PM
Unless it's a different species, maybe the less invasive pentaphyllos, which has never become a  problem here.
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Martin Baxendale on March 07, 2011, 04:39:26 PM
Mark, my quinquefolia are in full flower with fully developed foliage. Just checked on my pentaphyllos and it's at the same stage as yours and looks more like yours than quinquefolia. I doubt you'd be further behind than me, so I think it's not quinquesfolia but pentphyllos or maybe heptaphylla. How far has it spread in the old garden? If it covers square yards or more then it's quinquefolia, if in smaller clumps then it's not.
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: mark smyth on March 07, 2011, 05:37:58 PM
Thanks for all the info. Once they open I'll take more photos.
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: PDJ on March 07, 2011, 06:50:10 PM
Probably best not planted in the garden, a real menace.  I find it even thrives on glyphosate!
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: mark smyth on March 07, 2011, 07:38:59 PM
 :( I was hoping to have something nice for post snowdrop season. I need to get Corydalis and Erythroniums ... and ... and ...
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: mark smyth on March 23, 2011, 11:34:40 AM
The white one is now open and the leaves are green. Which Cardamine is it?
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Martin Baxendale on March 23, 2011, 11:47:31 AM
The white one looks like Cardamine heptaphylla. The lilac one could be a dark-flowered form of heptaphylla or it could be pentaphyllos. Both can spread quite widely in the garden but nowhere near as invasive as quinquefolia.
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: mark smyth on March 23, 2011, 12:19:20 PM
Thanks Martin. When the purple one unfurls its leaves I'll post another photo
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Hoy on March 23, 2011, 05:41:18 PM
Here are some of my Cardamines to compare. These are from last year. The spring isn't so advanced here yet.
-pentaphyllos:
[attachthumb=1]


-enneaphylla
[attachthumb=2]


-heptaphylla  
[attachthumb=3]    [attachthumb=4]


-waldsteinii
[attachthumb=5]
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 23, 2011, 09:09:50 PM
These would seem to be quite closely related to this whose name escapes me for the moment. It seeds about but is lovely under trees
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Brian Ellis on March 23, 2011, 10:34:21 PM
Would it be a pachyphragma Lesley?
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Houseslippers on March 23, 2011, 11:51:51 PM
Yes, that's Pachyphragma macrophylla, a good plant I think, a little coarse but with very good clean evergreen foliage, suitable for dry shade. Unaccountably quite rare in gardens. Mine makes a slowly spreading low carpet and very very occasionally seeds itself about.
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Maggi Young on March 23, 2011, 11:54:51 PM
 Pachyphragma  macrophyllum, I think... isn't this one of those plants with "odd" endings ?
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 24, 2011, 04:48:56 AM
Yes, that's it all right, thanks. and yes, macrophyllum, because of the male or neutral Greek ending ma, as in Arisaema (candidissimum), Onosma (nanum) et al.
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Houseslippers on March 24, 2011, 09:40:31 AM
Oh dear, I really must remember to check my plant names before posting. I've been corrected on other forums (fora?? gulp) before and I agree completely that it is very important to get these things right. It's a result of doing Latin at school - I tend to make wrong assumptions when languages start getting mixed up.
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Maggi Young on March 24, 2011, 10:36:18 AM
Don't stress about it Tony, we all do it from time to time.
As a lousy typist I find I go into a daft auto-pilot mode on the pc and all sorts of rubbish appears...... it's not the end of the world! ;)
 
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Stephenb on March 24, 2011, 12:12:24 PM
A favourite here too, very early in to flower (only 2-3 weeks to go, difficult to believe as the blizzard rages) and quite tasty too (as are some of the Cardamines)... ;)
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Martin Baxendale on March 24, 2011, 01:18:07 PM
A favourite here too, very early in to flower (only 2-3 weeks to go, difficult to believe as the blizzard rages) and quite tasty too (as are some of the Cardamines)... ;)

I can EAT my Cardamine quinquefolia?! Yes!!!! Revenge is mine, you invasive - if rather pretty - bloody weed!!
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Stephenb on March 24, 2011, 01:26:06 PM
 :)  Beware (if it's not too late) that this one is deadly, from memory, one of the stronger tasting ones, so your revenge may well backfire. Let us know whether we can add this one to the "if you can't beat it, eat it" family....
Title: Re: Cardamine quinquefolia
Post by: Gail on March 26, 2011, 06:46:08 PM
Cardamine quinquefolia has quite a bland taste, unlike C. pentaphyllos which is unpleasantly bitter.  Some people apparently eat the lady's smock (C. pratensis) but that has a medicinal taste, somewhat like germolene to my mind.  The one I prefer to eat is the pesky weed C. hirsuta (hairy bittercress) which despite the unappealing common name has a pleasant flavour like culinary cress.
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