Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Darren on March 05, 2011, 01:16:43 PM
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I looked for a thread about bulb frames but was surprisingly unsuccessful. I find mine works really well so I'm going to show some pics! And hope you will do likewise if you grow in frames.
The frame is basically a big raised bed made from tanalised timber. On top I constructed a frame to support sheets of polycarbonate on the top during summer and during winter. The frame is open to the sides (meshed to keep out beasties) all year round. The top comes off from early March until late May, then again from early September until November.
The response of many frits, tulips and aril Iris to frame culture has been amazing. There are also lots of Crocus, Sternbergia and Cyclamens graecum and mirabile, assorted Corydalis, Anemone, Ornithogalum, Muscari and Bellevalia, Acis. Even Tropaeolum tricolor and Ranunculus asiaticus have survived the last two winters.
The first pic shows the frame with the cover in place - I removed it this morning until summer - see second pic. Some taller frits were starting to touch the cover and would have been deformed if I'd left it longer.
The next couple of pics show the scene last autumn with Cyclamen graecum, Sternbergia sicula and leaves developing on onco Iris. The last pic is a preview of what is to come - Fritillaria davisii taken in this frame last spring (I struggle to flower this in a pot but it does great out here!) . I will post more pictures as things flower.
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Wow, Darren, thanks for starting this thread..... surely there will be plenty inspired by the sight of your very productive frames? 8)
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Darren:
Thanks, great looking.
Are the bulbs potted or growing freely in the ground.
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Thanks to you both. :D
Arnold - they are technically growing in the ground but are separated into groupings by putting the bulbs in plastic baskets. Soil is basically a layer of old bulb potting compost from bulb repotting, over a layer of rubble for drainage. Exceptions are - some Crocus which are plunged in small pots to keep them identifiable, separate and to make them easy to remove if I feel they are 'going back' and could do with fresh compost around them. They root out through the bottom of the pots and seem to like the extra root run and the coolness resulting from being grown in the frame. Also the big Corydails integra is now in a pot for the moment. It used to be grown just planted in the frame but I put the tubers in a pot last time I refreshed the frame in summer 2009 as I thought they might make a good show exhibit the following spring. I was right - see the Northumberland Show 2010 thread :D Same story with one of the Cyclamen graecum (which I exhibited successfully at the Discussion Weekend in 2009). Both will be returned to the open soil at the next rebuild of the frame - probably 2012.
I do need to be careful not to plant anything that flowers early at the end of the frame nearest the fence as this end is in the shadow of the fence until about April so early flowering plants would easily etiolate.
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What an interesting thread Darren, good idea. What depth of 'top soil' have you over the rubble?
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Most interesting Darren. Do you reckon you will have to replace the compost or do you plan to just add fertilizer to it?
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Hi,
I estimate there is about 25cm of soil above the rubble. I do dig the whole thing out down to rubble level about every 3rd year and replace the soil with the 'waste' from the bulb repotting. This is interesting in itself as I am always surprised by things that I have thought tender that occasionally appear in this frame as 'strays' and then do perfectly well or even better than they did in pots. The fact that the soil has been used in pots already and is (theoretically) exhausted has never caused any problems - the free root run makes up for it.
I add a scatter of Growmore around now when things are getting going, and then a scatter of potash in April.
One word of warning - never plant Arums in a bulb frame unless it is very big or you aim for a monoculture - they like the conditions TOO much... Mine were evicted at the last emptying.
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The soil in my bulb frame (like Darren's, used bulb potting compost) has remained untouched for at least 12 years, though I do feed quite heavily when plants are in growth. Sternbergias do very well, some crocus less well. Reticulate Iris thrive; too much so - they have now been removed. There are lots of seedlings & strays from the used potting compost which one of these days I might get around to doing something about.
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I'm impressed Darren! Do you have any details on timber sizes used?
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Gerry, when you say you feed regularly, do you use granulated feed or liquid? I've got a bulb bed out in the open that I planted last autumn, so I'm asking because I've been wondering what to do about feeding. Its gravel covered and raised so will behave much like the bulb frame in many respects.
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Gerry, when you say you feed regularly, do you use granulated feed or liquid? I've got a bulb bed out in the open that I planted last autumn, so I'm asking because I've been wondering what to do about feeding. Its gravel covered and raised so will behave much like the bulb frame in many respects.
Chris - I have used pelleted fertiliser (Vitax Q4) but mostly I use liquid feed, weekly at half strength. In the past I have used Phostrogen or Tomorite, now I use Chempak no.3. I don't think it makes much difference - all have a fairly high potash content.
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Cor Gerry - Reticulate Iris thrive? I must try that as I can't grow them out in the garden no matter where I try them. I could live with them being weeds in the frame ;D
David - I could measure up but the bases were not built by me. I just constructed the frame arrangement on the top. Susan had them constructed by a local garden building/furniture maker in 2004 to our outer dimensions. They are basically larger adapted versions of the big troughs they sell to local councils for bedding displays in town centres.
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I'd be interested in seeing the compositions of the fertilizers that folks use. I think the N-P-K values in the USA are calculated in some less straight-forward way than in the EU, but they still would give me a rough idea. I am partial to soluble fertilizers, particularly N-P-K 20-10-20 (in the U.S. system) with micronutrients. The stuff I use is called "Jack's Professional Peatlite" but I use it for everything, especially bulbs grown in my gritty bulb mix. This probably approximates the used potting mixtures mentioned above.
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David - I could measure up but the bases were not built by me. I just constructed the frame arrangement on the top. Susan had them constructed by a local garden building/furniture maker in 2004 to our outer dimensions. They are basically larger adapted versions of the big troughs they sell to local councils for bedding displays in town centres.
Darren, I'm just interested in the timber you used for the top frame arrangement.
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I'd be interested in seeing the compositions of the fertilizers that folks use. I think the N-P-K values in the USA are calculated in some less straight-forward way than in the EU, but they still would give me a rough idea. I am partial to soluble fertilizers, particularly N-P-K 20-10-20 (in the U.S. system) with micronutrients. The stuff I use is called "Jack's Professional Peatlite" but I use it for everything, especially bulbs grown in my gritty bulb mix. This probably approximates the used potting mixtures mentioned above.
Jim - I posted on the composition of some fertilisers available in the UK here:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1967.15
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I have a bulb frame already some decades in my garden. Its purpose is primarily to keep the bulbs quite dry in summer and rather dry in winter.
Corydalis popovii is one of the most eye-catching- and fast growing bulb in my frame.
Iris histrioides loves the sunny, dry place in the bulb frame.
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Great Darren and thanks for sharing these pictures and thoughts with us. It has reinforced my idea to convert one of my pot frames into a bulb frame such as yours. I have seen similar at Alan Edwards and the Wallis's in the distant past. I'm not so handy with woodwork though ... do you and Susan fancy a holiday in sunny Norfolk? :)
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There are lattice baskets available that are used by folks who grow plants in ponds. Good for preventing the bulbs from wandering and yet you can pull up the pot to inspect the bulbs.
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Hi,
can you show us a picture of the lattice basket, please? I wonder if we can get them here. I have been looking for something like that but all I can find is pond baskets. :)
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Hi,
can you show us a picture of the lattice basket, please? I wonder if we can get them here. I have been looking for something like that but all I can find is pond baskets. :)
Maren - Pond baskets are ideal. Most garden centres have them in a range of sizes. I prefer them with a rather open mesh but I know people who use the ones with very small mesh.
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Marren:
At work and limited internet access. I'll dig up some images when I get home.
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Marren:
Here's a look at some.
http://www.coastalpond.com/plant-accessories-plant-baskets-c-12_71.html?zenid=a28e73fa4f19adf706dcce60ee5079f6
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Thank you for the picture link, Arnold, very kind of you. Of course, now that I see the picture I know what it is.
Regards from Maren (with one 'r')
And thanks to Gerry, too.
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Hi,
can you show us a picture of the lattice basket, please? I wonder if we can get them here. I have been looking for something like that but all I can find is pond baskets. :)
Maren - Pond baskets are ideal. Most garden centres have them in a range of sizes. I prefer them with a rather open mesh but I know people who use the ones with very small mesh.
We prefer the ones with smaller mesh grid because of the capacity of some bulbs to make their escape through larger grids!
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Often, the holes on the bottom of the basket are blocked, and need drilling out. Also, I put a layer of small gravel in the bottom, to make sure no water stays too long at the roots.
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Hi,
can you show us a picture of the lattice basket, please? I wonder if we can get them here. I have been looking for something like that but all I can find is pond baskets. :)
Maren - Pond baskets are ideal. Most garden centres have them in a range of sizes. I prefer them with a rather open mesh but I know people who use the ones with very small mesh.
We prefer the ones with smaller mesh grid because of the capacity of some bulbs to make their escape through larger grids!
In my experience "some bulbs" are tulips. I've never had problems with any others ( not even Erythroniums which like to descend when left to their own devices).
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Cor, this thread has been busy since I last looked!
Your frame looks great Franz. I am going to put my Corydalis popovii out in mine this summer - schanginii does well in the frame and my popovii do very poorly in a pot.
David - I will put some more pictures and details of the top assembly together when I'm next home in daylight...
I can confirm that I use pond baskets also. Finding nice square ones which don't taper too much toward the bottom was not easy.
Tony - never been to Norfolk! Thanks for the flattery but Susan would happily tell you that I am rubbish at DIY. I guess with important things (i.e. plant related) I take more care than I do with stuff around the house ;)
The design of the top has had to be altered once as I found that polycarbonate flexed enough in high winds to wriggle its way out of the frame. No such problem since I changed the design.
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This is my bulb frame made many years ago. The base, 60 cm high, is constructed of concrete blocks - my handiwork (as revealed by a measure of subsidence at the far end. The timber & polycarbonate top was made by a local handyman; since the top never comes off, all watering is done by hand. The mesh frames on the front are to keep out cats & similar vermin; they can be replaced by glass or plastic in really bad weather.
The frame is divided into compartments, only one of which is currently filled with compost (25 cm over 30 cm of rubble) & used for growing Sternbergias & a few crocus. The remaining compartments are filled with sharp sand & used to plunge pots. They also seem to accumulate junk.
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Cor, I've never thought about putting bulbs into pond baskets in the garden to keep them together before, I shall have to try this out. Thanks for the details Gerry....
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I keep my more precious bulbs in place in the opposit way. I put a basket on top of them. This is to keep mice out and applies to planting in the open ground. It is nearly a necessity when growing Corydalis cultivars. One corm: 15x15cm of metal net 5mm opening or so. Bend down 5cm all around. Put the resulting basket upside down on top of the corm WELL BELOW SOIL SURFACE.
This will keep mice out and corm in. 4 corms means 20x20cm and 5cm bend down. I did this originally to keep the mice out but the side effect is that I always find my bulbs again. If the top is 2 cm down, the 5cm edge will keep my mice at bay. If the top comes up in soil level, the plant will try to grow underneath and that does not work too well. I do this opn all smaller bulbs/corms except amaryllidaceae. since these are not palatable to mice.
Cheers
Göte
Still 20cm of snow but the day mean temperature is creeping up above zero C°.
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That too is an interesting idea, Gote. I shouldn't say this, but so far I've had no trouble with mice pinching my bulbs either in pots or in the garden. And we do have the little critters all over the place. Maybe they just get too many peanuts stolen from the bird feeders to bother digging. But I'll bear that in mind just in case!
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I grow all my bulbs and plants in greenhouses and frames . Each greenhouse has frames built around the sides and ends. These are made of building blocks with the centre area filled with sand and an aluminium frame placed on top. The pots are all clay plunged in the sand. Some are in sun and others in complete shade.
These frames have two problems. First in both photographs a blue cord can be seen. This is attached to a brick at either end and is looped over the top of the frame to stop them blowing away,crude but effective. Secondly even though all the frames,I have sixty feet of them, are built on paving slabs we get so much rain that a lot of the time they are too wet. Some of the frames I have never watered in fifteen years. This year I am raising some of them of the ground to help keep them drier.
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Franz C. popovii is my alltime favourite. We have tried it but I think it needs more light than we could give it, it just straggled all over the edge of the pot. :'(
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Shelagh, You are right. C. popvii loves the sun!
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Franz C. popovii is my alltime favourite. We have tried it but I think it needs more light than we could give it, it just straggled all over the edge of the pot. :'(
Shelagh, try delaying it into growth, store the tuber in a paper bag somewhere cool and dry, pot up in December or even January if it does not start its self into growth first. When it emerges the days will be longer. It likes lots of water once it is in growth.
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I said when I started this thread that I would post pictures as things flower, here is the first batch.
I also promised David N that I would give some assembly information for the 'superstructure' - I have taken some pictures David and just need to assemble some text!
Here are some plant pictures - all growing in the soil or in baskets to give a free root-run (not in plunged pots) which is really my definition of a 'bulb frame'.
An unknown frit - ID please? I think the label is buried with the bulbs. This is tall (50cm) and sticks out the top of the frame.
Frit Uva-vulpis. The rather squinny garden centre form.
A precocious Bellevalia pycnantha with the promise of many more to come - see the bottom of the picture.
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Could the unknown Frit be meleagroides?
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Darren - my guess for the unknown frit is one of the F. montana group. The flower colour is somewhat similar to that of F. ruthenica but the upper leaves do not show the twisting, tendril-like form characteristic of that species. We really need to see inside the flower - stigma & nectaries. Whatever it is, it is very handsome & well worth growing.
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Frit ruthenica was my first thought but as it is not a crocus - what do I know ;D
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Thank you all for those views - I will try to take a pic of the inside of the flower. It is a nice one and a warm red colour. Set loads of seed last year too, most of which is coming up around the parents.
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Thank you all for those views - I will try to take a pic of the inside of the flower. It is a nice one and a warm red colour. Set loads of seed last year too, most of which is coming up around the parents.
Darren - If your plant is F. ruthenica, the upper leaves will look as in this picture. However, I think it is unlikely to be this species which is quite rare in cultivation, at least in the in the UK. Most plants grown under this name turn out to be members of the F. montana group which is what I think yours probably is.
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Hi Gerry,
Thank you for that. I have attached some clearer pictures (the joy of the clocks changing - getting home whilst the sun is still up). From your illustration I'd say it isn't ruthenica but it does make me think that the plants I do have labelled as ruthenica are genuine (bulbs came from Ron McBeath). Sadly the real 'ruthenica' looks sorry for itself this year - the shoots stopped growing at 10cm and the flowers aborted so no pics available.
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Darren - the inside of your flower is consistent with it being a member of the F. montana group (includes F. montana, F. tenella, F. nigra & F. orientalis hort).
See here (http://www.fritillariaicones.com/icones/icones_m.html) for a comparison.
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Thank you for that Gerry. :)
It fits with some evidence I found yesterday - an old list of Rannveig Wallis's which has a tick next to F montana, suggesting I may have ordered it from her that season.
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Some more flowers open today in the frame. An Iris willmottiana hybrid and 3 small species tulips - possibly the first two are urumiensis and tarda but your views on all 3 are sought. You will, by now, have realised that burying the labels and forgetting to take note of what I planted are specialities of mine.... ;)
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Fritillaria hermonis amana (should do OK in the open garden but I can protect it from slugs in the frame..)
Fritillaria davisii
Bongardia chrysogonum