Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: bulborum on February 08, 2011, 10:00:32 PM
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Hello Mark
I got a question from the PBS
maybe you know the answer
Roland
Hey guys
A buddy of mine shared some Allium seeds with me, and we found it on the internet, showing one single reference, and my seeds came from that single plant we found. The label is Allium toojayashii.
I'd love more information about this species, and if I have it spelled wrong, correct me please.
Best, Jude
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A buddy of mine shared some Allium seeds with me, and we found it on the internet, showing one single reference, and my seeds came from that single plant we found. The label is Allium toojayashii.
I'd love more information about this species, and if I have it spelled wrong, correct me please.
Best, Jude
This is probably a name scramble of Allium togashii (published in Flora of Japan as A. togasii). Then it would remain to be seen whether the plant is true to name.
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Thanks Mark
I emailed your answer to jude
Roland
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Thanks Mark
I emailed your answer to jude
Roland
You're welcome Roland. Saw the same query posted by Jude on PBS, and answered there too. :D
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This is probably a name scramble of Allium togashii (published in Flora of Japan as A. togasii). Then it would remain to be seen whether the plant is true to name.
Hi Mark,
We have this one flowering now!
Sorry, it's a bit floppy from being in the shade house
cheers
fermi
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Flowering already the whole winter
and difficult to find in the nature the first time
you overlook him easy in-between the grass
not spectacular but well worth growing
thanks to the cold it flowers here 4 months
Allium chamaemoly collections from Corsica and Sicily
First picture is from Sicily LN
last picture from the plants I found growing next to it on Corsica
Acis roseum (leaves) and Scilla autumnalis (seedpot and leaves)
Roland
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Hi all Allium friends!
How about to identify some unidentified Allium species?
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/pictures/item/41316.html
For example this one from Greece:
(http://www.plantarium.ru/dat/img/1/19/19263.jpg) (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/19263.html)
Allium sp. (http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/41316.html) at the Plantarium database (http://www.plantarium.ru/)
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Hi all Allium friends!
How about to identify some unidentified Allium species?
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/pictures/item/41316.html <---this link requires an account, username, and password
For example this one from Greece:
Hello Yuri, always good to find another Allium fan. I am very familiar with the plantarium.ru site; many pages of excellent photos of Alliums and other plants. Here is an alternate link to that site that does not require an account (also google translate should be built in).
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/item/41315.html
On your photo link, click link at bottom to show 8 photos
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/19263.html
One of those links at the bottom goes to discussion on the identity of this allium:
http://forum.plantarium.ru/viewtopic.php?id=5895
Although I do not believe it is either A. commutatum or obtusifolium as suggested in the blog. Not sure what it is, I'll have to do some research to see if I can apply an identification. It certainly is a lovely allium, I really like the bright pink pedicels.
For Greek mountain flora, you can look here, although I wish they had a search function:
http://www.greekmountainflora.info/
If you need any winter reading on Allium, check out the previous topics on SRGC:
Allium 2010: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.0
Allium 2009: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3028.0
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Hello Yuri
Nice site but you have to login
and for the inscription you have to type in cyrilice
You win Mark
you where faster ;D
Roland
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Hi Mark,
We have this one flowering now!
Sorry, it's a bit floppy from being in the shade house
cheers
fermi
Thanks Fermi for showing pics, it is a modest little onion, one that I grew in 2 forms, one dwarfer than the other and flowering earlier (mid summer) compared to the taller one that bloomed later (late summer). I used to have large beds of it, but lost much of it due to aggressive weeds, but still have plants that blooms each year... must make a point of building up stock again. It does do best in full sun, so it might become lax as you suggest, in a shade house.
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Sorry, being registered at Plantarium I give you a link that need registration.
Here is another way to see only unidentified photos:
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/view/images/own/item/41316.html
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can somebody give me some information about germination requirements of allium acuminatum and allium akaka .Is cold treatment required and for how long?
I received the seeds very late.No more frosts here.
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I can't help you with that seed info, John, I'm afraid, but I was cheered to see the Allium season starting here in Aberdeen with the first appearance of shoots above ground.
Most of these are of new bulbs I got last October (from the sale of the Connoisseur Collection Bulbs that Luit van Delft brought to the SRGC Discussion Weekend) and I have a sneaking suspicion that we planted them without any labels :-\ ::) :-X They are cultivars rather than species for the most part so we may get away with it! :-X
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Here are Allium rothii and Allium libanii, from middle east, pure geophyts that would need a bit more sun here...
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Here are Allium rothii and Allium libanii, from middle east, pure geophyts that would need a bit more sun here...
Libanii is well growing with me in greenhouse here and set good seeds. A. rothii I never had. Not a "fresh" picture attached. Now I grow it in pots.
Janis
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very nice plants Janis.
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Allium karataviense henrikii looks a bit menacing for it's neighbours even before it is open... ;D
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not a good picture, but this morning It surprised me to see this Allium telavivense, from my friend Miriam Sason, growing outdoors all the year!. I can say this species is totaly hardy
What a gonderful Allium you poseted, specially to me this A. rothii, fantastic piecture Fred.
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two different colour forms of
Allium akaka
this presents a problem for me in cultivation in that the leaves and flowers are on a stem and in the wild it is completely stemless and sits on the ground
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very small and long flowering, Allium hierochuntinum, from Israel and Jordan, near the dead sea
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Some of you the lot of you are growing amazing onions! Here are a few fun bits from the garden today.
The first is an album seedling from what I believe to be A. rosenbachianum. Then a new giant, World Cup, I added last Autumn, along with A. aflatuense (I hope the true one!), then we have a cute hybrid that showed up, plus a comparison shot of the parents and hybrid flowers. The last is a newer hybrid I added last Autumn, 'Spider', luckily in a pot, as it is severely virused! Pity, it is rather nice.
A. rosenbachianum album
A. World Cup
A. aflatuense
A. hollandicum x christofii (3 shots)
A. Spider
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Wonderful Alliums everyone!
Some Alliums flowering here now:
Allium akaka
Allium litvinovii
Allium nevskianum
Allium platycaule
and an Allium which I bought together with A. platycaule. Could it be A. akaka too?
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You have a lovely collection Wim, Did you show this akaka last year? Platycaule looks as if it is very happy :)
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Thanks Peter,
I showed that A. akaka last year too: you can see that here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg151691#msg151691.
A. platycaule multiplies very easily, last year I had only one flower.
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Allium jesdianum ssp. angustitepalum
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Some Allium shoots in the garden, which had been growing well and making promising buds, have suddenly collapsed. There seems to be one or two areas on the stem where the tissues have lost substance,- to begin with they just soften and begin to bend but then the bent areas collapse to thin and discoloured mush.... is this a disease or a result of extreme temperature changes (which we have had lately) ?? ???
Click the photos to enlarge them.....
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I've had a suggestion by email that the problem with my Allium stems is caused by a fungus.
I wonder why there is no visible sign of that before the stems actually begin to rot, some time after collapse? ???
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Someone else has an allium question... and ID this time.....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7278.0
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may be sun ???? or some small animal ???
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Maggi, could it have been weather-induced? I have experienced this type of stem/bud collapse in the past; it used to happen more so when I lived in the milder Seattle Washington area. Plants would get tender and pumped up with water under consistently mild conditions, their softened growth not hardened off by stronger sunlight and dryness, and then on a warm or hot sunny day plants would flag, and stems could collapse similar to what you show. I've had less of a problem with that here in New England, where weather conditions are not as "soft".
There is also the possibility that some sort of sucking insect has been at work on the stems.
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Hi, Fred and McMark.... there is no signe of insect or animal damage. We have had very good, warm and sunny weather recently which has made a lot of lush growth.
The stems that have been affected, in two different cultivars...... and don't ask which because Ian didn't label them when he planted them for me and I have no recollection :'( ......
have suffered the thinning and collapse in sections just above the level of the surrounding vegetation.
Our warm weather has changed in the last while to some frosts and much colder days with quite strong winds...... so it may be the stress of the softish stems meeting the cold wind...... poor things! :-\
Keeping a eye on others to see how they fare. :-X
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Plants would get tender and pumped up with water under consistently mild conditions, their softened growth not hardened off by stronger sunlight and dryness, and then on a warm or hot sunny day plants would flag,
Mark,
Maggi is talking about Aberdeen, y'know!
;D ;D ;D
Actually we had lovely weather in Aberdeen as well as the rest of Europe - a bit of a waste of space carrying the heavy jumpers all the way over here!
cheers
fermi (still in Coimbra)
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(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i76/arykana/2011/th_bolgr.jpg) (http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i76/arykana/2011/?action=view¤t=bolgr.jpg)
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I am desperate waiting for a few mm water
in two months just one day with a little rain :o
just garlic loves this it seems
I never had such nice garlics 8)
Arykana is it Nectaroscordum bulgaricum ??
or what is the name nowadays
Roland
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yes, this is the bulgaricum
I just started to collect alliums - not so succesfull, cannot get seeds
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I will have a few Allium seeds soon Erica, I will put them on a thread of spare bulbs and seeds.
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Arykana is it Nectaroscordum bulgaricum ??
or what is the name nowadays
Roland
Here you will find out more about the naming of this moment ;)
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1315.msg202023#msg202023 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1315.msg202023#msg202023)
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That's a lovely Allium, Erica.
Here Allium oreophyllum 'Agalik's Giant' is in flower now.
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Hello Luit
It would not wonder me
if they change the name again :'(
for me it is not an Allium
I have never seen an Allium without bees
this one is just visited by bumblebees :o
Roland
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Hello Luit
It would not wonder me
if they change the name again :'(
for me it is not an Allium
I have never seen an Allium without bees
this one is just visited by bumblebees :o
Roland
Roland, wait and see ::) :-X
Did you believe that taxonomists go outside to observe the flowers and how they grow? ???
May be I did once, but that is very many years ago :-\ ;)
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Maybe this is the reason
they make so many mistakes ;D
Roland
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It is said that taxonamists are either chemists or gardeners
but very rarely both
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I don't believe they are gardeners
It would be good if they would have
a few times a year black fingers
like Japanese directors
they work also at the workplace sometimes
just to stay in the real world
I always can use some volunteers ;D
and there always plants to determinate :)
after weeding ;D
Roland
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About allium oreophyllum
Can someboby tell me why the bulbs made plenty(really plenty) of small bulblets instead of flowers this year.They were fed every year with a fertiliser with a high potash content and the bulbs have plenty of space.
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Planting depth may contribute to offsets vs flowering. I've seen the need to plant deeper with some bulbs like Frits and Crocus.
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Can you believe it has taken us this long to be brave enough to try Allium prattii ACE 2394 outside? It has wintered just fine and we now have back-ups in separate pots.
Allium species - cw Gang-ho-ba, Lijang, China, 3450m to 70cm, in screes - id'ed by Afloden on SRGC as prattii.
johnw
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Hi John,
If we're talking about the plant near the center with the white stripe down the center of the leaves, I'd say the ID is Allium ovalifolium var. leuconeurum. What color are the flowers? In ovalifolium there are white to pinkish white, whereas in prattii they are pink to red-purple. The leaves of A. prattii can be variable (per the description in Flora of China), but most often they are long blade-shaped leaves, see: http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=87653&flora_id=800
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027521
In my plant, which I had from Chen Yi (misidentified), the flowers are deep red. Both species have been perfectly hardy outside since I got them about 10 years ago.
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Wonderful Alliums everyone!
Some Alliums flowering here now:
Allium akaka
Allium litvinovii
Allium nevskianum
Allium platycaule
and an Allium which I bought together with A. platycaule. Could it be A. akaka too?
Wim, your unidentified allium looks like a pale small-flowered form of A. karataviense, I don't think it is A. akaka. I grew a number of forms of A. karataviense from various collections sent to me by Arnis Seisums, and one was a very pale small-flowered plant that looks very similar to your plant.
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very small and long flowering, Allium hierochuntinum, from Israel and Jordan, near the dead sea
Fred, exquisite photo of Allium hierochuntinum! Thanks also for showing us more middle eastern treasures like A. rothii and A. libanii, I have lusted for A. rothii for decades. And it is good to show the true A. libanii, as it appears frequently in the seed exchanges but it is always the grand usurper of allium species; A. senescens. And Rafa showed Allium tel-avivense, another excellent middle eastern species that probably can't be grown here :'(
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Hi John,
If we're talking about the plant near the center with the white stripe down the center of the leaves, I'd say the ID is Allium ovalifolium var. leuconeurum. What color are the flowers? In ovalifolium there are white to pinkish white, whereas in prattii they are pink to red-purple. The leaves of A. prattii can be variable (per the description in Flora of China), but most often they are long blade-shaped leaves, see: http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=87653&flora_id=800
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027521
In my plant, which I had from Chen Yi (misidentified), the flowers are deep red. Both species have been perfectly hardy outside since I got them about 10 years ago.
Mark - Yes the centre one with the striped leaves. It certainly does not look like prattiii. Here is an old photo.
johnw
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Oh yes, then you most certainly have Allium ovalifolium var. leuconeurum; love the pink stamens.
Interestingly, when I received a few bulbs of what was identified as A. aciphyllum from Chen Yi, the dang thing resulted in three separate species; A. ovalifolium var. ovalifolium, Allium ovalifolium var. leuconeurum (which I have since lost), and the red Allium prattii. I'm glad that I still have the first and last of those three. Last year I separated them, and finally have more of them coming along... I find this group of Chinese Alliums to be rather slow growing and for some reason the seed rarely germinates for me.
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Oh yes, then you most certainly have Allium ovalifolium var. leuconeurum; love the pink stamens.
Interestingly, when I received a few bulbs of what was identified as A. aciphyllum from Chen Yi, the dang thing resulted in three separate species; A. ovalifolium var. ovalifolium, Allium ovalifolium var. leuconeurum (which I have since lost), and the red Allium prattii. I'm glad that I still have the first and last of those three. Last year I separated them, and finally have more of them coming along... I find this group of Chinese Alliums to be rather slow growing and for some reason the seed rarely germinates for me.
Many thanks Mark. If someone is going to the States in the autumn I will send along a bulb to post. No seeds here either on the ACE Alliums.
johnw
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Many thanks Mark. If someone is going to the States in the autumn I will send along a bulb to post. No seeds here either on the ACE Alliums.
johnw
Sounds good. I do occasionally get seed on ovalifolium var. ovalifolium, and always get good seed set on A. listera (a finer relative of A. ovalifolium), but only one seedling in about 8 years with the latter species has ever appeared; not sure what the trick is to getting these to germinate.
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Allium ovalifolium (I dont know the subspecies) clumps up for me and self seeds. It has set seed every year for five years.
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Allium ovalifolium (I dont know the subspecies) clumps up for me and self seeds. It has set seed every year for five years.
Thanks Peter. But do the seeds germinate? I get good seed set on A. listera, but it almost never germinates. Someone sent me seed of A. ovalifolium last year, it has not germinated yet.
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Allium ovalifolium (I dont know the subspecies) clumps up for me and self seeds. It has set seed every year for five years.
Thanks Peter. But do the seeds germinate? I get good seed set on A. listera, but it almost never germinates. Someone sent me seed of A. ovalifolium last year, it has not germinated yet.
Yes there are seedlings around the clump Mark
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Hello,
I am new on this Forum and trying to find out how everything is working.
To start please excuse me when my english is not always correct. A long time ago I had english at school, but after that I only talk sometimes or read(on tv).
I come from the Netherlands and live on a farm in the village Creil.
We grow about 17 hectare of Tulips and in the winter we have about 2000000 tulips for cutflower al going to the flowerauction in Aalsmeer (Flora Holland)
Next to that we have started collecting allium for 25 years now, resulting in a collection of more then 350 varietys. About 20 years ago we also started to cross allium. At this moment we grow over 25 new allium, some of them are already on the marked ( Summer Drummer, Ping Pong, Pink Jewel, Spider) and others will be in the comming years (Hairy Friend, Pink Lady, Purple Mystery, Dark Eyes), and hopefully more to come…….
We show our allium every year on the weekly KAVB Flower Show, and this Forum was brought to our attention by Luit van Delft, who always uploads photos to this forum.
Last week we looked on a lot of pages about allium and saw very much photos of very beautiful alliums we never have seen before, We read a lot of comments an I think there is much to learn about allium for me here…….
Wietse Mellema
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Hello Wietse, it is very good to have you join the Forum.
I have read (in translation) http://www.wmel.nl/?pagina=2 .... about your nursery and growing history, which sound very interesting.
It will be good to learn more about your Allium cultivars and of course we hope you will find things of interest from the Allium lovers of the Forum.
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Welcome Wietse, I should be glad to hear and see your Alliums
Peter
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Hello Wietse, it is very good to have you join the Forum.
I have read (in translation) http://www.wmel.nl/?pagina=2 .... about your nursery and growing history, which sound very interesting.
It will be good to learn more about your Allium cultivars and of course we hope you will find things of interest from the Allium lovers of the Forum.
Thank you Maggi, I hope to learn a lot on this Forum, and ofcourse I like to tel/show (almost) everything I know about Allium. In the last few years I have made about 2000 Photos of allium (a lot you will find on my webpage http://www.wmel.nl/?pagina=3&tp=6 ). We are stil working on our website but it takes very much time, and as we do not have any permanent personal (in busy periods we work with students, poolish people and in the winter with 6-8 woman/wife's of other farmers in our village) It is not our most inportant work to update al the allium photos on our website. But if anyone wants to see a picture of a allium from my collection please ask, and I will see if I have one and put it on this Forum.
Welcome Wietse, I should be glad to hear and see your Alliums
Peter
Thank you Peter I will try to do the best I can
wietse
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Welkom Wietse!
Last week we looked on a lot of pages about allium and saw very much photos of very beautiful alliums we never have seen before, We read a lot of comments an I think there is much to learn about allium for me here…….
Wietse Mellema
I am glad that you did take a look at these pages, after I told you about the Forum :D ;)
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Hello Wietse, A warm welcome to the Forum. You'll find much of interest and enjoyment here, and many Dutch members as well.
I like the name of your Allium 'Hairy Friend.' Several of my friends could go by the same name. ;D
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Hello Wietse. I'm very interested in learning more about your hybrids and selections. You have posted lots of allium photos on your web site, which I have looked through. I am growing or have grown many plants under the same name; I'll contact you in a few days to a week by personal message to compare some notes. :)
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Hello,
Hello Wietse. I'm very interested in learning more about your hybrids and selections. You have posted lots of allium photos on your web site, which I have looked through. I am growing or have grown many plants under the same name; I'll contact you in a few days to a week by personal message to compare some notes. :)
I'm very much interested, I will wait for your mail, and in the mean time I post some photos made today. The box on the first picture is a mix of 12 varietys for sale on a marked, The other two are just pictures of our alliums today.
Thank you for your welkom L van Delft and Lesley Cox!
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What a great colour and form range in those cut blooms. They look really good en masse like that.
Are you having to water a lot just now, Wietse? We have had a lot of hot and windy weather which is drying the plants very fast.
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What a great colour and form range in those cut blooms. They look really good en masse like that.
Are you having to water a lot just now, Wietse? We have had a lot of hot and windy weather which is drying the plants very fast.
Goodmorning,
It has been very dry here for the last 2 months, We are now watering out tulips (and allium) fot the eighth time.
Normaly we get about 60 mm rain a month, but now we only had about 25 mm in 2 months.
It is not very hot here, and that is good for the bulbs, but a little more natural rain would be very welkom!
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A new species, Allium semenowii, floweing here for the first time this year.
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A new species, Allium semenowii, floweing here for the rist time this year.
That is a real beauty, very nice colour!
How high is this species growing?
I also looked on your web site, and I saw you are looking for some allium (seeds) or plants perhaps???
is there already seed from Allium semenowii, or plants??
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A new species, Allium semenowii, floweing here for the rist time this year.
Very nice Magnar, a species I have always wanted to grow! Allium semenovii is on Chris Chadwell's prospectus for his upcoming 2011 seed collecting expedition; I hope to secure seed of this rare and unusual beauty.
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That is a real beauty, very nice colour!
How high is this species growing?
I also looked on your web site, and I saw you are looking for some allium (seeds) or plants perhaps???
is there already seed from Allium semenowii, or plants??
Wietse, fantastic seeing the fields of Alliums rowed out. What's the tall very dark color Allium in your 013.jpg? Is it the hybrid with atropurpureum? On your own web site, I'm totally smitten with the mass plantings of Allium caesium forms!!!
Allium semenovii:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027530
A couple miscellaneous Allium photos, a couple views of A. scorzonerifolium (the type species has a few bulbils in the inflorescence), the gray leaves in the background are A. senescens v. glaucum 'Blue Eddy'. Then a photo of a chive bloom with dragonfly.
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Wietse, fantastic seeing the fields of Alliums rowed out. What's the tall very dark color Allium in your 013.jpg? Is it the hybrid with atropurpureum? On your own web site, I'm totally smitten with the mass plantings of Allium caesium forms!!!
Yes, It is a crossing of allium christopii x allium atropurpureum we made.
It's a very good increasing allium (7-10 ofsets)
I post some more pictures.........
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Just one more picture of the "garden" today.....
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Wietse: Welcome from me too! A friend in Belgium told me about your fantastic collection of Alliums a couple of years ago and I had intended to get in touch if I was in the Netherlands, but I haven’t been since… Thanks for all the pictures and I’ll be having a proper look at your web site soon!
Magnar: Superb Allium! Please add me to the waiting list…only equalled by Mark’s unusual looking A. scorzonerifolium…very nice!!
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Wmel and Stephen, I sure will be looking for seeds of A. semenovii. Will keep you on mind if I find any. :)
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Another Allium today : A. paradoxum var normale. It came from Ruksans.
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I show here a picture of three Allium flowers, which were shown at the Lisse Flowershow.
Older gardeners will probably recognize the one on the left side as Allium neapolitanum.
Good for cutting and without having the characteristic Allium scent.
When ordering A. neapolitanum nowadays there is a great possibility that you will receive bulbs of the one on the right side.
I was told that the bulbs of the left one are more yellowish.
It seems that the one on the right side somehow (seed?) unnoted appeared in stocks and was making more young bulbs, thus more rapidly propagating and subtly took over stocks (This seems to happen with many more bulbous or perennial plants?)
The one in the middle came into the trade from France? as Allium cowanii and has bigger flower heads.
I see in the RHS Plantfinder listing :
Allium neapolitanum
Allium neapolitanum Cowanii Group
Allium neapolitanum Grandiflorum
In the trade mostly Allium cowanii are offered, because growers are not sure about the naming.
You will find descriptions in catalogues like this:
A. cowanii….Starry pure white flws. (6-7)40
A. cowanii: Large heads of pure white flowers in May, 40 cms.
A. Cowanii Group: White flowers Apr-May, 40cm.
Grandiflorum….Flattened heads of white flws. (5-6)30
A.neapolitanum: dwarf species with white star-like flowers on stiff stems to 20cm
Finally I found in B. Mathew, Dwarf Bulbs, 1973:
Allium neapolitanum, stems usually about 20 – 30cm, with rather loose many-flowered umbels 5 – 7 cm in diameter, flowers very pure white 1.5 – 2 cm. in diameter with broad substantial perianth segments.
From the same author in The Bulbous Plants of Turkey, 1984 I read:
About 20 – 45 cm. tall, umbel 5 – 9 cm. diameter, hemispherical, many flowered.
Flowers large, up to 2 cm. diameter, white, cup-shaped or stellate……
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Magnar: I haven't managed to overwinter paradoxum normale here... :'(
Luit: Interesting, but again one I can't grow...
The picture shows a sweaty Allium altaicum (I think) spotted yesterday!
The flower scape fell over in a storm and I took the second picture which shows it has a strange wide "double" structure with a cleavage... what does all this mean?
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Good evening,
I post some pictures of (some) allium flowering now,
Some of them flowering with me for the first time, bought last summer from Janis Ruksans ( membranaceum, balansae)
The others I have already for more years now.
tuncelianum 1 2011.JPG
trautvetteranum 2 2011.JPG
membranaceum 1 2011.JPG
Howelii clokeyi 1 2011.JPG
fimbriatum purdyi 2 2011.JPG
dasyphyllum 1 2011.JPG
campanulatum 2 2011.JPG
balansae 2 2011.JPG
baisunense 1 2011.JPG
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Nice collection Wietse
Roland
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Great collection! I've not heard of most of these. Again, I must say I'm not seeing the differences between many of the purported species. I suspect much has to do with that which we don't see in a picture. A. baisunense has an interesting display.
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The picture shows a sweaty Allium altaicum (I think) spotted yesterday!
The flower scape fell over in a storm and I took the second picture which shows it has a strange wide "double" structure with a cleavage... what does all this mean?
Stephen, sometimes Alliums are so rude! :P ;D
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Wietse, I am astounded by your garden and collection of alliums shown. I hadn't yet commented on your general Allium garden view at: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6685.msg203810#msg203810
but ooh-la-la, it demonstrates just how amazing a garden can be using just alliums, and blooming so late when most spring bulbs are long but memories.
Jamie wrote "Again, I must say I'm not seeing the differences between many of the purported species". On the contrary, I believe the posting of 9 allium species is an excellent representation of species diversity, all are indeed good species, they also demonstrate some relationships. I think if each species could be fully observed with foliage and plant form, as we see in the first photo of Allium tuncelianum, we'd get a clearer impression of the uniqueness of the species.
I am glad to see American species so well grown the Netherlands, sadly most American species (of which there are over 100) are all but missing from the horticultural scene here, virtually none of them available commercially as bulbs, with the exception of Allium unifolium (sometimes masquerading under the ancient invalid name of Allium "murrayanum"), Allium cernuum is sold among perennial nurseries, and a few other species are available from seed sources. I would love to try A. howellii var. clokeyi, a lovely species with ample florets accentuated by lavender anthers... I like it! The form of A. campanulatum you show is particularly deep colored... folks, notice the tell-tale dark ring of color near the center of the flower. That dark ring is also present in the closely allied A. membranaceum which is also shown here, showing the relationship between these two fine western American species.
Back to A. tuncelianum, an engaging picture illustrating everything I love about Alliums; good foliage with bold presence, crazy curly coiling serpentine stems and snake-like buds; an utterly distinctive garden-worthy plant. Would like to grow this one.
I have grown A. trautvetterianum from bulbs sent to me by Arnis Seisums, and it flowered for a couple years but sadly just a memory now. I have particular Allium-lust for the giant airy headed types, like A. protensum and A. caspium. Regarding Allium baissunense, it used to be regarded as its own species but is currently defined as a subspecies of A. caspium, Allium caspium (Pall.) M. Bieb. subsp. baissunense (Lipsky) F.O. Khass. & R.M. Fritsch, 1994.
Oooh, A. dasyphyllum has it all going on, a fascinating species, love the red anthers... another one I seek to grow.
Lastly, regarding A. balansae, what a cute dwarf rock garden species, one of many desirable species from Turkey. I've grown a few similar looking species that were collected in Turkey, but there is such a raft of species in Turkey, that it is hard to accurately key them out.
Weitse, thanks for treating us to such oniony delights. For a look at more Allium species, a few that are rarely seen, stay tuned for Part 2 of my "For the love of Onions" feature article in the upcoming summer issue of the NARGS Rock Garden Quarterly. :)
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Just as follow-up on my comments above about the curious invalid name of Allium "murrayanum", please see this post that I made in the Allium 2010 topic: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg169884#msg169884
The final word on this is: there is no such thing as Allium "murrayanum", even though such a name is often seen in cultivation.
Wietse, I went back and took a look at your photo entry on Allium "murrayanum", and what I'm seeing in those photos is a form of Allium senescens, the ubiquitous imposter among allium species... sorry :-\
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Wietse, I went back and took a look at your photo entry on Allium "murrayanum", and what I'm seeing in those photos is a form of Allium senescens, the ubiquitous imposter among allium species... sorry :-\
We are buying allium everywere we can, and a lot of times we get a allium we already have under an other name, sometimes it is one we do not have and we assume the name is right....... also in the case os allium murrayanum ( sold by Dix export ). I am sure there are more allium on my website who turn out not being what I assumed the are, but please tel me if that is the case, because I want al name's to be good!
Most American allium is growing very good in Holland, ofcourse there is always an exception.
A. howellii var. clockeyi is one that is not growing very fast, but it is growing without any problems here, also from seed.
I am sure we can trade some seeds, because I'm sure you have a lot of allium that is not in my collection yet......and very beautiful to!
but please let me know which seed you like, because I do not keep seed from al allium ( to much work! )
The form of A. campanulatum you show is particularly deep colored... folks, notice the tell-tale dark ring of color near the center of the flower. That dark ring is also present in the closely allied A. membranaceum which is also shown here, showing the relationship between these two fine western American species.
I didn't know that, but now you tel me I see it.....
A. trautvetterianum is a very difficult allium. I bought one bulb about 10 years ago. It is not making ofsets, and only a few seeds. From that seeds I have now about 10 new flowering bulbs. ( 9 of them were just trautvetterianum, and one is a crossing with Allium caspium subsp. baissunense (see photo below) . My first trautvetteranum last only one year!
A. dasyphyllum I have now for almost 10 years, and it is still one bulb and never any seed was found on the plant. It is a real beauty, but very difficult ......
I read the NARGS Rock Garden Quarterly and I wil wait for your article!!!
tuncelianum 2011 10.JPG
trautvetteranum x baisunense 2011 1.JPG
giganteum x trautvetteranum 2011 1.JPG
regelii 2011 2.JPG
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The form of A. campanulatum you show is particularly deep colored... folks, notice the tell-tale dark ring of color near the center of the flower. That dark ring is also present in the closely allied A. membranaceum which is also shown here, showing the relationship between these two fine western American species.
I didn't know that, but now you tel me I see it.....
A. trautvetterianum is a very difficult allium. I bought one bulb about 10 years ago. It is not making ofsets, and only a few seeds. From that seeds I have now about 10 new flowering bulbs. ( 9 of them were just trautvetterianum, and one is a crossing with Allium caspium subsp. baissunense (see photo below) . My first trautvetteranum last only one year!
A. dasyphyllum I have now for almost 10 years, and it is still one bulb and never any seed was found on the plant. It is a real beauty, but very difficult ......
I read the NARGS Rock Garden Quarterly and I wil wait for your article!!!
Sorry, something went wrong. only the first two lines above are the quoteThe rest was wrote by me as answer to TheOnionMan
!!
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Wietse, I had a misspelling in my response, so I corrected the name of A. howellii var. clokeyi (I mistyped it as clockeyi). By the way, you can re-edit your own SRGC Forum messages, and fix the problem where the quoted text of what I say ran into your additional comments... use the small icon to the lower right of your original message to Edit the original message, or use the Modify button in the upper right of your original message.... at the end of what I had written, end the quotation by adding the forum syntax of [/quote] after my part and before your additional comments, and it should be fixed. Maybe Maggi can fix it for you.
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We are buying allium everywere we can, and a lot of times we get a allium we already have under an other name, sometimes it is one we do not have and we assume the name is right....... also in the case os allium murrayanum ( sold by Dix export ). I am sure there are more allium on my website who turn out not being what I assumed the are, but please tel me if that is the case, because I want al name's to be good!
Most American allium is growing very good in Holland, of course there is always an exception.
A. howellii var. clokeyi is one that is not growing very fast, but it is growing without any problems here, also from seed.
I am sure we can trade some seeds, because I'm sure you have a lot of allium that is not in my collection yet......and very beautiful to!
but please let me know which seed you like, because I do not keep seed from all allium ( to much work! )
A. trautvetterianum is a very difficult allium. I bought one bulb about 10 years ago. It is not making ofsets, and only a few seeds. From that seeds I have now about 10 new flowering bulbs. ( 9 of them were just trautvetterianum, and one is a crossing with Allium caspium subsp. baissunense (see photo below) . My first trautvetteranum last only one year!
A. dasyphyllum I have now for almost 10 years, and it is still one bulb and never any seed was found on the plant. It is a real beauty, but very difficult ...
Very useful information Wietse, not all alliums grow like weeds (as many people think) and lots of species can be difficult and rarely increase, as you have stated about A. trautvetterianum and dasyphyllum. But you do so well with so many species, it is a joy to see so many desirable Allium species growing luxuriantly in a garden.
The name Allium "murrayanum" has no meaning, it is an invalid name, and has been invalid for nearly 200 years... most often plants bearing this name are A. unifolium. The plant you show on your website under this name is a form of Allium senescens, the great imposter of other allium species.
You wrote "please let me know which seed you like". That is most generous of you, and we can certainly communicate privately on trading seed. I am very impressed with your plants of Allium tuncelianum, it has such "stature" in the garden, and I would indeed like to try growing it from seed please. You must show us when it flowers.
The trautvetterianum x baissunense cross is outstanding; looks perfectly intermediate between the two species, with a distinctive look and not just another "great purple ball" of flowers. Many of the regular Melanocrommyum section crosses between such closely allied species as A. giganteum, elatum, aflatunense, etc., yield many of the hard-to-distinguish great purple ball types, but it gets fun when such species like Allium atropurpureum get crossed, adding a "new look and color" to the hybrid selections. The cross you show of A. trautvetterianum x baissunense looks distinctive to me, with much broader tepals and a more substantial look to the globe of flowers, very beautiful, but for many people not as familiar with Alliums, it'll look just like yet another "great purple ball". I like it very much, all of these great purple balls are wonderful accents in the garden.
Allium regelii I grew only briefy, for 3-4 years, again from Arnis Seisums. It produced one undersized immature flower head without the 2nd tier of blooms, and then disappeared. :'( It would be very interesting to cross A. regelii with one of the big purple ball allium species, to see if it is possible to get a hybrid with multiple tiered balls of bloom on a single flower stalk. ;)
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Allium regelii It would be very interesting to cross A. regelii with one of the big purple ball allium species, to see if it is possible to get a hybrid with multiple tiered balls of bloom on a single flower stalk.
Mark
This is a cross where the Dutch growers are talking about sins 20-30 years
I remember a talk over 25 years ago
when Ton Langendijk was creating his famous Allium Ambassador
He offered me 1000 Dutch guilders for a single bulb
In that time I was setting up a collection Allium
for the botanic gardens from Haren in the north of Holland
I got loads of parcels with seeds from all botanic gardens all over the world
After 3 years I quit with this job
thousands of misnamed pots where thrown away
most Allium cyathophorum var. farreri
a real weed in the botanic gardens
But Ton was and is still is dreaming from this cross
sure if he can get one bulb
he is one of the best to do the job
maybe together with Wietse (two know more as one)
if you know a few spare seeds
he will be happy
I tried to get them from Tony hall from Kew
but they just had one bulb without flowers at that time
collected in Afghanistan if I remember well
Roland
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I am very impressed with your plants of Allium tuncelianum, it has such "stature" in the garden, and I would indeed like to try growing it from seed please. You must show us when it flowers.
Allium regelii I grew only briefy, for 3-4 years, again from Arnis Seisums. It produced one undersized immature flower head without the 2nd tier of blooms, and then disappeared. :'( It would be very interesting to cross A. regelii with one of the big purple ball allium species, to see if it is possible to get a hybrid with multiple tiered balls of bloom on a single flower stalk. ;)
Of course I will show a Photo when allium tuncelianum is flowering. The stems will be al straight then, and different then the whole plant; the flower is not very spectacular, just a little grey, but with very fine and tiny flowerhead.
allium regelii is again an allium that is very difficult to grow. It stays 1 bulb for about 7 years now, and I have about 3 or 4 seeds every year, but they never germinate :'( ???
When I look to the flower of allium regelii it could be a close relative to allium winkelerianum and cupiliferum. maby a crossing with one of them will work??
I will keep some seeds of allium tuncelianum for you. This is one of the alliums I keep every year to get some more, and the first seed from 2007 is starting to flower this year .
siskyonense 2 2011.JPG
schubertii x rose nigrum 2 2011.JPG
howelii clokeyi 2 2011.JPG
crenulatum x falcifolium 1 2011.JPG
crenulatum 1 2011.JPG
chloranthum 2 2011.JPG
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There are some allium we bought the last years from several addresses, but we do not see any differences between them.
Can someone tel me the difference between allium platicaule and allium tolmiei var. platyphyllum??
And is there a picture of allium carolinianum, because what we have as carolinianum is something else. and what is the allium we call carolinianum???? (see photo below)
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Wietse, see this post to see an allium identified as A. carolinianum in the Tien Shan.....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4985.msg135688#msg135688
and see the following page to read that The name "polyphyllum" is a synonym of A. carolinianum.
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=200027456
Allium carolinianum DC., ; Redoute Liliac. 2: t. 101 (1804).
Synonyms:
Allium aitchisonii Boiss.
Allium blandum Wall.
Allium obtusifolium Klotzsch
Allium polyphyllum Kar. & Kir.
Allium thomsonii Baker
4800-5100 m; C. Asia, Afghanistan, Himalaya (Kashmir to Nepal)
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Thanks Maggi. Wietse, will try to answer your questions tonight or the following day... off to work.
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allium regelii is again an allium that is very difficult to grow. It stays 1 bulb for about 7 years now, and I have about 3 or 4 seeds every year, but they never germinate
Wieste,
that is really sad - It's one allium that I've wanted to grow since first seeing it in "The Bulb Book" by Rix and Phillips around1981!
cheers
fermi
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Fermi
It's probably the most sought after Allium
Maybe we can find a military to collect some
so we can have not sterile seeds
Roland
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Thanks Maggi; I don't Think my carolinianum is the real one, but I will wait to see what Mark can te me about that...
Fermi and Roland it is realy a shame allium regelii is not growing. Everyone who come to see alliums with us wants to buy allium regelii.....
And I would like some more to cross... very much...
Today I have been visiting some allium growers in Noord Holland and made some photos from there fields.....
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siskyonense 2 2011.JPG
schubertii x rose nigrum 2 2011.JPG
howelii clokeyi 2 2011.JPG
crenulatum x falcifolium 1 2011.JPG
crenulatum 1 2011.JPG
chloranthum 2 2011.JPG
Wietse, it is incredible that you grow so many Allium species, and so many American species, which as I said before, are nearly absent from cultivation here in the USA.
You might want to check and compare the description of Allium siskiyouense (note spelling) versus the very closely related Allium falcifolium. I think your plant looks more like A. falcifolium, which has broader leaves and longer/larger flowers that Allium siskiyouense (syn. A. falcifolium var. demissum).
I include some photo links from the CalPhotos website of Allium siskiyouense that depict what I believe is the right species, but be careful of CalPhotos... a good site, but because the photos can be user-submitted, often there are mistakes, and 2 or more species might be submitted incorrectly as a certain species, such as with the case with A. siskiyouense. These photos show A. siskiyouense:
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0706+0390
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0502+0384
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=5315+2021+0941+0029
Species descriptions in Flora of North America to compare:
Allium siskiyouense (Allium falcifolium var. demissum)
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=242101404
Allium falcifolium
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=242101357
Love the look of Allium schubertii x nigrum (pink form); will this beauty be coming to market sometime in the future???
On the A. crenulatum x falcifolium hybrid, please tell me more about it; where did the hybrids occur, is the bed of said hybrids shown in the photo seed grown or do they represent bulb divisions. The two species are somewhat close morphologically, so it is hard to say whether they truly represent that hybrid.
Thanks for showing all these, much to consider!
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Today I have been visiting some allium growers in Noord Holland and made some photos from there fields.....
Allium 'Summer Drummer'
Allium 'Spider'
Allium 'Summer Drummer' low angle.
Weitse, is Allium 'Summer Drummer' a named selection of A. ampeloprasum? Or possibly a hybrid of Allium ampeloprasum?
Allium 'Spider' is awesome, can you remind us what the hybrid cross is? Will this one become available commercially! I'm assuming the masses of yellow in the field behind it is Allium moly?
In the 3rd photo that shows the low angle of Allium 'Summer Drummer', what is the white Allium species growing in endless rows?
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Wietse, see this post to see an allium identified as A. carolianum in the Tien Shan.....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4985.msg135688#msg135688
and see the following page to read that The name "polyphyllum" is a synonym of A. carolinianum.
Note spelling: Allium carolinianum.
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There are some allium we bought the last years from several addresses, but we do not see any differences between them.
Can someone tel me the difference between allium platicaule and allium tolmiei var. platyphyllum??
And is there a picture of allium carolinianum, because what we have as carolinianum is something else. and what is the allium we call carolinianum???? (see photo below)
Regarding the differences between Allium platycaule and Allium tolmiei var. tolmiei (syn. A. tolmiei v. platyphyllum), the best thing to do is compare the key and descriptions in Flora of North America here: http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=101086
Wietse, not sure what Allium species that is posing as A. carolinianum, it has open flowers which is NOT characteristic for Allium carolinianum. I'll share some links that show the closed pinched flowers of A. carolinianum with the long stamens squeezing out from the tightly pinched florets, having a pin-cushion look to the flower head.
Allium carolinianum photos:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg173205#msg173205
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5766.0;attach=254368;image
...probably the best resource is to check out the database records (with images) of the IPK Taxonomic Allium reference collection (Institute of Plant Genetics in Gatersleben, Germany). In the two links I supply, it'll show the start of multiple records for their collections of Allium carolinianum; there are 25 records total... most have photos. For each link, click on the "page" icon on the left of each record, then use the right-arrow ">" key to move through the records, if there are photos, the thumbnails will display... click on any thumbnail to show a larger image. Some of these records will show the characteristic closed-&-pinched blooms of the species, the florets held in tight ball-shaped heads. The species is widely distributed and extremely variable. I also include a couple links of an old reluctant-to-increase plant from my garden.
http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:1767063461965043::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:243
http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:1767063461965043::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:242
A couple of past links announcing the IPK Taxonomic Allium reference collection (Institute of Plant Genetics in Gatersleben, Germany):
http://nargs.org/smf/index.php?topic=177.msg4950#msg4950
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg173150#msg173150
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Today I have been visiting some allium growers in Noord Holland and made some photos from there fields.....
Allium 'Summer Drummer'
Allium 'Spider'
Allium 'Summer Drummer' low angle.
Weitse, is Allium 'Summer Drummer' a named selection of A. ampeloprasum? Or possibly a hybrid of Allium ampeloprasum?
Allium 'Spider' is awesome, can you remind us what the hybrid cross is? Will this one become available commercially! I'm assuming the masses of yellow in the field behind it is Allium moly?
In the 3rd photo that shows the low angle of Allium 'Summer Drummer', what is the white Allium species growing in endless rows?
About 15 years ago we collected some seeds from Creta (Griekenland). Most of them were allium ampeloprasum in variable collours. One of the seeds turned out to be much higher, and had different bulb grow and different flowers. This plant was 2.5 meter high and while flowering (dark purple with beautiful white when each flower is opening). The bulbs are also much bigger than ampeloprasum, and the are very easy growing and make a lot ofsets. While flowering the stem is also getting dark purple?!
After growing for a few years we brought flowers to the auction in aalsmeer and the were very expensive so as nobody new what it was we registrate it as allium Summer Drummer
Allium Spider is a cross of allium schubertii and allium atropurpureum, and I selected this one because it is a lookalike of schubertii, but a little smaller, some higher and much darker colour. also it is a much better grower making 5 til 15 ofsets. It is already on the marked by Dix Export, Peter Nijssen and others. The yellow allium on the photo is as you wrote allium moly.
In the last photo next to the Summer Drummer you see a white selection made by us of allium amplectens. It has very beutifull red bulbs and the flowers are pure white with soft pinkish pollen called Gracefull
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siskyonense 2 2011.JPG
schubertii x rose nigrum 2 2011.JPG
crenulatum x falcifolium 1 2011.JPG
You might want to check and compare the description of Allium siskiyouense (note spelling) versus the very closely related Allium falcifolium. I think your plant looks more like A. falcifolium, which has broader leaves and longer/larger flowers that Allium siskiyouense (syn. A. falcifolium var. demissum).
Love the look of Allium schubertii x nigrum (pink form); will this beauty be coming to market sometime in the future???
On the A. crenulatum x falcifolium hybrid, please tell me more about it; where did the hybrids occur, is the bed of said hybrids shown in the photo seed grown or do they represent bulb divisions. The two species are somewhat close morphologically, so it is hard to say whether they truly represent that hybrid.
Allium siskiouense I bought from Janis Ruksans. He describes it as a smaller version of allium falcifolium and in my garden it is indeed.
Having them both I can see they are different species (see my photo's)
Allium crenulatum x allium falcifolium on the photo is a mix of seedlings in a almost same colour. We already put out al the white flowering seedlings (the were the normale crenulatum) Growing these two alliums next to each other you almost get a 100% cross by bees. You can easy see the flowercolour bij looking to the bulbs as crenulatum has white bulbs and falcifolium pink/red bulbs, all the seedlings have soft pink bulbs. I am 100% sure its a cross between these two alliums.
allium schubertii x nigrum rose hybrid has again a big problem, because it is not making any ofsets and stil not growing from seed. so I think it will not be commercially available very soon. And that is a shame because it's a real beauty I think.
By the way, Mark, Thanks for the loads of information about carolinianum. I still don't know what my "allium carolinianum" is, but the real one is a beauty!
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allium schubertii x nigrum rose hybrid has again a big problem, because it is not making any ofsets and stil not growing from seed. so I think it will not be commercially available very soon. And that is a shame because it's a real beauty I think.
Wietse
maybe you can cross it again with A. nigrum
or A. atropurpureum
and you will have your offsets
Roland
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Nice to know the parents of 'Spider'. I have/had 3 from Nijssen, but they were all virused and I tossed them after bloom. I hope this is not the case for all stocks available, as this is a very nice allium.
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I am very impressed with allium SPIDER. Very elegant and catchy cultivar, which would be ideal for garden decoration!!!!!!!!! Will put it in my wants list for sure.
Please, who can help me with this allium cultivar identification. I got it from my colleague, who just grow bulbs for cutting and selling and takes minimum interest in thier names. So it came to me without a name. I thought that it was allium 'Globemaster', but anyway I have some doubts as it it not as big as I expect. It is about 120 cm tall with flowers heads of around 13 cm in diameter. Catalogues usually show flower heads and part of stem for many allium cultivars, so those photos are not of much use for ID purposes.
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Boyed
Here is a picture from the real Allium Globemaster
look for the double part in the left flower-stem
this is specific for Allium Globemaster
I hope this helps
Roland
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Please, who can help me with this allium cultivar identification. I got it from my colleague, who just grow bulbs for cutting and selling and takes minimum interest in thier names. So it came to me without a name. I thought that it was allium 'Globemaster', but anyway I have some doubts as it it not as big as I expect. It is about 120 cm tall with flowers heads of around 13 cm in diameter. Catalogues usually show flower heads and part of stem for many allium cultivars, so those photos are not of much use for ID purposes.
It is indeed very difficult to ID one of the "Big" allium from a photo. Is it possible to post a picture of a flower close up?
And what size bulbs did you plant, was there a skin around the bulb, and what colour was the flesh, does it make any ofsets and are these smal or big, ore is the bulb splitting into 2 or 3 same size bulbs every year, does it make seeds that germinate or no seed at al?
When the bulbs you planted are not to big it looks like "Beau Regard", But when this allium is growing from big size bulbs it has the same flower-stem as "Globemaster" (Double) as most hybrids have from big-size bulbs.
Your allium also looks like allium "Gladiator" . That is not a hybrid and makes seeds that germinate.
When is your allium flowering? Is it one of the earley flowering alliums or is it late?
Where did the original bulbs come from? from seed or from cultivated stock.
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It is indeed very difficult to ID one of the "Big" allium from a photo. Is it possible to post a picture of a flower close up?
And what size bulbs did you plant, was there a skin around the bulb, and what colour was the flesh, does it make any ofsets and are these smal or big, ore is the bulb splitting into 2 or 3 same size bulbs every year, does it make seeds that germinate or no seed at al?
When the bulbs you planted are not to big it looks like "Beau Regard", But when this allium is growing from big size bulbs it has the same flower-stem as "Globemaster" (Double) as most hybrids have from big-size bulbs.
Your allium also looks like allium "Gladiator" . That is not a hybrid and makes seeds that germinate.
When is your allium flowering? Is it one of the earley flowering alliums or is it late?
Where did the original bulbs come from? from seed or from cultivated stock.
Thank you very much for your comments Wietse!
I will try to answer to your questions.
Firstly, I would like to note, that it must be a common cultivar, which is widely available, as it was bought from a regular garden centre.
It is the second year with me. Last year I planted a single bulb of about 10 cm in diametre, it splitted into 2 same sized bulbs of the size as the original one. Thre were no small ofsets. The skin was white and the flesh as far as I remember - yellow or yellowish. It makes seeds, but I didn't collect them to test for germination. This allium is flowering a bit later than allium 'Gladiator' (approximately a week or 10 days later), I would say nearly the same time as allium hollandicum. Currently it is in flower in our region.
I post a its picture of a flower close up, as you asked and a picture of my allium hollandicum.
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Allium stipitatum ???
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Could be allium "World cup" or allium "Pink Globe"
For photos please see my website: http://www.wmel.nl/?pagina=3&tp=6
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Roland, Wietse,
Thanks a lot for your comments and contributions. Now I really see that that is not 'Globemaster'. Indeed, it is quite hard to identify it for sure, but I think I wil stick to 'World Cup'
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It helps maybe a lot with some pictures from the bulb
as Wietse mentioned
shape , colour , nice skin when you bought it
Roland
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Some alliums in the garden now
1. allium falcifolium
2. allium carolinianum
3. allium gooddingii
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Thanks all for all the great Allium posts (too little time at the moment to study in detail).
I posted pictures of my Alllium carolinianum (which I received from another gardener here in 2005, unknown origin) somewhere either here or over at NARGS, but couldn't find it. I remember Mark commenting that it was a good form. Therefore, here they are again (pictures 1 to 3). Should have seed in the autumn.
I just returned from a trip to Sweden and Denmark and the last two are from the Botanical gardens in Goteborg and Copenhagen. The former looks possibly correct, but not the latter. Have also received carolinianum another time and it was wrong.
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Hello onion fans, a mad dash reply here this morning before work...
@Wietse: I think the 2 alliums you show, as A. siskiyouense and A. falcifolium, are both A. falcifolium (even if your siskiyouense came from Janis)... the leaves on that siskiyouense look too broad. Allium falcifolium and siskiyouense are closely related, thus similar, and A. falcifolium, like many alliums, is most variable.
@Oleg: nice shot of Allium carolinianum flowers, shows precisely what I was talking about when describing the flowers as pinched florets with the stamens squeezing by.
@Stephen: your photos capture the aspect of A. carolinianum well, very nice, and yes, I think you have a good form. I love the view of the emerging leaves. I planted out seedlings of this species last week, the seed collected in Kazakhstan. I have more to say about the variability of this species, but will try to comment later. In the last photo in a botanic garden, those plants look like Allium senescens or nutans (or hybrid of those species) and not carolinianum at all... again I'm not believing the names put onto Alliums in botanic gardens, perhaps 1/2 of them are misidentified :-X :-\ I could be wrong, maybe those are fine clumps of A. carolinianum, but I'd bet money on it being something else.
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Mark
If you read my story before
than you know you are sooooooo optimistic
I did not count exactly
but I would dream from 50%
80% or even more comes first
I reorganised the Allium's in the Botanic gardens from Gent (Belgium)
there was one !!!!! name correct
from over 30 species
and they send out seeds ??? ???
Roland
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Allium expert Dr. Reinhard Fritsch of Gatersleben confirmed that it's more than 50%. He wrote to me "According to our experience about two-thirds of Allium taxa offered by the seed exchange of Botanic Gardens were completely mis-named".
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I reorganised the Allium's in the Botanic gardens from Gent (Belgium)
there was one !!!!! name correct
from over 30 species
and they send out seeds ??? ???
I visited Gent a couple of years ago and all the Alliums I saw were correct as far as I could see!! Must be thanks to you, Roland!
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And the head-gardener :)
Who was very interested
he wanted to know everything
I showed him how to keep the assortment clean
just spending a little time every week
Roland
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Last year I acquired this Allium but I have no name. About 40 cm high. I hope somebody can tell me a name?
I think it is a good garden plant because long flowering.
The first pic is from 6th June and the second is of yesterday 16th and will keep its color for some time, I presume.
Allium ??
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Last year I acquired this Allium but I have no name. About 40 cm high. I hope somebody can tell me a name?
I think it is a good garden plant because long flowering.
The first pic is from 6th June and the second is of yesterday 16th and will keep its color for some time, I presume.
Allium ??
Luit, those are chives, Allium schoenoprasum. Found in most of the northern hemisphere, the species is amazingly variable, but I'm fairly certain it is A. schoenoprasum. There are numerous (dozens) of regionally named forms, such as subsp. latiorifolium, but few if any of the subspecies and varieties are recognized, but it is a good illustration just how variable the plant is, that so many subtaxa have been described.
There is a chance that it could be A. ledebourianum, but the true species is relatively rare in cultivation, and as well, it is practically indistinguishable from A. schoenoprasum. The last possibility is A. altyncolicum, a relatively recently defined species, which is among my favorite species, with bluer foliage that tends to be more upright and stiff, and really large heads of showy bloom, typically blooming well after A. schoenoprasum... but I don't think your plant is that species.
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some photos of allium flowering today and a gardenview.
Also allium ledebourianum which is easy recognizable because it has very dark green almost blue leaves and a little bigger pink flower than schoenoprasum.
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There is a chance that it could be A. ledebourianum, but the true species is relatively rare in cultivation, and as well, it is practically indistinguishable from A. schoenoprasum. The last possibility is A. altyncolicum, a relatively recently defined species, which is among my favorite species, with bluer foliage that tends to be more upright and stiff, and really large heads of showy bloom, typically blooming well after A. schoenoprasum... but I don't think your plant is that species.
as I was reading your discription of allium altyncolicum, I think it looks like my allium ledebourianum????????
I post 2 more pictures of my allium ledebourianum, one made today.
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Allium huber-morathii is fantastic!
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Allium huber-morathii is fantastic!
Thank you Maggi,
There are so many beautiful alliums that I find it very difficult to find one to be the most beautiful....
But one of them is (next to huber-morathii) allium gypsaceum. again one that is not making ofsets or seeds :( :(
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Beauty wietse
did you get it as seed or as a bulb
Roland
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Allium huber-morathii is fantastic!
Thank you Maggi,
There are so many beautiful alliums that I find it very difficult to find one to be the most beautiful....
But one of them is (next to huber-morathii) allium gypsaceum. again one that is not making ofsets or seeds :( :(
Wow, yes, that is lovely. :)
Maddening, isn't it, how some of the most beautiful are also the slowest to grow? But if they were ugly I guess we would never notice that!
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Beauty wietse
did you get it as seed or as a bulb
Roland
We bought one bulb about 10 years ago, and it is still one bulb.
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Wietse
maybe good to buy a few more from the same source
and you can make cross pollination
probably the plant is self-sterile
Roland
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Allium huber-morathii is fantastic!
Yep that says it all perfectly.
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Luit, those are chives, Allium schoenoprasum.
Mark that is exactly what I thought when I first saw it, but it is rather huge form.
I just remember that I got my plant as Allium grisebachii, which name is to my knowledge nowhere found in the genus
I agree that my plant looks mostly like Wietse's A. ledebourianum. I found a picture at IPK Gatersleben which looks just like my plant.
http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:4455041187169639::NO (http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:4455041187169639::NO) (Tax 3170)
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A similarly large flower to Luit's has arisen in a pot of chives here... it is larger in all its parts and the flower is rather more brightly coloured than a normal Allium schoenoprasum. We think it may be a hybrid with some of the larger onions about the pplace... is this likely?
Will try for a photo tomorrow if the rain stops.
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Luit and Maggi:
I have made a lot of crossings between allium schoenoprasum; Forescate, album, albiflorum and the normal schoenoprasum and maximowiczii. Most of the seedlings have bigger plants with bigger flowers and colours from bright white, grey, violet, pink, purple and almost red (like Forescate) and everything between. Luit; I still think yours is a schoenoprasum because the leaves are to "green", but it could be easy a seedling, and I think maggi her schoenoprasum also can be a seedling.
I post 4 photos of allium schoenoprasum, schoenoprasum "Album", schoenoprasum "Forescate", and schoenoprasum albiflorum
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For a 'common chive', this are really magnificent. Amazing what is locked inside the genome. have you noticed flavour variances?
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For a 'common chive', this are really magnificent. Amazing what is locked inside the genome. have you noticed flavour variances?
Sorry, but I didn't eate one of them. But when it is like common onions (cepa) there has to be a lot of difference in taste. In the neighbourhood here the grow a lot of onions; mostly yellow ones, but also with red and white skin and these have much more full flavour
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For a 'common chive', this are really magnificent. Amazing what is locked inside the genome. have you noticed flavour variances?
Sorry, but I didn't eate one of them. But when it is like common onions (cepa) there has to be a lot of difference in taste. In the neighbourhood here the grow a lot of onions; mostly yellow ones, but also with red and white skin and these have much more full flavour
Actually, I was thinking more of the leaves in a salad. It would seem wastefull to eat the bulb of such a beauty.
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Wietse,
Very beautiful alliums! I get a great pleasure looking at your wonderful pictures. Thanks a lot for showing.
I am very pleased to see you grow allium rotundum as well, which is native to our country. This allium is very common in Armeina.
My native allium species are not in bloom, but soon some will flower. I will certainly share the photos.
Just came from the country house and photographed my allium sarawschanicum CHINORO.
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Wietse,
Very beautiful alliums! I get a great pleasure looking at your wonderful pictures. Thanks a lot for showing.
I am very pleased to see you grow allium rotundum as well, which is native to our country. This allium is very common in Armeina.
My native allium species are not in bloom, but soon some will flower. I will certainly share the photos.
Just came from the country house and photographed my allium sarawschanicum CHINORO.
Thank you Boyed; Rotundum is a very nice allium, but it has very smal bulbs, so they are not easy to find in the clay here....
Are you sure your allium photo above is Chinoro?, because it doesn't look like mine; Yours looks very much like christopii to me, but ofcourse I could be wrong.
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Thank you Boyed; Rotundum is a very nice allium, but it has very smal bulbs, so they are not easy to find in the clay here....
Are you sure your allium photo above is Chinoro?, because it doesn't look like mine; Yours looks very much like christopii to me, but ofcourse I could be wrong.
Wietse,
The thing is that I am not sure it is really Chinoro, especially when I checked and compared its photo with the one shown in Leonid Bondarenko's catalogue. I received Chinoro and christopii in the same year from Janis Ruksans, but I noticed many mislabelling. That's what I received as allium christopii.
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Looks he or you mixed the labels
Roland
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Wietse,
The thing is that I am not sure it is really Chinoro, especially when I checked and compared its photo with the one shown in Leonid Bondarenko's catalogue. I received Chinoro and christopii in the same year from Janis Ruksans, but I noticed many mislabelling. That's what I received as allium christopii.
Boyed, The last 2 photos you post are indeed Chinoro, and the first 2 (you call Chinoro) are then for sure christopii
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Boyed, The last 2 photos you post are indeed Chinoro, and the first 2 (you call Chinoro) are then for sure christopii
Roland, Wietse,
Thanks a lot for corrections.
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Boyed, The last 2 photos you post are indeed Chinoro, and the first 2 (you call Chinoro) are then for sure christopii
Roland, Wietse,
Thanks a lot for corrections.
Zhirair, you certainly misplaced labels!
Janis
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Shortly ago returned from Turkey. Not many flowers seen as spring was earl;y, winter with less snow then usually. But few nice pictures I maid. Here Allium nemrutdaghense at Nemrut Dag (Malatya). Most beautifull form on last picture. Unfortunately in my collection are only pure white forms grown up from seeds collected at Nemrutdag some years ago. I even didn't know that there are such color forms in this species.
Janis
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Allium huber-morathii is fantastic!
Thank you Maggi,
There are so many beautiful alliums that I find it very difficult to find one to be the most beautiful....
But one of them is (next to huber-morathii) allium gypsaceum. again one that is not making ofsets or seeds :( :(
Allium gypsaceum with me well set seeds every year, otherwise it would not be possible to offer it in my catalogue. Very rarely bulb splits in two.
Janis
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Hello onion fans, a mad dash reply here this morning before work...
@Wietse: I think the 2 alliums you show, as A. siskiyouense and A. falcifolium, are both A. falcifolium (even if your siskiyouense came from Janis)... the leaves on that siskiyouense look too broad. Allium falcifolium and siskiyouense are closely related, thus similar, and A. falcifolium, like many alliums, is most variable.
Rain today allows to check earlier entries. All my American alliums are grown from Ron Ratko's seeds (NW Native seeds, unfortunately not more on trade), so I suppose that they must be true to name as they usually are. Various stocks looks slightly different, I keep them under original numbers and I'm not mixing plants from different localities.
Janis
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Shortly ago returned from Turkey. Not many flowers seen as spring was earl;y, winter with less snow then usually. But few nice pictures I maid. Here Allium nemrutdaghense at Nemrut Dag (Malatya). Most beautifull form on last picture. Unfortunately in my collection are only pure white forms grown up from seeds collected at Nemrutdag some years ago. I even didn't know that there are such color forms in this species.
Janis
Janis, the color forms of A. nemrutdaghense are simply luscious, the last one especially so. :o :o :o Oh my oh my, my head is spinning!
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Shortly ago returned from Turkey. Not many flowers seen as spring was earl;y, winter with less snow then usually. But few nice pictures I maid. Here Allium nemrutdaghense at Nemrut Dag (Malatya). Most beautifull form on last picture. Unfortunately in my collection are only pure white forms grown up from seeds collected at Nemrutdag some years ago. I even didn't know that there are such color forms in this species.
Janis
Janis; These are indeed very beautiful!!. The colour looks like allium nigrum "Silver Spring" a little! (see photo)
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Janis; These are indeed very beautiful!!. The colour looks like allium nigrum "Silver Spring" a little! (see photo)
Wietse, I thought the same, a similarity in color combination. Absolutely stunning photo of 'Silver Spring', does that one set seed, and if so, does it come true from seed? Make the regular European form of Allium nigrum look dull by comparison.
Also GORGEOUS is A. gypsaceum and huber-morathii you showed, both extremely desirable. I grew a plant from Arnis Seisums of A. sieheanum from Turkey, which looks just like A. huber-morathii; there are a series of similar and confusing Turkish species.
I notice that your A. cupanii is darker pink than forms I've grown, where is your plants from? I grew A. cupanii ssp. hirtovaginatum from Turkey, and it was a much paler pink.
Regarding Allium ledebourianum, after many years of growing anything by that name, I've yet to find the true Allium ledebourianum. The species is mainly separated from A. schoenoprasum based on stamen length... more on this later, I'm late for work.
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Mark
As far as I know is Silverspring multiplied by seed
it never made bulblet's here
but is registered
I don't know how
because the seedlings are variable
would be a nice discussion
how you can make a registration
from a not true regrowing seedling
but maybe I got the not real one
Roland
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Janis; These are indeed very beautiful!!. The colour looks like allium nigrum "Silver Spring" a little! (see photo)
Wietse, I thought the same, a similarity in color combination. Absolutely stunning photo of 'Silver Spring', does that one set seed, and if so, does it come true from seed? Make the regular European form of Allium nigrum look dull by comparison.
With me SILVERSPRING set seeds but seedlings didn't bloom yet. Original stock turned virus infected an I destroyed it. Something doubtful about it's hardiness, too.
I noticed the similarity between some A. nemrutdaghrense and Silverspring, too. Pity that didn't collect any of this forms bulbs. It is narrow endemic of Nemrut-dag National Park... So, you can understand my reaction.
Janis
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Roland, Mark and Janis,
My Silver Spring is comming from C.S. Wijers / Hillegom, And as far as I know they inported the bulbs from Israel. Also, for as far as I know they give the (work) name "Silver Spring". We had the same problem as Janis had with virus in the plants and they bloom only one year with us before I lost them, An other problem is the growing starts before the winter, they are about 10 centimeter high when the real winter starts and they do not like to much frost.
We have now for the second year flowers from seed. They are very healthy and giving good seed, but never any ofsets/bulblet's.
The only way to get more is by seed, and the seeds come almost true , with a little difference in colour from pure white to a little soft-pink.
Virus is a big problem (I think) in israel, were the grow these allium as cutflower. Last year we bought some allium aschersonianum from israel. We planted 100 bulbs, they al were very virus-sick and only 3 gave flowers this spring, so we start with seed again.....
I notice that your A. cupanii is darker pink than forms I've grown, where is your plants from? I grew A. cupanii ssp. hirtovaginatum from Turkey, and it was a much paler pink.
Mark, I am not sure where my cupanii came from, But it just starts flowering, maby next week the colour is a bit more pale, But it could be the ground to, because we grow them in clay. normaly you get more pale flowers by growing in sand.
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I noticed yesterday that the small bulbils (about 1.5cms across) I retrieved from the seed head of Allium (I have as) 'Globus,' are starting to come through. From pictures here recently I think maybe it isn't 'Globus' but I'll take pictures later when it flowers. The bulb was very big, about 6cms across.
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Lesley
It has large bulbs
A. Globus is a hybrid from
A. giganteum and A. christophii
very normal that he makes more flower-stems
like A. violet beauty
Roland
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Thanks Roland and just as well you posted about it because I'm totally off key. I went to see if my single bulb was through yet and found it isn't 'Globus' at all, but is labelled 'Gladiator.' Don't know where the 'Globus' came from, probably just from reading about it here. Maybe the 'Moan, Moan, Moan' thread offers an explanation. :o ???
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Photos of Allium 'Globus' from 2006. I grew these for about 5 years then like many of the large-headed Melanocrommyum allium they started dying out, and are no longer living in my garden.
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The "real" 'Globus' is a really handsome plant Mark. Not that I'm complaining mind you, my 'Gladiator' (assuming THAT name is correct) gave me 5 stems from the single bulb. I see from the picture that the leaves were just about died away by the time the flowers were out.
I picked up the pot with the babies in a short while ago and the roots are 10cms long out the bottom already!
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The "real" 'Globus' is a really handsome plant Mark. Not that I'm complaining mind you, my 'Gladiator' (assuming THAT name is correct) gave me 5 stems from the single bulb. I see from the picture that the leaves were just about died away by the time the flowers were out.
I picked up the pot with the babies in a short while ago and the roots are 10cms long out the bottom already!
GLOBUS was raised in former Czechoslovakia (now Czech Republic) in Hermanuv Mestec breeding station. It is medium high, good grower and increaser but completely sterile - never got any seed of it. In last years it became weeker grower, I suppose due climate changes. Many Alliums which I grew outside without problems and had large stocks now every spring suffers from late frosts and my stocks decrease. They are too cheap for growing under cover, so I'm much thinking to stop their growing at all although many are selected just by me and in my nursery.
Janis
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Today we harvested some new crossings of allium stipitatum and aflatunense (from Janis Ruksans).
The biggest bulb was almost 18 centimeter and 1.4 kilo! (see photo)
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Today we harvested some new crossings of allium stipitatum and aflatunense (from Janis Ruksans).
The biggest bulb was almost 18 centimeter and 1.4 kilo! (see photo)
Phantastic! I hear about 2 kg Lilium bulbs (Caucasian), but for Allium? Almost incredible.
Janis
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Amazing! Perhaps you should launch it as a new vegetable too. A. aflatunense is wild collected as a vegetable (there's currently a lot of interest in novel perennial vegetables):
http://www.pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Allium aflatunense
(I've never tried eating them...)
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Only perennial if one eats the foliage and not the bulbs though.... ;D
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My 'Gladiator' also set no seeds but among the non-capsules were 5 bulbils on just one of the 5 stems. I'm quite happy with increase at that rate.
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Allium Gladiator
This one is a cross between A. hollandicum (syn. A. aflatunense of Hort.) x macleanii (probably)
there is a lot of discussion for A. aflatunense
what is the real name
finally the botanist will make the last word
but I am still using A. aflatunense
Till they are sure for a name for ten years
I changed too often
Roland
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Allium Gladiator
This one is a cross between A. hollandicum (syn. A. aflatunense of Hort.) x macleanii (probably)
there is a lot of discussion for A. aflatunense
what is the real name
finally the botanist will make the last word
but I am still using A. aflatunense
Till they are sure for a name for ten years
I changed too often
Roland
My understanding of A. aflatunense is that the bulb mass produced in Holland for decades and sold as A. aflatunense, wasn't! There is of couse, a true Allium aflatunense; but most of us have never seen the true Allium aflatunense. To address the misnamed plant so long mass-produced as A. aflatunense, with rare acquiescence to the situation, the wrongly named plant, one indelibly established in horticulture but for which taxonomists could not conclusively explain what it was, was described in Latin and published as a new taxonomic entity in 1993 as A. hollandicum by Dr. Reinhard Fritsch, thus a "species" only known in cultivation sourced from Holland.
So, with some certainty, there is Allium hollandicum (syn. A. aflatunense of HORT) for these past 18 years, and there does exist true Allium aflatunense, which most of us do not grow.
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And here you can make live so much easier
there are taxonomic rules
and then you have exceptions for rules
it seems nobody wants to use
there exist a plant nobody knows
where it grows but maybe exist
and a plant who everybody knows
with a wrong name
it was so much easier in 1993
as A. aflatunense by Dr. Reinhard Fritsch
was renamed to A. hollandicum by not doing this
just make a marking
and by the time the real A. aflatunense is found
to give this one an other name
but taxonomist are ......................................
Roland
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Mark i have just bought Allium geyeri,will be happy in rockery made up with sharp sand and a tiny bit of leaf mold or would it be better in my borders?
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it was so much easier in 1993
as A. aflatunense by Dr. Reinhard Fritsch
was renamed to A. hollandicum by not doing this
just make a marking
and by the time the real A. aflatunense is found
to give this one an other name
but taxonomist are ......................................
Roland
There is a real Allium aflatunense, long since found and described, and cultivated... the problem was, the plants widely cultivated and mass-produced in Holland were not that species; it was simply a misidentification of an Allium of unknown provenance. Take a look at the records in the link below (most with photos) of Allium aflatunense in the Gatersleben "Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection", the plant shown has much more dense, wide-petaled flowers than the starry-flowered plant that we all now know as A. hollandicum. The naming of Allium "hollandicum" was done to in some way recognize a plant that was for many decades misidentified and proliferated around the globe via mass-production, the story of its naming is quite an interesting example of how such misidentification problems might be solved, and it was a rare approach indeed.
http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:4102782023660464::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:21 (http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:4102782023660464::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:21)
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Mark i have just bought Allium geyeri,will be happy in rockery made up with sharp sand and a tiny bit of leaf mold or would it be better in my borders?
Davey, while Allium geyeri might persist in a sharp sandy soil, this is a species of moist meadows, often found growing in light shade, although found in sun as well. Put it in richer soil, and it'll be larger and more floriferous and the bulbs will offset into a nice colony (do not worry, it never becomes rampant). As American species go, it is pleasant but not very showy, there are better species... but I still like it and mine are just coming into flower now. We've had 4 days straight of heavy rain, so I haven't made any photos of it this year.
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I visited the Gøteborg (Gothenburg) botanics at the end of May. The garden has a fantastic under cover bulb garden with many Alliums in honour of Norwegian botanist Per Wendelbo (1927-1981) who was a professor at the garden, specialising in Himalayan and West Asian plants. Many of the plants in the garden were collected by him. I posted these first over at NARGS as I thought Mark had left us here, but with the resurgence in the Allium discussions herein, I'm reposting. I also have some pictures of Alliums from the open garden and other non-Alliaceous which will appear in due course...
Here is the first selection (see the file names for the plant names):
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...and the second batch...
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Mark has left his "mark" in the open garden at Gøteborg - see this collection (none of the plants were in flower, so I won't bore you with pictures of greens...)
I like the comment "(yet) another glaucum" in the first picture!
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Thanks for these pix, Stepehn... there are a lot of onion lovers in the forum,as well as those happy onion eaters ;D
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Mark i have just bought Allium geyeri,will be happy in rockery made up with sharp sand and a tiny bit of leaf mold or would it be better in my borders?
This is what I grow as allium geyeri, Is it the real thing (starting to flower this week.)
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There is a real Allium aflatunense, long since found and described, and cultivated... the problem was, the plants widely cultivated and mass-produced in Holland were not that species; it was simply a misidentification of an Allium of unknown provenance. Take a look at the records in the link below (most with photos) of Allium aflatunense in the Gatersleben "Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection", the plant shown has much more dense, wide-petaled flowers than the starry-flowered plant that we all now know as A. hollandicum. The naming of Allium "hollandicum" was done to in some way recognize a plant that was for many decades misidentified and proliferated around the globe via mass-production, the story of its naming is quite an interesting example of how such misidentification problems might be solved, and it was a rare approach indeed.
http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:4102782023660464::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:21 (http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:4102782023660464::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:21)
[/quote]
Mark,
I have opened your link and saw a lot of photos from allium aflatunense.
The one we grow looks as TAX 5632 , 5694 and 5562. (bought from Janis Ruksans)
I think TAX 2121 and 3692 look more like allium altissimum???
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Just some photos from today.
We are very busy harvesting bulbs and colect seed.
At last allium tuncelianum is (almost) straight, but not flowering ......
One more picture of allium huber-morathii......, and acutiflorum flowering now.
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This is what I grow as allium geyeri, Is it the real thing (starting to flower this week.)
Here is a photo of MacMark's A. geyeri.......
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg158150#msg158150
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This is what I grow as allium geyeri, Is it the real thing (starting to flower this week.)
Here is a photo of MacMark's A. geyeri.......
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg158150#msg158150
Maggi, thank you. It looks the same as mine
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Here is my Allium Geyeri,it arrived today.
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From seed, I really love the delicate beauty of A. cernuum.
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I posted these first over at NARGS as I thought Mark had left us here, but with the resurgence in the Allium discussions herein, I'm reposting. I also have some pictures of Alliums from the open garden and other non-Alliaceous which will appear in due course...
Thanks Stephen, I've been unable to post much... it drives me nuts being back to a crazy work schedule and unending local traveling/commuting... I get home many nights at about 8:30-9:00 PM exhausted... no energy to do anything, and my email backs up in a major way. Glad to see the activity here with Alliums on SRGC! Absolutely love the overhead shot of Allium akaka, a species I've yet to grow and flower here!
The photo of Allium scilloides might in fact be that species; visually it basically fits, but the identification tag says "NV USA" Allium scilloides only occurs in Washington State (WA) not Nevada (NV), so not sure what to think about that ;-)
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Here is my Allium Geyeri,it arrived today.
Davey and Wietse, both of what you show as Allium geyeri is correct. :)
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There is a real Allium aflatunense, long since found and described, and cultivated... the problem was, the plants widely cultivated and mass-produced in Holland were not that species; it was simply a misidentification of an Allium of unknown provenance. Take a look at the records in the link below (most with photos) of Allium aflatunense in the Gatersleben "Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection", the plant shown has much more dense, wide-petaled flowers than the starry-flowered plant that we all now know as A. hollandicum. The naming of Allium "hollandicum" was done to in some way recognize a plant that was for many decades misidentified and proliferated around the globe via mass-production, the story of its naming is quite an interesting example of how such misidentification problems might be solved, and it was a rare approach indeed.
http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:4102782023660464::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:21 (http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:4102782023660464::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:21)
Mark,
I have opened your link and saw a lot of photos from allium aflatunense.
The one we grow looks as TAX 5632 , 5694 and 5562. (bought from Janis Ruksans)
I think TAX 2121 and 3692 look more like allium altissimum???
Well, not sure what to say... I have found at least two items in the Gatersleben "Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection" that were clearly wrong, and I questioned them and those accession records were actually removed. But based on my many communications with Dr. Reinhard Fritsch, I defer to his extraordinary expertise which I believe is unparalleled in the world of Allium taxonomy... but even so, the collection represents years of collection and diagnosis by many individuals, and some might still be misallocated. I grow bulbs that were received from another foremost expert in the Allium arena (Arnis Seisums) labeled as A. altissimum, but when Dr. Fritsch reviewed my photos he said they were probably A. stipitatum and not A. altissimum!?! I believe he is right.
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Wietse, your photos of Allium acutiflorum and A. huber-morathii yank at my inner Allium-fancy, may I please ask for seed of these too. Many years ago I grew Allium acutiflorum sent to me from Richard Dadd in England, and I grew it for many years; a very pretty species, but sadly I lo longer have it.
With Allium truncelianum; it's a monster! I love it's large size and bold stature.
Thanks Maggi for posting a link back to my 2010 photo on Allium geyeri, as usual you are right on top of things.
Jamie: I'm a total sucker for a good form of Allium cernuum; aren't they nice? That's a most worthwhile form to grow. Mine are just starting into bloom now, it's a 2-month-long season of bloom depending of various forms.
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This year, after many years, bulbs received as an Allium sp. from Chen Yi nursery, China, sent to me from Aaron Floden, has matured and is flowering well. It flowered once before, but with an immature bulb, and I didn't key it. Now it seems mature, with several stems up to 30" (30 cm) tall and tight knobs of rose-striped buds. Here are 2 shots of the buds, and one of the stem and mostly basal foliage... I will try to key it out, if the blooms survive 5 straight days of pouring rain.
[attachthumb=1] [attachthumb=2] [attachthumb=3]
One that has seeded around quite a bit, is Allium amplectans, a western American species. It is quite variable, some are "easy doers" and others seem fussy and totally requiring xeric conditions. I have hundreds of these all over the place, but I do not worry as the foliage is thin, the flowers are cheerful, and the whole plant dries up and disappears with respectable speed.
[attachthumb=4]
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I posted these first over at NARGS as I thought Mark had left us here, but with the resurgence in the Allium discussions herein, I'm reposting. I also have some pictures of Alliums from the open garden and other non-Alliaceous which will appear in due course...
Thanks Stephen, I've been unable to post much... it drives me nuts being back to a crazy work schedule and unending local traveling/commuting... I get home many nights at about 8:30-9:00 PM exhausted... no energy to do anything, and my email backs up in a major way. Glad to see the activity here with Alliums on SRGC! Absolutely love the overhead shot of Allium akaka, a species I've yet to grow and flower here!
The photo of Allium scilloides might in fact be that species; visually it basically fits, but the identification tag says "NV USA" Allium scilloides only occurs in Washington State (WA) not Nevada (NV), so not sure what to think about that ;-)
Don't worry, Mark - I realised this! You should probably be spending more time in the garden! I'm sure we all appreciate your contributions even more under the circumstances.
There's a simple answer to the scilloides mystery. NV probably stands for NordVäst (North West in Swedish!).
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[/quote]
My understanding of A. aflatunense is that the bulb mass produced in Holland for decades and sold as A. aflatunense, wasn't! There is of couse, a true Allium aflatunense; but most of us have never seen the true Allium aflatunense. To address the misnamed plant so long mass-produced as A. aflatunense, with rare acquiescence to the situation, the wrongly named plant, one indelibly established in horticulture but for which taxonomists could not conclusively explain what it was, was described in Latin and published as a new taxonomic entity in 1993 as A. hollandicum by Dr. Reinhard Fritsch, thus a "species" only known in cultivation sourced from Holland.
So, with some certainty, there is Allium hollandicum (syn. A. aflatunense of HORT) for these past 18 years, and there does exist true Allium aflatunense, which most of us do not grow.
[/quote]
True aflatunense by leaves and flower scape and umbel looks close to A. macleanii (syn. A. elatum) but very different is bulb - something elongate with pointed tip and usually every year split in 2-3 equal size bulbs without small offsets. A. macleanii bulbs are round and more often makes smaller offsets. Another similar Allium is A. stipitatum- it's bulbs resemble those of macleanii but leaves are hairy.
Janis
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Haven't seen mention of Allium douglasii here (if indeed it's what Tromso Botanical Garden are growing it as - I was given a plant when I visited two years ago). First 3 pictures of it taken today in my garden (not at its best as it's been very bad weather this week) and then centerpiece in a multi-species salad put together last weekend for an unsuspecting group of visitors...it disappeared so fast I hardly got a taste myself):
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Two of my eastern Victory Onions (Allium victorialis). The white flowered one I received as Allium ochotense from Tromso and was I understand collected in East Asia and the other came from a Japanese trader as Allium victorialis platyphyllum...
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Wietse, your photos of Allium acutiflorum and A. huber-morathii yank at my inner Allium-fancy, may I please ask for seed of these too. Many years ago I grew Allium acutiflorum sent to me from Richard Dadd in England, and I grew it for many years; a very pretty species, but sadly I lo longer have it.
With Allium truncelianum; it's a monster! I love it's large size and bold stature.
Mark, I will keep some seed of allium huber-morathi and acutiflorum for you (also tuncelianum), maby some bulbs from acutiflorum are more easy because acutiflorum makes only a little seed but very much bulbs/ofsets.
This year, after many years, bulbs received as an Allium sp. from Chen Yi nursery, China, sent to me from Aaron Floden, has matured and is flowering well. It flowered once before, but with an immature bulb, and I didn't key it. Now it seems mature, with several stems up to 30" (30 cm) tall and tight knobs of rose-striped buds. Here are 2 shots of the buds, and one of the stem and mostly basal foliage... I will try to key it out, if the blooms survive 5 straight days of pouring rain.
Your allium from China looks like an allium I grow as allium macrostemon var uratense????
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I found some old photos of the real allium aflatunense bought from Janis Ruksans, and one old photo of a. dasyphyllum.
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Haven't seen mention of Allium douglasii here (if indeed it's what Tromso Botanical Garden are growing it as - I was given a plant when I visited two years ago). First 3 pictures of it taken today in my garden (not at its best as it's been very bad weather this week) and then centerpiece in a multi-species salad put together last weekend for an unsuspecting group of visitors...it disappeared so fast I hardly got a taste myself):
Yes, that looks like Allium douglasii, albeit, looking a bit leafy and soft growing in a more moist climate. I studied immense populations of Allium douglasii when I lived in Washington State, finding it growing by the acre at approximately 5000' elevation in the Wenatchee Mountains (more inland spur of the Cascade Mountains), wonderful dry mountains that are home to a couple famous native plants including Lewisia tweedy and rediviva, Douglasia nivalis, and Fritillaria pudica.
Allium douglasii grew by the millions in vernally wet slopes in full sun, the most robust colonies growing in shallow depressions and swales. At the drier edges of the swales (a shallow gulley or ditch), the plants were smaller, with much narrower leaves, and keyed precisely to A. douglasii var. nevii. At the low point of the swales where much more moisture would linger longer, the plants were much larger, stocky, with bold broad falcate leaves and large heads of bloom, keying to Allium douglasii var. douglasii. Plants growing somewhere between the low points and the dry rim areas, had moderately broad falcate leaves, keying to A. douglasii var. columbianum... all three "varieties" in perfect evidence within yards of each other, and with plants blending through each variety as one walked towards the moist low point of a depression. I became convinced that these 3 so-called varieties of A. douglasii were absolutely meaningless, and any taxonomist studying these populations would come to the same conclusion, my belief is unchanged to this day. Clearly these plants react dramatically to environmental conditions, relative to moisture.
In my travels around Washington, Oregon, and Idaho, I would find plants that could be keyed to one or more of these three "varieties", although I never encountered A. douglasii var. constrictum with a bulged stem just under the inflorescence.
To my amazement, not only were these taxa retained as separate taxa, but were raised to species status!!! ::), thus we have in the Flora of North America (FNA) Allium douglasii, A. nevii, A. columbianum and A. constrictum. In FNA, the distributional ranges would preclude wide falcate-leaved var. douglasii and var. columbianum from occurring anywhere near the Wenatchee Mts location where narrow (1-3 mm) leaved var. nevii occurs, but my eyes and my studies did not deceive me... the handsome broad-leaved forms did exist there way outside their stated range... these 3 varieties of A. douglasii should not be recognized, nor should they have been elevated to species status (in my opinion).
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Two of my eastern Victory Onions (Allium victorialis). The white flowered one I received as Allium ochotense from Tromso and was I understand collected in East Asia and the other came from a Japanese trader as Allium victorialis platyphyllum...
Stephen, I like the pinkish one. Not sure of the latest status of A. ochotense, whether valid or not, usually this is a synonym of A. victorialis. Looking through the records of the Gaterselben "Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection", there are some lovely pinkish forms, a couple with near black pedicels, would really like to obtain such a form some day.
http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:3:3723674098921013::NO::P3_SCIENTIFIC_NAME:891
My two selections of A. victorialis that I purchased from Pacific Rim Nursery years ago, looked very good this year, the selection name 'Kemerovo' on the left and the close-up photo (red base to the pedicels) and larger flowered 'Cantabria' on the right; the latter reaching about 30" tall.
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I found some old photos of the real allium aflatunense bought from Janis Ruksans, and one old photo of a. dasyphyllum.
Seeing true Allium aflatunese, it is clearly so different that A. hollandicum (Allium aflatunense (sic) of Hort)... good to see these. Thanks Wietse and Janis for adding comments regarding this confusion.
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Mark
as far as I know is the real name Allium victorialis cantabrica AMH 7827
and is a mixture from seedlings collected by Antoin Hoog
I have plants from 25 to over 50 cm tall
selecting them out in the moment
Roland
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Mark
as far as I know is the real name Allium victorialis cantabrica AMH 7827
and is a mixture from seedlings collected by Antoin Hoog
I have plants from 25 to over 50 cm tall
selecting them out in the moment
Roland
As far as I'm aware, there is no latinized name Allium victorialis cantabrica, but there is a selection named A. victorialis 'Cantabria' (also often seen listed as 'Cantabrica'). Here's a link that describes two named selections of A. victorialis; 'Kemerovo' and 'Cantabria', and also mentions our friend Stephen Barstow :)
http://toads.wordpress.com/2009/05/
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:) ...and Søren who wrote this blog is coming to Norway this summer!
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Little spelling mistake
in my computer
must be Allium victorialis Cantabria AMH.7827
but the rest from the story is correct
of-course if you multiply one
you get a clone
but this one is just a selection
from Allium victorialis Cantabria. AMH.7827
all from the original collection
Sold by van Tubergen and later Hoog en Dix
Now Dix export bv
Roland
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The first photo is an updated view showing the Allium species, ex. Chen Yi, China, now that the flowers have opened more. I haven't tried keying it out yet.
Next are two photos of Allium caeruleum, an extra good form that I got from Denver Botanic Garden. It grows well over a meter tall!
Then, a fasciated bloom on Allium cernuum, with a wide and thick ribbon-like stem and extra dense head of bloom.
Last, one of the many forms of Allium cernuum, this one is a good clumper with light pink flowers, love these things in the nodding bud stage.
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Wow Mark
I am impressed by that Allium caeruleum
one day you have some seeds left over
I know somebody ;D
Roland
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Nice caeruleum and cernuum, Mark! My bulbilliferous caeruleum is just opening...
Back to Gothenburg in Sweden. There weren't many flowering Alliums on my visit, so here's a few spring shoots:
1) Allium wallichii ( this spreads in my garden mainly by rhizomes, and the same seems to have happened here, the onion seeking the shade of another plant)
2) Allium bulleyanum is a synonym for wallichii var. wallichii, but Gothenburg have both in the same area of the garden under different names. This is a vigorous plant with pink flowers, captured here on a previous visit:
(http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3028.0;attach=182597;image)
3) Allium prattii
4) Allium pskemense
5) (A long one) Allium maximowiczii var shibutsuense f. album
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Nice caeruleum and cernuum, Mark! My bulbilliferous caeruleum is just opening...
Back to Gothenburg in Sweden. There weren't many flowering Alliums on my visit, so here's a few spring shoots:
1) Allium wallichii ( this spreads in my garden mainly by rhizomes, and the same seems to have happened here, the onion seeking the shade of another plant)
2) Allium bulleyanum is a synonym for wallichii var. wallichii, but Gothenburg have both in the same area of the garden under different names. This is a vigorous plant with pink flowers, captured here on a previous visit:
3) Allium prattii
4) Allium pskemense
5) (A long one) Allium maximowiczii var shibutsuense f. album
Awesome built-up clump of Allium pskemense, looks like an Agave! Impressive clump of A. prattii too. Stephen, I planted out some seedlings from your A. wallichii, hope they do well, I think I previously grew them in too dry a spot.
Regarding Allium "bulleyanum", I had such a feeling of deja vu seeing than name, so I googled and found the following :D
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3028.290;wap2
Love the look of the red bases to the young shoots.
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Yes, we're getting to the age that we start repeating ourselves, so look out for a similar post in a year from now...
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Yes, we're getting to the age that we start repeating ourselves, so look out for a similar post in a year from now...
;D
Awesome built-up clump of Allium pskemense, looks like an Agave!
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Allium people,
I'm posting some new images of Alliums in the thread Kazakhstan in 'Places to visit'.
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:)
...over to Kazakhstan then!!
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Yes, we're getting to the age that we start repeating ourselves, so look out for a similar post in a year from now...
Yeah.... but how many folks are able to find out what they wrote a year ago by googling themselves? ;D ;D
Oron's Alliums ( etc!!) from Kazakhstan are fantabulous..... check 'em out! http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7511.0
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Hello,
Allium hirtifolium v album has provided pleasure and interest for three months now, and is still going strong with pretty seed-heads. I got two bulbs at the Discussion Weekend last October. They appeared above ground late March, were in bloom late May, and are now in seed. They are about 80 cm (32") tall. The first picture show the two plants early April, the second a detail showing their hairy nature, and the third in bloom early June.
Knud
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Those have done well, Knud. I must say I like that sort of "sturdy" foliage better than the type that flops about. Looks so much smarter in the garden.
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I agree Maggi, and the foliage stayed nice for a long time, all of April and most of (a very rainy) May.
Knud
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Hello,
Allium hirtifolium v album has provided pleasure and interest for three months now, and is still going strong with pretty seed-heads. I got two bulbs at the Discussion Weekend last October. They appeared above ground late March, were in bloom late May, and are now in seed. They are about 80 cm (32") tall. The first picture show the two plants early April, the second a detail showing their hairy nature, and the third in bloom early June.
Knud
Attractive hairy foliage indeed. I've never grown A. hirtifolium, but I must say that the white flowered forms are a nice break from the usual purple colors.
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From small bulbs received last summer, in bloom now if the mystery Caucasus Allium collected by Magnar Aspaker, which Dr. Reinhard Fritsch suggested was probably Allium kunthianum or A. karsianum. I've had no time to attempt keying it out, but it sure is an attractive small species with individually largish florets.
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Allium myths and misnomers debunked
From the "no such thing exists" category, is Allium cneorum. No such name was ever published, nor any name close to it. Most likely is an imaginative deciphering of hand-written scrawl on a faded label from A. cernuum (cernuum <---> cneorum, plausible isn't it!). The plant going around in the UK under this name is clearly just a form of yellow-flowered knob-head A. obliquum.
So how is it possible that a name like Allium cernuum (a typically pink-flowered species) could be misinterpreted/misapplied to a yellow flower-species and coming out as "cneorum"? Easy, grow 100 species of Allium from the seed exchanges, and count how may end up actually being Allium cernuum, you'll be surprised. Or, it could simply be a label mixup, the misidentification perpetuated by nurseries and growers not validating what they're growing. And here again, one could imagine a faded label of "obliquum" coming out as "cneorum", another plausible mis-deciphering.
But the most curious part of this particular Allium myth, is that it is supposedly native to Alaska!!! It is listed by one European nursery as "the American counterpart of A. obliquum". Maybe seed was mislabeled and sent in from a donor gardening in Alaska, and it became misinterpreted as an unusual wild species from Alaska??? Only two Allium species are found in Alaska, A. schoenoprasum and A. victorialis.
Allium obliquum comes from China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Russia; E Europe. Aside from the rare Texas endemic Allium coryi, no other North American Allium has yellow flowers. Allium photos that I've seen labeled as Allium "cneorum" on web sites, and on this forum, are in fact Allium obliquum, not a species indigenous to Alaska. Anyone growing this plant under this name, run out to the garden quickly with a new label and pencil, and change the name to A. obliquum.
Now, if we're talking about Convolvulus cneorum or Daphne cneorum, that's a different matter ;)
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Never come across cneorum. Interesting to read that victorialis ranges into Alaska - didn't realise that...
I have several accessions of Allium splendens - all are the same (pictures) - but, I've always thought it was wrong as it's not splendid enough. Now, I see that splendens also means "shining" and there is a certain shininess about the flowers. Is this really splendens? Haven't tried keying it out in FOC yet....
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...and this came up from Allium platycaule seed. Any suggestions?
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...and this came up from Allium platycaule seed. Any suggestions?
Looks like allium palasii...........
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I have several accessions of Allium splendens - all are the same (pictures) - but, I've always thought it was wrong as it's not splendid enough. Now, I see that splendens also means "shining" and there is a certain shininess about the flowers. Is this really splendens? Haven't tried keying it out in FOC yet....
Photo below is wat we grow as allium splendens........
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Never come across cneorum. Interesting to read that victorialis ranges into Alaska - didn't realise that...
I have several accessions of Allium splendens - all are the same (pictures) - but, I've always thought it was wrong as it's not splendid enough. Now, I see that splendens also means "shining" and there is a certain shininess about the flowers. Is this really splendens? Haven't tried keying it out in FOC yet....
Well, strictly speaking the Flora of Alaska includes the long chain of Aleutian Islands (over 1000 miles), and Allium victorialis (as subsp. platyphyllum) is found at the furthest tip of the Aleutians (Attu Islands) in the Bering Sea, approaching the Kamchatka Peninsula :D So it only just barely creeps into the Alaskan flora.
Your Allium splendens looks like the right thing. I have grown numerous forms, and keyed it in Flora of the USSR, but worth a second look. The species can be taken as the "type" for a number of related species, with Dr. Micolai Friesen at the forefront of defining species in this group. You are right, the name suggests "splendid" but in fact simply refers to the shininess of the flowers (which many Allium share), and it is a pleasant but rather unremarkable affair. Wietse, not sure what your Allium splendens is, looks different than anything I've grown under this name, has me curious to re-investigate the species descriptions.
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Allium myths and misnomers debunked
From the "no such thing exists" category, is Allium cneorum. No such name was ever published, nor any name close to it. Most likely is an imaginative deciphering of hand-written scrawl on a faded label from A. cernuum (cernuum <---> cneorum, plausible isn't it!). The plant going around in the UK under this name is clearly just a form of yellow-flowered knob-head A. obliquum.
So how is it possible that a name like Allium cernuum (a typically pink-flowered species) could be misinterpreted/misapplied to a yellow flower-species and coming out as "cneorum"? Easy, grow 100 species of Allium from the seed exchanges, and count how may end up actually being Allium cernuum, you'll be surprised. Or, it could simply be a label mixup, the misidentification perpetuated by nurseries and growers not validating what they're growing. And here again, one could imagine a faded label of "obliquum" coming out as "cneorum", another plausible mis-deciphering.
But the most curious part of this particular Allium myth, is that it is supposedly native to Alaska!!! It is listed by one European nursery as "the American counterpart of A. obliquum". Maybe seed was mislabeled and sent in from a donor gardening in Alaska, and it became misinterpreted as an unusual wild species from Alaska??? Only two Allium species are found in Alasta, A. schoenoprasum and A. victorialis.
Allium obliquum comes from China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Russia; E Europe. Aside from the rare Texas endemic Allium coryi, no other North American Allium has yellow flowers. Allium photos that I've seen labeled as Allium "cneorum" on web sites, and on this forum, are in fact Allium obliquum, not a species indigenous to Alaska. Anyone growing this plant under this name, run out to the garden quickly with a new label and pencil, and change the name to A. obliquum.
Now, if we're talking about Convolvulus cneorum or Daphne cneorum, that's a different matter ;)
We received a few years ago seed from the U.S.A. as allium cneorum, and we were told it woud be the nord-american form of a. obliquum. (NARGS seed list 2002-2003)
After growing a few years we saw it was different from obliquum in a lot of things:
bulbs of obliquum are pinkish and cneorum was pure white
flowering of cneorum is 2-3 weeks later than obliquum
obliquum has much bigger flowers
obliquum is much higher
So, seeing the difference, with the story, some buyers wanted to sell it in there catalog.
We never checked if name or story were correct..... sorry
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Some photos from today and yesterday;
Allium pskemense in holland is already flowering
is allium szovitsii correct?? (Grown from seed USA)
allium cupanii now flowering for a week or two (darker colour than in the begin of flowering)
a. saxatille we have in 3 colours, one is not flowering yet
2 different forms of a. cernuum
a. sativum var ophioscorodum not flowering but with nice curly stem.
a. azureum and a. macranthum
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second 5 photos
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From small bulbs received last summer, in bloom now if the mystery Caucasus Allium collected by Magnar Aspaker, which Dr. Reinhard Fritsch suggested was probably Allium kunthianum or A. karsianum. I've had no time to attempt keying it out, but it sure is an attractive small species with individually largish florets.
Mark, this is what we grow as a. kunthianum.
Very smal allium only 3-5 centimeters high
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What on earth is this? I have a mental block! I have no record of platnting an Allium here, but the plant looks familiar.
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Stephen, looks like a pale form of Allium prattii? Very nice floral form and color by the way.
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Hoorah! I thought Allium prattii too :o ;D :D Things are looking up, I identified an onion! ::) 8) 8) ;D
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Maggi: But I didn't recognise it despite having only recently posted a picture of it from Gothenburg! Congratulations by the way on your first! But, where on earth did I get it from?
Thanks, Mark, at least I knew that I knew it.
Wietse: Another great set of Alliums - love the mass spread of the dwarf Allium cernuum - wish I had more space...
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Hoorah! I thought Allium prattii too :o ;D :D Things are looking up, I identified an onion! ::) 8) 8) ;D
Congratulations Maggi, you're on the fast track to becoming a multi-layered purveyor of ornamental onions! You can now change your avatar signature from "There's often a clue" to "There's often an onion" ;)
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Thanks Mark, you give me great encouragement. I think a couple of IDs of one onion doesn't quite make a fully rounded stew, though, so I'll wait before claiming any skills! ::) ;D
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what an allium fields!
This is Allium paczoskianum, from my friend S. Banquetow
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At last allium tuncelianum is starting to flower today :P,
also allium texanum is flowering now and the seeds of allium hissaricum are more than beautiful (I think....)
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At last allium tuncelianum is starting to flower today :P,
also allium texanum is flowering now and the seeds of allium hissaricum are more than beautiful (I think....)
My tuncelianum is pure white.
Janis
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At last allium tuncelianum is starting to flower today :P,
also allium texanum is flowering now and the seeds of allium hissaricum are more than beautiful (I think....)
My tuncelianum is pure white.
Janis
Janis; I bought a. tuncelianum from you in 2006!!. It is just starting to flower and in about a week it's getting more white. I post a photo from last year
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Stephen
Malvik, Norway
Eating my way through the world's 15,000+ edible species
Age: Lower end of the 20-25,000 day range
« Reply #213 on: June 29, 2011, 09:13:49 AM »
...and this came up from Allium platycaule seed. Any suggestions?
Was this allium a bulb, or a plant like a.cernuum and a.schoenoprasum??
as I posted before it looked like a. palasii, But when it is a plant, I think it is allium amphibolum!
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what an allium fields!
This is Allium paczoskianum, from my friend S. Banquetow
Very nice A. paczoskianum Rafa, one I've seen lots of photos of but one rarely seen in cultivation, it has a "flavum-esque" look to it, a subtle explosion of buff colored flowers. Do you know the original source of this plant from your friend?
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At last allium tuncelianum is starting to flower today :P,
...the seeds of allium hissaricum are more than beautiful (I think....)
Glad to see A. tuncelianum in flower, a fascinating species all around, I LIKE IT! I agree Weitse with the appearance of Allium hissaricum in seed; plump and attractive, like bunches of little Granny Smith apples (a green apple variety).
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Some photos from today and yesterday;
Allium pskemense in holland is already flowering
is allium szovitsii correct?? (Grown from seed USA)
allium cupanii now flowering for a week or two (darker colour than in the begin of flowering)
a. saxatille we have in 3 colours, one is not flowering yet
2 different forms of a. cernuum
a. sativum var ophioscorodum not flowering but with nice curly stem.
a. azureum and a. macranthum
Weitse, nice to see the mass of a low white-flowered A. cernuum. Years ago I grew A. szovitsii from a reliable source, it was a very weak slow grower, and when it modestly bloomed it keyed correctly. I no longer have it; so it's hard to comment on whether your's is true or not, you'll have to compare with the original botanical description.
Regarding Allium ledebourianum, I said it before and I'll say it again, I have never met a plant that I could rely on being the true plant. If indeed A. ledebouriaum is out there, and with it being so close to A. schoenoprasum, that much of what is out there in horticulture may be hybrids. The two species are separated on the length of the filaments and the pedicels. The drawing from Flora of China demonstrates the filament length difference (see below) and an extract from the botanical key describing what separates the two species.
Flora of China; drawing comparing Allium schoenoprasum and A. ledebourianum.
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60290&flora_id=2
Allium schoenoprasum:
Pedicels unequal, shorter than to nearly as long as perianth; filaments 1/3--1/2(--2/3) as long as perianth segments
Allium ledebourianum:
Pedicels subequal, 1.5--3 × as long as perianth; filaments longer than perianth segments.
Dried plant:
http://www.agroatlas.ru/en/content/related/Allium_altyncolicum/
Paper by Nicolai Friesen, Peter Hanelt, and others, on Allium altyncolicum and its relationship to A. schoenoprasum and ledebouriaum.
In this taxonomic paper, look at the flowers of A. ledebourianum (images f-g), which are upright hemispherical heads that look different than the "shuttlecock" shaped heads of A. schoenoprasum (that look occurs because of the unequal length pedicels).
http://www.biologie.uni-osnabrueck.de/bogos/wir_ueber_uns/friesen/publications/altyncolicum.pdf
Shown are two photos of Allium altyncolicum taken in mid June 2011. Also shown, is Allium amplectans, nearly becoming a weed, but a lovely ephemeral one... the foliage and stems so skinny as to pose no threat to overpowering other plants, and cheerful heads of palest pink flowers. Shortly after flowering the whole affair dries up quickly and disappears.
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Mark
I turned your Allium amplectans lt pink
Roland
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Mark
I turned your Allium amplectans lt pink
Roland
Actually, the way it was growing, with the stems sideways under the weight of the flowers and after lots of rain, was correct. Same thing with the photo above it, where I photographed the reclining stems.
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Some Alliums blooming on this hot hot day.
photos 1-3 Allium sphaerocephalon var. bulbilliferum, a slender miniature form with tiny knobs of bright cranberry red, and only a few bulbils, more so in some individuals. 12-16" (30-40 cm) tall. Grown from 1993 AGS seedex as Allium sp. Haute Provins, France (received bulbils). Very well behaved, and growing 18 years in my garden in the same spot, has not made any aggressive spreading advances whatsoever, one of my "favs".
photo 4 Allium sphaerocephalon var. bulbilliferum, tiny in comparison to a large head of Allium cernuum.
photos 5-6 Allium kochii (syn: Allium vineale) - from Isle of Usedom, Baltic Coast, Germany, sandy areas, from Arnfried Abraham 1991. The name "kochii" is not accepted, lumped among many names into A. vineale, but I retain the name here as this is a slender tiny-flowered little thing, and in 20 years, has not spread the slightest.
photo 7 Allium sp. Caucasus - Magnar's fine little Allium again; I like how it becomes red and white as the umbels age.
photo 8-9 Allium ramosum - I'm fond of this tall, long-flowering summer species, much better than A. tuberosum in my opinion, and not as thuggish as tuberosum.
photo 10 Late flowers on a tall robust form of A. hymenorrhizum. I've had this one for almost 30 years!
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Some photos made today, summer alliums now are fully starting to flower in Holland
ampeloprasum 2011 7-8.JPG
ampeloprasum Purple Mystery 2 2011-7-8.JPG
ampeloprasum var babingtonianum 1 2011-7-8.JPG
ampeloprasum var babingtonianum 3 2011-7-8.JPG
fistulosum seeds 2011-7-8.JPG
oleraceum 2 2011-7-8.JPG
paniculatum minor 1 2011-7-8.JPG
spaerocephalon 2011-7-8.JPG
tuncelianum 1 2011-7-8.JPG
tuncelianum 2 2011-7-8.JPG
(edited by maggi to add file names so the search engine can find the photos :) )
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edited by maggi to add file names so the search engine can find the photos
I didn't know that, next time I will do it myself, thanks Maggi!
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Hi, Wietse, thank you! :)
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Wietse,
the "hedge" of the red A. ampeloprasum Purple Mystery is more than a dream. :P :P
Enjoy your pictures. So many different species and cultivars for the "gardendreams".
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what an allium fields!
This is Allium paczoskianum, from my friend S. Banquetow
Very nice A. paczoskianum Rafa, one I've seen lots of photos of but one rarely seen in cultivation, it has a "flavum-esque" look to it, a subtle explosion of buff colored flowers. Do you know the original source of this plant from your friend?
These plants are original collected in Aleksandrovskoe, Stavropol territory, Russia, and I grew by seeds, Sergey sent me some time ago. He has very interesting Caucasian Alliums.
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Allium insubricum doing very well here this week,
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Allium insubricum doing very well here this week,
Oooh, very nice!
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Magnar,
a very lovely colour. Hope you get seed for the exchange. ;D
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Some photos from today. There are still a lot of alliums flowering
ampeloprasum Hairy Friend 17-07-2011.JPG
ampeloprasum Pink Lady 17-07-2011.JPG
angulosum 17-07-2011.JPG
flavum 17-07-2011.JPG
govanianum 17-07-2011.JPG
This allium I received as seed. It Looks like allium tuberosum a lot, but this one is flowering 3-4 weeks earlier, and is much higher then a. tuberosum. I dont think it's a. govanianum, but I don't know what it is then.
lencoranicum 17-07-2011 1.JPG
pulchellum Olympic Mist 17-07-2011 2.JPG
round spaerocephalon Italy 17-07-2011 2.JPG
This allium I found in Riva Italy by the Lake Garda. It looks a lot like a. spaerocephalon, but it's flowering about 3 weeks later and it has completely round flowers, What could this be???
senescens 17-07-2011.JPG
texanum 17-07-2011.JPG
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Looks like allium guttatum
Roland
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Nice series Wietse!
Is the A. pulchellum 'Olympic Mist' originally from Paige Woodward at Pacific Rim Nursery? I grew plants from her identified as Allium flavum var. tauricum "blue florm" or some such identification; looked just like yours, a densely-flowered head of maroon-purple color with a bluish cast, a striking color. Some plants were a milk white with a blue-purple tinge... they were clearly forms of Allium pulchellum; both lovely unique colors. They only persisted a couple years with me, sadly I no longer have it.
Allium govanianum is a synonym of Allium humile, from China, India and Pakistan. Allium humile is listed as having scapes 5-25 cm; you guess correctly that your plant is probably misidentified. I've grown many forms of Allium tuberosum, they can vary quite a bit, including stem height, and bloom time can vary by a few weeks, but generally they are late summer bloomers. Your plants might me A. ramosum, which blooms mid summer. Can you take a close-up photo of the flowers, and a leaf cross-section closeup?
Regarding Allium sphaerocephalon, it is also highly variable, although mostly represented by one form mass-produced by bulb growers. There are 4 subspecies, and indication just how variable the plants are. Brian Mathew in his "A Review of Allium section Allium" monograph says "A. sphaerocephalon exhibits a considerable amount of variation". The flower head is described as "spherical, or broadly ovoid", thus they can be round shaped as in the plant you show, or the oblong egg-shaped head that we customarily see with the mass-produced form. Between the 4 varieties of A. sphaerocephalon, the flowering period is collectively given as May-September (although June-July is most typical). Variation...variation...variation.
Going through Flora Italiana, the only species your plant is likely to be is Allium sphaerocephalon... check out the numerous photos in the link below (scroll down to see them), it illustrates quite a bit of variation, including fully round-headed forms. Note that flowering time is given as May to August.
http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_sphaerocephalon.htm
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Looks like allium guttatum
Roland
I don't see any A. guttatum in that series of photos. :-[
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We received a few years ago seed from the U.S.A. as allium cneorum, and we were told it woud be the nord-american form of a. obliquum. (NARGS seed list 2002-2003). After growing a few years we saw it was different from obliquum in a lot of things:
bulbs of obliquum are pinkish and cneorum was pure white
flowering of cneorum is 2-3 weeks later than obliquum
obliquum has much bigger flowers
obliquum is much higher
So, seeing the difference, with the story, some buyers wanted to sell it in there catalog.
We never checked if name or story were correct..... sorry
Wietse, I'm late getting back to this, but I wanted to stress the importance of trialing many forms of a species and observing variation (and of course, trying to exempt the misnomers from the process). When I see the comparison of Allium obliquum above, I am reminded of Allium cernuum:
bulbs of cernuum are typically red, but go from blood red, to pink, to white.
flowering time of cernuum, depending of form, spans 8 weeks of difference
cernuum has forms with very large flowers, to medium, and small flowers.
cernuum has giant (tall) forms, medium height forms, to dwarf forms.
I could say the same about many alliums, such as A. saxatile, stellatum, flavum, pulchellum, paniculatum, ericetorum (I have a nice robust form coming into bloom soon), and most others.
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Quiz time!
Look at the following link for Allium narcissiflorum in Flora Italiana; it shows some wonderful clumps of this fine allium in mountain scenarios; scanning through the included images, can everyone spot the misidentification that somehow slipped into their presentation of photos ;)
http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_narcissiflorum.htm
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Looking through Flora Italiana again, they have a good gallery of Allium trifoliatum, showing some variability in the plants.
http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_trifoliatum.htm
Going back to my investigation of what was the underlying species of the Kwekerij De Schullhorn Allium 'Cameleon', I had narrowed it down to the most probably ID as Allium longanum, a species very closely related to A. trifoliatum.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5164.msg202959#msg202959
Looking through the A. trifoliatum gallery, I must say there is strong resemblance to the 'Cameleon' selection, with both A. longanum and A. trifoliatum having some forms that age from white to pink, and the broadish basal leaves that are "fringed" with cilia.
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Mark - Are Allium insubricum and narcissiflorum hardy with you? I have grown both from seed many many times and invariably get Allium cyathophorum v. farreri.
johnw
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Mark - Are Allium insubricum and narcissiflorum hardy with you? I have grown both from seed many many times and invariably get Allium cyathophorum v. farreri.
johnw
Yes John, they're both hardy (the true species), although I have a very hard time growing them, and invariably lose them, mostly to heat and drought I think. When I lived near Seattle Washington, I grew a number of forms of each, and I saw spectacular large clumps in some gardens, mine never grew quite so luxuriantly >:(
From a SRGC member who shared seed with me last summer, I have a good crop of seedlings coming along this year, I hope that I found a cool enough location for the seedlings to prosper.
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Nice series Wietse!
Is the A. pulchellum 'Olympic Mist' originally from Paige Woodward at Pacific Rim Nursery? I grew plants from her identified as Allium flavum var. tauricum "blue florm" or some such identification; looked just like yours, a densely-flowered head of maroon-purple color with a bluish cast, a striking color. Some plants were a milk white with a blue-purple tinge... they were clearly forms of Allium pulchellum; both lovely unique colors. They only persisted a couple years with me, sadly I no longer have it.
Allium govanianum is a synonym of Allium humile, from China, India and Pakistan. Allium humile is listed as having scapes 5-25 cm; you guess correctly that your plant is probably misidentified. I've grown many forms of Allium tuberosum, they can vary quite a bit, including stem height, and bloom time can vary by a few weeks, but generally they are late summer bloomers. Your plants might me A. ramosum, which blooms mid summer. Can you take a close-up photo of the flowers, and a leaf cross-section closeup?
Regarding Allium sphaerocephalon, it is also highly variable, although mostly represented by one form mass-produced by bulb growers. There are 4 subspecies, and indication just how variable the plants are. Brian Mathew in his "A Review of Allium section Allium" monograph says "A. sphaerocephalon exhibits a considerable amount of variation". The flower head is described as "spherical, or broadly ovoid", thus they can be round shaped as in the plant you show, or the oblong egg-shaped head that we customarily see with the mass-produced form. Between the 4 varieties of A. sphaerocephalon, the flowering period is collectively given as May-September (although June-July is most typical). Variation...variation...variation.
Going through Flora Italiana, the only species your plant is likely to be is Allium sphaerocephalon... check out the numerous photos in the link below (scroll down to see them), it illustrates quite a bit of variation, including fully round-headed forms. Note that flowering time is given as May to August.
http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_sphaerocephalon.htm
I can't remember where my Olympic Mist came from, But I think I bought it from Nijssen- Heemstede.
Thanks for al the information. I will call my a.govanianum: "tuberosum Large form" from now on. I have a. ramosum to, but that one is much different from a. tuberosum in a lot of things, and my 'govanianum' looks a lot as a. tuberosum in many ways.
Same with a. spaerocephalon round. It is almost the same as the "normal"allium spaerocephelon, but then with round flowers, so I wil call this on: spaerocephalon "round form" from now on.
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Too hot to do much gardening and weeding today, 92 F (33 C), drenched from sweat just walking around taking pictures and watering a bit. A couple Alliums caught my eye, the extra good form of A. caeruleum I got from Denver Botanic Garden has gone by, but the sphere of light blue pedicels still show nicely. Second is a tall form of Allium flavum.
Last are two shots of the remains of Allium oreophilum 'Torch'; the dried heads with stems attached tend to blow around the yard, so I put a rock on the gathered dry stems to let them mature naturally. Just checked, and while the heads look very dry, the capsules inside are still green and juicy, with 1-3 plump seeds inside... I'll wait another week before sowing seed in situ around the parent clump.
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Last are two shots of the remains of Allium oreophilum 'Torch'; the dried heads with stems attached tend to blow around the yard, so I put a rock on the gathered dry stems to let them mature naturally. Just checked, and while the heads look very dry, the capsules inside are still green and juicy, with 1-3 plump seeds inside... I'll wait another week before sowing seed in situ around the parent clump.
How high is your a.flavum growing??, and my second question:Do you always sow allium seeds direct after they are dry??
I keep all allium seed dry and hot (25oC) in the greenhouse and sow them arround the first of november. That way they don't come out before februari and they don't suffer to much from winter/frost
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Mark - I too have to ask how tall your A. flavum is? Ours is about a foot high.
johnw
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Regarding the "tall flavum", I got this from a friend Mike Huben, a daylily hybridizer but all-around plant purveyor, and when seeing plants in his dry, sandy garden, I couldn't believe how tall his Allium flavum plants were, measured as 26" (65 cm) tall! In my garden, they have not grown as tall, only just reaching 20" (50 cm)... I just dashed out with a flashlight and tape measure to get an accurate measurement. John, most of my A. flavum plants are between 12"-16" (30-40 cm).
He also had an extraordinarily tall growing Allium senescens montanum (probably a hybrid) that was nearly 4' (1.3 m) tall, most impressive, but once again in my garden it has not approached those dimensions... I'm led to conjecture maybe there is some sort of mineral or nutrient in his soil that is causing such unusually tall growth?
With Allium seed, I normally do what you do Wietse, sow in winter. Alliums with larger rounded seeds (melanocrommyum types, many western american species, species like victorialis, and others) can be sown now, immitating nature. But you're right, some seeds might germinate to their detriment in the autumn, but most seed will wait until spring. I've had good luck sowing seed of Allium oreoprasum 'Torch' in the ground immediately when ripe, otherwise this one almost never increases for me, or increases too slowly, so I've been able to enlarge the colony from direct seed sowing.
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Mark,
Your A. flavum is a stunner :o
Here are two Allium:
A. sandrasicum from seeds collected in Antalya.
The second is from seeds i have collected in Cyprus, seems to be a form of A. guttatum which is rare on the island, it has small inflorescence of less than 2cm.
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Cool, on both accounts, A. sandrasicum with its silly hat, and the little lime green one... I suppose an immature or small variant A. gutattum, cute as a button!
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I have this Allium that I grew from seeds many years ago. Would be very nice if anybody could identify it. I have no records of it's origin.
Pics if the whole plant, and closeups of the flowers and leaves. The plant is about 40 cm tall.
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This looks very much like Allium prattii (Pale form) which I had identified a few pages back:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6685.msg206560#msg206560 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6685.msg206560#msg206560)
If it is, it also explains where my plant came from as I had various Allium sp. (Ex-Magnar) on this bed :)
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This looks very much like Allium prattii (Pale form) which I had identified a few pages back:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6685.msg206560#msg206560 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6685.msg206560#msg206560)
If it is, it also explains where my plant came from as I had various Allium sp. (Ex-Magnar) on this bed :)
Hei Stephen, yes it sure looks like prattii. I had not noticed the earlier postings about it. It's been here for quite some years and sets seeds every year. Nice to have a name.. Thanks :)
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I second Stephen's ID as Allium prattii. And it's a handsome pale form with dark stamens, a good one!
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I second Stephen's ID as Allium prattii. And it's a handsome pale form with dark stamens, a good one!
There will be seeds in the autumn for anyone interested . :)
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I got this allium about 15 years ago as either an A. cyaneum or A. sikkimense. The original clump has grown in its through since I got it, and it blooms well each year. The first picture shows this plant in 2009, the second picture is of a much younger plant, and the third a detail of the younger plant, both taken this year. It has grass-like leaves, grows to 10-15 cm (4-6 in), and starts blooming mid to late July.
Is it an A. cyaneum or an A. sikkimense, or neither?
Thank you,
Knud
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I got this allium about 15 years ago as either an A. cyaneum or A. sikkimense. The original clump has grown in its through since I got it, and it blooms well each year. The first picture shows this plant in 2009, the second picture is of a much younger plant, and the third a detail of the younger plant, both taken this year. It has grass-like leaves, grows to 10-15 cm (4-6 in), and starts blooming mid to late July.
Is it an A. cyaneum or an A. sikkimense, or neither?
Thank you,
Knud
It looks like a. sikkemense to me, maby a. beesianum??
I post from each a photo ( a. cyaneum and a. beesianum)
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I also think it is sikkimense. My sikkimense is about to start blooming now, while beesainum not will be in bloom till September up here, and cyaneum some time in between those two. .
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I got this allium about 15 years ago as either an A. cyaneum or A. sikkimense. The original clump has grown in its through since I got it, and it blooms well each year. The first picture shows this plant in 2009, the second picture is of a much younger plant, and the third a detail of the younger plant, both taken this year. It has grass-like leaves, grows to 10-15 cm (4-6 in), and starts blooming mid to late July.
Is it an A. cyaneum or an A. sikkimense, or neither?
Thank you,
Knud
Knud, I differ with the previous responses. The distinctions between A. cyaneum and A. sikkimense (and beesianum) are simple, if the stamens are well exserted, it is A. cyaneum, if the stamens are included, it is Allium sikkimense (or beesianum)... this a tried and true simplification for blue-flowered allium plants from China in cultivation, but there's more to the story, so see earlier discussion on the same topic in the link below. Your plant is Allium cyaneum, in a lovely form, most definitely not sikkimense. There are foliar differences too, and here again your plant is a match for A. cyaneum.
This whole page on SRGC - Allium 2010 thread is pertinent to the Allium cyaneum vs. sikkimense topic:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg160040#msg160040
...so is this page:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg159809#msg159809
mini-key to differentiate A. cyaneum, sikkimense, beesianum:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg159956#msg159956
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One of Mark's links went to a thread about Allium forrestii. Arisaema kindly sent me a bit last year and it started flowering last week, much smaller than I'd expected, here it is:
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I got this allium about 15 years ago as either an A. cyaneum or A. sikkimense. The original clump has grown in its through since I got it, and it blooms well each year. The first picture shows this plant in 2009, the second picture is of a much younger plant, and the third a detail of the younger plant, both taken this year. It has grass-like leaves, grows to 10-15 cm (4-6 in), and starts blooming mid to late July.
Is it an A. cyaneum or an A. sikkimense, or neither?
Thank you,
Knud
It looks like a. sikkemense to me, maby a. beesianum??
I post from each a photo ( a. cyaneum and a. beesianum)
It is indeed a. cyaneum I can see now! sorry
My a. cyaneum has a much darker colour??!!
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One of Mark's links went to a thread about Allium forrestii. Arisaema kindly sent me a bit last year and it started flowering last week, much smaller than I'd expected, here it is:
Stephen, it looks like both of us were on the receiving end of Arisaema's generosity. I was so excited to see two buds of A. forrestii coming along earlier this season, unfortunately both were damaged, the stems nearly severed in half with the shriveling remnants dangling, perhaps cutworms got to it. The plants themselves still look good, small with distinctively silvery-blue leaves, just as in your photo. I'm so glad to see that it flowered for you.
Trying to keep stuff watered here, the next few days predicted to be near 100 F (37 C) after a long stretch of hot days, my A. henryi is budded, one of the rare blue-flowered Chinese species. Last year, as I recall only 2 stems survived being nipped off, probably by a rabbit of groundhog that have moved into the yard.
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Mark
It seems you have to invite us for a rabbit barbecue soon
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i394/Indiana101/cartoon-emoticons-smiley-face-large-grin-eco-friendly-tees_design.png)
Roland
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Mark
It seems you have to invite us for a rabbit barbecue soon
Roland
I'm happy to arrange such an event, and we can throw in a groundhog, some squirrels, and a soupçon of chipmunks; served shish kabob style. ;D
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I just went out looking for my a. cyaneum and I could make some (if I may say so) beautiful photos........
A. Cyaneum.
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some more allium flowering today....
a. amethystinum
a. Dark Eyes
a. carinatum
a. carinatum Album
a. oleraceum
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And again some more....
a. scabriflorum
a. schubertii seeds
a. Hairy Friend cutting for flowers
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Wietse: Your range of Alliums is never-ending....Fantastic!
Mark: There are advantages of living in the north - none of these creatures to contend with and even deer are rare in my garden. Sorry to hear that your forrestii didn't make it to flowering.
Thanks also for your fantastic article on all the Alliums you dream about (in the NARGS journal). Shame most of them are impossible to get. You end with a hint that you will be continuing the quest for the dream onions for another 40 years. Best news all week month!
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NARGS journal just arrived here so enjoying Mark's second allium article.
Long life to Mark and the onions, I say!
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some more allium flowering today....
a. amethystinum
a. Dark Eyes
a. carinatum
a. carinatum Album
a. oleraceum
Good stuff Wietse! Great closeup of A. amethystinum. I see no bulbils in the inflorescences of Allium carinatum, so these are actually the non-bulbilliferous form or Allium carinatum ssp. pulchellum. The deep pink form is an excellent color form.
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And again some more....
a. scabriflorum
a. schubertii seeds
a. Hairy Friend cutting for flowers
Weitse, OH MY GOODNESS, you're growing A. scabriflorum!!! What a beautiful specimen, one of the very few blue-flowered "drumstick" onions, and a most excellent form of it too. Please tell us more about where this one came from, someplace in Turkey I'm sure, bout would like to know the details. Why is this desirable species not better known and distributed in cultivation... I am most envious :P
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NARGS journal just arrived here so enjoying Mark's second allium article.
Long life to Mark and the onions, I say!
Thanks Maggi, glad I got this done while I was unemployed, never would have finished it otherwise!
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This evening I was walking and looking between the alliums, and I saw something special in the flowering seedlings of a. macranthum;
a pure White flower!! It's not a very good photo because it's already getting dark outside a little. I think it's a beauty
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So pretty! Will you lift it right away to separate it from the purple forms?
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So pretty! Will you lift it right away to separate it from the purple forms?
I will mark the plant and seperate it end of august, because the weather will be better than for re-planting allium.
although you wouldn't say with al the cold and wet weather we have had here for the last 3 weeks.......
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And again some more....
a. scabriflorum
a. schubertii seeds
a. Hairy Friend cutting for flowers
Weitse, OH MY GOODNESS, you're growing A. scabriflorum!!! What a beautiful specimen, one of the very few blue-flowered "drumstick" onions, and a most excellent form of it too. Please tell us more about where this one came from, someplace in Turkey I'm sure, bout would like to know the details. Why is this desirable species not better known and distributed in cultivation... I am most envious :P
Again this is an allium I bought from Janis Ruksans, and I must say it is a real beauty (again).
In 2008 I got 2 bulbs and this year I have about 20 flowers, so that will be 20 bulbs to harvest. It looks like a. scabriflorum is an very easy growing allium. I don't know anyone else who has this allium. (in Holland)
I don't wait for the seeds to be good, because till now I had only a few bulbs and I couldn't take the risk to lose them by harvesting the bulbs to late!
The second reason I don't wait for the seeds is because this allium is very late and it's almost the last one standing in a empty field...
Maby I have to plant it next year between the "plantforming" alliums instead of the "bulbforming" one's.
To know more about where this allium is comming from; maybe Janis Ruksans will tell us.............
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NARGS journal just arrived here so enjoying Mark's second allium article.
Long life to Mark and the onions, I say!
Mark: Very good article about allium!!. Again learning a lot....
Is there a way to get these spectacular allium's from the photo's in your article??
a. shevockii :P, a. glandulosum :P, a. prattii(red) :P, a. nanodes :P, a. hierochuntinum :P, a. atrosanguineum(black :P :P and yellow) :P :P, a. chrysanthum :P, a. hamedanense :P.
I would very very very much try to grow such beautiful alliums in these nice colours!!!
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Allium flavum Tall Form flowers now
This one is over 60 cm Tall
with a nice strong flower-stem
But hardly multiplying
I try this year to harvest the seeds
Roland
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Knud, I differ with the previous responses. The distinctions between A. cyaneum and A. sikkimense (and beesianum) are simple, if the stamens are well exserted, it is A. cyaneum, if the stamens are included, it is Allium sikkimense (or beesianum)... this a tried and true simplification for blue-flowered allium plants from China in cultivation, but there's more to the story, so see earlier discussion on the same topic in the link below. Your plant is Allium cyaneum, in a lovely form, most definitely not sikkimense. There are foliar differences too, and here again your plant is a match for A. cyaneum.
Thank you, Mark for a very decisive identification, and very useful links. Thank you also Magnar and Wietse for you contributions, with photos. I sowed A. sikkimense from SRGC-seed this year, and the leaves of the three seedlings that resulted are already twice the height of my mature A. cyaneum. Magnar, I got my A. cyaneum as a plant from Gunvor and Jostein Øverås' Fjellhagen in the mid-90s.
Thanks again,
Knud
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This evening I was walking and looking between the alliums, and I saw something special in the flowering seedlings of a. macranthum;
a pure White flower!! It's not a very good photo because it's already getting dark outside a little. I think it's a beauty
Oh Wietse, that is so special! But even your regular form of A. macranthum is special, much darker than what I've grown. Sadly, with last year's record-breaking heat and drought, one of my treasures, Allium macranthum from a Ludlow and Sheriff collection in Bhutan 1990, expired in the extreme drought. :'( I've grown this fine form for 20 years, and now its gone. I did share a piece with John Lonsdale a couple years back, so maybe he still has it going. Any way, A. macranthum is a most unique and desirable species, and I mourn the loss of this pedigree pale pinkish form.
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Hey mark.
I have some A. macranthum from you. I'll have a look and see if mine is still kicking.
Arnold
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In my previous posts I promissed to show some native alliums.
Just came back from the country house whre the summer alliums were in full bloom. Will share some picture, though unfortunately I don't now the species names.
species 1 - tall allium with dark purple flower, height 150 cm, diametre of bloom 7,5 - 8 cm
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species 2 - height 60 - 65 cm, dimatre of bloom 3 cm
species 3 - interesting drarf white allium, cuttie
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Hey mark.
I have some A. macranthum from you. I'll have a look and see if mine is still kicking.
Arnold
That would be wonderful Arnold... I would so grateful, keep me informed if they set seed... my plants rarely (almost never) set seed!
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species 2 - height 60 - 65 cm, dimatre of bloom 3 cm
species 3 - interesting drarf white allium, cuttie
Thanks for posting these Zhirair, really lovely alliums. Do you have a photo of the foliage on this first species you posted, foliage necessary information to arrive at a potential identification.
The second allium, with dark color and white filamentous ciliate exserted stamens fits the description of A. fuscoviolaceum, described as having heads up to 3 cm, stem height 40-70 cm, and flowers that smell of dung or rotting meat! Aside from the scent, it seems to be a match, A. fuscoviolaceum is from E. Turkey, Transcaucasia, Azerbaijan, to Iran... certainly in your area. It's a dark brooding Allium, most handsome I think!
The third allium looks like a form of A. albidum, maybe even var. caucasicum.
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After weeks of rain, at last we have some sun again today.
We had a lot of problems harvesting al the bulbs because of the rain, but now al tulips are lifted and we are almost ready cleaning and making ready for export, so now we have some more time for our alliums again.
I just made some photos and wil post them here
carinatum pink is a better growing selection (selected from seed). In the two photos of lenkoranicum you can see also selections from seed, but they look very different than my true a. lenkoranicum. Are they other varities??
garden view 28-07-2011
a. carinatum pink 28-07-2011
a. carinatum true 28-07-2011 3
a. lenkoranicum 28-07-2011 1
a. lenkoranicum 28-07-2011 6
a. Summer Drummer 28-07-2011 2
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And some more photo's.......
a. wallichii dark 28-07-2011 1
a. wallichii 28-07-2011 1
a. tuncelianum 28-07-2011 (end of the flowering period :'()
a. scabriflorum 28-07-2011 1
a. nutans 28-07-2011
a. macranthum White 28-07-2011 1
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These later blooming alliums are an eye opener. I hope we will see seed from some of them on the SeedEX this year. They can really fill the gap when most other perennials are finishing
Mark, great article in the NARGS journal.
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I bought this as Allium serra
but I have my doubts
they started two weeks ago to flower
Roland
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I bought this as Allium serra
but I have my doubts
they started two weeks ago to flower
Roland
Roland, that's a low growing form of Allium paniculatum; I've grown many such nice little reddish forms of A. paniculatum.
My plants of Allium serra slowly died out over the years. Here's what Allium serra looks like:
http://www.calflora.org/cgi-bin/species_query.cgi?where-calrecnum=232
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/img_query?rel-taxon=contains&where-taxon=Allium+serra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Allium_serra.jpg
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AmericanAlliumsFive
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Thanks Mark
My A. paniculatum starts almost flowering
but are 80-90 cm tall
I have never seen these tiny A. paniculatum
Roland
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Mark - Do you think this is indeed Allium beesianum?
johnw
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Allium sp. China, I do not know that species to be, in the label indicated like to A. prattii ???
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Allium sp. China, I do not know that species to be, in the label indicated like to A. prattii ???
Hi Alessandro, this is Allium wallichii. By the way, there is an Allium 2011 topic that's ongoing. Cheers :)
I tried doing a search on Allium wallichii in that thread, then discovered the recent photos of two color forms have a typo where it is listed as "wallachii" so it didn't come up in the search, but here's the link:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6685.msg209427#msg209427
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These later blooming alliums are an eye opener. I hope we will see seed from some of them on the SeedEX this year. They can really fill the gap when most other perennials are finishing
Mark, great article in the NARGS journal.
Thanks for your comments Jamie, there are so many summer blooming Alliums, and a surprising number of fall bloomers, that it is easy to expound on their virtues.
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Mark - Do you think this is indeed Allium beesianum?
johnw
Could be A. beesianum or sikkimense depending on the length of the tepals, measure the petal length and let us know ;)
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg159956#msg159956
Tepals 6-10 mm...................... Allium sikkimense
Tepals 11-14 (17) mm............... Allium beesianum
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Thanks Mark
My A. paniculatum starts almost flowering
but are 80-90 cm tall
I have never seen these tiny A. paniculatum
Roland
Roland, I have grown dozens of forms of Allium paniculatum. Four varieties are described with dozens of synonyms, it is among the most variable Allium species. And there are dozens of closely related species too; it's a difficult group to be sure. They range in height from dwarfs, most typically medium sized plants to 16-18" (40-45 cm) to much taller forms. I had a lovely white-flowered form, with greenish-beige brown edges to the tepals, growing 75-80 cm, but lost it one year when a fox was digging in the garden burying his prey (a crow). Often the red-flowered forms arrived misnamed as A. kermesinum, protensum, and other completely unrelated species.
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If I remember well this tall Allium paniculatum
was collected by Antoine Hoog
and is flowering for months
although green it looks good in the border
Roland
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I have moved replies 304 and 305, above, into this thread :)
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Any idea what species this is? From Mugecuo Lake, Kangding, Sichuan, about 3900m. Ordinary, drop-shaped bulbs, i.e. not elongated like A. prattii.
ETA: Probably A. xichuanense?
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Thanks Mark
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Some nice
butterfly's Alliums from today....
allium senecsens
allium ametystinum
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Any idea what species this is? From Mugecuo Lake, Kangding, Sichuan, about 3900m. Ordinary, drop-shaped bulbs, i.e. not elongated like A. prattii.
ETA: Probably A. xichuanense?
Arisaema, a VERY interesting allium! Your tentative ID of A. xichuanense seems very close indeed, with the exception is the stamen length. In FOC, the stamens are described as "filaments equal, equaling to 1.3 × as long as perianth segments", but in the first photo I'd say the filaments are up to 2x as long as the perianth segments. But looking briefly at the key, I don't see other likely options. How tall are the flowering stems?
By the way, what's the blue-flowered plant next to it? Looks like an enticing member of the Gentianaceae.
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Some nice butterfly's Alliums from today....
allium senecsens
allium ametystinum
Agreed, some very nice alliums butterflies! It's one of the best features of summer blooming allium, their irresistible attractive to pollinators! Both the A. senescens forms and A. amethystinum are a lovely sight.
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Is it usual for Allium senescens var montanum to flower later than A.senescens?
I was surprised to see them flowering now in the Netherlands when mine are still in buds en I live 1000km more South where the climate is warmer.
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Arisaema, a VERY interesting allium! [...] But looking briefly at the key, I don't see other likely options. How tall are the flowering stems?
By the way, what's the blue-flowered plant next to it? Looks like an enticing member of the Gentianaceae.
Interesting is probably the best way to describe it, can't say I'm a huge fan... (It's tasty, at least ;D ) The tallest scape is 55 cm, probably due to it being well-fed. Not sure what species the Gentiana is, looks close to G. atuntsiensis, but with 315 species to choose from I haven't bothered trying to key it.
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Is it usual for Allium senescens var montanum to flower later than A.senescens?
I was surprised to see them flowering now in the Netherlands when mine are still in buds en I live 1000km more South where the climate is warmer.
My allium senescens is the first to flower, but almost the same time, maby a week later, senescens montanum is flowering followed by senescens Glaucum. In the photo posted below you can see senescens Glaucum, senescens montanum and senescens from left to right.
(they are a little mixed up with seedling allium and a. tuberosum)
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Thank you Wietse.Nice to seen all three together.
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My Allium senescens montanum is still not quite in flower, but the various asiatic A. senescens I have have been in flower for perhaps 3 weeks. I understand that they are no longer recognised as the same species.
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Caught my Allium wallichii flowers emerging during a warm day here yesterday. The first two were taken in the morning, the others in the evening...
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I haven't seen this one posted here before, if indeed it is Allium galanthum (NARGS seed from 2007). The flowers are just appearing now. The leaves are fistulose.
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I presume this is Allium carinatum pulchellum - it looks much more robust than the mother plant which died last winter, probably as it's growing on its own with plenty of space...
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Caught my Allium wallichii flowers emerging during a warm day here yesterday. The first two were taken in the morning, the others in the evening...
A super series of pix, Stephen. Artisitic, informative... and the flower colour is scrumptious! 8)
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Caught my Allium wallichii flowers emerging during a warm day here yesterday. The first two were taken in the morning, the others in the evening...
A super series of pix, Stephen. Artisitic, informative... and the flower colour is scrumptious! 8)
I'll second that motion, Stephen really terrific photos on your A. wallichii opening up... with enough moisture this summer, the seedlings from your seed are growing well. Nice pulchellum form too. That does look like A. galanthum, not the most earth-shaking allium species, but useful for such late flowering and at close-hand, the flowers are modestly pretty :D
Now I'm late for work :P
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Interesting is probably the best way to describe it, can't say I'm a huge fan... (It's tasty, at least ;D ) The tallest scape is 55 cm, probably due to it being well-fed. Not sure what species the Gentiana is, looks close to G. atuntsiensis, but with 315 species to choose from I haven't bothered trying to key it.
If it's tasty and you get fed up with it, I'll look after it for you ;)
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Allium atroviolaceum is in flower the last 2 weeks, sown early 2007, seed from Sergey Banketov in the Caucasus:
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Need help with this one, received as Allium heldreichii
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I have one bud on Allium wallichii. Yesterday (or maybe the day before) the spathe was green and I thought it would be a while before it opened. After seeing Stephen's photos today I had a look and the spathe is open and yellowing and the purple flower buds showing. It should be fully out tomorrow.
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Need help with this one, received as Allium heldreichii
I think your a. heldreichii is correct ( if mine is correct to.......see photo)
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Allium atroviolaceum is in flower the last 2 weeks, sown early 2007, seed from Sergey Banketov in the Caucasus:
Your allium atroviolaceum looks like allium erubescens, allium rotundum and allium jajlae I grow, but again I do not know if mine are correct
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Need help with this one, received as Allium heldreichii
Looks like A. heldreichii to me :)
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Allium atroviolaceum is in flower the last 2 weeks, sown early 2007, seed from Sergey Banketov in the Caucasus:
Your allium atroviolaceum looks like allium erubescens, allium rotundum and allium jajlae I grow, but again I do not know if mine are correct
It is often easier to determine what something isn't versus what it actually is. Stephen, I don't think what what you show as A. atroviolaceum is correct, but then again, I don't know what it is. Weitse, your plant doesn't look like A. erubescens; perhaps more like Allium rotundum ssp. jajlae.
To give an impression of what Allium atroviolaceum looks like, I have uploaded a number of images from the Taxonomic Allium Reference Collection at IPK Gatersleben, with the fair use provision... don't forget, it's a terrific resource, although currently the site is showing an extreme slowness issue, and it takes 1-2 minutes for the image thumbnails to show up... all the more reason to sample a few images under fair use and post them here. There are 48 records for Allium atroviolaceum on IPK, so lots to look at. There were a few records that showed plants with variable color (some where greenish or nearly white with purple midveins, but most are a dark rosy purple and look rather similar).
http://pgrc-35.ipk-gatersleben.de/pls/htmldb_pgrc/f?p=265:1:2795605647522881
Images 1-4 are closeups of Allium atroviolaceum, there is a distinctive look to the spherical head, with the filaments splayed outwards sideways once exserted from the flowers. The buds are also distinct (Image #5, shows its close relationship with Allium ampeloprasum).
Image 6-7 show Allium erubescens, it has segments (tepals) that are "markedly outward-curved at the tips" (differing it from A. rotundum without such outward-curved tepals). It has a unique stamen arrangement, looking like a sea anemone, with very broad cone-like bases to the stamens that 90 degree reflex and splay out horizontally. It's a lovely species, wish I still had it. Here again, both images are posted here under the fair use provision, the first from IPK Gatersleben, the second is a scan from Brian Mathew's "A review of Allium section Allium".
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Advice needed from an 'Alliologist';
This morning I received plants of A. scabriscarpum originating from both Turkish and Iranian collections. They appear to be barely bulbous (a thick fibrous 'tunic' around a narrow bulb with a lot of obviously perennial roots). Although clearly summer-dormant they were packed dampish presumably to prevent the perennial roots drying out. My question is - will these plants stand a dry summer in a pot? My feeling is they would be better in a bulb frame with some moisture at depth, or even planted out in a dryish spot. Any advice?
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Thanks very much Mark and Weitse! My ”atroviolaceum” has quite spherical heads about twice the diameter as Allium jajlae which is growing nearby (and long past flowering). I’m pretty sure that the buds were ampeloprasum-like but I’ll have to wait to next year to be sure. The leaves also look similar to the Gatersleben plants. Looking through the latter, they are quite varied in size of head and other details. In my plant (second picture the filaments are a bit splayed). It’s not unlike TAX1372 in the Gatersleben pictures, from Georgia. Mine is also from Georgia collected by Banketov, a botanist. So, I’m not convinced it’s not atroviolaceum. However, it could also be wishful thinking...
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A couple of new pictures of Allium wallichii today fully out...
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4 Allium this week in my garden:
Allium ovalifolium, flowers and foliage
Allum sp , seeds collected at 4100 meter in Sichuan 2005 by Jurasek.
Allium sp identified in this thread as possibly kunthianum karsianum
Allium sikkimense
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4 Allium this week in my garden:
Allium ovalifolium, flowers and foliage
Allum forrestii , seeds collected at 4100 meter in Sichuan 2005 by Jurasek.
Allium sp identified in this thera as possibly kunthianum karsianum
Allium sikkimense
Magnar, you grow some of the best Alliums! That's a very fine form of A. ovalifolium, but more than that, it looks to be A. ovalifolium var. leuconeurum, a variety distinct on account of the white leaf midvein. Great looking leaves on that on.
I believe the one labeled as A. forrestii looks like it is actually a form of the variable A. sikkimense.
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4 Allium this week in my garden:
Magnar, you grow some of the best Alliums! That's a very fine form of A. ovalifolium, but more than that, it looks to be A. ovalifolium var. leuconeurum, a variety distinct on account of the white leaf midvein. Great looking leaves on that on.
I believe the one labeled as A. forrestii looks like it is actually a form of the variable A. sikkimense.
Thanks for the info.. Yes, when I check now I see the seeds have obviously been misidentified by Jurasek
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I believe the one labeled as A. forrestii looks like it is actually a form of the variable A. sikkimense.
just what I thought Mark
but it's a nice coloured clump
Roland
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A couple of new pictures of Allium wallichii today fully out...
Stephen, it's such a beautiful form of A. wallichii. Now I'm impatient to see my petite seedlings grow up and flower.
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No real summer in Holland, a lot of rain and most time teperatuur somewhere between 17 and 22 oC.
But ofcourse there are always alliums flowering.
I post some photos made today
a. tuberosum and a mini tuberosum form
a. lenkoranicum (late flowering one from seed)
a. spaerocephalon (round / late form)
a. backhousianum dry seeds
a. nutans (and some others in the picture)
a. schoenoprasum Album (second time flowering this year)
a. senescens montanum
a. senescens seedling
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I've had this Allium for years and am still puzzled as to what it is. It came from a good friend who was gardener of the herb garden at Hardwick Hall near Chesterfield. It was growing in the herb garden and for all I know may still be there. It is very tall and slender and flowers in June. What do the experts think?
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I've had this Allium for years and am still puzzzled as to what it is. It came from a good friend who was gardener of the herb garden at Hardwick Hall near Chesterfield. It was growing in the herb garden and for all I know may still be there. It is very tall and slender and flowers in June. What do the experts think?
I think it's a very nice allium, but as I am not an expert, I have no idee what it can be.....
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Allium sikkimense is a beauty
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I've had this Allium for years and am still puzzled as to what it is. It came from a good friend who was gardener of the herb garden at Hardwick Hall near Chesterfield. It was growing in the herb garden and for all I know may still be there. It is very tall and slender and flowers in June. What do the experts think?
Stephen my family live a stone throw from Hardwick,i could see if one of them could find out for me.
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Thanks, that would be great. I asked my friend who no longer works there, but he couldn't remember...
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I've had this Allium for years and am still puzzled as to what it is. It came from a good friend who was gardener of the herb garden at Hardwick Hall near Chesterfield. It was growing in the herb garden and for all I know may still be there. It is very tall and slender and flowers in June. What do the experts think?
I think it is Allium hymenorrhizum.
(your variety looks like it might be var. truncatifolium ;D)
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A few nice Allium vineale in the wild... with my apartment in the background ;D
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I think it is Allium hymenorrhizum.
(your variety looks like it might be var. truncatifolium ;D)
Yes, of course, I think you've done it again! I actually have 2-year old Allium hymenorrhizum from 3 different sources in the garden, but they haven't flowered yet, so I guess I would have eventually solved my own mystery! We'll see how similar they are... Thanks, Mark! Strange to find it in a herb garden though!
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A few nice Allium vineale in the wild... with my apartment in the background ;D
Hello xthomasx, I believe your Allium to be A. oleraceum, most commonly found in this coppery color form. It's actually a safe enough one to cultivate, one that I like very much, unlike A. vineale which is considered invasive. Your apartment area in the background looks like and idyllic setting, lovely to be sure.
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A few nice Allium vineale in the wild... with my apartment in the background ;D
Hello xthomasx, I believe your Allium to be A. oleraceum, most commonly found in this coppery color form. It's actually a safe enough one to cultivate, one that I like very much, unlike A. vineale which is considered invasive. Your apartment area in the background looks like and idyllic setting, lovely to be sure.
Probably you are right :-[ Thanks for the correction.
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Mark: It's not often I disagree with you :), but I regretted introducing Allium oleraceum in a garden bed as the bulbils got everywhere and it took many years to eradicate. Probably not as bad as vineale, but still invasive.
It is reckoned to be a noxious weed in Arkansas according to http://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch (http://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch)
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Probably not as bad as vineale, but still invasive.
I killed all A. vineale in one go with round up 400
not my favourite but this year not a single plant :D
Roland
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Probably not as bad as vineale, but still invasive.
I killed all A. vineale in one go with round up 400
not my favourite but this year not a single plant :D
Roland
The problem with round up ( glyfosaat ) is you kill all plants standing where you spray, so that is not always an option!
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I took out the interesting plants first
and replanted them without soil
but you are right
it isn't always an option
but I was happy this time
I thought It would cost me years
to get rid of them
Roland
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Mark: It's not often I disagree with you :), but I regretted introducing Allium oleraceum in a garden bed as the bulbils got everywhere and it took many years to eradicate. Probably not as bad as vineale, but still invasive.
It is reckoned to be a noxious weed in Arkansas according to http://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch (http://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch)
Well, it can come down to specific garden environment and climate, and specific forms of the species, as in the 24 years at my current location, I've never had more than perhaps a dozen plants of A. oleraceum... my particular form a coppery color form from North Africa. On the other hand, Allium carinatum (the type bulbilliferous species, not the lovely ssp. pulchellum) is a weed that I've been unable to fully eradicate. Even so, it's not nearly as bad as A. vineale.
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Another Chinese onion, this one from NW Yunnan, about 2500m. Crappy pics, but hopefully someone'll recognize it. Could it be A. mairei?
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Another Chinese onion, this one from NW Yunnan, about 2500m. Crappy pics, but hopefully someone'll recognize it. Could it be A. mairei?
It looks like a. mairei to me.
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It looks like a. mairei to me.
Thank you, I'll get a new label for it :)
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Looks like A. mairei to me too, a species found in Yunnan.
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Some photos from today:
a. ramosum (still flowering!)
a. amphibolum (flowers for the second time this year)
a. senescens Glaucum
a. tuberosum
a. daghestanicum
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Does someone know this allium?
It looks like allium ramosum and like allium tuberosum, but it is not one of them!!
They flower al summer starting in juni and going on until oktober
Plants are about one meter high
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Does someone know this allium?
It looks like allium ramosum and like allium tuberosum, but it is not one of them!!
They flower al summer starting in juni and going on until oktober
Plants are about one meter high
Wietse, I'd say that it is Allium tuberosum, the species is variable. At one time, I grew dozens of forms from various botanical gardens and including USDA (United States Dept. of Agriculture) germplasm depository, and they varied a lot, some were rather tall, and blooming time varied too. I liked a couple forms that had stronger red mid nerves on the backs of the tepals, but even these proved too aggressively seeding in the garden. All that I have left now is a moderate sized form, coming into flower now, in spite of trying to get rid of this species for years! Although, just noticed today, from 2005-2006 NARGS Seed Exchange seed as A. govanianum (humile), I end up with yet another A. tuberosum, this one growing about 75 cm tall (show below).
One characteristic that stands out for me with A. tuberosum, is the dense head of seed capsules, and the fact the species is apomictic the individual florets go to seed quickly so you end up with an inflorescence that has both flowers and developing seed capsules at the same time. I also believe that a number of ploidy levels occur with the species.
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Does someone know this allium?
It looks like allium ramosum and like allium tuberosum, but it is not one of them!!
They flower al summer starting in juni and going on until oktober
Plants are about one meter high
Wietse, I'd say that it is Allium tuberosum, the species is variable. At one time, I grew dozens of forms from various botanical gardens and including USDA (United States Dept. of Agriculture) germplasm depository, and they varied a lot, some were rather tall, and blooming time varied too. I liked a couple forms that had stronger red mid nerves on the backs of the tepals, but even these proved too aggressively seeding in the garden. All that I have left now is a moderate sized form, coming into flower now, in spite of trying to get rid of this species for years! Although, just noticed today, from 2005-2006 NARGS Seed Exchange seed as A. govanianum (humile), I end up with yet another A. tuberosum, this one growing about 75 cm tall (show below).
One characteristic that stands out for me with A. tuberosum, is the dense head of seed capsules, and the fact the species is apomictic the individual florets go to seed quickly so you end up with an inflorescence that has both flowers and developing seed capsules at the same time. I also believe that a number of ploidy levels occur with the species.
Sorry, I forgot I asked before about this allium, But I looked back and found your answer. (Below I made a copie of it), But as I read you gave some more options for the name.....
Allium govanianum is a synonym of Allium humile, from China, India and Pakistan. Allium humile is listed as having scapes 5-25 cm; you guess correctly that your plant is probably misidentified. I've grown many forms of Allium tuberosum, they can vary quite a bit, including stem height, and bloom time can vary by a few weeks, but generally they are late summer bloomers. Your plants might me A. ramosum, which blooms mid summer. Can you take a close-up photo of the flowers, and a leaf cross-section closeup?
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With your latest series of photos and closeups, it looks much more like A. tuberosum than ramosum. I suppose there is a possibility its a hybrid between the two, the bloom period of each can overlap, I too have had late rebloom on A. ramosum when A. tuberosum starts coming into bloom. Seeing the flowers closeup, they are short, wide-open and starry just like tuberosum, and don't look like the more campanulate flowers of A. ramosum. Maybe what you have here is a polyploid A. tuberosum.
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A friend send me thi Allium pictures from Morroco, and I've attached the email from Mark.
anyy suggestion welcome ;D
"The Allium from Morocco is intriguing, and you labeled it well as probably belonging to the "Allium paniculatum group". I have looked in the only reference that covers Morocco; "A Revision of the Genus Allium L. (Liliaceae) in Africa" by Brigitta De Wilde-Duyfjes. The only possibility for Morocco is the identification is A. paniculatum, but as pointed out in this reference (and remembering that the author is a taxonomic "lumper"), there are many MANY synonyms (most from Morocco and Algeria) such as A. paniculatum ssp. mauritii, ssp. breviscapum, var. grandiflorum, var. rifanum, var. excedens, var. brachyspathum, var. stenanthum, A. antiatlanticum, A. valdecallosum, A. pallens var. purpureum, and many others.
Your Allium looks somewhat unique among "paniculatum" types by having narrow funnelform flowers that are nearly truncate at the ends, like many forms of Allium pallens, a very close ally to A. paniculatum. The Wilde-Duyfjes reference (which is extensive at 237 pages) is from 1976, so potentially outdated, and who knows if there have been some separate small taxonomic revisions in the ensuing years.
So, whatever it is, it's a very attractive small onion; I like the red stem too. Have you posted this on SRGC to the Allium 2011 topic, it would be good to put it up there, and you can include my response there as well. "
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What's this? Growing in a quagmire alongside Primula secundiflora at around 4000m altitude near Zhongdian.
There was a wide-leaved species growing nearby as well, although on drier ground shaded by (recently chopped down) firs. I guess A. ovalifolium?
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Pretty onion, I believe it might be Allium humile var. trifurcatum (A. trifurcatum in Flora of China), from NW Yunnan (Zhongdian).
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=240001065
http://www.flickr.com/photos/duckuly/5969457230/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/duckuly/5968900387/in/photostream/
I agree with A. ovalifolium on the last photo.
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Thank you, Mark! Fingers crossed there'll be seeds left next month... ;)
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Mark, you may remember the following discussion of a nice form of Allium sikkimense and you asked me to look out for seed. I remembered this year and I just had a look and it has mostly bulbils, picture enclosed. Ill see if I can salvage a couple of seeds...
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg163783#msg163783 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg163783#msg163783)
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I got this one as Allium canadense fraseri. Is it this or just another tuberosum...
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I got this one as Allium canadense fraseri. Is it this or just another tuberosum...
Correct, it is A. tuberosum. Allium canadense and its varieties are spring bloomers. Here's some links on A. canadense var. fraseri (sometimes regarded its own species, A. fraseri).
Flora of North America key to varieties of Allium canadense:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=242101341
Allium canadense var. fraseri in FNA
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=242102142
Allium canadesnse var. fraseri at lady Bird Johnson Wildflower site:
http://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=ALCAF
Flower closeup:
http://www.wildflower.org/gallery/result.php?id_image=26544
Reticulated bulb coats closeup:
http://www.wildflower.org/gallery/result.php?id_image=4419
Another link:
http://www.bulbsociety.org/GALLERY_OF_THE_WORLDS_BULBS/GRAPHICS/Allium/Allium_canadensefraseri/Allium_canadensefraseri.html
Herbarium specimen:
http://w3.biosci.utexas.edu/prc/specimens/img/038AlliuCanFra00038561.JPG
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Mark, you may remember the following discussion of a nice form of Allium sikkimense and you asked me to look out for seed. I remembered this year and I just had a look and it has mostly bulbils, picture enclosed. Ill see if I can salvage a couple of seeds...
My A. beesianum does that... has a few tiny bulbils that are inconspicuous while in full bloom, but after flowering and the capsules start developing, the few bulbils sprout green shoots. I do believe that most allium species can show forms with the ability to produce a few sprouting bulbils, I have even found these in species like A. flavum, cernuum, senescens, and Melanocrommyum alliums, although these occurrences are rare.
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Cruising around YouTube, I'm finding more videos of interest for gardeners. Came across this one show rows of Allium atropurpureum jostling around in the breeze, a beautiful sight, and the plants looking very healthy... all that I've tried growing from Dutch grown sources so far have been virused.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs_wr0I5FKk[/youtube]
Another one, Allium unifolium in mass quantity:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hgBOZDyaB0[/youtube]
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With me started blooming autumn Alliums - some unidentified Chinese species, some from Georgia and Allium textile - pictures of last are attached here.
Janis
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With me started blooming autumn Alliums - some unidentified Chinese species, some from Georgia and Allium textile - pictures of last are attached here.
Janis
Janis, sorry to report, but that is not Allium textile, a spring bloomer from many western American States. Your plants look like a form of Allium senescens var. glaucum, although I can't see much of the habit and foliage.
Allium textile, a particularly robust pure white form, from Bozeman, Montana, USA
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Allium_textile_%282%29.jpg
Normally A. textile is fewer-flowered and with whitish flowered and red, green, or brownish mid veins, such as shown here.
http://www.em.ca/garden/native/nat_allium_textile.html
http://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=ALTE
http://www.wildflower.org/gallery/result.php?id_image=4460
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_t4MIXLdITZw/TCEOVKvzlmI/AAAAAAAAGxQ/LmxuDIwyPvg/s1600/Textile+Onion+Allium+textile.JPG
I'm not sure why such a common and widespread North American Allium species is so often incorrectly identified. Many photos on the internet labeled as A. textile simply are not correct. The single photo entry from CalPhotos labeled as A. textile is wrong. And take a look at the following page, with terrific high quality photos of a couple Alliums from Colorado that are rarely pictured (Allium macropetalum, and a pure white version of A. nevadense), they include a portrait of a 3rd onion, namely A. textile, the problem is they show a picture of A. macropetalum and not textile! There is a map at the bottom showing the distribution of Allium textile.
http://www.swcoloradowildflowers.com/white%20enlarged%20photo%20pages/allium.htm
As I've seen the species in the wild, extremely abundant in Idaho but also abundant in many other western USA States, it is a rather small species, usually less than 6" (15 cm), and few-flowered not-very-showy umbels of whitish flowers, I consider it of marginal interest; there are so many better and brighter North American species.
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With me started blooming autumn Alliums - some unidentified Chinese species, some from Georgia and Allium textile - pictures of last are attached here.
Janis
Janis, sorry to report, but that is not Allium textile, a spring bloomer from many western American States. Your plants look like a form of Allium senescens var. glaucum, although I can't see much of the habit and foliage.
Allium textile, a particularly robust pure white form, from Bozeman, Montana, USA
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Allium_textile_%282%29.jpg
Normally A. textile is fewer-flowered and with whitish flowered and red, green, or brownish mid veins, such as shown here.
http://www.em.ca/garden/native/nat_allium_textile.html
http://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=ALTE
http://www.wildflower.org/gallery/result.php?id_image=4460
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_t4MIXLdITZw/TCEOVKvzlmI/AAAAAAAAGxQ/LmxuDIwyPvg/s1600/Textile+Onion+Allium+textile.JPG
I'm not sure why such a common and widespread North American Allium species is so often incorrectly identified. Many photos on the internet labeled as A. textile simply are not correct. The single photo entry from CalPhotos labeled as A. textile is wrong. And take a look at the following page, with terrific high quality photos of a couple Alliums from Colorado that are rarely pictured (Allium macropetalum, and a pure white version of A. nevadense), they include a portrait of a 3rd onion, namely A. textile, the problem is they show a picture of A. macropetalum and not textile! There is a map at the bottom showing the distribution of Allium textile.
http://www.swcoloradowildflowers.com/white%20enlarged%20photo%20pages/allium.htm
As I've seen the species in the wild, extremely abundant in Idaho but also abundant in many other western USA States, it is a rather small species, usually less than 6" (15 cm), and few-flowered not-very-showy umbels of whitish flowers, I consider it of marginal interest; there are so many better and brighter North American species.
Many thanks, Mark! I never checked its name and grew it under name as I got it during my lecture trip to North America. Tomorrow will picture foliage. Thanks for correcting.
Janis
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I truly wasn't expecting this Allium to be alive. The bulb had gone dormant and was sitting in a sodden mess of a mix. The roots were quite alive and the bulb was just fine. What a strange pink twin bulb with fish netting. It must grow in wet screes?
Allium species ACE#94-2394, cw Gang-ho-ba, Lijang, China3450m to 70cm, in screes - identified by Mark McDonough as Allium ovalifolium var. leuconeurum 28 May 2011. Shot pre-cleaning off the dead roots.
Meanwhile Allium species ACE#94-2430 (may be A. hookeri StephenB SRGC), cw Yulong Shan above Xi Song,China 3500m to 30cm seems to be setting seeds for the first time.
johnw - +25c and hot.
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Looking good John, healthy looking indeed, and sporting fish-net stockings :D Are you going to separate the bulbs or leave it as a twin?
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What a strange pink twin bulb with fish netting. It must grow in wet screes?
They are usually woodland species, aren't they?
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Good that you haven't lost that one John, such wonderful foliage I seem to remember.
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Wasn't sure where to place this.
Allium tuberosum w/ friends
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What a strange pink twin bulb with fish netting. It must grow in wet screes?
They are usually woodland species, aren't they?
Arisaema - The tag said collected in scree.
Brian - Yes the foliage is good. We've planted out the others and they've wintered well.
Mark - I left it as a twin as we have backups outdoors; if you'd like half and can figure out a way to get it to Massachussetts (will I ever learn how to spell that?) I'd be happy to take the clever to it. It seems to have gone dormant very early this year. Probably all the wet weather. The other species (hookeri?) has curious fasciated flower stalks.
Brian - The foliage from a posting sometime ago.
johnw
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Wasn't sure where to place this.
Allium tuberosum w/ friends
Great shot Arnold and which Eucomis is that? Have't seen one with pendulous flowers like that.
johnw - +20c at 10pm, fog drifting through the city but not here for a change.
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Mark - I left it as a twin as we have backups outdoors; if you'd like half and can figure out a way to get it to Massachussetts (will I ever learn how to spell that?) I'd be happy to take the clever to it. It seems to have gone dormant very early this year. Probably all the wet weather. The other species (hookeri?) has curious fasciated flower stalks.
johnw
I appreciate the offer John, but please don't divide it just for me; let it grow on and maybe it'll produce seed one day (seed between US and Canada can be exchanged).
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John:
It's Eucomis biccolor. Planted under a small tree and gets early morning sun. Came from Seneca Hill Perennials in New York State.
Here's a full size shot.
Arnold
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Allium anticipation!
The first two photos show plants received last autumn as an Allium thunbergii form collected by Dan Hinkley. The photos taken today show the tight bud clusters, and intermediate size of this form, one that I used to grow but eventually lost due to overcrowding, one that I keyed out to Allium sacculiferum, very close to Allium thunbergii and sometimes put into synonymy with it. It has much tighter globular heads than the typical open "flop-heads" of A. thunbergii.
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The next photo shows growing seedlings of an Allium sp. collected near Kalbinsky Hills, Kazakhstan 2010, by Panayoti Kelaidis. Ooh, I'm so optimistic... I received 23 accessions and most germinated and have been planted out. Some have gone dormant, but this one with thread-narrow foliage keeps on bulking up... can't wait to see what it is when it flowers.
[attachthumb=3]
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I really don't know how this has survived. It must have fallen from the lower tier of my staging and I only found it today when I was raking the gravel level under the staging where I had some trays of dormant bulbs through the summer. The only moisture it can have had is from seepage from the staging above it. Consequently it looks a little "beat up" and is a little past it's best but welcome all the same.
Allium senescens ssp montanum var glaucum
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today I received some seeds from allium siphonanthum???
original comming from china.
I looked on the internet, but only found a drawing/illustration.
Does anyone have a photo so I can see what I can expect?
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today I received some seeds from allium siphonanthum???
original comming from china.
I looked on the internet, but only found a drawing/illustration.
Does anyone have a photo so I can see what I can expect?
Weitse, there are no photos of this species that I can find, there are lots and lots of species of Allium for which there are no photos found on the internet :'(
So, what you'll have to do, is successfully grow it, bring it to flowering, verify its identify by comparing with the FOC key, then post photos for all to learn from :D
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I've missed much of the season this year, and now with days growing short and waning daylight, I don't get to see the garden until the weekend.
Just noticed last week (09-05-2011) that Allium callimischon ssp. callimischon was blooming, nearly swamped by Oenothera fremontii. This particular Oenothera is taprooted and not stoloniferous, although the radial stems go 2' in each direction so make a robust circular plant 4' (1.3 m) across! I do like it however, for the extra large yellow flower that continue until frost, each flower fading to orange by morning. I plan on moving the Allium to some spot with less competition and where I can better enjoy at close hand its small dimensions.
Sorry about the poor quality photo, it was nearly dark, and the digital camera I've been using (shared with my daughter) has now traveled with my daughter for her freshman year in college, so I'm using my telephone's built-in camera... 8 megapixel but with very limited presets and configurations, takes good photos indoors but terrible one in the landscape.
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Seedlings of Allium fedtschenkoanum from Kazakhstan... I will be a happy man if they survive and mature to show gorgeous golden-yellow flowers as seen in the following links:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg173205#msg173205
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7511.msg206332#msg206332
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I've grown a number of Mexican species over the years collected by the late Thad Howard, a few species no longer with me. Several have proved very hardy. The following one was simply listed as Allium sp. collected Oaxaca, Mexico in moist soil... I believe it is Allium subteretifolium. It only flowered once of twice about 10 years ago, can't remember what time of year it flowered, had few-flowered umbels of white dark-veined flowers. For these past years it grows and increases happily outdoors in the ground, but NEVER blooms.
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Another poor quality photo taken in low light, late flowering forms of Allium stellatum at their peak now.
[attachthumb=4]
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A couple of shots of a Red Admiral butterfly on Allium ericetorum last weekend:
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Starting my first year this year with Alliums,
Purple Sensation, nigrum, Purple Drumsticks. They will hopefully appear next season.
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Here are a couple of pictures of Alliums that flowered earlier this year in the garden.
The first one is a picture is of a nice form of Allium ovalifolium var. leuconeurum.
The second came to the garden as seeds of Allium nanodes which its not. I think that it could be a form of Allium ovalifolium.
The last a nice group of sikkimensis.
Johan
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Here are a couple of pictures of Alliums that flowered earlier this year in the garden.
The first one is a picture is of a nice form of Allium ovalifolium var. leuconeurum.
The second came to the garden as seeds of Allium nanodes which its not. I think that it could be a form of Allium ovalifolium.
The last a nice group of sikkimensis.
Johan
Johan, each specimen you show is superb! That clump pf Allium sikkimensis is more than superb. I agree with you, the second photo IS NOT Allium nanodes, it is indeed a nice form of Allium ovalifolium.
John W., your ACE Allium labeled as A. nanodes is probably A. ovalifolium, based on it being an ACE Allium like Johan's.
Here are links to a photo of A. nanodes taken in China by Oron Peri.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5673.0;attach=230703;image
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5673.msg157775#msg157775
A. nanodes is almost stemless, here's a photo from Flora of China:
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=52118&flora_id=2
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Stephen, nice shots of your onion feeders! Your A. ericetorum is *very* late to flower, is it normally that late for you? I already collected seed on mine.
Katijah2 - once you try alliums you'll be hooked on them, they're such fun and interesting plants.
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Mark,
Here 2 more pictures of Allium got as "textile" pictured few days ago.
Janis
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Mark,
Here 2 more pictures of Allium got as "textile" pictured few days ago.
Janis
Janis, now seeing the foliage, the curling blue-gray leaves, pretty much confirms that this is Allium senescens var. glaucum... a pretty allium and certainly welcome for flowering this time of year, but obviously nothing to do with Allium textile. Thanks for following up with the foliage views. :)
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Mark,
Here 2 more pictures of Allium got as "textile" pictured few days ago.
Janis
Janis, now seeing the foliage, the curling blue-gray leaves, pretty much confirms that this is Allium senescens var. glaucum... a pretty allium and certainly welcome for flowering this time of year, but obviously nothing to do with Allium textile. Thanks for following up with the foliage views. :)
Many thanks, Mark!
Janis
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Stephen, nice shots of your onion feeders! Your A. ericetorum is *very* late to flower, is it normally that late for you? I already collected seed on mine.
Yes, it is definitely a September flowerer, the buds appearing mid-late August and in full flower for an extended period most of September (I can't recall seed maturing on it). My other ericetorum tentatively identified by you here flowers a month earlier:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg163892#msg163892 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5766.msg163892#msg163892)
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Mark,
Here 2 more pictures of Allium got as "textile" pictured few days ago.
Janis
Janis, now seeing the foliage, the curling blue-gray leaves, pretty much confirms that this is Allium senescens var. glaucum... a pretty allium and certainly welcome for flowering this time of year, but obviously nothing to do with Allium textile. Thanks for following up with the foliage views. :)
Many thanks, Mark!
Janis
My example, for refernce is in Post 389
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One of my clumps of Allium cernuum has started flowering again
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Although not much was in flower, here's the Allium collection (in a cold frame) at the Copenhagen Botanics in May....
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I tried to read some of the labels, can only make out a couple. But I do wonder, just how many species in the collection are Allium cyathophorum var. farreri? ;D
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My single bulb of Allium 'Gladiator' last year produced 5 flowering stems and one of these make a few bulbils among the dead flowers. The bulbils are well up in a pot and the single bulb has made 5 new bulbs!
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I tried to read some of the labels, can only make out a couple. But I do wonder, just how many species in the collection are Allium cyathophorum var. farreri? ;D
Judging by the fact that about 50% of the Allium species in the Order beds were wrong (rough estimate), I think there might well be quite a few duplicate farreris.
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The last Allium to flower here is Allium thunbergii (thanks to the identification here last year):
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I was at Kew Gardens last week. This sign was in the herb garden. Beware!
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I was at Kew Gardens last week. This sign was in the herb garden. Beware!
Too funny; "hotte and gross vapours" ;D
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An update to Allium aff. thunbergii DJH (Dan J. Hinkley) shown in bud in the post above; I was away traveling for a week to return to see the small colony in full bloom. To help compare typical Allium thunbergii (in the selection 'Ozawa') and the plant going around as Allium aff. thunbergii DJH (Dan J. Hinkley) which I believe to be A. sacculiferum, I have put some photos side by side.
The heads of A. thunbergii 'Ozawa' on the left, have fewer florets on pedicels that arch out and droop in an informal relaxed way. In the middle is a robust seedling from A. thunbergii 'Ozawa' with more dense heads on taller stems, yet the drooping nature of the florets is still seen. On the right is the Dan Hinkley selection going around as A. thunbergii but is closer to A. succuliferum in my opinion, the heads are densely flowered in firm spherical heads, without droopy pedicels.
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Here's a general view showing the clump of A. sacculiferum, along with a small Gentiana clausa on the left, and Saxifraga fortunei just starting to flower in the lower-center left.
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Allium callimischeon haemostictum
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WOW!!
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That's a cracker Michael.
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Michael, an outstanding form of Allium callimischon ssp. haemostictum, the best I've ever seen! What is the source of that form?
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WOW!!
Definitely, Michael! ;D
cheers
fermi
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What is the source of that form?
.
I got that one from Rannveig Wallace (Buried Treasure ) about ten years ago. I have a three pots full if anyone wants a few later when it dies back.
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I would love an onion or two, Michael if you haven't been bombarded with requests. I can give you a UK address to send it to..
Are you growing it under cover?
Here is one that I almost missed. Allium rupestre, seed from Sergey Banketov in Georgia in 2006:
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Stephen, nice seeing Allium rupestre, I have never seen this species in person. I like the green apices to each flower. Is it fragrant, and is it actually flowering now? If so, I didn't know it was a fall bloomer.
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What is the source of that form?
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I got that one from Rannveig Wallace (Buried Treasure ) about ten years ago. I have a three pots full if anyone wants a few later when it dies back.
Michael, do you get seed on that species? If so, I would dearly love to try it, and mailing a pinch of seed is certainly easier than sending bulbs overseas.
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I love the autumn alliums, and I'm happy to have found plants listed as Allium thunbergii alba at a local nursery this late summer, but in fact since it is such a small grower (about 3-4" tall, 7.5-10 cm) and fewer-flowered than most thunbergii forms, maybe this is a white form of Allium virgunculae instead. After drenching rains for several days, the flowers look perfect today.
View of Allium "thunbergii" or virgulculae alba with Saxifraga fortunei blooming in the background:
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Two closeup views showing the perky pure white flower clusters:
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Still waiting for the tiny Allium virgunculae to open its flowers, now still in tight bud, with flower stems at about 2" (5 cm) tall.
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A reliable old planting of Allium thunbergii 'Ozawa' planted at the base of a Magnolia tree.
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Two views of a tall form of Allium thunbergii sent to me by a friend last year.
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Some great onions being shown here.... 8)
Note to self; keep eye open for seeds of autumn onions in the Seed Ex!
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Stephen, nice seeing Allium ruprestre, I have never seen this species in person. I like the green apices to each flower. Is it fragrant, and is it actually flowering now? If so, I didn't know it was a fall bloomer.
Yes, it is flowering now. I'll give it a sniff tomorrow! Rupestre is the correct spelling isn't it?
Superb pictures, Mark!!
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Stephen, nice seeing Allium ruprestre, I have never seen this species in person. I like the green apices to each flower. Is it fragrant, and is it actually flowering now? If so, I didn't know it was a fall bloomer.
Yes, it is flowering now. I'll give it a sniff tomorrow! Rupestre is the correct spelling isn't it?
Superb pictures, Mark!!
I went back and fixed my typo, yes of course, it is A. rupestre... I was hasty in my my posting!
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Some great onions being shown here.... 8)
Note to self; keep eye open for seeds of autumn onions in the Seed Ex!
Often a difficult proposition, as the seed matures so late in the season, most years the pods succumb to fall/winter rains and snow and doesn't develop. Only occasionally does seed set, although if grown in a greenhouse, there might be more chance for seed.
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Two late autumnal bloomers
A. autumnale - endemic to Cyprus
A. chamaespatum from E. Crete
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Oron, are your growing these species, or are they photos of plants in the wild?
Recently when I was addressing a Pacific Bulb Society query looking for the identification of a yellow autumn blooming Allium from the Peloponnese, I started researching on google and found there are literally a couple dozen late summer to autumn blooming "species" in that general region of the world, many species named in the last 20 years, very interesting that there are so many of them.
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Mike
These are growing in my collection from seeds collected by me in the wild.
I grow five species of autumnal Allium from the region and as far as i know there is only one more which is not yet named from N.W Syria and S. Turkey.
Kees Jan posted a photo of it last year.
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Thanks Oron,
Here's a link to the message I posted to Pacific Bulb Society. You'll note that I included a number of links back to the great photos you and Kees have posted on SRGC. I listed 15 species which I believe are autumn bloomers in Greece and general Mediterranean region, although since some of the scientific texts are for purchase only (and expensive) I don't have detailed info on many of the species.
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/pbs/2011-September/031388.html
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Thanks Mike
In the E. Mediterranean we consider species that bloom in October- November as Autumnal species.
Species that bloom until August are considered as summer bloomers.
Usually, [depends on rain] there is a period of about two months in between where there aren't any allium in flower.
So i think some of the species mentioned in the list are considered to be summer bloomers and not autumnal.
There are a few similar forms/species from the different Islands, all resemble A. tardans and i suppose there is a need of farther research.
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I'm not including species that bloom until August, but rather include species that might start in late summer. But depending on geographical provenance, form or variety, and cultural conditions, ones such as Allium callimischon (I grow ssp. callimischon), which might start in late August but typically flowers in September or even October.
I was gathering up a bunch of links to some of the newer Grecian/Mediterranean allium species, here's a few links to autumn blooming species... I'll have to re-find more of the links I gathered one day, can't put my finger on all of them at the moment.
Allium brussalisii
http://www.mendeley.com/research/allium-brussalisii-alliaceae-a-new-species-from-greece/
Good PDF on Allium ritsii and other species. Here there is discussion on not only other early autumn bloomers, but some late flowering taxa (August-September) such as A. eivissanum and A. pentadaktyli.
http://www.landesmuseum.at/pdf_frei_remote/PHY_35_2_0247-0253.pdf
another good PDF on Allium apolloniensis (October blooming), and mention of three other fall species; Allium platakisii, Allium archeotrichon, and Allium aegilicum. The publishing authors call these plants "autumn blooming".
http://www.bgbm.org/willdenowia/w-pdf/wi36-1Biel+al.pdf
As I mention in the Pacific Bulb Society message, maybe the taxonomists are splitting hairs or they're slicing their onions too thinly, many species do seem similar. ;)
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Mark: I do believe you are making up Allium names on the fly. How else could there be 8 Allium species in one post I've never heard of before :)
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Mark: I do believe you are making up Allium names on the fly. How else could there be 8 Allium species in one post I've never heard of before :)
And there are dozens more too! :o :o
As I said, I think they slice their onions very thinly in that part of the world ;)
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Not a fall bloomer, but a PDF with good line drawings describing another Greek allium species, A. samothracicum, one that blooms in June-July. Described in 2000. There are oodles of recent-ish Grecian species.
http://curis.ku.dk/ws/files/17109870/ALLIUM_SAMOTHRACICUM_TZANOUD.pdf
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Here's another recently described (2009) autumn blooming Allium species, Allium telmatum from Croatia.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/bj79v271n47m5180/
...and yet more autumn blooming species, some I mentioned before, but others too,
with a map showing geographical distribution of the autumn-flowering species of Allium sect. Codonoprasum in the Mediterranean area: A. oporinanthum ( ); A. savii (●); A. anzalonei ( ); A. telmatum ( ); A. euboicum ( ); A. rausii (◆); A. platakisii (♢); A. aegilicum ( ); A. tardans (■); A. archeotrichon (▲); A. autumnale ( ); A. tardiflorum ( ):
http://www.springerimages.com/Images/LifeSciences/1-10.1007_s12224-009-9032-2-4
...(there are additional links at the bottom to a photo and drawiung of Allium telmatum)
This is interesting, an article abstract (the article for purchase) about a hybridization program with late flowering Chinese and Japanese allium species.
http://www.pubhort.org/actahort/books/673/673_15.htm
Allium oporinanthum, one of the autumn bloomers. I could not get a working URL for this particular PDF, so here's the PDF linked below:
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Here's Allium bodeanum, a first flowering for me and I was thinking it looked just like A. cristophii but it is shorter and much earlier,
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I got this as a "close to flowering size" bulb last year as previous attempts to raise it from seed were unsuccessful,
cheers
fermi
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Stephen, nice seeing Allium ruprestre, I have never seen this species in person. I like the green apices to each flower. Is it fragrant, and is it actually flowering now? If so, I didn't know it was a fall bloomer.
Yes, it is flowering now. I'll give it a sniff tomorrow! Rupestre is the correct spelling isn't it?
Superb pictures, Mark!!
Forgot to say, but I couldn't detect any fragrance, but I've had a bit of a cold, so it may be me...
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Now I have some time again for posting some photo's.
Al the planting of tulips and allium on the fields is ready, and next week we start planting the tulips on water-trays for flowerproduction in earley december.
Allium thunbergii and allium thunbergii "white", The last to flower
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I was very buzzy the last month
but here a question from an other forum
maybe Mark or Wietse know
looks a little as a white A. senescens
Roland
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I was very buzzy the last month
but here a question from an other forum
maybe Mark or Wietse know
looks a little as a white A. senescens
Roland
It looks like a form/seedling of allium nutans to me. Is it white or a little pink.
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I was very buzzy the last month
but here a question from an other forum
maybe Mark or Wietse know
looks a little as a white A. senescens
Roland
It looks like a form/seedling of allium nutans to me. Is it white or a little pink.
I agree with Wietse, the broad leaves, fully spherical heads of bloom, and what looks like wingd edges to the stems, all point to A. nutans. I have some all white forms that look very similar.
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Thanks Mark and Wietse
that was my second thought
because of the green leaves
but I had never seen a white one
Roland
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I was very buzzy the last month
Roland
Were you a bumble bee or a honey bee? ;D
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;D Bumble ;D
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I don't know if anyone's mentioned this project before - The
Karlostachys plants database project, assembling pictures of all the world's plants by different photographers. Here's the page for Allium; would be interested to hear the onion guy's opinion of the accuracy:
http://gardenbreizh.org/photos/karlostachys/album-17944.html (http://gardenbreizh.org/photos/karlostachys/album-17944.html)
I particularly thought Allium spicatum was very cool....
(http://gardenbreizh.org/modules/pix/cache/photos_480000/GBPIX_photo_488113.jpg)
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for me it looks more as Phyteuma spicatum
Roland
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I don't know if anyone's mentioned this project before - The
Karlostachys plants database project, assembling pictures of all the world's plants by different photographers. Here's the page for Allium; would be interested to hear the onion guy's opinion of the accuracy:
http://gardenbreizh.org/photos/karlostachys/album-17944.html (http://gardenbreizh.org/photos/karlostachys/album-17944.html)
I particularly thought Allium spicatum was very cool....
I think some of the alliums are wrong named:
Photo allium akaka = allium karatavience
photo allium fetisowii = allium fistulosum
photo allium macranthum = allium cernuum
photo allium schoeprasinum?????= allium schoenoprasum
photo allium spicatum = this is no allium
photo allium triquetrum single flower = no triquetrum
photo allium triquetrum in field = allium triquetrum
photo allium giganteum = not giganteum, but looks like a lot of other alliums
Maby there are more photos not right, but I don't know al of them
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I don't know if anyone's mentioned this project before - The
Karlostachys plants database project, assembling pictures of all the world's plants by different photographers. Here's the page for Allium; would be interested to hear the onion guy's opinion of the accuracy:
http://gardenbreizh.org/photos/karlostachys/album-17944.html (http://gardenbreizh.org/photos/karlostachys/album-17944.html)
I particularly thought Allium spicatum was very cool....
Stephen, maybe its a species brand new to science, Allium pseudophyteumanoides ssp. spiciformis f. male-descripta. ;D
Yup, its a Phyteuma. Wietse, I think you nailed all the other misnomers or "male descripta".
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:)
Shame, I did initially think Phyteuma which I grow myself, but I thought I could see Allium-like flowers and I can't see the upward curving bracts typical of that species. See (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Phyteuma_spicatum_ies.jpg)
Do you know what the real Allium spicatum looks like? How could one make a mistake like that?
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:)
Shame, I did initially think Phyteuma which I grow myself, but I thought I could see Allium-like flowers and I can't see the upward curving bracts typical of that species.
Do you know what the real Allium spicatum looks like? How could one make a mistake like that?
Well blow me away, all teasing aside, Stephen... I think you're onto something, you have a sharper diagnostic view than I. When you asked about what the real Allium spicatum, I look through the compendium "Nomenclator Alliorum" and there is nothing close to "spicatum", so next I charge over to INPNI.ORG, and find there is indeed an Allium spicata, named in year 2000, apparently a merging by Nicolai Friesen of Milula spicata (1895) into the allied genus Allium. Just checked The Plant List, and there is no genus Milula anymore (one of several anagrammatic names made by jumbling the genus name Allium).
And blow me away again, when I go look at images of Allium spicata (Milula spicata), I had no idea that an Allium relative of such divergent appearance existed.
http://www.biologie.uni-osnabrueck.de/bogos/wir_ueber_uns/friesen/publications/MPE99-0181.pdf
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027769
...detailed drawing:
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60725&flora_id=2
http://digital.nls.uk/indiapapers/browse/pageturner.cfm?id=75002608
Here's a youtube link for a video on Phyteuma spicata, definitely not a match for the plant in the Allium photo gallery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSJ5mrACFk0
Thanks so much Stephen for the gentle lesson, I shall try not to be so quick to jump to conclusions in the future! Now, has anyone grown Milula spicata, looks fascinating.
Parting thought: I'm totally puzzled with the taxonomy of current times, where some genera have been split up using extremely subtle micro-fine lines of division (Asters, Muscari, etc) and others show great leaps of faith in lumping (all alliums have umbellate inflorescences ((I know, I know, Allium monanthum typically has but 1 floret, rarely two)), now apparently with the exception of but one species, Milula spicata with a spike or spicate inflorescence) ::). Lumping of Nectaroscordum into Allium is similarly faulty for several obvious reasons, in my opinion.
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I have never seen a picture of Allium spicatum
Roland
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Here's quite a nice pic of it Mark http://www.planetefleurs.fr/Systematique/Liliaceae/Allium14b.htm
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Well blow me away, all teasing aside, Stephen... I think you're onto something, you have a sharper diagnostic view than I.
...just new reading glasses, Mark...
It gives me great pleasure to blow you away for a change!
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I'm thoroughly enjoying learning about all these new Alliums :-X
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Here's quite a nice pic of it Mark http://www.planetefleurs.fr/Systematique/Liliaceae/Allium14b.htm
Davey, an excellent photo, revealing much detail. After seeing the maturing inflorescence with seed capsules, I wonder about the botanical description of the inflorescense being spicate; I'd say it is umbellate not spicate, you can see the stem stop at the bunch of pedicels all connecting at the same central point... not continuing up with pedicels attached along the stem's length like it would be on a Muscari. Most likely the center florets have elongated pedicels that create the appearance of a poker-shaped head; certainly there are some alliums that present their flowers in upright fastigiate fashion due to elongated pedicels.
Exploring Dave's link, there are a few more photos. The photo showing a group of plants in flower shows this to be a charming plant, I'd like to try growing it!
http://www.planetefleurs.fr/Systematique/Liliaceae/Allium_spicatum.htm
Tibet, Népal. 2900 - 4800 m.
Looking at other photos at this site, I recognize some of the same photos as seen in the link Stephen gave:
http://gardenbreizh.org/photos/karlostachys/album-17944.html
Stephen, glad to send some delight your way ;D
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If it is a real Allium, I think it's a beauty, But is it stil Milula or do we have to name it allium now, just like nectaroscordum ???
Here's quite a nice pic of it Mark http://www.planetefleurs.fr/Systematique/Liliaceae/Allium14b.htm
In some way it looks like allium a lot..............
I only have some trouble to see allium without it's round flowers.....
I had been looking on the internet for allium spicatum, but couldn't find anything. Mark; you are much better in finding these things!
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If it is a real Allium, I think it's a beauty, But is it stil Milula or do we have to name it allium now, just like nectaroscordum ???
Here's quite a nice pic of it Mark http://www.planetefleurs.fr/Systematique/Liliaceae/Allium14b.htm
In some way it looks like allium a lot..............
I only have some trouble to see allium without it's round flowers.....
I had been looking on the internet for allium spicatum, but couldn't find anything. Mark; you are much better in finding these things!
Weitse, I am just a "google hound". ;D Of course, a spelling error in a name (spicatum vs. spicata) can make a big difference when searching, so I often use wildcards in my searches. Searching IPNI.ORG using a wildcard can work wonders. :D
Here's another interesting PDF, talking about the relationship of Allium spicata (Milula spicata) to some sections of the genus Allium. This was published in 2005, 5 years after Nicolai Friesen's taxonomic change to Allium (N. Friesen is amonth one of the top taxonomists involved withj Allium). After seeing the closeup photo the fruiting inflorescense with conventional umbellate structure, I can feel better about it being moved over to genus Allium.
http://www1.unifi.it/caryologia/past_volumes/58_4/58-4_1333.pdf
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After al the bulbs are planted we are starting sowing al seeds of allium.
This year we have seeds from 87 different alliums most in (very) smal amounts.
from a few alliums we sow a lot of seeds for bulb-selling in the future.
(allium tripedale, backhousianum and karataviense "Red Giant") in total we sow 32 kilo seed.
I post some photo's from the sowing
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Weitse, that's amazing! Looks like a tremendous amount of work. But I see that for you, as for me, that direct sowing in the open ground can be very effective.
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Very impressive seed-sowing!
We all know that collecting alliums can seem a bit kinky, but I didn't realise that it can be the alliums that are kinky too!
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cheers
fermi
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Weistse: 32 kilos of Allium seed is a serious amount!! Look forward to following their progress over the coming years...
Fermi: That isn't Allium flamingoensis is it?
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Fermi: That isn't Allium flamingoensis is it?
Stephen, I have looked and looked for this new species of yours but my eyes are turning pink looking at the screen so long! ;D
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You remember last time you didn't believe me, Mark! It's named for the bright pink bulbs which you can't see in Fermi's picture...
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Fermi: That isn't Allium flamingoensis is it?
Stephen,
you'd think it was - from these 2 examples - interesting that they have the same kinks! They are supposed to be Allium amethystinum - these ones are in a bit of shade and perhaps weren't sure which way to turn to reach the most sun? ;D
cheers
fermi
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After al the bulbs are planted we are starting sowing al seeds of allium.
This year we have seeds from 87 different alliums most in (very) smal amounts.
from a few alliums we sow a lot of seeds for bulb-selling in the future.
(allium tripedale, backhousianum and karatavience "Red Giant") in total we sow 32 kilo seed.
I post some photo's from the sowing
Nice to see my 'Red Giant' between your list of species sawn in great ammounts. Hope it will not loose my name as introducer ;D
Janis
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It grows well here Janis, better than other karataviense! I have raised it from seed of the bulb you sent me too.
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Nice to see my 'Red Giant' between your list of species sawn in great ammounts. Hope it will not loose my name as introducer ;D
Janis
we sow about 13 kilo seed from a mix of "Red Giant", "Red Globe", "Pink Globe", and "Pink Giant" crossed with "Ivory Queen", the normal karataviense, alexejanum and nevskianum.
The two pink 'karataviense' we discovered a few years ago between seed comming from crossing "Red Globe" and "Red Giant" with the normal karataviense.
The biggest problem with the "Red" is that they almost never get any ofset, and the also don't split in 2 or 3 bulbs, so the only way to get more is by growing seeds.
The "Pink" do split just like the normal karataviense!.
Now we try to find a "Red" karataviense witch gives ofsets or splits in 2 or 3 bulbs every year....and the only way to find such an allium is by sowing as much seeds as possible......... The first of the "Red Globe" and "Red Giant" bulbs are indeed comming from Janis, and if they get registrated we will not loose your name as introducer of course!!
The second photo shows a row of (most) "Red" karataviense and on the right some "Pink" karataviense
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Very nice collection
I just don't understand why it is called "Red"
For me (maybe I am colour blind)
Red is a completely other colour
How will you call in the future a plant
if you find a real red one :)
Roland
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Very nice collection
I just don't understand why it is called "Red"
For me (maybe I am colour blind)
Red is a completely other colour
How will you call in the future a plant
if you find a real red one :)
Roland
Of course Red Giant is not red; as a tulip........(photo), but it is one of the most "red" alliums there is and it is a very nice colour I think!!
Some other 'red' alliums are robustum or glandulosum?! In tulips we have maby 100 different colours of RED, and we call al of them red...
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The biggest problem with the "Red" is that they almost never get any ofset, and the also don't split in 2 or 3 bulbs, so the only way to get more is by growing seeds.
The "Pink" do split just like the normal karatavience!.
Now we try to find a "Red" karatavience witch gives ofsets or splits in 2 or 3 bulbs every year....and the only way to find such an allium is by sowing as much seeds as possible.
Sorry, but "normal" karataviense (if under word "normal" we regard wild forms) very rarely split. Really I didn't found such between wild plants. The forms which started splitting arised in cultivation. After many years of sawing between seedlings from plants collected at locus classicus - Kara Tau mountains - I faound few bulbs which splitted in two and now I'm growing progeny of just those specimens. Similarly split cultivar "Ivory Queen'. That I still never found between other stock seedlings.
Janis
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Sorry, but "normal" karataviense (if under word "normal" we regard wild forms) very rarely split. Really I didn't found such between wild plants. The forms which started splitting arised in cultivation. After many years of sawing between seedlings from plants collected at locus classicus - Kara Tau mountains - I faound few bulbs which splitted in two and now I'm growing progeny of just those specimens. Similarly split cultivar "Ivory Queen'. That I still never found between other stock seedlings.
Janis
Sorry, but That I didn't know.
Al the normal "cultivated" karataviense splits in 2 or 3 every year, and also the "Kara Tau" I bought from you is splitting every year with me in holland??, Ivory Queen has much smaller bulbs and flowers here, and is splitting mostley in 3 and sometimes in 4 bulbs.....
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Very nice collection
I just don't understand why it is called "Red"
For me (maybe I am colour blind)
Red is a completely other colour
How will you call in the future a plant
if you find a real red one :)
Roland
Of course Red Giant is not red; as a tulip........(photo), but it is one of the most "red" alliums there is and it is a very nice colour I think!!
In tulips we have maby 100 different colours of RED, and we call al of them red...
I am not talking about Tulips
where they call a purple tulip a Blue tulip (this is the same stupidity)
the question is why to call something a certain colour if it isn't that colour
Red is red in thousands colours
purple is purple in thousands coulours
for that we have a colour chart
I don't call a Fiat a Rolls-Royce because it has four wheels , breaks and lights
Roland
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Very nice collection
I just don't understand why it is called "Red"
For me (maybe I am colour blind)
Red is a completely other colour
How will you call in the future a plant
if you find a real red one :)
Roland
The one that I grow (maybe past tense... grew, this was not a good year for my few remaining bulbs) as A. karataviense 'Red Globe', apparently a provisional name before ssp. henrikii was published, certainly looks red to me, and I'm a nitpicker when it comes to flower color.
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PS: Interesting, looking at this photo on the forum from my laptop, the color is off and looks purple, but on my desktop PC the color looks accurate; a deep wine red.
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we sow about 13 kilo seed from a mix of "Red Giant", "Red Globe", "Pink Globe", and "Pink Giant" crossed with "Ivory Queen", the normal karatavience, alexejanum and nevskianum.
The two pink 'karatavience' we discovered a few years ago between seed comming from crossing "Red Globe" and "Red Giant" with the normal karatavience.
Weitse, I'll say it again, you blow me away with those fantastic rows of Allium karataviense,
simply stunning photos and pure allium perfection :o :o :o
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The one that I grow certainly looks red to me, and I'm a nitpicker when it comes to flower colour.
It gives people the change to manipulate pictures
like many "famous" mail-order company do
See the difference between the two pictures
Roland
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Wow, I love the top version of Blue Parrot, fabulous color ;D ;D
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I would'n tell yet, but there are red alliums.... ;D ;D ;D
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I would'n tell yet, but there are red alliums.... ;D ;D ;D
Excellent one Weitse, a natural red beauty, it would go nicely with this new red form of the typically white Allium neapolitanum, this rare variety named 'Vesuvius Molten Lava', the stunning flowers erupt most any time during the year ;D Notice that even the foliage is red!
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Both of these Alliums came from seed labelled as Allium amethystinum!
This one only flowered for the first time this year and appears to be closer to the descriptions and pics I've seen
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This one looks more like a cross between "chives" and "elephant garlic" - and half way between in size! I've asked previously about their ID and replies weren't conclusive as far as I remember.
These pics were taken today - the plants were more vigorous last year! At least 3' tall.
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What do the Allium-experts think? If the first one is the true Allium amethystinum - what is the second?
cheers
fermi
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Well I am not an Allium expert
but The first is how I know Allium amethystinum
the second could be Allium ampeloprasum var. ampeloprasum
Roland
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Both of these Alliums came from seed labelled as Allium amethystinum!
What do the Allium-experts think? If the first one is the true Allium amethystinum - what is the second?
cheers
fermi
The first one is allium amethystinum, or "Forelock" as you can buy it in Holland.
The second one looks very much like allium acutiflorum to me.
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I think Forelock is an Allium amethystinum
Because most of them where multiplied by seed
I find it difficult to name them
Many are so different
so why name them with a name
if they aren't the same
For me plants with a name must be identical
The Forelock you buy in the shop sure aren't
Roland
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Thanks! That was quick!
I guess the mix up must've been because of the similarity in the names ???
But guess which one produced the seeds I sent into the SRGC Seedex as A. amethystinum! :o
Better luck for more accurate seed next year! More seed too hopefully,
cheers
fermi
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Fermi, the first one looks correct as A. amethystinum. One the second one, I can't tell what the foliage looks like, whether the foliage is from intermingled plants. Can you take a closeup of the foliage, and describe it as well. Cound be A. acutiflorum, but I'm not sure, need to see some foliage.
(Note: I swear, I only saw Fermi's ID question then responded, because I use the link in the email notification, and didn't notice the subsequent responses from other Allium fans. But after seeing the IDs, I concur with Wietse, as per my initial reaction :) )
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I think Forelock is an Allium amethystinum
For me plants with a name must be identical
The Forelock you buy in the shop sure aren't
Roland
I agree with you that "Forelock" is an amethystinum, and you are also right that Allium "Forelock" plants/flowers are not identical, But I think the name Forelock is was standing for a product as cutflower in the beginning, and later it came as bulb for everyone to buy.
In the cutflower business it is important to have a good name, so people will remember the name of the product and know what to buy next time, and everybody knows it when they hear the name.
We do the same with some alliums, only in bulb selling we use true/pure bulbs grown frome one bulb and not by seeds.
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So the solution is easy
Fa. Duin makes a good clone in A.amethystinum
and calls it Forelock
stop selling mixed A.amethystinum as A. Forelock
Problem solved
Roland
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I was sent this bunch of Allium scorodoprasum from an old population in Bergen. But, what is the onion at the bottom of this picture? A deviant or something else? The formation of bulbils half way up the scape of some varieties of garlic (such as Thermidrome) is well known and are called "stress-onions" over here, but I can't remember seeing this on other species?
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I was sent this bunch of Allium scorodoprasum from an old population in Bergen. But, what is the onion at the bottom of this picture? A deviant or something else? The formation of bulbils half way up the scape of some varieties of garlic (such as Thermidrome) is well known and are called "stress-onions" over here, but I can't remember seeing this on other species?
It looks to me that the "Old" bulb, the one that was planted, has been growing up with the leaves.
I think when you get it of, you see it has no growing point but only some left over from the planted bulb.
You can see also the left over bulb below (with roots) is very small, much smaller than the other bulbs in the bunch.
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I guess the mix up must've been because of the similarity in the names ???
But guess which one produced the seeds I sent into the SRGC Seedex as A. amethystinum! :o
Better luck for more accurate seed next year! More seed too hopefully,
I've since realised that the mix up was my own fault! Mark McD had ID'd the Allium acutiflorum for me last year but when I divided up teh pot of A. amethystinum I got the names mixed up and promptly labelled the seeds I'd collected from A. acutiflorum as A. amethystinum! :-[
If anyone has already ordered the A. amethystinum from the current SRGC Seedex please send me a PM and I'll rectify it for them.
cheers
fermi
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My Allium amethystinum, collected in Turkey.
Janis
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Allium acutiflorum
AS - from Arnis Seisums. smaller, more delicate form
Garlic - from Marc's seeds very long ago (as "Garlic seed exchange" arranged by him), larger and more robust plant.
Janis
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Allium acutiflorum
AS - from Arnis Seisums. smaller, more delicate form
Garlic - from Marc's seeds very long ago (as "Garlic seed exchange" arranged by him), larger and more robust plant.
Janis
Janis, so nice to see these two forms of A. acutiflorum side by side for comparison. And what a "flash back" to earlier days back in the early 1990s when I put out a quarterly newsletter (G.A.R.L.I.C.) for a few years and ran a seed exchange for Alliums, long since a faded memory after nearly 20 years. How wonderful to see the efforts of seed cleaning paid off to get such a range of alliums into the hands of many growers. When my second daughter was borne, the daily demands of life and parenting were such that time-consuming botanical pursuits became a thing of the past.
My A. acutiflorum had come from Richard Dadd in England, but I had since lost my plants. Fortunately I received fresh seed this year from Weitse, and I hope for the best to once again grow this fine species. I like the Seisums form as well.
And your Turkish Allium amethystinum, it's a study in geometric precision, with such equally spaced points of light, a beautiful flower and beautiful photographs.
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Forgot to ask about this one in the summer, received as Allium rubens:
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Janis, so nice to see these two forms of A. acutiflorum side by side for comparison. And what a "flash back" to earlier days back in the early 1990s when I put out a quarterly newsletter (G.A.R.L.I.C.) for a few years and ran a seed exchange for Alliums, long since a faded memory after nearly 20 years. How wonderful to see the efforts of seed cleaning paid off to get such a range of alliums into the hands of many growers. When my second daughter was borne, the daily demands of life and parenting were such that time-consuming botanical pursuits became a thing of the past.
What did G.A.R.L.I.C. stand for? Do you still have the newsletter? Would be interesting to see one :)
Did you name your daughters after Alliums? Amethyst, perhaps (Amy for short?)
S.
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Forgot to ask about this one in the summer, received as Allium rubens:
Stephen, it might be right, foliage is certainly narrow enough. Some decriptions say "few flowered" although others say the density of the inflorescence is variable, The ones I grew had few-flowered one-sided umbels, but many photos show open hemispherical heads similar to what you show. Here are some photo links to compare:
Allium rubens in AsianFlora:
http://www.asianflora.com/Alliaceae/Allium-rubens.htm
Stephen, you're going to like the following link.
Scroll down past the stuffed onions (these look good!), Allium rubens and A. stellerianum are shown together, they both look right.
http://blogs.privet.ru/community/rastenia_riadom/tags/158671
Another couple of images, more globular heads:
http://www.biologie.uni-osnabrueck.de/bogos/Projekte/Pflanzenportraets/Site/Allium_rubens.html
http://www.agroatlas.ru/en/content/related/Allium_rubens/
A drawing I did from my plants of Allium rubens:
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/RhizomatousAlliums
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What did G.A.R.L.I.C. stand for? Do you still have the newsletter? Would be interesting to see one :)
Did you name your daughters after Alliums? Amethyst, perhaps (Amy for short?)
S.
Well, it was an acronymic stretch, but G.A.R.L.I.C. stood for "Growing Alliums & Related Liliaceae In Cultivation" (haha), remembering that Liliaceae was the family Allium was ascribed to at the time. The newsletter only lasted for ~3 years.
My two daughters were given normal non-alliaceous names :D
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A nice drawing, Mark.
I followed the link a found Allium tuvinicum. Are you sure the Tuva region is in Mongolia? I'm not a specialist in Mongolian geography but we have a region with the same name in Russia
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Oleg, you are correct about Tuva, for which Allium tuvinicum is named. The species, A. tuvinicum, occurs in Tuva, Russia, and in nearby Mongolia, where it is more widely distributed than in Russia. I think the confusion came in from the fact the species is named for Tuva area, yet the species is largely considered a Mongolian species from its wider distribution. I went into the Pacific Bulb Society wiki and clarified the language. Here are some links on this allium species.
The Virtual Guide to the Flora of Mongolia, a wonderful botanical resource:
http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/?flora_search=Record&record_id=11583
http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/?flora_search=Record&fam=&gen=Allium&spec=tuvinicum
distribution map:
http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/?flora_search=Taxon&taxon_id=2026
Checking wikipedia, parts of Tuva region were controlled by the Mongols from 1207 to 1757; so Tuva was practically Mongolian for 5-1/2 centuries. The area certainly has an interesting history.
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Stephen, you're going to like the following link.
Scroll down past the stuffed onions (these look good!), Allium rubens and A. stellerianum are shown together, they both look right.
http://blogs.privet.ru/community/rastenia_riadom/tags/158671
You must be referring to the unusually attractive onion fancier on that page :D
Anyway, thanks for the links - I had found your drawing; another talent!
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Well, it was an acronymic stretch, but G.A.R.L.I.C. stood for "Growing Alliums & Related Liliaceae In Cultivation" (haha), remembering that Liliaceae was the family Allium was ascribed to at the time. The newsletter only lasted for ~3 years.
Like it ;)
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The Virtual Guide to the Flora of Mongolia, a wonderful botanical resource:
http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/?flora_search=Record&record_id=11583
http://greif.uni-greifswald.de/floragreif/?flora_search=Record&fam=&gen=Allium&spec=tuvinicum
Truly an excellent resource - thanks, Mark - wish I'd had it when I was reading up about wild gathered edibles in Mongolia a few months back!!
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It has been a warm december here. We only had one frost-day in december (-0.1oC). How different it was one year ago when we had a lot of ice and almost al of december frost.
A lot of allium bulbs are getting green already, as you can see in the posted photo's, and also some seeds are comming out......
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My goodness Wietse, they are coming up like grass! It's hard to imagine all the work that goes into preparing such beds each year, on such a grand scale :o :o Do you sterilize the soil so that the beds are not infiltrated with the fallen seed of other species?
While we've had more than our fair share of mild weather, colder weather and deep frosts have arrived too, today was sunny but the high temperature was 25 F (-4 C) and night temperature 12 F (-11 C), and the ground feels solidly frozen.
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This year's Xmas tree in Malvik.....has an Alliaceous flavour with the Xmas fairy replaced by a Xmas onion. Which one? Season's greetings to all onion fans...
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This year's Xmas tree in Malvik.....has an Alliaceous flavour with the Xmas fairy replaced by a Xmas onion. Which one? Season's greetings to all onion fans...
One of the giant-headed alliums, probably A. schubertii. What are the small dark "ornaments" haging from the allium pedicels? :)
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Correct! A. schubertii!
The dark ornaments are dried plums. A play on words as light bulbs in Norwegian are lyspære (light-pears), so these are light-plums, but not very bright ;) Oh, well....
You can also see red chilis and the tree is a Brazilian Monkey Puzzle...
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Mark. Thanks for the very interesting link about Mongolian flora
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Mark. Thanks for the very interesting link about Mongolian flora
My pleasure Oleg, I wish all countries had such a well implemented on-line Flora. I like how you can find herbarium specimen views of many species, illustrative distribution maps, taxa descriptions, discussion about similar or related taxa, etc. I discovered the site when trying to key some Alliums and other plants that Panayotio Kelaidis photographed on his Mongolian botanic tour two years ago.
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My goodness Wietse, they are coming up like grass! It's hard to imagine all the work that goes into preparing such beds each year, on such a grand scale :o :o Do you sterilize the soil so that the beds are not infiltrated with the fallen seed of other species?
While we've had more than our fair share of mild weather, colder weather and deep frosts have arrived too, today was sunny but the high temperature was 25 F (-4 C) and night temperature 12 F (-11 C), and the ground feels solidly frozen.
It is a lot of work indeed, but that is ofcourse what we do for living (a part of). This year was a little different than before, because in the last years we had about 40-45m2 of allium seeds every year, but this year almost 300m2!.
We are never sowing seeds in soil where has been alliums the year before, and even if we did; the chance is very little that other species grow in between the one's we sow, because the soil is plought 30 cm every year and when we do not collect allium seeds we remove the flowers before they produce seeds. We do not use chemicals with growing allium, only some to reduce the weeds growing to fast. In the first and second year of the seeds we remove al weed by hand, and believe me... that is a lot of work!
The seeds are harvested the first time after 2 growing seasons, what we sow last november is going to be harvested in 2013 the first time. We post again some photo's when there is something more to see.
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You must be referring to the unusually attractive onion fancier on that page :D
But she wants to be aloooooone. :D
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We are never sowing seeds in soil where has been alliums the year before, and even if we did; the chance is very little that other species grow in between the one's we sow, because the soil is plought 30 cm every year and when we do not collect allium seeds we remove the flowers before they produce seeds. We do not use chemicals with growing allium, only some to reduce the weeds growing to fast. In the first and second year of the seeds we remove al weed by hand, and believe me... that is a lot of work!
The seeds are harvested the first time after 2 growing seasons, what we sow last november is going to be harvested in 2013 the first time. We post again some photo's when there is something more to see.
Even more impressive seeing much of this is done by hand!
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I would very much like to know what this vegetable Allium is - known as Gandana. See
http://www.sunset.com/garden/fruits-veggies/edible-garden-global-crops-00418000071219/page6.html (http://www.sunset.com/garden/fruits-veggies/edible-garden-global-crops-00418000071219/page6.html)
Any ideas=?
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I'm thinking Allium guttatum.
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I found this
Roland
Botanical name:Allium ascalonicum Linn.
Family:Liliaceae.
Indian names are as follows:
Hindi:Ek-kanda-lasun, Gandana
Bengali:Gundhun
Punjabi:Gandana, Gandhan
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Isn't A.ascalonicum the shallot we know and love? It seems on the foodie forums that the shallot is not considered as 'Gandana', but I agree Roland it most probably is these days! ;)
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Yes, I'd seen those comments of it not being shallot - probably the same name is used for different plants. I'd like to know what the other one is...
I thought Allium ascalonicum was nowadays considered a different species to standard shallots? The French Grey shallot (Griselle) is supposed to be ascalonicum. I grow Griselle here and it is much more hardy than shallot, overwintering well.
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There are a lot of different A. ascalonicum
it is probably one of the old ones
less giant as the modern ones
like the fantastic tasting A. cepa var. aggregatum
Roland
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Perfect example of the problem with 'common names'. The same name can be applied to different plants in different areas, and unfortunately also changes over time. :(
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It's like the term "scallion", which is generally attributed to A. fistulosum, although as the term "scallion" gets used, it really just means any number of Allium species and oniony vegetable cultivars that get picked in the green, e.g. green onions.
Here's a pair of unusual scallions:
http://www.thenibble.com/images/ScallionHaircut3.jpg
I wonder about the etymology of the term "rapscallion" ;)
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Finn Wischmann was one of Norway's most respected botanists. He died last year in his 90s. I was reading his entertaining obituary last night in the Norwegian Botany Journal Blyttia. The man had such an aversion to the onion family, both Allium in food and in the wild (e.g., a ramsons wood) that his colleagues and students coined the phrase alliophobic for him. This word isn't new for Google though, there's a few alliophobes scattered around the planet. Just don't let them into my garden let alone Mark's, they will have serious problems...
Eric Bloch in his comprehensive Garlic and Other Alliums: The Lore and the Science seems to have missed this condition...
Maybe I need to put a sign up "Alliums: Enter at your own risk"... ;)