Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: Gerry Webster on January 31, 2011, 10:42:48 AM
-
The UK government is proposing to sell off forests which are currently in public ownership. You can sign a petition against this proposal here:
http://saveourforests.co.uk/
or here:
http://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/en/campaigning/save-ancient-forests/Pages/fc-disposals-act-now.aspx?WT.mc_id=fc
-
It's a scandal. >:(
-
Thanks for that Gerry.
In a country ( England, not the UK ) where I think around only 5% of the land area is covered by forest / woodland any attempt to reduce that total or create a climate that further damages ancient woodlands is beyond despicable. England can ill afford to loose such habitats and such moves erode any 'moral' positon the UK as a whole might care to take when encouraging othr nations to protect for instance rainforests from deforestation.
There is land in England that could be 're-purposed' for forestry. ( Large chunks of the Lake District, which should be covered in forest! )
I am sure anyone who has an e-mail account will drop into those sites and register their protest, I did before writing this!
-
The UK government is proposing to sell off forests which are currently in public ownership. You can sign a petition against this proposal here:
http://saveourforests.co.uk/
or here:
http://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/en/campaigning/save-ancient-forests/Pages/fc-disposals-act-now.aspx?WT.mc_id=fc
Are these two different petitions, the comments on the top one seem to by saying do not sign, as this implies you agree with selling them off, rather write to your MP expressing your views and keep looking back at that site. I have to confess that I cannot think of anything worse than selling these sites to anyone, they are ours and not for sale.
( edit by maggi: I've righted your write, Brain! )
-
I wrote to my MP, here's his reply. Suffice it to say he's a Tory.
<SNIP>Dear Mr Nicholson,
Thank you very much for your email regarding our woodlands.
I am looking into this matter and agree that these are national treasures. I have never minded who owned any asset whether private, public or charitable sector; it is all about the terms and conditions on which assets are owned. In this case, I understand if any sale does happen that public access to these crown jewels will be guaranteed.
However, I am digging deeper to find out more details and am grateful to you for writing to me with your particular concerns.
Kind regards,
Gary Streeter
<SNIP>
-
Brian, Save Or Forests are saying don't respond to the Government's public consultation until the consultation has been thoroughly examined, because they feel it does not allow people to say they are against the sell-off, just how they would prefer the sell-off to be carried out. Anyone who objects to the sell-off of the publicly owned forests should sign the petition against it.
-
I wrote to my MP, here's his reply. Suffice it to say he's a Tory.
<SNIP>Dear Mr Nicholson,
Thank you very much for your email regarding our woodlands.
I am looking into this matter and agree that these are national treasures. I have never minded who owned any asset whether private, public or charitable sector; it is all about the terms and conditions on which assets are owned. In this case, I understand if any sale does happen that public access to these crown jewels will be guaranteed.
However, I am digging deeper to find out more details and am grateful to you for writing to me with your particular concerns.
Kind regards,
Gary Streeter
<SNIP>
That's pretty much how our local Conservative MP is responding. It sounds like they're faithfully spouting the party line (even if some of them have their doubts).
-
I understand if any sale does happen that public access to these crown jewels will be guaranteed.
I'm sure they said before the election they were not going to put university costs up same old bull sh** they will do it because they all have 1 acre woods on the back gardens so they don't need them.
Chris i absolutely agree with you 100% if this happens we then have no moral stance to tell somebody in brazil to stop cutting there forests down,what a disgrace. :'(
-
Email I received today, sorry that the hyperlinks don't come out as such. (later edit- but they do!!)
<SNIP>Dear David,
This Wednesday there is a crunch vote in Parliament. MPs will vote on a motion demanding a rethink of plans to sell our national forests.
If enough of us contact our MPs now, we've got a real chance of winning this vote! So let's make sure MPs are getting thousands of messages with one very clear request: vote to save our forests this Wednesday.
It's quick and easy to email your MP, click here to send them a message:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/tell-your-mp-to-save-our-forests
This vote was announced on Friday - it's only happening thanks to everything we have done together to stand up for our public forests. The motion itself says that, "over 225,000 people have signed a petition against such a sell-off"! [1] It's even more proof that our campaign is working and that if we keep going we can win.
On Wednesday morning, MPs will open up newspapers to find full-page Save our Forests adverts - paid for by thousands of us. Let's back this powerful message in the media with an avalanche of emails to MPs from local voters urging them to do the right thing.
We're close, and together, we can win this. Please take a moment to email your MP now:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/tell-your-mp-to-save-our-forests
Since 38 Degrees members voted to start campaigning to save our forests in November, we've had a huge impact. We've sounded the alarm and spread the word. We've made the headlines and we've made politicians nervous. We are proving that people power works!
Now let's work together again to make sure each and every MP hears from hundreds of us:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/tell-your-mp-to-save-our-forests
Thanks for getting involved,
David, Hannah, Johnny and the 38 Degrees team
PS. It's easy to contact your MP through the 38 Degrees website. Simply enter your postcode and your MP's details come up! We've even got text ready for you to send, or you can put your message in your own words:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/tell-your-mp-to-save-our-forests
----
Notes
[1] Over 330,000 of us have signed the petition so far.
__________________________________________________
The bigger we are the more we can do. Please forward this email to your friends and ask them to get involved.
38 Degrees brings you together with over 250,000 people to take action on the issues that matter to you and bring about real change. To find out more visit our website http://www.38degrees.org.uk Facebook http://www.facebook.com/peoplepowerchange or Twitter http://twitter.com/38_degrees
Donate: 38 Degrees doesn't accept money from government, big business, or political parties. We rely on donations from individuals to help pay for the technology, the research, the equipment and the small office we need to organise campaigns. Support our work by donating here: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/contribute
Unsubscribe: If you no longer wish to be part of our movement and receive our emails you can unsubscribe here: http://www.38degrees.org.uk/unsubscribe
38 DEGREES Registered Company No. 6642193
<SNIP>
-
Brian, Save Or Forests are saying don't respond to the Government's public consultation until the consultation has been thoroughly examined, because they feel it does not allow people to say they are against the sell-off, just how they would prefer the sell-off to be carried out. Anyone who objects to the sell-off of the publicly owned forests should sign the petition against it.
That is my understanding too.
-
Brian, Save Or Forests are saying don't respond to the Government's public consultation until the consultation has been thoroughly examined, because they feel it does not allow people to say they are against the sell-off, just how they would prefer the sell-off to be carried out. Anyone who objects to the sell-off of the publicly owned forests should sign the petition against it.
That is my understanding too.
In other words, if I read you correctly they are different petitions as I pointed out, and the lower one, The Woodland Trust petition is the one to sign as an objector to the sell off. Perhaps I did not make myself clear enough ???
-
What I was trying to say Brian was that there are two petitions, but both are objecting to the forestry sell-off and you can sign both. I thought what might be confusing was the comment on the Save Our Forests page (first link) which talks about the consultation the government is doing and advises people not to respond to that consultation until it has been studied, because responding to the consultation could be taken as agreeing with the sell-off. If you click on "sign petition" on the Save Our Forests page of the first link, that takes you to the wording of the petition , which is clearly opposing the sell off. So you can quite safely sign both the Save Our Forests petition and the Woodland Trust petition.
-
http://saveourwoods.co.uk/news/toby-buckland-responds-to-forest-sell-off-plans/
Toby Buckland, BBC Gardeners World presenter, has voiced his concerns to Save Our Woods over government proposals to sell publicly owned forests.
He makes an interesting point.
-
If you click on "sign petition" on the Save Our Forests page of the first link, that takes you to the wording of the petition , which is clearly opposing the sell off. So you can quite safely sign both the Save Our Forests petition and the Woodland Trust petition.
Thanks for that Martin - the cold must have addled what's left of the grey matter ::)
-
So your lot are just like our lot! I wish you all well with your opposition to the sell off. And guaranteed public access is rubbish. It may work out that way for a month or year or two then suddenly Donald Trump or his like will be building golf courses, housing estates and God knows what. Any sell off of publicly (Govt) owned assets is for very short term gain to the govt concerned and for long term profit - monetary profit - to those who buy it. Those who instigate such sales are despicable.
-
Despicable indeed Lesley. Our current lot are just like our last lot - they know the price of everything & the value of nothing.
-
Just a few observtions:
1. The UK Government is conducting a consultation in respect of state-owned forests in England. Forests in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not covered by the consultation.
2. The consultation can be viewed at:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/forests/20110127-forestry-consult-doc.pdf (http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/forests/20110127-forestry-consult-doc.pdf)
3. A petition to a consultation constitutes a single response.
-
Just a few observtions:
1. The UK Government is conducting a consultation in respect of state-owned forests in England. Forests in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not covered by the consultation.
2. The consultation can be viewed at:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/forests/20110127-forestry-consult-doc.pdf (http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/forests/20110127-forestry-consult-doc.pdf)
3. A petition to a consultation constitutes a single response.
The petitions against the sell-off are not responses to the consultations. They are petitions to the government demanding that the government calls off the whole idea and are independent of the consultation process. Indeed, the organisations against the sell-offs are very unhappy with the consultation process and are asking people to hold off responding to it until the consultation has been carefully scrutinised. They feel the consultation does not give people a chance to say they do not want a sell off, but simply asks them which aspects of a sell off they would prefer over others. The legislation allowing the sell off is already going through parliament, having been introduced before the consultation even got underway. It looks like it will be a fait accompli unless individual MPs can be persuaded to vote it down.
-
I emailed my MP regarding this proposal. Here is her reply:
From: "LUCAS, Caroline" <caroline.lucas.mp@parliament.uk>
Date: 1 February 2011 16:52:14 GMT
Subject: RE: Don't sell off our woodlands
Dear Gerry,
Many thanks for your email about the future of our national forests and woodlands. I absolutely agree that they shouldn’t be for sale and that’s why I have been taking every opportunity to oppose the coalition’s plans. This has included tabling a number of parliamentary questions, which you can read below, and I have spoken about this issue a number of times in the House of Commons too. I am also hoping to take part in tomorrow’s debate and will be voting against any legislation that would result in the privatisation of our much loved and valued natural heritage. The coalition has started to make concessions in the face of public pressure but none of their promises about safeguards for eg access or around the leasing of forests have yet to be included in the Public Bodies Bill. And I still want them to make a firm commitment to retain our woodlands and forests under public ownership. It is, therefore, vital to keep up the pressure on Ministers and send a clear message to the government about what we think of their proposals. I am working closely with 38 Degrees and the Save the Forests campaigns to this end.
Last week I issued this press statement in response to the government’s consultation plans:
There was a public consultation on the Public Forest Estate less than 18 months ago. We don’t need another one. The public have already made it clear that they want to maintain public forests – and many are now concerned that the Government’s misjudged and short-sighted plans pose a serious threat to whole swathes of our much loved woodlands. Despite Caroline Spelman’s belief that the Government should not involve itself in forest management, there are very good reasons for our woodlands and forests to remain under public ownership. The Forestry Commission has a proven record in environmental protection and managing sites of special scientific interest. It is highly unlikely that the same kind of long term care and protection would be afforded to the land once in private hands. Furthermore, access rights on Forestry Commission land go far beyond the basic rights of access that the law offers.
And if the Government’s claims about environmental protection are true, the sell-off makes no economic sense either. Who will want to buy this land unless they can develop it into a profit making enterprise? The fact is, the plans are unlikely to make any money and may even cost the taxpayer extra, as those who take our forests apply for Government grants that may match or even exceed the value of the sale. The Government is now on the back foot as a result of the public campaign against their ill judged plans. But we still have a fight on our hands to resist the legislative changes that would make the sell off a reality – which is why I will be seeking to amend the Public Bodies Bill in the Commons.
You can read more about my personal position in this piece for the Guardian's Comment is Free website - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2010/nov/16/fight-government-forest-sell-off
I appreciate your support on this issue and that you have taken the time to write to me about such an important matter. Do let me know if you need any further information and please be assured that protecting Britain’s forests and woodlands remains a top priority for me as Brighton Pavilion's MP.
Best wishes,
Caroline.
Caroline Lucas, MP for Brighton Pavilion
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA
-
Ah, Caroline, our first Green MP, very hard working and just all round brilliant.
-
Ah, Caroline, our first Green MP, very hard working and just all round brilliant.
I'm happy to say I voted for her.
-
Yes she seems to be a politician with integrity, and there aren't very many of those!
Best of luck with the campaign. In Ireland we may face something similar before long.
-
A few days ago I posted a reply I had received from my MP. He must have referred my original Email to Defra (Dept. for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) and here is the reply I received yesterday. Full of civil service speak!!
...
<SNIP>Dear Mr Nicholson,
Thank you for your email of 26 January to the Secretary of State about the Public Forest Estate in England. I have been asked to reply.
Defra and the Forestry Commission have recently launched a consultation (www.forestry.gov.uk/england-pfeconsultation) on proposals for new ownership and management options for the public forest estate in England, so no decisions have yet been taken on the future of individual sites. The consultation document sets out various methods we might use to secure important public benefits that forests provide, and the future direction that we expect the Forestry Commission to take.
We are pursuing a new approach to ownership and management of woodlands and forests, with a reducing role for the State and a growing role for civil society and the private sector. These aims are compatible with our commitment to the natural environment and we will ensure that the protection of our most valuable and biodiverse forests will not be compromised. We will ensure that robust measures will remain to preserve the public and environmental benefits of woods and forests under any new ownership arrangements.
Yours sincerely,
Veronica Jackson
Customer Contact Unit
Defra
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra)
<SNIP>
-
We all know what 'consultation' means. We've had a few in Brighton under various regimes - opinions collected with one hand & thrown into the bin with the other.
-
On Friday night on Radio 4's 'Any Questions' a panel member from the extreme right - James Deglinpole - referred to the enormous number of people who have signed the petitions against the sale as a "mob". An illuminating insight into the mindset of our rulers. Evidently the plebs are getting above themselves.
-
I received a letter from the house of commons from my Tory MP and i have to tell you i really don't think they have any intention of listening to the masses,from what i can tell in the letter they will do what they will do,it totally blew any wind i had in my sail away that day.I don't bother voting normally because i just couldn't imagine that any party in power would do anything different,but after that letter i will be voting next time.
-
Our Tory MP didn't even bother to respond.....
-
he didn't want to waste the paper because trees=money gail. ;D
-
You can see here how your MP voted in the 'woodland sale' debate on Wednesday:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/content/forest_vote_table/
-
Gerry apparently my MP was absent ,WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
-
I still can't quite get used to seeing Gerry Adams' name as that of a member of parliament.
-
Rather a lot of "absent" names there, don't you think?
Our MP voted "yes" :-X
-
Rather a lot of "absent" names there, don't you think?
MPs often buddy up with opposite Members, who are going to vote differently, so that they don't have attend the vote, ie each Members vote would cancel the other's out.
-
Rather a lot of "absent" names there, don't you think?
MPs often buddy up with opposite Members, who are going to vote differently, so that they don't have attend the vote, ie each Members vote would cancel the other's out.
I believe that in the UK that is what is known as democracy.
-
Rather a lot of "absent" names there, don't you think?
Our MP voted "yes" :-X
Maggi, you do realise the vote was on whether to have a rethink on the sell-off. Your MP voted to have a rethink. It wasn't a vote on whether to have the sell off. So your MP voted the 'right' way. The big vote on going ahead with the sell off will come after the government's so-called consultation.
-
Martin is correct. A 'Yes' vote was the right vote.
-
Rather a lot of "absent" names there, don't you think?
Our MP voted "yes" :-X
Maggi, you do realise the vote was on whether to have a rethink on the sell-off. Your MP voted to have a rethink. It wasn't a vote on whether to have the sell off. So your MP voted the 'right' way. The big vote on going ahead with the sell off will come after the government's so-called consultation.
Aha, Yes, okay, I got wrong end of the stick, or woodland, as the case might be.... I was puzzled.......so she voted in favour of a re-think and/or protection of the status quo? Excellent!
-
Gerry apparently my MP was absent ,WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
Probably far to busy preparing his expenses claim to bother attending ;D
I went through the full voting list and of the Conservative members attending only two voted Yes-Julian Lewis the member for New Forest East, and Zac Goldsmith the member for Richmond Park. Don't suppose either would have dared to go back to their constituencies if they had voted No.
-
Gerry apparently my MP was absent ,WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
Davey - my apologies, I've only just seen this post. I think David has provided the most likely answer
Probably far to busy preparing his expenses claim to bother attending ;D
-
So far 490,000 people have signed the petition against the sell-off. The organisers are hoping to make this half a million.
The scale of public opposition to the proposals seems to have caught the coalition unawares and publicly they appear to have been making concessions It looks like they hope that these recent (& minor) concessions will cause the fuss to die down so they can press on with their plans for a sell off. The requisite change in the law will be included in the Public Bodies Bill when it comes before MPs in the next few weeks. It is this legislation that will give the government the powers it needs to go ahead with the removal of woodlands from public ownership.
If you object to these proposals, it is not too late to sign the petition & make your views known to your MP.
-
Below is copy of an Email from my MP in response to my Email telling him he was gutless at the last House vote. By the way he always signs himself as "Gary", he's not a personal friend or anything :P
<SNIP>Dear Mr Nicholson,
Thank you for your further email on this matter.
I think it important to stress that this is a genuine consultation exercise. The reaction from the public has been dramatic and overwhelming. I have made my own representations based on many of the concerns that my constituents have raised with me and I will be very surprised indeed if after the consultation period ends in April this policy is not significantly reconfigured.
Very best wishes,
Gary
<SNIP>
-
As many people will have heard, the proposal to sell off English woodlands has apparently been abandoned & the so-called consultations will be scrapped. While this is cause for celebration I think we should remain vigilant; I cannot believe that this government would be content for public interest to take precedence over private profit.
-
There can still sell off 15% every 4 years http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12488847 down the bottom
-
There can still sell off 15% every 4 years http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12488847 down the bottom
As I understand it, 15% of the forest estate is the maximum the Government can sell under current legislation. It is reported (by Reuters) that this sale has been put on hold while ministers "review the criteria for the sale" (whatever this means). The proposed 15% sale is quite distinct from, (& I believe predates), the proposal for the massive sell-off which would have required new legislation.
-
There can still sell off 15% every 4 years http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12488847 down the bottom
As I understand it, 15% of the forest estate is the maximum the Government can sell under current legislation. It is reported (by Reuters) that this sale has been put on hold while ministers "review the criteria for the sale" (whatever this means). The proposed 15% sale is quite distinct from, (& I believe predates), the proposal for the massive sell-off which would have required new legislation.
As I understand it the previous government exercised this option several times without consultation or a national outcry. The problem here was they were going to sell the pretty ones and quite rightly people were outraged.
-
You can read the announcement by the Secretary of State (Caroline Spelman) here:
http://ww2.defra.gov.uk/news/2011/02/17/futureforestry/
Old cynics like me will take it with a pinch of salt.
-
You can read the announcement by the Secretary of State (Caroline Spelman) here:
http://ww2.defra.gov.uk/news/2011/02/17/futureforestry/
Old cynics like me will take it with a pinch of salt.
me too but with two pinches of salt!
-
David, do you not trust your MPs ? ? ? ;D ;D ;D
-
David, do you not trust your MPs ? ? ? ;D ;D ;D
Not as far as I could throw 'em ::)
-
David,
Is that by hand, or with a catapult? ;)
-
Congratulations to all for seeing off the attempt to privatise British forests 8)
Now please spare a thought for Irish woodlands which are similarly threatened.
Apart from Iceland, Ireland is the least forested country in Europe.
Our old forest remnants are particularly precious because they are few, tiny and highly vulnerable.
Background and further information is available here (http://www.woodlandleague.org/).
You can sign a petition here (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-save-irelands-forests/).
I hope we in Ireland, with international support, can match the recent great success of our neighbours in the UK.
-
Good luck Ashley!
-
I've signed it. These petitions can and do make a difference, as happened in the uk.
-
Me too.... I hope this is successful in keeping the Irish Forests for the Irish.
-
Thank you all. Our local TDs (= MPs), so newly elected, will be hearing from me too >:(