Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: daveyp1970 on January 29, 2011, 02:52:17 PM

Title: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on January 29, 2011, 02:52:17 PM
Here is my first muscari about to flower this year Muscari coeleste KPPZ.90-318

Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on February 06, 2011, 07:40:27 PM
Muscari inconstrictum,i really like this one.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: David Nicholson on February 06, 2011, 07:43:25 PM
Both very nice little things Dave.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Arda Takan on February 06, 2011, 10:41:28 PM
I agree with David. They are really nice.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on February 08, 2011, 09:45:37 PM
Thanks chaps there will be a few more in the next couple of days.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on February 09, 2011, 11:39:23 AM
Hello, a seedling of Muscari from 'Rosy Sunrise' has started to bloom here :) This plant is especially early among its sister seedlings in a pot. The seeds were from JJA Seeds and described on seedlist as below.

"From a new selection made by Augis Dambrauskas and considered to be the deepest pink muscari yet. Soft-pink buds open to deeper pink flowers. This selection has been derived from an undescribed species, allied to Muscari armeniacum, which occurs around Nalchik in the Russian republic of Kabardino-Balkaria (next to North Ossetia in the North Caucasus)."
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Paul T on February 09, 2011, 11:57:21 AM
Wow, Tatsuo.  Great colour.  Better pink than I think I've seen in a Muscari before?  Not that I've ever seen a decent pink in real life. ::)

Thanks for the pics, and congratulations on flowering the seedling.  Hopefully the first of many to come, and in a good range of pinks.  ;D
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on February 09, 2011, 12:59:19 PM
Hello, a seedling of Muscari from 'Rosy Sunrise' has started to bloom here :) This plant is especially early among its sister seedlings in a pot. The seeds were from JJA Seeds and described on seedlist as below.

"From a new selection made by Augis Dambrauskas and considered to be the deepest pink muscari yet. Soft-pink buds open to deeper pink flowers. This selection has been derived from an undescribed species, allied to Muscari armeniacum, which occurs around Nalchik in the Russian republic of Kabardino-Balkaria (next to North Ossetia in the North Caucasus)."

Excellent seedling and most important - looks virus free - greatest problem of those stocks allied with this species nova, but it isn't ally of armeniacum. M. armeniacum allways forms leaves in autumn (here, but I think in Holland and in other places, too), this one generally only in spring, so are not damaged by winter frosts and looks far better. All shape of plant and flower spike looks far different from M. armeniacum. There are 3 original clones, collected in wild. Rosy Sunrise is selection from seedlings of White-rose Beauty with more prominent pink shade, selected by Dambrauskas from thousands of seedlings (another one is Pink Sunset - later, but a little paler - intensity of color depends from temperature, in cool weather it is brighter, and soil must be slightly on acid side - then again color is brighter). Those clones produce seedlings of quite constant color and I started their sowing, too - just to make those color types free from viruses.

Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Lesley Cox on February 09, 2011, 08:45:59 PM
A very pretty muscari Tatsuo. If it matures as a deeper pink, will you show another picture please?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on February 10, 2011, 04:39:47 PM
Paul, I will do hand pollinate it and donate to next seed-ex if they'll put seeds.

Janis, thank you very much for your further information of this muscari. I've already copied your description to my PC ;D

Lesley, thank you :) I will ;)
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: art600 on February 10, 2011, 05:45:42 PM
First muscari in the bulb house - could be anatolicum?

Not a muscari, but think I could post here - a pot of Bellevalia rixii.  This pot has had buds for the last four years, but they have always aborted.  I think this year I am going to be lucky
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: David Nicholson on February 12, 2011, 04:57:15 PM
Is this right here?

Hyacinthella glabrescens. Perhaps a little tatty around the edges-much like me really ;D

Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on February 12, 2011, 05:48:35 PM
She is a little stunner David.
Heres "Muscari Adilii" from PC - querying the name - now thought to be Muscari leucostomum
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: LucS on February 12, 2011, 07:19:10 PM
A close relative of muscari is Bellevalia eigii from Jordan. The picture shows a close-up of the inflorescense.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: art600 on February 13, 2011, 03:46:06 PM
A close relative of muscari is Bellevalia eigii from Jordan. The picture shows a close-up of the inflorescense.

Very nice - how tall?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on February 13, 2011, 03:59:41 PM
She is a little stunner David.
Heres Muscari Adilii from PC
Sorry, but it is not adilii!
Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on February 13, 2011, 04:09:32 PM
She is a little stunner David.
Heres Muscari Adilii from PC
Sorry, but it is not adilii!
Janis
Here picture of true M. adilii
Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on February 13, 2011, 04:42:55 PM
Janis that is the reason why i put the photo up,could you have a guess at the species for me,i was waiting for your comment thank you.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: ashley on February 13, 2011, 08:02:37 PM
I like that Bellevalia eigii Luc; is it easy?

Here mild weather x low light levels = etiolation :(

Hyacinthella heldreichii (x2)
Muscari anatolicum seedlings about to flower for the first time
M. leucostomum
M. sivrihisardaglarensis
(?)   
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Arda Takan on February 13, 2011, 08:40:03 PM
Great Muscaris and Hyacinthella Asley,
And I am glad M. sivrihisardaghlariensis has blue flower buds this time :)
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: ashley on February 13, 2011, 08:54:17 PM
Thanks Arda. 
In fact this is the one I showed before, on the left ;)   
However, because it began flowering in December during extremely cold weather I suspect that its development was abnormal.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on February 14, 2011, 07:59:56 AM
Janis that is the reason why i put the photo up,could you have a guess at the species for me,i was waiting for your comment thank you.
Sorry, not easy to identify. Several could match, much more must be known than seen on picture. And... I'm not so keen in Muscari. Sorry.
Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on February 15, 2011, 08:48:23 AM
A very pretty muscari Tatsuo. If it matures as a deeper pink, will you show another picture please?

The earliest flowering seedling from 'Rosy Sunrise' posted on 9th Feb. is fading its colour :( but the second flowering plant looks better than the first one, more flowers on a spike and slightly deeper pink :)
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Arda Takan on February 15, 2011, 10:34:53 AM
Very pretty Muscari Tatsuo
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on February 15, 2011, 10:50:37 AM
A very pretty muscari Tatsuo. If it matures as a deeper pink, will you show another picture please?

The earliest flowering seedling from 'Rosy Sunrise' posted on 9th Feb. is fading its colour :( but the second flowering plant looks better than the first one, more flowers on a spike and slightly deeper pink :)

Very good. The fading of pink is usual for this strain. As I wrote before - color is brighter in cooler weather and in more acid soils.
Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on February 15, 2011, 12:04:10 PM
Arda, Thanks :) I love these pink grapes.

Janis, thank you for your advices. The soil in this muscari pot is acidic ;) but temperatures rise warmer than usual here...
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: LucS on February 15, 2011, 01:30:43 PM
I like that Bellevalia eigii Luc; is it easy?

Ashley, it is one of the plants of Jim A. I bought last year, and I'm not certain how it will behave in a cold spell. It is in the protection of a greenhouse at the moment.

@ Arthur.
The overall height is about 20cm. I'll see if I can make a picture of the plant.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: ashley on February 15, 2011, 02:22:48 PM
Thanks Luc.  Unfortunately in trying to exercise some self-control when ordering from Jenny Archibald's latest seed list this is one I left out :'(
May I join the queue in case you have a few seeds to spare in due course?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Paul T on February 17, 2011, 08:16:47 AM
Luc,

That Bellevalia eigii is a cracker.  I love the shape of the buds, just about bursting to open.  So distinctive (or to my eye at least).  Very, very nice.

Thanks for the great photos everyone.  I noticed today here the first shoots of Muscari just starting to push through.  Probably a few others that I haven't noticed in the garden itself, but these were in pots.  8)
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on February 22, 2011, 11:54:46 AM
Muscari leucostomum from JJA Seeds (#689.851 ex Tadjikistan). I got this #689.851 seeds instead of "#689.850 ex Turkmenistan" on September 2008 list. It would be great if someone who knows further information tells me about it.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on February 23, 2011, 05:04:33 PM
An another pink muscari selection; Muscari species nova 'Early Rose' from Janis.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on February 23, 2011, 05:13:41 PM
 Tatsuo that is lovely,one i will be ordering off janis.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: LucS on February 23, 2011, 06:01:21 PM
An another pink muscari selection; Muscari species nova 'Early Rose' from Janis.
Extremely beautiful  :o :o
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on February 26, 2011, 09:15:33 AM
Hyacinthella dalmatica 'Grandiflora'
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Onion on February 26, 2011, 08:02:10 PM
Tatsuo,

what a fantastic little plant. And a very good picture you made.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Onion on February 26, 2011, 08:02:49 PM
Do you cultivated it under glass? Because it is very early or is this normal for you Tatsuo?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on February 27, 2011, 12:55:24 PM
Thanks Onion :) I'm growing small bulbs outside, on the bench by south-facing wall just under the eaves. I checked last season's record and blooming time of this plant was same as this seasn ;)
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 01, 2011, 07:05:19 PM
A couple from me today and an unnamed could somebody please id it for me.
1 Muscari Discolor
2 Muscari Azureum
3 Muscari ?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: ashley on March 01, 2011, 07:51:15 PM
Beautiful plants 8)

I really admire how 'tight' your muscari are grown Tatsuo.  Here the combination of lower light intensity and mild temperatures makes that very difficult to achieve.

Davey, your last one looks like M. muscarimi (see e.g. here (http://home.tiscali.nl/~hennessy/muscarimi.htm)), but maybe post again when the flowers are more mature.  Does it have a scent?  
Great crop of seedlings around your azureum.  Do you sow back into the same pot?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 01, 2011, 10:08:00 PM
Cheers for that Ashley,it was given to me as  M. muscarimi but i don't detect any scent,i will wait for it to mature.Yes i did it for the first time last year(sowed the seed in the same pot as the motherplant) and seems to have worked nicely.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: johnw on March 01, 2011, 11:47:23 PM
Davey - I agree with Ashley on that one, Muscari muscarimi.  Here it is in flower 20 Jan 2011, from Archibald seed.  The wild blue colour on the tip of the spike reminds me of Lachenalia viridiflora.  The scent was not as strong as I recall, M. macrocarpon may be better but I'm not the nose to ask.

johnw
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on March 02, 2011, 03:10:57 AM
I really admire how 'tight' your muscari are grown Tatsuo.  Here the combination of lower light intensity and mild temperatures makes that very difficult to achieve.

Thank you Ashley, my place is in one of the sunniest winter area in Japan and probably fits for growing some spring flowering small bulbs such as Muscari and its relatives ;D But the temperature rises much quicker than your country in spring and jumps up to deadly high in following summer. So I have to give up growing many high altitude and latitude alpines here :(
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on March 02, 2011, 07:17:45 PM
Muscari leucostomum from JJA Seeds (#689.851 ex Tadjikistan). I got this #689.851 seeds instead of "#689.850 ex Turkmenistan" on September 2008 list. It would be great if someone who knows further information tells me about it.

Afraid that it is not leucostomum, flowers far too light blue.
Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on March 03, 2011, 04:10:48 PM
Muscari leucostomum from JJA Seeds (#689.851 ex Tadjikistan). I got this #689.851 seeds instead of "#689.850 ex Turkmenistan" on September 2008 list. It would be great if someone who knows further information tells me about it.
Afraid that it is not leucostomum, flowers far too light blue.
Janis

Janis, thank you for mentioning. I'll change the label.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Paul T on March 04, 2011, 12:19:15 AM
So cool to see these flowering.  Lots of leaves up here, but won't be any flowers for yonks yet!!  ::)
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: ArnoldT on March 06, 2011, 07:24:22 PM
Not sure of ID.

 
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Oron Peri on March 12, 2011, 04:01:33 PM
Luc S.
Going back through the thread i have seen your post on the first page.

Your Bellevalia is B. mosheovii and not eigii,
B. mosheovii young flowers are Celeste white with very short pedicals, quite different to those of eigii.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 12, 2011, 06:01:52 PM
a couple of my muscari in flower today

Muscari aucheri from Lake Abant in Turkey

Muscari macrocarpum from Marmaris Turkey
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: LucS on March 12, 2011, 06:58:49 PM
Luc S.
Going back through the thread i have seen your post on the first page.

Your Bellevalia is B. mosheovii and not eigii,
B. mosheovii young flowers are Celeste white with very short pedicals, quite different to those of eigii.

Never heard of that one Oron. It was ID't by Jim Archibald
Have you a picture of B. eigii ?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Oron Peri on March 12, 2011, 08:04:49 PM
Luc,
Here is B. eigii.
Photo taken last January.

Bellevalia genus is extremely difficult to ID in this area,
 still these two are relatively easy to tell apart.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 12, 2011, 10:02:27 PM
a couple of my muscari in flower today

Muscari aucheri from Lake Abant in Turkey

Muscari macrocarpum from Marmaris Turkey
Lovely Tony the aucheri is really nice.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 13, 2011, 01:33:06 PM
Muscari macrocarpum Golden Fragrance and Muscari muscarimi(i take back what i said about this plant the perfume is lovely and quite strong)and Muscari chalusicum
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 13, 2011, 05:07:34 PM
I think this is a selection of Muscari aucheri but not as nice as Tony's but still a lovely thing.Muscari mount hood
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: ashley on March 13, 2011, 05:21:28 PM
... Muscari aucheri but not as nice as Tony's ...

Both very beautiful.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Michael J Campbell on March 15, 2011, 10:26:48 PM
Muscari  Gaul armeniacum
Belavllia ? from star seed.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: fermi de Sousa on March 15, 2011, 10:33:30 PM
Michael,
That Bellevalia is stunning! What STAR number did it have?

Is the Muscari ex "Gul (Delight)" ?
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Michael J Campbell on March 15, 2011, 10:37:30 PM
Thanks Fermi,will have a look tomorrow.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Michael J Campbell on March 16, 2011, 10:34:38 AM
Quote
That Bellevalia is stunning! What STAR number did it have?

 Fermi,  from what I can read on the faded label it is 507b

cheers.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on March 19, 2011, 12:12:56 PM
Thank you for showing lovely muscaris and its relatives :)

Here is Muscari armeniacum from pink form, JJA list code: 688.012. The seeds were sown Oct. 2004 and its first flower opend in spring 2007.
The descriptions on the seed list were 'A selection made in the wild in Turkey by Bob and Rannveig Wallis over a decade ago and now named 'Gul'. Pinkish white flowers blush to deeper sugar-pink as they mature. Original collection: Turkey, Konya, S of Beysehir Golu. 1100m. Roadside verge. Ex R.& R. Wallis 90-50.'
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 19, 2011, 12:52:23 PM
They are fantastic Tatsuo,i love the white with green and a pink finish,if they produce seed can you think of me please.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on March 19, 2011, 06:35:49 PM
They are fantastic Tatsuo,i love the white with green and a pink finish,if they produce seed can you think of me please.

They well set seeds, seedlings split, but quite great proportion is pink.
Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 19, 2011, 07:53:27 PM
They are fantastic Tatsuo,i love the white with green and a pink finish,if they produce seed can you think of me please.

They well set seeds, seedlings split, but quite great proportion is pink.
Janis
Thank you Janis for the information i have just bought seed off Richard Hobbs and Sally Ward from there pink plants.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on March 20, 2011, 01:52:32 PM
daveyp, thanks :) I'll tell you if I get seeds this year ;)

Janis, my seedlings from JJA were 100% true!
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: YT on March 23, 2011, 12:14:32 PM
Here is Muscari polyanthum 'Snow Queen' from Janis :)
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: hadacekf on March 23, 2011, 06:06:36 PM
Here is my Hyacinthella-dalmatica, I hope it is! It is only 5 cm high.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 23, 2011, 11:29:52 PM
various muscari

Muscari latifolium
Muscari azureum
Muscari macrocarpum

Mscari sp.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: David Nicholson on March 24, 2011, 08:23:43 PM
Two of mine:-


Muscari latifolium

M. macrocarpum
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 24, 2011, 08:53:39 PM
Tony lovely stuff,the last two are pretty special.David that is one hell of a spike on your macrocarpum.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: David Nicholson on March 24, 2011, 08:58:11 PM
..................David that is one hell of a spike on your macrocarpum.

It is isn't it! It's been stuck out of the way at the back of the lower shelf of staging in the greenhouse totally ignored for weeks. Pehaps it thought it would get me to notice it! ;D
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on March 25, 2011, 03:22:12 PM
This is a Muscari latifolium I collected in 1996 and it is still one bulb. Lovely lime green colour goes well with the white top. Would look better as a pot full.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 25, 2011, 05:21:54 PM
This is a Muscari latifolium I collected in 1996 and it is still one bulb. Lovely lime green colour goes well with the white top. Would look better as a pot full.
WOW Tony that is incredible,100% my favourite Muscari so far,i didn't know there was an alba form.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: WimB on March 27, 2011, 01:11:38 PM
Hyacinthella dalmatica flowering here too.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 27, 2011, 01:32:51 PM
Here is my Hyacinthella-dalmatica, I hope it is! It is only 5 cm high.
Franz i might be wrong but i can't help think your Hyacinthella-dalmatica is a muscari.The alba form is lovely.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 27, 2011, 01:33:50 PM
Hyacinthella dalmatica flowering here too.
Thats lovely Wim not one i have are you growing it outside.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: WimB on March 27, 2011, 01:38:05 PM
Hyacinthella dalmatica flowering here too.
Thats lovely Wim not one i have are you growing it outside.

Thanks Davey.

I grow it outside in a trough since three years.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: ashley on March 27, 2011, 10:31:53 PM
Various ones flowering here now:

Bellevalia forniculata
Muscari anatolicum
(x2) Archibald population number 0687950 ex Turkey, Konya, Sultan Dag, 1760m, limestone ridge; sown 10/08
M. grandifolium Archibald pop. no. 0689450 ex Morocco, Middle Atlas, above Ifrane, 1700m
Muscari hybrid? distinctly purple rather than blue (came as M. leucostomum)
M. 'Jenny Robinson'
M. latifolium
M. leucostomum ex Turkmenistan, Kopet Dag; from Janis
Muscari sp. ex Turkey, Burdur (thanks Tony) tiny (7-8 cm) and a beautiful deep wine colour.  Can anyone suggest an ID?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on March 27, 2011, 10:53:27 PM
Wow soooo many nice ones there Ashley can i be greedy and say i like them all lovely stuff,if you don't get an id for the last one send a pic attached to an email to Richard Hobb and Sally Ward they might be able to id it for you.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: ashley on March 28, 2011, 01:28:44 PM
Good idea Davey.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: David Nicholson on March 28, 2011, 05:08:05 PM
Lovely collection Ashley.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 01, 2011, 10:10:12 AM
This is a Muscari latifolium I collected in 1996 and it is still one bulb. Lovely lime green colour goes well with the white top. Would look better as a pot full.
My latifolium album didn't increase, too and seedlings were usual blue colored. Original plant got virus and I destroyed it before started increasing with bulb cutting. I reccomend you to make cross-cut with sterilized knife the bottom plate after harvesting up to 1/3 of bulb height - allow to dry and then plant. It works!
Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 01, 2011, 10:13:45 AM
I posted this one on Scilla page, but as this concern Muscari, too, I repeat it here:

Usually we are reporting about nice flowers and success, but sometimes I think it would be good to share information about possible problems in garden. Last spring, when Henrik Zetterlund visited my nursery, he spotted out one pot with beautiful and well looking Muscari, with only some black dust (soot) on leaves. He touched the spike and I saw how very fine powder falls out of flowers. So I for the first time saw the fungal disease which Henrik named as Bellevalia & Muscari "flower-soot" which he first  saw  on B. pycnantha about 25 years ago. It doesn't destroy the plant, but makes it sterile as instead of pollens the anthers produce this soot. The black powder on leaves is the single symptom on Muscari. I immediately destroyed this pot and carefully checked all other Muscari - fortunately no one more showed symptoms.

This spring I was surprised seeing one pot of Scilla bithynica with smaller flowers and black anthers. When I touched this - fell off known before from muscari black powder and then I note deformation of petals, too. So carefull checking of all Scillas followed and I found one pot with S. sibirica caucasica with similar symptoms. They all immediately were mowed to fireplace. Unfortunately I maid picture only from bithynica, was so shocked, that didn't pictured caucasica flowers, but symptoms were similar - deformed petals (although of normal size), fat black anthers issuing very fine black powder.

I immediately sprayed all my plantings with combination of Tilt + Carbendazim - so future pictures can be with some whitish spots on leaves. Tilt is against rust. Henrik suppose that it is some phase of rust (rust fungus has 4 different stages and different spores), but I more think that it could be some of little known fungus from Fumago/Capnodium complex, but my knowledge about those pathogens are 40 years old (when I was student). May be someone of you know something about this disease?

Picture of infected Scilla bithynica you can see on Scilla pages; may be it came with infection from wild as I saw in wild large populations of Fritillaria, Erythronium, juno Iris with heavy infection of rust.

Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 01, 2011, 11:41:56 AM
Janis i will check all my plants but can't say i've seen it before.Can i ask about your previous reply to Tony about his alba flower,if i was to collect seed from a virused plant is there any hope the seedlings will be clean of the virus.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 01, 2011, 12:41:54 PM
Janis i will check all my plants but can't say i've seen it before.Can i ask about your previous reply to Tony about his alba flower,if i was to collect seed from a virused plant is there any hope the seedlings will be clean of the virus.
Usually they are free from virus, but checking is necessary. Some stocks I cleaned only in second generation.
Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 01, 2011, 06:51:38 PM
Another entry for both Scilla and Muscari pages:

With great help from Suzan, I found (really Suzan found) article about this fungal disease. From that article I made small extract about the subject. As it is just article relating of systematic topic, I added my opinion how to work with it. Fortunately now we have new systemic fungicides used by farmers on grain crops, which may be will work on bulbs, too.
This patogen belongs to the genus Vankya quite recently seperated from Uromyces, which is quite common disease on various grain crops. I suppose that now Uromyces are regarded as patogen of Dycotylodens and fungus infecting monocots (most of bulbs etc.) now is renamed as Vankya. So I think that systemic fungicides used against Uromyces (by old system) can be useable for bulbs, too. Follows extract from original article (VANKYA VAILLANTII (USTILAGINOMYCETES) ON SCILLA IN CENTRAL EUROPE.) Once more - many thanks to Suzan!

Vankya vaillantii
(Tul. & C. Tul.) Ershad (Urocystales,
Ustilaginomycetes
) is a parasitic fungus
affecting members of the genera Albuca, Bellevalia,
Chionodoxa, Eucomis, Hyacinthus, Muscari,
Puschkinia, Scilla, Urginea
and Ornithogalum
pyrenaicum
L. worldwide (Vanky 1994). The
fungus systemically infects anthers of host plants.
The anthers are enlarged, olivaceous-brown, with
sori producing a dark olive brown powdery mass
of spores. Distributed in areas with generally
warm climate in the floodplain woods.

Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on April 01, 2011, 07:20:03 PM
See here http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7016.msg194984#msg194984 for more on the article cited (above)  by Janis.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Arda Takan on April 02, 2011, 03:46:30 PM
I saw hundreds of muscaris in flower today. But photo quality is too bad so I will take better photos tomorrow and show you guys.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 02, 2011, 04:50:52 PM
I saw hundreds of muscaris in flower today. But photo quality is too bad so I will take better photos tomorrow and show you guys.
Yes please Arda.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Arda Takan on April 03, 2011, 09:44:32 AM
I will add more pictures but unfortunately they won't have a higher quality since I have to take them with my cell. Here are two muscaris. I have no idea about their species.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 03, 2011, 10:04:13 AM
Nice Muscari neglectum form from Crimea know as M. dolioliforme, too but generally the last name is regarded as synonim
Laigh blue is most likely new species from very high altitudes in NE Turkey
About last I even don't know from where it comes and don't know its name - I gave it nickname "sausage" muscari. May be someone can help me to identify?
Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 03, 2011, 12:47:14 PM
Nice Muscari neglectum form from Crimea know as M. dolioliforme, too but generally the last name is regarded as synonim
Laigh blue is most likely new species from very high altitudes in NE Turkey
About last I even don't know from where it comes and don't know its name - I gave it nickname "sausage" muscari. May be someone can help me to identify?
Janis
Janis i think i have cracked your mystery muscari sausage http://217.70.34.228/artiklar/images/bilder/Muscari_discolor-t.jpg
is there a prize.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Arda Takan on April 03, 2011, 03:07:10 PM
Hello everyone,

I'm back with new photos, as promised.

Sorry again for quality my cell has 2 megapixel camera.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 03, 2011, 03:38:27 PM
Hello everyone,

I'm back with new photos, as promised.

Sorry again for quality my cell has 2 megapixel camera.

On first three pictures are Hyacinthella, but quality too poor for some ideas.
Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 03, 2011, 03:40:02 PM
Nice Muscari neglectum form from Crimea know as M. dolioliforme, too but generally the last name is regarded as synonim
Laigh blue is most likely new species from very high altitudes in NE Turkey
About last I even don't know from where it comes and don't know its name - I gave it nickname "sausage" muscari. May be someone can help me to identify?
Janis
Janis i think i have cracked your mystery muscari sausage http://217.70.34.228/artiklar/images/bilder/Muscari_discolor-t.jpg
is there a prize.

Many thanks Dave!
Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 03, 2011, 06:34:41 PM
Two from me.the first Bellevalia pycnantha and the second is a pot of Muscari botryoides 'Superstar' that i rescued from the bin at a garden center in the bargain area.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Arda Takan on April 03, 2011, 10:01:42 PM
Among all the muscari and muscari like plants I have seen today this one was the most unique in color
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 04, 2011, 07:44:33 PM
The first three - are Hyacinthellas
Hyacinthella acutiloba
Hyacinthella heldreichii
and Hyacinthella sirtensis

Then 2 Muscari
Two different stocks of anatolicum from Turkey
and Muscari pseudomuscari from Iran collected during Swedish-Latvian-Iranian Zagros expedition (SLIZE)

Janis
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 04, 2011, 08:04:28 PM
Janis your Hyacinthella are really nice,H.heldreichii is my favourite,but i think the Muscari anatolicum SASA-328 is fantastic.


Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Paul T on April 05, 2011, 02:26:16 AM
Fantastic photos everyone!!

Of particular note.... Tatsuo's glorious pink and white one, Ashley's wonderful purple, and Janis' blacks.  So many I've never seen or heard of before.

Thanks everyone. 8)
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Tiggrx on April 07, 2011, 09:18:43 PM
I have been trying to reclaim my very neglected garden into some sort of order and am finding quite a few treasures hiding among the weeds. I would appreciate anybody's opinion on these three Muscari

1. The flower shape puts me in mind of M. botryoides but seems very pale and the leaves don't seem right
2. Muscari commutatum?
3. Think this one originally came as M. neglectum white form but don't think it is. Maybe M. auchadra (= M. commutatum white form)?

Thanks for any help

Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Oron Peri on April 08, 2011, 08:41:06 AM
Muscari spreizenhoferi  from Crete in flower today.

Should be renamed as Leopoldia spreitzenhoferi.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: WimB on April 08, 2011, 12:47:47 PM
Here in flower now:

Bellevalia pycnantha and
Hyacinthoides italica
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 08, 2011, 03:06:33 PM
I have been trying to reclaim my very neglected garden into some sort of order and am finding quite a few treasures hiding among the weeds. I would appreciate anybody's opinion on these three Muscari

1. The flower shape puts me in mind of M. botryoides but seems very pale and the leaves don't seem right
2. Muscari commutatum?
3. Think this one originally came as M. neglectum white form but don't think it is. Maybe M. auchadra (= M. commutatum white form)?

Thanks for any help


I think your right with the second,i think its Muscari commutatum and the third is i think Muscari commutatum alba and please if this form produces any seed could i please get a couple of you.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on April 08, 2011, 03:07:42 PM
Muscari spreizenhoferi  from Crete in flower today.

Should be renamed as Leopoldia spreitzenhoferi.
Wow Oron its a beauty,not one i have seen before.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Tiggrx on April 08, 2011, 05:46:56 PM
I think your right with the second,i think its Muscari commutatum and the third is i think Muscari commutatum alba and please if this form produces any seed could i please get a couple of you.

Thanks for the IDs. I will keep an eye on the M. commutatum alba and if any seed appears I will let you know :)
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Knud on April 09, 2011, 09:50:02 PM
Very nice pictures, everyone. I never knew there was such a variety of Muscaris. Here they are all still in bud, the one that has come furthest is M. latifolium.

Knud
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Melvyn Jope on April 16, 2011, 11:03:05 AM
A couple of variants of Muscari neglectum from near Leptokoriah Northern Greece, the first with pale blue flowers the second 'forma album'
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Janis Ruksans on April 20, 2011, 10:53:20 AM
This population of M. polyanthum oftem makes fasciation on flower spikes - here 3 spikes joyned in one.
Very nice but still unidentified sp. from my first trip to Turkey - RIGA-014
Once more Muscari neglectum from Crim
and unidentified Bellevalia from Syria - ARGI-079. May be Oron can help?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on April 22, 2011, 02:13:02 PM
A Bellevalia sp from Urgup in Cappadoica,Turkey. I collected this in 1994 and it still remains as one bulb.

 Edit on 17th August 2014 - suggestion made to ID :
B gracilis? http://www.turkiyebitkileri.com/tur-detay.aspx?ID=3212 (http://www.turkiyebitkileri.com/tur-detay.aspx?ID=3212)

Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: ArnoldT on April 26, 2011, 02:53:36 AM
A wonderful scent.
 Muscari macrocarpum
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Maggi Young on April 26, 2011, 10:44:49 AM
Just a reminder folks that the preferred Forum size for pix is 760 pixels wide and that it is helpful to have the plant name in the text of the post so the search engine can find it.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Armin on April 26, 2011, 12:35:45 PM
Tony,
that age >17 years for one bulb of Bellevalia sp is amazing! :o
Very strange it has not produced any daughter bulbs :(
Do you get seeds if you self pollinate?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on April 26, 2011, 03:39:08 PM
Tony,
that age >17 years for one bulb of Bellevalia sp is amazing! :o
Very strange it has not produced any daughter bulbs :(
Do you get seeds if you self pollinate?

Armin

I have never tried for seeds until this year when I have been pollinating it  and so I will know in a few weeks if any have set
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: art600 on April 27, 2011, 09:08:15 AM
A friend gave me seeds of a 'white' muscari a few years ago.  This year they bloomed for the first time and I was delighted to get a bonus of at least two blue muscari.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Gunilla on April 30, 2011, 08:10:40 PM
Bellevalia forniculata flowering for the first time, from JJA seed sown 2008.

Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Tony Willis on May 03, 2011, 04:23:39 PM
Muscari mirum from a 1996 collection flowering for the first time. This grows on serpentine with Crocus baytopiorum at Altinyala Turkey and was probably best left there.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: daveyp1970 on May 03, 2011, 05:16:07 PM
Muscari mirum from a 1996 collection flowering for the first time. This grows on serpentine with Crocus baytopiorum at Altinyala Turkey and was probably best left there.
Tony it might flower better next year i have seen forms with a more packed spike ;D can you save me seed if you get any please?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Knud on May 16, 2011, 10:33:51 PM
A couple of pictures of Muscari pallens, that are blooming here now. Regrettable they are planted in a less than ideal place, and where it is difficult to get good pictures of the whole plant. I will move them to a more appropriate place this year. They were grown from seed from Gardens North in 2004/2005. Their colour is mainly a pale bluish white, with a few that are pale cream.

Knud
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: listera on July 19, 2011, 07:59:43 PM
Tony, it should be Bellevalia gracilis.

A Bellevalia sp from Urgup in Cappadoica,Turkey. I collected this in 1994 and it still remains as one bulb.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Oron Peri on July 19, 2011, 09:44:34 PM
Tony, it should be Bellevalia gracilis.

A Bellevalia sp from Urgup in Cappadoica,Turkey. I collected this in 1994 and it still remains as one bulb.

I agree with lisetra, it is B. gracilis.
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Oron Peri on July 19, 2011, 09:52:28 PM
and unidentified Bellevalia from Syria - ARGI-079. May be Oron can help?

Sorry Janis, i have noticed your message only now,
The Bellevalia is probably B. densiflora Boiss..
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: fermi de Sousa on August 30, 2011, 09:37:52 AM
Muscari season in the Southern hemisphere!
Muscari muscarima
[attachthumb=1]

A purplish one received as seed as M. anatolicum but is it just a form of M. armeniacum?
[attachthumb=2]

"Dark Eyes"
[attachthumb=3]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: PeterT on August 30, 2011, 09:54:13 AM
lovely selection Fermi, I'm just repotting them here(rather late)
I always get damage on the leopoldias from frost  :'(  I imagine you are luckier in this respect?
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: Oron Peri on September 02, 2011, 02:45:02 PM
A purplish one received as seed as M. anatolicum but is it just a form of M. armeniacum?
fermi

Hi Fermi,
Infact as you thoght it is a dark form of M. armeniacum, definatly not M. anatolicum.
Oron
Title: Re: Muscari ...... and relatives 2011
Post by: PeterT on August 17, 2014, 06:27:12 AM
A Bellevalia sp from Urgup in Cappadoica,Turkey. I collected this in 1994 and it still remains as one bulb.
B gracilis? http://www.turkiyebitkileri.com/tur-detay.aspx?ID=3212 (http://www.turkiyebitkileri.com/tur-detay.aspx?ID=3212)
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