Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => Plants Wanted Or For Exchange => Topic started by: WimB on January 19, 2011, 03:01:17 PM

Title: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: WimB on January 19, 2011, 03:01:17 PM
I should say Thalictrum thalictroides 'Red Taiwan', probably.
But anyhow, does anyone here have an idea where I might be able to buy this cultivar?

And, if anyone grows it I would like to know if you think it is really as nice as on the site of Rareplants?
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 19, 2011, 03:52:29 PM
Wim, I had not heard of that cultivar, but based on the Rareplants links it does look very nice (and distinctive too) .  Not cheap as £19.50, and it is listed as out of stock.

http://rareplants.co.uk/product.asp?s=6wYYjn645368&P_ID=2546&strPageHistory=related
http://rareplants.co.uk/uploads/images_versions_large/3277.jpg
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: WimB on January 19, 2011, 04:01:55 PM
Mark, neither had I, before today, when I was searching for some info about the genus.
I don't think I have ever seen it for sale on the Rareplants site either, I certainly would have bought it if I had seen it. He probably only sold it for one year.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 19, 2011, 04:15:12 PM
So new!  Perhaps he only had 3 plants to sell ;D  I'm not sure why no one has hybridized the Anemonellas, they do make seed, and with a decent collection of them and some hand pollination, I'm sure some interesting doubles and semi-doubles might crop up.  Since the genus is sometimes called Thalictrum, I wonder too, whether they would cross with other Thalictra or other Ranunculacaea like Isopyrum.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 19, 2011, 08:34:01 PM
Old cynic that I am - and I can well believe this plant would be out-of-stock - I'm thinking what a fabulous catalogue listing one could have, with innumerable rare, gorgeous and highly desirable plants listed, all as "out of stock" or "sold out." They may never, in fact have been anywhere near the nursery concerned.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: astragalus on January 19, 2011, 08:38:44 PM
Never heard of 'Red Taiwan' before, thanks for the links, Mark.  Now if someone could please direct me to a source for Eranthis stellata, courtesy of following Mark's links!
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Hoy on January 19, 2011, 08:44:32 PM
Never heard of 'Red Taiwan' before, thanks for the links, Mark.  Now if someone could please direct me to a source for Eranthis stellata, courtesy of following Mark's links!

I had three Eranthis stellata in my garden for some years but they succumbed. I think they died of thirst! :'( Who should ever thought that possible here ???
I think I bought them from rareplants.co.uk
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Gail on January 20, 2011, 09:43:16 AM
Never heard of 'Red Taiwan' before, thanks for the links, Mark.  Now if someone could please direct me to a source for Eranthis stellata, courtesy of following Mark's links!
Jenny Archibald has seed of the eranthis listed on her new list just out.  I took the list round to a friend yesterday and left it there so I can't copy out the details but I'm sure someone here will know.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: WimB on January 20, 2011, 10:59:54 AM
Old cynic that I am - and I can well believe this plant would be out-of-stock - I'm thinking what a fabulous catalogue listing one could have, with innumerable rare, gorgeous and highly desirable plants listed, all as "out of stock" or "sold out." They may never, in fact have been anywhere near the nursery concerned.

 ;D ;D
It could be like that, too... But the picture exists...so...the plant has to exist too...no? Unless someone is creating photoshopped plants  :(
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Martin Baxendale on January 20, 2011, 11:19:45 AM
The Rare Plants online shop lists things as Out Of Stock when they're not available to order because it's the wrong time of year. He has the usual spring list for plants to order and buy in spring, mostly summer flowering stuff, and a summer list for autumn and winter-flowring stuff. All plants and bulbs are left on the website so customers can see what he usually has for sale, even if the plants or bulbs are currently on an "inactive" list so can't be ordered yet. The anemonellas should become available to order when his summer list appears later in the year.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: WimB on January 20, 2011, 12:24:25 PM
I've mailed Paul Christian personally and he told me he had that specific Anemonella from a Japanese nursery which does not export anymore. So he wil not have it for sale anymore  :'( :'(
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 20, 2011, 12:37:15 PM
Oh, that's too bad... it looks like such a distinctive cultivar.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Martin Baxendale on January 20, 2011, 12:47:52 PM
Well if he knows he's never going to be able to offer that variety again, it might be an idea to take it off the online shop! I can understand keeping something on as an indication that it might be available at some point. But if it's never going to be available?!
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Pascal B on January 20, 2011, 01:53:21 PM
I'm not sure why no one has hybridized the Anemonellas, they do make seed, and with a decent collection of them and some hand pollination, I'm sure some interesting doubles and semi-doubles might crop up.

Mark, aren't there already some nice doubles and semi-doubles developed in the US? I know they grow several doubles in Japan in various shades of lilac and pink but with most goodies from Japan they are not exported or hugely expensive. Some double ones are available via Edrom in the UK.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: TheOnionMan on January 20, 2011, 02:12:04 PM

Mark, aren't there already some nice doubles and semi-doubles developed in the US? I know they grow several doubles in Japan in various shades of lilac and pink but with most goodies from Japan they are not exported or hugely expensive. Some double ones are available via Edrom in the UK.

Yes, there are some good one's here, although they're still hard to come by, not a regularly stocked item, and rather expensive.  One of the better small offerings of this genus was with Barry Yinger's Asiatica nursery, which sadly is no longer in business.  A quick look around the the internet for nursery offerings came up fairly short, found 'Cameo' and "Schoaf's Double Pink" (there are about 6 iterations of this name), and the semi-double green one that goes around under 4 different names.  Sometimes the pale green 'Betty Blake' cultivar can be found.  This one called 'Red Taiwan' certainly looked unique, both in coloration and petal arrangement.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Pascal B on January 20, 2011, 03:02:10 PM
I have asked one of the collectors in Japan I have contact with and he had never seen this cultivar in Japan. And as you know from the Hepatica, they go nuts for doubles so where PC had that "Red Taiwan" from I don't know.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Garden Prince on January 20, 2011, 08:54:19 PM
I've mailed Paul Christian personally and he told me he had that specific Anemonella from a Japanese nursery which does not export anymore. So he wil not have it for sale anymore  :'( :'(

If I were Paul Christian I would first build some stock of this plant and  if I have a decent number of them I would start selling them. I know these Anemonellas grow slowly but the same is true for some other plants Paul Christian sells (double trilliums and Paris japonica for example).
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 20, 2011, 09:01:52 PM
Wim, and others, my comment was tongue-in-cheek. It could happen like that but I'm sure Paul Christian is advertising his plants honestly. In fact I did once know a nurseryman who listed things that he'd never had, as "sold out." but he didn't last in the trade very long.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: WimB on January 20, 2011, 09:08:37 PM
Wim, and others, my comment was tongue-in-cheek. It could happen like that but I'm sure Paul Christian is advertising his plants honestly. In fact I did once know a nurseryman who listed things that he'd never had, as "sold out." but he didn't last in the trade very long.

I can imagine he didn't last very long... talk about misleading advertising.

Anyhow, I found someone who has three plants of this cultivar (which he hasn't seen flowering). He hopes to have them flowering this year...I'm curious to see if they will be as good a colour as in the picture.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Pascal B on January 20, 2011, 09:16:18 PM
If I were Paul Christian I would first build some stock of this plant and  if I have a decent number of them I would start selling them. I know these Anemonellas grow slowly but the same is true for some other plants Paul Christian sells (double trilliums and Paris japonica for example).

Then you assume that Paul Christian actually has a nursery of his own. But from the local nurserymen in that area I talked to, and who tried to visit the place Paul Christian operates from, they highly doubt that and it could very well be that PC mainly buys and re-sells and has some people growing the unsold stock for him. Unless someone on the forum knows otherwise?
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 20, 2011, 10:05:35 PM
I can't speak for now but when I and a friend visited him (by arrangement) in 1981, he did seem to have a nursery with large groups of plants lined out. I don't remember small plants growing in pots. When we arrived he was unpacking a large box of plants from the middle east though it has always been his contention that he didn't employ collectors or sell collected plants. We doubted this, at the time.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: kalle-k.dk on January 23, 2011, 08:16:14 AM
Every year on 5 June, is a large plant market in Denmark, there are plant sellers from Germany, Holland and Belgium. One of these sellers had 3 pots of "Red Taiwan, we were lucky and bought one of these plants but the plants were small and very expensive, we hope it comes into flower this year.

Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: WimB on January 23, 2011, 10:44:38 AM
Every year on 5 June, is a large plant market in Denmark, there are plant sellers from Germany, Holland and Belgium. One of these sellers had 3 pots of "Red Taiwan, we were lucky and bought one of these plants but the plants were small and very expensive, we hope it comes into flower this year.



Nice Karl,

if it flowers for you, would you be so kind as to post a picture on this forum...I really wonder if they are as good as they seem on PC's pictures.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: mark smyth on January 23, 2011, 11:02:08 AM
I was told Paul Christian sells from his house/garage/shed as does at least one other UK nursery.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: kalle-k.dk on January 23, 2011, 07:40:40 PM
if it flowers for you, would you be so kind as to post a picture on this forum...

Yes, of course, wim
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: ArneM on February 11, 2011, 08:57:53 PM
Wim, I've seen it already twice - as a very tiny plant and unfortunately without flowers. Anyway you could try this nursery: http://www.plantworld-holland.nl/

Another option would be the Oirlicher Schneeglöckchentage where it will be certainly sold by them. I think it was about 15 € the last time.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: WimB on February 12, 2011, 12:15:51 PM
Wim, I've seen it already twice - as a very tiny plant and unfortunately without flowers. Anyway you could try this nursery: http://www.plantworld-holland.nl/

Another option would be the Oirlicher Schneeglöckchentage where it will be certainly sold by them. I think it was about 15 € the last time.

Thanks Arne,

I'll contact him.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Gerry on February 14, 2011, 08:44:38 AM
I was told Paul Christian sells from his house/garage/shed as does at least one other UK nursery.

I used to do the same for some years; but on a very much smaller scale :D I do know that PC was happy to buy in spare rarities from enthusiasts, and most nurserymen do this.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Afloden on February 16, 2011, 01:28:53 AM
  Is it even Anemonella? Anemonella thalictroides does not have broader dilated filaments. It does have thin filaments and prominent ovaries in the center. This looks far more like one of the Taiwanese Thalictrum. The photo on PC does not show petaloid stamens, but fertile ones. This looks suspiciously like Thalictrum urbainii.

 Edited to correct my statement about the filaments....
 
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: WimB on February 16, 2011, 06:43:51 AM
 Is it even Anemonella? Anemonella thalictroides has much broader dilated filaments and prominent ovaries in the center. This looks far more like one of the Taiwanese Thalictrum. The photo on PC does not show petaloid stamens, but fertile ones. This looks suspiciously like Thalictrum urbainii.

 

I have no idea. The pics I've seen are not very clear. As soon as I get my plant and it flowers I'll post a pic here. Someone who has seen the plant in flower told me the flower looks a lot like Thalictrum kiusianum.  But you might be very right; take a look here: http://www.shikoku-garden.com/lists/List2009/Thalictrum-Trautvetteria09.htm at: Thalictrum urbaini 'Taiwan Baika'.

Thanks for pointing that out, Aaron.
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: WimB on April 21, 2011, 06:45:04 PM
Here are a couple of pics of the plant I got as A. thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'. It most certainly is no Anemonella.
I'm in doubt between Thalictum urbaini (http://www.shikoku-garden.com/images/019-012.jpg) or Thalictrum rubescens (http://alm-alpines.com/gallery_ran4.htm)!
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: Afloden on April 27, 2011, 06:44:50 PM
Judging by the number of ovaries (to become achenes) present I would say that it is T. urbainii. Thalictrum rubescens has 30-50 vs the 10-25 of T. urbainii.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Anemonella thalictroides 'Red Taiwan'
Post by: WimB on April 28, 2011, 06:34:10 PM
Thanks, Aaron. I'll change my label!
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