Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: krisderaeymaeker on January 03, 2011, 09:57:12 PM
-
This weekend the second flower on Colchicum doerfleri. (first two pics)
On the other hand the flower of Colchicum hirsutum does'nt open ...
-
Here are 2 small Colchicum from Jordan, unidentified. Could be C. ritchii but is really different from the description, and leaves are also much narrower.
Does anybody have an idea ??
edit ... much later.... see http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6438.msg228300#msg228300
-
Fred, I am not sure.
The first one looks like C. serpentinum (syn. falcifolium) which we have also in south east of TR.
For second one I am not sure!
-
Hi Fred,
I think the first one is Colchicum schimperi which is a close species to C. ritchii but has narrower leaves and smaller flowers. It is described from Edom in Jordan.
C. ritchii has always 3 leaves-in the photo I see only 2...
Better ask the Expert for ID ;)
-
Thank's Ibrahim and Miriam.
In fact, the second one looks like C. schimperi, I'll search for it in the flora.
See you soon... ;D
-
Here are 2 small Colchicum from Jordan, unidentified. Could be C. ritchii but is really different from the description, and leaves are also much narrower.
Does anybody have an idea ??
Fred, you must ask to Oron - he knows them perfectly.
Janis
-
Already done Janis ;)
Seems to be either C. tauri or C. shimperi but according to oron, taxonomy isn't very clear.
-
Already done Janis ;)
Seems to be either C. tauri or C. shimperi but according to oron, taxonomy isn't very clear.
Despite looking quite different i think both belong to the same species, but in order to tell 100% bulbs should be checked, color of tunics and form of the bulb.
I also think Fred, and correct me if I'm wrong that the petals of the white form are not representative of this species , generally petals are more elongated, something in between these two forms you have photographed.
Colchicum shimperi has wider, 3-4 leaves.
-
Well Oron, you should be right !
Here are 2 more pics with more elongated petals, but style is shorter than in the pink form. It's possibly a variation between plants.
leaves are very similar...
edit ... much later.... see http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6438.msg228300#msg228300
-
Wow, Fred. I love that first pic. Very spidery petals, which make a great "feathery" clump.
-
Great show Fred ! Like the spidery ones ...
Here today in flower are :
Colchicum luteum "Vahsh" ( pic1 )
Colchicum brachyphyllum ( 2 & 3 )
Colchicum ritschii (4 )
-
Some really super Colchicum being shown here.
Here are some notes from a friend in New Zealand, Betty Clark, about how she grows from seed and also about how she finds some species to be with her...
RE: growing Colchicum from seed.
I collect the seed as soon as it is ready I then put in paper bag and keep at room temperature for several days.
Now this is my treatment for all bulbs: A shaking of stone chips in pot then half fill with Potting Mix then fill with seed mix. Pour over a generous amount of boiling water to cleanse then when cold plant seeds on top bringing the pot to top with very fine stone chippings. I do not cover and they stand on shade bench until they germinate. Last year I planted in margarine containers with holes and have had thousands of seeds grow. I leave them without disturbance for another year when I repot. Have done these for the last 30 years and as you can imagine I am getting a little long in the tooth now. It is impossible to identify colchicum by looking at the flower only. You need a year for measuring the leaves.
The first to flower with me is C.byzantinum, in March. Differs from cilicium in that the stamens are curved at ends. They are tipped with crimson dull yellow segments. Rarely sets seed. Leaves in early spring are 30cm long ribbed and corrugated. It come later into leaf than C. baytopiorum.
C arenarium, March, Pale pink punctate rounded at tip Segments 2cm wide 3.5long Leaves 2 to 5 per corm Often confused with C.alpininum which has more leaves.
C. balansae March Several pink flowers per corm Hook on top of style with pale yellow stamens. Leaves shiny green,segments 4 to 7cm long Very deep corms
C. tenori Halfway between tesselated form of agrippinum In shape like C.autumnale, only crimson colour of stigmatic hook which is continued a little way down style.
Collectors No HC 1051 Henning Christanson Faintly chequered I have a letter confirming that he had sent bulbs to Mary Evans which I now have. I still have her collection and hope too clean a lot up this year.
See this post for first mention of HC1051......
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3148.msg70357#msg70357
-
Here is C kessellringii just into flower
-
Thank you Maggi for this information.
Time again for a few more flowering Colchicum.
C. luteum 'Vahsh stil in good shape...
Second , Colchicum kesselringii 'Purple Star'
-
On the picture is a plant that I have under the Archibald number JJA14518. The only information that I have is that it was collected near Göktepe.
Does anyone recognise this Colchicum ?
-
Luc, this is a Merendera attica which has not a clear flower tube. It has like divided flower tube!
Here is my sample for this plant.
-
For something more than week my colchicums got some fresh air, but blooming still very - I would like to explain as carefull. Next Wednesday will return hard frost and all pots again will be covered with glasswool sheets. So you can see here how looks Colchicum pots in greenhose today and two pictures of my Colchicum atticum (some still names them as Merendera attica). Not my most favourable species, but one of the earliest in spring.
On last picture shoots of autumn blooming C. sanguicolle clearly explaining why such name was given to this beautiful Colchicum.
Janis
-
Few more Colchicums of today.
Colchicum asteranthum
2 stocks of C. hirsutum (3 pictures)
and
2 stocks of C. serpentinum.
That is almost all blooming at present, few more only shows buds out of pots.
Janis
-
Luc, this is a Merendera attica which has not a clear flower tube. It has like divided flower tube!
Here is my sample for this plant.
Thanks Ibrahim.
-
Luc, this is a Merendera attica which has not a clear flower tube. It has like divided flower tube!
Here is my sample for this plant.
There are hunderds of this plant here!. And most distinguishing characteristic is indeed the divided flower tube. Also it is fragrant.
-
we still have frost outside, this old closing of two weeks, within my greenhouse
Colchicum hungaricum
-
Colchicum kesselringii 'Purple Star' :o beauty!
Here I have hungaricum, hungaricum Velebit Star, kesselringii, luteum and mirzovae
C. kesselringii in one of my troughs
-
Colchicum kesselringii 'Purple Star' :o beauty!
Here I have hungaricum, hungaricum Velebit Star, kesselringii, luteum and mirzovae
C. kesselringii in one of my troughs
Mark,
WOW, do you grow your C. kesselringii outside in a trough? Without protection?
-
Mark
lovely :o, mine it seems grown in a period of scarcity :-[
-
Mark
lovely :o, mine it seems grown in a period of scarcity :-[
No, no! It don't look as keselringii. From whom it comes under such name?
Janis
-
Fabulous kesselringii Mark.
Thankyou for showing the different forms you have Janis, hirsutum is over here, atticum is not yet out.
Merendera robustum, leptantherum i also took a picture of, and one which lost its lable - could it be hungaricum? also a picture of falcifolium from Norman stevens a few years ago
-
Merendera is included in Colchicum but it differs by having no flower tube right?
-
I believe so Arda, the picture is of a merendera , I cant remember if hungaricum has a tube.
-
I believe so Arda, the picture is of a merendera , I cant remember if hungaricum has a tube.
It does, here's the white form and the pink form
Colchicum hungaricum
-
Thanks Diane, lovely hungaricum. The history of the lost lable is that i dismantled a trough, C hungaricum was also in the trough.
I labled the plant last year as being a merendera.
-
Merendera is included in Colchicum but it differs by having no flower tube right?
In "merendera" elongated bases of flower segments are not joined together forming flower tube as in typical Colchicum. Now Karin Person (Gothenburg BG) joined Marendera and Bulbocodium in one Genus as Colchicum.
Janis
-
After I posted my Colchicum pictures for an hour sun started to shine and I maid few shots of same pots - now with open flowers.
Janis
-
Mark
lovely :o, mine it seems grown in a period of scarcity :-[
No, no! It don't look as keselringii. From whom it comes under such name?
Janis
Janis
after the cures in my hospital, the next year something changes
at least I hope
-
Spring is on the way to my garden in Vienna. Last week we had 20 cm snow and -9° C.
Colchicum hungaricum
-
Very nice Colchicums everyone.
Just going back to september 2010. We spot this Colchicum balansae in Rhodos. I just start to upload my pictures , so sorry for the delay.
-
Very nice photos from the land of the Knights Hospitaller
-
Very nice photos from the land of the Knights Hospitaller
With this answer I learn a bit about the culture and history Arda.Thank you.
-
You are welcome Kris :)
I know them because they were a big problem for Ottoman Empire. We know them as "Rhodos Knights"
-
Some flowering Colchicums from the past weekend...
1/Colchicum luteum 'Golden Baby'
2 & 3/ Colchicum luteum x kesselringii 'Janis'
4 & 5/ Colchicum kesselringii ' Purple Star'
6/ Colchicum szovitsii ' Tivi '
-
Some really super Colchicum being shown here.
Here are some notes from a friend in New Zealand, Betty Clark, about how she grows from seed and also about how she finds some species to be with her...
RE: growing Colchicum from seed.
I collect the seed as soon as it is ready I then put in paper bag and keep at room temperature for several days.
Now this is my treatment for all bulbs: A shaking of stone chips in pot then half fill with Potting Mix then fill with seed mix. Pour over a generous amount of boiling water to cleanse then when cold plant seeds on top bringing the pot to top with very fine stone chippings. I do not cover and they stand on shade bench until they germinate. Last year I planted in margarine containers with holes and have had thousands of seeds grow. I leave them without disturbance for another year when I repot. Have done these for the last 30 years and as you can imagine I am getting a little long in the tooth now. It is impossible to identify colchicum by looking at the flower only. You need a year for measuring the leaves.
The first to flower with me is C.byzantinum, in March. Differs from cilicium in that the stamens are curved at ends. They are tipped with crimson dull yellow segments. Rarely sets seed. Leaves in early spring are 30cm long ribbed and corrugated. It come later into leaf than C. baytopiorum.
C arenarium, March, Pale pink punctate rounded at tip Segments 2cm wide 3.5long Leaves 2 to 5 per corm Often confused with C.alpininum which has more leaves.
C. balansae March Several pink flowers per corm Hook on top of style with pale yellow stamens. Leaves shiny green,segments 4 to 7cm long Very deep corms
C. tenori Halfway between tesselated form of agrippinum In shape like C.autumnale, only crimson colour of stigmatic hook which is continued a little way down style.
Collectors No HC 1051 Henning Christanson Faintly chequered I have a letter confirming that he had sent bulbs to Mary Evans which I now have. I still have her collection and hope too clean a lot up this year.
See this post for first mention of HC1051......
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3148.msg70357#msg70357
Some more on Colchicum from Betty Clark:
In honour of Mary Evans who challenged me to sort out the Colchicum Species.
To those that will disagree with me I need your reasons Please just dont write me off. For many years I have been collecting information from all writings that I can lay my hands on. Impossible to do by looking at the flowers you need bulb size leaf size and that takes a full year for each species. Some flowers open with anything in between to 3months later.
is my first offering.
Colchicum byzantinum Autumn here 11 Feb.
10-20 pale lilac/pink flowers per corm Very faint white stripe
First showing white with pink tip
Tepals rounded at apex 3-4cms by 1.6cms wide
Styles white with pink tip divided into 3 longer stamens, yellow turning brown.
Leaves ribbed 15cmwide by 30cms long These do not appear until MAY>
Corm largest DOES NOT SET SEED
Probably a hybrid between C. autumnale and C.cilicium
Differs from C cilicium, which has a bright crimson to stamens Anthers not crooked at tip with leaves soon after flowering
E.A.Bowles, Patrick Synge and Byran and other journals can't be wrong.
Betty Clark
106 Elizabeth St
Ashburton 7700
New Zealand
-
All my spring Colchicums in full flower below glass-wool covering. Can't take it of because next night minus 15 C offered :'( :'( :'(
Janis
-
I posted these pics to the SH thread for confirmation but thought I'd try here as well!
This came from a friend as Colchicum corsicum
[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]
And this one I grew from Srgc Seedex 2004 as Colchicum sibthorpii
[attachthumb=3]
[attachthumb=4]
What do others think?
cheers
fermi
-
Fermi, took those photos a minute ago , maybe they will prove to be of some help.
Colch. corsicum was grown from seed ( it sets seeds in great quantities ) sent to me by E.B. Anderson
many years ago =1965 .
As far as I know C. sibthorpii is a synon of C. bivonae - could not find a specimen that had not been munched by snails .
-
Hi,
Just a few to add to Otto's autumnal offerings.
Colchicum agrippinum
Colchicum macrophyllum from Profitis Ilias on Rhodos
Colchicum byzantium - thats what I know this as. I found it growing happily around an abandoned farm house in the Victoria Valley here in Tasmania. There are 100s here all doing well and apparently given a wide birth by both livestock and macropods respectively.
Cheers, Marcus
-
Hi again,
A quick whip around the garden has yielded further species.
A more pristine version of C. bivonae than Otto's
Colchicum davisii
Colchicum variegatum collected as seed on Mt Ambelos, Samos
Colchicum cilicicum collected as seed with Norman Stevens south of Gulnar in amongst scads of Fritillaria persica
Colchicum laetum
Colchicum cretense collected as seed above Omolos Plain where I lost my bag with my wallet in it and the local restauranter found it with his telescope!
Cheers, Marcus
-
Would it be fair to say that my "sibthorpii" is more likely to be a form of C. cilicium?
cheers
fermi
-
Hi Fermi,
I would say yes that is correct you can see from Otto's and my plants that bivonae (syn. sibthorpii) is chequered, much rosier in colour, has a distinct whiteness in the throat and the pollen colour is different. It also has a different, distinct shape but I am still trying to get my head around the NZ notes. These are very specific and interesting but on first observations my plants don't conform so readily to.
The plant I have posted as C. cilicicum sets copious amounts of seed and has narrower leaves than the one I have posted as byzantinum which never sets seeds. But at first blush the flowers are VERY similar. Maybe my wild collection have slightly more richly coloured pink flowers and perhaps a more pronounced white central line. I think Betty might mean stigma or style rather than stamen??? Both my lots have violet tips to these and maybe the pollen on byzantinum does turn brownish, but I am not sure about this??
Cheers, Marcus
-
Hi again,
A few pics for point of comparison.
Colchicum bivonae syn. sibthorpii
Colchicum cilicicum wild collection
Colchicum ? byzantinum collected at old farmhouse surviving Heavens Knows how long in the wilds of Tasmania, never sets seed.
Cheers, Marcus
-
PS The crooked style tip as a "dead giveaway for C. byzatinum" -- Pacific Bulb Society, I don't think is sustainable on the evidence available in my pictures :-\.
Marcus
-
Few Colchicum's pictured today - Colchicum hirsutum and various stocks of serpentinum
Janis
-
Some more Colchicums blooming now, few still unidentified - simply haven't ime for Colchicum's now.
Janis
Colchicum ancyrense Crim -01.JPG
Colchicum kesselringii -01.JPG
Colchicum kesselringii Modesty -03.JPG
Colchicum kesselringii Purple Star -01.JPG
Colchicum kesselringii x Janis -05.JPG
Colchicum kesselringii x luteum #2 -05.JPG
Colchicum sp. JATU-067 -03.JPG
Colchicum sp. SASA-236 -06.JPG
Colchicum szowitsii LST-167 -04.JPG
Colchicum triphyllum -02.JPG
-
Some of my Colchicum's flowering now.bye Ray
Colchicum agrippinum
Colchicum parnassicum
Colichicum lustanicum
Colchicum micranthum
Colchicum autumnale alba
Colchicum spesiosum album
Colchicum speciosum bornmuelleri
-
Few Colchicums
C. jolanthae from Iran - 2 pictures
C. lagotis was discovered during my trip together with Arnis and Gothenburg BG - we immediately recognised it as new, earlier unknown species.
2 pictures of Colchicum luteum
and unidentified Colchicum from Iran
Janis
-
Few more spring Colchicums
C. munzurense
close to munzurense, but something different
C. raddeanum
C. robustum
and 3 unidentified samples.
Janis
-
My first Colchicum in the summer/autumn season. The Prospero autumnale in the background have misunderstood something. It is summer now!
Poul
-
HELP!! I've not reached them yet!!
-
My Colchicum graecum flowers this year very early.
-
Colchicum Graecum is out here too Franz
-
My first Colchicum in the summer/autumn season. The Prospero autumnale in the background have misunderstood something. It is summer now!
Poul
Very good form Poul ! Like the good tessellation . Here parnassicum is stil not above the ground...
-
My Colchicum graecum flowers this year very early.
Colchicum Graecum is out here too Franz
Here graecum is stil a "sleeping beauty "... ;D Yours are realy early Franz and Peter.
The first here for this season is Colchicum kotschyi .The weather was realy not so good last days ,so flowers not opened...
-
Last week the first Colchicum started flowering here too...I guess Autumn has started ;)
Colchicum bivonae 'Apollo'
-
In the Vanoise park, right time to find now Colchicum alpinum this week.
-
I'm amazed these Colchicums are flowering. Has the weather cooled that much?
I rarely see any Colchicums until the end of August.
-
I'm amazed these Colchicums are flowering. Has the weather cooled that much?
I rarely see any Colchicums until the end of August.
Well, here it has. We had temps up to 30°C and very dry weather in April and now we are down to 15 - 18°C max. and they predict constant rain or showers for the next week. It feels as though it's Autumn here.
-
In the Vanoise park, right time to find now Colchicum alpinum this week.
Good color Fred. Between two showers I could finally take a picture of Colchicum kotschyi ...
-
Oii, I have missed the start of the colchicum season.
But there is no nose out, im my garden!?
What do you do?
-
Hagen, do as I do... be grateful that it is still summer in your garden! ;)
-
What do you do?
Complain that it is to wet and to cold at the moment Hagen. ;)
But in the case of Colchicum kotschyi I think it is normal that he is already in flower . In their habitat they are flowering in june /july ? That is what I have read somewhere.
Other noses also hidden under the ground...
-
Hi Kris. Early in the year (middle of february) I was in Belgium to visit some friends with galanthus in their gardens. And it was like a pre-season to me because our galanthus have their season four weeks later. Now I could came the second time to belgium for the pre-season of colchicum......
The most early colchicums here, will be C. speciosum bornmuellerii and AUTUMN QUEEN, both end of August
-
Hi Kris. Early in the year (middle of february) I was in Belgium to visit some friends with galanthus in their gardens. And it was like a pre-season to me because our galanthus have their season four weeks later. Now I could came the second time to belgium for the pre-season of colchicum......
The most early colchicums here, will be C. speciosum bornmuellerii and AUTUMN QUEEN, both end of August
Hello Hagen , yesterday I would not speak about a pre-season but today I have Colchicum montanum above the ground and Colchicum tenorii is getting ready to make flowerbuds .
So you are maybe right about the pre-season :D
So you maybe must come to Belgium again one of those days.
-
Some Colchicum seed found its way into my pocket whilst we were in Zermatt, when is the best time to sow it? and does it need to be in the fridge first?
-
Oh Shelagh, in our experience, colchicum seed is a law unto itself! :-[
Have a look at this thread to see if you can get inspiration.....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3549.0
-
More often than not I get reasonable results sowing colchicum seeds, I try to prevent fresh seed drying out too much and as I understand is best with Crocus and believe with Junos, I always try to get them sown early while there is some warmth before winter. This ties in with the information on the link posted by Maggie. usually I have to pick the seeds out of my pots long after the capsuals open, and the seeds usually germinate well.
-
1 - 2. Colchicum montanum in open garden
3. Colchicum montanum under glass
These pics is a proof that the flowering trigger is temperature gradients and not watering. The first one in the open garden have been more or less wet the whole summer while the one under glass have been bone dry. The flowers appeared within two days.
Poul
-
Good to see your example of the temperature changes triggering the flowering, Poul. Here in Aberdeen is it getting colder and colder ... terrible to see what the temperature changes are doing to the gardeners! ;)
-
1 - 2. Colchicum montanum in open garden
3. Colchicum montanum under glass
These pics is a proof that the flowering trigger is temperature gradients and not watering. The first one in the open garden have been more or less wet the whole summer while the one under glass have been bone dry. The flowers appeared within two days.
Poul
Very interesting Poul and exactly what I always tought about a lot of Colchicums....I saw them flowering in habitat in places where it was bonedry and the autumnrain was not started yet.
-
then dry summers trigger flowering?
-
I have a Colchicum in flower. Ian Y's tessellated bulbs
-
I think there are many triggers for flowering in bulbs.
I've had plants come into growth in the basement with pretty constant temperature and light provided by a HID light on a set schedule.
Colchicum can flower sitting on a shelf without the temp changes or even moisture.
Internal clocks most likely are involved. An inhibitor is consumed at a slow rate during dormancy. When the inhibitor is all gone the flowers come.
Arnold
-
Internal clocks most likely are involved. An inhibitor is consumed at a slow rate during dormancy. When the inhibitor is all gone the flowers come.
That sounds interesting. I have never heard before.
Poul
-
I think there are many triggers for flowering in bulbs.
I've had plants come into growth in the basement with pretty constant temperature and light provided by a HID light on a set schedule.
Colchicum can flower sitting on a shelf without the temp changes or even moisture.
Internal clocks most likely are involved. An inhibitor is consumed at a slow rate during dormancy. When the inhibitor is all gone the flowers come.
Arnold
Makes sense...
-
Marcus Harvey of Hillview Rare Plants in Tasmania has a new seed-list which includes some Colchicums; if you want a copy please send me a PM with your e-mail address.
cheers
fermi
-
I think there are many triggers for flowering in bulbs.
I've had plants come into growth in the basement with pretty constant temperature and light provided by a HID light on a set schedule.
Colchicum can flower sitting on a shelf without the temp changes or even moisture.
Internal clocks most likely are involved. An inhibitor is consumed at a slow rate during dormancy. When the inhibitor is all gone the flowers come.
Arnold
I've seen signs of this in some of my Haemanthus. They seem to "remember" how long it has been since the last time they flowered. It also explains how hard it can be to get a bulb to switch hemispheres.
Jim
-
Just going back to first page in order to give the correct names.
Fred, First photo is C. shimperi, second is C. crocifolium and the third is C. fasciculare.
Took me a whole year to get the right ID. ;)
Edit by maggi: refers to these pix
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6438.msg178855#msg178855
http://www.srgc.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6438.msg179535#msg179535:
-
Wahooo !
Great Oron ! very good job !
You're not very fast.... but very efficient ;D ;D ;D :P
Thank's a lot,, and How did you find the ID ?
we'll talk about it later ;)