Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: Hoy on December 31, 2010, 09:30:17 AM

Title: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Hoy on December 31, 2010, 09:30:17 AM
The Meadow Cress (Cuckoo flower, Ladies Smock etc) (Cardamine pratensis) is the "State Flower" of this region. Few people grow it in beds but it forms large patches in moist meadows. It is sometimes a weed. However I let some of the plants that pop up stand, they are shortlived perennials. The color of the petals vary from almost white to dark pink, and the size of the petals vary considerably.

Another cress, Coralroot (C. bulbifera) also is a native of Norway. However, I had to plant it in my garden where it now proliferate. It is easy to use the bulbils, seeds are rare. This one does prefere the shade in woodland.
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Hoy on December 31, 2010, 09:40:34 AM
This genus contains more than 100 species, many are weeds. Other gardenworthy plants are
C. enneaphyllos, heptaphylla, . . . .
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Hoy on December 31, 2010, 09:43:32 AM
 . . . pentaphyllos and waldsteinii. All these make excellent plants in the spring woodland garden.
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Martinr on December 31, 2010, 10:46:15 AM
You've inspired me to go seed hunting. Beautiful woodland plants of which I only have pratensis, whcih grows naturally in the garden but not in any great abundance.
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Paul T on December 31, 2010, 12:40:05 PM
Trond,

I love the pentaphyllos.  Great pink.  I have one cardamine (unknown species) that I grow here, but haven't had much to do with them.  That pentaphyllos inspires me to think further on them.  ;D

Thanks for showing us.
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Lori S. on December 31, 2010, 05:34:08 PM
What beauties, Trond!  I think the only ones I have are Cardamine trifoliata and C. enneaphylla, but I clearly need to expand my horizons to include those very showy ones.  I will need to go seed hunting too!
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Paddy Tobin on December 31, 2010, 06:27:29 PM
Trond,

A lovely selection. I grow a few in the garden but I found C. bulbifera a complete pest, so many bulbils and so many plants that it became a weed.

Paddy
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: cohan on December 31, 2010, 07:29:22 PM
i like them all! especially the pinks, and the emerging foliage on enneaphyllos and heptaphylla is really nice!
we have some little (probably weed, but maybe not, i only call it weed if its foreign) thing in the brassicaceae that grows in semi disturbed wet areas, which overwinters as tiny rosettes that have really nice colour in spring--in those first weeks when the snow is gone and nothing is growing, i search for those rosettes as a sign of hope :)
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Hoy on January 01, 2011, 09:42:00 AM
Thanks all! Myself I think that pentaphyllos is the showiest one. I have a white (or almost white) clone of it but the pink form is best. It is easy to divide but I have never seen good seeds.
In early spring enneaphyllos is exciting when it emerges from the leaf litter but the flowers won't win prizes.
heptaphylla (should have been heptaphyllos if you ask me!) is a little later and also taller than the others. It is self-sowing a little but I don't mind. waldsteinii also is very nice but haven't produced viable seeds so far.
As Paddy says bulbifera spreads its bulbils a lot but I let it do so in my woodland. Anyway the bulbils are easily removed.
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Stephenb on January 01, 2011, 01:19:46 PM
Nice pictures, Trond! I can add that in this part of Norway, Cardamine pratensis is often seen in lawns or under fruit trees. Here's a couple of pictures from a garden I pass on my bike ride to work. I've tried to introduce it in my "lawn" but it sadly doesn't thrive (probably too dry). There's also a nice double flowered variant which I planted (in a bed) last year.

I'm incidentally still looking for some of the North American Dentarias which are sadly not often offered: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5915.0 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5915.0) 
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Stephenb on January 01, 2011, 01:41:21 PM
1. My pentaphyllos with Trillium camschatcense and Hylomecon japonicum
2. Cardamine trifoliata
3. Cardamine macrophylla
4. Cardamine alternifolia (Kew Gardens)
5. Cardamine asarifolia
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Hoy on January 01, 2011, 02:18:05 PM
Nice with Cardamine & Trillium, Stephen! I haven't yet succeeded much with my Trilliums. They somehow won't increase, barely exist.
I managed to germinate C. laciniata last summer. Hope the seedlings survive the winter.
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: SusanS on January 01, 2011, 02:22:59 PM
what beautiful plants, I always look forward to seeming them appear in our roadside verges. 

I like the look of heptahylla and pentaphyllus.  Are they scented?

The photograph of the pratensis lawn is wonderful, if only more lawns looked like that.  :)
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Hoy on January 01, 2011, 02:56:47 PM
what beautiful plants, I always look forward to seeming them appear in our roadside verges. 

I like the look of heptahylla and pentaphyllus.  Are they scented?

The photograph of the pratensis lawn is wonderful, if only more lawns looked like that.  :)
Susan, I have never discerned any scent but I haven't put my nose very close to investigate either!
When spring arrives, I'll tell you for sure!
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: cohan on January 01, 2011, 09:26:43 PM
1. My pentaphyllos with Trillium camschatcense and Hylomecon japonicum
2. Cardamine trifoliata
3. Cardamine macrophylla
4. Cardamine alternifolia (Kew Gardens)
5. Cardamine asarifolia

more nice ones! i like trifoliata with glaucous foliage--does that mean it is less a woodland plant?
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Hoy on January 01, 2011, 11:33:03 PM
cohan, I grow my trifoliata with only some morning sun, the rest of the day it is in the shade of some shrubs.
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Lori S. on January 01, 2011, 11:44:52 PM
My C. trifoliata is also shaded under a crabapple, no direct sun.  I wouldn't say the foliage is glaucous though - just green, really... quite evergreen, too.
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Lori S. on January 01, 2011, 11:58:57 PM
Hmmm, I just realized that there is apparently both a C. trifoliata (native to Nepal, etc.) and a C. trifolia (native to N.A.  correction: Europe)... I have mine listed as the former, but now I wonder if that's correct.  I wonder what the differences are?  
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Hoy on January 02, 2011, 12:16:14 AM
Hmmm, I just realized that there is apparently both a C. trifoliata (native to Nepal, etc.) and a C. trifolia (native to N.A.)... I have mine listed as the former, but now I wonder if that's correct.  I wonder what the differences are?  
No, I don't know, Lori. I just bought Stephens name from his picture but when I look into the matter I think I have C. trifolia (a European species?)! Have to go out tomorrow and look closer!
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: cohan on January 02, 2011, 12:28:16 AM
looks like that one would take more time to research than i am willing to devote to it! (or knowing the right places to look!)
a quick googling did not clear up the matter: google wanted me to always say 'trifolia' and image searches for both seem to have a lot of overlap
heronswood lists C trifolia, native to italy and balkans, height 6 inches; they don't say evergreen..
http://www.heronswood.com/perennials_cardamine/cardamine-trifolia/

edrom lists C trifoliata, 32.5-45 cm high, evergreen
http://www.edrom-nurseries.co.uk/shop/pc/Cardamine-trifoliata-35p7921.htm
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Lori S. on January 02, 2011, 12:50:54 AM
Oops, looks like I drew some erroneous conclusions from my quick look!  Yes, I see now that C. trifolia has a European range.  (I saw something about its use by settlers in the Appalachians that made me think, wrongly, that it was a native N. A. plant.)  That seems to be the one I have, based on the size (and probably on availability)... Some reports say it is evergreen, some not don't mention it.  
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: cohan on January 02, 2011, 12:57:47 AM
Oops, looks like I drew some erroneous conclusions from my quick look!  Yes, I see now that C. trifolia has a European range.  (I saw something about its use by settlers in the Appalachians that made me think, wrongly, that it was a native N. A. plant.)  That seems to be the one I have, based on the size (and probably on availability)... Some reports say it is evergreen, some not. 

maybe with a wide range there are natural variations in its habit..
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Hoy on January 02, 2011, 09:07:23 AM
My plants are evergreen, that's a fact! Even the strong cold doesn't turn one leaf brown!
The New Royal Horticultural Society Dictionary of Gardening lists many cardamines but only one trifolia, not trifoliata.
Flowers of Himalaya by Adam Stainton mentions a few but neither trifolia or trifoliata.
Maybe trifoliata is a misnomer?
Here's my plant today!
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Stephenb on January 02, 2011, 09:26:29 AM
I discovered my error yesterday and had just come in to correct this and I see it's already discovered ;) I'm pretty sure it's C. trifolia, the Trifoliate Bittercress,  I have. It's noted in my Alpine flora as being found in moist woods and shady places, often on limestone to 1400m.

The other one (from the Himalayas) is, believe it or not, TRIFOLIOLATA (IPNI names database). Why that extra "OL"? Why not Trifolioliolioata? See also: http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=cardamine (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=cardamine)
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Hoy on January 02, 2011, 10:06:15 AM
Ok, make sense, Stephen, but I can't find trifoliolata either in any of my books! That species can't be commonly grown!
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Stephenb on January 02, 2011, 10:22:27 AM
No, I've never seen it.

It's in the Flora of China: http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200009348  (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200009348)
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Gerdk on January 02, 2011, 12:04:09 PM
The other one (from the Himalayas) is, believe it or not, TRIFOLIOLATA (IPNI names database). Why that extra "OL"? Why not Trifolioliolioata? See also: http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=cardamine (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=cardamine)

If you have problems with ' trifoliotralala ' - why don't you use the Chinese name ? 

san xiao ye sui mi ji

not that difficult!      ;)

Gerd
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Stephenb on January 02, 2011, 05:01:51 PM
 :)

No problem, Gerd. I've recorded my rendering of the Chinese and you can hear it here:

http://tinyurl.com/3xevz85  (http://tinyurl.com/3xevz85)
(You will need to click on listen)

..and, yes, my voice hasn't broken yet... ;)

Did I pronounce it correctly?

Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Lori S. on January 02, 2011, 05:16:05 PM
Ah ha!  Thank you for explaining it, Gerd! 
I see that I was misled by this site, which looks like they got the range right but the name wrong ("trifoliata" when they evidently meant "trifoliolata"):
http://www.icimod.org/hkhconservationportal/Plant.aspx?ID=6816

Aside from that, it looks like "trifoliata" is used quite a lot (incorrectly, it seems) in reference to C. trifolia, as well!
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: cohan on January 02, 2011, 10:50:56 PM
interesting--so i wonder if the nursery link i posted above, with the larger species, is really trifoliolata? one of few carrying it, if so...
Title: Re: Gardenworthy cress - Cardamines
Post by: Gerdk on January 03, 2011, 07:37:55 AM
:)

No problem, Gerd. I've recorded my rendering of the Chinese and you can hear it here:
http://tinyurl.com/3xevz85  (http://tinyurl.com/3xevz85)
(You will need to click on listen)
..and, yes, my voice hasn't broken yet... ;)
Did I pronounce it correctly?

Sorry Stephen,
My  (antiquated) browser refuses to speak Chinese - so other people have to
decide about your pronunciation!  ;)

Gerd
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