Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Natalia on December 15, 2010, 05:39:13 PM

Title: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 15, 2010, 05:39:13 PM
 In other theme me have asked: whether is in our woods сolour forms Corydalis?
 It is the illustrated answer. 

About 10 years ago I has casually found the first population Corydalis solyda with different colours. And then and some more places with multi-coloured plants.
 Found Corydalis solida not to compare with high-quality, but they are very various. :)

In the beginning of photo Corydalis solida from population found out by the very first.

In the first place there was a lot of a different type of white crested birds and practically there were no pink.
Plants with white colours flowers bloom earlier, so their picture is almost there.


Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 15, 2010, 05:42:20 PM
Corydalis solida from the first place
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 15, 2010, 05:46:55 PM
Last photos Corydalis solida from the first place.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Maggi Young on December 15, 2010, 05:58:35 PM
Some interesting variations already, Natalia.  8)

I see that bumble bees in Russian woods are just as happy to cheat the flowers by chewing their way in to the nectar by a hole in the spur as the bees here are.... you can see this in several photos but it is most clear in pic 15.... see the chewed holes?
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 15, 2010, 06:04:09 PM
Maggi, it only the first place.

 Who has made apertures - I can not tell, but I suspect that ants have made them to reach sweet nectar.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 15, 2010, 06:18:16 PM
Тhis photo of plants from the first place transferred to a garden.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 15, 2010, 06:21:32 PM
Plants from a new place.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 15, 2010, 06:30:27 PM
Some books say that the color depends on soil pH. Probably so. But it depends on heredity more. :)
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 15, 2010, 07:14:02 PM
This last spring I had the first flowers on seedlings from Martin Baxendale's seed, kindly sent to me. A couple of really good, pure pinks, some lavenders and a decent red, so far. There are maybe 100 altogether. :) I think they are from Ruksans' Penza strain.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Maggi Young on December 15, 2010, 07:56:27 PM
Yes, I think heredity is important for the colour.

Quote
Who has made apertures - I can not tell, but I suspect that ants have made them to reach sweet nectar.

We have no ants  in our garden.... we have watched the bees make the apertures here to reach the nectar but I expect ants can be clever this way too!
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 15, 2010, 08:18:24 PM
Lesley, I also love these flowers!
 In the forest they bloom among the first!
I have a variety Corydalis, including several varieties of Janis Ruksans. They are magnificent!
But me interestingly independently to find Coydalis solida various colourings.

Maggi, maybe it bees do, but did not see them doing this. The wasp can make such apertures?

Some photos of plants from other places.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 15, 2010, 08:21:06 PM
Some more photos.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 15, 2010, 08:23:20 PM
Сontinuation...
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Maggi Young on December 15, 2010, 08:57:47 PM
Quote
The wasp can make such apertures?
Oh yes, they can.

 A delightful variation with these flowers.   A pleasure to be able to see, by these clear photos  the small differences in them. 8)
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 15, 2010, 09:26:39 PM
Thanks for posting these pictures, Natalia! Very impressive, you have found a lot of special colours.

I do collect Corydalis in my woodland and have bought some corms from Ruksans and others. I do not keep the named varieties separate but let them all selfsow in the garden. Here are two pictures of C. solida and one of an unknown species that suddenly germinated in a pot (anybody knowing what it is?).

Do you collect seeds or corms, Natalia? I would be interested in swapping or buying from you!

I know bumblebees which are the stronger of these insects, often make such holes to steal nectar. Although they usually have the longest tongues they are lazy and bite holes for east access. Ants and bees use the same holes.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 16, 2010, 10:14:20 AM
Looks like all insects they want without any problems to get a delicious nectar! I only saw ants :)

Hoy, I just let Corydalis selfsow in the garden, although the seeds of interesting plants sow individually in containers.
Corydalis solida_part_2_6 - grew up in a garden plant from open pollination Corydalis.

Corydalis yellow1 - maybe it Corydalis nobilis, is a rhizome Corydalis growing in Siberia, Altai, and in some areas of China.

Earlier I collected only seeds, but last years because of a fire the first place with Corydalis has strongly suffered. Half presented at the photos of plants died.Through other locations planned in the coming years to pave a new road and the plants will not survive. Therefore I collect tubers of interesting forms.

I think what easier to exchange seeds though can there will be a possibility transfer tubers.

Yesterday it was not possible to send last photos. Here they.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 16, 2010, 10:16:28 AM
Last photos

Corydalis solida_part_3_24 - From the population which plants have very high factor of reproduction - in clamp 5-9 tubers.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 16, 2010, 05:10:27 PM
Corydalis yellow1 - maybe it Corydalis nobilis, is a rhizome Corydalis growing in Siberia, Altai, and in some areas of China.
Natalia, I thought of C. nobilis, but it is very different from other C. nobilis I have had. It also grow in another way.

Earlier I collected only seeds, but last years because of a fire the first place with Corydalis has strongly suffered. Half presented at the photos of plants died.Through other locations planned in the coming years to pave a new road and the plants will not survive. Therefore I collect tubers of interesting forms.
Sorry to hear about the fire, was this the devastating wildfire we heard about, it lasted several days?

I think what easier to exchange seeds though can there will be a possibility transfer tubers.
Whatever you like!

Yesterday it was not possible to send last photos. Here they.
I like these corydalis. They are sweet!

Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 16, 2010, 06:49:15 PM
Hoy, the forum is a renowned expert on Corydalis - Janis Rukshans. It is safer to just ask him for help in determining your Corydalis yellow1.

 No, it was a wildfire in the spring of 2008. In the spring when the snow has melted and the earth dried. In that place there were many fallen trees, branches and old grass... Burned about 5 hours, but Corydalis died ...

 Well, will decide by the summer.

 :)
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Carlo on December 16, 2010, 07:44:41 PM
Fantastic Natalia! The cultivated forms show quite a range of color so it was only natural that the wild forms show the possibilities....
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: gote on December 16, 2010, 10:49:48 PM
An impressive collection Natalie.
Some are very beautiful.
Especially ths light blues.
You are very lucky to have such variation in your forests.
I hope you know that Corydalis solida must be sown immediately.
Seed have very short shelf life.
Thank you for your effort
Göte

Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: gote on December 16, 2010, 10:52:36 PM
I agree Hoy. In my place it is bumble bees that make these holes.
The yellow one is not nobilis. It gives the impression of an annual but I have never seen it before.
Cheers
göte
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 17, 2010, 08:35:22 AM
Thank you!
 Our forests have great potential on the forms of plants. And my photos just confirm this.

 I know how to store seeds of Corydalis - moist substrate, for example, in vermiculite. :)

As it is interesting! Apertures are done by bumblebees.
In my garden I did not observe such apertures though many bumblebees there fly.They pollinate Corydalis, instead of drink nectar without having made the necessary work. :D
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: cohan on December 18, 2010, 06:02:36 AM

We have no ants  in our garden.... we have watched the bees make the apertures here to reach the nectar but I expect ants can be clever this way too!

no ants! i can only (barely) dream of such a situation!!!! they don't really bother the plants, but they eat our houses or anything made of wood....

natalia, all the colours are wonderful! another species i am lusting for, here there is only yellow C aurea...
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Gerdk on December 18, 2010, 09:19:06 AM
no ants! i can only (barely) dream of such a situation!!!! they don't really bother the plants, but they eat our houses or anything made of wood....

Cohan,
At first I had the opinion that you confused ants with termites - but after googling
I learned that there are wood destroying ants in colder climates also.
Always something new to learn!

Gerd
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 18, 2010, 11:15:28 AM
We have wood-destroying ants here but they only are problematic if the wood already has started to rot. It's a lot of other wood-destroying beetle larvae too and they are worse.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: maggiepie on December 18, 2010, 12:16:41 PM
Cohan, I can send you ants, LOTS of them.
I have what I think are carpenter ants, they are big black ants more than half an inch long.
The new ones arrive in spring, fly in, drop their wings and make straight for any potplant.
If you put the pots in a saucer with gravel and water to keep them out, they find a way to drop in from the top and dig their way down.
They eat the roots of my clematis babies.
Grrrrrr
These ants are weird, they don't seem to have a communal nest. Most I have seen is 3 in one pot.
They also love to live in and under the cedar mulch.
You are welcome to them, plus all the other ants I have.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 18, 2010, 01:31:07 PM
You can't remove all your ants, maggiepie, they do some beneficial work too!
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 18, 2010, 09:43:08 PM
they don't really bother the plants, but they eat our houses or anything made of wood....


Well that's OK so long as they leave the plants alone. ;D
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 18, 2010, 10:15:02 PM
they don't really bother the plants, but they eat our houses or anything made of wood....


Well that's OK so long as they leave the plants alone. ;D
I wish the slugs did likewise! That's one of the few reasons I  enjoy the cold weather: No slugs ;D
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: maggiepie on December 18, 2010, 10:22:28 PM

Well that's OK so long as they leave the plants alone. ;D
[/quote]

The ( what I think are ) carpenter ants I have that get into the plant pots eat the roots of the plants. >:(
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: cohan on December 19, 2010, 07:17:12 AM
Cohan, I can send you ants, LOTS of them.
I have what I think are carpenter ants, they are big black ants more than half an inch long.
The new ones arrive in spring, fly in, drop their wings and make straight for any potplant.
If you put the pots in a saucer with gravel and water to keep them out, they find a way to drop in from the top and dig their way down.
They eat the roots of my clematis babies.
Grrrrrr
These ants are weird, they don't seem to have a communal nest. Most I have seen is 3 in one pot.
They also love to live in and under the cedar mulch.
You are welcome to them, plus all the other ants I have.


oh no, let me be clear--we have bazillions of ants! i just haven't noticed them doing anything particular to plants--though i'd have a tough time if i wanted any bed or pot to be totally free of them....

lesley, i would just like to have all buildings of concrete.....  this isn't necessarily a regional problem, but it is for sure on this property which is surrounded by trees, and the ants think any wood (any soil, any anything) is their natural habitat  :(
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: cohan on December 19, 2010, 07:18:38 AM
they don't really bother the plants, but they eat our houses or anything made of wood....


Well that's OK so long as they leave the plants alone. ;D
I wish the slugs did likewise! That's one of the few reasons I  enjoy the cold weather: No slugs ;D

i have some slugs around, but also have not noticed any damage from them--perhaps due to the large numbers of native birds?...
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: maggiepie on December 19, 2010, 12:52:31 PM
Cohan, no hostas?
I have zillions of slugs, HUGE ones. Birds don't touch them.
Maybe a few chooks or ducks might, though.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 19, 2010, 01:18:07 PM
Cohan, no hostas?
I have zillions of slugs, HUGE ones. Birds don't touch them.
Maybe a few chooks or ducks might, though.
Me too. And I have enough birds too but they seem to prefere other food, as you say. The huge ones are the least problem, they are easy to spot. It's the small ones that bother me. Seemingly all slugs want my dearest, smallest, most expensive, rarest plants. Why don't they feed on dandelions?
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: maggiepie on December 19, 2010, 02:07:54 PM

Me too. And I have enough birds too but they seem to prefere other food, as you say. The huge ones are the least problem, they are easy to spot. It's the small ones that bother me. Seemingly all slugs want my dearest, smallest, most expensive, rarest plants. Why don't they feed on dandelions?
[/quote]

Hoy, ( Trond?), I have been very successful at decimating the slug population with a squirt bottle 1 part ammonia to 10 parts water.
You can squirt them and watch them dissolve, can also spray the hostas without fear of damage. Not sure about other plants though. Of course you only spray the plants before the sun gets on them.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 19, 2010, 02:38:50 PM
Yes, Trond, it's my given name (Hoy is my family name)
Thank you for the advise. I'll try in some of my beds but I am unable to cover all my copse!
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 19, 2010, 03:12:12 PM
Back to the Corydalis. I found with some help the name of one of the bumblebees thieving nectar:
(Pictures from Wikimedia)

Bombus wurfleini
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Bombus_wurfleini_tyvhumle.jpg/260px-Bombus_wurfleini_tyvhumle.jpg)
It has a short tongue but strong jaws.

The same has Bombus lucorum
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Bombus_lucorum.jpeg/260px-Bombus_lucorum.jpeg)

Pictures from Wikimedia
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 19, 2010, 06:47:46 PM
cohan, we have the house ants destroying wood, but them simply enough to destroy.
I start to think that problems with ants and slugs - are identical to gardeners of all countries! And my affairs not so are bad.
 And I so hoped that somewhere there live flower growers not having such difficulties...
Hope is not true. :(

Trond, you managed to photograph IT!

By the way, if you're talking about pests - tell me who can do such things with pods Corydalis?
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 19, 2010, 07:17:31 PM
cohan, we have the house ants destroying wood, but them simply enough to destroy.
I start to think that problems with ants and slugs - are identical to gardeners of all countries! And my affairs not so are bad.
 And I so hoped that somewhere there live flower growers not having such difficulties...
Hope is not true. :(

Trond, you managed to photograph IT!
Sorry to disappoint you! The pictures are from Wikimedia:
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Bombus_wurfleini_tyvhumle.jpg
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liten_jordhumle


By the way, if you're talking about pests - tell me who can do such things with pods Corydalis?
Do you mean something eat the seeds? Or suck sap from the immature pods?
That I don't know!
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: cohan on December 19, 2010, 07:35:52 PM

Me too. And I have enough birds too but they seem to prefere other food, as you say. The huge ones are the least problem, they are easy to spot. It's the small ones that bother me. Seemingly all slugs want my dearest, smallest, most expensive, rarest plants. Why don't they feed on dandelions?


Hoy, ( Trond?), I have been very successful at decimating the slug population with a squirt bottle 1 part ammonia to 10 parts water.
You can squirt them and watch them dissolve, can also spray the hostas without fear of damage. Not sure about other plants though. Of course you only spray the plants before the sun gets on them.

no, no hostas here so far.. maybe i just don't have plants the slugs want? though i wouldn't say i have zillions, i have seen plenty around outdoor cat dishes! and we have violas and lettuces etc that i thought would be favourite food for slugs--they may have an occasional nibble, but nothing serious...
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 20, 2010, 07:45:36 AM
Trond, yes, I wished to ask - somebody faced such damage of pods? I wish to know, who such does?
Seeds partially lie on the earth, partially hang, seed boxes (pods?) are destroyed...
 Whether birds, whether insects - I can not understand. ???
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 20, 2010, 08:08:04 AM
Trond, yes, I wished to ask - somebody faced such damage of pods? I wish to know, who such does?
Seeds partially lie on the earth, partially hang, seed boxes (pods?) are destroyed...
 Whether birds, whether insects - I can not understand. ???

It is possibly ants. They raid the seedpods to get hold of the seeds which have elaiosomes. The ants feed their larvae with the elaiosomes. The seeds are unhurt and possibly thrown out of the ant's nest afterwards. This phenomena is called myrmecochory.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 20, 2010, 08:58:43 AM
Maybe ...

I thought of ants, but there are doubts. Some cuts on pods very long. Ants can such make? Or birds also could spoil pods?
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 20, 2010, 01:29:52 PM
I think some ants can make very long cuts in leaves so why not in pods?
But other animals including birds are possible.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 20, 2010, 03:29:02 PM
Thank you!
 I have a small garden ants, but it may be ...
 I will continue to monitor. :)
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 20, 2010, 04:46:10 PM
Don't you have this creature in or near your garden?


(http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B8de_skogsmaur)
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 20, 2010, 05:05:21 PM
No, such at us only in forest. I considered, what exactly they do apertures in flowers Corydalis.

In a garden ants much less, I assume that it can be: Lasius niger, Lasius fuliginosus and Lasius flavus.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 21, 2010, 01:49:27 PM
It is a little about destiny of the selected forms and seeds.

On a photo group Corydalis solida in a garden of my girlfriend. Some years ago I have given to it some small tubers. This posterity of one of them.
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 21, 2010, 02:15:44 PM
This is very fine, Natalia. I have one white and it is not that exiting colour..
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Natalia on December 21, 2010, 03:48:12 PM
Trond,very iinteresting - purely white in dissolution and greenish in buds. I have found the similar form in last year. But completely colouring will seem next years. :)

 On my photo colouring not white, a tube lilac, and only lips white. Though in the first flowering this form had white flowers easy blueness.

Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on December 21, 2010, 06:07:58 PM
On my photo colouring not white, a tube lilac, and only lips white. Though in the first flowering this form had white flowers easy blueness.
Yes, Natalia, they are very pretty!
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Janis Ruksans on January 10, 2011, 08:30:59 AM
Few Corydalis  solida seedlings, still unnamed, from last spring pictures.
Janis
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Janis Ruksans on January 10, 2011, 08:34:55 AM
Few more of unnamed Corydalis solida  seedlings.
Janis
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Lesley Cox on January 10, 2011, 08:50:33 AM
These are really beautiful Janis. I especially like the deep red in the first group. :)
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Janis Ruksans on January 10, 2011, 10:19:04 AM
Thanks Lesley!
Few more - named last season. All pure solidas but 'Hocus Pocus' - hybrid with paczoskii from Crimea.
Janis

Corydalis solida Cherry Orchard -03.JPG
Corydalis solida China Pink -01.JPG
Corydalis solida Crispy Love -03.JPG
Corydalis solida Forest Elf -01.jpg
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Janis Ruksans on January 10, 2011, 10:20:27 AM
Last entry was forced to split in two.
Janis

Corydalis solida Hocus Pocus -06.JPG
Corydalis solida Hocus Pocus -07.JPG
Corydalis solida Royal Cherry -01.JPG
Corydalis solida Royal Cherry -03.JPG
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Janis Ruksans on January 10, 2011, 10:26:49 AM
I think some ants can make very long cuts in leaves so why not in pods?
But other animals including birds are possible.
I didn't observe black small ants cutting Corydalis seedpods, but they cuts unripe Crocus seedpods seriously reducing crop. On Corydalis they bring away seeds on far distances. I saw that on Corydalis nobilis and C. cava complex, planted near paved road - an army of ants brings away all Corydalis seeds. So now I'm applying anti-ant chemicals (Detia) everywhere in my nursery.
Janis
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Brian Ellis on January 10, 2011, 03:43:00 PM
Some beautiful variations there Janis.  What a treat Corydalis give us  :)
Title: Re: Colour forms Corydalis solida
Post by: Hoy on January 10, 2011, 03:46:22 PM
I think some ants can make very long cuts in leaves so why not in pods?
But other animals including birds are possible.
I didn't observe black small ants cutting Corydalis seedpods, but they cuts unripe Crocus seedpods seriously reducing crop. On Corydalis they bring away seeds on far distances. I saw that on Corydalis nobilis and C. cava complex, planted near paved road - an army of ants brings away all Corydalis seeds. So now I'm applying anti-ant chemicals (Detia) everywhere in my nursery.
Janis
Well, I let the ants take away the seeds! They do not eat the seeds but the elaiosomes that are attached and then discard the seeds. Sometimes the seeds also produce pheromones for a short while that the ants like and the seeds are of no interest when they dry up. Seems that the seeds like to grow where the ants discard them.

But Janis, I have to collect a very long time to get your range of nobilis cvs complete! They are all awesome!
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