Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Great Moravian on December 13, 2010, 04:25:42 PM

Title: False Scorzonera suberosa var. cariensis
Post by: Great Moravian on December 13, 2010, 04:25:42 PM

A biennial Tragopogon species is cultivated as Scorzonera suberosa subsp. cariensis, web images are
http://www.xs4all.nl/~emmys/WEB-tuin/WEBFOTOS/SCORZONERA%20suberosa%20ssp.%20cariensis.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8St-ONY2y-4/Rn1TUtHY3FI/AAAAAAAAAyc/v7P5SvGI6Jg/s1600/Scorzonera%2Bsuberosa%2Bssp.cariensis%2B05.JPG


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8St-ONY2y-4/Rn1TatHY3GI/AAAAAAAAAyk/0nYCzzDHsZs/s1600/Scorzonera%2Bsuberosa%2Bssp.jpg


The latter is a perennial of course. The genus is clear because of the overlong beaks of achenes.
It resembles a branched low issue of Tragopogon porrifolius. Precise identification asked.

Title: Re: False Scorzonera suberosa var. cariensis
Post by: Great Moravian on December 14, 2010, 12:27:38 PM

In contrast, achenes of Scorzonera suberosa possess extremely short beaks as depicted at
http://www.vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/ast/sco/sub/index.htm

Title: Re: False Scorzonera suberosa var. cariensis
Post by: Great Moravian on December 14, 2010, 12:53:52 PM

It might be the plant at
http://www.koksal.biz/gallery/v/yaban/asteraceae/DSC03076+Tragopogon+coloratus.JPG.html
which is probably not Tragopogon coloratus whose original description follows
   4g4 T. coloratus mihi T. glaber, anthodio 5partito flosculos (rubros) longe
   superante, pedunculis superne incrassatis, foliis lanceolato-linearibus
   planis strictis caule longioribus, pappo colorato (violaceo).
In our plant anthodium is not long exceeding florets as in the plant at
http://es.treknature.com/gallery/photo180596.htm

Title: Re: False Scorzonera suberosa var. cariensis
Post by: Stephenb on December 14, 2010, 01:56:11 PM

I've also wondered about the identity of this - I've had it for some years now. Are all Scorzonera species perennials? I think my plant came from Emmy in the Netherlands (your first link)! I can't help with the identity, but here's some pictures of mine:

Title: Re: False Scorzonera suberosa var. cariensis
Post by: Great Moravian on December 14, 2010, 02:43:37 PM

Stephen,
Yes, it is the plant I speak about. It cannot be a Scorzonera simply because of the long
beaks of achenes. Morphologically, it is a typical Tragopogon. But which.
http://www.vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/ast/tra/co/index.htm
claims the phyllaries can be 5-8 and usually longer than florets
in Tragopogon coloratus. The herbarium specimens attached agree.
Therefore I suggest the above identification and ask who is contra.
Leaves are positioned vertically in Tragopogon porrifolius.
But marginifolius and ruber are not excluded.