Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Travel / Places to Visit => Topic started by: Thomas Huber on November 02, 2010, 01:49:14 PM
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Hello folks.
This year the Hubi's did their family holiday in autumn and Southern Peloponnese was the location we choose for relaxing, beaching, hiking and hunting.
The weather there was really great, sunshine and around 30°C - until we arrived :-\
In the first days we had a lot of rain but the temperatures were still OK and even bathing in the mediterranean sea was possible, but unfortunately the crocus didn't start their growth so far :'( So we were happy with these:
26 - Celine and a nice clump of dark Cyclamen graecum
27,28,29 - natural drifts of Cyclamen graecum
24,25 - Scilla autumnalis
31 - a rainbow in the Taygetos mountains
30 - Colchicum probably macrophyllum growing on 900m in the Southern Taygetos mountains.
46 - a very unpleasant find in Gythion, where they have a big rubbish problem since many years, but we were told
the solution is not far away - finally :-\
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04 - A good, dark clump of Colchicum peloponnesiacum growing in 200m on the Northern Mani
06 - Allium callimischon - didn't know about autumn flowering Alliums so far :o
07 - Urginea maritima
02 - Each morning we went collecting mussels on the beach in front of our hotel
41 - Shipwreck of the 'Dimitrios' near Gythion, must be there for more than 20 years now
48,57,74 - The famous ruins of Mystras
59 - Campanula versicolor (thanks DaveM for ID) growing in a very small crevice in Mystras
84 - a hike in the backcountry of Mystras was cancelled by another rainfall >:(
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Still no crocus found after 3 days, but nevertheless we were all (!) happy with the landscape, the people and the sea.
32 - despite the wet weather we saw this forest fire on the Mani from our beach for 3 days
33,40 - some Greek originals :D
13 - weather still dull, and my last hope for Crocus was Mount Parnon....
15,16,17 - and here they are :D ;D :o my first Greek crocus in the wild: Crocus hadriaticus
21 - my first thought was this is Crocus boryi, but it was too small and the corm said 'this is clearly LAEVIGATUS' - very early!!
23 - Colchicum bivonae
26 - Sternbergia sicula
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hi hubi,
nice pics, but the weather was not so amused ;) i hope you found a lot of crocus. my friends are actualy in peleponnes ....bring me a few crocus ;D
cheers
chris
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Very nice Thomas ! Always good to see those treasures in the wild! Please go on...
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Great pics and a lot of interesting plants, especially the Cyclamen!
Thanks Thomas!
Gerd
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Thanks Chris, Kris and Gerd.
My search for Crocus went on and we've been very successful this day:
30 - a good photo to show how variable Crocus hadriaticus is in this area
32-35 - in the higher areas Cyclamen graecum was replaced by C. hederifolium, but never in that great quantity that we've seen of graecum in the lower parts.
No leaves were visible and so I coudn't judge if they are var. confusum
39-43 - and some more C. hadriaticus variants. Seeing these variable flowers makes me forget the classification from Brian Mathew's Crocus update 2001, where he names the yellow throated plants ssp hadriaticus, the blue ones without yellow throat ssp parnonicus and the white ones without yellow throat ssp parnassicus.
All these forms were mixed together where I found them and should be regarded as just one very variable ssp hadriaticus.
47 - It took some time before this turtle (Testudo graeca - thanks Chris!) passed the street.... :D
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The last photos from Mt. Parnon:
52 - goats were a common sight apart from the main street
54 - one last hadriaticus, but one of the best - should be called var, mathewii ;D
57 - a lonely Cyclamen graecum above 1000m, also showing the significant reduce of flowers compared with the lowland forms
05 - the next day took us to the caves of Pyrgos Dirou, 1200m gliding with a boat through this wonderful scenery.. :o
37,38 - on the way back to Mavrouvoni I noticed some white/blue spots at the roadside and stopped. We found these wonderful bicoloured Crocus niveus and wondered what on Earth has animated them to flower in this low area, just 200m above sea level, while all the other Crocus are only flowering above 800 m ???
49 - not far away we found another dark coloured Cyclamen graecum
02 - Next day on the way to the higher Taygetos mountains we often saw areas which were obviously burned down in the last years. The black coated tree skeletons and the fresh plants make a good sight together with the Cyclamen graecum.
03,04 - and again :P Cyclamen graecum - growing everywhere beneath the streets and in the fields...
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Thanks Chris, Kris and Gerd.
My search for Crocus went on and we've been very successful this day:
30 - a good photo to show how variable Crocus hadriaticus is in this area
32-35 - in the higher areas Cyclamen graecum was replaced by C. hederifolium, but never in that great quantity
that we've seen of graecum in the lower parts. No leaves were visible and so I coudn't judge if they are var. confusum
39-43 - and some more C. hadriaticus variants. Seeing these variable flowers makes me forget the classification from
Brian Mathew's Crocus update 2001, where he names the yellow throated plants ssp hadriaticus, the blue ones
without yellow throat ssp parnonicus and the white ones without yellow throat ssp parnassicus.
All these forms were mixed together where I found them and should be regarded as just one very variable ssp hadriaticus.
47 - It took some time before this turtle passed the street.... :D
A very interesting report Thomas. However, I think you have mis-remembered Brian Mathew. In his 2001 paper he draws much the same conclusion as you; he rejects infraspecific taxa & regards C. hadriaticus as one variable taxon.
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:-X Of course you're right, Gerry. Have just read it again and now have to change my statement to:
"I completely agree with Brian Mathew in his Crocus update from 2001" 8)
Further North in the higher Taygetos mountains I found only two locations with bulbs - somewhat disappointing from botanical view, but the views of the landscape were magnificent and always worth the effort.
06-08 - Crocus boryi, the first bulbous location, but this one was very good.
09 - again we found large areas where forest fires have destroyed the whole landscape. This time it seems that it was only some weeks/months ago as no new growth of vegetation could be seen.
10-16 - Galanthus reginae-olgae, the second bulbous location, was in full flower beside a small stream. I reminded, that this plant prefers growing as single plant, but here I found a lot of vegetatively increased clumps.
Not much variation in the green markings, but in size they were from 10cm up to even more than 30cm! The whole habitat was not more than 10-12m in diameter but the quantity must have been more than 1000 plants :o Sorry, I didn't count them ;D
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Thomas,
thank you for your interesting holiday trip report.
I make it short: I like the image of the bicolored C. niveus and the C. hadriaticus 'var. mathewii'. 8) :D
Did you find any variation on C. boryi?
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My pleasure Armin. Thanks for your short comments ;D
Yes, I found some boryi with stripes, but unfortunately didn't make a photo due to bad light level.
But most of them were pure white as we know them from cultivation.
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Thomas - thanks for these lovely pics; pleased that you eventually found some crocus flowering.
A couple of suggestions for the incomplete names.
the campanula is C. versicolor
The colchicum from Taygetos with the purple anthers is C. variegatum
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Thomas - thanks for these lovely pics; pleased that you eventually found some crocus flowering.
A couple of suggestions for the incomplete names.
the campanula is C. versicolor
The colchicum from Taygetos with the purple anthers is C. variegatum
Again very interesting pictures Thomas. Dave ,I tought that Colchicum variegatum is not growing in the Peleponnesus?
Could it be Colchicum sfikasianum? This is an endemic of this place.
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30 - a good photo to show how variable Crocus hadriaticus is in this area
39-43 - and some more C. hadriaticus variants. Seeing these variable flowers makes me forget the classification from
Brian Mathew's Crocus update 2001, where he names the yellow throated plants ssp hadriaticus, the blue ones
without yellow throat ssp parnonicus and the white ones without yellow throat ssp parnassicus.
All these forms were mixed together where I found them and should be regarded as just one very variable species.
Glad you found them in the end! I was worried for you (re Crocus) as others were reporting late growth this year.
The reports of Crocus hadriaticus are very interesting. I have always wondered if these 'different' forms grew in mixed populations - I think your conclusions are correct!
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Hi Thomas, I think the colchicum clump is C. boissieri. I have found in growing in this area. Colchicum variegatum doesn't occur in the Peleponnese as far as I know and I have found C. sfikasianum in more lowland areas, especially down the Molai peninsula. Hope you enjoyed your trip. I will have to go one day when the bulbs are out in flower. I have only seen the high attitude spring flowerers. Wave after wave of crocus, scillas, corydalis and ornithogalums at the edge of the retreating snow. Cheers, Marcus
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Thanks Dave, Kris and Marcus for starting the Colchicum discussion. Meanwhile I took the time to have a look in my newly obtained AGS book 'Bulbs of Greece' (only received after returning from Greece :-[, many thanks to the friend who helped me obtaining it!) and found the following:
Colchicum variegatum doesn't grow in Peloponnese, only on the Aegean Island and Cyclades. The only other tesselated Colchicum flowering without leaves and dark anthers in the book is Colchicum macrophyllum - but this also isn't listed for
the Peloponnese - only Crete and Rhodes. From the photos I would say the plant from Taygetos (900m) IS C. macrophyllum, but it must be a so far unknown location. Kris it can't be C. sfikasianum, because this has yellow anthers.
Marcus, the dark clump from Areopolis is growing on 200 meters and the book says C. boissieri is growing from 700-1800 meters.
Apart from this boissieri has stoloniferous corms, which my plant doesn't have, AND my plant has small leaves visible at flowering time.
This would point for Colchicum peloponnesiacum, but this is only recorded from N + E Peloponnese (Argolis and Archaia).
Never mind, peloponnesiacum is the only autumn flowering Colchicum with leaves and yellow anthers so it seems that I again found a new location of this species.
I'm not a Colchicum specialist, all my notes above originate from the 'bulbs of Greece' by Grey-Wilson, so if anybody has new arguments regarding my Colchicum photos and thoughts, I would be grateful for your help.
Thanks DaveM for ID of the Campanula.
Tony G - one day you have to go there yourself and have a look at all these wonderful, different forms :D :o
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Thomas, I can imagine how pleasant to see all these nice plants in the samewhere! I seems that you had great trip :o
Thank you very much that you show us all these beautyes. And took our minds over the Peleponnes montains.
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Thanks Ibrahim, yes, it was a great trip. But I still envy you for the possibility
to visit the wonderful bulbous mountains in front of your housedoor allthrough the year.
Some more photos from my holiday - if you want ;)
42-45 - Allium ampelophrasum or commutatum or bourgeaui ssp. cycladicum(??) on Mavrovouni beach, only a few meters from our hotel and the sea. In seed but the new leaves were already starting to grow, probably started by the rainfalls in the last days.
Although I only posted plants so far you have to remind, that this was NOT a plant holiday but a family holiday.
Even when the sky was cloudy we've been in the sea every day, but of course the best photos on the beach are made with sunshine - the first 'whole-day-long' sunshine took us 1 week to wait, but you can imagine that we really enjoyed the warm sunshine on 'our' 4km beach, where we have been nearly alone at this time of the year:
50 - Celine very lonesome but happy
90+120 - Celine, Thalia, Chris and Paris in the 25°C warm Mediterranean Sea
02+04 - Another lovely small Colchicum near Monemvassia on 400m, I think this is C. sfikasianum. But I have to wait until the leaves are out to be sure that it isn't C. lingulatum, which also grows in this area.
Generally lingulatum is smaller in appearance than sfikasianum but has more leaves.
The soil in this area was still bonedry - looked like there hasn't been any rain so far. Colchicum and Cyclamen were the only bulbs we found apart from millions of Allium ampelophrasum on the Monemvassia Island.
06+07 - Chris and Celine making lunch between thousands of Cyclamen graecum. They flowered in the open ground, completely unprotected from any shaders and obviously they really like it.
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009 - The impressive and distinct rock island of Monemvassia
011 - After leaving Monemvassia we took the coast road northwards where Celine enjoyed the warm sea after teatime
015 - Urginea maritima in front of this beautiful scenery - looking a bit like the Italian Toscany
16-21 - Surprisingly we found Crocus niveus in this area North of Monemvassia on a northfacing slope between 300 and 800 meters - I had lost each hope to find any crocus this day due to the bonedry soil but again here they were. And again I discovered a surprising feature of the flowers. Croconuts - forget the picture of the 'standard' crocus niveus in your mind: Large white flowers with golden yellow centre. We found a population half and half white to blue with flowers only 10cm large and many of them had only a soft-yellow centre.
Some plants were even without any yellow in the middle. This time I have taken the Mathew bible before posting but Brian and also Christopher Grey-Wilson in 'bulb of Greece' only mention Crocus niveus as 'yellow-throated'.
By the way: On a later journey I found Crocus niveus between 700 and 1200m, while both, Mathew and CGW, describe it as only growing up to 750m.
022+23 - This is the only population of Crocus goulimyi we found during our holiday, although we thought to find it everywhere. But the longlasting drought seemed to expand their dormancy enormous this year :(
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Thomas, a very nice tranquil holiday all the beach belongs to you. I don't know but your that C. lingulatum looks a little difference from turkish C. lingulatum. Here my sample for this colchicum.
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Some more photos from my holiday - if you want ;)
42-45 - Allium ampelophrasum (??) on Mavrovouni beach, only a few meters from our hotel and the sea.
In seed but the new leaves were already starting to grow, probably started by the rainfalls in the last days.
Thomas, fantastic seeing plants in the wild, particularly the fall bulbs, finding new possible locales for Crocus & Colchicum species, and colonies showing greater diversity than normal... and doing all this while "on holiday" the family... imagine the advances you could make if on a botanic trip specifically :D
The Allium you showed could be A. ampeloprasum, but I rather suspect it might be the closely related A. commutatum (syn. Allium ampelosprasum var. commutatum), separated by very minor differences only discernible when the plants are in flower.
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Very nice to see everything in its natural habitat Thomas, of course I was particularly interested in the Galanthus but also that fantastic carpet of Cyclamen graecum. Amazing, thank you for sharing them with us 8)
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Hi Thomas
Ah Mavrovouni beach - I've stayed there many times and swam in that sea. One of my favourite spots but its a crazy place to get in and out of! Sorry I thought that clump of colchicum was in the Taygetos and not in the Mani. I have only found C. sfikasianum down further towards Porto Kagio, especially where the road cuts through from the south to the east of the cape. I have only found C. macrophyllum on Crete and on Rhodos and at present C. peleponnesiacum has only been recorded as you say around Diakofto. I have not seen this species but I believe it is of similar size to C. pusillum. Your plant looks much bigger. Colchicum psaridis has dark anthers and it is synatherous but it too has small flowers. C. cupanii has similar characteristics but its leaves are quite broad.
Did you go south of Monemvassia towards Agios Fokas?
Cheers, Marcus
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Thomas, a very nice tranquil holiday all the beach belongs to you. I don't know but your that C. lingulatum looks a little difference from turkish C. lingulatum. Here my sample for this colchicum.
Thanks for your comments, Ibrahim.
CGW describes C. lingulatum as 'pinkish/lilac, sometimes with the faintest tesselation'
and the photo in his book shows a plant that looks exactly like the one on my photo.
The Turkish form you show looks really different, but still nice.
Will update my comments in spring, when I see the leaves of my plant.
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Thomas, fantastic seeing plants in the wild, particularly the fall bulbs, finding new possible locales for Crocus & Colchicum species, and colonies showing greater diversity than normal... and doing all this while "on holiday" the family... imagine the advances you could make if on a botanic trip specifically :D
The Allium you showed could be A. ampeloprasum, but I rather suspect it might be the closely related A. commutatum (syn. Allium ampelosprasum var. commutatum), separated by very minor differences only discernible when the plants are in flower.
Mark, I had hope, that you would help me with the Allium ID, many thanks. Do you think it's neccesary to classify A. commutatum as a different species if you consider that there are only 'very minor differences' in the flower of both?
Of course you might be right about the advances of a specific botanical trip, but I greatly enjoy the mix between family and botanic in my holidays ;D
Brian, most of my heart belongs to the genus Crocus but still there is a big (and getting bigger!) part of galanthophilia in me and I had lots of fun exploring the large Galanthus population I found by coincidence.
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Mark, I had hope, that you would help me with the Allium ID, many thanks. Do you think it's neccesary to classify A. commutatum as a different species if you consider that there are only 'very minor differences' in the flower of both?
I defer to the authority, Brian Mathew, in his definitive monograph A Review of Allium section Allium, where A. commutatum is a good species, as it is in all other pertinent floras I've seen... it has a few detailed floral differences (albeit minor ones) that separate it from A. ampeloprasum, and yet another close ally, A. bourgeaui. Taxonomic separation of many alliums will get down to a few minor differences. Allium commutatum is a Mediterranean species found close to sea level (or up to 300 m) in habitats close to the sea and on islands. There is also Allium bourgeaui ssp. cycladicum which is found in E. Peloponnese inhabiting similar low elevation locales. The ID will remain a question until detailed inspection of plants in flower.
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Hi Thomas
Ah Mavrovouni beach - I've stayed there many times and swam in that sea. One of my favourite spots but its a crazy place to get in and out of! Sorry I thought that clump of colchicum was in the Taygetos and not in the Mani. I have only found C. sfikasianum down further towards Porto Kagio, especially where the road cuts through from the south to the east of the cape. I have only found C. macrophyllum on Crete and on Rhodos and at present C. peleponnesiacum has only been recorded as you say around Diakofto. I have not seen this species but I believe it is of similar size to C. pusillum. Your plant looks much bigger. Colchicum psaridis has dark anthers and it is synatherous but it too has small flowers. C. cupanii has similar characteristics but its leaves are quite broad.
Did you go south of Monemvassia towards Agios Fokas?
Cheers, Marcus
Hi Marcus.
I have both, Colchicum pusillum and psaridis, and as you say my plant is much bigger than those two, so I conclude that both are not represented by the plant on my photo. The only colchicum with such small leaves described by CGW is still peloponnesiacum even if in another area.
I planed a trip to Cabo Melea / Agios Nikolaios south of Monemvassia, but didn't do it - remember: 'family-holiday' ;D
Where have you stayed in Mavrouvoni? Perhaps we had the same hotel? Will post photos later.
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Lovely pics Thomas. Looks as though your two little ones are growing up fast.
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Yes, David, time goes by so fast :-[
No photos of the next two days. The first was another complete beach day, but during the night heavy thunderstorms started and didn't stop before the evening of the next day.
29 - but this evening we had the best sunset of our holiday
94 - later in the evening I caught a flash far in the distance from our balcony. You can see the wonderful Hotel Stavros Tou Notou only a few meters from the beach
010 - the next morning continued with the impressive sights on the beach of Mavrovouni with the best sunrise
023 - Mavrovouni beach is one of the prefered kindergardens for the sea turtle Caretta caretta. Each summer they come to lay their eggs in the sand of the public beach and enthusiastic Greeks people protect the stock in the way shown on this photo. Most of the babies are already hatched but a few still don't show sign of life - seems like the eggs have died in the sand :'( :(
033 - another view of our Hotel, built in Mani design
After the worst day of all some sunshine was forecasted and we decided to make a trip down South to Cabo Tenero and were greeted with lots of sunshine and the most beautiful landscape in the whole area - at least in my opinion.
46 - really for the last time - promised - Cyclamen graecum. May they rest in peace now ;D
47-49 - impressions from the Southern Mani peninsula
50 - view over Vathia gen North - isn't that 'to-die-for' 8)
53 - Scilla autumnalis growing directly behind the beach
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I defer to the authority, Brian Mathew, in his definitive monograph A Review of Allium section Allium, where A. commutatum is a good species, as it is in all other pertinent floras I've seen... it has a few detailed floral differences (albeit minor ones) that separate it from A. ampeloprasum, and yet another close ally, A. bourgeaui. Taxonomic separation of many alliums will get down to a few minor differences. Allium commutatum is a Mediterranean species found close to sea level (or up to 300 m) in habitats close to the sea and on islands. There is also Allium bourgeaui ssp. cycladicum which is found in E. Peloponnese inhabiting similar low elevation locales. The ID will remain a question until detailed inspection of plants in flower.
OK, we'll wait and see in summer when the flowers are out.
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hello all,
a few pics fom greece nov 2010....her the landscape between korinth and loutraki....
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_8406.jpg?t=1288954420)
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_8386.jpg?t=1288954485)
the sun goes down....in the background loutraki....
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_8426.jpg?t=1288954541)
id-please....asphodeline ?
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_7440.jpg?t=1288954578)
id-please
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_7419.jpg?t=1288954614)
id-please
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_7413.jpg?t=1288954639)
id-please...eryngium ?
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_7342.jpg?t=1288954692)
id-please sideritis ?
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_7355.jpg?t=1288954722)
whats this ?
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_7364.jpg?t=1288954776)
crocus ?
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_7372.jpg?t=1288954843)
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_7376.jpg?t=1288954819)
thanks
cheers
chris
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Hi Chris - wonderful photos from the Northern Peloponnese.
The Crocus looks like cancellatus ssp mazziaricus - one of two crocus that I have missed on my own journey. Do you have more photos of it?
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Hi Chris,
Whats this? I think it is a seed head of Scorpiurus ssp.. Names are 'Prickly Caterpillar' 'Skorpionsschwanz oder Raupenblume'.
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Better late than never, I only discovered your "Odyssee" today Thomas !
What a great hooliday you and your family seem to have had !
Thanks for showing us all these wonders of nature !! :D :D
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My pleasure Luc. :D
Some more photos from our trip down the Mani Peninsula:
54 - cant remember the name of this village, but I think it's worth showing
56 - oh no - not again... :-X I wish all 'weeds' would look so beautiful ;D
57-62 - another population of Crocus niveus, not as variable as the one North of Monemvassia, but still worth showing
63-65 - landscapes on the Eastern coast of the Mani
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The end of the day was spent in our favourite taverna in Gythion:
66 - please note the lamps in the background - 67 ;D
68 - the Greek market crises was felt even here - no money for a good plate. But who needs a plate ;D
19-23 - the last day on Mavrovouni beach greeted us with lots of sunshine and warm water. The kids enjoyed the last hours a lot :D
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While the rest of the Hubi's spent the last day on the beach I took the car after lunch and made a trip back to Mount Parnon, where I wanted to check if the rain of the last days has forced the crocus to grow.
62 - on the way up the coast I had this beautiful sight
67 - as always in the mountains goats were seen beside and on the road
Arriving in the mountains confirmed my guess: In only one week the crocus have started to grow everywhere beneath the street and in the backcountry:
69 - Crocus laevigatus, only white plants, partly with stripes, grow there. Again I wondered about them being so early compared to the ones I have in my garden - these are always the last in the season, rarely flowering before November.
72+73 - Crocus hadriaticus in all colours, with and without yellow throat covered complete slopes - one week earlier, there was NOTHING!
82+86 - a white and a blue form of Crocus niveus - these are two of many plants that I found between 700 and 1200m. Much higher than written in the books.
88 - and if I say 'they grew EVERYWHERE' I mean 'everywhere' ;D
Coming back home to the hotel I found Celine crying because she didn't want to go home :'(
But we decided to return even so.
THE END
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thomas, armin, thanks a lot.....
more photos, i must ask my friend....
cheers
chris
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Hi Thomas
I have only just caught up with the rest of your Greek Odessey. So wonderful to revisit one of my favourite places on earth. Though this year she wasn't so kind to me and my partner, Suzie. We were robbed near Kardamili, all our money and plastic and Suzie's passport stolen. On the bright side we were shown GREAT kindness by the people in the village. We were lent money and accomodation and shown were we could get our hire car repaired. The Greeks are so laid back. It took 3 extra days to get the right side window replaced because the supplier guy didn't take down the correct product serial number and then he didn't hurry to put the window on the Friday bus from Athens! Anyway enough of me.
Which villages did you travel through to Mt Parnon? I found Crocus niveus growing all along the ditches on side of the road north of Kosmos. The pine forest restricts their territory only to this strip. Its like someone has thrown seeds from out of their car window. As an aside, I don't know why the Cyclamen Society bothered to do a detailed survey of this area for C. rhodium ssp peleponnesiacum f. vividum - it grows EVERYWHERE! 8)
Did you go anywhere near Mt Kouchera? It would be on the southern branch of the turn from Sikea. That road takes you eventually to Lambokambos. John Fielding in his guide to Flower walks on Mainland Greece that this the place to see all the Peleponnesian crocus, except maybe C. biflorus ssp melantherus, in the one place!
Cheers, Marcus
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My pleasure Luc. :D
Some more photos from our trip down the Mani Peninsula:
54 - cant remember the name of this village, but I think it's worth showing
56 - oh no - not again... :-X I wish all 'weeds' would look so beautiful ;D
57-62 - another population of Crocus niveus, not as variable as the one North of Monemvassia, but still worth showing
63-65 - landscapes on the Eastern coast of the Mani
Thomas, many thanks for all of your photos, it really makes me feel that I want to be there again!
I think the village in your photo might be Vathia?
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Hi Thomas
I have only just caught up with the rest of your Greek Odessey. So wonderful to revisit one of my favourite places on earth. Though this year she wasn't so kind to me and my partner, Suzie. We were robbed near Kardamili, all our money and plastic and Suzie's passport stolen. On the bright side we were shown GREAT kindness by the people in the village. We were lent money and accomodation and shown were we could get our hire car repaired. The Greeks are so laid back. It took 3 extra days to get the right side window replaced because the supplier guy didn't take down the correct product serial number and then he didn't hurry to put the window on the Friday bus from Athens! Anyway enough of me.
Which villages did you travel through to Mt Parnon? I found Crocus niveus growing all along the ditches on side of the road north of Kosmos. The pine forest restricts their territory only to this strip. Its like someone has thrown seeds from out of their car window. As an aside, I don't know why the Cyclamen Society bothered to do a detailed survey of this area for C. rhodium ssp peleponnesiacum f. vividum - it grows EVERYWHERE! 8)
Did you go anywhere near Mt Kouchera? It would be on the southern branch of the turn from Sikea. That road takes you eventually to Lambokambos. John Fielding in his guide to Flower walks on Mainland Greece that this the place to see all the Peleponnesian crocus, except maybe C. biflorus ssp melantherus, in the one place!
Cheers, Marcus
Marcus
The last cyclamen society survey of viviidum was in 1993, 17 years ago. Please do not knock the only society that is doing any research into plants in the wild whatsoever, we are doing our best! Unlike most societies that do nothing.
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Thomas a lovely series which I have just enjoyed on my return from Turkey. They brought back good memories
It took me four attempts before I hit the season right in the Peloponnese but when I did it was breath taking.
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hi,
another short picture serie from korinth/greece....
cyclamen greacum....
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_7378.jpg?t=1289071446)
allien ;)
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_7388.jpg?t=1289071492)
pinus halepensis
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_8423.jpg?t=1289071525)
quercus coccifera
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_8536.jpg?t=1289071561)
the same plant, i´ve got seed from, extremly small leaves....
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/DSC_8551.jpg?t=1289071613)
pinus any idea pinaster ????
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/K1024_Hellas216.jpg?t=1289071733)
pine cone....
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/garten%201/K1024_Hellas215.jpg?t=1289071778)
thanks
cheers
chris
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Marcus
The last cyclamen society survey of viviidum was in 1993, 17 years ago. Please do not knock the only society that is doing any research into plants in the wild whatsoever, we are doing our best! Unlike most societies that do nothing.
I agree completely Pat. When I was active in the Frit Group I attempted, using the Cyclamen Society as an example, to persuade the Committee to organise some field research on European frits. I was unsuccessful.
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Hi guys
Sorry I mean't no offence - it was a lame joke.
Cheers, Marcus
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Hi again,
Yes you are right about this work being important. Its interesting that probably most of the field work on species distribution and occurrence has been done by individuals, more often than not, amateurs. I take the point that systematic field work these days is rarely undertaken and does not get institutional support. Yet it is extremely important. Its scary to see how close "development" has come to one of the last sites for Fritillaria obliqua at Schinias and how vulnerable Fritillaria conica is at Pylos. When I first saw them back in 1997 there were thousands growing locally around the edges of maquis scrub on a small farmlet. When I went back 5 years later the whole area had been bulldozed, replanted in olive orchards and the undergrowth sprayed with herbicide. I found one small patch that had survived on a stony mound. I did after much hard slog find another extensive colony along the road to Methoni. 2 years later I found this to be eaten out by goats but on returning this year they had reappeared. Its a game of roulette for these plants but if the dice falls too many times the wrong way it could be the end for them.
This year I spent 3 days on Mt Pelineo on Chios and everywhere I went there was not one habitat that had been left "ungoated". I know there was some outcry a couple of years earlier about the flocks being taken onto the mountains too early and devastating the orchid populations (now a tourist money spinner for some of the locals). There are supposed to be local government regulations for this activity but some of the people I spoke to told me the shepherds were prepared to cop the fines. Its a complex problem and cultural practices have to be respected. Systematic field work is the bedrock on which change will take place.
Cheers, Marcus
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Thomas, many thanks for all of your photos, it really makes me feel that I want to be there again!
I think the village in your photo might be Vathia?
Morning Melvyn.
Although it looks a bit like Vathia it isn't. The photo was made some km South. It could be Paliros at the most Southern end of the Mani.
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Thomas a lovely series which I have just enjoyed on my return from Turkey. They brought back good memories
It took me four attempts before I hit the season right in the Peloponnese but when I did it was breath taking.
Welcome back Tony - please show some of your photos from Turkey here !!
Four attempts? So I really can be happy that I've been there just when the season started :D
Marcus, I'm sorry to hear about you and Suzie being robbed - we didn't have nor hear anything like that when we've been there. We always felt safe in Greece and surely we will return in the next years.
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Hi Thomas,
Being robbed is just one of those things. I have been to Greece many times over the last 15 years and I have never had any problems, save the occasional shonky car hire businessman. I always feel safe there but that said Athens now feels decided less free and easy. My only concern in Greece are the "exoset missile" car drivers. Much has been written about Greek driving so I won't bore everyone to death on the subject. Except to say that coming from a relatively orderly country where rules are rules and they are enforced its a bit of a shock to one's sensibilities the first time around.
Did you see any jackals in the southern Peleponnese? There used to be a lot but now they are rapidly disappearing. I saw two dead ones, obviously hit by cars, on the road down towards Neapoli.
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Thomas,
Wonderful photos!! :o All those Crocus and Cyclamen in the wild. Wow! Thanks for showing us.
Marcus,
Not good to hear you were robbed. At least you had such great support from the locals.
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Hi Thomas, because I`m always searching for white flowers I found your fantastic Greece pics only this morning. What a floral world of crocus, cyclamen, hubinaten and a few galanthus. It looks like a very successful holiday. Thank you for the albums of wild ground sceneries.
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Hagen, I assume your search for the white flowers has lead you to this thread.
Sorry Marcus - we've seen not a single jackal in the area where we've been, and we've not visited the Neapoli area where you found the two dead ones.
Driving with the car in Greece is a different matter than in Germany and Australia (I think), but it's similar to Southern Italy, so I had no real problems there. If you see a green signal light that doesn't mean that you can cross the street without danger, there will always be a Greek from the red light thinking he has to be the first. First rule in Greece is: Use the signal horn, second: Use the signal-horn, third: signal horn......
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Hi Thomas
I think the first rule for driving in Greece is there are no rules! :o Well not the rules according to their driving code. Everybody seems to understand a well established set of rules but these are not written down anywhere. The two "rules" that I have most problems with are: Oncoming driver, flashes lights at me to get out of the way to give them room as he/she overtakes the car in front of them. Second one: Overtaking driver pips horn for me to move onto the shoulder of the road to give them room despite the fact that a car is parked on the shoulder just up ahead .... !
I remember driving on the big freeway to Corinth a few years ago and the only cars doing the speed limit were driving in the shoulder/parking lane.
I think the jackal species is the Golden Jackal apparently the area around Neapoli is one of its last "strongholds". It also exist on the island of Samos but I have never seen anything bigger than a grouse/partridge? there. In fact I have seen very few large mammals anywhere in Greece. The most amazing things I have seen was a group of very large antlered red deer on Mt Parnitha near the casino just 15km out of Athens and a small group of Griffin Vultures feeding on a lamb carcase on the road beyond the Kallergi Refuge in the White Mountains, Crete. I have seen pictures in the roadhouse at the top of the Lagada Pass in the Taygetos of wild boar that are so massive they barely "fit' in the back of the hunters 4wd ute. It surprising that such huge animals are not more easily seen in the forest.
Cheers, Marcus
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Hmmm, now as you mention it: I cant remember that we have seen any large mammals - the largest were cats and dogs. The biggest worries were Celines, when I told her that Scorpions and snakes occour in Greece. She didn't want to escort us due to these animals but we could convince her - and finally she was happy, because we didn't see any of these.
You don't need any rules in Greece, just flow with the traffic and everything is fine ;D
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Thomas
I have not had problems driving in Greece,as you say flow with the traffic,try Turkey for not having rules.
I remember when I was in Gythion in 2006 they had a rubbish problem which I was told would soon be solved.None of this detracts from wonderful trips with fabulous countryside and flowers (at the right time).
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Hi Thomas and Tony,
I don't recall much flow ;D but I agree with the observation about Turkey. Within the first few minutes of hiring a car in Antalya I was run into. They say the further east one goes the less the rules apply. Gythion rubbish hasn't moved since you were there Tony.
Cheers, Marcus
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Mystras in Spring.
Thats my husband (well really the wildflowers)
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Reminds me of our lovely time in the spring.
Alvin at Mystras (well a pic of the wildflowers)
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I was in Greece, main emphasis Peloponnese, with a friend Herbert and my Mrs Christine from 10-25-2010 to 11-4-2010.
Day 1. ) flight from Vienna to Athens. With hired car in the direction of the Delphi. Overnight stay into motel 10 km from Delphi.
Day 2. ) visit to Delphi and excursions to the adjacent area. Drive bridge to Olympia about the Rio Adirro. Overnight stay.
Delphi
Colchicum cupanii
Biarum tenuifolium
Sternbergia sicula
Daphne jasminea
Crocus hadriaticus
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Thanks for sharing your holidays with those of us who stay at home!! 8)
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Tag 3.) Fahrt von Olympia – Lagadia - Tripoli – Sparti. Am Morgen starker Regen, später wieder etwas Sonne. Wir finden viele Cyclamen, Crocus und Sternbergien.
Drive from Olympia - Lagadia - Tripoli - Sparti. In the morning, heavy rain, some sun later. We find many Cyclamen, Crocus and Sternbergia.
Sternbergia sicula
Crocus bifl. ssp.melantherus
Crocus hadriaticus
Crocus boryi & Crocus hadriaticus
Crocus boryi
Cyclame hederifolium
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Day 4. ) Sparti, Monemvasia, Kalives - Sparti. The sunrise at the Taigetos announces rain. We make way to Monemvasia and concentrate on C.gouliyi ssp.leucanthus particularly.
In Greece is holiday and all people celebrate.
Taigetos
Colchicum cupanii
Crocus goulimyi
Monemvasia
Holiday
Coffeetime
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Day 4. ) at Kalives, Crocus goulimyi ssp. leucanthus location
1 -3 Crocus goulimyi ssp.leucanthus
Arbutus unedo
Erica manipuliflora
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Karl,
thank you for showing us your trip impressions.
I'm very pleased about the various crocus sights and the sternbergias. 8) 8) 8)
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Day 5. the weather is fine and we drive on the Taigetos, then far over the Lagada pass to Kalamata and to Kardamili ).
Taigetos
Galanthus reginae-olgae
Crocus boryi
Crocus hadriaticus
Crocus niveus
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Hi Karl. Many thanks for your photos. Seems like you had a lot of luck with choosing the right time for bulb hunting. Please show some more photos if you have.
Are you sure your last photo is Crocus niveus?
The stigma points more to C. hadriaticus.
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Thank you Thomas embellish that you comment on this photo, was it not sure for me either.
Unfortunately, I can not send any additional photos, bring none more out, always get Error.
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Karl, wir probleme mit die netplatz haben.... wir entschuldigen uns für die aufgetretenen Unannhmlichkeiten.
Wir hoffen das es etwas verbessern will!
Maggi
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Maggi, thank you for the information, it will have a try again later.
Karl
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Far over the Lagadapass to Kalamata and Kardamili. Gigantic forest fires have destroyed this beautiful landscape.
Lagadapass
Narcissus serotinus
Spiranthes spiralis
Arisarum vulgare
Kardamili
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We drive down at the west coast of the Mani about Areolpoli up to the south top, the Cap Tenaro, day 6.
Mani
Mani
Crocus niveus
Crocus goulimyi
Crocus boryi
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Lunch in Gerolimenas.
Our friend goes to take a bath.
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Our friend goes to take a bath.
I hope he is waving, not drowning..... :-X
Bist du sicher, er ist nicht ertrinken? Seiner Arme sind sehr hoch..... :o ::)
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In the afternoon we return on the Cap Tenaro and again to Kardamili.
Colchicum peleponnesiacum?
Crocus boryi
Scilla autumnalis
Sternbergia lutea
Karl at the Cap Tenaro
My Mrs Christine and Herbert
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My friend is 2 m tall Maggi
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My friend is 2 m tall Maggi
;) ;D Thank goodness for that! :D
I must say this looks like a very good holiday.... you are all having a pleasant time together and the flowers are so pretty... and now we are all enjoying the same flowers from your photos.... a real pleasure!
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We drive to Githio and by the inner Mani today.
Githio
Octopus
Spurge Hawk moth Caterpillar
Testudo marginata
Pyrus spinosa
Crocus goulimyi
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I am pleased Maggi, that you like the pictures.
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Photos of the return journey of Gitio.
Mani
Vespa crabro
Sternbergia lutea
Crocus goulimyi 2x
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Karl really enjoyable trip thanks for showing the pictures. You saw some good plants.
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Day 8.)
My wife has forgotten her passport in Olympia and therefore we return there and drive on to the Mt
Chelmos to Kalavrita again.
Colchicum bivonae
Colchicum psaridis
Galanthus reginae-olgae
Sternbergia sicula
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On December 13th, 1943, Kalavrita was shooting more than 600 male inhabitants over 13 years above after the Greek partisans had shot 60 German soldiers before. All houses were then burned down. Rack-railroad in the Voucosravine.
The Diakofto Kalavryta Railway is a historic 750 mm (2 ft 5 1⁄2 in) gauge rack railway in Greece on the Peloponnesos at the Gulf of Corinth 50 km from Patras and 150 km from Athens vis-à-vis Delphi. It runs 22 km from Diakofto through the Vouraikos Gorge and the old "Mega Spileon" Monastery and up to Kalavryta, stopping on route at Zachlorou.
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The Mt Chelmos 2338 m is a ski area and destroys very much through pistes. We hardly found blossoming plants in this height.
Climbed here plants still hardly were us in store for the Mt Saitoss anyway, too. We then drove direction Athens. I hereby would like mine travel decide.
Karl
We thought of Crocus cancellatus ssp.mazziaricus.
For Crocus niveus he is much too small.
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Thank you Karl for those nice pics !
it brings back a lot of nice memories on our trip in this area in fall 2000 .
We used also this railway from Diakofto - to Mega Spileon ....from there we walked back to Diakofto -it was a really interesting trip
Greetings from germany
Hans
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Thank you Hans, it was really a beautiful journey. An until two weeks late one still more ideally lasts.
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Enjoyed your journey Karl, thanks for posting.
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Wonderful report Karl !
You definitely hit the right timing to see this magnificent flora !
Thanks a lot for taking us along on your journey ! ;)
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I am pleased that you have liked the pictures. Only ewin is always a small part of the experienced.