Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Cultivation => Cultivation Problems => Topic started by: mark smyth on October 31, 2010, 03:35:32 PM
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Can anyone tell me how deep I should plant Veratrums? What position do they like?
Thanks
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sorry Maggi, I put this in the wrong forum section ::)
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sorry Maggi, I put this in the wrong forum section ::)
Why? Isn't this a sort of cultivation problem?
I'm surprised you have any room for Veratrums, Mark.... most of them get pretty big.... :o
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It's been tortured for years in a pot and has never flowered. The label now lost said it was small. It needs its freedom.
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Can anyone tell me how deep I should plant Veratrums? What position do they like?
Thanks
Hi Mark,
I grow mine in a general East facing border amongst Crocosmia, Alstromeria, Lilies and Hostas. I just leave it alone. It is probably about 30cm deep.
The planting keeps the roots cool and it never dries out.
Mine gets to about 1.5m tall
You can see how Luit (Lvandelft) grows his in the General Forum - Puzzles thread #1089 July 25th 2010. Page 73. Not sure how to link you there.
Photos of both mine (Page 72) and Luits are in that thread.
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http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3289.1080 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3289.1080)
thanks. None of my raised beds are deep enough but I'll plant it tomorrow. It's nose is on the surface and showing new growth already
Here's Luit van Delft's photo
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I'm sure they like a good deep soil as any I've had in a pot for any length of time has become very constricted and suffers badly from dryness. I came close to losing V. album because it was in a very big pot, for too long. I'd plant it out if possible Mark, with the nose where it joins the root system, just at surface level. Water well then a good mulch for the summer.
Can anyone tell me anything about V. oblongatum? Where it comes from, how big etc?
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Can anyone tell me anything about V. oblongatum? Where it comes from, how big etc?
Do you mean the Chinese V. oblongum? I think Pilous has offered seeds of it in the past?
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200028017
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Oh dear...I've been waiting for V nigrum to bloom for ages...I wanted to see what it looked like before chosing the right spot!
Do you mean I could wait till jugement day without blooms, unless I plant it in the garden? Lol, thank you for the tip!
It's still alive, and doen't seem to resent the (oups..tiny) pot it is in...
Pretty leaves though, well... when those *%$£# called slugs and slails leave it alone!
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Zeph's heartfelt lament about chewed Veratrum leaves makes me ponder, yet again, on the ability of slugs and snails to ingest such toxic plant material without ill effects to their systems. Quite extraordinary, isn't it? :P
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Thanks for that link Bjornar.
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I'm not bothered by slugs and snails but overnight have had a visit from a rabbit who had bitten off many seed heads, especially of choice narcissus, the white cyclamineus for example, whose seed I especially wanted. He apparently didn't like them as they're bitten off and left. The seed may be mature enough to sow if I leave them in the sun to dry. Worth a try anyway. He also has fed copiously on foliage of freesia, ixias, smaller gladiolus species and assorted other things. Odd that Teddy didn't raise an alarm because other nights he can smell a bunny at 100 metres or more and raises merry hell until he's caught it.
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I agree. No veratrum belongs in a pot (of resonable size) Nigrum will grow a meter high at flowering and californicum can attain 2m.
The only small one I have seen is the brown/orange form of maackii that will flower if only knee high.
Snails can turn Veratrum nigrum leaves to a net but I have the problem not always and not everywhere.
Aconitums are among the most poisonous plants we can grow. Nevertheless I get attacks of dark blue greenfly (bluefly ;)) on A. napellus.
Poisons can be quite selective. Birds can sometimes eat tings that are really harmful to mammals.
Göte
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Gote, I bought Veratrum maackii locally some years ago and I have to say your mention of it here and now, is the only reference I've ever seen (not that I've looked). Mine is brown even in the foliage and honestly, is one of my less exciting plants.
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I've seen two quite different ecological sitings of Veratrum: one in a rich, moist woodland by Sutton Creek (in the same ecological reserve famous for its sweeping stands of Erythronium revolutum) (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.826673,-124.204774&spn=0.019834,0.038538&t=p&z=15), and near the top of Blue Mountain (Deer Park) in the Olympic Mountains of Washington State (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=47.954352,-123.255014&spn=0.020176,0.038538&t=p&z=15).
It may be that these were two distinct species, V. viride at Sutton Creek and V. californicum at Deer Park, but the taxonomy of the Pacific Coast veratrums was, last time I looked into it, in a muddle. (My guesses may in fact be exactly in reverse of the proper identifications, so please don't quote me!)
At any rate, veratrums seem to occur in fairly widely varying situations, and what's best for Mark Smyth's veratrum may not be best for another species.
HOWEVER: I suggest that the crown be just below the soil surface, preferably in good, deep, soil on the rich side.
PS: The veratrums at Sutton Creek are chewed to pieces by the local mollusks, just as happens in gardens. Local in this case does not necessarily mean native: I have seen Arion ater, a very destructive introduced slug, in wooded areas quite far from any habitation or farm, though not at Sutton Creek.
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Gote, I bought Veratrum maackii locally some years ago and I have to say your mention of it here and now, is the only reference I've ever seen (not that I've looked). Mine is brown even in the foliage and honestly, is one of my less exciting plants.
I found it a quite nice meadow plant in Utsukushi no Hara near Matsumoto. Unfortunately I have no scans. It is not an exciting plant. I later bought one and it turned out green and does not do very well. It seems that it is variable in colour and stature.
Göte
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Mark I am sure it will find it's optimum depth by itself. A friend down the road is growing Veratrum nigrum and has a nice clump, this year she was going to split it up but gave up trying as the bulbs had gone much deeper than she had originally planted them.
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Once well established, the larger veratrums such as niger and album need three strong men with large spades, and probably a small bulldozer with digger attachment, to lift them. ???
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Once well established, the larger veratrums such as niger and album need three strong men with large spades, and probably a small bulldozer with digger attachment, to lift them. ???
That gives me three men's strength Lesley ;D
(But I have light soil - and use a fork not spade)
But I do agree. They are awkward to move even if not as awkward as Gentiana lutea
Göte