Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: mark smyth on May 23, 2010, 09:14:21 PM

Title: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: mark smyth on May 23, 2010, 09:14:21 PM
This orchid is just about to flower. It's a self sown seedling in a trough. Does anyone know the species?
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: mark smyth on May 23, 2010, 09:17:20 PM
and another growing on my rockery
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: daveyp1970 on May 25, 2010, 11:09:30 AM
could the first one be a Dactylorhiza incarnata or hybrid from it.
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: mark smyth on May 25, 2010, 02:51:16 PM
It could be.

Does anyone grow incarnata ssp incarnata? It's a lovely salmon pink. Or ssp coccinea that is dark rich red?
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: fredg on May 25, 2010, 07:23:57 PM
This is one of my D. incarnata
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: daveyp1970 on May 25, 2010, 07:30:29 PM
thats a lovely incarnata Fred.Mark that first photo could also have a dose of Dactylorhiza foliosa in there as well,i think you will have to enjoy it as Dactylorhiza x
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: mark smyth on May 25, 2010, 07:35:54 PM
Goodness me Fred :o :o
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: mark smyth on May 25, 2010, 07:43:36 PM
Thanks again. I have a new set of photos of the plant in the trough. I emailed Ireland's orchid expert but no reply so far.
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: mark smyth on May 25, 2010, 07:46:58 PM
and another orchid seen on Rathlin Island last week growing in a few centimeters of soild on a wall.

I have the book "The Orchids of Ireland" but the more I look the more I'm confused
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: fredg on May 25, 2010, 07:58:48 PM
IDing these Dactylorhiza can get a little confusing.
These are all Dactylorhiza maculata  ???
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: Diane Clement on May 25, 2010, 08:06:53 PM
Can anyone identify this?  Sorry for poor picture, I'll try and take a better one when I am next at home in daylight.
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: daveyp1970 on May 26, 2010, 09:23:49 AM
and another orchid seen on Rathlin Island last week growing in a few centimeters of soild on a wall.

I have the book "The Orchids of Ireland" but the more I look the more I'm confused
Mark i'm sure this is orchis mascula
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: daveyp1970 on May 26, 2010, 09:24:52 AM
Can anyone identify this?  Sorry for poor picture, I'll try and take a better one when I am next at home in daylight.

Diane i think yours is orchis mascula as well
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: mark smyth on May 26, 2010, 10:55:48 AM
The answer from Botanic Gardens Glasnevin in Dublin is the first orchid is Dactylorhiza majalis ssp occindentalis which literally means western May flowering
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: Tony Willis on May 26, 2010, 11:18:43 AM
Mark if you grow several 'species' then I find it improbable that anybody could be definitive.

Here is a group of self sown plants in my garden last year,too early yet for them this year. They could be anything and I have dozens coming up in pots and cracks all over the garden. I had a collection of several species before the dreaded black death struck and these seedlings have come up over the past several years.There are also wild plants only a few hundred yards away which could also be hybridising with them.
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: mark smyth on May 26, 2010, 11:48:55 AM
That I understand. While weeding this year I have found many tiny orchids.

The left spike is brilliant
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: winwen on May 26, 2010, 11:50:53 AM
fredfg,

your pretty photos show exactly why I love this species soooooo much. Each individual plant of these is a really unique masterpiece - "in varietate concordia". A really european plant!
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: daveyp1970 on May 26, 2010, 01:34:58 PM
Mark if you grow several 'species' then I find it improbable that anybody could be definitive.

Here is a group of self sown plants in my garden last year,too early yet for them this year. They could be anything and I have dozens coming up in pots and cracks all over the garden. I had a collection of several species before the dreaded black death struck and these seedlings have come up over the past several years.There are also wild plants only a few hundred yards away which could also be hybridising with them.
Tony can i ask did you get to the bottom of your black death mystery because my friend FredG had nearly all his Dactylorhiza wiped out one year and we are still scratching our heads over the reason.
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: Tony Willis on May 26, 2010, 03:53:52 PM
I had a collection of about 10 species which I kept in pots and had perhaps 100 of them. They were multiplying at a great rate each year.I was given a plant of Orchis maderensis which I planted in the garden and a few weeks later it started to turn black from the base and died. Next spring half my plants died as the growing points turned hard and black as if covered with hard tar and just failed to develop. The following spring they were all dead. I tried peeling the black scales of with a razor blade back to the green inner but this did not work.Since then hundreds have germinated all over the garden and seem to grow with no problems.
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: Maggi Young on May 26, 2010, 04:05:00 PM
can i ask did you get to the bottom of your black death mystery because my friend FredG had nearly all his Dactylorhiza wiped out one year and we are still scratching our heads over the reason.

 There is a thread here : http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=566.msg13690#msg13690
 and here is the article referred to in that thread, by Brian and Maureen Wilson, form the Rock Garden  #107 of 2001
click on the link to download it....
[attach=1]
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: Tony Willis on May 26, 2010, 04:21:22 PM
Maggi thanks for reminding me about that article. The problem with my plants though did not relate to this in that it was the over wintering bud that was diseased and not the leaves. Infected plants ( the whole collection over two winters) died as they tried to start into growth in spring. They did not fade away over a period of time as they weakened and in fact had excellent root systems. The first autumn before they died they looked good and promised and exciting spring. The next year I knew what to look for on the remaining plants and looked forward to an unexciting spring.
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: Graham Catlow on May 26, 2010, 05:41:04 PM
Please, Please, Please, someone tell me this isn't what you are talking about :-\
I bought this from e-bay in the Autumn along with D. sambucina which is just showing a blackened tip as it begins to break the surface.

I have numerous Dactylorhiza in the garden!

Graham
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: Tony Willis on May 26, 2010, 06:50:13 PM
Graham,just do not shoot the messenger-that looks awful. I should try the Wilson's ideas straight away.
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: Maggi Young on May 26, 2010, 07:16:06 PM
eeek!  :o  Graham..... quarantine the plant as soon as possible!
Title: Re: Dactylorhiza for IDing
Post by: Graham Catlow on May 26, 2010, 07:41:13 PM
Graham,just do not shoot the messenger-that looks awful. I should try the Wilson's ideas straight away.
eeek!  :o  Graham..... quarantine the plant as soon as possible!

Thanks to both of you.
Will do!  :'( :'( :'(
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