Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: monocotman on May 05, 2010, 10:17:13 AM
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hi there,
it's been a pretty slow start to the season here - I reckon the plants are at least two weeks later than last year.
First up, not surprisingly, is a group of fasciolatum hybrids.
Front left is a new seedling for me - 'Florence' ( not yet registered). This is a 2nd generation hybrid - Gisela x fasciolatum, from Peter Corkhill.
I was hoping that it would have kept some of Gisela's red colouration, but not to be. Two doses of yellow/brown flowers have drowned out the red of macranthos, at least in this clone.
However it is vigorous - three immature growths last year have produced five growths and four flowers this year.
Front right is Victoria - pubescens x fasciolatum. A vigorous second year flowering seedling - two growths and one flower last year increasing to five growths and four flowers this.
The large plant at the back is the Sunny ( calceolus x fasciolatum) that I posted photos of the repotting and dividing of last autumn.
I removed six small divisions, varying from one to four buds and five have appeared this spring, though all are quite small and need at least a year to reestablish.
In contrast the individual stems of the main plant are bigger, have larger leaves and flowers than ever before. I probably didn't remove enough roots for the small divisions.
This seems to be par for the course when repotting and dividing cyps. Some plants sail through without any obvious problems and others suffer a setback and take a year to settle down,
Regards,
David
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hey,
I have only one of my "treasures" flowering in pot in the greenhouse.
its a first time flowering of a bunch of Cyp. segawai seedlings.
though beein very small, only 10 cm high,
it makes this flower, a little bit distorted.
(http://www.bildercache.de/bild/20100506-090903-670.jpg)
cheers
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Good morning,
just been browsing through some old photos and was struck by the improvement in the flowers of 'Sunny' over the last five years.
First up is the very first flower in 2005.
Second is the current flower, out now.
The difference is striking - the form, colour and size have all improved markedly.
When it first flowered I contacted the breeder to see if there was much variation in the flower colour in the cross.
Apparently not. I'd seen a photo of Sunny at Werner Frosh's web site and wanted a similar plant with strong brown/yellow colouration.
The improvement appears to be down to a combination of culture and maturity,
Regards,
David
ps goofy - nice segawi - not one you see offered very often!
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thanks David :)
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Hi,
an excellent new hybrid - Sabine pastel. Probably ought to be called Sabine 'virtually pure albino'.
The first hybrid grex with an almost pure white flower - there is just a few faint red spots behind the staminode. The rest of the flower is pure alba.
It's great to have a hybrid with white flowers - this is new.
Hopefully it will have hybrid vigour and eventually make a nice potful.
I don't know the exact parents that were used. Sabine is macranthos x fasciolatum. There are plenty of macranthos alba clones around but is this enough when crossed to produce Sabine pastel? Are there alba clones of fasciolatum?
There are similar grexes with Gisela/pastel and Aki/pastel, both of which probably used macranthos alba as one of the parents.
Neither of these pastel grexes are as pale as Sabine.
Regards,
David
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Afternoon,
flowering for the first time for me is the hybrid 'Iwahime' - macranthos var speciosum x fasciolatum.
Anybody know where this name came from?
Although speciosum is smaller and paler coloured than straight macranthos,the flower is very similar to Sabine ( macranthos x fasciolatum).
There may be more striping in the flower than in Sabine, but it is fairly marginal and there is no difference in the size.
I'll post a comparison photo pf the two in a couple of days.
Still, a nice thing and looks to be fairly vigorous,
Regards,
David
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Anybody know where this name came from?
Historical Japanese Empress/Princess Iwahime.
Now used as the name of one of the characters in a digital wargame, I believe.
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Cypripedium macranthos var. speciosum comes from Japan, hence the name of hybrid. http://www.w-frosch.de/Cypris/Arten/arten_e.htm
Cypripedium 'Sabine' is actually fasciolatum X macranthos, not vice versa, though I'm not sure if that makes any difference?
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Maggi,
thanks for the information. I believe the plant was originally from Peter Corkhill via Laneside Alpines.
I know Peter had contacts in Japan so maybe he named it for them.
Anthony -thanks - I haven't heard of any morphological differences between reciprocal crosses in cyps, has anyone?
Regards,
David
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Good morning,
the star performer for me this year is this plant of the hybrid Michael (macranthos x henryi).
Last year there were four stems and seven flowers, this year there are eight stems and fifteen flowers.
Now it has matured, the plant regularly produces multiple flowers per stem, as does another henryi hybrid, Hank Small (parviflorum x henryi).
It seems to be a good parent for multiple flowers and recessive for flower colour - just as well as they tends to be small, fairly non descript and green.
The hybrids are reasonably fast growers but the stems tend to be a bit on the weak side - probably affected by the number of flowers. In this week's high winds I've had to take both plants into the greenhouse to stop them being bashed about.
Regards,
David
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David
That is stunning. Are you still using the perlite mix you talked about before?
David
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Maggi,
thanks for the information. I believe the plant was originally from Peter Corkhill via Laneside Alpines.
I know Peter had contacts in Japan so maybe he named it for them.
Iwahime was not named/registered by P. Corkhill
but by A.Hiratsuka & T. Oyamada in 2008.
Nevertheless your plant might origin from Peter
cheers
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Hello,
see my little collection in pots. They all grow in nearly pure Seramis.
kentuckiense, flavum und reginae are on the way!
Herbert
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David,
yes - I'm still using the same mix as before. 80-90% super coarse perlite plus a bit of orchid bark. Then full strength feed from the very beginning of growth. I posted a photo of the same plant last year.
I have a slightly nerdy photographic record of this particular plant from it's purchase as it coincided with my first digital camera!
In 2006 and 2007 it produced just a single growth and flower.
In 2008 there were three growths and four flowers.
In 2009 there were four growths and seven flowers then in 2010 eight growths and fifteen flowers.
This seems to be fairly typical of quite a few of the hybrids. They really don't start to grow quickly until there are between two and four growths. Then doubling in size each year seems to be fairly normal - it can be higher.
Hideki Okuyama ( fasciolatum x ventricosum) has increased from three growths and two flowers last year to eight growths and five flowers this year. Pity the flowers are a bit ho-hum.
The only ones that don't go along with this are the Reginae hybrids with anything except the closely related flavum. Ulla Silkens grows well but the rest I find pretty slow and a bit miffy.
Wouter Peters ( fasciolatum x Reginae) last flowered in 2006, then virtually disappeared the following year and is only now back to flowering size.
Goofy - thanks for the info, I hadn't checked Werner Frosch's list to look at the registration.
Pauli - it sounds like we use a very similar compost,
Regards,
David
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David,
I always check the RHS Orchid Register ;D
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/
cheers
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Good morning,
first up is a comparison photo of the hybrids Iwahime (left) and Sabine (right). Not much difference- Iwahime has more pronounced veining and a whiter pouch in this flowering. Other clones may be almost identical.
Second photo is the 2nd generation hybrid Hideki Okuyama ( Gisela x fasciolatum). A very vigorous clone. Second year of flowering and already eight growths and five flowers. The flowers are growing on me - much nicer than last year. The petals are distinctly green.
Regards,
David
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Second photo is the 2nd generation hybrid Hideki Okuyama ( Gisela x fasciolatum). A very vigorous clone. Second year of flowering and already eight growths and five flowers. The flowers are growing on me - much nicer than last year. The petals are distinctly green.
hey, I doubt severely that this is Hideki.
Hideki Okuyama is not a "Gisela hybrid", and looks totaly different
http://www.w-frosch.de/Cypris/Hybriden/hidek.htm
Gisela X fasciolatum is Cyp. Florence,
and your plant "might be" Florence.
but this too is doubtful.
Here is a pic, which I got from P. Corkhill some years ago:
http://www.imaginingdesign.com/orchid/view.php?sID=152
Sometimes its a real problem to get plants true to name.
Even if one buy from a serious seller/breeder,
they seem to mix up the names by errors and plants are wrong labeled.
cheers
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Surely the identification of these plants is further confused by the fact that young plants can have flowers remarkably different from the flowers from a mature plant in future years.... so that photos of flowers from the same plant would look quite different from year to year?!!?? :-\
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Hi, I saw this Cypripedium Aki in a pot, displayed by Edrom nurseries at the Malvern Show. The plant height was less than a foot and the group was very compact and balanced. Mine tend to be a lot taller. I asked the man about this and he said they were located in Scotland and that probably explained it. One of his friends, who lived in Kent, produced plants like Cyp kentuckiense that reached 1m in height (like mine) and his came to only to 40cm.
Hmmm, I liked his plant but move to Scotland ???
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Hmmm, I liked his plant but move to Scotland ???
Why not, Maren? You'd be very welcome.... and so would your plants!! ;D
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Surely the identification of these plants is further confused by the fact that young plants can have flowers remarkably different from the flowers from a mature plant in future years.... so that photos of flowers from the same plant would look quite different from year to year?!!?? :-\
Maggi, I have had completely different flowers on the same stem!. A couple of years ago, questions were asked about a potful of X ventricosum I had at a show, as some flowers were different from others and it was thought there might be more than one clone in the pot. The colour is dependent on the temperature at a critical point in the flower's development. I had a clump of calceolus that was very peely wally, growing under an acer. I moved it and the flowers were much darker the next year.
My 'Sabine' is more like 'Iwahime' and is just coming out now.
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Hi there,
Goofy - you may well be right. I had the parentage of Hideki wrong - I got it confused with the Florence that I'd posted earlier.
This plant and the Florence came direct from Peter so I'll check up with him. It is still possible that they are correct if both were made with an alba or pale form of either ventricosum or macranthos.
However neither have the largest flowers so it is unlikely that the 'Hideki' is correct, if the photo from Werner Frosch is correct. They could both be Florence made with a pale Gisela.
Maren -As regards plant heights- I find that a 100% increase in height is quite possible from a seedling flowering for the first time to a mature plant. Newly repotted plants also tend to be shorter stemmed the following year.
Regards,
David
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A few of mine today.
Cyp. fasciolatum
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A few more.
Cyp flavum
x ventricosum tall
xventricosum dark
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Dave, I have put the plant names in the text of your posts..... without that the search engine cannot find them.
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Thanks, forgot to put them on :P
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I'm waiting for the Cyp. ventricosum 'Handsome'. ;D
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I'm waiting for the Cyp. ventricosum 'Handsome'. ;D
I suspect that variety has been superceded by 'tubby' ;)
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I'm waiting for the Cyp. ventricosum 'Handsome'. ;D
Ha Ha. :D
It was done so I would know which to upload.
David
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Just been round my garden on my daily round and saw a few cyps half eaten. :'(
Clearly the molluscs are at it again. Quick, must get the slug pellets, you too! and if you used them up don't forget to buy some more. :( :(
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I've never had slugs attack my cyps (touch wood). Perhaps because most are surround by sharp gravel.
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I've been taking some Cypripedium photos recently, all in pots, so this looks like the correct place to post them. ;)
Firstly a couple of mine from last week:
- Cypripedium formosanum has not done well for me this year - I know there's a lot of flowers (17), but there are fifty growing points in there, the flowers are all one one side of the plant and also some obvious aborted flower buds at the tips of some of the shoots. Also the flowers are sitting well down amongst the leaves rather than rising above them, something I've not noticed before. I changed my compost last year to 80% pumice and 20% leafmould, and it's either due to the change in compost, or the fact that early last summer my Cyps became to dry at one point, before I realised that the compost was veryfree draining. I hope it's due to the dry spell: the plants bulked up so well that I changed the mix to 50:50 pumice:leafmould :-\
- Cypripedium formosanum close up.
- Cypripedium 'Aki Light'; seems to be half way in colour between 'Aki' and Aki Pastel'. Maren asked about the short statured plants of 'Aki' from Edrom at the Malvern show - they're only sixty miles north of me, and my plant also flowered at 16in/40cms. However I find this clone tends to flop easily after its daily misting, it doesn't seem able to support it's own weight when wet.
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Peter, I would suspect you are correct and that the aborted flowers are due to a lack of water.
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Oh well, with fifty shoots this year, if I get the conditions right and if we get a good winter, I may aim to get it to the Glasgow show next year. :D
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I had the opportunity to visit Alan Newton's garden earlier this week to photograph the Cypripediums he had in flower. The first of two batches from his garden.
- Cypripedium Inge
- 2 photos of a hybrid he has labelled as Cypripedium calceolus x cordigerum. I believe the cross has been registered as 'Karl Heinz'
- Cypripedium Paul
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More of Alan's plants
- Cypripedium pletrochilum
- Cypripedium 'Victoria' ?? We thought that Victoria should have much more yellow in the pouch than this.
- 2 views of Cypripedium wardii guttatum. The flower is just over 2cms across.
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Peter
Last two don't look like any C. wardii I have seen before. They look more like C. guttatum.
My Cyp mix is a 90% equal mix of Pumice and Perlite with 10% bark and they seem to love it. Pumice on it's own does dry out quickly but the added perlite seems to solve the problem.
I have about 30 Cyp japonicum with very few flowering this year compared to last year. Can only put it down to the weather and the extended cold period.
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Last two don't look like any C. wardii I have seen before. They look more like C. guttatum.
David,
That was my first thought on seeing the colour. However, I would say that the plant was very diminutive, more so than any guttatum I've seen, flowering at about 3 inches in height (I've appended the whole photo, which shows the edge of the pot, about 6inches in diameter if my memory is correct, and the tip of the label visible against the pot wall is less than 1cm across). Also the whole pouch of the flower was/is somewhat 'chubby', not a term that I would use to describe Cyp guttatum.
At least it's not my plant so I don't really have to worry. ;D
Peter
PS. Having just reviewed Hans' pictures of guttatum over on the 'Cypripidums 2010' thread, I would also be more inclined to call it Cyp guttatum. The only problem is, who is going to tell Alan Newton he has another Cyp under a false name? ::)
Further addendum, for the nerds amongst us. On reading through Phillip Cribb's book (The Genus Cypripedium), some the features that mark it as Cyp guttatum are the lack of the incurved edge to the lip, and the prescence of two, not three or four leaves, I've changed the name on the original post to reflect this.
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Here's my next Cypripedium to flower. I recieved it as Cypripedium mandchuricum x calceolus, but.... As I understand it, mandchuricum is an invalid name or the hybrid Cyp x ventricosum (macranthos x calceolus), and this plant looks a dead ringer for the first picture under Cyp x ventricosum on Frosch's website, except that the hanging lateral petals are not as twisted as 'typical' (whatever that means) ventricosum ,so there may not be any calceolus blood in there.
I'm inclined to call it Cypripedium macranthos. Anyone prepared to call it something else?
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Peter, what ever it is it is absolutely stunning. I just love the colour. 8)
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Yep, it doesn't matter what we call it, I'd have to say it's a great plant, and this year I got to see the flower properly. It was just coming into flower last year when I had my watering problems. Hopefully two flowers next year!
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Here's my patio with the two pots of cyps in flower, plus a close up of Cypripedium X Ventricosum.
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hi,
a few more plants have flowered recently and some of the hybrids may even be 'correct'!
First up is Pixi (calceolus x tibeticum). A good grower - third season flowering and already nine stems.
Unfortunately like quite a few other plants they have suffered from repotting last autumn. I'm not sure why.
The leaves were a bit 'streaky' (similar to a virus infection) this spring, though they've greened up well now.
I suspect that either:-
1. I don't water them enough over winter ( most years they receive nothing at all from November to March) or,
2. They need a bit of feed after repotting. They were just watered then left until spring this year.
The stems are smaller and leaves of several plants are smaller than last year and there are fewer, though bigger flowers.
The flowers of Pixi are deeper and more richly coloured each year and a really nice red-brown.
Regards,
David
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Hi,
second up tonight is Lucy Pinkepank (kentuckiense x tibeticum). This is the biggest hybrid I grow. The stems are thick and the the flowers huge. It isn't the most graceful plant going but it packs a punch. Slow to increase, it tends to put on just one new stem per year.
Regards,
David
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Hi,
third new one tonight is Birgit (macranthos x cordigerum) and probably my favourite. Bought off ebay three years ago it has grown well after spending a year re-establishing. Last year there were three immature growths and this year six with three flowering. It even looks correct for the cross. Flowers are smallish, about 'Michael' in size though the lateral petals are much bigger and longer. It should look quite impressive on a large plant.
Regards,
David
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Hi,
final new hybrid - Rascal(parviflorum x kentuckiense). This arrived from Austria early spring and has performed valiantly to put up a nice flower in the first year.
Only a weakish first year growth but the flower is full of character.Nice rich yellow lip and long twisting brown petals. Love it!
Regards,
David
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David your Rascal is fantastic reminds me of a multyfloral paph
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Two pics taken today: Cypripedium 'Karl Heinz' and another £3 lucky dip from Paul Christian, C. macranthos.
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Anthony lovely plants what do you mean a lucky dip plant :-[
Angie :)
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In the sale it just said Cypripedium seedlings "lucky dip" named species/hybrid our choice £3.00. I bought two and got 'Sabine' and macranthos as tiny little yellow spidery seedlings about two inches across with a 5mm bud in the middle.
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Well that was a great buy Anthony . I have only two plants in pots , but sadly mine were expensive.
Angie :)
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my Cypripedium parviflorum in flower at the moment
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A few more today.
Cyp flavum seedlings flowering.
Cyp flavum alba
Cyp tibeticum
Cyp macranthos
Cyp henryi
Cyp fasciolatum
Cyp japonicum
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my Cypripedium parviflorum in flower at the moment
Nice form of parviflorum Tony. Is it scented?
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I've had this Cypripedium for a number of years now. It originally came labelled Cyp segawei, which it definitiely isn't, and I assume it's a hybrid. The nearest I can find on Frosch's website when looking through the pictures of the hybrids is Cypripedium Holger, a henryi x speciosum hybrid, but I really not that sure.
It flowers at about 40cms height, the flowers being 4-5cms across (measured across the lateral petals)
Does anyone have any idea what it might be?
After some further internet browsing in the name of research, I'm begining to think it's a form of Cyp. x ventricosum. There's certainly some Cyp. macranthos in there.
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my Cypripedium parviflorum in flower at the moment
Nice form of parviflorum Tony. Is it scented?
Anthony not that I can detect but it is cold and raining so not the best conditions.
Peter I have no idea but it is very nice.
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At home I keep just a very few Cyps in pots. The following are currently in flower. These are about 4 years out of flask.
1. C. kentuckiense
2. C. reginae albolabellum
3. C. pubescens x montanum
Paul
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Hi Paul
Nice shots of nice plants. I also have some of those reginae that should flower next year, fingers crossed they are the same as it's a super looking plant.
David
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Hi Paul,
I really like the C. reginae albolabellum. I haven't seen or heard of it before.
Graham
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Graham
I think Phytesia were selling them a while back.
David
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David,
Is C. reginae albolabellum the same as C. reginae alba, as Phytesia are offering the latter but not the former.
Graham
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Graham
Not sure but I think it should read Cyp reginae alba labellum. Anyone?
David
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How about:
Cypripedium reginae Walter f. albolabium Fernald & B.G.Schub ?
But I would be inclined to go for simply:
Cypripedium reginae v. album
Although one's natural inclination may be to call it Cypripedium reginae v. alba, that would be incorrect as the varietal epithet takes its gender from the genus, which in this case is -um = neuter, hence album. - How I enjoyed my nine years of Latin at school ;) ;) ;)
If in doubt, I tend to consult the International Plant Name Index, maintained by Kew:
http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantnamesearchpage.do
To find the above result I entered: Genus: Cypripedium, Species: reginae.
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Here is Cypripedium parviflorum pubescens.