Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: mark smyth on April 17, 2010, 09:11:53 PM
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Last year I found a variegated Dactylorhiza. It's back in to growth and .... oh happy days .... it continues to be variegated.
Weeding in the garden this week I've found many small Dactylorhizas
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Hi Mark
Any photos?
David
Ignore question as I just looked on your website. Nice clear pictures, looks very good.
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Now you just have to wait and build up stock. I'm sure there are a lot of people who will be interested in owning a varigated Dactylorhiza. Do you aave any idea about what species it is?
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This one. Photos taken last July.
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Is it the one with the white edge to the leaf? If so, it's very interesting. 8)
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It is. New growth shows cream edged leaves. The nose is still tightly closed
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It looks as if this is a Dactylorhiza fuchsii.
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Here is a photo of one I got from Laneside Alpines last year.
He said he'd had it tested for virus, I was suspicious it was on it's last legs, but it has come through the winter ok.
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My guess is it will not like full sun.
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I think you're right about them not liking full sun, they never seed around in my garden.
The position it is in is shaded in the morning & evening but gets mid day sun.
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Is it the one with the white edge to the leaf? If so, it's very interesting. 8)
Where? 8)
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Is it the one with the white edge to the leaf? If so, it's very interesting. 8)
Where? 8)
See Mark's Garden Plants web site Fred.
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http://marksgardenplants.com/dactylorhiza%20variegated.html (http://marksgardenplants.com/dactylorhiza%20variegated.html)
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This is a plant I brought back some eons ago from my cousins home in France. They grow all over the property just above the small river in half sun. It does well for me and sets seed most years, although I've not noted any seedlings. I'm not sure to the species, but would expect it to be D. maculata.
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A population with Dact. fuchsii behind my house (nearly black leaves)
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This is a plant I brought back some eons ago from my cousins home in France. They grow all over the property just above the small river in half sun. It does well for me and sets seed most years, although I've not noted any seedlings. I'm not sure to the species, but would expect it to be D. maculata.
Jamie your plant is Orchis mascula not Dactylorhiza.Lovely thing
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Dave,
thanks! I had a feeling the ID wasn't correct, but I really can't keep the terrestrial orchids apart. Except maybe a Cypripedium....
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The first leaf of the leaves of my variegated Dactylorhiza have finally opened. I'm very happy it has survived the winter but I'm worried it will not live.
We know that we can multiply Dacts by removing the new tuber when the flower is over but what can I do with my plant? Can I remove the new tuber this summer?
Last year the plant had only two leaves - attached for comparison.
Is it worth naming?
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That is awesome Mark. 8)
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Mark if you want to make two tubers from it this summer instead of one dig up the plant carefully when the flower spike is just on the turn remove the new tuber that has formed and pot it up then put the plant and old tuber back in the soil it will then produce another tuber not a massive one but a second one bonus,i hope this makes sense.
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I remember Ian Young demonstrating this. Definitely worth naming Mark as it is quite striking.
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I remember Ian Young demonstrating this. Definitely worth naming Mark as it is quite striking.
i agree i would put my name down for a piece when its large enough.
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Mark if you want to make two tubers from it this summer instead of one dig up the plant carefully when the flower spike is just on the turn remove the new tuber that has formed and pot it up then put the plant and old tuber back in the soil it will then produce another tuber not a massive one but a second one bonus,i hope this makes sense.
I find that Dactylorhiiza multiply quite well without interference.
Dave just likes to delve in pots all the time, sometimes I think his plants spend longer out of the soil ;) ;) ;) ;D
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Keeps him smiling though.
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Davey I do this already with flowering sized plants. This one had only two leaves last year so it could be a few away from flowering
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Mark if you want to make two tubers from it this summer instead of one dig up the plant carefully when the flower spike is just on the turn remove the new tuber that has formed and pot it up then put the plant and old tuber back in the soil it will then produce another tuber not a massive one but a second one bonus,i hope this makes sense.
I find that Dactylorhiiza multiply quite well without interference.
Dave just likes to delve in pots all the time, sometimes I think his plants spend longer out of the soil ;) ;) ;) ;D
LMAO you know me so well
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Davey I do this already with flowering sized plants. This one had only two leaves last year so it could be a few away from flowering
I think you might be better waiting another year to try the multiplication tactic, Mark... if it is still a year off flowering I wouldn't stress it too much. Even in its first flower year it is a lot to ask of a young plant.....different when it is a big fat mature tuber to start with ;)
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I'm just worried that something will happen to it before I make £million.
It's in a semi-shade trough. Maybe I should move it to either a full sun trough or a raised bed in at the front where it will have good light
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Never change your "winning" conditions too radical! Semi shade has worked so far. Just protect from slugs and snails and keep moist!
According multiplication I think that early separation of side-tubers may also lead to injuries of both plants and you may easily loose both to rot: mother and child!
I would suggest to bring it to flowering and try to get seeds by self-pollinating the flowers BEFORE multiplying vegetatively.
If vegetative propagation is the only way, then tuber-separation would be OK. But if it comes true to seed, multiplication would be much easier and there is no need to risk the life of this unique beauty!
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thanks Wim. For now it is happy and the leaves are growing.
and to bore you again ...
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hey, I never heared of variegated seedlings from veriegated plants.
so I have severely doubts.
pollinating the plant just will weaken the small tuber.
keep in same conditions to mature the tubers.
cheers
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Dactylorhiza fuchsii is definitely not weakened by bearing seeds. It splits regularily anyway if conditions do it favour!
BUT having a try on seeds is really worth the effort: it is the natural way of preserving and multiplying genetic material. Hence: there may be no variegated seedlings in the 1st generation BUT likeliness of occurrence of variegated seedlings in future generations is massively enhanced.
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Dactylorhiza fuchsii is definitely not weakened by bearing seeds. It splits regularily anyway if conditions do it favour!
BUT having a try on seeds is really worth the effort: it is the natural way of preserving and multiplying genetic material. Hence: there may be no variegated seedlings in the 1st generation BUT likeliness of occurrence of variegated seedlings in future generations is massively enhanced.
so, good luck, winwen :)
cheers
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Thanks goofy!
BTW: I have propagated Lilium japonicum f. albomarginatum from seed and the resulting plants are showing the same characteristic albomarginated leaves as their parents.
So let's hope for some albomarginated children!
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I'm excited today! :D ;D My variegated Dactylorhiza fuschii has a flower spike coming up. If I self pollinate it should it come true?
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Mark l will keep my fingers crossed for your Dactylorhiza fuschii.. you deserve some luck, please remember us all when you make your millions.
Angie :)
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Mark
The chances are very slim of the seed producing variegated plants. If your plant is true variegated then it means that the leaves have two different tissues growing on them. The white has had a genetic switch turned off and is not producing the normal green colour. When grown from seed it will more than likely revert back to it's green form I'm afraid. You may get lucky though and is worth a try as it will cost you nothing and you will still end up with at least normal Dacts in the end.
I wish you luck.
David
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Thanks Angie and David
It will be interesting to see if the flowers are variegated also.
I suppose because it's flowering size I can remove the new tuber to make the plant produce another one or two.
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Thanks Angie and David
It will be interesting to see if the flowers are variegated also.
I suppose because it's flowering size I can remove the new tuber to make the plant produce another one or two.
I would as i think it's going to be the fastest way to increase your stock. I'd certainly flask some seed as well though on the off chance some of the seedlings are the same. As I said before, nothing to lose.
David
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I'm updating the thread with another picture now my variegated Dactylorhiza is flowering.
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If you hadn't said variegated Rob I'd have said virused! :-\
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If I had a really good collection of Dactylorhiza I don't think I'd risk it in the garden, but I only have half a dozen which struggle to multiply, so I'll give it some garden room for now.
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Why would the variegation not appear in the flowers? My variegated Geranium pratense has normal flowers
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If you hadn't said variegated Rob I'd have said virused! :-\
I would be saying the same thing,I would be interested in seeing a close up of a leaf.
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Robs variegated dactylorhiza has been around in a number of nurseries for over 30 years. It first appeared in a nursery in South Yorkshire and as far as I understand has only been increased by tuber multiplication. Having got fed up with various judges challenging me I got two plants virus tested and both were negative. If it was a virus all the populations would have died out long since. As a commercial grower with a large population of dactylorhizas I would never keep plants that could cause financial ruin.
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It's back! I now have three. This one is growing in full sun and well ahead of the other two. This plant is the tuber I removed last July. The mother plant reacted by producing two more tubers.
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Amazing what you can do with Photoshop - no, sorry Mark, but couldn't resist it. ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D
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It's back! I now have three.
Excellent news Mark, only a few years to go before we can all get hold of one ;D
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I have decided that when I have three flower stems one will go for micro propping. Then everyone can buy one - evil LOL - but some will get presents
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I have decided that when I have three flower stems one will go for micro propping. Then everyone can buy one - evil LOL - but some will get presents
A wise decision!
I hope you have a good phytolaboratory to do the work.
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I think there would be a lot of interest in this Mark? It's a rare plant!
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I have decided that when I have three flower stems one will go for micro propping. Then everyone can buy one
Good thinking batman ;D ;D ;D
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Someone I met at the Garden House snowdrop day suggested one goes for micro propping
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I just deleted the above photo for much better photos taken just now
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I just deleted the above photo for much better photos taken just now
Mark cherching ££
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I have decided that when I have three flower stems one will go for micro propping. Then everyone can buy one - evil LOL - but some will get presents
You won't make a fortune that way what you need to do is list them one at a time on eBay, exclusitivity is the key to maximise profits. Thus when the I want to have it first brigade (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/neil4768/smileys/loony.gif) have made you rich (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/neil4768/smileys/dollar.gif), then you sell it to the rest, before others are able to clone it and make some money.
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good thinking Neil
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Here is a photo taken today of the variegated Dactylorhiza in my garden.
It has increased slightly in size from last year, and is doing well compared to the other Dactylorhiza in the garden, which don't thrive in the hot sunny conditions.
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Rob don't you increase it by removing the new tuber in July and replanting it and the mother plant? The mother plant then makes one or two smaller tubers
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DFj-0Gl6o[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBOO61Moz5Y[/youtube]
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I have decided that when I have three flower stems one will go for micro propping. Then everyone can buy one - evil LOL - but some will get presents
You won't make a fortune that way what you need to do is list them one at a time on eBay, exclusitivity is the key to maximise profits. Thus when the I want to have it first brigade (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/neil4768/smileys/loony.gif) have made you rich (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/neil4768/smileys/dollar.gif), then you sell it to the rest, before others are able to clone it and make some money.
as I remember, there were some last year on the "platform",
about 20 pounds.........
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I just added a new video to the post above
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My two smallest variegated plants almost died. I noticed just in time. Fingers crossed they will now survive after being soaked for 36 hours in water
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My two smallest variegated plants almost died. I noticed just in time. Fingers crossed they will now survive after being soaked for 36 hours in water
Hope they do Mark.
Angie :)
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Goodness Mark, I would be eyeing them up every day!
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latest photo
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I'm so excited just now.
For the first time since I got the variegated D. fuchsii, 2009, it has produced two tubers for next year. I just lifted it and have removed the tubers. Hopefully it will make another before going dormant. It's in very good condition with no sign of die back.
Should I leave both tubers in the same place or move one elsewhere?
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Thats great Mark, you will soon have huge clumps and make us all jealous.
If I was you I would be giving away one of my tubers to someone else just incase you lose your lovely variegated form, off course thats someone thats knows how to look after them and thats not me for sure. At least that way you can always get it back if you lose yours.
Will be nice to see it in a few years.
Angie :)
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I think it's a good idea to move one elsewhere Mark, then if anything did go wrong in one place the other ought to be ok. Very exciting that it is starting to increase.