Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Mike Ireland on March 28, 2010, 04:30:42 PM
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Grown from seed and flowering now. I am really good at losing labels, any help would be much appreciated.
Mike
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Hi Mike, I would suggest that Fritillaria kotschyana is the most likely ID of your plant from what I can see in the picture.
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Thanks Ian, I'll photograph the inside if possible.
Mike
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Ian, a close up of Fritillaria kotschyanus. Does this help with the ID.
Mike
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Relying on the old Flora of the USSR it appears to be F. kotschyana; trifid style & small nectaries.
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Here's another one needing a name. It is seed grown (1998) and the packet said F. graeca but I'm no Frit expert. The bottom leaves on the stem are in a ring of 4 with those further up the stem in a spiral. The foliage is fairly glaucus.
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Martin your frit belongs to another one of those very confusing taxonomic groups.
I would say it is Fritillaria montana but there is a whole heap of them that I have never been able to completely sort out.
:-[
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I agree with Ian - F. montana group, but which one - who knows?. Certainly not F. graeca.
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Probably not ruthenica from the montana group. The top leaflets aren't curled.
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Thanks all, I feel a new label coming up. F. Sp., aff montana
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This one was posted in the main Frit page. I thought at first F.messanensis, but I am still unsure of its id. The style is 3 divided.
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It's a nice one Simon but certainly very different from what I have as messanensis; far shorter and with a broader, as you say, 'boxier' flower.
F. kotschyana maybe, e.g. like here (http://rareplants.co.uk/product.asp?s=qsmno9497431&strParents=&CAT_ID=0&P_ID=511&strPageHistory=search&numSearchStartRecord=1)?
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This doesn't look like F. messanensis & the leaves seem too narrow for F. kotschyana. The patterning of the flower & the somewhat glaucous appearance of the leaves together with the trifid style might suggest F. graeca. What are the nectaries like Simon?
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Thanks, Ashley- it does look rather like the pic in the PC link.
Thanks, Gerry. I will look at the nectaries tomorrow. Should F.graeca have larger necatries and F.kotschyana smaller ones? It's quite hard to see in the books I have.
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Simon - see reply 03 above for the nectaries of F. kotschyana - quite small & roundish. In F. graeca they are somewhat larger & lanceolate.
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Sorry, Gerry. I posted the follow up pic in the wrong thread. The nectaries are small and circular and apart from the difference in flower shape the inside of the flower looks the same as the one posted by Mike I. earlier in this thread.
I also have this flowering now. I am wondering if it fits in with F.pyrenaica/hispanca?
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Sorry, Gerry. I posted the follow up pic in the wrong thread. The nectaries are small and circular and apart from the difference in flower shape the inside of the flower looks the same as the one posted by Mike I. earlier in this thread.
I also have this flowering now. I am wondering if it fits in with F.pyrenaica/hispanca?
Simon - difficult to see the nectaries in this pic but your description is consistent with F. kotschyana. The reason I hesitated is the leaves. As I know it F. kotschyana has quite broad, shiny green leaves. Your plant seems to have quite narrow & somewhat glaucous leaves. These frits can be hell to identify without knowing the provenance.
Sorry, I'm not familiar with F. pyrenaica/hispanica.
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Hello from Austria!
Can somebody help and identify this Frit for me please
Best wishes
Herbert
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Herbert - It would be helpful to see the entire plant & the inside of the flower. From what is visible in your photo I would guess either F. tuntasia or F. obliqua (which are possibly the same thing).
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I like the pattern on the inside of this Fritillaria but I don't know what name to put on the label.
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Gunilla - the presence of a whorl of 3 leaves below the flower & the fairly broad leaves suggests F. thessala (= F. graeca subsp. thessala), a very variable plant. There are other possibilities but I think this is the most likely. Where did it come from?
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Sorry Gerry, I don't know where it comes from originally. I found it on a plant market many years ago and it has grown outside in my garden since then.
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Gunilla
I have another suggestion for the identity of your Fritillaria - it is F. tubiformis.
It is always difficult to get any idea of scale from a picture so it is never so easy to id a plant from a picture as it is when you are standing in front of it.
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I've had this Frit for years, came to me incorrectly identified as an American species. Any idea about what it could be?
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Mark
It looks like Fritillaria pontica, check and see if it has dark round nectaries that will confirm it.
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Gunilla
I have another suggestion for the identity of your Fritillaria - it is F. tubiformis.
It is always difficult to get any idea of scale from a picture so it is never so easy to id a plant from a picture as it is when you are standing in front of it.
I must admit I hadn't thought of F. tubiformis as a possibility. I agree the flowers seem consistent with this sp. but the leaves? As I know it F. tubiformis has glaucous or very glaucous leaves; this also how Martyn Rix describes it in Flora Europaea. The leaves on Gunilla's plant seem to be green. Looking again I'm no longer convinced by my suggestion of F. thessala so, in brief, I don't know.
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Mark
It looks like Fritillaria pontica, check and see if it has dark round nectaries that will confirm it.
This plant seems to be lightly tessellated so my guess would be F. thessala. If so, the nectaries will be ovate to ovate-lanceolate.
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I ws going to suggest thessala as I've never seen tesselation on pontica but when the BD has spoken......one tends to keep one's own mouth closed. ::)
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I ws going to suggest thessala as I've never seen tesselation on pontica but when the BD has spoken......one tends to keep one's own mouth closed. ::)
From Flora Europaea (Rix):
F. pontica - "perianth......segments green, often tinged with reddish-brown but not tessellated".
F. graeca subsp. thessala (= F. thessala) - "perianth-segments.....green, usually lightly tessellated".
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Thanks Gerry and Ian. The colour of the leaves are just like Galanthus elwesii leaves. In the photo below I have added a Fritillaria meleagris for size comparison.
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Thanks Gerry and Ian. The colour of the leaves are just like Galanthus elwesii leaves. In the photo below I have added a Fritillaria meleagris for size comparison.
That's helpful Gunilla. I now think Ian is right - F. tubiformis.
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I was going to suggest thessala as I've never seen tesselation on pontica but when the BD has spoken......one tends to keep one's own mouth closed. Roll Eyes
Oh Lesley the BD is as good as getting it wrong as any one.
Gerry and Lesley, I would agree that thessala is a possibility as well, I have seen some pontica seedlings where it is difficult to decide where 'tinged with reddish brown' stops and 'tesselation' begins. The necteries well tell for sure.
Gunilla From the scale picture I am still sure that youir plant is F. tubiformis.
check out these pictures from bulb log 16
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Apr211271856028BULB_LOG__16.pdf
and there are more in bulb log 17.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Apr211271856028BULB_LOG__16.pdf
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Mark
It looks like Fritillaria pontica, check and see if it has dark round nectaries that will confirm it.
This plant seems to be lightly tessellated so my guess would be F. thessala. If so, the nectaries will be ovate to ovate-lanceolate.
It looks like my thessala , a very vigorous species in the garden , Otto.
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Thanks everyone, it seems that I probably have F. thessala, glad to have a name on it (even if tentative), after all these years. I include two cut-away views of the flower to show the nectaries.
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Thanks everyone, it seems that I probably have F. thessala, glad to have a name on it (even if tentative), after all these years. I include two cut-away views of the flower to show the nectaries.
The ovate nectaries seem consistent with F. thessala. I think in F. pontica they are usually more definitely circular. Nice photos!
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Thanks everyone, it seems that I probably have F. thessala, glad to have a name on it (even if tentative), after all these years. I include two cut-away views of the flower to show the nectaries.
The ovate nectaries seem consistent with F. thessala. I think in F. pontica they are usually more definitely circular. Nice photos!
Thanks Gerry, glad there wasn't too much dirt under my fingernails in those shots ;D
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Could anyone help with the I/D for this fritillaria. Approx 6 - 8 inches tall. The stem leaves are opposite & narrow if this helps.
Mike
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Mike - my first thought, based on flower colour, was F. drenovskii but I have never seen one with such flared flowers before - they are usually fairly narrow. My second thought, based on the flared flower coupled with the yellow tips to the tepals, was F. rhodokanakis but my (limited) experience of this is of a much darker flower colour. The flower colour is also reminiscent of some forms of F. messanensis subsp. gracilis but the flaring seems inconsistent with this.The infinitely variable F. pinardii might be a possibility but the narrow leaves suggest not. So, I remain puzzled & there are no doubt possibilities I haven't thought of. I'd be interested to see the opinions of others. It would be useful to have some idea of scale - how large is the flower (it looks quite small) - & what does it look like inside?
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Hi! In answer to your query, the flower was about 2 cm long. the height (in pot) was about 11 inches with two pairs of alternate narrow, (4mm) leaves and three just below the flower.
Mike put the query up on my behalf and I'll put 2 more images up at the weekend if they will help.
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Tony - a good image of the inside of the flower would be helpful. Was the flower flared from the start or did it develop as it aged? Do you know where the plant came from? The whorl of 3 leaves below the flower together with the colour suggests F. messanensis subsp. gracilis, though the flower is on the small side for this sp. I wonder whether the flower is malformed? Is this the first flowering?