Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Wim de Goede on March 14, 2010, 10:20:04 AM
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Hello There,
Let me introduce my self, I am Wim de Goede,wih my wife Hanny and son Mark run we a Nursery named Kwekerij De Schullhorn in the North-West part of the Netherlands.
We are specialised in growing Miscellaneous bulbs (see our Website www.kwekerijdeschullhorn.nl ) (Edited to correct typo)
We do two flowershows per year, one local show mostly end of Februari begin March and one in Keukenhof end of April and sometimes we show somethings on the KAVB in Lisse.
The show last week in Breezand we had 55 variety on our diplay, I will show 10 of them, when you are intrested I can show them all.
Please let me know.
Wim
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Hello Wim, welcome to the forum. I look forward to your photos and hearsing about plants/bulbs you grow
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Welcome to the forum Wim, your url is acutally
http://www.kwekerijdeschullhorn.nl
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Hi, Wim...I have edited your post to show the correct url
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Here some other pictures, I thought I had send 10 photo's so I think I did something wrong and tray it again
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Wim, you need to click on the Browse- (more attachments) " button each time to load up to ten pictures per post.
Cheers,
Maggi
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I hope it is O K now
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Maggi thank you very much for the information,I think I got it
Photo's are;
Anemone blanda
,, ,, ,, ,, Radar
Colchicum triphylum
Corydalis solida Beth Evans
,, ,, ,, ,,G P Baker
Crocus chry. Ard Schenk
,, ,, Januari Gold
Fritillaria biflora
,, ,, carica
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Yeah, you got it , Wim! Great to see your photos!
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Welcome Wim to you and your family. Thanks for posting great looking and interesting plants - are they all from your nursery?
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A warm welcome Wim and Hanny and Mark. It's great to have yet another bulb grower on the Form to feed our addiction. ;D Your bulbs are beautiful, especially the Corydalis forms.
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Here some more photo's
Fritillaria hermonis var. amana
,, ,, meleagris
,, ,, meleagris Alba
,, ,, minuta
,, ,, reuteri
,, ,, whittallii
,, ,, acmopetala
,, ,, bucharica No-5
,, ,, Golden Flag
,, ,, No GK-4
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The following 10
Fritillaria olivieri
pinardii Ole Sonderhouse
pontica
pudica Giant
stenanthera
tunbergii
Whittallii "Greenlight"
aurea Robust form
crassifolia var. Kurdica "Wisley Form"
elwesii
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Hi Whim, welcome. You have shown us some lovely plants . Thanks for posting them and looking forward to see more.
Angie :)
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Here 10 more
Fritillaria pudica "Fragrance"
Galanthus No G-01-07
Ipheion Alberto Castillo
,, ,, Jessie
,, ,, uniflorum Charlotte Bishop
Iris Halkis
,, No 87-BB-1
,, No 87-DQ-1
,, Palm Spring
,, Sheila Ann Germaney
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Hi Wim,
love the two McMurtrie hybrids. Let us know when you are putting them up for sale.
Groeten
Wim
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Fritillaria pudica "Fragrance"
Hello Wim, I'm curious about Fritillaria pudica 'Fragrance". I found the following link at RarePlant.co.uk, and see that it is a recent selection from the wild. The species is typically fragrant. In your photo, the flower appears doubled, whereas in the RarePlants view it is not. Is the flower in your picture a double?
http://shop.rareplants.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=525&strPageHistory=related
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Dear Mark,
I fond this Frit. pudica Fragrance with Wayne Roderick in 1983 in the corner of Callefornia/ Nevada/ Oregon, on a very wet place at that moment but I think in the summer it will be very dry, it is not dubble, it was thust a good form.
When you need more information ,please let me know
Wim
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The following 10 from the show
Iris White Caucasus
,, Katharine Hodgkin
Muscari Baby's Breath
,, ,, Gul Delight
,, ,, Peppermint
Narcis Diamond Ring
,, ,, Idol
,, ,, minor Douglas Bank
,, ,, romieuxii
,, ,, watieri
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Lovely bulbs Wim. Is the Iris White Caucasus what is sometimes sold (not here, alas) as white winogradowii?
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Dear Ragged,
Thank you for your replay, yes we grow everything by our self ,I think you should viset our website www.kwekerijdeschullhorn.nl that give you all the information
Wim
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I send here by the last photo's of the items we had on the show in Breezand and also a photo of our diplay on the show, all things we had on the show we grow by our self.
Pleione formosana
Scilla Indra
,, ,, litardieri
Tecophilaea cyanocrocus leightlinii
,, ,, cyanocrocus
,, ,, cyanocrocus Violacea
Tulipa humilus Lilliput
Our display
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Wim,
wonderful display. A dream for every bulbfan. Love the blue of the Tecophilaea.
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Just wanted to say how good your website is to negotiate with excellent photographs and information of some really lovely and unusual bulbs - I shall revisit it to find out more - the Scilla and Fritillaria sections are wonderful, thank you Wim :)
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Thank you Ragged for the complement, My daughter-in-law made the web-shop and also she keep it up to date , yes I think she earns a complement.
wim
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I like the scrolling photos.
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I like the plants-very "droolable" ;D
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Dear Lesley,
I made a replay Fryday but I think I did something wrong so here again, White Caucasus is fond by Alan McMurtrie and because we grow Iris winogradowii as well ,I can tel you it is total differant , the hole plant but also the shape of the flower and the bulbs are differant.
It is the first year that we offer it and then in small qantities ( see our wepshop) www.bulbs-bollen.nl
When you need more information please let me know
wim
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Hi wim,
You ashed when the two hybrids of Alan are for sale, well I think it will take a couple of years because we will have first the breeders Right before selling and that will take some years.
I will let you know.
Wim
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Uli thank you fo your replay, it was a nice diplay and a hel of a jop to get them all inflower on the same time
Wim
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H i Mark and David I am clad you anjoyed the photo's and thanks for your replay
Wm
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Wim,
is there a sale list for the bulbs available at a special time of the year?
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Wim,
is there a sale list for the bulbs available at a special time of the year?
Hi Uli,
When it is for prived you can viset our web-shop ( www.bulbs-bollen.nl) but when it is for commersial trade then you better go to our website and ask for our commersial list .
Wim
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Wim,
thanks a lot. This was the side I'm looking for. ;)
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Atleast the Spring came, as you see we grow enerything in the open.
Here some poto's in the field
A view of the field where we grow the specialties
Stok Iris Halkis
,, ,, Sheila Ann Germaney
,, ,, Katharine Hodgkin
Crocus chr. Ard Schenk
Narcis romieuxii
Narcis asturiensis
Stenbergia candida
Ranunculus kochii
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Great pictures Wim, it is astonishing to see things grown on that scale. There has been a lot of talk on other threads about Iris Katharine Hodgkin with blue streaks on the standard petals ? due to virus. Do you find that a problem with your stock?
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Great views of your fields Wim, what a sight.
Lovely to see so many Srernbergia candidain one place.
Do you lift the Narcissus romieuxii in the summer or do they stay planted all year round?
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Lovely bulbs Wim. Is the Iris White Caucasus what is sometimes sold (not here, alas) as white winogradowii?
No, Lesley,
WHITE CAUCASUS is selection of wild Iris reticulata from Caucasus mountains selected by Alan McMurtrie and later forwarded to Wim de Goede for increasing. I have very similar one specially searched for me by Zhirair in mountains of Armenia, but stock still is very small.
Winogradowii Alba most liklely is some of winogradowii hybrids, not pure winogradowii, but well growing with me aoutside and in greenhouse. I'm offering it in my catalogue.
Janis
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Wim - I've just seen this. The field of Sternbergia candida is amazing. Do you lift the bulbs during the summer?
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I find that Sternbergia lutea needs great summer heat to induce autumn flowering, maybe more heat than I can supply out in the garden. Is this also true of S. candida? because I had not imagined Holland as being particularly warm in summeer - not like Greece, for instance - yet obviously you have no trouble flowering this beautiful species.
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Great pictures Wim, it is astonishing to see things grown on that scale. There has been a lot of talk on other threads about Iris Katharine Hodgkin with blue streaks on the standard petals ? due to virus. Do you find that a problem with your stock?
Gail the blue streaks on the standerd of Katharine Hodgkin is not virus, it seems to come from Mijt a very smal insect , we tread the bulbs with Actellic when we stor them and that help a lot
Wim
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Great views of your fields Wim, what a sight.
Lovely to see so many Srernbergia candidain one place.
Do you lift the Narcissus romieuxii in the summer or do they stay planted all year round?
We lift the bulbs every year Ian because we have to rotate and we store the Narsis romieuxii by 20 C also the Sternbergia candida and we also give them a warm water treadment
wim
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Great pictures Wim, it is astonishing to see things grown on that scale. There has been a lot of talk on other threads about Iris Katharine Hodgkin with blue streaks on the standard petals ? due to virus. Do you find that a problem with your stock?
Gail the blue streaks on the standerd of Katharine Hodgkin is not virus, it seems to come from Mijt a very smal insect , we tread the bulbs with Actellic when we stor them and that help a lot
Wim
It is virus, plants were checked in laboratory!
Janis
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Great views of your fields Wim, what a sight.
Lovely to see so many Srernbergia candidain one place.
Do you lift the Narcissus romieuxii in the summer or do they stay planted all year round?
We lift the bulbs every year Ian because we have to rotate and we store the Narsis romieuxii by 20 C also the Sternbergia candida and we also give them a warm water treadment
wim
Here is much colder than in Holland but before I built up my first greenhouse I grew for years Sternbergia candida outside and it well set seeds. In some winters stock suffered, but I never lost it completely, allways number of bulbs were replaced by fresh seedlings (sawn outside) and natural splitting. Mother plants were replanted annually. Of course in greenhouse it grow far better.
Janis
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Lovely bulbs Wim. Is the Iris White Caucasus what is sometimes sold (not here, alas) as white winogradowii?
No, Lesley,
WHITE CAUCASUS is selection of wild Iris reticulata from Caucasus mountains selected by Alan McMurtrie and later forwarded to Wim de Goede for increasing. I have very similar one specially searched for me by Zhirair in mountains of Armenia, but stock still is very small.
Winogradowii Alba most liklely is some of winogradowii hybrids, not pure winogradowii, but well growing with me aoutside and in greenhouse. I'm offering it in my catalogue.
Janis
Thank you Janis for the explanation , I did know something about it but not for sure
.
Wim
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I find that Sternbergia lutea needs great summer heat to induce autumn flowering, maybe more heat than I can supply out in the garden. Is this also true of S. candida? because I had not imagined Holland as being particularly warm in summeer - not like Greece, for instance - yet obviously you have no trouble flowering this beautiful species.
Lesley as I mention to Ian , we lift the bulbs every year and store them by 20-22 C til October and then plant them again but we have the two species in the rockgarden as wel and they flower every year very wel.
What they need is very good suny place and plant them not to deep, (close to surface)
Wim
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Thanks for that note Wim. I have a few new Sternbergia lutea to plant today and will plant them "high" with their necks above ground level. (They are going outside, not into a pot.) This is interesting because in the past I have had very few flowers off Muscari muscarimia and its close relatives but last winter I bought 3 pots (12 bulbs) of forced M. muscarimia and the total flower stems from the 12 bulbs came to 38! It was only after all the foliage had died down that I realized the bulbs were half out of the pots, well above the surface. I've planted them out now, with their tops well up and hope to have better flowering than I've had in the past.
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Thanks for that note Wim. I have a few new Sternbergia lutea to plant today and will plant them "high" with their necks above ground level. (They are going outside, not into a pot.) This is interesting because in the past I have had very few flowers off Muscari muscarimia and its close relatives but last winter I bought 3 pots (12 bulbs) of forced M. muscarimia and the total flower stems from the 12 bulbs came to 38! It was only after all the foliage had died down that I realized the bulbs were half out of the pots, well above the surface. I've planted them out now, with their tops well up and hope to have better flowering than I've had in the past.
No, no Lesley. Don't plant so shallow!!!! I'm covering top of all my Sternbergia bulbs at least with 5 cm of soil! I can't grow those which makes leaves in autum outside as leaves are killed by winter frosts. Even in greenhouse they are slightly damaged, more on lutea, less on others. Only candida and fischeriana I can grow in open garden as they forms leaves in spring, but safer is in greenhouse. Planting with necks at soil level is far too shallow. In nature they are even deeper - i COLLECTED BULBS FROM 10-15-20 CM DEPTH!
Janis
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Planting depth seems a dilemma.As Janis says they are quite deep in the wild but grow in areas that are sunbaked in summer(45c+ at times). They seem to need this heat to flower and in our climate it does not get hot enough to flower them even with surface planting. I grow them in pots never having produced a flower in the garden.
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I grow all Sternbergias (autum & spring species) permanently planted out in a covered bulb frame. I presume that under these conditions they find their own depth which is with the neck about 2-3 cm under the surface. After a good summer they flower well.
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Sternbergia candida today. I agree - the warm summrer is esential for sternbergias but candida don't need baking.
Janis
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That's a lovely picture Janis - on my screen it looks almost 3-dimensional, as if I could reach out and pick the flowers!
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To day we got a Gold Medal for this collection Irissen but I am sorry for sme very bet photo's
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Congratulations on the gold medal Wim! The select forms of Katharine Hodgkin and Sheila Ann Germany - are those sports that have arisen with you?
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Gail I think Katharine, Sheila Ann Germanay and Frank Elder are from the same seed pod
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Thank you Janis, and others, the notes about too shallow planting of my Sternbergia lutea. I DID plant them yesterday but will replant them today. At least I can see where I put them exactly, with their necks above the surface. ;D
My mother used to grow this in a garden with similar climate to mine (frosts to only about -5C) and it flowered well and regularly. I don't remember frost damage to the leaves.
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I would guess that the fact that these bulbs grow at considerable depths in the wild serves as protection against excessive heat &/or cold. I cannot imagine that they would experience such conditions in either New Zealand or the South of England. While it it may be useful to know how plants grow in the wild I don't think it is necessarily a good idea to attempt to replicate these conditions in cultivation. Not least because it is unlikely that one can replicate all the conditions.
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Congratulations on the gold medal Wim! The select forms of Katharine Hodgkin and Sheila Ann Germany - are those sports that have arisen with you?
Thank you Gail, yes we fond them a couple of years ago,the Sheila Ann Germaney selection is white with the same fals as Sheila Ann and the Katharine Hodgkin form is pale yellow a nice colour.
Wim
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I like to show you some stoks of variety who are in bloom now
Anemone blanda
Chionodoxa lucilaea Alba
Fritillaria amana Gokzun Gold
,, ,, reuteri
Narcis Jeannine
,, ,, Cordubensis
,, ,, minor Douglas Bank
Scilla Indra
Pleione formosana
Tulipa schrenkii
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Here some more photo's of bulbs who are in flower
Anemone blanda Radar
Tecophilaea cyanocrocus
Leightlinii
Violacea
Storm cloud
Puschkinia Super form
Plantmaterial of tissue culture,scaling Lily and seed of Calochortus
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Here some more varities who are in bloom yet
Narcis watieri
cordubensis
calcicola
Stocken
Fritillaria crassifolia var. Kurdica Mutant
pinardii
sibthorpiana
elwesii
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Here some more photo's of bulbs who are in flower
Tecophilaea cyanocrocus
Leightlinii
Violacea
Storm cloud
These Tecophilaeas are incredible ~ are they grown out in the fields all year, & then mulched against the frost in winter? Or are the corms planted out in spring?
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Here some more photo's of bulbs who are in flower
Tecophilaea cyanocrocus
Leightlinii
Violacea
Storm cloud
These Tecophilaeas are incredible ~ are they grown out in the fields all year, & then mulched against the frost in winter? Or are the corms planted out in spring?
Hi Malcolm we plant all the bulbs in the Autumn in the open field and also the Tecophilaea, in Holland they are hardy but what we do in the field we cover them with agril from the time they just come above the grond till they are in bloom to protect them against the night frost but I can tell that they are in my garden for 5 year without problems , so I think in Holland they are hardy.
Wim
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Here some photo's of Muscari we showed at CNB in Lisse
Muscari Peppermint
Venus
Maxabel
Baby's Breath
Chimcan
Gul Delight
Peppermint in Keukenhof
Arum creticum
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Wim,
impressive muscaris. I visited Keukenhof last year - an absolute highlight for every flower bulbs lover 8)
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Wim,
impressive muscaris. I visited Keukenhof last year - an absolute highlight for every flower bulbs lover 8)
Super muscaris.... the "river" of 'Peppermint' is lovely .
My friend was meant to be flying to the Netherlands to visit Keukenhof the other week.... that was the time of the airspace ban because of the Icelandic volcano. :P :'( She was very disappointed to miss out on her trip.
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Beautiful Wim! I'm especially interested in Gul Delight. Can you tell me its story? Is it available commercially?
ALSO very interesting to see how they are staged for a show. Thank you.
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Wim,
impressive muscaris. I visited Keukenhof last year - an absolute highlight for every flower bulbs lover 8)
Thank you for your reply Armin, when you visite Holland again you are most welkom to visite us it is not far from Keukenhof (almost a hour drive)
Wim
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Wim,
impressive muscaris. I visited Keukenhof last year - an absolute highlight for every flower bulbs lover 8)
Super muscaris.... the "river" of 'Peppermint' is lovely .
My friend was meant to be flying to the Netherlands to visit Keukenhof the other week.... that was the time of the airspace ban because of the Icelandic volcano. :P :'( She was very disappointed to miss out on her trip.
Thank for your reply Maggi and sorry for your friend because the Keukenhof is very beautyfull at the moment, so maybe next year
Wim
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Beautiful Wim! I'm especially interested in Gul Delight. Can you tell me its story? Is it available commercially?
ALSO very interesting to see how they are staged for a show. Thank you.
Thank you Carlo, the story of Muscari Gul Delight is , I got from Rannveig Wallis a pot of seedlings of Muscari Gul and there was some variation in it , so I selected one and put that in Tissue Culture and grew that on for a couple of year till last year we wanted to registrate and we needed a name, so we have that tolk it over with Rob and Rannveig and came to this name.
It is availeble on our webshop www.bulbs-bollen.nl next year
Wim
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Wim,
impressive muscaris. I visited Keukenhof last year - an absolute highlight for every flower bulbs lover 8)
Thank you for your reply Armin, when you visite Holland again you are most welkom to visite us it is not far from Keukenhof (almost a hour drive)
Wim
Wim,
thank you for the kind offer. If I have the opportunity to visit Holland again I'll be very glad to visit your nursery and to meet you personally. ;) :D
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The photo's are not so good but still I like to show you our display on Keukenhof
Our display
Iris Halkis
Fritillaria reuteri
Ipheion Alberto Castillo
Pleione formosana
Ipheion Jessie
Narcis Diamond Ring
+
Iris Katharine Hodgkin
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Here some photo's of varities who are in flower yet
Narcis Chiva
calcicola smal form
Little Flick
triandrus x Hybrid I
triandrus x Hybrid II
Arum creticum Stock
Scilla reverchonii
Muscari Frost
Tulipa cretica
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They are magnificent Wim, especially the Arum creticum, so many blooms, and everything so neat and tidy. My ideal of what a nursery SHOUD be, but never is - except yours. :)
Did you have to lie on your tummy to take the picture of 'Little Flick?' ::)
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They are magnificent Wim, especially the Arum creticum, so many blooms, and everything so neat and tidy. My ideal of what a nursery SHOUD be, but never is - except yours. :)
Did you have to lie on your tummy to take the picture of 'Little Flick?' ::)
Thank you Lesley, yes I lie on my tummy it is so small but very nice
Wim
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These where good for a Gold Medal on the KAVB judging in Lisse Monday 17 May
Narcis Little Flick
Diamond Ring
calcicola Small Form
Chiva
Ipheion Alberto Castillo
Jessie
unflorum Charlotte Bishop
Tulipa bakeri Lilac Wonder
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This is what is in flower at the moment
Allium Eos
Dichelostemma No B-01-01-08 is a selection of Dichelostemma capitatum
Hyachinthiodes algeriensis
Muscari argaei Alba
Muscari microtonum
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This is what is in flower at the moment
Allium Eos
Dichelostemma No B-01-01-08 is a selection of Dichelostemma capitatum
Hyachinthiodes algeriensis
Muscari argaei Alba
Muscari microtonum
Wim, what can you tell me about Allium 'Eos'?
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This is what is in flower at the moment
Allium Eos
Dichelostemma No B-01-01-08 is a selection of Dichelostemma capitatum
Hyachinthiodes algeriensis
Muscari argaei Alba
Muscari microtonum
Wim, what can you tell me about Allium 'Eos'?
Hi Mark,
I made a mistake with the name, it is not Allium Eos but Allium Camelion, I got this allium from Wayne Roderick years ago it is American native I think.
I give the name Camelion because it chance from collor white to pink,it is about25 - 30 cm high and it has hairy leaves.
I hope I have informed you enough.
Wim
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This is what is in flower at the moment
Allium Eos
Wim, what can you tell me about Allium 'Eos'?
Hi Mark,
I made a mistake with the name, it is not Allium Eos but Allium Camelion, I got this allium from Wayne Roderick years ago it is American native I think. I give the name Camelion because it chance from collor white to pink,it is about25 - 30 cm high and it has hairy leaves.
I hope I have informed you enough.
Wim
Thanks Wim, but actually it raises more questions. First, the spelling seems strange; probably should be "Chameleon" for the lizard that can change its skin color. Second, I googled and googled, using their advanced search to exclude other plants named "Chameleon" such as Euphorbia, Houttuynia, Arum, and others, but can find no reference to a Allium 'Chameleon'... the only thing I can find is to use your spelling of "Camelion", but then the links are just to your records. The fact the leaves are hairy is perplexing, if indeed the named plant is a cultivar of an American native. What native species could it be that has hairy leaves? Do you have any close-up photos? Any photos of the hairy leaves? Any photos of the bulbs?
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This is what is in flower at the moment
Allium Eos
Wim, what can you tell me about Allium 'Eos'?
Hi Mark,
I made a mistake with the name, it is not Allium Eos but Allium Camelion, I got this allium from Wayne Roderick years ago it is American native I think. I give the name Camelion because it chance from collor white to pink,it is about25 - 30 cm high and it has hairy leaves.
I hope I have informed you enough.
Wim
Thanks Wim, but actually it raises more questions. First, the spelling seems strange; probably should be "Chameleon" for the lizard that can change its skin color. Second, I googled and googled, using their advanced search to exclude other plants named "Chameleon" such as Euphorbia, Houttuynia, Arum, and others, but can find no reference to a Allium 'Chameleon'... the only thing I can find is to use your spelling of "Camelion", but then the links are just to your records. The fact the leaves are hairy is perplexing, if indeed the named plant is a cultivar of an American native. What native species could it be that has hairy leaves? Do you have any close-up photos? Any photos of the hairy leaves? Any photos of the bulbs?
Hi Mark,
Here two picture of the leave of Allium Cameleon,as you see it is hairy on the edge of the leave.
Here some more information of this allium,it was regetrated in 2008 for the Nomenclature and in 2009 it was regetrated at the Board for Plant varieties under the name Allium Cameleon.
Cameleon is written in France but means the same as Chameleon in Englisch.
This is all the information I have but I see now that I wrote Cameleon with a i but that is wrong sorry.
Wim
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Hi Mark,
Here two picture of the leave of Allium Cameleon,as you see it is hairy on the edge of the leave.
Here some more information of this allium,it was regetrated in 2008 for the Nomenclature and in 2009 it was regetrated at the Board for Plant varieties under the name Allium Cameleon.
Cameleon is written in France but means the same as Chameleon in Englisch.
This is all the information I have but I see now that I wrote Cameleon with a i but that is wrong sorry.
Wim
Thanks Wim, it still remains a puzzle. I did find a link to a grower in the Netherlands that lists both Allium Cameleon and Allium Eros... both being trademark names versus regular cultivar names. The fact the plant has hairy leaf margins adds to the mystery, as I do not know of any American native species that matches that characteristic. There is some resemblance to Allium unifolium, although that species does not have hairy leaf margins. My guess is, that Allium Cameleon® is not derived from an American native allium species.
Here are the links I found:
http://www.bulbs-bollen.nl/index.php?item=allium&action=page&group_id=9&lang=EN
Allium Cameleon®
http://www.bulbs-bollen.nl/index.php?item=allium-cameleon_reg_--per-st__a-piece&action=article&group_id=9&aid=13&lang=EN
time of flowering: June-July
height: 25-30 cm
Allium Eros®
time of flowering: June-July
height: 30-35 cm
Question, when plants are registered for Trademark, doesn't the actual species need to be identified as part of the registration informatiion, so that if different color forms are selected and named there isn't confusion and chaos, but some semblance of taxonomic order and correctness? Maybe I'm being naive.
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Hi Mark,
Here two picture of the leave of Allium Cameleon,as you see it is hairy on the edge of the leave.
Here some more information of this allium,it was regetrated in 2008 for the Nomenclature and in 2009 it was regetrated at the Board for Plant varieties under the name Allium Cameleon.
Cameleon is written in France but means the same as Chameleon in Englisch.
This is all the information I have but I see now that I wrote Cameleon with a i but that is wrong sorry.
Wim
Thanks Wim, it still remains a puzzle. I did find a link to a grower in the Netherlands that lists both Allium Cameleon and Allium Eros... both being trademark names versus regular cultivar names. The fact the plant has hairy leaf margins adds to the mystery, as I do not know of any American native species that matches that characteristic. There is some resemblance to Allium unifolium, although that species does not have hairy leaf margins. My guess is, that Allium Cameleon® is not derived from an American native allium species.
Here are the links I found:
http://www.bulbs-bollen.nl/index.php?item=allium&action=page&group_id=9&lang=EN
Allium Cameleon®
http://www.bulbs-bollen.nl/index.php?item=allium-cameleon_reg_--per-st__a-piece&action=article&group_id=9&aid=13&lang=EN
time of flowering: June-July
height: 25-30 cm
Allium Eros®
time of flowering: June-July
height: 30-35 cm
Question, when plants are registered for Trademark, doesn't the actual species need to be identified as part of the registration informatiion, so that if different color forms are selected and named there isn't confusion and chaos, but some semblance of taxonomic order and correctness? Maybe I'm being naive.
Mark , www.bulbs-bollen.nl is our webshop so it not strang you saw it on that site and what about the origin, we can not ask Wayne anymore but it is almost for sure that they are American native.
Wim
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Mark , www.bulbs-bollen.nl is our webshop so it not strang you saw it on that site and what about the origin, we can not ask Wayne anymore but it is almost for sure that they are American native.
Wim
The problem is, there are no American native species with hairy leaves that I am aware of, so the plant you show with hairy leaves has to be from elsewhere. Possibly it was a plant grown by Wayne Roderick, as you say we can't ask him anymore, but surely he grew non-American-native plants too, and surely there are other ways to find out from the living what one is actually growing. If you still believe it is an American species, please tell us which species.
It is my opinion, of which I'm 99% sure, that Allium Cameleon® is not an American native species. The mystery remains as to what it really is.
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Some more picture of bulbs who are in flower yet.
Allium falcifolium
Hyacinthoides vincentina
Nectaroscordum Tripedale
Ornithogalum reverchonii
Scilla litardieri
Triteleia ixiodes Starlight
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Here I am again, I like to show you 5 item who are in flower yet
Dichelostemma Pink Diamond a wild hybrid between D, ida-maia x D, conjustum that is what people tell ??
,, ,, ida-maia
Muscari comosum White form
Allium nigrum Pink form from Creta
Muscari massayanum
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The winner there Wim, MUST be Muscari massayanum. :D
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The winner there Wim, MUST be Muscari massayanum. :D
Yes Lesley it is a wonderfull plant but not easy to grow, special it increase very slow but still we keep traying
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I show you a better form of Ixia panaculata what we have named Ixia Eos and I show you Albuca minima I think the smalest Albuca
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I will tray again with the Ixia
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That's a delightful little Albuca Wim, very like what I have as Albuca humilis. Originally it came to me as Albuca species, Basutoland. It has a lovely, quite heavy almond paste scent. Is this one scented too?
A fabulous Ixia, especially in such quantity. Luit showed it recently at the Lisse Flower Show and I thought then it was very good.
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Yes Leley our Albuca humilis is also fragrance I got it from Gerben Tjeersma from the botanical garden gotenborg, so I think we have the same Albuca
Wim
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A Gold Medal for this collection
1 Collection; Ixia panaculata Eos; Dichelostemma No D-01-01-08;Muscari Venus; Mascari Maxabel; Narcis assoanus; N Little Flick; N No N-01-01-08
2 In the middle Narcis No N-01-01-08 (triandrus x Hybrid)
Left ,, ,, Little Flick
Right ,, ,, assoanus
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Very nice Wim.
Your Narcissus N-01-01-08 looks a lot like N. 'Pipit' to me. I like 'Little Flick'
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Are all of the Narcissus leaves cut off? The potted specimens have an initial stark appearance to them, then I realized there was no foliage.
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Are all of the Narcissus leaves cut off? The potted specimens have an initial stark appearance to them, then I realized there was no foliage.
The pots are of cut blooms, MacMark, not plants .
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Are all of the Narcissus leaves cut off? The potted specimens have an initial stark appearance to them, then I realized there was no foliage.
The pots are of cut blooms, MacMark, not plants .
Oh, my mistake, I thought it was similar to the practice with some show plants I've seen of Allium species, where the leaves are totally cut off leaving just the flower stems. I see that my name is of Scottish origin now ;)
By the way Wim, my plants of Allium Cameleon are budded. I shared a couple bulbs with another Allium aficionado, so that we can both try to determine what is the underlying species with this cultivar.
McMark
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A typo, McMark, though I may have been subliminally affected by all the political hoo haa that surrounds us in the wake of Thursday's elections ;D;)
We do think of you, though, as one of us! ;)
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Thank you Maggi for explaning how we show the bulbs flowers in Spring, yes Mark Allium Cameleon is almost in flower I think I will show them coming Monday in Lisse
Wim
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Wim, my bulbs of Allium 'Cameleon' are blooming. My opinion was, and remains the same, this cannot possibly be an American species (no North American species has hairy leaves), it is most certainly a member of the Molium section of Allium, mostly centered around Mediterranean areas. As usual, it is possible to "narrow the field" to a few possibilities, but I do believe the species is Allium longanum Pampanini, a species closely related to A. roseum, subhirsutum, neapolitanum, and trifoliatum. The species is native to North Africa (Libya to Egypt), Crete and the Cyclades. It has 3-4 clasping basal leaves up to 20 mm wide, with hairs along the leaf margins and the leaves hirsute near the base.
In my plants, the flower color is white with pink midveins, taking on a pinkish tone when maturing, not nearly as colorful looking as in your photo back 1 page in this thread (the photo labeled as Allium Eos).
A few photos of my plant blooming now, and a line drawing from "A Revision of the Genus Allium L. (Liliaceae) in Africa by Brigitta E. De Wilde-Duyfjes, dept of plant taxonomy , Agricultural University, Wageningen, The Netherlands.
It should be noted that this species is rarely pictured, thus difficult to find much to reference the species, but the 237-page reference noted above is outstanding for covering Allium in North Africa (which by proxy and natural distributional range, covers many Mediterranean species, with excellent line drawings and synonymy on each).
Update: searching for an ID determination and going through keys again, now with more mature plants in bloom, going back and forth between the A. longanum & A. trifoliatum possibities, I have arrived at my final word on this: It is Allium trifoliatum.
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Thank you Mark for your explenation and maybe you are ride but we have the growing rides on it as A Cameleon and we already market on that name and we will continion do that that.
Wim
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Thank you Mark for your explenation and maybe you are ride but we have the growing rides on it as A Cameleon and we already market on that name and we will continion do that that.
Wim
That's fine, I was not questioning the cultivar name... just trying to discover what the "underlying" species is. Knowing that the species is A. longanum (or the more distant possibility of it being A. trifoliatum) will give customers and gardeners interested in growing this selection, some clues as to hardiness and cultivation. I'm still waiting for my flowering plants to turn as deep pink as in your photos, but if it stays more white here, then maybe the climate is making a difference.
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Mark the deep pink is not A. Cameleon but A. Eros I though I told you before because I made a mistake with lable, sorry
Wim
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Mark the deep pink is not A. Cameleon but A. Eros I though I told you before because I made a mistake with lable, sorry
Wim
Wim, I'm trying to follow the logic of our previous discussion... you showed a photo as Allium Eos (typo for Eros) of a nice pink allium and when I asked about the name Allium Eos, you said the photo is really of Allium Cameleon... but now you're telling me the opposite. I'm totally confused. Could you post a photo of Allium 'Eros' and 'Cameleon' to clear the confusion. Are they both forms of the same species (Allium longanum)?
Here is the photo you posted as Allium Eos, which in the messages that followed you said was in fact Allium Cameleon.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5164.msg153884#msg153884
Here you said you made a mistake, the plant pictured is Allium Cameleon
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5164.msg154089#msg154089