Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Ed Alverson on February 28, 2010, 08:11:05 PM
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Not to rub it in or anything, but as anyone who has been watching the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver will know, this winter has been very mild on the northwest coast of North America. January 2010 was the warmest on record in many parts of this region, and February has continued the trend. As a result, spring has arrived very early, even for a part of the world where spring tends to arrive early anyway. Erythronium has been no exception, I have several Erythronium species blooming now in the open garden, in late February, earlier than I have ever seen. These early bloomers include Erythronium hendersonii and Erythronium tuolumnense, and yellow flower buds are showing on E. grandiflorum. Also, slightly less developed buds are present on Erythronium oregonum and Erythronium helenae right now, they should be blooming in the next week or so.
Ed
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I have good numbers of two different clones of Erythronium tuolumnense, neither of which is exemplary. It is interesting to watch their development, as the differences are particularly pronounced early in the season. One clone (in the left of the photo) emerges earlier, is very leafy, and has relatively small flowers. The second clone (on the right) emerges about 10 days later, but the flowers start to open when the plants are first emerging. As a result, the first flowers are somewhat upward facing. As spring progresses, however, the differences between the two clones are less and less evident. These distinctions must have a genetic basis because they have been consistent from year to year. It is interesting to see this in a rare species that has a very limited geographic distribution in the wild. The ability to propagate vegetatively from offsets must help to maintain such differences in cultivation.
Ed
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Not to rub it in or anything
Yeah, right !! Ed, you are SOOOOOOO mean to us!
Better not let Ian see this.... it'll ruin his day! Only one or two tiny precocious Erythroniums noses showing here :-X
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I have good numbers of two different clones of Erythronium tuolumnense, neither of which is exemplary.
The "standard" version of E. tuolumnense grown here in Victoria, BC (i.e. the one passed hand to hand) has undersized flowers, compared with other erythroniums. I believe the same clone is widely distributed elsewhere because the small flowers of E.t. have been commented on more than once. This clone is notable for its vegetative proliferation; a few bulbs will multiply luxuriantly in just a few years, hence it is no surprise that it should be very widely distributed in gardens.
However, having such small flowers is not typical of the species. Back in the late 1980s or early 1990s, the Archibalds mounted a collecting expedition to California, one of the targets of which was a larger flowered form of E. tuolumnense. By now, bulbs from the Archibalds' collecting should be grown fairly widely and it would be a surprise if there weren't clones that vastly outdo the old one in terms of flower-power.
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In 2004, I bought Erythronium dens-canis from Janis Ruksans, one each
of 7 kinds, and planted them in alphabetical order. They vary greatly in
their growth and flowering, and I wonder if it is because of their variety,
competition from other plants, or difference in the amount of light they get.
The first two "Frans Hals" and "Lilac Wonder" are on the left side of the
first picture. They get the most light, and have no competition. They have
formed nice clumps and have bloomed well for several years.
The next one is subsp niveum which has been overtaken by a vigourous
Cyclamen. If you can see part of a white label on the far right of the first
picture, you may be able to see its two leaves and single bud. This will
be its first flower.
'Pink Perfection' also grows near the cyclamen, has never flowered, and
has one leaf this year.
There is less light for the plants in the next picture, which are shaded
by a large rhododendron and have never flowered, though they are not
competing with other plants. 'Rose Queen' has made a nice clump, 'Snowflake'
has a lot of robust leaves, and 'White Splendour' has only a few leaves.
Any advice? Shall I move them? Cyclamen hederifolium and coum,
Anemone nemorosa and Helleborus niger bloom well in the same area.
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Ed, Diane, we are a bit behind you but the Erythronium dens-canis ssp. Niveum in the local woodlands have started to flower. In the garden most of the dens-canis cultivars are a few warm days away from flowering too.
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They vary greatly in
their growth and flowering, and I wonder if it is because of their variety,
competition from other plants, or difference in the amount of light they get.
The first two "Frans Hals" and "Lilac Wonder" are on the left side of the
first picture. They get the most light, and have no competition. They have
formed nice clumps and have bloomed well for several years.
The next one is subsp niveum which has been overtaken by a vigourous
Cyclamen. If you can see part of a white label on the far right of the first
picture, you may be able to see its two leaves and single bud. This will
be its first flower.
It is dangerous to have views on this because climates are so different. However, My unnamed dens-canis grow very well in dark places whereas my clone of niveum is a veakling but a very beautiful weakling and it has more light and no competition.
I tend to believe in clonal variations.
Göte
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So, it looks as though niveum is naturally weak. Even in the wild,
there are no clumps, just single plants in Chris' photos.
I will cosset it.
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I would not describe Niveum as being a weakling as a sub-species. It is not given to vegetative increase but it's increase by seed is prodigious. I will take some pics of the woodland floor which in places looks to be carpeted by Niveum leaves. I'm afraid my pics were selected for flowers rather than leaves. I have not seen dens-canis growing in other stations withn it's range so have no feel for it's ability to increase vegetatively. I had thought that the named cultivars were in part selected for their abillity to increase vegetatively, a feature not perhaps common in the wild for the species.
Niveum in Bulgaria is found growing in deciduous woodland before the canopy greens at altitudes of 400m+ and can be found growing on woodland edges and upland fields at 1500m in competition with rank grasses.
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I would not describe Niveum as being a weakling as a sub-species. It is not given to vegetative increase but it's increase by seed is prodigious. I will take some pics of the woodland floor which in places looks to be carpeted by Niveum leaves. I'm afraid my pics were selected for flowers rather than leaves. I have not seen dens-canis growing in other stations withn it's range so have no feel for it's ability to increase vegetatively. I had thought that the named cultivars were in part selected for their abillity to increase vegetatively, a feature not perhaps common in the wild for the species.
Niveum in Bulgaria is found growing in deciduous woodland before the canopy greens at altitudes of 400m+ and can be found growing on woodland edges and upland fields at 1500m in competition with rank grasses.
A plant that occrs naturally is rarely a weakling it its own biotope. As I tried to express: My experience is with the clone I happen to grow and in my climate.
Göte
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Göte, I uderstood your statement perfectly, indeed your clone may be a weakling or might be better described as poorly adapted to the cultural conditions in which it now finds itself. I simply wish to point out that Niveum is not a 'weakling' per se.
Chris
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Göte, I uderstood your statement perfectly, indeed your clone may be a weakling or might be better described as poorly adapted to the cultural conditions in which it now finds itself. I simply wish to point out that Niveum is not a 'weakling' per se.
Chris
Would you have seeds available later this year?
I would be interested in buying some. With some variation in the genetic makeup I might get some growing better.
Cheers
Göte
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The first in flowers this year was Erythronium caucasicum very soon followed by
E. dens-canis form from Rožnov in Slovakia
E. sibiricum usually is very late. Exception is this selection made by Arnis Seisums an named 'Early Wonder'
This year it was followed by new, described by me black anthered E. sibiricum subsp. sulevii.
Janis
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Here are the three eastern North American yellow flowered species; E. americanum in the wild in Campbell County, TN, E. rostratum in the garden, and E. umbilicatum in the garden.
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Aaron, great pix.... I suppose you know you are making an old Bulb Despot very happy?!
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Aaron, great pix.... I suppose you know you are making an old Bulb Despot very happy?!
Not only an old BD Maggi - some other folks also appreciate this....
;D ;D ;)
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Thanks Aaron - now we have photos from all three centers of Erythronium diversity represented, eastern North America, western North America, and Eurasia.
I was out earlier today and photographed Erythronium oregonum growing wild in a local pioneer cemetery. Here is a photo; the flowers aren't their best because of all the rain we have had recently, but you can get the idea. I've posted a few more photos of this site in the "cemetery" thread.
Ed
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We have a "Cemetary" thread? Is it for dead plants or dead people? ??? Don't you know that old gardeners never die, they just lie down and gently turn to compost. ::)
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We have a "Cemetary" thread? Is it for dead plants or dead people? ??? Don't you know that old gardeners never die, they just lie down and gently turn to compost. ::)
;)
It is for the plants, Lesley. Never let it be said that we leave any plant locations unexplored in this forum!
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5069.0
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Erythronium tuolumnense is doing great this year.. :D :D... I hope rain, wind and hail don't damage it.. :-\
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Erythronium tuolumnense is doing great this year.. :D :D... I hope rain, wind and hail don't damage it.. :-\
I hope everyone is aware that the "usual" form of E. tuolumnense has considerably smaller flowers than the general run of other Pacific coast erythroniums. In this detail, it is something of a disappointment. However, there are other strains about that have larger flowers commensurate with its compeers'. Worth looking for.
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Thanks Aaron - now we have photos from all three centers of Erythronium diversity represented, eastern North America, western North America, and Eurasia.
But we are still missing the American midwest and that great rarity among erythroniums, a native of Minnesota, E. propullans.
It is an endangered species and hence effectively impossible to acquire, but also happens to be the smallest of the erythroniums and hardly worthy of garden room. One now-deceased collector of rarities here had it in her garden, and though she crowed over it, the most polite response I could muster was a discreet silence.
I got in trouble using the word "squinny" to describe Eranthis pinnatifida in the Eranthis thread, but I'll stick my neck out once again and say that, as I saw it, E. propullans is also squinny.
Wikipedia has a modest article on this plant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythronium_propullans
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The earliest of E. dens-canis is the form collected near vil. Lipcha , Eastern Carpathians, W. Ukraine. Allways blooms wel in advance of other dens-canis
Nice selection of E. sibiricum LALAC WONDER
Janis
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Thank you MAggi. It was on my radar originally but like many others, had vanished. Even all the iris and Galanthus threads haven't shown up for months. I'll have to go right through the whole index and renotify.
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And two more... Another E. umbilicatum with white anthers/pollen and the lovely E. mesochoreum. I do not grow E. americanum or E. albidum in the garden.
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E. mesochoreum is a stunner Aaron! Increase by seed?
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Yes, only by seed for most forms of it. I do have one that offsets with some frequency though.
Aaron
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But we are still missing the American midwest and that great rarity among erythroniums, a native of Minnesota, E. propullans.
Rodger, I do have some photos of E. propullans, taken in the wild some 10 years ago. Not only is it a native of Minnesota, it is the only vascular plant that is endemic to Minnesota, so the Minnesotans are very proud of it. And it is a fitting flower for these modest midwesterners, given that it has the smallest flowers of any Erythronium, anywhere in the world! It grows in a restricted portion of what is called the "Big Woods", which are dominated by sugar maple and basswood. These forests have the typical understory of abundant spring ephemerals found in mesic forests in temperate portions of eastern and midwestern North America. Interestingly, at this site, Erythronium propullans grows with the more common and widespread Erythronium americanum, from which E. propullans is said to have recently evolved.
Count the number of tepals on the flowers of E. propullans - some flowers have only 4 or 5, instead of the "normal" 6 tepals of Erythronium.
Ed
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Cheers for the pics of E.propullans Ed, the flowers may be small but the contrast in the foliage is very attractive indeed.
Is this species under pressure from forestry / human activity or is its habitat safe?
Cheers
Chris
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Three dens-canis cultivars in the garden, two identified, the third needs a name, I'm hoping the distinct pinkish dusting may bring forth an ID....Help!!!
1) Erythronium dens-canis 'Pink Perfection'
2) Erythronium dens-canis 'Snowflake''
3) Erythronium dens-canis - Unknown Cultivar
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Is this species under pressure from forestry / human activity or is its habitat safe?
The species is endangered partly because of the limited distribution and small number of sites (only 14 small populations), but also a variety of other factors, ranging from habitat loss to ecological changes to trampling by wildflower enthusiasts. In addition to the Wikipedia article that Rodger mentioned, there is more info on the web site of the Center for Plant Conservation at
http://www.centerforplantconservation.org/collection/cpc_viewprofile.asp?CPCNum=1838. There is also a nice magazine article on the web at http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/natural_resources/ets/dwarf_trout_lily.pdf
Fortunately at least 4 populations are protected in parks or nature preserves. At the site where I saw it, park managers had constructed a boardwalk along the edge of the population so people could see it without trampling the habitat. So people in Minnesota are definitely working to preserve the species.
Ed
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A very practical approach Ed! Always good to hear about sensible conservation practices.
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Chris, that 3rd picture looks pretty much on the way to E. caucasicum don't you think?
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Lesley, I see what you mean though pollen is black indicating dens-canis, usual problem is I have never purchased E.caucasicum, this was purchased as a dens-canis cultivar, vegetative increase is strong pointing towards a dens-canis cultivar. The speckled red centre is making me lean towards something like 'White Splendour'. Maybe should take Ian Youngs bulb-log advice and just regard as dens-canis white form!
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Chris, that 3rd picture looks pretty much on the way to E. caucasicum don't you think?
E. caucasicum has yelolow anthers. See picture something earlier on this topic.
Janis
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some Erytronium dens-canis in flower today,
Ery.d.-c. `Moerheimii`
`` mixed seedlings
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Some dens canis from lago di garda in the garden of a friend going feral (picture shows only seedlings selfsown)
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These don't normally do well for me, but the late spring has encouraged the stems to lengthen before the flowers open. Two forms of Erythronium sibericum.
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The Lake Garda E. dens-canis is very nice. Wish I could make it back to north Italy in the spring.
Here is E. americanum in flower in another area in the Cumberland Mountains. Not sure what is making the heavy flowering this year, but all the populations I have seen are flowering really well. Last summer was very moist and cool with only a few days above 90F.
Aaron
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These don't normally do well for me, but the late spring has encouraged the stems to lengthen before the flowers open. Two forms of Erythronium sibericum.
Lovely sight, Anthony.
I know the feeling - out here they practically flower below ground level... ::)
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These don't normally do well for me, but the late spring has encouraged the stems to lengthen before the flowers open. Two forms of Erythronium sibericum.
Lovely sight, Anthony.
I know the feeling - out here they practically flower below ground level... ::)
They are far better after cool winters.
Janis
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Erythronium are now starting to flower well here in the warmer weather. Two portraits of plants in flower today, E. rostratum and E.umbilicatum.
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Flowering today here in New Jersey
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Well, I have leaves but no flowers on the test spot. The leaves are huge compared to some in another spot that have buds(4 plants I can see so far). I'm wondering if light conditions plays a factor? The spot with the four plants with buds is a dark spot.
I'm making a new bed this summer, I don't want them to take over the coum bed.
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Some dens canis from lago di garda in the garden of a friend going feral (picture shows only seedlings selfsown)
Axel, some magnificent leaf mottling on thos dens canis!
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This is another thread that is a feast for the eyes. I only have E. americanum, lovely mottled foliage, but NEVER ANY FLOWERS. I haven't tried the "plant the rhizomes over a rock to induce flowering trick".
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The Lake Garda E. dens-canis is very nice. Wish I could make it back to north Italy in the spring.
Here is E. americanum in flower in another area in the Cumberland Mountains. Not sure what is making the heavy flowering this year, but all the populations I have seen are flowering really well. Last summer was very moist and cool with only a few days above 90F.
Aaron
great to see all these things flowering in the wild (various threads), aaron, thanks for sharing them!
if you manage to collect seed from any of these spring woodlanders, i'd be interested ;D
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This is another thread that is a feast for the eyes. I only have E. americanum, lovely mottled foliage, but NEVER ANY FLOWERS. I haven't tried the "plant the rhizomes over a rock to induce flowering trick".
Much the same experience here Mark. I have a friend who has them planted on a damp east facing 45 degree slope of rich soil. At the top of this slope is his septic field; the "field" is very small so I suspect most leaches down the slope. The E. americanum flower and spead like mad every year. Surely there is a lesson there somewhere. I'm sure he has the best (and maybe only) soil in the whole of the peninsular city!
At the base of the slope is a small stream which meanders through heavy soil & then empties into Hfx. harbour. His Veratrums and Lysichitons are head height and a nearby Heracleum mantegazzianum is 15-17ft high.
Rhododendron dauricum is in flower here, R. mucronulatum showing colour - 3 weeks ahead.
johnw
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Much the same experience here Mark. I have a friend who has them planted on a damp east facing 45 degree slope of rich soil. At the top of this slope is his septic field; the "field" is very small so I suspect most leaches down the slope. The E. americanum flower and spead like mad every year. Surely there is a lesson there somewhere.
johnw
Hmmm, mine are also planted on a steep east facing slope, perhaps 30 degrees. It is planted in native soil, which is rocky heavy clay-like, but with humus added. And the planting is also downhill from the septic field above... curiously similar to the description of your friend's garden! The Erythronium is spreading like crazy, but never 1 flower in the 10 years I've grown it. Maybe my soil is not rich and duffy enough?
By the way, my estimate is that we too are 2-3 weeks ahead of normal.
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Mark - "Hmm" sums it up, what a coincidence. I guess I'd better not suggest you increase the slope to 45 or sharper. Thinking back his slope was more like 60.
Unless someone else chimes in we have an enigma.
I've heard the rock underneath doesn't work either.
johnw
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Mark - "Hmm" sums it up, what a coincidence. I guess I'd better not suggest you increase the slope to 45 or sharper. Thinking back his slope was more like 60.
Unless someone else chimes in we have an enigma.
I've heard the rock underneath doesn't work either.
johnw
I think I'll move some to various spots in the yard, to see if some sort of conditions bring on flower... including finding that 45 degree slope (which I actually do have available here) ;D Currently its growing at the base of a Magnolia tree, popping up among my trilliums, but I don't think they're any threat of swamping other plants. I did notice today that some are spreading into the lawn :o Here are two photos just snapped, they share their benign invasive spreading with a tiny Viola species.
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Mark - "Hmm" sums it up, what a coincidence. I guess I'd better not suggest you increase the slope to 45 or sharper. Thinking back his slope was more like 60.
Unless someone else chimes in we have an enigma.
I've heard the rock underneath doesn't work either.
johnw
I think I'll move some to various spots in the yard, to see if some sort of conditions bring on flower... including finding that 45 degree slope (which I actually do have available here) ;D Currently its growing at the base of a Magnolia tree, popping up among my trilliums, but I don't think they're any threat of swamping other plants. I did notice today that some are spreading into the lawn :o Here are two photos just snapped, they share their benign invasive spreading with a tiny Viola species.
I saw them flowering prolifically at Gothenburg Botanic gardens a couple of years ago and asked for the secret...
I got only one answer : manure - manure and more manure - dug in prior to planting ! Good luck Mc Mark ! ;D
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I saw them flowering prolifically at Gothenburg Botanic gardens a couple of years ago and asked for the secret...
I got only one answer : manure - manure and more manure - dug in prior to planting ! Good luck Mc Mark ! ;D
Well, my neighbor keeps horses so I have access to free manure. Thanks for the tip Luc.
Think I'll pile the manure high with a 45 degree slope ;D ;D
Just posted a photo in the Houstonia thread, where I photographed to show the degree of slope. My trying to naturalize Bluets is in the same bed as lots of Trillium and the subject Erythronium.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4790.msg147345#msg147345
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These were photographed beside Cowichan Lake and along the
Cowichan River on southern Vancouver Island yesterday.
I will post two messages. The first will be of Erythronium revolutum
and a couple of its associated plants: Dicentra formosa, and Lysichiton
americanus. You can see revolutum growing all through the background
of the skunk cabbage picture.
You will note the wet conditions that revolutum favours.
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Erythronium revolutum also grows in drier conditions, and here
it is next to Trillium ovatum.
Erythronium oregonum grows in drier areas, as on this hillside,
but also was growing along the riverbank.
The two form hybrids (next post)
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Here are possible hybrids of Erythronium revolutum and
Erythronium oregonum in Cowichan.
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thanks for showing these in nature, diane, great to see..
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Erythronium grandiflorum - first time blooming with me.
Janis
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Visiting my Erythroniums I suddenly noted interesting feature. It was early morning and flowers still was nodding down and I was surprised noting how different are petals back in E. sibiricum forms from Russia and from China. Russian erythroniums has dark base of flower segments (such are in all samples, from very different localities), even subsp. altaicum has colored (yellow) outer base, but in plants from China it is large and white.
Janis
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Day was nice and Erythronium flowers aquired usual shape. Here several Erythroniums - in E. sibiricum give attention to variability of design at flower segments base.
Erythronium caucasicum from Georgia
E. dens-canis Biokovo (Slovakia?)
E. sibiricum from China
E. sibiricum Freckled Girl
E. sibiricum color variants, some more later.
Janis
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One more E. sibiricum variant - cv. 'Olya'
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Erythronium grandiflorum - first time blooming with me.
Clearly, your specimen received adequate winter chilling. The properly elongated scape is the clue.
I have E. grandiflorum in the garden, originally collected on Mt. Prevost, NW of Duncan, BC, (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.832521,-123.765364&spn=0.019831,0.038538&t=p&z=15) as seedlings many years ago, but it's very rare for the scapes to elongate even though it's planted in the coldest site I have.
On Mt. Prevost (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.837069,-123.717942&spn=0,0.038538&z=15&layer=c&cbll=48.837065,-123.71795&panoid=dXIVaEK64JzgBzKd-Hjr9w&cbp=12,265.06,,2,-10.46), E.g. grows on the steep north-facing slope, which, because of its grade gets little, if any, sun in winter and therefore provides adequate winter chilling.
It is said that this stand of E. g. is the lowest altitude of any, but I'm not at all sure if that is true.
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Day was nice and Erythronium flowers aquired usual shape. Here several Erythroniums - in E. sibiricum give attention to variability of design at flower segments base.
Erythronium caucasicum from Georgia
...
Janis
Janis, the Erythronium caucasicum from Georgia is flat out GORGEOUS; I like how the elegant petals are narrow enough (but not too narrow) to clearly show the bright red curved neck of the stem, and the foliage is a knockout too.
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Erythronium pink beauty
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Erythronium pink beauty
Michael, I think I see a trend here.... I really like those Erythronium where one can clearly see the curved neck of the flower stem that suspends each flower, and in your Pink Beauty, those black-red stems beautifully set off the flowers. Beautiful.
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Erythronium americanum - I collected it in Cincinnatii, during American Daffodil Society convention and
Erythronium sibiricum LILAC SURPRISE.
JANIS
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Lovely markings on Lilac Surprise. The anthers seem odd.
Do they produce pollen?
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I have a light yellow Erythronium tuolumnense hybrid which
has lost its name. However, I bought 'Citronella' in 1994, so
probably this is it.
It has not proliferated like some of these hybrids do. This
year it has produced its first offset, which has one flower.
The main plant has five flowers open and five buds to come.
Its leaves are enormous, as expected, but one is plain and
the other has markings around the rim, which I have never
seen before in erythroniums. They usually have an all-over
pattern.
(The ruler is 30 cm long.)
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Americanum
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Here are two more of my Erythronium sibericum. 'Olya' was attacked by a beastie of some sort between the first and second pic! :(
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The Erythronium season is winding down here. E. "Joanna" is one of the later-flowering hybrids. These photos were taken in the morning so the tepals had not fully reflexed, but you can see the pinkish tinge inherited from (presumably) E. revolutum.
Ed
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Though late in the season, I also still have a few flowers of Erythronium hendersonii. This species seems to have an especially long flowering season - recall that I posted a photo of my first flowering plant of this species at the end of February. That gives it a flowering season this year of nearly 7 weeks! Even the peak of bloom lasted some 3 weeks or more. The plants are all growing in the same place in the garden, and they were all grown from the same batch of wild-collected seed, so neither site condition or genetic variation across the species range can explain the long flowering season. This year the season may be a bit longer than usual due to the weather conditions, but E. hendersonii still has a long flowering season compared to the other species I grow. E. tuolumnense, which started at the same time, was finished a couple of weeks ago.
Ed
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For some fabulous pics of Erythroniums, especially E. sibericum, see the latest bulb log. http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Apr141271250812BULB_LOG__1510.pdf
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Picture 1 Americanum bud
Picture 2 Dens-canis that I bought last fall, leaves but no flowers. No signs of the dried out junk bulbs.
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Picture 1 Americanum bud
Picture 2 Dens-canis that I bought last fall, leaves but no flowers. No signs of the dried out junk bulbs.
It is very normal for dens-canis in first year after replanting not to produce flowewrs.
Janis
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Janis thanks for info, these are my first Dens-canis. It will be interesting to see what they do next spring.
Frans Hals 1 leaf
Rose Queen 4 leaves
Snowflake 2 leaves
White Splendour 3 leaves
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A colour-variation of E. japonicum that I quite like:
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It is very normal for dens-canis in first year after replanting not to produce flowewrs.
Janis
I'm very pleased with my E. dens-canis 'White Splendour' planted last year. :).
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A colour-variation of E. japonicum that I quite like:
Phantastic!
Janis
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Bjørnar,
that japonicum is stunning.
Here Erythronium helenae is flowering.
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Some of my Erythroniums in greenhouse
Erythronium albidum
Erythronium californicum Early White Beauty - this is a week earlier than traditional White Beauty (selected by Art Guppy, USA)
Erythronium cliftonii
Erythronium Craystone Craigton Beauty - this one is raised by Ian Young
Erythronium hendersonii - excellent grower in open garden, too, even selfsowing
Erythronium oregonum
Erythronium taylorii
Janis
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Warm and sunny today.
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Erythronium Craystone Beauty - this one is raised by Ian Young
Janis, this plant is called E. Craigton Beauty ;)
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The first erythroniums this year
2 Erythronium sibiricum altaicum
1,3. Erythronium caucasicum
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Sorry, the pictures of E.caucasicum in the previous post appear blurred. This must be better
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Here Erythronium helenae is flowering.
Your photo shows the bent style, which is diagnostic of E. helenae.
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Usually this spot has two plants with flowers every year.
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Nice Erythronium from all,
here some from my garden:
Erythronium japonicum
`` multiscapöideum
`` `` x hendersonii, two pics
`` tuolumnense
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multiscapöideum x hendersonii, two pics
Very nice hybrid!
Janis
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Here is an Erythronium I saw in the Great Smoky National Park two days ago leading wildflower walks. Not sure on the species as both americanum and umbillicatum grow in the area and we had seen both. I did not bother with this one, but there were only a few small leaves besides a few mature plants in the area. The variety of umbillicatum in this area was called variety monostolon at one time.
Aaron
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Afloden, a really unusual Erythronium.
Here some pics from my garden:
E.americanum, around fifty plants and only two flowers, this in the roots from a shrub,
E.hendersonii
E.'White Beauty' and 'Pagoda'
E.'Sundisc', similar 'Pagoda', but with darker yellow in the flower and more brown in the leave
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Here is an Erythronium I saw in the Great Smoky National Park two days ago leading wildflower walks. Not sure on the species as both americanum and umbillicatum grow in the area and we had seen both. I did not bother with this one, but there were only a few small leaves besides a few mature plants in the area. The variety of umbillicatum in this area was called variety monostolon at one time.
Aaron
wow--among the nicest colour forms i've seen.. (of course, white and pink are nice, and...)
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Two Erythroniums doing well here this season :
1) E. 'White beauty'
2) E. 'Kingfaun's pink' from Susan band - unfortunately a beasty attacked the leaves... >:(
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When I say that my form of dens-canis niveum is a weakling I mean that I have had it since 98. I have tried in three different places and still only one flower and three leaves. It is very beautiful but I want more of them
Cheers
Göte
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Aaron, if I had been near that red and yellow flower, I would
have collected some of its pollen to put on a flower at home.
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Erythronium sibiricum. The red is somewhat later than the white altaicum.
E. japonicum and Corydalis. Uintentional mixture - I should separate them really.
Göte
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Erythronium californicum
Erythronium californicum 'White Beauty'
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American erythroniums are still flowering here. I'm enjoying many of them thanks to Susan Band
1. Erythronium californicum
2. Erythronium elegans
3,4 Erythronium Janette Brickell. Is the name really true?
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Just about Erythronium season down here --found a couple of flowers open on E.tuolumnense late this afternoon and i see a number of various hybrids that i received a couple of years ago have settled down and are in bud.
Back in autumn i dug down a distance to locate a clump of Erythronium umbilicatum and fearing i would harm a number of other plants growing in very close proximity if if lifted the Ery, i gingerly cut down through the side of the clump with a knife and with some difficulty lifted 2 'bulbs'.(i had no room in which scrape away the soil from the side).
Thankfully there appears to be no damage.
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Recieved my Erythronium Japonicum today, plan on planting them out tomorrow. How deep, about 3 inches? Thanks for info.
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E. tuolumnense is in flower here too Dave and also E. caucasicum, much later than usual. It is in flower in mid July most years. Very slow to increase for me. Must go and have a look for umbilicatum. I haven't noticed it yet. Yours is flowering well.
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Since the Erythronium thread is awake again I remember something that I intended to convey.
In the summer I discussed E. americanum with an employee of Gothenburg botanical garden.
He told me that he had moved some of the surplus bulbs, which had been flowering well, to his own garden not very far away.
They immediately stopped flowering!
The conculsion is, I think, that it is not a question of which bulbs we get but of how we grow them.
It seems to be to test them in as many different positions as we can.
Cheers
Göte
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Hi Göte,
When I visited Gothenburg botanics 3 years ago and was amazed by the good flowering of E. americanum I asked for the secret to Gerben Tjeerdsma and his answer was : manure ! lots and lots of manure dug in before the bulbs were planted !!! ;D ;D
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Hi Göte,
When I visited Gothenburg botanics 3 years ago and was amazed by the good flowering of E. americanum I asked for the secret to Gerben Tjeerdsma and his answer was : manure ! lots and lots of manure dug in before the bulbs were planted !!! ;D ;D
That is quite en unusual advice and that is perhaps the reason wy so few are successful. In most cases extra manure causes mor greenery and less flowers. I assume most of us are afraid to use to much manure on wild plants. Time to rethink.
Cheers
Göte
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Don't be too hasty to apply lots of manure....... Henrik and Gerben did attribute their flowering to that but it happened to begin the same year as our non-flowering patch turned into a flowering one... and we had not lifted or dug at all, and certainly no manure! :-X
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In that case the mistery seems to remain unsolved Maggi... ;D
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Well, It seems certain, however, that it is not a case of flowering and non-flowering clones.
From my own experience - from other plants - disregarding Gerben and Henrik - I would have believed it to be more a question of light.
Would there be any difference there Maggie?
I have noted that some woodland species - and some Nymphaeas - switch between a (juvenile?) non-flowering stage and a floriferous stage.
A setback will take them back to non-flowering. They seem to start flowering if remining in the same spot and growing sufficiently well there.
Lilium lankongense behaves just like E americanum. It proliferates (and migrates) by stolons without flowering but if one of the many offsets finds the situation good enough, it will turn into a flowering bulb. Fritillaria camtschatkensis behaves in a similar way.
More nutrition seems a likely way to push the plant into flowering but I assume more light or a better watering regime could work in the same way depending upon what the bottleneck might be.
Cheers
Göte.
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our non-flowering patch turned into a flowering one... and we had not lifted or dug at all, and certainly no manure! :-X
I've had the same thing happen Maggi --An established non performing patch suddenly flowering.
However a friend of mine feeds her trilliums with pelleted sheep manure --they are vigorous plants with strong flowering stems .......
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My modest collection of possible erythronium hybrid seedlings have begun to flower. :)
This pink is recorded as "Californicum white beauty x Helenae", but that appears extremely suspect.Some pollen of Revolutum pink beauty I guess is the likely donor?
Paul R
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Very nice Paul
Here are
Erythronium dens canis
Erythronium dens canis snow flake
Erythronium grandiflorum ssp pallidum - lifted from a trough about 8 weeks ago and planted into fresh mix in a pot.At the time of lifting i could only locate 2 bulbs which confirmed my thoughts that the clump wasn't doing particularly well. However today i found a number of seedlings in growth left behind in the trough ..... ::)
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So far, my patch, about 80cms across last year, of Ery. umbilicatum has totally failed to show. I'll have a look later this morning and a dig around but if it has all died I'll be devastated. Why ever WOULD it?
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On a visit to my local garden centre today I found packets of E. dens-canis among the dry bulbs. Completely dead corms were available for £2.99 each. Quite a bargain!
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Planted these the other day, two bulbs in each baggie. Have another 10 mixed non-named Dens Canis still to come in the mail. Hopefully(crossing my fingers) I see some flowers come spring.
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My patch of Ery umbilicatum is up at last and has a couple of buds today. Why so late compared with Dave's?
In flower now is Ery 'Ruapuna Dawn' a wonderful vigorous hybrid from Joan Whillans, probably revolutum x californicum 'White Beauty. Seedlings from RD come same as WB.
The two for ID please. I thought they were the same but one has white anthers while the other has yellow.
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Joan's Ruapuna Dawn is a gem, isn't it?
The first yellow looks to be a E. helenae.... if the style does bend downwards, as it appears to. The filaments seem straigth sided and the anthers pale... so helenae or a hybrid of it. It might just be multiscapoideum...... you'd need to have a poke down through the grass!
The second has a style which goes out at right angles from the center, it seems.... the anther filaments have the broadened "dutchman's breeches" shape.... so an oregonum...... :)
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Thanks Maggi, After another close look I'm still puzzling. All I'm sure of it that it isn't multiscapoideum. Single stems from single leaves. There's a fresher flower out this morning on the first and the yellow markings are slightly different, so probably a hybrid batch. They were grown from seed ages ago.
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Hi Lesley
I believe your erythronium pic - the one with the white pollen is of E. multiscapoideum. Not all branch early or may never have multiple stems. It has white pollen and a moderately branching stigma and a nice bright lemon to yellow centre blotch. And it usually is mid-sized and outward-facing.
Its not E. helenae which is almost identical but ALWAYS HAS yellow pollen.
It is not E. oregonum. It is bigger, the flower is held downwards and the pollen is yellow except in leucandrum. The flower colour is a bone white to greenish white. It doesn't have a big bold central blotch.
It is not E. howelli. It has yellow pollen and a clubbed stigma but it does have the big blotch, often more orange, and is outward facing.
I hope that helps.
Cheers, Marcus
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Lesley,
I love the 'Ruapuna Dawn'! Great leaf colour and excellent flower form. I'm glad the umbilicatum has surfaced.... pics please when available?
Howdy Marcus!! 8)
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Hi Paul! ;)
have your trout lilies finished up there on the big island?
Cheers, Marcus
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Marcus,
Not quite. I still have a couple of flowers on multiscapoideum, and some 'White Beauty' seedlings from a friend a few years ago.... and one other that I can't recall the name of right now. The oregonum ssp leucandrum pot has just finished in the last few days. Some great germination on seed of japonicum, sibiricum and caucasicum recently too, so I hope they do well in the future.
So do you have the 'Ruapuna Dawn' imported as yet? Just asking! ;D
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Leslie,
I would suggest that your Query 1 is E. multiscapoideum and Query 3 is E. oregonum.
Of course both these species hybridise in cultivation and without being in front of the plant it is difficult to give a deffinitive ID.
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Thanks you everyone. I'll go and label them right now, before the flowers fade and I'm lost for another year. The multiscapoideum is indeed, outward facing, and if the other appears to be it is becaue I tipped the flower so it could be seen inside.
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Lesley nice clump of Ruapuna Dawn.
Just so I know, should I have removed the offset bulbs before planting them? I did think about it, but planted them as is.
Dens canis
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I think it pays to divvy up dens-canis quite often and maybe grow on the little ones separately. Otherwise I get heaps of leaves and precious few flowers.
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Hi Paul,
No unfortunately :-[ . Sooooo many plants not enough time! I do have a stunning hybrid from Libby Raines but it hasn't apprecited the move and is sulking. Perhaps it will never get "around" remaining one of those treasures held by only a handful. On the other hand the revolutum hybrid, "Hascombe" looks to be a better bet and might get on one of my future lists.
Erythronium from the northern hemisphere are not easy to acclimatise and you may as well forget NZ because now Australia requires a phyto AS WELL as post entry quarantine. Small specialist nurseries in NZ just can't cop the regulatory cost (2 inspections) and under that regime individual enthusiasts don't get a look in.
Cheers, Marcus
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Tim Orpin received a few of 'Ruapuna Dawn' maybe 3 years ago Paul. I don't know how they fared but you could ask him some time. Or maybe they were in the consignment that quarantine managed to kill just about everything in it?
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New Erythronium Bed, they are planted in leaf compost/sand. Should I fertilize them? I have Miracle Grow all purpose 24-8-16, tomato 18-18-21 and bone meal 6-9-0. If so which would be best to use? Thanks for info.
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From the picture your compost looks to have quite a leaf compost content and I would doubt if you need to add fertiliser just now.
If you add anything use the bone meal and steer well clear of the high chemical nitrogen composts.
When the growth appears in the spring then is the time to asses if they need any extra nitrogen. You will be able to tell from the leaf growth and colour - pale colour and slow growth may indicate they need a gentle nitrogen boost but I would doubt this will be the case. Later in the season, around the time the flowers are going over you can add some potash, potassium, in what ever form you can get. The fine powder form we get is good because it enters into solution and is available to the plant quickly courser forms more like a fine grit should be added a bit sooner as it releases more slowly.
Hope this helps - I look forward to seeing the bed in spring.
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Ian, thanks for the help.
Will post pictures if some flower.