Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => Travel / Places to Visit => Topic started by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 03:24:25 PM

Title: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 03:24:25 PM
I found old photos of Tian-Shan expedition. That was very interesting trip to Kirghizia in August, 2004 for finding high alpine plants. Sorry pictures are not of good quality.

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_55f17122.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_5e303d98.jpg)

Dracocephalum sp.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_c80137f4.jpg)

Primula minkwitzae
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_7f93135f.jpg)

Rhodiola coccinea
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_feb8b185.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 03:28:35 PM
Rhodiola semenovii
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_1a03e20a.jpg)

Saxifraga flagellaris
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_3c9c6ff5.jpg)

Large cushion of Thylacospermum caespitosum with Allium sp. in it
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_259acf04.jpg)

Ephedra sp. fruits
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_73f192cf.jpg)

Inula rhyzocephala
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_a06d5393.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 03:32:22 PM
Glacier at 3800 m.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_b77d4098.jpg)

Orostachis sp.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_0ab92740.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_cf36836b.jpg)

Perovskia
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_6d078ab1.jpg)

Our camp
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_6869e05e.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 03:34:34 PM
Aconitum rotundifolium
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_46988968.jpg)

Leonthopodium nanum
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_f1275989.jpg)

Plants at 4000 m.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_6c443007.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_a0aad268.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: fleurbleue on February 12, 2010, 03:51:29 PM
Thanks for the armchair journey Olga  ;)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 12, 2010, 03:55:26 PM
Oooh, fantastic!  Gorgeous scenery views.  The Draco is to lust for, isn't it :o, so is Aconitum rotundifolium and Leontopodium nanum.  The Allium growing through the custion plant is A. carolinianum.
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Maggi Young on February 12, 2010, 04:23:05 PM
Only someone with photos of your usual standard could apologise for these, Olga! :)

What a treat to have this unexpected expedition to enjoy... thank you very much indeed!

Spectacular scenery but I have to mention those allium, sprinkled over the cushion.... super combination.  :)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 04:34:11 PM
Nicole, Mark, Maggi
Thank you!  :)

That's not all.

Mount view with mount goats
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_11a4ee03.jpg)

Cortusa tianshanica
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_604a488f.jpg)

Pedicularis sp.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_adc74be7.jpg)

Saussurea sp.. Wonderful plant growing alone at 4000 m. pass.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_58065ec5.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 04:37:33 PM
Christolea flabellata

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_b8715c9f.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_93dc925a.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_1408d0bd.jpg)

Androsace sericea

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_3fbf6009.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Maggi Young on February 12, 2010, 04:42:16 PM
Nicole, Mark, Maggi
Thank you!  :)

That's not all.    

Oh, GOOD!!  8) 8) ;)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 04:42:45 PM
Callianthemum alatavicum
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_9bf240b0.jpg)

Eritrichium tianshanicum
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_6ad70aa2.jpg)

Mmmm... Sclerosis please go away... Very rare endemic plant...
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_1d59356b.jpg)

Oxytropis chionobia (?)
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_b94b4bcd.jpg)

To be continued....  ;)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: fleurbleue on February 12, 2010, 04:43:28 PM
I hope so Olga  :D I can't wait for the others pics  ::)... Pedicularis sp. have nice two tones flowers !
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Maggi Young on February 12, 2010, 04:52:56 PM
Christolea flabellata is interesting....another of those plants with several names.....
Desideria flabellata (Regel) Al-Shehbaz
Parrya flabellata Regel, Bull. Soc. Imp. Naturalistes Moscou 43: 261. 1870; Christolea flabellata (Regel) N. Busch; C. pinnatifida R. F. Huang; Ermania flabellata (Regel) O. E. Schulz; Oreoblastus flabellatus (Regel) Suslova.

...... one of its relatives:  Solms-Laubachia will be featured in an future issue of the International Rock Gardener...  8)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: gervandenbeuken on February 12, 2010, 05:04:30 PM
Olga, Eritrichium tianshanicum and thylacospermum caespitosum, wowww!!
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: ashley on February 12, 2010, 05:07:44 PM
Amazing plants and pictures Olga; thank you.  Did you travel independently in Kyrgyzstan or have a local guide?
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Brian Ellis on February 12, 2010, 05:24:05 PM
Thank you Olga this is a real treat, wonderful plants in natural settings, wow  :o
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 05:39:06 PM
The next.  :)

Gentiana algida
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_67680619.jpg)

Gentiana algida and Gentiana sp.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_350dc94c.jpg)

Gentian meadow at about 4000 m.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_b1e20a9d.jpg)

Iris loczyi
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_cad69543.jpg)

Waterfall
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_5a5e6f2b.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 05:42:58 PM
Saussurea gnaphalodes
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_b985f764.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_c734eeb2.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_f10a9dfb.jpg)

Saussurea leucophylla
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_4349db6a.jpg)

Saxifraga hirculus
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_99d22c6b.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 05:46:52 PM
Saxifraga oppositifolia
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_7c1b4d54.jpg)

Waldheimia tridactylites
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_15cd0ca5.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_5e385859.jpg)

Paraquilegia grandiflora. The place was too windy to make good image.  :(
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_9e690da6.jpg)

Primula turkestanica
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_c60151de.jpg)

... to be continued...  8)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 05:51:55 PM
Nepeta sp.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_5c4567d8.jpg)

Going where grows Corydalis fedtschenkoi
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_f4e0e304.jpg)

Yes we found it!
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_c7da5993.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_94ad1894.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_3597c99c.jpg)

Apollo which caterpillars eat Corydalis fedtschenkoi
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_2b0c81da.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 05:55:52 PM
Oooh, fantastic!  Gorgeous scenery views.  The Draco is to lust for, isn't it :o, so is Aconitum rotundifolium and Leontopodium nanum.  The Allium growing through the custion plant is A. carolinianum.

Could it be Allium polyphyllum?
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 05:57:28 PM
Christolea flabellata is interesting....another of those plants with several names.....
Desideria flabellata (Regel) Al-Shehbaz
Parrya flabellata Regel, Bull. Soc. Imp. Naturalistes Moscou 43: 261. 1870; Christolea flabellata (Regel) N. Busch; C. pinnatifida R. F. Huang; Ermania flabellata (Regel) O. E. Schulz; Oreoblastus flabellatus (Regel) Suslova.

...... one of its relatives:  Solms-Laubachia will be featured in an future issue of the International Rock Gardener...  8)

Yes.  :) When I look at this plants sometimes I can't find difference.
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 06:00:47 PM
Did you travel independently in Kyrgyzstan or have a local guide?

We had a local car with driver. It is much better due to local features.
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Maggi Young on February 12, 2010, 06:03:14 PM
Oooh, fantastic!  Gorgeous scenery views.  The Draco is to lust for, isn't it :o, so is Aconitum rotundifolium and Leontopodium nanum.  The Allium growing through the custion plant is A. carolinianum.

Could it be Allium polyphyllum?

I think the two are synonymous, Olga.

What about Allium karelinii?
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 12, 2010, 06:05:06 PM
Oooh, fantastic!  Gorgeous scenery views.  The Draco is to lust for, isn't it :o, so is Aconitum rotundifolium and Leontopodium nanum.  The Allium growing through the custion plant is A. carolinianum.

Could it be Allium polyphyllum?

The name "polyphyllum" is a synonym of A. carolinianum.

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=200027456
Allium carolinianum DC., ; Redoute Liliac. 2: t. 101 (1804).

Synonyms:
Allium aitchisonii Boiss.
Allium blandum Wall.
Allium obtusifolium Klotzsch
Allium polyphyllum Kar. & Kir.
Allium thomsonii Baker

4800-5100 m; C. Asia, Afghanistan, Himalaya (Kashmir to Nepal)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 06:08:21 PM
Maggi, Mark, thanks! Too many synonyms.  :o
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: art600 on February 12, 2010, 06:11:02 PM
Olga

Thank you for posting these superb photos.  I like all the plants but the Gentian and the Corydalis are exceptional.

Hope there are lots more to come  :)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 12, 2010, 06:11:59 PM
The Allium growing through the custion plant is A. carolinianum.

Could it be Allium polyphyllum?

I think the two are synonymous, Olga.

What about Allium karelinii?

The name A. karelinii is a synonym for the scabrous foliage form of chives.  I'm quite sure the ID is A. carolinianum.

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027529
Allium schoenoprasum var. scaberrimum Regel, Mélanges Biol. Bull. Phys.-Math. Acad. Imp. Sci. Saint-Pétersbourg. 3(2): 80. 1875.

Synonyms:
Allium karelinii Poljakov; A. scabrellum Boissier & Buhse.
Leaves, leaf sheaths, and scape scabrous-denticulate along angles. Fl. Aug.
Meadows, along streams; 2000--2500 m. Xinjiang (Altay Shan, Tarbagatay Shan, Tian Shan) [Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Russia].



Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Paddy Tobin on February 12, 2010, 06:28:31 PM
Olga,

A fabulous report on your trip, wonderful photographs and out of this world plants. Brilliant. Paddy
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Ragged Robin on February 12, 2010, 06:35:43 PM
Wow, Olga, what a terrific photo record of your trip - such amazing scenery and plants - the Gentiana meadow is wonderful
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 12, 2010, 06:47:11 PM
It's late...
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_84398715.jpg)

Next day - next photos!  ;)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: cohan on February 12, 2010, 06:57:55 PM
wonderful! the photos may not be large but nothing wrong with the quality :)
i should have had these photos before ordering seeds  ;D
so many treasures, but special thanks for orostachys! pics are rare, and seeds so far impossible to find :( (except most common 1 or 2 sp)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: David Nicholson on February 12, 2010, 07:38:36 PM
Magnificent
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: DaveM on February 12, 2010, 08:14:28 PM
Such splendid photos Olga! Your pix remind me of my own trip to the Tien Shan in 2000. I particularly remember the rich, rich meadows and huge range of species, with many that we well recognize from European mountains, but others that are definitely Asian. The Cristolea is one that I particularly liked, but there are so many excellent crucifers - for example Chorispora bungeana......

Suggestions for some of your unnamed species:

The deep blue Dracocephalum is D imberbe

The cabbage-like Saussurea is S involucrata - I attach images from the approach to the Chon Ashoo Pass.

The third attachment is another crucifer that we were unable to identify - Any ideas??

I look forward to seeing more of your wonderful images. Don't stop now!
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: ian mcenery on February 13, 2010, 12:18:10 AM
Olga fantastic thank you  8)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Lori S. on February 13, 2010, 01:45:55 AM
Wonderful pix!  It's great to see these plants in the wild!
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Hristo on February 13, 2010, 06:37:47 AM
A fascinating trip Olga, great to see so many alpine species!
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 13, 2010, 01:00:06 PM
Thanks to all!

Androsace grown in a cushion of Dryadanthe tetrandra
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_715ed7d5.jpg)

Erysimum sp.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_36b4559e.jpg)

Sedum sp.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_2f8bec51.jpg)

Comastoma sp.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_f1510779.jpg)

Acantholimon sp.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_17315b17.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 13, 2010, 01:02:53 PM
Acantholimon sp.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_60c451a8.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_d4389e17.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_c9f0f341.jpg)

(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_61196b27.jpg)

Lagotis integrifolia
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_2b2ee480.jpg)

Pyrethrum leonthopodium
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_fba39239.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 13, 2010, 01:05:44 PM
Pyrethrum leonthopodium
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_6a1d52ee.jpg)

Ranunculus sp.
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_98e464b0.jpg)

Smelovskia calycina
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_951a6222.jpg)

Rainbow after cold rian
(http://cs10306.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/104553915/x_93f28f03.jpg)
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Paddy Tobin on February 13, 2010, 01:18:48 PM
Olga,

The plants and the scenery compliment each other supremely; both are exceptionally beautiful.

Paddy
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Maggi Young on February 13, 2010, 03:06:34 PM


The third attachment is another crucifer that we were unable to identify - Any ideas??


Is your unknown crucifer the same as the Smelowskia calycina shown by Olga, David?
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 13, 2010, 03:10:37 PM
Is your unknown crucifer the same as the Smelowskia calycina shown by Olga, David?

Looks the same.

David, Thank you for Saussurea ID. I was wonder the plant was alone, no others in kilometres around.
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Olga Bondareva on February 13, 2010, 03:17:12 PM
i should have had these photos before ordering seeds ;D

Then you ordered more?  :)
Unfortunately most of this incredible plants could be grown in mild climate. Paraquilegia, Hegemone, Ranunculus, Gentians, Pyrethrum,  Smelovskia, Thylacospermum... All are hardy but long hot summers kill them.  :(

Quote
so many treasures, but special thanks for orostachys! pics are rare, and seeds so far impossible to find :( (except most common 1 or 2 sp)

I know Vojtech Holubec visited Tian-Shan this summer. May be you could find some seeds in his list?
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Lori S. on February 13, 2010, 03:25:58 PM
Smelowskia calycina seems to have finer foliage there than here.  Fascinating to see something familiar amongst all those exotics!  The one posted by David has oddly beige flowers, compared to the snowy white ones here - if it was aging, one would expect to see a gradation in colour, but it seems to be uniform.


Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: DaveM on February 13, 2010, 03:48:01 PM
Thanks Olga and Maggi for the id on the unknown crucifer - these certainly look the same plant. I don't recall the plant was "going over", Lori. There were a number of specimens on the scree and all had this creamy colour.

Olga - we also saw only one plant of the Saussurea......

The Ranunculus is magnificent and so abundant. Could this be R albertii?

Also the Erysimum, perhaps E humillimum?
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Maggi Young on February 13, 2010, 03:53:05 PM
My first thought on seeing David's crucifer was that perhaps the photo had a bit of a colour cast, because of the creamy flowers and the very dark green foilage, but perhaps it is simply a local variation, by a result of particular minerals in that place, for instance??
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: DaveM on February 13, 2010, 04:09:38 PM
....or maybe Olga's is an albino form????
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: DaveM on February 13, 2010, 04:26:58 PM
Another plant I couldn't  begin to identify.......

From the screes above the Inylchek glacier at Merzbacher's Field.
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: Lori S. on February 13, 2010, 04:48:11 PM
....or maybe Olga's is an albino form????
The only form I've ever seen here (other than those affected by rust) have snowy white flowers, as in Olga's photos.
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: cohan on February 13, 2010, 06:25:37 PM
i should have had these photos before ordering seeds ;D
Then you ordered more?  :)
Unfortunately most of this incredible plants could be grown in mild climate. Paraquilegia, Hegemone, Ranunculus, Gentians, Pyrethrum,  Smelovskia, Thylacospermum... All are hardy but long hot summers kill them.  :(
Quote
so many treasures, but special thanks for orostachys! pics are rare, and seeds so far impossible to find :( (except most common 1 or 2 sp)
I know Vojtech Holubec visited Tian-Shan this summer. May be you could find some seeds in his list?

no! i already ordered too many ;)
i don't think vojtech had any orostachys on his list.... i think oros flower very late, maybe seeds arrive after the seed collectors have gone home?
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 14, 2010, 05:06:40 PM
Another plant I couldn't  begin to identify.......

From the screes above the Inylchek glacier at Merzbacher's Field.

Quaint little plant, do you think it might be a saxifrage?
Title: Re: Tian-Shan 2004
Post by: TheOnionMan on February 14, 2010, 05:28:00 PM
....or maybe Olga's is an albino form????
The only form I've ever seen here (other than those affected by rust) have snowy white flowers, as in Olga's photos.

Given the range of Smelowskia calycina through much of the Northern Hemisphere, and the great variability of the species, I think the entry for this species in Flora of China just about sums it up:

Rocky slopes, gravelly hills, rocky crevices, alpine meadows; 2500-4900 m. Xinjiang [Afghanistan, India, Kashmir, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Pakistan, Russia (Far East, Siberia), Tajikistan; North America].

Smelowskia calycina is highly variable and has been divided in both Asian and North American accounts into several, poorly defined species or varieties. In the absence of authoritative studies on the species throughout its range, it is better not to recognize any infraspecific taxa. The Chinese plants are a good match for the type collection of the species. Synonyms pertaining only to C Asia are listed above.

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200009690
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