Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Flowers and Foliage Now => Topic started by: Hans A. on February 10, 2010, 11:01:17 AM
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Paeonia clusii is one of my favourites.
Some years ago I was given three seeds of this rare species, two of them germinated and now the first is flowering - a wonderful flower although a bit damaged by cutworms.
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Lovely Hans - it's one of my favourites too. They have a good plant of it in the Davies alpine house at Kew, which unfortunately was about a week off flowering when I visited in 2008. I must try again to see it open this year.
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A beautiful plant Hans, lovely in flower. Gail I hope you can make it in time for the flowers to be open on the Kew plant (and post it here of course). It really looks a stunning specimen. :D
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That's a cute one I haven't seen before.
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Paeonia clusii is one of my favourites.
Some years ago I was given three seeds of this rare species, two of them germinated and now the first is flowering - a wonderful flower although a bit damaged by cutworms.
Hi Hans,
herewith a picture (from a few years ago) of two beauties: Paeonia mascula ssp. bodurii and P. clusii; unfortunately I have no close-up of clusii; plants are still alive and grows v ery well in raised beds; during summer the plants are protected against rain by glass.
Hendrik
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Paeonia clusii is one of my favourites.
Some years ago I was given three seeds of this rare species, two of them germinated and now the first is flowering - a wonderful flower although a bit damaged by cutworms.
Sorry Hans, wrong picture!
I have send a picture of P. coriacea instead of clusii and mascula bodurii.
Now the right one
Hendrik
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Wonderful plants Hendrik - hope will et as large as yours.
Last weekend a paeonia specialist (and forumist) and me tried to spot Paeonia cambessedesii in the local mountains - here is one of the very few we found, still some days from flowering - it might be so rare here because of the high number of goats.
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Last weekend a paeonia specialist (and forumist)
Another Hans on Mallorca ?? ;D ;D ;)
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Paeonia wittmanniana is emerging:
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Today flowers Paeonia kesrouanensis.
Always the first paeony that flowers here in my garden!
Hendrik
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That's very early! Like the red stems on that.
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Today flowers Paeonia kesrouanensis.
Always the first paeony that flowers here in my garden!
Hendrik
Hendrik, where is P. kesrouanensis native to? Not only are the stems red, but the red continues right up into the central vein of each leaf... beautiful.
No paeonias in bloom here yet, but I just love what these things look like emerging. Two pics of P. wittmanniana emerging, one taken in low light near dusk, the second taken in bright light this morning. The one of P. japonica.
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Mark,
P. kesrouanensis is a subsp. of mascula; it grows wild in Syria, Lebanon and Turkey (Boz Dag and Finike).
It flowers always very, very early (the first of all my wild species) and is here in Belgium completely hardy.
It is uncommon in cultivation but grows and flowers well.
Hendrik
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Paeonia wittmanniana growth buds are expanding, such a muscular species in spring emergence, so I share this update. Only just starting to emerge is an old hybrid, but a remarkable one indeed, P. 'Buckeye Belle', that has shiny intense blood-red petals. The spring buds are bright red too.
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You'll show us 'Buckeye Belle' when she's fully out Mark.
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You'll show us 'Buckeye Belle' when she's fully out Mark.
Well, I can show you now (with previous year photos). I hope you like enormous red flowers :D
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Buckeye Belle is probably my favourite hybrid - sumptuous flowers and a really good vigorous plant.
Here is mine at the moment (leaves behind are Colchicum speciosum 'Album') and an old picture of flowers.
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Great to see the buds of Paeonia emerging and unfurling with promise of glorious flowers to come - Buckey Belle is a wonderful blood red and generous cup in your photo, Mark.
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Hendrik, your P. clusii is so incredibly beautiful - congratulations on its first flowering :)
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Thank you Mark. I certainly DO like enormous red flowers and if I wore a hat, I'd happily wear one of these in it. I've not seen this hybrid in NZ but will certainly look for her now. She's gorgeous!
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Thank you Mark. I certainly DO like enormous red flowers and if I wore a hat, I'd happily wear one of these in it. I've not seen this hybrid in NZ but will certainly look for her now. She's gorgeous!
Glad you like it Leslie. It's silly when I think about having this plant, it was not through any sort of deliberate selection that I grow that Paeonia cultivar... the year following my deck-rebuild project, in the autumn I was looking for shrubs and nursery stock to plant around the deck, my wife wanting some "BIG SHOWY FLOWERS" :P. So, looking over the dregs of unbought plants in the fall, about a dozen varieties of Paeonies were available, and not knowing anything about the names, I merely selected 6 plants that had good autumn leaf color. I got lucky that Buckeye Belle was among them... wish all six were that variety, the others are typical pink & white lactiflora hybrids.
In a fiollowing year the plants started collapsing with mold or disease after a long stint of rain and hot summer weather; I treated them with a chemical (sorry, I forget what is was, a nursery friend gave me some) that saved most, lost 1 of the 2 Buckeye Belle plants. I replaced the one that died with P. wittmanniana.
Uploaded a photo of my deck in 2007, the tree in the center is Magnolia zenii, while growing lustily for a couple years, died the following winter, the tree suffering from softened buds and wood when we had ridiculous ultra-mild weather all through December and into January, then go hit with real winter weather. The Paeonia plants are growing at the base and to the right of that tree.
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Yesterday a friend and me made a mountaintour with the idea to find Paeonia cambessedesii, a species which never has been very common but has become still rarer in the last years.
Last months a (very kind) forumist and me searched allready for it but we could not localize new plants, but I we were very glad to find the few old ones.
Climbing through the mountains we finally found a few more - fortunately some still were in flower!
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Wonderful to see them in the wild Hans, thank you so much for posting.
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Marvellous that your efforts were rewarded finding these beautiful Paeonia cambessedesii still flowering in the wild Hans - and what a habitat....did you have ropes? :o
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Nothing beats the new shoots of peonies at this time of year.
The last two shots are of one received from Don Armstrong which I believe was id'ed last year.
johnw
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Exciting shots of your peonies emerging John and the last lot of buds almost have a farina look :)
(Was this post supposed to be in another thread?)
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Exciting shots of your peonies emerging John and the last lot of buds almost have a farina look :)
(Was this post supposed to be in another thread?)
I rather think it was, Robin.... I've shuffled it along to Paeonia!
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They look gorgeous Hans !!! A very fruitful trip !
John, they look like red mushrooms emerging like that ! :D
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Yesterday a friend and me made a mountaintour with the idea to find Paeonia cambessedesii, a species which never has been very common but has become still rarer in the last years.
Climbing through the mountains we finally found a few more - fortunately some still were in flower!
Well your pics certainly re-inforce my idea that the Rock Garden is the perfect place for this species!
Thanks for your efforts, Hans.
Interestingly enough we've just harvested the first seeds set on this species in our garden!
cheers
fermi
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Hans you both had a very fruitful search for Paeonia cambessedesii. Lovely species that I must try.
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First of the season with me:
Paeonia qiui P.decomposita
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Thanks for the comments - I also was very glad to find them and did not expect to find flowering plants so late in the season.
Marvellous that your efforts were rewarded finding these beautiful Paeonia cambessedesii still flowering in the wild Hans - and what a habitat....did you have ropes? :o
Next time I will take some with me... ::) ;)
Beautiful Paeonia Giles, thanks for showing - a species I have seen only very few pictures.
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John, in Reply #24, the third of your four pictures, nothing beats but something eats? ???
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John, in Reply #24, the third of your four pictures, nothing beats but something eats? ???
Support and compression in a tight spot come May. :D
johnw
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One of my favourite Paeonia is the first which is in flower this year. It is Paeonia decomosita (P. szetchuanica)
Greetings from the sunny lowlands of Switzerland
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Lovely flowers Giles and Lukas, and great foliage on that P. decomposita too. I'm still waiting for my first peony but any day now....
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Support and compression in a tight spot come May. :D
johnw
Oh, of course. I'd been visuallizing a rampaging flock of rabbits. ;D
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My first peonies are out now; P. mairei, sometimes said to be nutmeg scented, mine has more of a musky fragrance, and a peony grown from AGS seed that was said to be P. anomala which it is not, anomala has more finely divided leaves, this looks mascula-type; a good robust and floriferous plant.
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They're lovely Gail, especially the AGS one. Shows how it is so much better if you can plant a group rather than just a single. The advantage of raising from seed, or one of them. :)
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They're lovely Gail, especially the AGS one. Shows how it is so much better if you can plant a group rather than just a single. The advantage of raising from seed, or one of them. :)
That group results from just two seedlings that germinated, I regularly divide my peonies (well just slice bits off the sides of plants rather than dig them up) so I can get nice groups or share with friends. I don't like having just one plant of anything in case of disaster (swift moth larvae eating the roots, being the main problem with peonies here)
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A new seedling this year. From a double red-purple, possibly Kamada Fuji, crossed with Godaishu. A single, but I really prefer them big and open with little filling.
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Two Paeonia species opened today, after two days of warm sunny weather (82-86 F, or 28-30 C), P. japonica, and P. wittmanniana. The general appearance of the flowers is similar, but P. japonica is a small delicate plant with white flowers, growing in an open shady location, and P. wittmanniana is an imposing tall brute with cream flowers, which is growing in full sun.
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P.triternata (= P.daurica)
P.emodi
P.qiui (I think the earlier one wasn't qiui, but decomposita instead).
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Mark and Giles, such beautiful flowers, sumptuous yet elegant. Thanks for sharing them.
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Lovely pictures Mark and Giles. Are you particularly sheltered there Giles - my emodi is still in tight bud.
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Gail,
I guess a greenhouse counts as a 'sheltered spot' ( ;D )
-bought them bare root in the Autumn, potted them up and put them under the staging as a temporary measure, to be properly sorted later, to find they're romping away and in full flower, whilst still getting night frosts here (-2 C last night). oh well.......
Similar problem with martagons and Nomocharis which will be in flower in a week or two (oops..).
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Gail,
I guess a greenhouse counts as a 'sheltered spot' ( ;D )
-bought them bare root in the Autumn, potted them up and put them under the staging as a temporary measure, to be properly sorted later, to find they're romping away and in full flower, whilst still getting night frosts here (-2 C last night). oh well.......
Similar problem with martagons and Nomocharis which will be in flower in a week or two (oops..).
My emodi always worries me, it is very early to leaf and the foliage looks so delicate but so far so good, it hasn't been frosted (Touching wood!).
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Paeonia kavachensis - listed under this name in my copy of the Plantfinder (albeit an out of date copy) but I think is generally considered a subsp. of P. mascula.
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8 years ago I started from one seed, and now my first flower on P. parnassica!!! :o :o :o
It seems very difficult to keep this plant in cultivation; I grow it in a raised bed, with overhead protection against to much rain during winter and summer...
Hendrik
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Hendrik, that's a spectacular Paeonia, such deep and intense flower color against light foliage :o :o I'm going to have to add this one to my neverending list :D
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Congratulations on getting the P. parnassica to flower Hendrik, not one that I've seen in the flesh. That is a stunning colour; I've seen delavayi that colour but not any of the herbaceous types.
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Thank you for the congratulations,
Yes, I'm a little proud, because I know that this plant is really not easy to cultivate...
Hendrik
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On Sunday the Peony Group of the HPS met for our AGM in Leicestershire, after the meeting and standing in worship before John Hudson's fantastic plant of Molly the Witch, we went to the Leicester Botanic Garden. Home of the National Collection of aubretia and an excellent alpine house, they also have a variety of peony plants, although naming is unreliable. http://www2.le.ac.uk/projects/botanic-gardens
I was intrigued by two plants with very wavy leaves, one of which was labelled P. kavachensis . They are very different to my plant of this name (though of course there is nothing to say that my plant, pictured in post 47, is right). Is anyone familiar with this species and can comment?
As an aside, some of us stopped at the Old Rectory at Sudbourne in Northamptonshire on the way - this is a fantastic garden surrounding a classic English country house with many very interesting plants and the most wonderful peonies, both herbaceous and woody. Very friendly owners. We were probably about 10 days too early for the peonies but if you are in the area it is well worth a visit. http://www.oldrectorygardens.co.uk/index.html
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Gail,
thanks for sharing these wonderful fotos. Molly (P. mlokosewitschii) is quite a well grown clump. I've rarely seen it looking so wonderful. I lost my main plant a few years back to voles, but have a few seedlings underway. For those haveing trouble with the species epithet, the mans name was Mlokosewicz, pronounced, depending on dialekt, mlock-o-say-vitch, and was latinized to the species name for some reason. I must admit, I find Molly the Witch quite charming, though!
I've never seen a P. kavachensis with this wonderful foliage. Mine looked like yours and came from Paul Christian. The colour was fabulous. I say was, as this, too, was cut-off at the roots by burrowing demons. Current literature places it under P. mascula mascula, which I really can't see, as my plant was quite distinct, or was not actually the species! I really don't know. My foliage was more like what I know as P. daurica, but I am far from an expert. ;D
maybe Hans can sort this out.
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Some recently blooming paeonias from my garden ;D
Paeonia daurica, Crimean material
Paeonia tenuifolia FLORE PLENO - a double form from garden as I was told collected some time in Crimea too.
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Gail + Jamie ,
after my opinion is this Paeonia kavachesis from Leicester wrong named - it looks ( for me ) more like a P. daurica ( look for the undulate leaves ).
For me is P. kavachensis more or less a P.mascula ....
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My P. Mlokosewitschii had twenty three flowers last year but only has ten this year I am a bit disappointed with this, is there any reason that I would get less flowers this time around . I do not feed my peony's as I thought they didn't require feed. I suppose I should be happy that it has flowers on it after the winter we have had.
Angie :)
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here are some pics from a other nice experiment with my peonies :
Since many years I grow P. potanini forma alba ....it makes always seeds and so I had the idea to sow some of these to look which color has the new plants .
Now in this days I had the first flower on one of this plants ...and it is red !
mother plant of Paeonia potanini f. alba
seedling ......... Paeonia potanini f. rubra
both plants together ;D
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what a beautiful red! I would have expected more like we see in P. delavayi, a rust tone. Did you hand pollinate, or are other bee parents possible? I find these plants (delavayi group) are worth growing for their wonderful foliage alone.
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Jamie ,
no not hand pollinate ....it was just for fun !
I dont believe that it is a hybrid between P.potanini and P.delavayii
P.delavay has a much later flowering time .....they are totaly different in habit .
P.potanini is a dwarf - only 50 ch height
P.lutea is medium ( around 1 m )
P.delavayii is large ( 1 -1,5 m )
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Hans,
interesting your size references for this group. I have some that I believe are P. potanini and they are indeed quite short and somewhat creeping, although I have yet to bloom them. The seed is from the local Flora. My P. lutea (from Kelways) is quite tall at about 1.5m, while my P. delavayi, all of which I grew from Flora seed, are about 1m to 1.5m. The foliage amongst the three is quite distinct, with P.potanini being much finer and P. lutea very bold, heavy and almost yellow-green. All of my P. delavayi have somewhat different colours, ranging from brick red right through to yellow-orange mottled.
While I have you attention, here are some foliage shots. Maybe you can help me ID the plants.
The first two are from what i believe is P. anomola. I does produce flowers in pairs and threes. Seed raised.
The next is a plant I received as P. japonica, but the flower is always red. As I have not read of anything but white japonicas, I take it this must be P. obovata. From Paul Christian.
The last two shots are from what I believe is P. peregrina. One of the plant in bud, with the other a shot of the leaf tips. I have read of no other Paeonia that might have such leaves. Also, the flower is bright red and doesn't open fully. Seed raised
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Jamie ,
it is really difficould to receive a true P.lutea ...you will receive mostly P.ludlowii ( more than 2 m)
A other sign for a true P. delavayii is they grows always single - it make not stolonens
It exist also a P. potanini v. trollioides ( also yellow flowers ) but I can not help with a pic .
I'm not shure with P.anomala ....I have a very similar plant which is called P.beresowskii - P. anomal should have a thinner and more dissectet leaves ( maybe a hybrid ? )
Your P.japonica reminds me on P.mairei ...could you compere it ?
The leaves are not typical like a P.obovata
This is 100 % a P.peregrina - with the not opened flower is it typical
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Hans,
thanks, I take it I do have P. ludlowii then. I think this plant would reach over 2m, if I didn't trim it occaisionally.
All of the seedlings I have designated as P. delavayi do not produce stolons. They are very tight clumping plants. Of course, due to the varied flower colours, they may represent off-spring of hybrids, although the mother plant really fits the delavayi description. In any case, I enjoy them.
I was wondering the same on the non-obovata-type leaves, as these are clearly lanceolate, but didn't think P. mairei was even about for sale. I suppose anything is possible these days. My plant is rather short, never having grown higher than 60cm. Perhaps I should transplant it to a moister location and see if this changes its stature.
Now, that is an interesting idea with the anomola. Maybe it is P. bersowski, but maybe a hybrid. All the info I've found places beresowski under veitchii, but this plant doesn't really act like veitchii, if you know what I mean and the leaves are a bit too heavy for that species, don't you think.
At least we have pergrina sorted out!
Thanks,
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Now in this days I had the first flower on one of this plants ...and it is red !
Hans,
It will be most interesting to see if further plants will also be red !
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Hans,
It will be most interesting to see if further plants will also be red !
Luc ,
I have given away a lot of this seedlings to other plantfriends ....but 2 are still here ( they will flower in next year )
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Jamie ,
and a true P.delavayii can flower from orange red until near marron ...but never yellow !
Here are some older pics from me :
P.mairei
P.beresowski
P.obovata v.willmottiae
P.peregrina ex Calabria
P.peregrina ( samples from habitat )
P.lutea ( a very nice form )
P.ludlowii
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Hans,
thanks, I see what you mean on the P. mairei, that is definitely the same plant as what I have. The glossy, lanceolate leaves are identical. The obovata is nothing like mine.
P. beresowski could well be what I have. It looks very much the same, especially the fuller form of the flower with the leaves.
Very nice lutea clone! I've never seen anything quite like it. One of my delavayi seedlings is similar, but not so well defined. Is this more of a variety of delavayi, or are they seperate, or is this unresolved?
Thanks, again,
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Jamie ,
a other information :
P.maireii is always one of the earliest flowering peonies
Both ( P.maireii + P.obovata ) like more shady conditions ....
P. lutea ( the true P.lutea ) differs from P.delavayii :
It makes stolonens
Always more or less yellow
Always smaller than delavayii
P.delavayii makes easy seeds .....P.lutea not so well ( this is maybe the reason whay this true plants are rare )
No problem -I'm glad if I can help !!!
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Dimitri - lovely P. daurica plant, it shows the undulate leaves that Hans commented on but not as wavy as the plant at Leicester (which looked more like some ornamental cabbages!). Beautiful tenuifolia 'Flore Pleno' too, I've rarely seen such good flowers as that; they seem to be quite delicate and turn black at the petal tips if frosted.
Hans & Jaimie - great pictures and interesting comments. P. mairei is becoming more available over here. My plant came from Will McLewin's Phedar Nursery http://www.phedar.com/catalog/
Picture below is old image of P. potaninii at Cambridge Botanic Garden where it is spreading to form a nice low ground cover.
Angie - sorry your mlokosewitschii is not so good this year. I don't regularly fertilize peonies in the ground but if one is not doing so well a high potash, tomato type feed will certainly do no harm and may help. The other thing to consider is if the plant may be getting overcrowded. Molly can cope with a certain amount of shade and indeed looks lovely in woodland but does tend to give more generous flowerings in sunshine.
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Thanks Gail for the advice, my molly is in full sun but maybe because there are a lot of other plants too close to it its maybe struggling a little. I think I will give it a little feed.
I was thinking last year well if it produced 23 flowers what can I expect in 2010 maybe 30 flowers ::) but I suppose I should be happy I still have it after this really cold winter. Its not yet open and after having hail storms the other day I am glad its late this year.
I keep forgetting how to re size my pictures ( not good with computers ) I will see if someone can show me again and I shall post some pictures of my peony's.
Angie :)
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Here a some new pics and a other interesting story ......
Before many years Will McLewin send me a little seedling of a P.rockii ....on the label was written :
P.rockii from orginal seed ex Stern ( F2)
The plant grows slow and in last year I had first flowers ....in this year some flowers more :D
Now after reading the book from Will understand I a little more - there is written that Mr. Rock has sent to Mr. Stern a letter - ( there is also a pic from the lamasery from 1925 ) from this plants has collect Mr.Rock the first P.rockii seeds .....and I'm really happy to have material of the orginal P.rockii !!!
Will has given now this plants of P.rockii which growing in Highdown in the garden from Mr.Stern the cultivar name P.rockii 'Highdown'
If anybody is more interestet so please read the book from Will !!!
Here is my plant :
Paeonia rockii ex Highdown
Enjoy
Hans
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I have a potful of paeonia rockii seeds which I am hoping will germinate sooner rather than later and after viewing your photographs Hans I am even more anxious that this beautiful plant will oblige and come into my garden.
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Paeony seedlings of any kind are well worth the wait, I reckon, but any rockii is more so!
Perfect photos of perfect flowers, Hans... and such a good provenance to put icing on the cake! 8)
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some wild paeonies in my garden...
peregrina ?
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/f9993e999dbdee6bffff801bfffffff0.jpg?t=1274029541)
my big lutea...
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/f9993e999dbdee6bffff801afffffff0.jpg?t=1274029569)
wildpaeonie mascula ?
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/Bild013-13.jpg?t=1274029639)
mlokosewitschii
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/bildereigenergarten001-12.jpg?t=1274029833)
tenuifolia
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/bildereigenergarten004-8.jpg?t=1274029882)
delavayi from seed
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/bildereigenergarten002-12.jpg?t=1274029941)
regards
chris
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Thanks for showing these fabulous paeonia flowering so sumptuously...
Your delavayi from seed is stunning Christian.
Hans, your Paeonia rockii 'Highdown' is to die for - this is my all time favourite paeony and to have the history attached to your beautiful plant is extra special, I have downloaded your photo to have a daily fix :D
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Robin:
Please do NOT die for this P.rockii ...we need you here ;)
There is no problem to send you seeds in fall from my P.rockii !!!
I have seen my first P.rockii in year 1998 in Italy ( Centro Botanico Moutan ) .....the price for a flowering plant was 480 DM ......
In meantime I have many of P.rockii here in my garden -like you I love them really !!!
But this plant is not only a beauty - it is a very good garden plant- never I had a problem with them -they really hardy and much better for cold climates like P.suffruticosa or P.ostii
Hans
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Paeony seedlings of any kind are well worth the wait, I reckon, but any rockii is more so!
Perfect photos of perfect flowers, Hans... and such a good provenance to put icing on the cake! 8)
Many thanks for your compliment Maggi ;D
As you know I'm a little crazy for peonies ....my problem is only the room in my garden :'(
Do you mean 'Black forest cherry cake' ?
Hans 8)
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There is no problem to send you seeds in fall from my P.rockii !!!
Oh Hans, I would be so thrilled to receive some seeds from you of your P rockii - what a challenge it would be to raise a plant from your stock and you imply as regards cold it would be OK in the Alps?
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Robin
please look in my seed offer list .....I will list them in fall
I have just looked in my books ....there is written :
the home of P.rockii are the provinces Gansu ,Shaanxi,Henan,Hubei
the altitude is 1000 -3000 m
summer max. 40°
winter min. - 25° ( winter is from September - Mai )
around 36° latitude
If you find time so please visit the "Col de Lautaret" ...( 2000 m) ...you will find there a botanical garden with a lot of peonies !!!
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robin,
thanks...
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"Col de Lautaret"
What an amazing botanical garden! I would love to visit one day...meanwhile many thanks Hans for your advice and I'll keep a note to watch for your seed list later in the year
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Robin ,
I have vist "Col de Lautaret" several times -it is fantastic.
For peonies you can look in the nursery of Riviere - a very good nursery !!!
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Before many years Will McLewin send me a little seedling of a P.rockii ....on the label was written :P.rockii from orginal seed ex Stern ( F2)
Now after reading the book from Will understand I a little more - there is written that Mr. Rock has sent to Mr. Stern a letter - ( there is also a pic from the lamasery from 1925 ) from this plants has collect Mr.Rock the first P.rockii seeds .....and I'm really happy to have material of the orginal P.rockii !!!
Will has given now this plants of P.rockii which growing in Highdown in the garden from Mr.Stern the cultivar name P.rockii 'Highdown'
Here is my plant :
Paeonia rockii 'Highdown'
Enjoy
Hans
Stunning plant Hans, that is such a beautiful flower, but as I understand it 'Highdown' is a clonal name, so can only be used for plants propagated vegetatively from the original plant and you say yours is a seedling? The original plant of 'Highdown' died but Ivan Dickings, formerly plant propagator at Notcutts nursery and now president of the Suffolk Group of Plant Heritage, had taken some scions of the peony in 2008. He has recently returned a grafted plant to the Highdown garden. There is a useful article on rockii here - http://www.paeon.de/h2006/rocks_peony.html
I was lucky enough to be able to visit Ivan's own garden where he has some fantastic peonies including a specimen of the lipstick pink 'Sybil Stern' named for Lady Stern and several rockii-type.
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Chris - some lovely plants there, your tenuifolia is a really good specimen. You may want to keep an eye on the ?peregrina plant. That brown blotch on the leaf can be an indication of peony botrytis which can spread very quickly. I usually remove and bin or burn any suspect foliage. See http://plantclinic.cornell.edu/FactSheets/botrytis/botrytis_peony.htm
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gail, many thank“s...i“ll be careful...
regards
chris
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Thank you Gail !
shure you are right with the clonal name ....I have it correctet in P.rockii ex Highdown
This information with Mr.Dickings is also writtten in the book of Will .
I know Carsten and his peony project well ....I have also worked some time for this german peony group .
Great pics of the P.rockii from Ivans garden
Hans
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here are two of my favorite peonies from today :
Paeonia 'Gauguin' ( a breeding from Nassos Daphnis)
Paeonia 'Lavender' ( a breeding from Prof. Saunders)
enjoy
Hans
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Enjoying your peonies, - cant wait till mine open, molly about there but the others are running late this year.
Angie :)
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here are two of my favorite peonies from today :
Paeonia 'Gauguin' ( a breeding from Nassos Daphnis)
Paeonia 'Lavender' ( a breeding from Prof. Saunders)
enjoy
Hans
Lovely Hans - you are lucky to have 'Lavender', there are not many plants of it around. Does it fade to a bluer colour?
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Gail ;)
yes ....Lavender is pretty rare -I have it from a friend from USA
the flowers are fresh open ....they will fade later
But : Lavender is a strain ...not a single clone !
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here is a pic from my Lavender from 2008 :
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What beauties - I really like Paeonia 'Gauguin' too - lipstick red and the central boss is superb :)
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Robin :
N.Daphnis has made many beautiful breedings ....the problem is to get them ( they are rare and expensiv )
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Here is a pic of my Paeonia mlokosewitschii
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And some pictures of more Peonies.
The Paeonia rockii is from wild collected seed of J.J. Halda.
The Paeonia rockii seedlings are now in their 4th year of groth exclusive the year of germination. Thei have developed well and the first flowered last year. I have already removed severel of them because they are too close to each other. I planted them to a hedge... I am excited how they are doing! :-)
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Last for today are some really lovely P. wittmanniana ssp. macrophylla. Their pure early white flowers are always impressing. Nevertheless the robust stature of the plant. It flowered here in Switzerland around April the 20th.
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Hans - love the softer colour of the Lavender as it fades. I hadn't realised it was a strain.
Lukas - some lovely plants you've got. The rockii looks a really nice form and the P. wittmanniana ssp. macrophylla is perfect!
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Gail - here is a pic of my group from my 'Lavender' from today :D
I love this cultivar and so I had before some years the idea to repeat this cross from Saunders ( coriacea x lactiflora ) .....the pollination was succsessfull and I have rised one seedling ....I hope he will flower in next year .
In this time I had a P.coriacea ( in meantime lost ) and I used a P.lactiflora 'White Wings' for this cross ...the leaves looks like a intermediate between both species
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Here's my Paeonia anomala.
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Hans - I will be interested to see pictures if your cross flowers next year.
David - nice looking plant, I do get the veitchii/anomala plants muddled. For anyone else similarly confused there is an interesting Canadian site - http://www.peony.ca/species/anomala.htm
Flowering here now is another with a confusing nomenclature. Grown from AGS seed as P. ostii this is sometimes called Feng Dan Bai instead but whatever the name it is a good robust plant that survived my husband dropping a large willow limb on it.
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David - nice looking plant, I do get the veitchii/anomala plants muddled. For anyone else similarly confused there is an interesting Canadian site - http://www.peony.ca/species/anomala.htm
Thanks Gail. You might be interested in the discussion we had last year on veitchii/anomala here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3114.135
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David ,
sorry ...but your plant looks really not like a P.anomala - it is shure a P.veitschii
It is really a shame how many wrong named plants or hybrids are in the collections
Hans
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According to the Flora of China (and, I suspect, the upcoming monograph) P. veitchii has been reduced to a subspecies of P. anomala - so naming it P. anomala would not be incorrect.
1 Flowers solitary, terminal, rarely 1 or 2 underdeveloped flower buds also present in axils of distal leaves 14a subsp. anomala (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242000586)
+ Flowers (1 or)2--4 per shoot, both terminal and axillary, usually 1--3 underdeveloped flower buds also present in axils of distal leaves 14b subsp. veitchii (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242000587)
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David ,
sorry ...but your plant looks really not like a P.anomala - it is shure a P.veitschii
It is really a shame how many wrong named plants or hybrids are in the collections
Hans
Hi Hans, they seem to be mixed up. Maybe this will put matters to rights.
http://www.cababstractsplus.org/abstracts/Abstract.aspx?AcNo=20043099334
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And the full paper as a .pdf is available for free here:
A TAXONOMIC REVISION OF THE PAEONIA ANOMALA COMPLEX (PAEONIACEAE) (http://foc.bio-mirror.cn/novon/mobt-91-01-87.pdf)
They also reduce P. beresowskii and P. veitchii v. woodwardii to synonyms of P. anomala ssp. veitchii.
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Thank you David !
I know Mr. Hong De Yuan has written this book but I have it not seen .
here is interesting point:
I can not grow ( for longer time ) P.anomala in my garden - it seems my climate is not good for this species .
I had several plant of P.anomala - partly grown from seeds ( they have flowered here ) but after few years they dies ....I had also plants from Finland from a friends ....they like also not my conditions.
Also I had no luck with P.sinijangensis
From P.veitschii ( + P.beresowskii ) I have since some years plants- they grow without problems
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Thank you Arisamea for this PDF !
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The Belle is back... Paeonia 'Buckeye Belle'. The buds just started to open today... about an hour later the had opened lots more. They should be fully expanded in another day. Among the most deep black-red of peonies.
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Flowers on P. 'Buckeye Belle' fully open today.
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Lovely Mark - you're ahead of me. Mine is still in bud.
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Nice color Mark ::)
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Three Paeonia pictures from yesterdays visit to the RHS Garden here in Devon, Rosemoor.
Paeonia officianalis ssp. microcarpa
Paeonia rockii
Paeonia suffruticosa 'Cardinal Vaughan'
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Nice pics David !
.....now after near 3 weeks of rain the first sunny day :
Paeonia broteroi
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Hans,
P. broteroi has a wonderful blossom! I particularly like the darker shadings in the centre.
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'Buckeye Belle' - that is one gorgeous lady! 8) 8)
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It was here when I moved in, 10yrs ago...
I assume it's P.officinalis 'Rubra Plena'
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It was here when I moved in, 10yrs ago...
I assume it's P.officinalis 'Rubra Plena'
Correct assumption - one of the classics, a real good long lasting garden plant.
If anyone is Lincolnshire way and wants to see peonies I can recommend Jo Bennison's nursery at East Firsby. She has a lovely collection of plants, beautifully grown, including a number of the new Itoh hybrids, and has open days 29/31st May, 5/6th & 12/13 June. See http://www.bennisonpeonies.co.uk/index.htm
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That link is great, Gail... what a nice website and what super paeonies. The photo on the home page looks like an old master painting.... really gorgeous.... and I'm not a "doubles" person, as a rule but paeonies are , somehow, different! 8)
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The lutea hybrids are starting to open. Here is the classic 'Souvenir de Maxime Cornu', with one of its drooping flowers.
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P. officinalis from wild-collected seed (Hans Joschko) in the Hautes Alpes (France). I love the colour 8)
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Hans,
A very beautiful clone! Mine from (other source) seed is much paler. Still pretty, though.
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We had The Peony Society AGM at Wisley on Sunday. I didn't take many pictures but this planting of Paeonia tenuifolia caught my eye. Two mature plants of P. rockii were attracting a lot of attention by the walled garden.
My own rockii-type, grown from AGS seed, is flowering now. The flowers are not as large as the Highdown plant but are nicely frilly. And I've got first flowers on P. 'Lydia Foote' - a hybrid plant with rockii blood from Sir Peter Smithers.
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We had The Peony Society AGM at Wisley on Sunday. I didn't take many pictures but this planting of Paeonia tenuifolia caught my eye.
Gail! It isn't P. tenuifolia at all. It is P. hybrida Pall. - endemic species of SE of Western Siberia and Eastern Kazakhstan mntns.
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Blooming today in the garden, Paeonia peregrina. I am a bit proud of this plant, as I raised it from seed and it is not a disappointment! I have brought so many plants to flowering over the years, only to discard them as inferior clones. This one is just beautiful, so I had to share. ;D 8)
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some pics from today :
one of my peony borders
P. 'Chocolate Soldier'
P. officinalis flore plena forms : Rubra Plena + Rosea Plena + Alba Plena
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hi, some pics of my paeonia delavayi seedling....
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/Bild018-10.jpg?t=1274802199)
(http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt188/yuccajoe/Bild019-10.jpg?t=1274802219)
cheers
chris
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Jamie, that is a beautiful P. peregrina! So there is a luck-factor in raising Paeonies from seed.
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We had The Peony Society AGM at Wisley on Sunday. I didn't take many pictures but this planting of Paeonia tenuifolia caught my eye.
Gail! It isn't P. tenuifolia at all. It is P. hybrida Pall. - endemic species of SE of Western Siberia and Eastern Kazakhstan mntns.
Thanks for that Dimitri. I was sent a copy of Hong De-Yuan's new peony monograph 'Peonies of the World' but sadly had to pass it onto a Peony Society member for review; I should have studied it more closely before passing it on. It certainly seems to be an authoritative work, Hong has examined more that 5,000 herbarium specimens and studied all but one species in the wild. http://www.kewbooks.com/asps/ShowDetails.asp?id=844
I shall have to invest in my own copy sometime. Unfortunately it costs £90 and so if I drop unsubtle hints before my birthday my husband is likely to go deaf.
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Gail,
You might also want to drop hints about 'Pionit' by Rea Peltola and Vesa Koivu.
It in Finnish (and I had to order it from Finland) but it has the most stunning 'arty' peony photography I've seen.
Dew, mist, early morning sun etc, etc...
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What super plants are in flower now in the north. The P. peregrina is especially good Jamie, almost scarlet. An the rockii is a stunner too. Thanks to everyone for sharing their reasures. :)
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Gail,
You might also want to drop hints about 'Pionit' by Rea Peltola and Vesa Koivu.
It in Finnish (and I had to order it from Finland) but it has the most stunning 'arty' peony photography I've seen.
Dew, mist, early morning sun etc, etc...
Giles - I was really blessed because Rea actually sent me a copy! It is my absolute favourite of my many peony books; I don't understand the Finnish, except the botanical names (!) but it is such a beautiful book to look through.
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This one is just beautiful, so I had to share. ;D 8)
OK!! i am ready ;D ;D
seriously it is a real beauty
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A few herbaceous hybrids from the last week or so made a cheerful sight ...
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Dear Gail and Oakwood,
This what you have supposed to be P. hybrida is Paeonia 'Early Bird' (tenuifolia x anomala)
Paeonia anomala subsp. intermedia (syn. hybrida) is much paler and has broader leaves. http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3114.150
All the best
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Could you show a picture please of 'Early Bird.' I have it but not flowered yet. Thanks.
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This is a picture of 'Early Bird' taken at Binny Plants in Scotland last year. I would have said it is different to the Wisley plant.....
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Oh dear. Not alpine. Not subtle! That's not a finger holding the flower, that's my arm.
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Lesley here is what we grow as Early Bird in Canada. From last year. Flowers stand up well without support in light shade.....so long as there is no rain.
-Rob
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This seedling has been improving over the last few years. It is similar in stature to Early Bird and produces seed as a bonus, whereas Early Bird is a dud as far as seed is concerned.
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Oh dear. Not alpine. Not subtle! That's not a finger holding the flower, that's my arm.
Maybe not subtle but gorgeous! Is that Rimpo?
Lovely plants Rob. There seem to be a lot of tenuifolia hybrids being released in the States now but they are not seen much over here yet.
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Oh dear. Not alpine. Not subtle! That's not a finger holding the flower, that's my arm.
Maybe not subtle but gorgeous! Is that Rimpo?
Lovely plants Rob. There seem to be a lot of tenuifolia hybrids being released in the States now but they are not seen much over here yet.
In the photo below from 14th May is a US-bred tenuifolia hybrid (still a young division) called 'Little Red Gem', which was a gift from Reaths Nursery in Michigan USA but which is available in the UK from Binny Plants. It seems much more shade-tolerant and is more vigorous than the species especially here in South Devon where it's far too wet in Summer for the species to be really happy. It's extremely hardy and like all Paeonia, needs loads of root space and a deeply prepared well-drained soil with plenty of organic matter to perform well in the longer term.
Planted with sweetly scented Dwarf Bearded Iris 'Lilli white', Paeonia Mlokosewiczii [Paul Christian] and Rhododendron 'Barnaby Sunset', which flower for me at the same time. In the background behind the Rhododendron you can just about make the cream-flowered Paeonia (W. var) Macrophylla [Paul Christian], a very strong-stemmed architectural species with huge leaves (as you'd expect from the name !), which is in the parentage of some of the most sought-after US hybrids.
The photo doesn't really do the colour justice - a bit of shade accentuates the beautiful glowing cherry red colour, which catches your eye from right across the garden. Little Red Gem is one of my favourite Paeonia.
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Early Bird is really dramatic Rob - a wonderful intense colour and I love the open form.
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What a beautiful planting combination Kim heightening your Little Red Gem - thanks for showing it in your garden.
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"Straight" P. tenuifolia struggles here so I must try Binny Plants to see if 'Little Red Gem' might like life in Aberdeen.
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May I ask what Paeonia could it be?
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_35d8d961.jpg)
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_11a72ecf.jpg)
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_f73c5978.jpg)
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May I ask what Paeonia could it be?
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_35d8d961.jpg)
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_11a72ecf.jpg)
(http://cs9312.vkontakte.ru/u6450879/20107304/x_f73c5978.jpg)
Definitely looks like a 1st generation tenuifolia hybrid. Could be a mature specimen of L.R.G. (?) as it's been widely available in cultivation for a long time, but there are several others that are similar form. Check out the link below ..
http://www.oldheirloomroses.com/Peony/Little_Red_Gem.htm
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"Straight" P. tenuifolia struggles here so I must try Binny Plants to see if 'Little Red Gem' might like life in Aberdeen.
Good luck with that - I'd plant it in full sun in Aberdeen though, Maggi !
Binny's 2010 list also had another dwarf rock garden Paeonia hybrid called 'Picotee' that's very beautiful too and might be worth seeking out if you order from them. A very interesting hybrid [P. corsica x P. macrophylla], it was originally introduced by Saunders in 1949. 'Picotee' has crimson stems (colour lasts right through to dormancy), large leaves for such a small plant making a good contrast with the tenuifolia types, and white single flowers that are stained/edged pink. Becomes wider than it is tall and, unusually for Peonies, it grows well in large pots too.
Looking at their prices, I may be wrong but someone may possibly have been tissue-culturing it to bring the price down as they have been doing with the Intersectionals.. I got mine from USA a coupe of years ago as full root-divisions and a reliable German supplier is asking 3 1/2 times Binny's catalogue price, but you could be onto a real bargain if it's the genuine article !
The pink staining fades quite quickly in full sun (lasts longer with a bit of shade) and is unfortunately bleached out on my photo taken in very bright sun (25th May), but you get some idea of the form from the picture. Grows vigorously for me.
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Great info, Kim ,thanks.
Yes, the problem of finding enough sun up here and in our garden in particular is tricky one. ::) :-[ :-X :(
I keep trying, of course ....lots of seed from Hans J. to encourage me :)
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Kimjy thank you very much! But it is not red and it is not little. :) It is about 135 sm high. Sorry I didn't said it before. I also have P. tenuifolia - it is very different. This unknown peony looks closer to P. anomala.
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Olga :
for me looks your plant more also like a P.anomala !
I think this species is well distributet in your country....
Kimjy :
I'm not so shure that P. 'Little Red Gem' so much P.tenuifolia blood .....but it is really a nice plant
This is what I found ithe web :
LITTLE RED GEM (David Reath, Vulcan, Michigan), March 1988. Hybrid, first bloomed 1980. Seedling #G-9. Parentage Gwenda F2 x self. A new rock garden peony, a single light red; blooms very early with tenuifolia season. 12-18" in height, fine cut foliage, dwarf, mound type, blooms above dwarf plants. Slender strong stems. Bulletin #266.
To P.'Picotee'
It is difficould with the crosses from Saunders - I have read he used plants for his crosses which he has received under this names ....but it is not shure that this the true species or hybrids or wrong named plants ....
Anyway - he made a lot of wonderful crosses and I'm a big fan of his plants
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Hi Lukas
I have read in your former posting that :
"P. veitchii ssp. altaica (ex. beresowskii) (has larger flowers and a taller habit, 4-5 carpels, altai mountains)"
I dont understand this synonym - P.beresowski comes not from Altai Mts. !
After my informations has M.Beresowski found this plants (1894 )in Sichuan ( Sungpan region )
P.altaica grows in the same area ( Altai) like P.sinjangensis
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Hans
Yes it is very distributed in nature but not well in gardens. I had been looking for it for 2 years before I found it. I have true P. anomala - it differs. ??? Oakwood think it is P. hybrida (species). ???
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Olga
It is always difficould to say from pics .....
In other hand I have seen pics of P.anomala which look exactly like your plant
I think we must understand that this plants ( P.anomala ) has such a big distribution ...so they shure not uniform in all population
I can say nothing to P.hybrida - never seen in nature
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Kimjy thank you very much! But it is not red and it is not little. :) It is about 135 sm high. Sorry I didn't said it before. I also have P. tenuifolia - it is very different. This unknown peony looks closer to P. anomala.
Not sure on that one then, Olga .. the camera can be very misleading !! at 1.35m that must be a very beautiful sight indeed - I expect it really likes your climate. P. anomala seems to have been used for plants which are now classified differently, such as veitchii, and it is all a bit confusing I must admit .. the closest hybrid to this I know which is meant to have been around in cultivation since 19th Century is 'Smouthii' - thought to be a "P. anomala" hybrid and can easily reach 1m+. So could be this or something similar ?
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I'm not so shure that P. 'Little Red Gem' so much P.tenuifolia blood .....but it is really a nice plant
This is what I found ithe web :
LITTLE RED GEM (David Reath, Vulcan, Michigan), March 1988. Hybrid, first bloomed 1980. Seedling #G-9. Parentage Gwenda F2 x self. A new rock garden peony, a single light red; blooms very early with tenuifolia season. 12-18" in height, fine cut foliage, dwarf, mound type, blooms above dwarf plants. Slender strong stems. Bulletin #266.
To P.'Picotee'
It is difficould with the crosses from Saunders - I have read he used plants for his crosses which he has received under this names ....but it is not shure that this the true species or hybrids or wrong named plants ....
Anyway - he made a lot of wonderful crosses and I'm a big fan of his plants
Thanks Hans. Little Red Gem is indeed meant to be a self of Gwenda (an F2), which in turn was Saunders 14079. Gwenda was 2nd generation (reciprocal) cross Tenuifolia x Mlokosewitschii, so there seems only 2 species in the background of LRG. The tenuifolia characteristics show much more clearly in this hybrid but it's basically a result of selective interbreeding between tenuifolia & mloko.
Re picotee it's always difficult with the early crosses though Saunders was much better than many. Rather like great paintings it would have been good to know more about the original provenance of his mother plants. I guess even if the plants used in the cross were as listed I think the 'corsica' may also be called P. mascula subsp. russoi. Macrophylla also now probably P. daurica var. Macrophylla rather than P. Wittmaniana var Macrophylla. Plants with the registered leaf characteristics of P. ? Macrophylla seem pretty uncommon whichever way ! I agree Saunders introduced many beautiful plants - If you know of anyone who has successfully propogated T.P. 'Coronal' recently please let me know .. I am still trying to get hold of it after 4 years' global search. it is only 30" tall after several years (great focal point in a rock garden ?) and extremely difficult to graft successfully. Also looking for its child (Calypso F2 - Daphnis 1974) for possible future breeding.
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Kimjy
Yes - I know the story of Gwenda ....
In the book from Riviere is written that Saunders has importet his species from Europe and in this time was travel not so easy ....so we dont know what is happend.
After my informations flowers P.'Little Red Gem' 2 weeks later than P.tenuifolia .....
To your search - You could ask several people ....I will give you some ideas
Good Luck
Hans
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Kimjy
In the book from Riviere is written that Saunders has importet his species from Europe and in this time was travel not so easy ....so we dont know what is happend.
To your search - You could ask :
in Germany :
Irmtraud Rieck
Thanks Hans - I have not read the Riviere book yet so will get a copy and should make interesting reading. I have not been able to find a contact for Imtraud Rieck - if you are able to point me in the right direction (my e-mail is logged) that would be very helpful. I am in contact with the others but sadly no luck as yet with the "wish list" !
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Kimjy
I have written you a PM
Hans
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Kimjy
I have written you a PM
Hans
Thanks a lot Hans.
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Dear Hans,
My nomenclatur and infos about the anomala complex are out of Halda's book the genus Paeonia.
And there is P. veitchii var. altaica with the synonym P. beresowskii.
In the metioned Post, there are severel Plants of the anomala complex. But the naming is always diffucult, because there are so many opinions...
There should someone bring light to this mess.
But I am not a friend of the theory that if a plant has 150 except of the normal 100 hairs on a carpel to give this plant a specific rank...
You could also argue, that all is one species including all these "species" like singjiangensis, hybrida, intermedia, altaica, beresowskii, anomala, veitchii, woodwardii and severel others.
I have only seen plants of beresowskii in culture, but they are higher than other plants of this complex, but thei are still close to veitchii and anomala.
In the end I can say that however you want to label your plant this complex has very beautiful plants and they deserve our attention! :-)
I grow about seven plants of this complex and they are all very lovely in their own way.
Greetings
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Kimjy, Hans
Thank you!
There was P. amomala selection in times of Soviet Union. Probably it could be one of that sorts.
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Hi Lukas ,
I dont agree with Halda .....and I'm not a big fan of him !!!
I have seen and grown seedlings from him - they are mostly missnamed !
p.e. : I have grown from him P.lactiflora w.c.seeds .....this plant has flowered after some years and it was a silly double white flowering P.lactiflora .....it was a waste of time and room to rise this plants and it is not fair from him to sell such seeds .
Hans
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Olga ,
I had yesterday a long phone call about your plant with a other german plant friend ....we are still puzzling ...
I have also asked him about P.x smouthii and he told me it is not so high as P.tenuifolia
Anyway - your plant is beautiful ;D
Hans
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This is a picture of 'Early Bird' taken at Binny Plants in Scotland last year. I would have said it is different to the Wisley plant.....
The foliage n this one is the same as on mine. I hope it will flower this coming spring so will be able to compare.
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'Little Red Gem' is wonderful. We have a couple of good paeony nuseries locally which I've not visited but I'll be setting that right in the spring. Sharon and Bob, your 'Early Bird' has super flowers. I hope mine is like that rather than the other. And I love yours Olga, a brilliant plant both in flower and foliage.
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Olga ,
I had yesterday a long phone call about your plant with a other german plant friend ....we are still puzzling ...
I have also asked him about P.x smouthii and he told me it is not so high as P.tenuifolia
Anyway - your plant is beautiful ;D
Hans
Yes it;'s really very special. Adelmans in USA report Smouthii height as 36inches - taller than tenuifolia - but who knows whether theirs is what it purports to be either !! but really with a plant so beautiful I would just appreciate it for what it is - and hope it sets some seeds !! Taller plant and finely divided leaves are a very attractive combination. Vigour is often associated with hybridization so I still think a 1.35m height with this presentation suggests some gene mixing - maybe the bees were behind the result ? I would not complain any way you look at it even if it remains an enigma !
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Ian will be at Gardening Scotland for the BBC over the weekend and I have prepared a note for him of plants to look out for on the Binny's stall! Hope he a) remembers to look and b) is successful! ::)
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Maybe not subtle but gorgeous! Is that Rimpo?
The thread has moved on a little, but yes that is Rimpo.
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today is flowering very late a peony for me :D
It is a bit puzzling for me :o
the flowers a pretty dark ( similar like a P.delavayii ) but it is without doubt not a P.delavayii
The plants have a height of 80 cm ....and the flowers are small ( 3,5 cm diameter )
I have received this plant as P.potanini red ....
My other P.potanini ( f.alba + a selfgrown seedling have flowered one month earlier ...that really a surprise !
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4975.msg151812#msg151812
Paonia potaninii "red" (....maybe this is a P.delavayi v.angustilobia )
Hans
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Hans, it looks similar to one I've grown from seed that was labelled P. delavayi Potaninii Group. Later flowering than most of my delavayi group. I've just nipped out to take photos but it is windy today so not good quality...
The other plant is one I bought in 2005 from Pottertons as P. potaninii ACE 1047 (although I think second generation). Nice fine leaves on this one. It flowered for the first time last year and I was amazed that it didn't open until July. It is still in tight bud now but looks as though will open before end of month!
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Gail , it's interesting !
grows your plant single or make it suckers ?
single is typical for P.delavayi
suckers are typical P.potanini
what is the height of your plant ?
I do not understand why the white flowering form is one month earlier .....
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70 cm tall and no suckers so far.
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Gail ... ???
wait ....either it is in next years 1,5 m .....or it has suckers !
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I remember P potaninii in the garden when I was a child as small, late flowering and very upright, stiff upright branches. Our plant was about four feet tall, (a little over 1meter) and 10 or twelve years old. It had small dark red flowers with a black centre (the anthers? (memory from 25 years)) The petals overlaped each other as in Hans'spicture but not Gail's. we did have another short suckering tree paeony, but of the shrubby ones, no other was so small or neat in growth.The leaves were finely cut and small for a tree paeony. Now I am growing a young ACE plant from Pottertons which is similar, I seem to remember him telling me there were different coulor strains or else that the coulor was variable. when I came accross the plant more recently, yellow flowerd varients were a great surprise!
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Knows maybe anyone what means
ACE 1047 ?
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ACE = AGS CHINA EXPEDITION IN 1994.
Hans - the species of number 1047 was still not identified in the sheet the AGS put out 1997.
johnw
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Many thanks John !
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ACE = AGS CHINA EXPEDITION IN 1994.
Hans - the species of number 1047 was still not identified in the sheet the AGS put out 1997. johnw
I have the field notes for all the ACE collection, quoted below if you are interested.
ACE 1047 Paeonia potaninii
Yunnan, Western Hils Forest Park. 2.400m. among limestone rocks. Woody based sub-shrub to 60cm with long suckering shoots. Flowers yellow, seeds black. Collected 20.9.94
As Gail says, as she bought it from Pottertons in 2005, then it is almost certainly at least second generation so perhaps should be labelled
ex ACE 1047
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Diane - Was a more recent sheet sent out? There are very few numbers on the one I received in 1997. I'd be interested in it if it's emailable.
johnw
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Diane :
many thanks -thats interesting !
:-\ ..but not P.delavayi ( suckering shoots + yellow flowers + 60 cm )
maybe P.lutea or P.trollioides
Gail :
I hope your plants has also yellow flowers !!!
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I have the field notes for all the ACE collection
Diane - Was a more recent sheet sent out? There are very few numbers on the one I received in 1997. I'd be interested in it if it's emailable.
johnw
No, it's from the original Field notes that were sent out in March 1995 to all subscribers to the ACE expedition. I have the documentation because of my job for the seed exchange. I also have an updated list from September 1996 with some name corrections and some names previously identified as sp.
If anyone is interested, I also have all the field notes for the AGS/MESE expedition which went to Macedonia and Epiros in 1999. This collection was not on subscription, but was offered to all participating in the AGS seed exchange.
Unfortunately none of this information is in electronic format but I am happy to give you information on any numbers you are interested in. One day when I have time (;D ;D) I will try and put it all together into an electronic document
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A paeony flowering in my garden from seed labled Paeonia daurica, any one know if this is correct? I am not familiar with daurica.
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Peter,
that is not daurica. It looks like a ludlowii hybrid, section Moutan. Nice flower. Maybe Hans can add more info.
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Peter
I agree full with Jamie - thats not P.daurica ( look in older topics there are pics )
It is not 100% shure to say what is your plant ....maybe lutea or potaninii ( = delavayii v. angustilobia )
How big is your plant ?
Makes it stolonnes ?
The late flowering time could be a advice for P.potanini ...or as Jamie says a hybrid with P.ludlowii ...
Wait some years so that this plants can reach the full size
Hans
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Thanks Jamie, Hans.
"If it seems too good to be true it usually is" -it's a good plant though, it has been in flower for a month and still a bud or two on it, also the leaves are quite finely divided. :-\
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Gail :
I hope your plants has also yellow flowers !!!
It is flowering now, and yes, it is yellow.
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Gail :
my compliment !!!
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Lovely Gail, It looks a bit like my seedling though,- any thoughts Hans, Jamie?
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Peter ,
yes they are similar ( and also same flowering time )
I wrote you that your plant could be P.potanini
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Does anyone have the P. emodi hybrids 'Early Windflower' &/or 'Late Windflower' and if so, do they set fertile seed? I bought a plant supposedly of P. emodi from Paul Christian about 15 years ago and a friend who has one from the same source said it was actually one of the Windflowers. It certainly is a very vigorous plant and has never set seed which may indicate a hybrid origin. The very similar plant at Beth Chattos used to be labelled P. emodi but they have recently changed that to 'Late Windflower' and I bought one from the nursery to compare with mine. I was surprised today to notice two fertile seeds on the Beth Chatto plant so I checked my original plant and found one seed on that one (out of 50+ flowers).
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Gail,
I, too, have an 'emodi' from P. Christian, and have been advised it is actually one of the Windflowers, although it was sold as the Highdown clone of P. emodi. I have a second clone from a China import that does bloom a week or two later and seems to be the species. After I obtained my second clone, the first plant did set a few seed, much as you have described, through cross pollination, although the reverse cross didn't take. I suspect that, yes, we both received an 'Early Windflower' instead of the species. I must say, it is a superior clone and certainly deserves the rather large area it takes up, but would have preferred to get the 'real thing'! Another case of live and learn. It does produce many more flowers than the species for me.
Jamie
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Hi Gail + Jamie ,
I have two big plants of P.emodi ....the true species !
One is grown from seed ex northern Afganistian ....the other is from Will Mclewin
I have each year a lot of seeds ....if anybody is interstet so please feel free to send me a PM
Hans
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Hello everybody,
This spring I have taken some pictures, of a plant which is in my opinion a Hybrid between delavayi var. lutea and ludlowii. The leaves are very similar to ludlowii, but the color and the blotches are not of ludlowii origin. Beside the three carpels of on of the flowers.
What do you think?
Greetings
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Interesting Lukas - is it one you have raised yourself? It looks a bigger flower than those of my ludlowii plants and I like the blotches.
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Hello Gail,
No I have not raised this plant. It is growing in a collection where it was wrong labelled as ludlowii. But I knew that they tried some crossings. Therefore could the Seeds get mislabelled. In my opinion it is a beautyful cross. I am looking foreward to its growing habit if its getting more stoloniferous or more like ludlowii. The leaves are more or less ludlowii origin.
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:o this is not a joke :o
near each year in September is flowering again my Paeonia 'High Noon' with some few flowers ;D
the same behavior has also my P.delavayii ....
This pic is from today !
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An exquisite flower, Hans..... all the nicer for being "extra" 8)
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Maggi ,
it exist some cultivars which flower a second time in fall -we call this in german : remontieren
( sorry I dont know the word in english )
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Maggi, where is the other bit of this thread that has been split off? Still nothing showing up in my New topics. Ta. :)
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Maggi, where is the other bit of this thread that has been split off? Still nothing showing up in my New topics. Ta. :)
Leslie, are you looking for this?
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6004.msg165750#msg165750
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Maggi, where is the other bit of this thread that has been split off? Still nothing showing up in my New topics. Ta. :)
Leslie, are you looking for this?
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6004.msg165750#msg165750
That's the one, McMark, thanks for your help while I was sleeping! :D
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Hello peony fans ,
I have postet today my new offer with peony seeds :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4311.msg165971#msg165971
Hans
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Thanks Mark and Maggi.
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Good autumn colours coming on some of my tree peonies. This one was bought as 'Hei Hua Kui' but I'm not convinced by the naming.
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Thanks for posting, wonderful coloration! :)