Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: wooden shoe on February 09, 2010, 09:33:24 PM
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I have not encountered a new topic for Fritillaria yet. So hopefully this is at the right place.
I received one Fritillaria from the surplus seed exchange which I have not found much information about: Fritillaria sp. ex GORK. Does anyone know more about it?
Anyway, again lots of thanks for everyone who made the exchange posibble. It really made me happy!
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The GORK expedition of 2002 : This expedition was to the Altai Mountains by two persons from the Copenhagen Botanic Garden, Budde Christensen and Karin Busse.
That is as much as I know.... so a Frit. from the Altai...... :-\
Maybe a contact to the http://botanik.snm.ku.dk/ will help?
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What a superb potful - and picture - of Frit. davidii in the new Frit Group Bulletin! I had thought it might be one of those species which produce masses of foliage and only the occasional flower. Not so apparently. Imagine a 30cm pan with maybe 20 or more flowers. :P :P :P do we have a "Dream on" smiley? :D
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What a superb potful - and picture - of Frit. davidii in the new Frit Group Bulletin! I had thought it might be one of those species which produce masses of foliage and only the occasional flower. Not so apparently. Imagine a 30cm pan with maybe 20 or more flowers. :P :P :P do we have a "Dream on" smiley? :D
Oh, Leslie. With me only occasional flowers of F. davidii, but If you would see the huge pot exhibited by Wallis in spring 2008 densely covered with flowers... Incredible! My stoick comes from Wallis, but never had so abbundant blooming, although every year had some flowers.
Janis
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Just to get you droolin' Lesley, here's the plant that Janis refers to
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/shows/results/shows2007/shows/early/images/Doug_Joyce/sizedDSCN2332_4_3.JPG.html
Have fun !
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Oh God! Thank you Janis and Luc. The dribble is pouring down my chin and onto my trouser legs. Will have to get a towel. ;D
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Oh God! Thank you Janis and Luc. The dribble is pouring down my chin and onto my trouser legs. Will have to get a towel. ;D
Just use the dog, Lesley....
Here's a close up of the fab flowers of the frit, for those who may not know it... taken by Diane Clement from the Forum....http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=327.msg7562#msg7562 ....other mentions here and there, of course...... even allowing for the strange light in the show hall you can see the texture of flowers and leaves.
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Oh yes, a gorgeous thing. Odd that the leaves are so different, having lateral veins.
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Here's a close up of the fab flowers of the frit, for those who may not know it... taken by Diane Clement from the Forum....http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=327.msg7562#msg7562 ....other mentions here and there, of course...... even allowing for the strange light in the show hall you can see the texture of flowers and leaves.
I've tweaked it to try and improve that strange light, here is same plant from Luffbro' 2007. Yes, it has extraordinary leaves, gives it quite a reptilian look.
Fritillaria davidii
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The F. davidii from Bob & Rannveig is very impressive but not surprising - they have always grown frits superbly. I think they were among the first, if not the first, in the UK to successfully flower F.davidii.
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That fabulous pot was taken to several shows that same year apparantly.
If I remember correctly Rannveig told me that a year later, the same pot only gave one single flower... ???
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I have had my Davidii for over 4 years now,and still not a flower
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F. striata today, still going strong weeks after it first opened.
Alex
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A good form of F. ariana today. I'm raising a lot of seedlings from this, hope they are as large-flowered.
Alex
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That is GORGEOUS Alex. My seedlings all died in their second dormancy, I think because they got too wet last summer. They lived outdoors.
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Thanks, Lesley. I have another form which is very poor by comparison, small flowers. Since I get seed most years on this one I can certainly send you some more, assuming it does as it should again this Summer.
Alex
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I picked up a potted F. raddeana at the Oirlicher Galanthustagen yesterday and wanted to know what it prefers for ground. Should I treat it similar to F. imperialis? More moisture or less?
thanks
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In 2004 when I visited Iran, I collected seed of a Fritillaria growing near the Iraqi border. I gave some to Alan Edwards because he is an excellent grower of all things bulbous and other things as well.
The following photos show the very beautiful Frit in flower for the first year. I am advised by Bob & Rannveig that it is Fritillaria uva- vulpis aff. ???
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When I visited the Discussion Weekend last year, I was delighted to get some Fritillaria rice in the Bulb Exchange.
All have grown on and I show just 2 of the potfuls. these are a real bonus from what was an outstanding weekend.
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Very nice Frits Art !
Must be even more fun having collected the seed yourself ! :D
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I picked up a potted F. raddeana at the Oirlicher Galanthustagen yesterday and wanted to know what it prefers for ground. Should I treat it similar to F. imperialis? More moisture or less?
thanks
Jamie,
Because I'm not a frits specialist I unfortunately can't tell much concerning your question. My one and only Fritillaria raddeana did well in a larger plastic pot - in a 'normal' potting mix and 'normal' watering during growth. Not totally dry when in rest.
After I planted it in the open garden - full sun, good drainage caused by some trees and shrubs - neutral soil - it flowered beautifully one year, next year it disappeared.
I fear this isn't much but perhaps there is a more experienced grower who can add something which is of more help.
Gerd
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Gerd,
thanks! I'm gonna treat it like F. imperialis , which does well in certain parts of the garden and not others. Seems to like compost-rich moist soil, that dries off in the Summer.
Jamie
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The question about F. raddeana is really one the bulb despot could best answer. but my general impression (from very limited experience) is that raddeana prefers more moisture than imperialis, even when dormant. It should be quite frost hardy as it collapses in a good frost but perks up as the day goes on.
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Art, your aff. uva-vulpis is very attractive indeed. Do you think it could be a hybrid? I certainly wouldn't have thought of uva-vulpis even though the foliage is bright green and glossy.
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Good point about Art's frit. perhaps being a hybrid, Lesley... we wondered that too.
We find that F. raddeana does better for us in the garden than imperialis, for the most part! Nice sunny spot, well drained but not arid....just fine!
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Fritillaria raddeana grew outside for me in England and is happily bulking up from seedlings oustide here too. The site it is in is dry in summer, but as the bulbs are at least 20cm deep they will probably not be baked dry. Our F.imperialis do better in a more humic soil in part shade here.
Could Art's frit have a bit of pinardii in it? It looks like some of the pinardii forms I have from Buried Treasure.
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Maggi, Lesley, Simon
I was surprised when Bob & Rannveig said it was Frit uva-vulpis. Not aware of any other Frits growing nearby.
Bob & Rannveig showed a potful of something very similar at the Early Spring Show.
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Art, well I'd certainly think more like assyriaca than uva-vulpis. What is the stigma like? What was the plant at the show labelled as.
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Simon
Their pot was labelled Frit. uva-vulpis aff.
I attach a poor photo of the sexy bits, showing the stigma
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I've just had a look at Flora of Turkey. In Arthur's pic the style looks to be undivided so not F. assyriaca. I'd be inclined to go with Bob & Rannveig - they do know their frits.
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Well yes I agree Gerry, and sorry I was confusing my uva-vulpis and my assyriaca when comparing. It does make you wonder how many more Fritillaria affs are going to come out of Turkey though ;)
The Fritillaria book mentions F.assyriaca melanthera which has an entire style- but they say it has blackish anthers.
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Folks, here is a post from the thread on the Negev Desert:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5044.0 .....
which I know will be of interest to you... I suggest you keep an eye on that thread in future, lest you miss any gems!!
Oron writes today:
Weather was not favoured for taking photos today, it is cloudy and hot, never the less i have decided go back to the Negev, this time the North Eastern and Eastern parts.
The N.E. receive more rain falls generally there for Fritillaria persica grows there in large quantities.
This form is also known as F. arabica, there is a big variation in color and shape of the flower.
Here are just a few samples going from white to very dark chocolate color.
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Well yes I agree Gerry, and sorry I was confusing my uva-vulpis and my assyriaca when comparing. It does make you wonder how many more Fritillaria affs are going to come out of Turkey though ;)
The Fritillaria book mentions F.assyriaca melanthera which has an entire style- but they say it has blackish anthers.
My apologies Simon, I read the Flora carelessly & too quickly. Both uva vulpis & assyriaca have entire styles.
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Excited today to find the below - and 3 others like it - in my seedling pots of F. poluninii from Archibald seed (sowed 2006 I think, could be 2007, don't want to go outside to check!)
Alex
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That's exciting Alex. Another picture in a few days?
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Oh yes, all being well!
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Fritillaria Aurea.
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Michael
A beautiful flower with excellent markings. Does it get very tall? I really like the aurea that stay short.
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I got that one from J.R. a few years ago.it stays small like that every year.
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If you do like short Fritillaries, here are three from them.
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Lovely frits everyone. I especially love F. alburyana which flowers for me each year though hasn't increased at all. I love its beautiful chrystalline look, like rose quartz.
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If you do like short Fritillaries, here are three from them.
I like them very much :) Frit. alburyana is a real challenge to grow.
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If you do like short Fritillaries, here are three from them.
All three are stunning, wish i could grow them here.. :-\
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Congratulations Zdenek , 3 beautyful (and beautyfully grown)and compact Frits.
Lesley , you are fortunate to be able to flower F. alburyana , it does not like me , or rather the climate . The winters are not cold enough here - but I can flower F. latifolia &aurea
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If you do like short Fritillaries, here are three from them.
I love all Fritillaries but these that you have grown are quite exceptional Zdenek - thank you for posting such lovely photos of them :)
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Just one flower each year Otto, from 1 bulb. :'(
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My first fritillaria in flower: Fritillaria bucharica, a Central Asian species, in general distributed from NE-Afghanistan into the Pamir-Alai. This seedraised selection from Tadjikistan (altitude approx. 2400m) has wide-open green-tinted white flowers. Hight 20-25 cm. A fairly easy and hardy species for the bulbframe
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Very fine indeed, Luc!!
My first ever fritillary is starting to flower (F. latakiensis - 1 flower). One has to start somewhere :)
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Sounds like a good place to start, Chloe! There will be more in the furutre, I'm sure... the frits are as adddictive as every other plant!
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Sounds like a good place to start, Chloe! There will be more in the furutre, I'm sure... the frits are as adddictive as every other plant!
These plants aren't just addictive, they're adddictive (emphasis added) ;D
Luc, a fantastic Frit, impeccably grown, a glorious sight.
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Welcome to the world of terminal addictions Chloe. I find Fritillaria more dangerous than most.
Luc that is an outstanding potful. One might even suggest a Farrer Medal potful if it were at a show. 8)
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wonderful plant Luc, I had problems with some of my japanese Frits, a mouse eat 3 bulbs of F.japonicum, I have 2 bulbils left. 2 forms of F.jap. var. koidzumiana are now in flower, some others are following
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Wow! Very beautiful frit!
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My first fritillaria in flower: Fritillaria bucharica
A wonderful opening to the Frit season for you LucS - it really is a stunning one.
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F.jap. var. koidzumiana are now in flower
Chris this is such an unusual Frit and I love the inside view and almost 'toothed edge' to the petals - it would make a wonderful painting 8)
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My first fritillary: either latakiensis or elwesii. Quite small - the flowering stalk is about 9 cm and the flower itself barely more than 2 cm.
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Can't tell you what it is Chloe, but well done anyway.
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I'd incline toward elwesii Chloe (e.g. see here (http://www.fritillariaicones.com/icones/Fritillaria_Icones018.pdf)); I think latakiensis is usually a bit taller.
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Chloe, I think Asley has wright ofcorse it is also possible that it is a cross from these two.
I had one who looks like that and planted it out in the garden but mice eat it,
here F.amabilis in flower only 5cm tall
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Chloe's plant looks like elwesii, though it may just be short as it is a young plant.
Chris, your plant is equally short, and is it not more like F. ayakoana with those very prominent nectaries?
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F.jap. var. koidzumiana are now in flower
Chris this is such an unusual Frit and I love the inside view and almost 'toothed edge' to the petals - it would make a wonderful painting 8)
Such a painting exists - by Joanna Langhorne. It appeared on the cover of Fritillaria (the Journal of the Frit Group), no.9, Autumn 2001.
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Thanks Gerry, I'll try and seek it out ;)
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the flower of my F.ayakoana is much smaller and the plant is about 10cm tall,
I'm not an expert, these bulbs where send to me from Japan 4 years ago,
here 2 pix from my F.ayakoana
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Yes, I see your F. ayakoana flowers have more prominent nectaries....a lovely frit....
I have no expertise in these (sadly) but I had heard that the more prominent shoulders and nectaries were indicative more of ayakoana... ??? :-\.... super plants to trouble ourselves with , that is for sure! 8)
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Wonderful plants Chris 8)
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Maggy, I find pix on www.fritillariaicones.com and my F.amabilis looks like F.japonicum just not so tall but that's maby I grow them in a pot?
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I see that the ambilis forms shown in the icones show much smoother, more narrow shoulders and without prominent nectary "points" on the shoulders..... your flower has much more prominent shoulders and a much broader shape to the flower..... I don't think that shape would be different no matter how short or tall the plant. I think that your amabilis is more like a japonica form. Very cute!
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The F. amabilis shown on the Frit Group site (here (http://www.fritillaria.org.uk/Image%20Pages/fritillaria_amabilis.htm)) are also more slender. Such beautiful plants.
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The F. amabilis shown on the Frit Group site (here (http://www.fritillaria.org.uk/Image%20Pages/fritillaria_amabilis.htm)) are also more slender. Such beautiful plants.
Well, slender is fine..... though I myself have a fondness for short and tubby....... ;)
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Obviously I meant 'slender yet beautiful' rather than 'slender hence beautiful' ;)
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Obviously I meant 'slender yet beautiful' rather than 'slender hence beautiful' ;)
Cleverly extricated, Ashley! ;D
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Another form in the "Rhinopetalum" group, altough not the best picture, is Fritillaria stenathera. It's a plant from C-Asia where it grows on stony slopes. Flowercolor can vary from pearlwhite to soft pink and blues.
This seed-raised collection comes from Uzbekistan (1400m).
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the flower of my F.ayakoana is much smaller and the plant is about 10cm tall,
I'm not an expert, these bulbs where send to me from Japan 4 years ago,
here 2 pix from my F.ayakoana
Chris, these frits are very beautiful and different. I am not so familiar with this group but they do attract me !
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beautiful F.stenathera, Luc, here it grows not so good maby to much shade.
the only thing I now from my Japanese plants is that it are woodlanders, they need good drainage but never let them dry out.
here another with on the label: F.muraiana
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I'm speechless, Chris, F.stenathera is the essence of beauty and sophistication in outline, colour and marking - you really grow some treasures :)
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I too have stenanthera in flower Luc, the first frit this season, but not a patch on your beauty though. At the moment the flowers are lurking in the heart of the flower but I hope the stem will elongate. Mind you it has been bitterly cold this last week.
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Chris, the F. ayakoana and F. muraiana are delicate beauties, are these two Japanese species related? The flowers have a similarity, both white bells with thin red veins.
Luc, your F. stenanthera is a stunner two, interesting to get so many different and subtle color forms from one collection. I love seeing all the Rhinopetalum types, although never tried growing them.
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Marc, I think they are related but I dont now much about them
Robin, it is'nt my F.stenatera but the wonderful plant of Luc, here two pix from my F.stenanthera also from seed and the first time flowering
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Chris, the F. ayakoana and F. muraiana are delicate beauties, are these two Japanese species related? The flowers have a similarity, both white bells with thin red veins.
There is an article on Japanese fritillaries by Martyn Rix in The Plantsman 2, 64-66 (1980). The painting by Joanna Langhorne, to which I referred above, is also reproduced here but unfortunately the plants portrayed are incorrectly identified (they are correctly identified in Fritillaria).
I don't know anything about F. ayakoana but F. muraiana is a synonym of F. japonica var. japonica & F. koidzumiana of F. japonica var. koidzumiana.
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On the subject of F. alburyana, can anyone shed any light on why the flowers on this abort every year for me? The plants are happy, even put out offsets but the flowers always make it to a good sized bud then wither or just fail to progress. They colour up so you can see it is actually alburyana, but in 4 years I've never had a proper flower, even when I kept it in the fridge for a longer dormancy.
Thanks for any advice,
Alex
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Luc,
that pot full of Fr. stenathera is simply wonderfull. Great to see all the variation in a single foto. You will be setting seed, now, won't you? :P ;D
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A beautiful little plant Chris, very desirable. ;D
I think Chloe's is elwesii too. My latakiensis is entirely brown, or more acurately, what we know as khaki, the colour of British and NZ army uniforms before they all became desert or jungle-coloured.
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Robin, it is'nt my F.stenatera but the wonderful plant of Luc,
Sorry for the confusion, Chris, it was your F.muraiana that I was referring to but yours and Luc's pot full of Fr. stenathera are really outstandingly beautiful Fritillaria....
here two pix from my F.stenanthera also from seed and the first time flowering
and the accolades go on :)
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On the subject of F. alburyana, can anyone shed any light on why the flowers on this abort every year for me? The plants are happy, even put out offsets but the flowers always make it to a good sized bud then wither or just fail to progress. They colour up so you can see it is actually alburyana, but in 4 years I've never had a proper flower, even when I kept it in the fridge for a longer dormancy.
Thanks for any advice,
Alex
I've had this happen too Alex and just about wept for the loss of the single flower which was coming. Since then I have made sure the pot get heaps of water from mid winter on, or even earlier, as soon as roots can be expected (March here, say September for you). This means quite moist through winter so the drainage needs to be good. Now it flowers properly each year. Still just one bulb though and one flower. :( Probably some of Ian's bulb fertilizer wouldn't go amiss either.
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Hopefully I'm attaching a pic of the first frit out here, F. pluriflora. I have had this for well over 15 yrs, it arrived under another name, took a few years to flower and clearly was F. pluriflora. It has never divided and I used to remove the flower stalk. Past few years I have let it set seed, mainly sending it off to the Frit Group or AGS. I sowed some a year or so back and I have quite a few seedlings so it is quite a fertile little thing.
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Mark, your frit has a very good strong colour.... lovely!
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Mark,
A terrific and excellent grown plant. Good to hear, and at the same time strange that this one plant sets good seed.
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That is superb Mark, and as Luc says, great that the single bulb (clone) sets seed. So often they won't until they have company from different clones.
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I thought generally the Frits were self fertile? Perhaps of reflection only some have been setting seed. I notice they tend to attract queen wasps..but the pluriflora flowers too early for them generally.
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Well I have several that have never set seed in spite of careful hand (but self) pollinaton. :'(
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it looks a wonderfull Frit. Marc, here the last one of my japanese collection: F.shikokiana
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Mark your F. pluriflora is absolutely glorious - wonderful to have such success in flowering with a 15 year old plant - thanks for posting the photo of it at its peak 8)
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Thanks all.
After years of having grown plants from misnamed seed, getting in misnamed bulbs and potentially this year doing the label switch-a-roo (less serious) I have some plants I could do with some expert help with.
The first pic is baffling me. It's in a pot of F. erhartii. I grew them from Archibald seed and as I've had it for a long time I think all the bulbs have previously flowered as dark wine red, untesselated, with yellow tips, ie definately erhartii. This one has the same glossy green leaves but I don't have any plants that I have flowered so far that looks like that. Any ideas?
The second is a pic of Frit davisii I grew from Archibald seed.
If you are a Frit lover, brown is always in fashion.
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It looks rather like F. messanensis subsp. gracilis; a pic of the nectaries & stigma would be useful.
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ok, this might help.
If it is that, is it one for the garden?
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Mark - the details seem consistent with F. messanensis subsp. gracilis. I have heard of people growing this in the garden but I don't think I would risk it unless I had several bulbs.
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ok, let's go for the positive "yay! I have a new Frit!!" It's actually quite nice.
I can't think where it came from unless it was lurking in the pot from about 15 years ago (when I sowed the original F.erhartii). I'll need to find a way of marking the stem so I can dig it out because as far as I can see the rest of the pot is true although somewhat in decline.
thanks for the ID. I'll probably have some more. I found another problem "permanent markers" for seedpots..those I have no idea what they will be!
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Mark,
I have been growing Fritillaria messanensis ssp. gracilis in the garden near Moscow for more than 7 years quite successfully with only care being a spoonful of potash after flowering.
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Here are some shots of F. poluninii grown from Archibald seed, quite variable but a few are the "classic" white (in various sizes). Two, however, have lovely purple veining on the flowers, one of which is shown below. I assume this is still within the range of what is called poluninii, if anyone knows?
Whatever, I'm very pleased with them!
Also shown is F. karelinii and F. euboeica, the latter is lovely but I don't think the photo has done it justice.
Cheers,
Alex
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Very nice Alex. I see you are also in Oxford. I'm in Garsington.
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Hi Mark,
I'm quite near the city centre, just next to Jericho. Not huge amounts of space because of that, but more than most around where we are and certainly enough for a bulb house. Glad you like the pictures, I must say I really enjoyed your excellent F. pluriflora a few posts back. One of the most beautiful Frits, I wish I grew it!
Cheers,
Alex
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Stunning frits Alex. I guess you're not complaining about the purple veining. :D
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Beautiful Alex. Congratulations!
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..and from me, congratulations Alex on such awe inspiring frits - your photos show them of really well. The veining is what caught my eye :)
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You are a good grower Alex ! Congratulations.
And raised from seed, my way of doing it.
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Two flowering here today:
Fritillaria raddeana
Fritillaria stenanthera
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Nice, Wim,
my Fr. raddeana opened its first flowers yesterday. I have collected pollen to attempt a cross with Fr. imperialis. I assume this has been done, but don't know what results came of it.
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Jamie,
Your F. raddeana looks to be white while the plant of Wim is pale yellow.
Has the colour something to see with the age of the flowers ?
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Jamie, nice plant.
I think that cross has been tried indeed and if I remember correctly they are not compatible (I think I read this somewhere but I don't remember where). But I'm sure someone with more knowledge about this subject will answer here soon. Ian???
Luc, I think it's just the natural variation of the flower, some are paler then others.
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Luc,
as Wim mentioned, it seems to be the natural variation. Mine opened this pale straw colour and has stayed this way for 3 days. I've seen a foto of a clone with almost rust coloured flowers.
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lovely, how tall are the F. raddeana?
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Mark,
mine is about 60cm. Less than half so high as an imperialis. I don't know how much they vary.
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thanks for that. as I say very nice
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my Fr. raddeana opened its first flowers yesterday. I have collected pollen to attempt a cross with Fr. imperialis. I assume this has been done, but don't know what results came of it.
Crossing Ff. raddeana and imperialis gives a plant which looks close to F. eduardii.... which may itself be of hybrid origin.
In our garden a good mature raddeana can be around 80 to 90 cms tall.
Flower colour can vary .
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I may have a seedling of F. eduardii, I am sure I got a packet from the Frit group but the "permanent label marker" I used wasn't.. so I'm not sure. The seedling is up and is a couple of years old now..do the seedlings of the Imperielis group look different in the early stages so i might be able to confirm?
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Mmmm, not sure, Mark ....will see what we might have growing at the moment to get pix of tomorrow.
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Mark, my imperialis and raddeana seedlings all look very similar.
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The seedlings of imperialis, raddeana and eduardii all look very similar to eachother. These seedlings have got rather broader seedling leaves than other frits, but no discernible difference between the group.
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Size-wise this is not quite in the same league as the species above. This Fritillaria pinardii is about 5cm tall and for me the first species flowering in the open garden.
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thanks, right now being able to identify it as being the imperialis group is enough. When (if) it flowers it will be a lovely surprise.
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All my frits are outside though some in pots outside, as was pinardii. It too, is the first to bloom. I've planted it in the open garden now.
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The next ones to open here today are F.uva-vulpis (bought as assyriaca) and F.pinardii RRW94210. This was bought originally from Buried Treasure about 6 years ago. I would be interested to know if it is still listed as a F.pinardii.
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The next ones to open here today are F.uva-vulpis (bought as assyriaca) and F.pinardii RRW94210. This was bought originally from Buried Treasure about 6 years ago. I would be interested to know if it is still listed as a F.pinardii.
Simon - there is no plant with this collection no. in Rannveig's 2009 list. No F. pinardii either.
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Thanks, Gerry. I am rather annoyed at myself for not keeping the lists I had from the time of purchase.
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A frit flowering here today in the warmest day of the year (19°C) thus far,
Fritillaria caucasica
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Love the beautiful grey bloom on yours Simon. :)
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Thanks, Lesley.
Also in bloom here now another 2 F.pinardii (the first was bought asRRW9326 and I had enough to release some of this into the garden last year).
Also F.aurea and F.obliqua (this one has made me happy as it is the first flowering after the plants were almost killed 3winters ago by voles)
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Lovely plants Simon. Are the obliqua and aurea in the open garden orin a frame of some kind. I'm determined to get as many as possible of mine into the open but I guess I'm wanting to know if someone else is already doing that successfully. :D
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Good evening,
can anybody help me to identify this Fritillaria sp.? I received two bulblets a few years ago with information that they are from Uzbekistan (Za`amin valley). They should to be Fr. stenathera but I am not sure. There is quite a lot differences between both groups – my "Fr. stenathera aff". (there is only the name I put them only for this moment) are only 7-10 cm high, white flowers, anthers are ebony and inside of flowers are any marks. Could it be Fr. gibbosa? Many thanks Igor
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Whatever it is, it is very beautiful with that strongly black central marking.
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Good evening,
can anybody help me to identify this Fritillaria sp.? I received two bulblets a few years ago with information that they are from Uzbekistan (Za`amin valley). They should to be Fr. stenathera but I am not sure. There is quite a lot differences between both groups – my "Fr. stenathera aff". (there is only the name I put them only for this moment) are only 7-10 cm high, white flowers, anthers are ebony and inside of flowers are any marks. Could it be Fr. gibbosa? Many thanks Igor
Without doubt F. stenanthera. It is very variable in color from pure white to quite deep pink through bright to dirty shades. The feature for seperating is nectary-horns on back of each petal (see on picture 2), bucharica hasn't such horns and other rhinopetalums has horn only on one petal. In Zaamin only stenanthera is growing.
Janis
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Lovely plants Simon. Are the obliqua and aurea in the open garden orin a frame of some kind. I'm determined to get as many as possible of mine into the open but I guess I'm wanting to know if someone else is already doing that successfully. :D
Lesley, I have 2 patches of F.aurea outside -as I had spares- the one that is flowering size looks as though it will flower next week. I will try one of the F.obliqua outside this year, now that I know I have 2 good sized bulbs.
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Here, Fritillaria pinardii is flowering also
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Grown from seed and flowering now. I am really good at losing labels, any help would be much appreciated.
Mike
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Simon your Frits outside look wonderful and relaxed in the garden - snow all gone then? We had another snowfall yesterday and flowering bulbs looked really miserable but today are fine 8)
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Grown from seed and flowering now. I am really good at losing labels, any help would be much appreciated.
Mike
Mike it could be F. kotschyana. It would be helpful to see the nectaries & stigma.
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Thanks Gerry, I'll post more photos.
Mike
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Thanks, Robin. Yes the snow has all gone here except in the mountains- we had temperatures up to 24C over the last few days and thankfully the snow you had was only snow above 2000m so we have had some lovely heavy rain!
Mike, that is a very robust looking plant. Well done.
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Good evening,
Thank to all of you for help with the identification of Fritillaria stenathera. Yesterday I photographed the other Fritilarias – the first one I received as Fritillaria zagrica (from Lorestan) and the other as Fritillaria chlorantha aff. from Kordestan. Could anybody help me yet with this identification please? Thanks Igor.
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Good evening,
Thank to all of you for help with the identification of Fritillaria stenathera. Yesterday I photographed the other Fritilarias – the first one I received as Fritillaria zagrica (from Lorestan) and the other as Fritillaria chlorantha aff. from Kordestan. Could anybody help me yet with this identification please? Thanks Igor.
Dear Herminarik, You must change your supplier! Under name of zagrica you got F.pinardii. It is very common species comparing with not so often offered zagrica. True zagrica has yellow tips of tepals (see attached picture). As quite rare chlorantha you got very usual F. crassifolia kurdica. Picture of true chlorantha made in Gothenburg Botanic Garden attached.
Janis
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Herminarik,
Both crassifolia and pinardii are very variable. Here some forms of those showing some variability.
janis
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A little late compared to some but here is one of my Raddeana
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Herminarik,
Both crassifolia and pinardii are very variable. Here some forms of those showing some variability.
janis
Interesting seeing the variability, I like the F. pinardii forms. Here's a form of F. crassifolia kurdica that I've been growing for years, very small thing. It's in bud now, this photo taken a few years ago.
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Dear Janis, thank you very much for help. Third I have yet one other Fritillaria species as I have no idea what kind of Fritillaria it could be. Maybe Fritillaria crassifolia dark form?
PS: Fortunately I order quite soon and with pleasure the bulbs or species without name or labelled only “it could be xy. So in this case I do not feel cheated and time-to-time it is quite thrilling to wait what exactly has I received. But to tell the truth I will be very grateful for a few fresh seeds of true Fr. zagrica and Fr. chlorantha.
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Hi all, I hope you have escaped the very wild storm we have had today, freezingcold winds lots of snow and the wind has left a trail of distruction. Many trees blow down roads blocked we lost our poly tunnel and I have spent half a day clearing up broken glass from around the glasshouses. I do not think we have a good flower head left outside anywhere such a pity as some were just reaching the best time. I post a few Fritillaria pictures which were in a glasshouse which escaped the storm for now. Sometimes you could give up but then you see a beautiful flower tucked under a bush just perfact because of the shelter then you think well if that little flower can survive then so can I. Always next year. The pictures are all forms of Frit. sewerzowii. cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Hi Ian, what a tragedy to have your poly tunnel and glasshouses and garden so badly damaged in the recent snow storms and bad weather but your optimism in the onslaught of all this and your vision of what is important is remarkable...I do hope you find many such plants and surprising survivals to ease the loss.
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My commiserations Ian. Such a heart-breaking thing to happen and one could weep to see flowers one treasures broken and destroyed. Thank goodness for your indomitable spirit to overcome these setbacks. Farmers and gardeners who always depend on the weather and are so often forced into unwanted paths, must be the strongest people in the world, mentally.
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Hi, thanks very much, I am pleased to say that the storm has died down they say March comes in like a lamb and goes out like a lion well that was some angry lion. I have seen some Corydalis still looking O/K and the Erythroniums are just damaged on the leaf hope by the end of the week to see some flowers, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Gerry does this help with the I/D of Frit. kotschyanus?
Mike
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Flowering here now are:
Fritillaria sewerzowii outside on a seaonally slope.
Fritillaria bucharica in the xeric garden. It doesn't look like much, but this is the first flower on what was a bulb which had been 'lost'. I am happy to see it didn't give up the ghost.
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Gerry does this help with the I/D of Frit. kotschyanus?
Mike
Mike - I replied in the Frit ID thread. Yes, seems to be F. kotschyana - small nectaries & trifid style.
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Maybe not many flowers Simon but a good, strong growth so surely there will be more next year.
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It seems to be a long Frit season here, I've still got a number that have yet to flower, I guess it's a result of the cold wet weather.
I'm a bit disappointed that some of the plants I've had for well over a decade seemed to stopped flowering after many years, e.g F.conica, F.sibthorpii.
Still after an absence of many years F. carica is back. Maybe I'm planting too deep? (I know too shallow makes them split).
I'd appreciate ideas on the other brownish one. It came to me as F. carica. When I asked why it wasn't yellow, the nurseryman told me it was the "brown form". hmmm. I thought it is more likely to be F. pinardii? Any thoughts?
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I'd appreciate ideas on the other brownish one. It came to me as F. carica. When I asked why it wasn't yellow, the nurseryman told me it was the "brown form". hmmm. I thought it is more likely to be F. pinardii? Any thoughts?
Mark - there is a so-called 'brown form' of F. carica (I don't know whether it is a hybrid). It's many years since I had it & yours looks rather more brown than I remember, though I must admit my memory is a bit hazy.
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Gerry,didn't Kath list it as Carica Brun at one time?
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Thanks. After , hmmm..more than 35 yrs of growing various alpines and bulbs with the Frits I'm starting to go from my more "mature" "collect different species and clones" back to "I'll take a dark red/black one, a yellow one, a brown one and a grey and yellow one" with these F.carica/pinardii types.
I'm finding the variation within a species is greater than the apparent variation between species.
And then there are all the green and brown ones.
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Gerry,didn't Kath list it as Carica Brun at one time?
Yes, I've just checked on a old list (2001). I think mine came from Norman Stevens who listed it in 1996 as F. carica 'Brown Form'.
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I agree with the F.pinardii/ carica problems. This one I am not sure about either. It is flowering in with one of my F.pinardii forms. My first thought was F.alfredae, but the flower looks too elongated. One thing I did notice was its incredibly short style- less than half of the flower length. Both pictures are of the same plant a few days apart.
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I agree with the F.pinardii/ carica problems. This one I am not sure about either. It is flowering in with one of my F.pinardii forms. My first thought was F.alfredae, but the flower looks too elongated. One thing I did notice was its incredibly short style- less than half of the flower length. Both pictures are of the same plant a few days apart.
Simon - difficult to say anything intelligent about this one. The style suggests F. alfredae but not the shape of the flower. As I know it, F. alfredae, while quite narrow, is more flared at the mouth. I wonder if the shape will change as the flower ages?
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Fritillaria tuntasia.
Fritillaria hermonis ?
Fritilllaria hermonis ? these two were in the same pot grown from seed as Hermonis.?
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hi, I hope my F. tuntasia turn out like that. Mine are supposedly from Wisley but the buds are still green.
The other two are extremely similar to plants I have, I had one as F. amana and the other one F. amana EK Balls. The first one is also very similar to one that came to me as F.argolica which it clearly isn't.
I'll be interested what others have to say.
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Michael - your two F. hermonis appear to be what used to be known as F. hermonis subsp amana but is now F. amana. Neither of them looks much like the E.K. Balls form (EKB1034) which, as I know it, has very long bells.
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I sort of knew you were going to say that. My two which are the spit of Michael's, I bought one as "Sunglow", the other as "EKB" and it seems neither were true.
I must say from the perspective of wrongly named plants Frits have been the worst group in my experience. From good suppliers too. The seed seems just as bad sometimes. (Not quite up to the Silene hookerii, Omphalodes lucilae level). Disappointing after often a bit of a wait.
At least some came true. Looking forward to my F. recurva flowering.
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Will start with Fritillaria alburyana deep purple form from Turkey. It isn't hybrid as there no other frits are growing.
Next are two pictures of Fritillaria assyriaca from Iran - long searched by me, and finally I collected it by myself although under another name.
Fritillaria aurea is very variable in size. Here very large blooming form.
Next is most possibly new subsp. of F. crassifolia from Iran
and on last you can see how improve tiny Fritillaria serpenticola in cultivation. In nature never saw it with more than 1 flower, this spring with me each with at least 2 flowers on stem. This one is exceptional plant - even with 3 flowers on stem.
Janis
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These will keep me going nicely until our spring. Such beautiful plants. Thanks to everyone.
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Thanks, Gerry. The shape of the flower never changed and the inside of the petals was also darker with similar striations to some of my F.pinardii. ???
Flowering here in the xeric garden from a recovered bulb is F.montana (?)
One I posted last year as F.frankiorum, but which I now think may be forbesii
and one I thought might be F.messanensis, but the flowers seem too 'boxy' compared to the ones I have elsewhere in the garden.
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One of Fritillarias collected in Iran. Collected at road junction to Asad Abad. Only on very tops of small hills. alt. 2000 m. 35.00.415 N; 48.07.184 E.
Still without name. Can some help?
Janis
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Still without name. Can some help?
To me it looks like 'burnished gold' (Oro brunito)
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Fritillaria pudica was in bloom today, complete with lily beetle (which I hand squish) ;D
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Looking good, Mark. I suppose the Lily Beetle is fair trade for Colorado Beetle ;)
This is the inside of my possibloe F.kotschyana candidate- the nectaries are small and circular and quite had to photograph. Also flowering here is F.thunbergii, which has been above ground since February and has put up with several storm storms.
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Also flowering here now- could this be the 'real' F.ruthenica?
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I received a bulb in 2007 labeled Fritillaria imperialis 'Aureomarginata'. This year it is getting ready to bloom, 2 photos uploaded. It is obviously not "Aureomarginata", but the leaves are rather handsome, light silvery color. I wonder what it'll be like when flowering. I'll post again when in flower.
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Mark
I suspect you have a white form of Fritillaria persica there, the cultivar name 'Ivory Bells' has been applied to one.
We will know for sure when the flowers appear.
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Also flowering here now- could this be the 'real' F.ruthenica?
Could be Simon. The leaves look more-or-less right.
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A very small plant.
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Thanks Gerry.
Well done Mark- certainly a trade up on F.imperialis.
Arnold, is your F.aurea a F.crassifolia?
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Arnold, nice frit, whatever it's identity is.
Simon, I like the thunbergii... most attractive.
The record-tying hot weather yesterday (86 F, 30 C) is bringing blooms along fast and furious. Even with the heat yesterday, Fritillaria pudica was looking very fresh, so I couldn't help but post another photo.
The only other frit in bloom now... a first blooming, is F. carica. It is tiny tiny, less than 3" (7.5 cm) tall. Judging from this small patch, there are young ones coming along, so I assume this will get a little bigger as the bulbs mature? How tall should I expect it to grow at maturity?
Oops, posted the same photo of F. pudica twice... duh ::) Updated with the photo I meant to upload.
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McMark: 30 degrees? In April?? That's ludicrous, shouldn't be allowed! >:(
As to your F. carica... if it proves a robust form it may make 6inches..... it's a sweet thing.
Arnold: not an aurea, I don't think... a crassifiolia is a possibility, as Gerry suggests.... those devils get everywhere!
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Arnold, is your F.aurea a F.crassifolia?
[/quote]
I think you may be correct. There was a nearby label with Fritillaria crassifolia kurdica.
Arnold
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Latest flowering here at the moment
Frit Ariana
Frit Gibbosa
Frit Euboica
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I received a bulb in 2007 labeled Fritillaria imperialis 'Aureomarginata'. This year it is getting ready to bloom, 2 photos uploaded. It is obviously not "Aureomarginata", but the leaves are rather handsome, light silvery color. I wonder what it'll be like when flowering. I'll post again when in flower.
It is persica, without doubt.
Janis
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Fritillaria meleagris alba
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A better image of Fritillaria crassifolia kurdica
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some Frittilaria from my garden :
Frittilaria imperialis
Frittilaria meleagris
Frittilaria uva-vulpis
Hans 8)
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sigh, I lost my post.
I'd appreciate the IDs on the first 3, all came as various things incl. F.tuntasia (!)
The F. recurva is from Archibald seed. Been giving a single spike for a decade, I made a hash of the top dressing and knocked the bulb but now I have 2 smaller spikes. Any hints on repotting this without the main bilb falling apart? I have lots of small ones and I think if they are ever going to get bigger they may need to be moved to a bigger pot and just left.
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Those two very different by color forms of F. gibbosa grew up from Archibalds seeds
The best of F, stenanthera forms from Aravan
Fritillaria minima SASA-121
Fritillaria aurea is very variable in height and size of flowers. On this picture you can see variable stocks of it.
Nice hybrid between Fritillaria aurea and fleischeriana raised in Gothenburg BG
Fritillaria crassifolia crassifolia and plant collected by me in Iran which looks something similar to subsp. kurdica, but I'm not certain about its name.
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Fritillaria whittallii
From Frit Group seed (received as F. graeca).
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Mark, the first of your 3 for ID is F. acmopetala. Wouldn't like to give an opiion on the others.
My recurva also came from Archibald and gradually has built to a good clump with an extra stem each year. I've twice repotted and removed a great many rice grains and though they take time, they do eventually grow on to flowering size. I think it's important to leave at least some in case the larger bulbs are damaged somehow. I'm planting some young ones out in the garden this autumn and hope they may grow bigger, quicker.
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Mark - Although the flower is not fully developed I agree with Lesley that no 1 is probably F. acmopetala & maybe no 3 is too. No 2 may be F. hermonis amana (or F. amana).
It seems that these days bulbous plants are often either wrongly named or infected with virus or both.
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Mark - Although the flower is not fully developed I agree with Lesley that no 1 is probably F. acmopetala & maybe no 3 is too. No 2 may be F. hermonis amana (or F. amana).
It seems that these days bulbous plants are often either wrongly named or infected with virus or both.
Naming of plants is not easy. Even seeds from Botanic gardens in ~30% are wrongly named (in average). When plant is grown and named, no one more is checking how correct is name if some one are not specially working on that genus. Often plants are grown under names as they are received and so mistakes goes wider and wider. I try to check names of my Muscari, Ornithogalums, Alliums etc. but no good complete keys at present are available, too many new species described not included in keys, that it isn't wonder for some wrong names.
Regarding viruses peoples simply don't know symptoms, large nurseries give little attention to viruses which don't damage seriously plants (Muscari is excellent sample of this). I'm very carefully checking my stocks, but we had 3 or 4 years with poor blooming of Crocuses or with weather damaging flowers so seriously that no checking was possible and results now I can see on my plants - 3 stocks I destroyed yesterday completely, from a pair left only few plants (normally would be destroyed all stock, but those I like so much that will replant them separately for more checking in following years). But many stocks looked absolutely perfect or only 1-2 suspicious plant was removed from hundreds planted. Next checking will go by leaves after returning from my trip to Georgia. A lot of virused plants I found between old cultivars of Crocus tommasinianus and decided to destroy those stocks, too. Fortunately I have nice and better colored selections from John Grimshaw. It much demands from grower, how seriously he is looking on his job. I just got picture of leaves from my CARPATHIAN WONDER. I didn't like them and so I very carefully checked all my plantings of this beauty and I took out only 1 plant which was only slightly suspicious. All others were perfect. I marked 3 which had larger marks on petals and lilac flower tube, petals are wider and more rounded, may be will come up better form. I think it must be mutation as no seedlings could be between them.
Janis
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Janis - That F. gibbosa from Archibald has great "gibbosity" doesn't it? And the apical leaflets are more whirly-twirly. F. minima is a cute one, although I like all of them.
Gerry - elegant flower form and checkering on F. whittallii. Mine will be in bloom in a day or two, although I remember the flowers being not as flared as yours... I will post to compare when it flowers.
Mark G - your F. recurva is beautiful, congratulations. I have tried it a couple time outside, each time it faded away after a couple years.
And now we can bask in the glory of F. eastwoodiae, a Californian species that is "the other red one", although flower color is variable in all shades of red, orange, salmon, and yellow. See the CalPhotos link below:
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?stat=BROWSE&query_src=photos_flora_sci&where-genre=Plant&where-taxon=Fritillaria+eastwoodiae&title_tag=Fritillaria+eastwoodiae
So there sits my lone leaf of F. eastwoodiae, yet another year happy to be a mere leaf, which is promising considering the quick demise of F. recurva when tried here. In the corner of the photo is wavy-leaf Tulipa vvedenskyi.
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Many thanks for your replies. I am a bit confused where all these came from, I thought I had only two plants I thought were F.amana, but now it seems I have 3 different plants. The would have arrived as single bulbs decades ago. The "indelible" ink labels haven't helped but it's still a bit of a mystery.
I think I'll put all three of the green and brown ones shown here out, I was never too fond of 2.
I have a third F.amana which I prefer that I will retain in the greenhouse.
Hopefully I have F.eastwoodiae, but it's frit society again so we'll see.
Perhaps it's time to just get them from Archibald, so far all of those have been true.
Out of interest, what is the best time to sow the seed?
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August /September, for the seed, Mark.
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Out of interest, what is the best time to sow the seed?
I sow seed directly in the garden right after harvesting the seed, typically in August. I get much better results this way.
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I was looking at a clump of Fritillaria meleagris in the garden this evening and though one of the bells looked broader shouldered than the others. Closer inspection revealed one flower stem with the flower parts in twelves instead of six with a four armed style and another with nine flower parts but this still only had a triffid style. The rest of the clump is 'normal'. Has anyone any experience of this sort of aberrant growth? photos attached.
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Gerry - elegant flower form and checkering on F. whittallii. Mine will be in bloom in a day or two, although I remember the flowers being not as flared as yours... I will post to compare when it flowers.
Mark - I'll be interested to see your form. I have another, possibly more attractive form which is less flared but it split into small, non-flowering bulbs a couple of years ago so I imagine it will be a time before I see the flowers again.
By the way, you must have perfect conditions if you can sow into the open ground. That would produce nothing at all here.
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Some Fritillarias from last days
Fritillaria baskilensis - similar to pinardii but taller, with very thick leaves.
Two variants of F. chlorantha - one from Colin Mason, another (may be different, marked as aff.) from Norman Stevens
Three different "crassifolia" (or close to) from Iran
Fritillaria strausii from Iran
and as last Fritillaria stenanthera grown from Jilek seeds as "multiflowering" but no difference from other my stocks originating in Uzbekistan,
Janis
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Janis, wonderful to see such beautiful Fritillaria flowering for you - Fritillaria baskilensis is especially interesting.
Are all these Frits under cover?
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Janis, wonderful to see such beautiful Fritillaria flowering for you - Fritillaria baskilensis is especially interesting.
Are all these Frits under cover?
Yes, all are pot grown.
Janis
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Fritillaria obliqua and another
Fritillaria gibbosa
Janis
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Chloe, I think Asley has wright ofcorse it is also possible that it is a cross from these two.
I had one who looks like that and planted it out in the garden but mice eat it,
here F.amabilis in flower only 5cm tall
just looking at this whole thread now--this one is most amazing! so this plant will stay this small? what sort of cultural conditions?
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Fritillaria whittallii
Fritillaria bithynica
Fritillaria conica
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A fritillaria is blooming in my garden. I have sowed several species
but no plants have resulted, except for this one. I probably dumped
out the pots since they seemed to be empty.
Seeds sown in 2000 included messanensis, which looks similar to mine,
according to online photos.
I don't know what to look for to distinguish it. When I look inside, it
has a dark spot on each petal.
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I'd plump for pontica.
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I agree with Lesley - F. pontica.
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Thank you both. I just read up on pontica, and it is written that
it is easy to grow. Good for it! I like plants that are easy.
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Second generation (F-2) seedling of hybrid between F. aurea x fleischeriana
Janis
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Quite a few from me:
F. recurva (2 plants and close up)
F. liliacea
Another F. liliacea flowering for the first time from Archibald seed
Finally, a mystery plant received as F. pinetorum and which has finally flowered 3 or 4 years after getting small bulbs. Can anyone help with ID? I think it is still an American Frit., perhaps F. viridea which the same source also used to offer? All hep appreciated!
Ta,
Alex
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Thank you both. I just read up on pontica, and it is written that
it is easy to grow. Good for it! I like plants that are easy.
It is indeed easy, and prolific too. It makes good seed reliably. When you lift it you'll find young ones with little antler-like growths. I don't know any other frit with these.
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What a difference cover makes Alex. My recurva which lives its life outdoors all the time, grows only to about 30-35cms.
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Yes, the bigger one is quite tall now - but I've read they can reach a metre in habitat.....
Any North American Frit experts have a view on the identity of the possible viridea above?
Cheers,
Alex
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We don't grow F. viredea, so all we can say is that it looks right!
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I know that Fritllaria davidii has appeared before but I was so excited by Darren Sleep's pot at the Hexham show I said to Brian we've got a pot of those leaves they come up every year. When I got home I looked at the leaves and there lurking in the centre was a flower. I know we grew them from seed but ofcourse the original label has long gone. Some people have odd socks that go astray we have plant labels. Anyway I just had to post it because ours doesn't have the dark band that Darren's did.
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Congratulations Shelagh!
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VERY NICE, Shelagh.... a lovely colour form. 8)
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I know that Fritllaria davidii has appeared before but I was so excited by Darren Sleep's pot at the Hexham show I said to Brian we've got a pot of those leaves they come up every year. When I got home I looked at the leaves and there lurking in the centre was a flower. I know we grew them from seed but ofcourse the original label has long gone. Some people have odd socks that go astray we have plant labels. Anyway I just had to post it because ours doesn't have the dark band that Darren's did.
Shelagh I am no expert on Davidii but if you say you have grown it from seed I dont think it is davdii first I have never heard of it producing seed it dies back to soon after flowering for seed to comemine has died back completely now also I dont think the leaves are right nor the flower.
Derek
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That's an interesting comment Derek. I cannot remember what the leaves look like* but I did wonder about the flower; l assumed it was just natural variation. At present I cannot lay my hands on the illustration of F. davidii published in Curtis; when I do I'll make another comment.
*on a second look I tend to agree with Derek that the leaves don't look right.
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I know that Fritllaria davidii has appeared before but I was so excited by Darren Sleep's pot at the Hexham show I said to Brian we've got a pot of those leaves they come up every year. When I got home I looked at the leaves and there lurking in the centre was a flower. I know we grew them from seed but ofcourse the original label has long gone. Some people have odd socks that go astray we have plant labels. Anyway I just had to post it because ours doesn't have the dark band that Darren's did.
Shelagh I am no expert on Davidii but if you say you have grown it from seed I dont think it is davdii first I have never heard of it producing seed it dies back to soon after flowering for seed to comemine has died back completely now also I dont think the leaves are right nor the flower.
Derek
Derek, They are typical davidii leaves. No one other frit has such veining of leaves. Although picture isn't very good - careful look on it shows very typical feature - dentate edge of flower segments. But the leaves are sufficient for identfication, although I didn't get seeds of davidii by myself, too.
Janis
Janis
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I know that Fritllaria davidii has appeared before but I was so excited by Darren Sleep's pot at the Hexham show I said to Brian we've got a pot of those leaves they come up every year. When I got home I looked at the leaves and there lurking in the centre was a flower. I know we grew them from seed but ofcourse the original label has long gone. Some people have odd socks that go astray we have plant labels. Anyway I just had to post it because ours doesn't have the dark band that Darren's did.
Shelagh I am no expert on Davidii but if you say you have grown it from seed I dont think it is davdii first I have never heard of it producing seed it dies back to soon after flowering for seed to comemine has died back completely now also I dont think the leaves are right nor the flower.
Derek
Derek, They are typical davidii leaves. No one other frit has such veining of leaves. Although picture isn't very good - careful look on it shows very typical feature - dentate edge of flower segments. But the leaves are sufficient for identfication, although I didn't get seeds of davidii by myself, too.
Janis
Janis
Janis thank you for putting me right I think the thing that made me think it was wrong was Shelagh saying they grew it from seed I know you have never had seed nor has Rannveig and Bob and I would have thought if anyone did get seed it would have been in the Fritillaria Group book.I think the answer to this goes back to a discusion we had on the forum last year and that ended up they were from Rice grains not seed. Derek
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A few years ago I had a plant of F.crassifolia kurdica X michailovskyi. It was lost in a vole related incident, but not before I was able to use it as a pollen parent onto another F.crassifolia. The results are obviously a result of some stray F.crassifolia pollen, as well as the intended cross. The plants with clear signs of the F.michailovskyi hybrid parent have much less colouring than the pollen parent, and also more tesselation within the red area, as one would expect.
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A few more pictures of Fritillaria (crassifolia kurdica x michailovskyi) x crassifolia.
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Great looking Frits Simon and wonderful success in spite of voles 8)
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I have to agree with Janis Shelagh, re the leaves anyway. They ARE typical of F. davidii so that your plant is VERY exciting, being grown from seed in the first place and being such a great colour variation. Are you able to reveal the source of your seed?
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A few more pictures of Fritillaria (crassifolia kurdica x michailovskyi) x crassifolia.
Simon, those are awesome hybrids :o :o Wish I had seen this just a couple days ago, I have both parent species flowering, and I could have tried making the same cross... judging from your results it would be well worth the effort. Now for the last two days we've had cold soaking rain, a little bit of snow, and then more rain, more rain predicted tommorrow, so I suspect my opportunity to try the cross is gone for this year.
And just for the heck of it, I'm throwing in a photo of F. kittaniae, this is it's first flowering, and it is tiny tiny, about 3" tall (7.5 cm)... I'm not familiar with the species, does it look right?
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A few more from me
F. whittalii
F crassifolia
F. erhartii
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I have to agree with Janis Shelagh, re the leaves anyway. They ARE typical of F. davidii so that your plant is VERY exciting, being grown from seed in the first place and being such a great colour variation. Are you able to reveal the source of your seed?
At the moment my computer is working rather better than it has been so I am able to see Shelagh's pics more clearly than when I posted previously. Relying on memory, I agree that the leaves look correct. Curiously, Flora of China does not draw attention to the distinctive leaves but it does refer to the tepals being "papillose-tuberculate adaxially"; this can be seen (just) on the close-up pic. The only plant of F. davidii I have ever seen in the flesh is that of Bob & Rannveig Wallis (quite a time ago) & I remember the flowers being of a darker yellow with brown markings but presumably there is colour variation.
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If anyone has a few spare rice grains of F. davidii for sale or trade when they are repotting later in the season, I would be very interested!
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Fritillaria alburyana today on open garden bed.
Janis
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[quote author=TheOnionMan link=topic=4972.msg148614#msg148614 date=1271550312
And just for the heck of it, I'm throwing in a photo of F. kittaniae, this is it's first flowering, and it is tiny tiny, about 3" tall (7.5 cm)... I'm not familiar with the species, does it look right?
[/quote]
Good luck next year, Mark. I did have a very pretty F.aurea X pinardii a few years ago- which I am hoping I have been able to make again this year.
I have only read a description of F.kittaniae- but yours fits with it- I remember it was said to be like a yellow pinardii with reddish 'stripes'. Well done- my one purchase of F.kittaniae turned out to be a pale yellow F.carica.
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This weekend in flower,
Fritillaria grandiflora ( i hope ), 3-years old seedlings
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This weekend in flower,
Fritillaria grandiflora ( i hope ), 3-years old seedlings
Looks right to me Dirk. A very handsome species.
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To me too. Super big flowers for such young plants. Well named. :D
The alburyanas are just beautiful.
So far as I can gather, all the F. davidii in cultivation, at least in the UK so far, and in Australia, has originated with the Wallises, whose form (a single clone?) doesn't apparently set seed, so it's no wonder we've assumed the species was ALL like theirs. Perhaps if theirs and Shelagh's could get together, seed might be obtained and different variation would become common or at least available.
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Just two today.
Fritillaria michaelovskyi.
Fritillaria lusitanica,? I hope.
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This weekend in flower,
Fritillaria grandiflora ( i hope ), 3-years old seedlings
My frits received as F. grandiflora from Russia blooms now, too. But what is "grandiflora"? Is it kotschyana subsp. grandiflora or another?
Janis
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If anyone has a few spare rice grains of F. davidii for sale or trade when they are repotting later in the season, I would be very interested!
Ask me at start of June. My davidii suffered this winter, so I will replant them and at presrent I don't know how they will look, but some pots seem that recovers.
Janis
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Janis, your Fritillaria alburyana is fabulous, such a pretty colour and low growing :)
Michael, great photos of your Frits - good to have an taste of what to look forward to here with F. michaelovskyi
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Janis, I have to agree with Robin, that alburyana is stunning.
Here's a common one, but still I like the flower:
Fritillaria persica
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This weekend in flower,
Fritillaria grandiflora ( i hope ), 3-years old seedlings
Looks right to me Dirk. A very handsome species.
Gerry, many thanks.
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A pair of "dwarfs" in outside garden
Fritillaria latifolia nobilis
Fritillaria aurea - both excellent growers in garden
A pair pictures of another yellow Caucasian - F. collina, it is not so easy outside
With Fritillaria reutheri I never risked outside although by color similar F. michailowskyi I'm growing outside without any problems
Fritillaria kotschyana Crayton Craigton Max - raised by Ian Young
Fritillaria gibbosa WHIR-056 - difficult even in greenhouse
Janis
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Lovely Frits, Janis.
Fritillaria kotschyana Crayton Max - raised by Ian Young
This is correctly called F. kotschyana 'Craigton Max'
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This weekend in flower,
Fritillaria grandiflora ( i hope ), 3-years old seedlings
My frits received as F. grandiflora from Russia blooms now, too. But what is "grandiflora"? Is it kotschyana subsp. grandiflora or another?
Janis
I think most of the typically dark F. grandiflora in the UK come (via Martin Rix) from the Moscow Botanic Garden. In the old Flora of the USSR (Leningrad 1935) F. grandiflora is recognised as a distinct species. However, a few years ago Bob Wallis collected a form S of Lerik in Azerbaijan (the type locality) with green & brown flowers which resembles F. kotschyana. Moreover, Bob told me that the green & brown form crops up in seedlings from the dark, Lerik form (see Fritillaria no 17, Autumn 2005)
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A couple of Fritillaria imperialis are now open. Both of these are new, although i only ordered the selection 'Striped Beauty', but one of the bulbs was a forma lutea. I've pollinated the flowers with F. raddeana, so the fingers are firmly crossed.
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Wim, that is a superb stem of F. persica and far from "common," here at least.
My F. grandiflora which was supplied from Tasmania as "from a Rix collection" is twice as large in flower as the flowered seedlings of F kotschyana ssp grandiflora, which don't seem any bigger than, say, pontica or others of similar size. I have a picture of the former but not the latter. Both are firmly underground at the moment though. :) The height of the flower in the picture is almost 6cms and the stems elongates as it matures.
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A couple of Fritillaria imperialis are now open. Both of these are new, although i only ordered the selection 'Striped Beauty', but one of the bulbs was a forma lutea. I've pollinated the flowers with F. raddeana, so the fingers are firmly crossed.
I saw few hybrids with raddeana at some flower show in Holland many years ago, but I nothing hear about them later. They really looked intermediate, with smaller flowers than in imperialis but I never tried such crosses by myself.
Janis
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Wim, that is a superb stem of F. persica and far from "common," here at least.
Not common in the Alps either! Having seen your great photo Wim I'm looking forward to seeing my 'one and only' F. persica in flower but it's still in leaf!!!!!!!
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A pair pictures of another yellow Caucasian - F. collina, it is not so easy outside
Your yellow Caucasian Frit is such a lovely colour and marking, Janis, and Fritillaria kotschyana Craigton Max - raised by Ian Young - is - fabulous :)
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A couple of Fritillaria imperialis are now open. Both of these are new, although i only ordered the selection 'Striped Beauty', but one of the bulbs was a forma lutea. I've pollinated the flowers with F. raddeana, so the fingers are firmly crossed.
I saw few hybrids with raddeana at some flower show in Holland many years ago, but I nothing hear about them later. They really looked intermediate, with smaller flowers than in imperialis but I never tried such crosses by myself.
Janis
Janis,
Luit pictured a few of the new hybrids in the 'Lisse' thread at
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4969.90
They look quite nice, but, as they were bred for the flower trade, rather than garden, they may be less adaptable. In any case, I'll let you all know in about 5-6 years!
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and Fritillaria kotschyana Craigton Max - raised by Ian Young - is - fabulous :)
Anything raised by Ian Young is fabulous Robin. Look at the great job he's done with Maggi. :P
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Fritillaria whittallii
Received as F. gussichiae from a UK supplier
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Fritillaria graeca
From Frit Group seed - received as F. pontica var. substipelata.
I think this is F. graeca subsp. thessala
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Gerry, it's always disappointing to get the wrong thing but your whittallii is very refined and elegant. :)
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Gerry, it's always disappointing to get the wrong thing but your whittallii is very refined and elegant. :)
I agree Lesley, so I'm not too disappointed.
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Fritillaria acmopetala is in bloom right now in the area of Antalya, it seems there aren't two flowers that looks a like, some elongated, darker, more or less reddish in color
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Fritillaria acmopetala is in bloom right now in the area of Antalya, it seems there aren't two flowers that looks a like, some elongated, darker, more or less reddish in color
Oron - thanks for showing these in the wild. Since F. acmopetala is easy to grow & relatively common in cultivation it tends to be overlooked. In my view, it is one of the most beautiful frits.
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Fritillaria acmopetala is in bloom right now in the area of Antalya, it seems there aren't two flowers that looks a like, some elongated, darker, more or less reddish in color
Oron - thanks for showing these in the wild. Since F. acmopetala is easy to grow & relatively common in cultivation it tends to be overlooked. In my view, it is one of the most beautiful frits.
I agree, it is very nice, and most important - easy in cultivation species. I never saw it in wild in blooming time, so very surprised for its great variability. Especially beautiful is the plant on the second picture. My general impression about acopetala was based on few clones which superficially is quite similar by flower differing in height and blooming time only, so I didn't give to it great atention. Thanks Oron, for showing how nice they can be.
Janis
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Memo to self: "take a better pic of Fritillaria ruthenica" tomorrow.
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Fritillaria epirotica in the box, free from planted.
Karl
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Memo to self: "take a better pic of Fritillaria ruthenica" tomorrow.
Anthony - I look forward to seeing your "better pic". I'm not sure this is F. ruthenica.
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Fritillaria epirotica in the box, free from planted.
Karl
What a delightful little plant F. epirotica is. Probably my favourite frit.
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Memo to self: "take a better pic of Fritillaria ruthenica" tomorrow.
Anthony - I look forward to seeing your "better pic". I'm not sure this is F. ruthenica.
Oh dear. I'll check the label again. Another memo to self: prescription renewed for glasses.
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Some of Petilium cultivars from my garden. And F. persica.
Petilium imperiale:
Rubra Maxima & Aureomarginata
Argenteovariegata & Prolifera aff.
Argenteovariegata
Sulphurino
Aureomarginata
Maxima Lutea
P. imperiale cultivars in garden
F. persica & P. imperiale cultivars in garden
P. eduardii
P. raddeanum from Iran
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And more some frit pics from me for today ;D
F. persica
F. aurea
Rhinopetalum bucharicum Nurek Giant
F. grandiflora
F. meleagris, from wild of Lvov region
F. montana
F. ruthenica, from Seversky Donets river bayrak forests
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Dimitri - nice to see your F. ruthenica. It seems to be the real thing. Quite rare in cultivation.
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Dimitri - nice to see your F. ruthenica. It seems to be the real thing. Quite rare in cultivation.
Is it the same as mine then Gerry?
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Dimitri - nice to see your F. ruthenica. It seems to be the real thing. Quite rare in cultivation.
Is it the same as mine then Gerry?
Anthony- the characteristic feature of F. ruthenica is the coiled, tendril like leaves. These are clearly visible on Dimitri's plant but not on yours. The leaves are very similar to those of F. verticillata (hort.). I have the impression that most of the plants sold/distributed in the UK as F. ruthenica are in fact members of the F. montana group & I think yours probably is too.
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These sort of tendrils Gerry? Just as well these didn't come from a UK supplier.
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These sort of tendrils Gerry? Just as well these didn't come from a UK supplier.
Yes - these look more like it. It is probably correctly named after all.
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I knew I'd get there in the end. Just need to photograph the right bits. ;D
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Anthony - your frit "ruthenica" has oily rounded flower surface - it's a feauture is characteristic for only one frit from this group - Fritillaria meleagroides, and I think your frit isn't montana, it is Fritillaria meleagroides. True ruthenica and montana have glaucescent flower surface. My frits ruthenica and meleagroides grow in my region in bayrak forests and wet meadows along river Seversky Donets. I think also that holland trade stocks aren't true ruthenica.
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here some pics of my frits meleagroides and ruthenica from my region. The first likes to grow in wet meadows even in water in full sun, the second likes more dry position but ONLY in forest in semi-shade.
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Well I certainly didn't get them from Holland! Are the two species sympatric Dimitri?
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Anthony - I think you will only be able to identify your frit with some degree of confidence if it produces seed capsules. According to Martyn Rix, that of F. ruthenica is winged whereas that of F. meleagroides is not.The old Flora of the USSR describes the capsule of the former as "winged, 6-angled" & that of the latter as "oblong-ovoid, obtusely 3-angled."
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Thanks Gerry. That will help as I have pics of the seed capsules at home.
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Yes, Anthony - these two species are sympatric and even share the same area but not ecotope! And Gerry is right, these two species differs by ovary and then fruit with wings (ruthenica) or wingless (meleagroides).
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Yes, Anthony - these two species are sympatric and even share the same area but not ecotope! And Gerry is right, these two species differs by ovary and then fruit with wings (ruthenica) or wingless (meleagroides).
I've checked. The seed pods of plants from which mine came are acutely angled like the points of a star.
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So, Anthony, if fruits of your frit are winged, it must be more probable F. ruthenica as the tendrils (although not well developped :'() are clearly visible.
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I agree. I wonder if the leaves will show more of the characteristic feature as they age?
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Fritillaria caucasica (1) was the first to flower here together with Fritillaria stenanthera (2) with Fritillaria sewertzovii (3) and Fritillaria pinardii (4) to follow
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I agree. I wonder if the leaves will show more of the characteristic feature as they age?
They come from proven stock that has been in the garden of the grower for over twenty years.
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Oleg, how nice it is to see these beauties coming to life after winter in your garden...all seem to be growing really well 8)
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These are some photos of a Fritillaria meleagris natural habitat. There are two of them in the Schwäbisch Hall county (80k E of Stuttgart in SW Germany) - one with a handful of flowers, and one with a few hundred, including at least four whites.
The latter one is fenced in (un?)fortunately, and few plants are in photo distance.
They grow alongside Caltha palustris in the wettest part of the meadow, next to an abandoned drainage ditch. Other notable flowers nearby are Cardamine pratensis and Colchicum autumnale (in foliage, of course), both known for their humid but not necessarily wet preferences.
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Hi Thomas,
Great pictures and plants!
I will be in SW Germany in two more weeks. Will there be still some flowers left to see?
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I am afraid they are all faded in two weeks' time.
When and where will you be?
Hi Thomas,
Great pictures and plants!
I will be in SW Germany in two more weeks. Will there be still some flowers left to see?
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Thank you, Maggi, for sharing the pleasure to look at them. Next fortnight will be the peak of frit flowering together with american erythroniums.
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I am afraid they are all faded in two weeks' time.
When and where will you be?
I sent you a message.
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Fritillaria meleagris today
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Fritillaria meleagris today
Beautiful clumps pf these plants, Wolfgang.
As Ian says in this week's Bulb Log, there really isn't a better frit !
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I'm beginning to think I'll need more than the nine lives allocated to cats so I can devote one to each group of plants or animal that has become my very latest favourite. ::) I didn't know there were so many species! Here's a link to the latest bulb log full of them. :o http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010Apr281272458633BULB_LOG__1710.pdf
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Anthony,
yup, some really amazing Frits in Ian and Maggies Eden.
A question on you all, as I have just finsished a samll rockery for my arils, which means it is almost 12" of gravel and a touch of loam on a sandy clay base. Tendence alkaline, as I added calcium. Which Frits would feel at home in this type of bed? As I fail with many in the garden, I have always though my heavy soil was the problem. Now's my chance to make a new attempt. Suggestions, please.
Jamie
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A question on you all, as I have just finsished a samll rockery for my arils, which means it is almost 12" of gravel and a touch of loam on a sandy clay base. Tendence alkaline, as I added calcium. Which Frits would feel at home in this type of bed? As I fail with many in the garden, I have always though my heavy soil was the problem. Now's my chance to make a new attempt. Suggestions, please.
Jamie
I would start with F. meleagris which is cheap. Most other frits are expensive to very expensive so after that I would proceed with caution. Raising from seed is cheap but takes about 5 years. Some people (not me) find F. acmopetala succeeds outside & I found F. pyrenaica did reasonably well. However, even in a raised bed with gritty soil while some other frits survived for a time they eventually died out. It may be a good idea to plant some sort of shrub or tree which will keep the bed dry in summer.
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Gerry, et al,
I do have F. meleagris in the garden, where it does seed about in the moister areas. I doubt it would relish the extreme dryness of the aril bed, but I will sprinkle some seed about and see.
At this point, I am thinking on moving my F. persicum to this bed, as they are no longer getting enough sun where they are, against a garden wall, and rearely bloom well.
What about F. whittalii, F. bithynica,or F. grandiflora? I have some seed of some spanish Frits, which I plan to add to the bed, as well.
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Gerry, et al,
What about F. whittalii, F. bithynica,or F. grandiflora?
Jamie - I've never tried these outside &, at £3-5 per bulb, wouldn't risk it. However, it's up to you.
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What about F. whittalii, F. bithynica,or F. grandiflora?
We have these growing unprotected in pots sitting in an open frame and they are doing well... the plan now is to get them planted direct in the garden. They are seed raised, for the most part.
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What about F. whittalii, F. bithynica,or F. grandiflora?
We have these growing unprotected in pots sitting in an open frame and they are doing well... the plan now is to get them planted direct in the garden. They are seed raised, for the most part.
I have the first two growing in a similar fashion. But, based on previous experience, I have no plans to plant them out in the garden. However, I think it impossible to generalise; everyone's conditions are different.
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You're right, Gerry, there is a difference between a pot in an open frame and the open garden.... but as these are seedraised we hope they are already predisposed to life in Aberdeen in all its glory and will enjoy their freedom!
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Fritillaria meleagris today
Wolfgang,
nice fat clumps of 'Schachbrettblumen'. You seem to have no problems with Lily Beetles.
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Everything that you grow in your garden seems to grow so well, Wolfgang, I love the groups of F meleagris - both normal and the white and your groups show them off so well - do you have a magic potion? :D
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First time I have grown this Fritillaria and I love the graceful growth habit and bell/ bells as some stems have two flowers.
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Thank you all for the interest
Many greetings, Wolfgang
F. purdyi Martha Roderick
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F. grandiflora and F. vertilcilliata today
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Here sdome species from Far East (Siberia)
Fritillaria maximowiczii - 2 pictures
Fritillaria ussuriensis
Fritillaria walujevii
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Here sdome species from Far East (Siberia)
Fritillaria maximowiczii - 2 pictures
Fritillaria ussuriensis
Fritillaria walujevii
Beautiful Frits Janis, I like F. walujevii best with the broad shouldered bells and green-toned tops.
I have a Frit in flower, originally from Chen Yi identified as F. unibracteata, but since almost everything from Chen Yi is misidentified, I'm showing 3 pics for other opinions.
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Here sdome species from Far East (Siberia)
Fritillaria maximowiczii - 2 pictures
Fritillaria ussuriensis
Fritillaria walujevii
Beautiful Frits Janis, I like F. walujevii best with the broad shouldered bells and green-toned tops.
I have a Frit in flower, originally from Chen Yi identified as F. unibracteata, but since almost everything from Chen Yi is misidentified, I'm showing 3 pics for other opinions.
Yes, it is unibracteata
Janis
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Fritillaria orientalis in Georgia near Kazbegi grows in splits of vertical rock in very peaty leafmold soil under shrubs. It still didn't started blooming. On third picture its seedlings in peat pockets on vertical rock.
Janis
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Fritillaria collina was in full bloom at same locality. It was growing on flat meadows with sparse other vegetation. This surprised me as earlier I saw it only under shrubs in sparse birch forests.
Janis
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The collina is very good, a strong form with robust foliage.
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The collina is very good, a strong form with robust foliage.
There was only one spot where we found it. So I collected no one bulb (I have it from neighbour N Osethia and from Armenia, as well as from neighbour Truso gorge, collected by Czech collector). Locally collina is very abundant. It is good grower in open garden. It was a little too early, orientalis were only in buds, but I showed it here just for its very specific habitat. Habitat of Fritillaria latifolia was covered by 1 m thick snow.
Janis
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I like to show you 3 forms of Fritillaria biflora
Fritillaria biflore
mutation I
mutation II
Wim
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Can anyone put a name to this Frit?
I have grown it from seed (Chiltern seed), obtained as F. falcata which it obviously is not.
I don't like it & 4 years wasted anticipation, so it would be nice to get rid of it with a name.
Pete.
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Pete, I'm not sure what this one is but my 'falcata' from Chiltern Seeds is very slow to reach flowering size. Although I was resigned to waiting I didn't think I'd have to worry too :-\ ;)
Could you show a picture of the foliage please?
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Can anyone put a name to this Frit?
Hi Pete, it looks like from the F biflora group - perhaps F biflora ineziana which used to be called F grayana
http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?stat=BROWSE_IMG&query_src=photos_browseimgs_plant_sci&where-genre=Plant&where-taxon=Fritillaria+biflora+var.+ineziana&title_tag=Fritillaria+biflora+var.+ineziana (http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?stat=BROWSE_IMG&query_src=photos_browseimgs_plant_sci&where-genre=Plant&where-taxon=Fritillaria+biflora+var.+ineziana&title_tag=Fritillaria+biflora+var.+ineziana)
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Is it not grayana or what is also known as biflora `
Wayne Martha Roderick?'
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Diane your note came up just as I was writing mine. I think we mean the same thing.
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Diane your note came up just as I was writing mine. I think we mean the same thing.
"Wayne Roderick" is a form of F affinis tristulis.
"Martha Roderick" is a form of biflora, at one point called F roderickii, then F biflora ssp biflora, now F biflora ssp ineziana.
I am sure we do mean the same thing, but life is sometimes confusing (and plant names are often confusing). It seems there was some confusion a year ago, oddly, almost to the day:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2987.360 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2987.360)
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[quote author=Diane Clement link=topic=4972.msg151748#msg151748 It seems there was some confusion a year ago, oddly, almost to the day:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2987.360 (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2987.360)
[/quote]
hmmm! .........plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose :D ( in many ways!! ;D
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I agree - it looks like 'Martha Roderick'.
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hmmm! .........plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose :D ( in many ways!! ;D
not thinking of politics, by any chance, Maggi, were you? :o :o
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Truly I was thinking of we poor confused gardeners and the added trials of taxonomy for our addled brains.... but since you mention it............ :-X
By the way... Frit. biflora in general and 'Martha Roderick' in particular, is one of the most stinking yucky smelling frits ever :o ..... I strongly advise against ever travelling in a car with one in flower..... truly revolting pong! :( :P
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OK so I'd better bow out, obviously making the confusion worse than ever. My original biflora 'Martha Roderick' and grayana (as grayana) were sent to me by Wayne Roderick himself and were different, the grayana being very distict with the creamy-white patches. MR was more brown and green.
If the pics in the link you gave Maggi, were purdyi, what is this then, from Ratko seed as purdyi.
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Did I give a link to purdyi? Can't recall! :-[
edit: Oh, yes, i see... in the previous page to the one linked.... from Wolfgang.... yesm, I see what you mean. Those are darker with a more defined central stripe but still....
Your pic does look like F. purdyi, Lesley. There are paler and darker forms.... plenty variability in this as in so many others!
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No it was the link to the Martha Rodericks I think but Gerry W or someone said they could be purdyi, agreeing with someone else. Or maybe I'm just totally confused. It's only 11am too.
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Here there are purdyi that were labelled Martha Roderick.....
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2987.msg91988#msg91988
then, here : http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2987.345 Mike Ireland had 'Martha Roderick' that are, only they were initially c labelled affinis not biflora.....
there's a fair amount of scope for confusion here, for sure! ;D
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Oh yes, now I get it. I have a bucket ready to put my head in. :-[
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The last frits bloom at me this year
F. meleagroides - meadows along river Severskiy Donets, SE Ukraine
F. olgae - C. Asia
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Thanks everyone for your expert identification of my Frit.
Ashley - her is a picture of the foliage & flower. Height = 7-8 inches.
Maggie - I havn't detected any smell from it.
Pete.
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Thanks Pete. Mine could be the same; time will tell :-\
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Fritillaria messanensis gracilis is exaptionnally robust this year
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Can anyone help identify this Fritillaria. Is it a pontica?
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Oleg - since it is faintly tessellated I would be inclined to say F. thessala. You can distinguish F. pontica from F. thessala by the seed capsule. That of the former is winged & that of the latter is unwinged.
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The story of Fritillaria biflora Martha Roderick
When I visited Wayne Roderick in 1985 we tolked about Frit roderickii, where the habitat was and the time of flowering, it was then begin of April and that was not the ride time to see it in flower, so before I went home Wayne gave mea small pot with one bulb in it and told me that that was the real Frit. roderickii and that it was not growing very well on his place.
So when I came home we put it in Tissue culture and the next year we got 100 bulbs to tray out, year later we got 5000 bulbs from the laberatorium and year later a other 10000 bulbs, we grew that on for a couple of years with succes.
I think it was in 1991 or 1992 when I went to the AGS conference in Birmingham and I brought 10 pots with Frit. roderickii for the auction, it was then that Wayne told us that it was not Frit. roderickii anymor because Roger Macfarlane had find out that it was a form of Frit. biflora.
Wayne was not agree with it and also the judge committy did not, so they dicided at that moment that the Frit. I gave for the auction was not Frit. roderickii but Frit. biflora Martha Roderick after the mother of Wayne.
S you can say a succes story, we have never havea succes with Fritillarias in Tissue culture.
Anyway. the stok of Frit. biflora Martha Roderick does not exist anymore, when I quit with the Firm and started Kwekerij De Schullhorn in 2000 they sold the stok to a other nursery and they lost the hole stok.
So it would be intresting to find some bulbs for building up a new stok
Wim
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Thank you, Gerry. So it'll be clear in a few weeks
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The story of Fritillaria biflora Martha Roderick........
That's a very interesting story Wim. I remember 'Martha Roderick' being widely available in the 90s & very cheap. I also remember that it was difficult to establish & the bulbs tended to die after a year or so. This seemed to be a common problem with frit microprops.
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I'm enjoying this (1)Fritillaria taipaiense (new for me) and (2) Fritillaria affinis tristulis due to Susan Band
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This one was bought as F. nigra, is it?
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We say it's F. montana ...... nigra is not a "good" name.... is a old synonym of pyrenaica but in cultivation it mostly turns out to be a form of montana .
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Thanks, will update the label :)
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Fogot to post this patch of Fritillaria pyrenaica (1) and Fritillaria kamchatensis modestly flowering this year (2)
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Oleg, modestly or abandoned your Fritillaria revel in your garden, they are super plants :)
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Oleg,
your F. pyrenaica looks so happy. What kind of soil is it growing in?
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Thank you Robin and Jamie. Nothing special about the soil, but I topdress this flowerbed with selfmade compost mixed with sand once a couple of years + feed it with potassium following Ian Young's advice in his bulblog. You can see the traces of it at the bottom of the picture (white).
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Last frits for this season
1. Fritillaria affinis
2. Fritillaria affinis yellow from Susan Band
3. Fritillaria pontica
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Could this be Fritillaria cirrhosa?
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I wouldn't have thought so but I've only seen my own, in the flesh.
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Could this be Fritillaria cirrhosa?
I don't think so either, Stephen.
Here's my Fritillaria cirrhosa
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My only Fritillaria camtschatkensis Fl Pl is trying it out again. An "interesting" variety ;D.
The yellow ones seem to like it nowadays.
I recieved this open-floering variety from a German friend. Is this the Alaskan form?
Cheers
Göte
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That double of yours really wants to be a tulip, doesn't it?
Your last Frit. is indeed the Alaskan form of F. camschatensis.
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That double of yours really wants to be a tulip, doesn't it?
Your last Frit. is indeed the Alaskan form of F. camschatensis.
I think it does or perhaps an artichoke. (Megalomania) ;D
Thank you I thought so
Göte
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All my so-called Alaskan form of F. cams... are green/black rather than red/black. So what.....?
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Göte: Fantastic pictures - particularly like the yellow, don't think I've seen such a nice group of this one before! Must try that one again... I also had a green form briefly, but I lost it.
Are Alaskan forms always more open flowering? Is that the only distinguishing feature (a forumist kindly sent me masses of wild collected Alaskan seed in the winter). My interest of course is in the earlier widespread use of this species for food...
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Hi,
There is variety in the Frits from Alaska, although they all have more green and are smaller than the siberian one. The larger dark one tends to send out more stolons and less flowering stalks, the leaves are larger as well. You know when you have both types they are very distinct. Sorry but I don't seem to have a picture, I will see if it is still flowering this afternoon.
Susan
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There is no doubt at all about it being the Alaskan form.
As Susan says they are very distinct in the flower shape as well as the colour the Alaskan form always having some degree of green something I have never seen in the Asian forms.
We often perceive the colour as black but careful observation will show that it is really a deep dark maroon.
Check out the pictures on Bulb log 21
http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/2010May281275048030BULB_LOG__2110.pdf
or an earlier one here.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2008/290508/log.html
where you can compare the two types.
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Thanks for the references Ian and the comparative pictures. I didn't make the comparison at the time, never having questioned what mine were, until Gote's comment. Mine are under at present of course and I'll check carefully in the late spring - even up until Christmas we have F. cams.. in flower. But I'm pretty sure mine ARE the Alakan form, with the widely flaring bells. I don't have the other, except perhaps as seedlings, unflowered. There's no vestige of red at all, in mine, just the green shade, darkening to almost black.
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All my so-called Alaskan form of F. cams... are green/black rather than red/black. So what.....?
My Alaskian plants are dark, but not so dark as from opposite side of Pacific. They are something more reddish shaded. Flowers are something more open, but no so dramatically as in Gote's plants.
Janis
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So, what's the verdict on my plant:
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So, what's the verdict on my plant:
I'd say Asian, Stephen.
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So, what's the verdict on my plant:
I'd say Asian, Stephen.
HaHA, the BD has just looked and said he thinks it may just be an Alaskan!! ;D
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Following my mention of the "BD" , a digression topic began on the subject which may be followed here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5621.0 ;D
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Could someone please identify this Fritillaria.
Thanks in advance
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This, with the little "antlers", is most likely to be F. pontica, Art.
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Maggi
That is what the label said, so I am delighted for confirmation. :)
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This, with the little "antlers", is most likely to be F. pontica, Art.
As far as I am aware, F. pontica is the only frit to have bulbs of this shape.
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Wouldn't it be great if every species had some unique characteristic which made ID so certain? ::)
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Quite a number of Frits out currently .however the two i'm most taken with are F.latifolia --such a wonderful large flower and F. aurea .
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There will be bulbs for sale from the collection of the late Jim Archibald at the Fritillaria Group meeting (and AGM) at Wisley on 26th September.... see here :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6046.msg166787#msg166787
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Quite a number of Frits out currently .however the two i'm most taken with are F.latifolia --such a wonderful large flower and F. aurea .
Dave, I'm taken with these two also (just learnt this expression by a dictionary).
Gerd
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Fritillaria messanensis ssp messanensis, originally from Marcus Harvey about 8 years ago, is flowering well this year,
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cheers
fermi
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Looks good Fermi. :)
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A friend recently gave me a pot of seed grown Fritillaria persica!
It was in flower a couple of weeks ago,
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Another Fritillaria which has come up without a label (How?! I only planted it in autumn!) and is most likely Fritillaria graeca ssp thessala (from Marcus Harvey) was also in bloom then,
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cheers
fermi
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Fermi , here is what I grow as F. graeca ssp. thessala , flowering last week , also a couple of yellows some 3 weeks ago.
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Fermi,
Oh that persica!! Is it as nice in person as it looks in the pictures? I've never managed to actually see it in person, although I do have young ones coming (very) slowly along. Congratulations!!