Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Travel / Places to Visit => Topic started by: gervandenbeuken on February 08, 2010, 11:04:12 AM
-
Two weeks ago we returned form our 3th Patagonia tour.
This expedition was completely focused on the rosulate Viola species.
Exactly 10 different species were planned to find and finaly we found beside these 10 species perhaps 3 new species.
We left on Newyears day and returned three weeks later.
Our tour started in San Carlos de Bariloche and finished about 500 km more to the North in Chos Mala.
To give an impression of this very succesfull tour I will post in the following days some photos and will start with the proposed subject,
Viola species!!
Viola aff. escondidaensis 1
Viola columnaris
Viola congesta
Viola coronifera
Viola cotyledon (2)
Viola dasyphylla
Viola sacculus
Viola trochlearis
Viola vulcanica
Viola aff. escondidaensis 2
-
I need to make two corrections.
The place were we finished our tour was Chos Malal.
Also there are posted two identical photos of Viola aff. escondidaensis.
One of these must be Viola tectiflora.
-
For this person who regards these south american violas as some of the most beautiful plants on the planter, Ger, your posts are making me a very happy woman!
I don't think I can remember seeing a photo of Viola tectiflora before.... what amazing leaves! Superb posts.... I hope you will enjoy sharing with us some details of the habitats of these wonderful plants.
-
Very nice photos of beautiful plants, Ger. Have you ever tried growing these rosulate Viola's yourself?
-
I have made a start now Wim, with seeds of Viola vulcanica,cotyledon, trochlearis and tectiflora.
It will be a very exciting spring this year.
-
Wowza!!!!!!!!!
There is nothing that sends me to a state of shock faster than rosulate violets, all are MAGNIFICENT! Although if I had to pick just one, it would be V. sacculus, love how the colorful folaige shows off the white blooms. Funny, just last night I found your Patagonia 2009 SRGC photos and I've hardly recovered from that shock of seeing so many fantastic plants.
-
Maggie, Viola cotyledon, columnaris, coronifera, dasyphylla and sacculus are growing on open vulcanic rocky places.
Viola vulcanica, trochlearis,tectiflora, congesta and aff.escondidaensis are growing in very fine volcanic sand.
-
Many thanks Mark for the nice comments. Tastes differ. I prefer Viola coronifera. We were just in time on the summit of the Cerro Colohuincul to see the last plants in flower.
We were very lucky to see so many different species in flower.
-
Many thanks Mark for the nice comments. Tastes differ. I prefer Viola coronifera. We were just in time on the summit of the Cerro Colohuincul to see the last plants in flower.
We were very lucky to see so many different species in flower.
Well, there's nothing wrong with V. coronifera, it too is fantastic. :o Bright yellow flowers, like V. auricolor you posted 3 photos of in the 2009 Patagonia thread. Just going back there now, I'm still reeling from the Junellia photos, the S. American counterpart to Verbena. I can't wait to see more photos.
-
How do the leaves feel? Are they thick?
-
I do not understand your question Diane.
From which species do you need to know.
-
Next ten pix. Enjoy.
Adesmia boronoides on the Passo Cordoba
Chloraea cylindrostachya
Junellia patagonica f.morenonis
Junellia succulentifolia
Oxalis erythrorhyza on the Cerro Cathedral
Oxalis erythrorhyza
Oxalis nahuelhuapiensis
Ranunculus semivericillatus
Ranunculus semiverticillatus
Tropaeolum incisum
-
All of them. I have never seen a plant, just pictures.
At a quick glance, they look like sempervivum. The leaves
may be thick.
But when I enlarge the pictures, the leaves look furry.
So - in general, are they thick, or thick and furry?
-
Amazing pics :o Thank you very much
I can't wait for the next ones ::)
-
I'm always amazed by rosulate Violas but that Ranunculus beats them all. Cliff Booker will swoon and shake when he sees those pictures
-
Diane, not all species are the same. From Viola sacculus, dasyphylla, cotyledon and cornonifera the leaves are quite thick. And completely different from V. vulcanica,trochearis and tectiflora.
The next 10
Calandrinia caespitosa ssp.skottsbergii
Calceolaria polyrrhiza
Ourisia alpina
Ourisia fragrans
Oxalis adenophylla
Passo Cordoba region
Perezia pilifera
Tristagma patagonica
Viola coronifera
Viola dasyphylla
-
Ger
Thank you very much for beautiful photos of incredible plants! Are you sure you was not at Mars? :o Plants and flowers looks like from other planet!
Best regards from my friend Elena Dobrjanskaya. Right now she is showing her Patagonia images at one russian forum. :)
-
Do you think I was dreaming Olga?
Please give Elena the very best wishes from Mariet and me.
The next 10
Azorella monantha
Buddleya globosa
Caltha apendiculata (2)
Caltha apendiculata
Oreopolus glacialis
Polygala salaciana
Ranunculus semiverticillatus
Rhodophiala andicola
Viola dasyphylla
Viola sacculus
-
I am totally amazed by your pictures Ger, I can only imagine how wonderful it must be to see these in person.
The violas are wonderful, I have never seen one of these plants and probably never likely to either .
I am with Diane in wondering what the leaves feel like.
If I ever win the lottery I know where I am going.
Thanks for sharing.
-
Good grief Ger, seems that Patagonia has cornered the market on gorgeous pulvinate or rosulate plants! The rosettes on Oxalis erythrorhyza almost don't look real. Nice side view of Viola sacculus, still my favorite I think, although trying to pick favorites here is impossible, they're all so special. And Tristagma patagonica - WOW! :o
-
Many thanks Ger for all your pictures, I almost feel in the midst of the flowers the pictures are so very good, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
-
Ger,
thank you for introducing an alien world to me. Marvelous, delightful, amazing... :o 8)
I hope you will show us more surprises ;) :D
-
Just marvelous! the plants, landscapes and pictures!
Thanks for sharing.
-
Many thanks Mark for the nice comments. Tastes differ. I prefer Viola coronifera.
Could you please explain how the taste differs? ;) Over here it's quite common to serve up violet flowers in ice cubes - would be worth growing just to be able to impress the guests with some Rosulate Violet ice cubes....
Seriously, though, some fantastic pictures - I was once fortunate to see a couple of species on a trip to Chile - pictures not very accessible on slides..
-
Maybe GerdK is away, I would have expected him to be in a quivering state at this thread.
-
Ger a great selection of pictures of wonderful plants.Many thanks for showing them.
-
Good morning,
I hope you enjoy the following 10 items.
Ger
Calceolaria borsinii
Chaetanthera villosa
Nassauvia lagascae ssp. lagascae
Oreopolus glacialis + Viola cotyledon
Oxalis adenophylla on the Volcan Batea Mahuida
Senecio boelckei
Vieuw from Volcan Batea Mahuida
Viola aff. coronifera
Viola cotyledon.
Viola trochlearis (2)
-
next 10.....
Azorella monantha
Calandrinia affinis
Calandrinia colchaguensis
Grindelia anethifolia
Maihuenia poepigii
Montiopsis gayana
Rhodophiala andicola
Viola cotyledon x columnaris (2)
Viola cotyledon x columnaris
Viola trochlearis
-
Ger,
very nice pictures once again, all those plants I had never heard of. I like that Polygala salaciana a lot.
There's one plant (Maihuenia poepigii) there which I grow and survives the Belgian weather outside.
-
A nice day in the snow in Copahue and the day after nice Araucaria forests.
Botanising on a snowy day
Gauchos in Copahue
Viola cotyledon in the snow
_DSC0207
Araucaria forest
_DSC0129
Gaucho at work
P1040734
Mimulus cupreus
Rhodophiala elwesii
-
Some nice pictures of Viola columnaris and Chuquiraga straminea
-
The landscape and plants are just breathtaking Ger, I must go one day.
The light must be very strong so you have a good depth of field and everything is in focus. Do you need a tripod?
-
No Richard, I never use a tripod. Indeed we had very strong light. This is not what I need for good photos. Very hard to make good pictures in these strong light conditions.
You know almost always a part of the plant is in shade. On the other hand you have a huge depth of field.
-
WOW :o -superb pictures, thanks for showing them!
Never have been in this area, but after seeing your pictures maybe next year. ;)
-
Ger, your photos are outstanding and fascinating even if difficult to take in high contrast light...they show such extraordinary, tenacious plants in the wildest of landscapes where they live alone except, it seems, for the Gauchos and their herds....
Do animals grazing eat any of these plants?
-
Another astonishing trip you're taking us on, Ger !! :o :o
Great show !
Thanks so much for sharing !
-
Oxalis erythrorhyza
Ger - Wonderful pictures. I am fairly certain this is the Oxalis species that a friend was growing fairly successfully in St. John's, Newfoundland.
johnw
-
Ger,
Outstanding and fascinating pictures, Thanks.
How large are the Rosettes of the Viola?
-
10 pictures of different forms of Viola cotyledon
-
the following 10
Alstroemeria aurea
Alstroemeria diazii
Calandrinia aff. sericea
Close up Viola tectiflora
Junellia micrantha
Oxalis compacta
Oxalis squamata
Viola congesta
Viola tectiflora
Viola trochlearis
-
And the last 8.
I really hope you enjoyed the pictures.
Perhaps see you on one of our forward trips to S. America.
Ger
_DSC0254
_DSC0396
Mutisia linearifolia
Ourisia microphylla
Viola aff. cotyledon
Viola aff. trochlearis
My wife Mariet is waiting patient as usually
Always hunting on plants
-
We have some excellent travel/plant reports here but this has to be one of the best ever. Amazing plants and scenery, beautifully recorded, sometimes quite breathtaking. Thanks very much for sharing your adventures with us. (And for all that sunshine :) 8) :) I expect it was cold up there but the bright skies certainly warmed my heart in these gloomy winter days!)
-
An excellent report with mouthwatering photos, thank you Ger!
Friends, some of the photo files are rather larger than we normally have, please just bear with it!
-
Viola trochlearis, foliage and flowers, are ::)... really wonderful
-
Many , many thanks you all for your nice comments.
It was a real pleasure to share our tour-memories with you all.
If somebody has any question, I will try to answer
Ger
-
Hello Franz,
depending on the species. The rosettes of Viola tectiflora are from 3 up to 6 cm.
From Viola columnaris the rosettes are 5 to sometimes 8 or 9 cm.
Most species however have rosettes of about 5 to 6 cm square.
-
Wow,
what a show, thank you so much for these beautiful pictures.
Some look like from an other planet; it is a pity, that many of them
are ungrowable for us average rockgardeners.
-
I have even no words for this Ger.
What a great tour !!! I won't try to pick one out ,could not choose anyway.
This must be one of the best Viola-tours ever made. :)
Must see the pictures few times more....and enjoy it again and again.
-
MAGNIFICENT THREAD. INCREDIBLE IMAGES. BREATHTAKING HABITAT. WONDROUS PLANTS. MANY THANKS GER.
-
Ger, the climate must be very harsh. These flowers are surrounded by dry sand and gravel so must have deep and searching root systems to survive where nothing else can. How much rain falls in the summer, and what are the temperatures in day and night when the flowers are open?
-
"Ger, the climate must be very harsh. These flowers are surrounded by dry sand and gravel so must have deep and searching root systems to survive where nothing else can. How much rain falls in the summer, and what are the temperatures in day and night when the flowers are open?"
Worst, the never stopping winds and gales.
-
Dear Richard and alberto,
In general, the Patagonian climate is moderate. The seasons are well defined, however, we can say that fall and spring are short, while winters are long.
There is great difference between summer and winter, as well as a substantial temperature difference between day and night. The average winter temperature is -2ºC and summer maximum temperatures can reach 40ºC at some places. In Tierra del Fuego, temperatures rise to 18ºC and annual rainfalls can be of approximately 800 mm. To be able to travel safely and enjoy the Patagonian landscape, the best time to see the plants in flower is the spring and the summer, between the months of November and January. Another characteristic of the Patagonian climate is the wind. It can blow up to 100 km/h, mainly in the central and Antarctic areas.
Viola vulcanica, trochlearis and tectiflora are growing in very fine vulcanic sand. At the moment you find the plants you think they grow in extremely dry conditions. Nothing is less true for approximately 10 cm below the surface sand was pretty moist.
-
Hello Kris,
many thanks for your kind comments.
I received several responses from specialists and they agree never again we can organize such a succesfull Viola tour.
Actually a result of the very long winter and cold spring in S. Argentina. The vegetation was quite late this year.
On the other hand I realise also now that there is a big difference in flowering time between the Province Neuquen and Santa Cruz.
Tot ziens volgende week Zaterdag in Utrecht.
Ger & Mariet
-
I have seen some of these violas on the show bench and they scarcely seem able to survive the conditions you describe. However these plants are well adapted with thick leaves and in some cases hairy leaves to reduce water loss.
The wind speed will also be much lower at only 10cm from the ground, and any rocks will create favourable microclimates for survival. Many of your pictures show plants near or between rocks and this must must allow germination to occur more easily in these places.
-
It's hard to express more than what viewers of this thread have already expressed, but I still must THANK YOU for the most amazing and intimate exposé on rosulate violets I have ever seen. The photo essays on V. columnaris and V. cotyledon paint a memorable portrait of diversity and adaptation to harsh Patagonian environments, and I feel as if for the first time, I truly have a sense about what these plants look like. I'll be coming back to this thread over and over again to see the violets and all the other exciting plants too.
The pure white and various shades of blue V. cotyledon are marvelous. And that last photo of V. trochlearis, with distinctive net-textured foliage, the leaves red-orange lined and a ruff of cilia, dark purple fls, and some open spent seed pods too, oh my, thanks Ger for "taking us there"!
A few questions:
1. Is the Flora of Patagonia well defined and described? It is such a vast area, I'm surprised there aren't more plant spa or "plant sp." photos. It is wonderful to see all of these plants, with their identifications.
2. Do you spend time in the field making species ID determinations, or do you do some of that afterwards by closely studing your photos?
3. Looking at rosulate viola rosettes, frequently in brown and earthy-color shades closely resembling their rocky surroundings, I imagine they are well camouflaged thus difficult to spot, particularly when not in flower. How hard are these to find?
-
Mark, Flora Patagonica is despite the urgent need to rewrite an indispensable book. Much information is outdated and particularly in recent years have been pretty much expeditions organized by botanists and specialists to Patagonia.
Therefore, a good professional botanist is indispensable during such travel. We had a professional botanist from the University of Bariloche joining our expedition and almost all species could get identified in the field. Afterward identifiation from Photos is very difficult. Paricularly the genus Junellia and Calceolaria is quite extensive.
Yes Mark, I agree with you that it is very hard to find plants like Viola vulcanica, trochlearis and tectiflora. Our botanist had some coordinates from former expeditions.
This is a very welcome advantage. Hopefully some of your questions are answered correctly.
-
In the latest Rock Garden 124, there is an ad on page 122 which
says you are organizing a trip in November 2011 to three places
in the high Andes. Have you travelled to these areas before?
-
No Diane, I was now 6 times in S. America. 5 times in North and South Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego en 1 time in Northern and Central Chile. It was my idea this time to organize an expedition to N. Argentina and Chile and Mendoza. In March a botanist and biologist go to these areas to explore the opportunities in terms of high alpine plants, accessibility of the high Andes and accomodation.We will go with a group of maximum15 people.
There is a currently list of 19 interested persons now. However perhaps there are people who decide later to cancel.
If you would want to be on this list without any obligation, you can pass me that by email.
Once I got the information I send everyone an email with details about options, accommodation, price and more.
Any question, don't hesitate to ask me.
Ger
-
I've only just now been pointed in the direction of this fabulous thread. How can I have missed it? Amazing plants and places Ger, and I thank you truly, madly, deeply, for sharing them with us.
-
thanks for this trip--amazing plants in a beautiful setting!
-
Ger
May I ask you for advice on sowing Patagonian viola?
-
Olga, no matter which Viola species I sow, I always use Gibberilic GA3 powder to get a quick germination.
Although species of Viola S. America are also quite new to me, I have sown Viola cotyledon in the past with a high germination rate. However, problems began after germination. By using Gibberilic the seedlings have the ability to lengthen. This problem will be greater if the dosage Gibberilic used increases. The dosage used is hard to say. I always use a toothpick. At the end is a very small amount Gibberilic powder GA3.
I use a paper towel, where I put on the seeds. I sprinkle the Gibberilic powder on the seeds. Then I saturate the tissue with sterilized water. Then fold the tissue for 24 hours and keep it in a plastic bag at room temperature. The seeds have to get dried on a piece of paper and then sow the seeds.
The seed medium I use for these S. American species is a mixture of lava gravel, perlite, sharp sand and a very small amount of sieved peat.
Good luck.
-
Ger
Thank you very much! I'll try to do that.
-
Olga, do you have any seeds of S. America species?
-
After 3 very successful previous expeditities to Patagonia I have planned to organize a new tour to S.Amerika in late 2011 or early 2012 led by a professional botanist.
If everything goes according to plan, this 3-week tour will go to N. Argentina, Chile and the Province Mendoza.( Aconcaqua region)
Botany, this time will be completely focused on the high alpine flora.
Everything is still at a stage of any investigation made by a botanist and a biologist in the areas. All relating to accessibility of the high Andes, vegetation, accommodation and cost. The group consists of up to 15 people and need to be in good physical condition.
At the moment my list of participants 19 persons. Experience shows that sometimes people will cancel last minute. Interested people can sign up without any obligation on my list of participants. When more details are known to all people I will mail this news. See also my advert in issue 124 of the Rock Garden.
-
Hi Ger!. It is very nice to see the Viola photos that we have seen in Patagonia!. I hope seeds works well and produce many tiny rosetes. Huge hug from Patagonia. Marcela. :)
-
Welcome to this wonderful forum Marcela ... you live in a remarkable place!
-
Only just discovered this thread and so glad I did.
Wonderful photos of magnificent plants. Thank you Ger for making this remote area so accessible.
-
Hi Marcela,
nice to meet you on the forum, a bit different from together in the field.
Ooh, by the way, many thanks for John Watsons email adress.
-
Ooh Marcela, I forgot to tell you.
The police took all my volcanic sand at the airport of Neuquen.
Now I hope that my own mix will work well for gemination.
Huge hug, Ger
-
Hi Ger!. It is very nice to see the Viola photos that we have seen in Patagonia!. I hope seeds works well and produce many tiny rosetes. Huge hug from Patagonia. Marcela. :)
welcome! wonderful to have someone who is on the ground in that amazing biome :)
-
Marcela, I am in touch with John Watson about the Viola species we found.
-
Olga, do you have any seeds of S. America species?
Yes, I've got some from Elena.
-
Ger, I missed your post and I'm reading, re reading and re re reading it for a long time !
Fantastic trip, text and PICTURES !!! Congratulations to you and your wife ;D I know she had to be patient...
The Viola are simply stunning, fascinnating me and I never seen so many excellent pics from this rosulate species.
many many thank's again for sharing with all of us,
fantastic post again :o
-
Fred, many thanks for your nice comments.
You know, my wife is well known with my way of working in the field.
She is much more patient than I am!!
-
Ger, I missed your post and I'm reading, re reading and re re reading it for a long time !
Fantastic trip, text and PICTURES !!! Congratulations to you and your wife ;D I know she had to be patient...
The Viola are simply stunning, fascinnating me and I never seen so many excellent pics from this rosulate species.
many many thank's again for sharing with all of us,
fantastic post again :o
Ger,
- so did I, not much to add! Fantastic!
Gerd
-
John Watson has emailed me that Viola aff. escondidaensis is Viola escondidaensis. So glad we found the real species.
See pic in the first set.
-
Gerd, do you have any experience with the cultivation of the rosulate Viola's.
Germination is not the problem, but it's getting quite difficult to grow up the young seedlings.
-
What a :o :o :o :o thread which I missed till today. Forum members keep posting plants that are absolutely amazingly different to the normal. What a trip and what unusual plants - uhm wonder how many are in Australia already? Not many I should imagine and probably never will be. Thanks so much for sharing Ger.
-
Gerd, do you have any experience with the cultivation of the rosulate Viola's.
Germination is not the problem, but it's getting quite difficult to grow up the young seedlings.
Yes, I tried to cultivate some rosulates. Unfortunately with limited success. For germination I used the same 'toothstick' method like you described. After that I kept the paper with seeds in a sealed plastic bag and stored them in a fridge at a termperature of about 4 ° C until the seedlings appeared. Then these were transplanted in a similar mix as yours.
Elongation was a problem too but not with all species.
Most trouble was caused during hot spells in summer when temperatures were high day and night and the potting medium became dry and warm.
All my losses were caused during these periods. I am in contact with two violet specialists which had the same problems. Sorry - seems not much help from my side.
A very successful grower (Cyril Lafong) gave the following cultivation hints:
The plants were cultivated in a large alpine house with overhead ventilation by fans (on and off every 15 minutes) all year round. Shading provided with whitening agent painted outside during June to August. A lot of water when in growth otherwise they tend to flop.
He pointed to his special climatic conditions (Scotland) where temperatures rarely exceed 25 ° Celsius.
Cyril added that he had reasonable success by using the mothods described but added that
these violets are definitely not easy. Nevertheless the longest time he managed to grow them was about to ten years.
So only to add from my side: try to give sufficient light, ventilation and cooling under your conditions and there will be a chance to have success.
Please let us know here about your results because the Andean rosulates are really worth to grow here in Europe.
Gerd
-
Many thanks Gerd for your information.
I think however that compared with the Scottish climate it will be much more difficult here in the Netherlands to grow S. America plants.
Anyway, we will see/ I collected some seeds from Viola vulcanica and V. trochlearis and I noticed already the first gemination.
-
I collected some seeds from Viola vulcanica and V. trochlearis and I noticed already the first germination.
Bravo, Ger, the first step is accomplished!
-
Hello! Sorry for my English. Thanks for yuor information and photos! It is very beautiful plant!
In November 2010, my friend from Russia studied the cacti in Chile and found an interesting Viola. What is this taxon?
Anatoly
Omsk, Siberia
-
Hello! Sorry for my English. Thanks Gerd for yuor information and photos! It is very beautiful plant!
In November 2010, my friend from Russia studied the cacti in Chile and found an interesting Viola. What is this taxon?
Anatoly
Omsk, Siberia
Dear Anatoly, this is definately a Rosulate Viola sp. Unfortunately I'm not able to determinate this plant.Nevertheless it is a fantastic species which we did not see during our tour. In the coming days I will do my best to identify this plant.
-
Have you tried here: http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/FloraEnglish/ESeeds.htm?G_START=336
http://www.chileflora.com/index.html
Michael have a nice homepage with lots of Chilean plants, and he do sell Viola seeds!
-
For those who are interested:
Ger will be giving a lecture about his Viola Tour for the Flemish Rock Garden Society on the 5th of February 2011 in Ghent (Belgium).
-
For those of you who would like to see more pics from this brilliant tour, but can't go to the meeting in Ghent: there are 4372 pics in my Patagonia gallery at http://keesjan.smugmug.com/Botanical-trips/North-and-South-America/Patagonia-January-2010/
The pics are indexed so you can search by plant family or species name. No need to spend a day or two to see all of of them if you are just interested in a particular species or certain plant groups ;).
-
In the mean time I was figuring out some things and I think this Viola is very similar with Viola Philippii.
We have also seen this species in the past in Chile . To be sure however, I will try to figure out more about this species. What ever, this is a fantastic plant and thank you for posting.
-
hello ger,
fantastic pictures from fantastic plants, any expierience of this violas in culture, greenhouse or outside ????
cheers
chris
-
The discription of this way of cultivation is quite extensive in this forum, maybe a better idea to participate in the Discussion Weekend in Dumfries in September next year, where I will lecture on the culture of the more difficult plants, including the rosulate Viola species. However, some hints I can give if desired.
-
Hello! Sorry for my English. Thanks for yuor information and photos! It is very beautiful plant!
In November 2010, my friend from Russia studied the cacti in Chile and found an interesting Viola. What is this taxon?
Anatoly
Omsk, Siberia
Anatoly, I was in touch with John Watson in Chile about this Viola. He determined this species as the annual Viola Johnstonii, a species which is part of the large Viola volcanica complex. There are three different species growing in the desert area near Antofagasta. Two other species are Viola huesoensis and Viola godoyae.
-
thanks for the info!