Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: fermi de Sousa on January 14, 2010, 06:25:27 AM
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Here are a few pics before 3 days of above 40oC temperatures!
This is a Lilium henryi hybrid I got from fellow forumist Paul R.
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Another one of Paul R's henryi hybrids
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And this is one is from Adrian at Coal Creek Bulb Farm: "X-phi"
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And another of Adrian's, "Pappos Beauty"
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Adrian sold a mix of trumpet seedlings as "Serendipity Mix" and these are some that flowered in the last week,
A nice yellow trumpet,
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And one with a more flared mouth, (this one finished by early January)
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And one with a rather constricted mouth - the closest I'll ever get to a cardiocrinum! ;D
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cheers
fermi
edit by maggi: A reminder to click the pix to enlarge them, Folks
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Fermi Nice with colour now when it is less colourfull outside here in the North (coming from one that is almost as far south in western Europe as possible). Not of I can say that. Hope the lillies survive the heat-spell You have and continue to flower well. Nice to have names/persons to the lillies to associate them with.
All the best
Joakim
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Fermi, wunderful lillies 8)
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The speckled one from coal creek is very nice Fermi.
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The speckled one from coal creek is very nice Fermi.
Thanks, Lesley,
that was the last days of the second flower, the first one open around X'mas:
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Apologies to Paul R :-[ , the first one I attributed to him is actually one I got from CCBF as "Lady Alice"! Paul's was one in this bed that got wiped out by the heat! :'(
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Hopefully the bulb will recover to flower next year. Otherwise I may have to move it to join the others I got from him under the canopy of a small Golden Elm,
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Lesley, you can see "Dave Toole's teucrium" colonising this area!
cheers
fermi
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G'day fermides, sorry your henryi bulbs from me did poorly for you. Even though they were all gifts, you at least want them to see a season out ;D
Perhaps you need to grow one of my 4N trumpets for a bit of shade?
Regards Paul R
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G'day all--here are some of my henryi hybrids flowering now.
Regards Paul R
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And a few species-- With some of them, I had to take the pollen off very early to ripen inside, otherwise with the +40c there would be nothing left.
Langkonguense
Wardii
Regards Paul R
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Hi Paul R,some great lilies there Paul especially the 4N trumpets,what are you feeding them as they look huge and so many flowers.bye Ray
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Wow, what a superb lot of pictures and great to see all the variations, do the all flower in Jan or how early do some start to flower?, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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A few photos taken at yesterday's Lilium Show of our local Ferny Creek Horticultural Soc.
Despite the recent heatwave and hailstorms we experienced here most blooms were of a very high standard - only disappointment for me was that not more species were shown .
so the last photo is of Lilium chalcedonicum in my garden , flowering happily during the recent extreme heat .
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The Show hall looks delightful with those fine exhibits. The hybrids do give a bright display, that's for sure, but it's hard to beat a simple species.
Amazing that so much has come through your weather unscathed, or seemingly so, going by the pictures, Otto.
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It's great to see you with us again Otto. I hope the illness is receding quickly and you'll be back to your bright and floral self.
The lily display looks wonderful, but, yes, I prefer species too.
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Hi Paul R,some great lilies there Paul especially the 4N trumpets,what are you feeding them as they look huge and so many flowers.bye Ray
G'day Ray--glad you like some of my lilies.Now as far as my current feeding method goes, I will have to begin with my mulch. After last years Black Saturdays' 46C/48C with howling hot northerly winds, my compost of pine fines ended up in New Zealand.So this year I brought in very fibrous recycled mulch and applied it at least 20cm deep, making most of my beds raised about 30cm above the surrounding ground.After the liliums began growth and were about 20cm above ground, I applied a handful of dynamic lifter to the square metre and a few weeks later put an egg cup full of Incitec Pivot N7.8 P3.8 K9.6 to the square metre.I need to adjust the PH, it was averaging 5.9.Throughout the season, I gave two copper sprays, two insecticide sprays and several seasol sprays.My liliums grow in full sun, no shade, but I need to put up shade cloth if I want to continue my oriental and some specie breeding.
I live at low altitude so my conditions are different to those in the dandenong ranges with their free draining volcanic soils and cooler weather.On Dec 9/2010 I did a simple experiment.My local weather station at the Cranbourne Botanic gardens gives areading each half hour, so at 12.30 PM when they gave a reading of 36c (in the shade) it was 34c in the shade here, 44c on my patio and maybe at least 60c ground level, full sun where my liliums grow.Amazing, two clumps of wardii grow and flower in these conditions.One thing of note is that almost all my liliums have been raised from seed by me, so they should be fairly free of virus and vigorous.
Regards Paul R
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Wow, what a superb lot of pictures and great to see all the variations, do the all flower in Jan or how early do some start to flower?, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
G'day Ian, those henryi hybrids of mine start flowering at the end of Dec right through to mid January.Lankongense, pot grown, second week of Jan,Wardii mid Dec through to 2nd week Jan.Trumpets, mid Dec through to mid Jan, OT'S the same except the ryirubes tend to be earlier due to the rubellum genes, auratums right through Jan, speciosums, mid to late January.My martagons flower in October and hopefully I have harvested the seed before the heat waves of Jan and Feb.
Regards Paul R
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This very nice red OT, PR06 8 04, first flowering this year, was produced when I crossed two seedlings that I raised from the two main different colour patterns found in Dr Griesbachs' OTs.
This speciosum Magnificum seedling grew superbly for me in Tasmania, but not so well in the heat and dry humidity of low altitude Melbourne.
Regards Paul R
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G'day fermides, sorry your henryi bulbs from me did poorly for you. Even though they were all gifts, you at least want them to see a season out ;D
Perhaps you need to grow one of my 4N trumpets for a bit of shade?
Regards Paul R
Paul,
your L. henryi hybrid which collapsed was in a bed in full sun, while the ones in a bit of shade seem fine. In a couple of years the little Chinese Pistachio trees will have put on a bit of height and will provide more shade - or maybe we won't get 40oC temperatures from now on ??? ;D ;D
Your trumpets look good - what does "4N" stand for? And that seedling OT looks very dramatic!
cheers
fermi
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After last years Black Saturdays' 46C/48C with howling hot northerly winds, my compost of pine fines ended up in New Zealand.
I wouldn't be surprised at this. Various insects including butterflies, and weed seeds have entered NZ on the strong nor'west winds from Australia, even birds. MAF won't be pleased though about your bark fines Paul. No organic material allowed entry. But not much they can do about it if it comes on the wind instead of by Qantas or Air New Zealand. ;D
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Hi Paul,thanks for the info,and your Magnificum seedling, absolutely beautiful.
bye Ray
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And a few species-- With some of them, I had to take the pollen off very early to ripen inside, otherwise with the +40c there would be nothing left.
Langkonguense
Wardii
Regards Paul R
This is the first lankongense I have seen with the differently recurved tepals. I believed this was typical for papilliferum.
Any comments?
Your hybrids are beautiful indeed.
Cheers
Göte
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Paul,
your seedlings are simply wonderfull. I just started with Lilium last season, but think I lost most of the seedlings to our wet Summer. But I'll get the hang of it......I hope. Just keep sending the encouraging fotos.
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Fermi--4N means it's tetraploid, 2N diploid. N = 12 chromosomes, or one set.Almost all natural occurring lilium species are diploid.The exception may be lancifolium (lilium tigrinum), which is triploid (3N), but is it of hybrid origin?They have found diploid forms now of lancifolium.
Diploids were converted to tetraploids via exposing rapidly dividing lilium cells to various amounts of colchicine or oryzalin for set amount of time.
Lesley--all our good top soil blowing over the ditch may be one reason that you guys can grow better Auratums than us. :) The quarantine people may make us jump through a few hoops, but we are fortunate that both AUS and NZ are free from many pests and diseases that plague the rest of the world.In 2008, though, they somehow lost my NALS seed order-I wasn't a happy little vegemite then :'(
BTW that 60c ground reading the other day was correct as I used two thermometers and both hit the top, so it probably was higher.Some liliums, mainly auratums, burnt off at ground level.
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G'day Göte--I was wondering if someone would pick up on that lankongense! It is a little different, as is one of those wardiis that I posted, but I must tell you that at this time of the year I am flat out pollinating, recording and taking ''field'' photos of all new seedlings.So as you can see, at times they are not framed very well and at other times the pic may be taken when the bloom is very young, as was the case this time. I only germinated my first papilliferum this year, having been given half the seed that Joe Hoell received, so have not flowered that specie, nor have I seen it ''in the flesh'', So I should not comment. There is an article, with good photos, in NALS 2007 Year Book on papilliferum.
Regards Paul R
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G'day Jamie, sorry to hear you had losses with your first batch of seedlings.Do you think it was botrytis related, or not freely draining soil? I start small batches of my best seed in 200mm pots, using sterilized potting mix with 50% added course river sand, probably the same grade that you would have available for cactus?The rest get a bulk made potting soil to which I have the dealer mix in his course river grit--it's very free draining and I loose very few seedlings.
Here is a picture of my orientals germinating in the hothouse when I lived in Tasmania--so they were not exposed to heavy rain, but were well watered in quite high temperatures, and were in very free draining soil.
Regards Paul R
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Paul, WOW, it's great to see this sort of hybridising programme going on, a shame ( from Europes's perspective ) that you are in OZ, lucky for your countrymen though! Have you 'played' with martagon at all?
Cheers
Chris
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Just about at the end of the Liliums for this season,2 of the latest,
Lilium rosthornii
Lilium sargentiae.
bye Ray
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It's great to see all these lilies from down under when everything here is dormant. We've had a much harder winter here than normal so I'm hoping all my lily bulbs in the garden have survived - and all the young seedlings in their pots. Only time will tell - but seeing your photos has me looking forward to the summer already. Thank you for brightening up the winter.
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Just about at the end of the Liliums for this season,2 of the latest,
Lilium rosthornii
Lilium sargentiae.
bye Ray
You have got a really nice form of rosthornii. Mine have tepals that are nearly only half as wide with much less prominent green star in the middle.
I never get any seed on mine. The frost cuts them down immediately after flowering. Do you get seed in time?
Cheers
Göte
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Hi Gote,have not noticed if it has set seed before,but there are pods there now so see if they fill out. Did you want some seed if I get some?bye Ray
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They seem easy from seed.
I have some seedlings coming on from other sources but not yet any flowers on these.
As I wrote, your form is superior so I would certainly appreciate some seeds.
Thank you very much
Chers
Göte
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Back in 1996 we got seed of Lilium 'Askival Ivory' AGS96-3878-GY1 2/1/97 from the AGS and were very excited to get a lily from the Stones. It flowered as L. martagon Album. Ken says the only Askival Ivory he can find on the internet is a Meconopsis. Is there such a lily or was it a simple (or not so simple) labelling error? ???
johnw
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From the greenhouse today, Lilium oxypetalum var. insigne. Apparently this was introduced in 1939 by George Sherriff from Simla, India but I took the easier course and got mine from Susan Band :P
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That's a very nice flower David. Worth every penny, I think :)
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Thank you Luit.
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Back in 1996 we got seed of Lilium 'Askival Ivory' AGS96-3878-GY1 2/1/97 from the AGS and were very excited to get a lily from the Stones. It flowered as L. martagon Album. Ken says the only Askival Ivory he can find on the internet is a Meconopsis. Is there such a lily or was it a simple (or not so simple) labelling error?
The closest name I can think of would be L. martagon 'Inshriach Ivory' (creamy white with a pale green eye) and registered in '77, so probably just a momentary confusion when labelling the seed.
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Thanks Rob, you may well have solved this long-standing mystery.
Thanks
johnw
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Here some Lilium columbianum RGB
collected in British Columbia
Roland
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Here some Lilium columbianum RGB
collected in British Columbia
Roland
A very nice colour. What about the leaves? are they all scattered or are there (false) whorls lower down?
Cheers
Göte
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Hello Göte
Here the pictures from the leaves
from some plants I collected
I love the double whorled one
Roland
I deleted this ones see next item
thanks Maggi
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Sorry pictures turned
is there a trick for turning them after posting
Roland
Answer from Göte
A very nice colour. What about the leaves? are they all scattered or are there (false) whorls lower down?
Cheers
Göte
This is a taxonomic question. There has been (is) some confusion over how to group the different Lilium species. The Americans seem to be a group entirely apart. All (but one and that only sometimes) have leaves in whorls (which really are compressed spirals). Your first picture did not show any so I wondered. Another American trait is that the axis of the bulb is to larger or lesser extent horisontal - sometimes stoloniferous like canadense sometimes just shortly "turned sideways" as in superbum. All Eurasian (I have seen) have a bulb axis that is perfectly vertical.
Cheers
Göte
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Sorry pictures turned
is there a trick for turning them after posting
Roland
No way other than to remove and turn then re-load, Roland.
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Lilium columbianum RGB
collected in British Columbia
this one we call Lilium columbianum Joker
for the funny shape
Roland
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I'm really glad + proud today for my first flowers of self growing Lilium ;D ;D ;D
Lilium spec ( seeds collect in the mountains of Corsica in fall 2004 ) ....I dont know the exact name -
maybe I think it is similar like L.bulbiferum...
I have searched in books about the flora of Corsica ....but nothing ! I suppose this plants are
quiet rare ...we found only this small population on a altitude of 1200 m
If anybody knows the exactly name I'm grateful !
Lililium pyrenaicum yellow flowering form
I have received this seeds before many year from friends from England
Enjoy
Hans 8)
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Hello Hans
It is Lilium bulbiferum
does it have bulblets ??
I don't think so which means ssp.croceum
Roland
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From the greenhouse today, Lilium oxypetalum var. insigne. Apparently this was introduced in 1939 by George Sherriff from Simla, India but I took the easier course and got mine from Susan Band :P
David - I repotted some of mine this year and the flower colour is perfectly wretched this year, all blotchy. Have others seen this?
In flower here L. pyrenaicum and L. macklinae.
johnw
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Roland :
it has no bulbils
I know L.bulbiferum from Mt.Baldo + Lago di Garda + Ht. Alpes ....they have bulbils
This plants from Corsica are only 40 cm high .....very different from other L.bulbiferum
Here is a pic from L.bulbiferum near Col de Lautaret
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Hans,
very lovely L. bulbiferum.
I have L. bulbiferum ssp. croceum. My plants are ~30cm tall now and are raised from bulbils receipt autuum 2008 from a good Dutch friend. ;)
They have not flowered yet but remarkable produce little bulbils already now. :)
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Armin
This is ssp. bulbiferum
ssp croceum does not make bulbils
Roland
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Armin I never had L. bulbiferum ssp. croceum ::) ::) ;)
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Hello Hans
In the flora of Italy you can see
only L. bulbiferum ssp. croceum exist in Corsica
Roland
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Gents,
uups ??? :-[ - sorry , I mixed it up. L. bulbiferum, of course.
Maybe my head got too much sunshine at +29°C today while sitting on my terrace at coffee and cake and posting the images? ;D
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Armi
It is Lilium bulbiferum ssp. bulbiferum
Roland
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Roland,
thank you for being precise.
It seems to be not my day ::) ;D
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Hello Hans
In the flora of Italy you can see
only L. bulbiferum ssp. croceum exist in Corsica
Roland
Roland
:o I was always thinking that Corsica is a part of France ::) ::) ::)
But - Thank you .....I think that my plants are L. bulbiferum ssp. croceum ...special if you say they have not bulbils
Hans :D
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Hans
Corsica was a long time from Italy
lots of data is used for the flora
also a lot of the Maltese plants
But if you have some seeds or young bulbs
you can make me happy special with the exact location
of your finding
I know they grow near the Fango river
but every new location is welcome
Roland
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Roland ,
yes I know the history of Corsica ...I was only joking !
I have also found L.bulbiferum in Italy ( Gargano Mts. ) ...in fall 2002
No problem - if i will have in next year seeds of this plants from Corsica I will send you something
For the location I will send you a PM ;)
Hans
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Hans
I have also found L.bulbiferum in Italy ( Gargano Mts. ) ...in fall 2002
was this ssp. bulbiferum or ssp.croceum
Roland
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Armin
sometimes it is good to be exact ;D
a good example is Gladiolus communis ssp. byzantinus
and Gladiolus italicus
first it was Gladiolus byzantinus ssp. byzantinus
and Gladiolus byzantinus ssp. italicus
in the trade they made it less complicate
just Gladiolus byzantinus
at the end if you buy in the trade Gladiolus byzantinus ssp. byzantinus
you almost sure get Gladiolus italicus :( :(
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This one's I bought as Lilium brownii
I am not sure of the name
Roland
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Roland I posted a similar one last year and it was generally agreed it was brownii
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Thanks Tony
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The color is bit off from other Ariadne I have seen.
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Lilium lancifolium
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Lilium regale
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I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find the answer on here but .... I dont know where this Lily came from except it's been stuck in a tiny pot, 1L, for years and it has produced a flower. It opened today.
I'm sure someone knows which it is
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Hello Mark
For me it looks like Lilium bulbiferum ssp. croceum
does it have bulblets ?
Then it can be Lilium bulbiferum ssp. bulbiferum
but I don't see them
Roland
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Lilium umbellatum in flower today
just 35 cm high
Roland
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How do you differentiate between L. bulbiferum and L. umbellatum? The flowers seem different, with the former having different sized sepals to petals, but is there more? Here is what i have a s the later, but I have no idea if this is correct.
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Hello Jamie
Some people say that a synonym of Lilium umbellatum
is Lilium philadelphicum L. var. andinum (Nutt.) Ker Gawl.
wood lily
native to America
see http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=LIPHA
Lilium bulbiferum is an European species
Roland
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Roland,
the question is more, when they are growing side by side, how does one differentiate them. I have, I believe both, along with croceum, but they were in the garden as I took it over. The only big difference is the bloom time. What I think is the American lily blooms about 2-3 weeks before.
Two I thought I had long lost.
L. hansonii
L. martagon
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Its easy
I give you later in the year a L.umbellatum
And if you have a true L. bulbiferum ssp. croceum
we can swap
I am still looking for true croceum
Roland
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Lilium tsingtauense
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I am out in the country at the moment so I do not have my boks available but all American lilies have bulbs that grow sideways in one way or the other. Eurasian lilies have vertical axis of the bulb and are symmetrical around that axis. All Americans but one have at least some leaves in whorls except philadelphicum. there has been some discussions whether hat one is not really a garden escapee of Eurasian origin.
There are many hybrids that look like bulbiferum. 'Harmony' is an old mid-century hybrid that has those wide tepals.
I think I remember that umbellatum is name that has been used (incorrectly?) many years ago for upright hybrids of Dutch origin but I am not sure.
Göte
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I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find the answer on here but .... I dont know where this Lily came from except it's been stuck in a tiny pot, 1L, for years and it has produced a flower. It opened today.
I'm sure someone knows which it is
Is it necessarily a species Mark? it reminds me of the first lilly I ever grew when I was a child, It was a cultivar called "Enchantment"
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I am out in the country at the moment so I do not have my boks available but all American lilies have bulbs that grow sideways in one way or the other. Eurasian lilies have vertical axis of the bulb and are symmetrical around that axis. All Americans but one have at least some leaves in whorls except philadelphicum. there has been some discussions whether hat one is not really a garden escapee of Eurasian origin.
There are many hybrids that look like bulbiferum. 'Harmony' is an old mid-century hybrid that has those wide tepals.
I think I remember that umbellatum is name that has been used (incorrectly?) many years ago for upright hybrids of Dutch origin but I am not sure.
Göte
Göte,
thanks for the info. I have been spurred to check on other possible IDs for these lilies left to me in the garden. I have moved the one in the foto and it is a centric bulb that quickly regenerates from damage, as I accidentally split it with the shovel and it bloomed the next year despite the damage. I suspect it is an old dutch hybrid, not a species. This may well be the case with the others in the garden as well. They were planted in the 1950's, I believe. I found a shot of 'Orange Triumph', that looks a great deal like my lily, but there were apparently many similar lilies produced in the 30's and '40s involving bulbiferum croceum.
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2 Lilium martagon forms from seed:
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Beautiful, everyone. Beautiful! :D
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I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find the answer on here but .... I dont know where this Lily came from except it's been stuck in a tiny pot, 1L, for years and it has produced a flower. It opened today.
I'm sure someone knows which it is
Is it necessarily a species Mark? it reminds me of the first lilly I ever grew when I was a child, It was a cultivar called "Enchantment"
Enchantmet was probably the most widely grown since it became a cut flower variety. However, Enchantment is more reddish and has less wide tepals. Of those I have grown, 'Harmony seems the most likely bet. I have not grown Orange Triumph so I have no idea if it can be that one.
Göte
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For lilium umbellatum Orange Triumph
see
http://ssls.tussana.com/OLD%20LILY%20HYBRIDS%20AND%20SPECIES1.html
Roland
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Roland,
thanks for that very interesting link. I am now more confused than ever. One thing I noticed is, most of the cultivars listed are only 2-3 feet tall (under 1m), while my plant is consistently 1.6m or 5ft.
I, also, collected some bulbils from an unknown lily in a relatives garden 2 years ago. I will need another 2 years to see bloom, but suspect they are another hybrid from this group. Although I am hardly a collector of heirloom hybrids, I do love a puzzle, which is why I decided to bring back the bulbils at all.
jamie
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Roland,
thanks for that very interesting link. I am now more confused than ever. One thing I noticed is, most of the cultivars listed are only 2-3 feet tall (under 1m), while my plant is consistently 1.6m or 5ft.
I, also, collected some bulbils from an unknown lily in a relatives garden 2 years ago. I will need another 2 years to see bloom, but suspect they are another hybrid from this group. Although I am hardly a collector of heirloom hybrids, I do love a puzzle, which is why I decided to bring back the bulbils at all.
jamie
I am pleased that you are confused ;D ;D I think we all are.
Lilium dauricum is tall - at least in my garden - and might fit the picture.
When I am back in town I will try to remember to post a picture. It should be described in Flora of China
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027711
By the way: I see the upright habitus as an adaption to growing in grassland. The umbel positions the flower in a way that is visible to flying pollinators without being so tall as to be damaged by wind. The arrangement of the tepals also protects the anthers from being hit by adjacent plants. The Genus Lilium has two bracts per pedicel and you will find that the number of "leaves" in the top whorl is about twice the number of flowers. The whorl is thus the result of a stop in the vertical growth of the stem. The "whorls" in the stems of some other lilies are also formed by a temporary stop to growth. Sometimes it is possible to see the underlying spiral.
Cheers
Göte
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Yesterday I went out in the garden and measured my tallest Lilium dauricum. - 145cm.
Two centuries ago Ker Gawler by mistake renamed Lilium lancifolium L. tigrinum. He also - believing a certain lily came from America named it L. pennsylvanicum. A few years later he became aware of its origin and renamed it L. dauricum - a name that has often been maltreated to davuricum etc.
At the same time Pursh named the lily we now call philadelphicum v. andinum: L umbellatum. This is a typical American Lily with a bulb of the canadense type. I.e. the bulb forms an annual horizontal stolon that makes a new bulb adjacent to the old but in this case the stolon is shorter than in canadense. This is a rare lily in cultivation. The tepals are very narrow at the base quite unlike the ones in the pictures.
The asiatic upright lilies were the firsty to be hybridized and in the first half of the 20th century there were a number of hybrids some where called xthunbergii, xelegans and xumbellatum. Some of these may still be around. A book from 1927 complains that nearly all stock of L. dauricum was called 'umbellatum' in the trade. At the middle of the century J. deGraff of Oregon Bulb farmes launched a series of "Mid Century Hybrids" They came in various types some of them upright. I have personally grown 'Harmony', 'Destiny', 'Enchantment' and perhaps some more. (The voles took them all :'( ). All these were 60-100 cm - not higher.
Floras tell us that L. dauricum grows less than a meter - perhaps up to 120cm - but it has been reported that there are places in Siberia where forms of dauricum grow to 2m. This reflects my hobby horse that botanical description after wild specimen often are misleading since they are of starved plants. In a garden situation they grow taller and have a higher number of flowers. (I also measured a L. bulbiferum v.bulbiferum: 125 cm!).
Notes to the pics:
bulbiferum is very similar to dauricum but there is no wooliness and there are brown bulbils. The papillar arrangement in the nectar furrow is also slightly different.
dauricum. This is a young plant but shows the general look. the buds are fairly woolly.
The rest are old scans of old slides. In the real world Enchantment is more red and Tabasco darker.
Cheers
Göte
PS if anyone still grows 'Destiny' or 'Harmony' I would be interested in a swap.
PPS
A check on google for pictures of Enchantment mostly shows lilies that are NOT Enchantment. The reason is probably that the trade tends to sell anything that has a slight resemblance to the real thing under an established name. All the mid-century hybrids are from an era when colour photography was not as common as today.
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Could anybody tell me what this Lilium from China could be? Could it be L. duchartrei? Plant is about 40 cm, not erect but hugging the ground so probably growing on slopes in China. Flower is about 5 cm diameter, single, leaves are alternate, broad elliptic, very fragrant in the warm weather we have right now in Holland.
Thanx for any suggestions.
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Could anybody tell me what this Lilium from China could be? Could it be L. duchartrei? Plant is about 40 cm, not erect but hugging the ground so probably growing on slopes in China. Flower is about 5 cm diameter, single, leaves are alternate, broad elliptic, very fragrant in the warm weather we have right now in Holland.
Thanx for any suggestions.
It is probably duchartreii and it is probably huggiong the ground for some peculiar reason that has to do with the year, your climate or where it is grown. A picture showing the whole plant would be helpful.
Göte
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It seems to form stem roots so I probably should have planted it in a deeper pot but I doubt it would have made a difference. Most Lilium species that need staking and I have seen in the wild are ones that grow on slopes or find support in short shrubs and this seems to be one of them. I have other Lilium imports that are not yet flowering but have a much bigger central stem and stay upright without a problem. L. nepalense for instance I have seen in the wild and you can't find a single one that stays erect on its own. Although the leaves of this white one are smaller, the general habit is the same. I haven't got time in the next few days to make a picture of the plant so this magnification of an overview picture is all I have.
PS. Never mind all the ziplocks in the picture, they are just to prevent too much evaporation from the pots during absence. It looks unsightly but works well and is the only way I can go on fieldtrips to Asia without a babysit for my Arisaema that might come up while I am gone....;-)
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a couple of Lilium martagon,the first from the garden centre and the second from seed collected 1999 on Mt Falackro in northern Greece is ssp cattaniae
Lilium martagon
Lilium martagon ssp cattaniae
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Very nice martagon cattaniae, Tony - very dark, certainly darker than any of mine.
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Can anyone ID this lily?
Flowering for the first time but I do not know where or when I obtained it, it has quietly appeared amongst my other lily species.
It is approx.60cm tall, strongly & curiously scented & a small trumpet shape. The buds & upper stem are hairy.
Lilium medeoloides flowering for the first time - from AGS seed sown in 2003.
Pete.
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A very showy Lilium martagon at a roadside along my one of my jogging tracks... Near Schwäbisch Hall, about 80k east of Stuttgart.
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@Pete Clarke, your unknown lily could be Lilium kesselringianum (a relation of L monadelphum, from the Caucasus)
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Lilium xanthellum
Lilium regale
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Hello Giles
Your Lilium xanthellum is amazing
Roland
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Roland,
Thankyou.
Unfortunately 'in real life' it is a bit disappointing: the plant is about 1.5 metres tall, yet the flower is only about 2 cm in diameter.
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Giles
I hardly can believe this
You mean inches
Roland
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the flower is only about 2 cm in diameter.
I'm surprised by this, too.... is that from curl to curl of the petals or from tip to tip? Seem very little......
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Two in flower here. Lilium grayi and Lilium hansonii with very thick petals.
johnw
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Roland,
Thankyou.
Unfortunately 'in real life' it is a bit disappointing: the plant is about 1.5 metres tall, yet the flower is only about 2 cm in diameter.
Giles I have had a similar experience,mine has now disappeared.
John that L. grayi is fabulous
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- I have to agree - L.grayi is wonderful.
Here is the L.xanthellum against my garden shed, in a 6 inch pot. It's been in full sun, so can't be etiolated.
Not much flower power per foot of plant.
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Not much flower power per foot of plant.
Oooh, errrrr! Fancy that... perhaps it wants feeding up a bit? It looks like an anorexic supermodel, poor thing.
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John that L. grayi is fabulous
If only I could capture the true red colour. ??? It seems my camera only does erdbeertorte correctly.
johnw
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Hello John
Just send me a bulb
and I make a good picture for you ;D ;D
Roland
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If only I could capture the true red colour. ??? It seems my camera only does erdbeertorte correctly.
johnw
Now what is so bad about that? Makes me wanna go to the bakery.... ;D
But my Canon probably does an equally bad job at that red as your Nikon, your picture still gives a good idea. And every computerscreen has its own characteristics and gives colours their own little twist so it could look the incorrect red at your end but the good one at my end... Some colours are horrible to photograph anyway true to nature.
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@Pete Clarke, your unknown lily could be Lilium kesselringianum (a relation of L monadelphum, from the Caucasus)
When I saw the photo and read the comment about the scent, I immediately thought it looked and sounded like a white version of monadelphum /szovitsianum - especially with that pollen colour.
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Yippee, I finally have L. tsingtauense flowering here, just as the various martagons start, so I can start crossing them - something I've always wanted to try in the hope of ending up with orange martagons galore :)
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Hello Martin
Am I missing a nice picture 8)
or you just want to keep it for yourself ;D ;D
Roland
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Hello Martin
Am I missing a nice picture 8)
or you just want to keep it for yourself ;D ;D
Roland
I'll try to take one today :)
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Here are the first Lilium formosanum Pricei
in flower
This is a second year seedling 50 cm high
and almost open and maybe I post it tomorrow
Lilium formosanum almost white form
Roland
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It seems to form stem roots so I probably should have planted it in a deeper pot but I doubt it would have made a difference. Most Lilium species that need staking and I have seen in the wild are ones that grow on slopes or find support in short shrubs and this seems to be one of them. I have other Lilium imports that are not yet flowering but have a much bigger central stem and stay upright without a problem. L. nepalense for instance I have seen in the wild and you can't find a single one that stays erect on its own. Although the leaves of this white one are smaller, the general habit is the same. I haven't got time in the next few days to make a picture of the plant so this magnification of an overview picture is all I have.
Lilium nepalense is quite upright when grown in gardens - excepting perhaps L. primulinum by some regarded as a form of nepalense. Lilies to some extent adapt their way of growing to the circumstances.
I think that you have got duchartreii but you should not keep it in a pot since some forms like to wander around quite a lot. The creeping habit of your plant is probably the result of pot culture. Duchartreii is quite hardy and survives even inmid-Sweden.
Cheers
Göte
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@Pete Clarke, your unknown lily could be Lilium kesselringianum (a relation of L monadelphum, from the Caucasus)
That is very unlikely since kesselringianum is yellow please see http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=120&taxon_id=242442569
To me it looks like a typical trumpet lily of the regale/formosanum/brownii etc type. However it is difficult to say for sure. We really need several pictures in order to identify a lily. General habitus, flower from the front and from the side - if possible also bulb.
Göte
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Lilium nepalense is quite upright when grown in gardens - excepting perhaps L. primulinum by some regarded as a form of nepalense. Lilies to some extent adapt their way of growing to the circumstances.
I think that you have got duchartreii but you should not keep it in a pot since some forms like to wander around quite a lot. The creeping habit of your plant is probably the result of pot culture. Duchartreii is quite hardy and survives even inmid-Sweden.
Cheers
Göte
Hi Göte, well....., my Lilium nepalense in the garden are not well behaved and flop all around the place, similar to how I have seen them in the wild. Down at the slopes where they grow looking up you can see right in the trumpets and most grow almost horizontally. But living in a flat country (Holland), there is always wind around here so only the strongest plants stay upright.... :(
The reason I grow this duchartrei in a pot for now is simply because it is new in my collection and not knowing which species it is and how it should be grown the first season I always plant my new stuff in pots. Now I know what it is it will be planted in the garden although a friend of mine living near Glasgow told me that planted in the open L. duchartrei produces masses of very healthy shoots with them, wanders all over the place but is shy flowering. Let's see what it does, I like the clear white with the spots so I am happy with it and can't wait for the other Chinese Lilium to flower and see what they are. I only hope none are orange species, as a Dutchman during the World Cup I shouldn't say it but I dislike that colour... :D
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It is true that some forms wander around and are very shy flowering. I am not quite sure what makes them flower. Some of mine flower quite nicely. At the moment I can only give the advice that as soon as they have proliferated they should be tried in various locations.
Perhaps our president can give some advice.
Nepalense is very variable and although I am a lumper in Trilliums, I want to split nepalense in nepalense, primulinum, ochraceheum and burmanicum - at least ;D. The Nepalense that has been with us for more than half a century with funnel shaped flowers has always been straight and sturdy when I have seen it (which is in gardens). ochraceum is a little weaker but not so much as you describe. Primulinum is fairly weak. These observations are from my garden and not necessarioy true in other places.
Cheers
Göte
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- I have to agree - L.grayi is wonderful.
Here is the L.xanthellum against my garden shed, in a 6 inch pot. It's been in full sun, so can't be etiolated.
Not much flower power per foot of plant.
Oh well, print out the first picture of it, suitably cropped then enlarged and pin it on the wall above your computer. That way it will always be a well proportioned beauty :D
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At last my Lilies have started.
I have found that my dauricums (which are not all the same clone) tend to have reflexed tepals. I do not know wether all dauricums do this.
I still have some of the original old xMarhan which I acquired in the early sixties. It is as tough as its parents.
The followin two came from the same seed envelope stating szowitzianum. Unlike most illustrations this one has an umbel.
Cheers
Göte
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Lilium canadense
Lilium 'Nicotine'
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Giles,
what a great looking L. canadense! Mine never bloomed and finally disappeared, but I plan to try again, especially after seeing this one. Wonderful spotting. Nice to see a shot of Nicotine, as mine was topped-off by slugs this season! It can be maddening. >:( :'(
thanks for sharing.
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I agree with Jamie
very nice L. canadense
best I have ever seen
hopefully it makes a lot of seeds
Roland
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Giles,
what a great looking L. canadense! Mine never bloomed and finally disappeared, but I plan to try again, especially after seeing this one. Wonderful spotting. Nice to see a shot of Nicotine, as mine was topped-off by slugs this season! It can be maddening. >:( :'(
thanks for sharing.
Canadense is not difficult in my place but it needs moisture. It has even seeded itself on my pond border. Not in the water of course but perhaps 10 cm above the water table. Since it is truly stoloniferous I would advice against pot culture.
Cheers
Göte
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Jamie/Roland,
Thankyou for the compliments.
Both lilies were bought as bulbs.
The L.canadense from Bloms, the Nicotine from Hyde and Son.
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So even slugs can have an addiction to nicotine? ;D
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Lilium 'Guinea Gold'
Lilium bakerianum
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As requested by Roland, a couple of quick snaps of L. tsingtauense flowering here for the first time. The flowers were pollinated with pollen from an early white martagon and the petals dropped within a couple of days so I'm hoping the cross has worked. Have saved the tsingtauense pollen to use on other white and pale pink martagons. Hoping for orange and orange-red martagon hybrids in a few years time.
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I thought you forgot me ;D ;D ;D
Roland
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L. bakerianum is a beauty. I love that green spotted look.
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@Pete Clarke, your unknown lily could be Lilium kesselringianum (a relation of L monadelphum, from the Caucasus)
That is very unlikely since kesselringianum is yellow please see http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=120&taxon_id=242442569
To me it looks like a typical trumpet lily of the regale/formosanum/brownii etc type. However it is difficult to say for sure. We really need several pictures in order to identify a lily. General habitus, flower from the front and from the side - if possible also bulb.
Göte
Hi Göte. I finally got some more pics.
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A few hybrids out today.
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They are very lovely, especially the pinks, so elegant.
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As promised Lilium formosanum White Form :)
outsh almost white with a little pink fade
but I don't want to see that tiny stripe 8)
Roland
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A year back I was pestering people about what colour the polen of l. formosanum was. Interesting that in your picture it is brown. I've got plants with both brown and yellow.
The background to the pictures looks interesting ;-)
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Re Reply #113 on: June 29, 2010, 02:53:56 PM page 8 of this thread:
Giles,
what a great looking L. canadense! Mine never bloomed and finally disappeared, but I plan to try again, especially after seeing this one. Wonderful spotting. Nice to see a shot of Nicotine, as mine was topped-off by slugs this season! It can be maddening.
thanks for sharing.
Canadense is not difficult in my place but it needs moisture. It has even seeded itself on my pond border. Not in the water of course but perhaps 10 cm above the water table. Since it is truly stoloniferous I would advice against pot culture.
Cheers
Göte
One of Rod Barwick's (of daffodil fame) party tricks when hosting meetings is to bring out pot-grown canadense. I suspect his whole stock is grown this way, since I've seen a dozen or so pots ranged on a table top.
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Lilium lankongense
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Here some liliums I bought as
Lilium amoenum var L-29 from Chen Yi
I don't know if the name is correct
but it is a nice one
Roland
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A nice l . martagon
I bought this one under the name
Lilium martagon albiflorum
I thought it would be white but surprise
a beautiful crčme one with almost to many flowers
Roland
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Roland,
These are the relevant bits from The Flora of China:
Thes is also a photograph on the North American Liliy Society website.
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flower looks very similar for me
the description says bulbs 22 cm
looks for me the size of a rape
thanks
Roland
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Re Reply #113 on: June 29, 2010, 02:53:56 PM page 8 of this thread:
Giles ,
your L. canadense is the most striking form I have seen .I only grow the the yellow and red form , both with brown spots . They are easy in the garden with some moisture , less so in pots .
Otto.
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Here some liliums I bought as
Lilium amoenum var L-29 from Chen Yi
I don't know if the name is correct
but it is a nice one
Roland
I think the emphasize is on "var". Amoenum is rather like a Campanula persicifolia in the shape but this one which is more funnel shaped may also be amoenum.
Göte
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Here are some of the lilies that have flowered for me in the last 4-5 weeks. I've split them into 2 posts as I think they are maybe too big to include all together and I don't know how to make them smaller! Lilium dalhansonii is one of my favourites and is a cross between L hansonii and L martagon dalmaticum which I think is the same as var Cattaniae. L dalhansonii was a gift from Ian the Christie kind who is as generous with his plants as with his information. So many thanks Ian. No doubt you'll be relieved to see that I don't manage to kill everything!
Lilium dalhansonii
Lilium dalhansonii
Lilium hansonii
Lilium martagon var Cattaniae
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Here is the next batch.
Lilium mackliniae dark pink form
Lilium mackliniae dark pink form
Lilium grayi
Lilium grayi
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The first Lilium
canadense michiganense came out yesterday.
johnw
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Here is the next batch.
Lilium mackliniae dark pink form
Lilium mackliniae dark pink form
Lilium grayi
Lilium grayi
Liz
A distinguished posting I must say and what a smashing dark pink macklinae. Seed grown?
johnw
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The lilies are all beautiful Liz. Obviously a great season for lilies in the northern hemisphere. :D
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Obviously a great season for lilies in the northern hemisphere
Yes, I was thinking the same thing myself!
Super lilies, Liz, though when you have any time to garden I cannot imagine.... all the more reason to thank you for your photos. 8)
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The first Lilium canadense came out yesterday.
johnw
How did you determine the name? This is the first canadense I have seen with fully reflexed tepals. Compare previous postings of canadense which show the normal form.
Cheers
Göte
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Lilium lijiongense from Susan Band
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lilium davidii willmottiae from SRGC seed ex 2008/2009, another lily that can be grown in a year.
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John: I got 3 bulbs of the pink Lilium mackliniae as a present from a friend - lucky me. Seed heads are forming as I write so I'll hope to let you have some seed later in the year. The SRGC Seed Exchange has also had seed of this lily for the past 3 to 4 years so will probably have more next year - I've got some seedlings growing on as well.
I'll try to find out who collected the original seed - or maybe Maggi knows - and will post the info if I'm successful.
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Dear friends, hello! Is glad to show new photos. With the great pleasure I look at your lilies. All is very fine!! Very much!
Martagon seedling:
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Hello Elena
nice pictures
but do you have some names with them
Looks like some martagons
Roland
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Roland, sorry! In Moscow very hot weather. The head works poorly. :) Сorrected.
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John: I got 3 bulbs of the pink Lilium mackliniae as a present from a friend - lucky me. Seed heads are forming as I write so I'll hope to let you have some seed later in the year. The SRGC Seed Exchange has also had seed of this lily for the past 3 to 4 years so will probably have more next year - I've got some seedlings growing on as well.
I'll try to find out who collected the original seed - or maybe Maggi knows - and will post the info if I'm successful.
Most likely the original plants came from the Glendoick/Cox nursery who introduced this form from a mountain in Arunachal Pradesh in NE India. I got some bulbs this year via a friend in Scotland who bought them directly from Glendoick nursery but unfortunately they turned out to be the pale pink form and I think someone else on the forum had the same experience so either they made a mistake with their stock at the nursery or the offspring they currently sell is not pure anymore. I would love to have grown the dark form you have though....
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Lilium regale, seed raised.
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Well done David!
ISTR those were seed from Maggi.
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John: I got 3 bulbs of the pink Lilium mackliniae as a present from a friend - lucky me. Seed heads are forming as I write so I'll hope to let you have some seed later in the year. The SRGC Seed Exchange has also had seed of this lily for the past 3 to 4 years so will probably have more next year - I've got some seedlings growing on as well.
I'll try to find out who collected the original seed - or maybe Maggi knows - and will post the info if I'm successful.
Liz - We got seeds from Finn Haugli and he got them from Gelndoick as well. His were dark. They haven't sprouted yet but fingers are crossed. Did Ken Cox not introduce it?
johnw
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How did you determine the name?
Cheers
Göte
[/quote]
By relying on my memory instead of the label which reads michiganense. :o
johnw
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John: I got 3 bulbs of the pink Lilium mackliniae as a present from a friend - lucky me. Seed heads are forming as I write so I'll hope to let you have some seed later in the year. The SRGC Seed Exchange has also had seed of this lily for the past 3 to 4 years so will probably have more next year - I've got some seedlings growing on as well.
I'll try to find out who collected the original seed - or maybe Maggi knows - and will post the info if I'm successful.
Liz - We got seeds from Finn Haugli and he got them from Gelndoick as well. His were dark. They haven't sprouted yet but fingers are crossed. Did Ken Cox not introduce it?
johnw
Yes, John , as Pascal said on the previous page, Glendoick are selling these bulbs. It was Ken who introduced it I believe, though I'm not sure that Henry and Margaret Taylor did not collect seed of such a plant, also.
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The bulbs I got were from the same friend, Pascal - and they came from Glendoick. But I wasn't sure whether the Coxes collected the original seed or whether it was Margaret and Henry Taylor. The seed in the Seed Exchange in 2006/7 was definitely donated by Margaret and Henry. I'll try to find out more.
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The bulbs I got were from the same friend, Pascal - and they came from Glendoick. But I wasn't sure whether the Coxes collected the original seed or whether it was Margaret and Henry Taylor. The seed in the Seed Exchange in 2006/7 was definitely donated by Margaret and Henry. I'll try to find out more.
I think Glendoick was the first introduction, (they describe it as "deep purple-pink") but Henry and Margaret have been also distributing seed through the exchanges (SRGC and AGS) from plants labelled "dark pink" or "dark rose" "ex Nagaland" - whether that is the same as the Coxes, or whether their own, I don't know. Also Henry and Margaret have crossed the dark pink with the normal white form and they are calling this "Tantallon hybrid" and seed under this name has also been distributed through the exchanges.
Just wish I could grow any of them :'(
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According to the Cox website the introduction was from Mt Javpo which is, in contrast to what I said, not Arunachal Pradesh but indeed lies in Nagaland close to the border with Burma. Sorry, my bad.... :-[
Were Margaret and Henry Taylor on that same trip as Ken Cox or did they go independently?
I grow some other plants from that area send by a friend from India which are very unusual so the state of Nagaland is already high on my list of places to do fieldwork because no doubt many more interesting species and forms are waiting to be found. Unfortunately the Indians make it very hard to travel in some of these areas, even more so for the areas Kingdon Ward has visited close to the Chinese border. For years now I have been trying to go to the Mishmi Hills in Arunachal Pradesh to see Arisaema rhizomatum in the field but even the director of the Botanical Survey of India couldn't help me in my battle with the Indian burocrats for permits... :'(
So I am glad at least some of the more unusual NE Indian plants have already found there way into cultivation (although in this case not to my collection yet...sob..)
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These were all moved two years ao and are flowering now for the first time in their new positions;
L.tigrinum
L.pardalinum
L.pardalinum ssp. shastense
L.regale ( a liitle lost in the vegetation compared to David's fine specimen )
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Can someone identify this orange lily for me please.
I bought it from a respectable lily supplier as 'Enchantment' but it turned out not to be anything like the 'Enchantment' I used to grow. This doesn't produce bulbils in the leaf axils which I'm sure 'Enchantment' does.
Graham
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Can someone identify this orange lily for me please.
I bought it from a respectable lily supplier as 'Enchantment' but it turned out not to be anything like the 'Enchantment' I used to grow. This doesn't produce bulbils in the leaf axils which I'm sure 'Enchantment' does.
Graham
Hi Graham,
it looks a bit like Asiatic Lilium "Baja" or one of the other "brush-mark" types,
cheers
fermi
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Hi Graham,looks like Lilium Loreto to me bye Ray
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My immediate reaction is 'Loreto', to the last brushmarked lilium. But whether there are others overseas similar I don't know. If I saw it here in Aus, I'd think it was Loreto anyway. I've not seen Baja, so obviously there are other similar ones here in Aus now too. 8)
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To give an idea where you have to look for
Enchantment is one of the cheapest lilies
if the wholesaler is replacing it because he is out of stock
than it will be one of the cheapest var
but there are thousands of LA types
so probably impossible to find out
the sure exact name
but send me a pm with a large picture
and I will ask around for you
Roland
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Roland,
What makes you think it is an LA rather than an Asiatic type?
-
Sorry Paul
typing mistake is Asiatic
It's to hot here 34°C
Roland
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No problem, Roland. Just checking.
-5 here overnight a lot of nights recently, and top of perhaps 15'C if we're lucky. 34'C seems a LONG way off. ;D
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Well done David!
ISTR those were seed from Maggi.
Sorry David I missed this one. You do have a good memory, yes this is from seed Maggi sent to me when I first joined SRGC and is the only plant I have left from that batch. Must sow some more.
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Sorry David I missed this one. You do have a good memory, yes this is from seed Maggi sent to me when I first joined SRGC and is the only plant I have left from that batch. Must sow some more.
L. Regale produces lots of viable seed, is apomitic, plus offsets, you should be set to have lots more like that one.
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Can someone identify this orange lily for me please.
I bought it from a respectable lily supplier as 'Enchantment' but it turned out not to be anything like the 'Enchantment' I used to grow. This doesn't produce bulbils in the leaf axils which I'm sure 'Enchantment' does.
Graham
Fermi, Ray, Paul, and Roland,
Many thanks for your replies and suggestions. I have Googled both 'Baja' and 'Loreto' and they both look very similar to the one I posted. I realised that it may be difficult to confirm the true identity.
Roland - I will send you PM with a larger picture.
Thanks again everyone.
Graham
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Some more lilies are starting for me now.
Cernuum has rather a martagon colour but is not more than 40 cm. I have necer seen any beetles on it probably because the leaves are so narrow.
This is "my form" of tsingtauense. It is larger than the typical and slightly assymetrical but not as much as distichum. The colour is very pregnant.It hasthe one whorl habitus of "true" tsingtauense.
I got lijiangense under wrong name but I am very happy with it. note the pedicel shape and the black line in each tepal. It is not difficult from seed.
Amabile luteum - a young plant with only two flower.
I moved my martagon cattaniae so there are not many flowers on them either. It is very difficult to take a picture that shows the correct amount of darkness. This is a little on the light side.
A long tinme ago I got seed named 'martagon hybrids' This is one of them.
Cheers
Göte
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I spoke to Margaret and Henry Taylor last night to try to clear up the confusion re the dark pink L mackliniae and here's the story. A New Zealander, Sashel Dayal, gave Peter Cox seed that he'd collected in Nagaland. The Taylors got their seed from Peter on 21 January 2000 and had flowered it in time to put seed into the 2003/4 Seed Exchange. All their plants from then on have been dark pink, Pascal. They also said that their hybrid 'Tantallon' is a very vigorous plant but is a much paler pink (pinker than the original L mackliniae but not as deep as the x Nagaland form). Seed of this hybrid and of the x Nagaland form are often offered in the Club's Seed Exchange.
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Wow, Gote - that martagon hybrid is a lovely combination of colours...very zingy! 8) I'm rushing out now to put some tsingtaunse pollen onto my darkest martagons to try to get something similar (so far I've been pollinating paler martagons with tsingtauense, but your hybrid photo has made me lust after that striking colour combination!
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I spoke to Margaret and Henry Taylor last night to try to clear up the confusion re the dark pink L mackliniae and here's the story. A New Zealander, Sashel Dayal, gave Peter Cox seed that he'd collected in Nagaland. The Taylors got their seed from Peter on 21 January 2000 and had flowered it in time to put seed into the 2003/4 Seed Exchange. All their plants from then on have been dark pink, Pascal. They also said that their hybrid 'Tantallon' is a very vigorous plant but is a much paler pink (pinker than the original L mackliniae but not as deep as the x Nagaland form). Seed of this hybrid and of the x Nagaland form are often offered in the Club's Seed Exchange.
Hi Liz, thanks for clarifying, I already wondered when Cox went to Nagaland because I only knew of their trips to Arunachal which is at the other side of the river valley but this explains it and both sources have the same origin. Might be hard to get that particular seed from the seedex now......, everybody wanting it.... Anyway, will try to order it in the autumn.... ;)
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Hello Maggi
How comes that the pictures from Hakone
are so large or is it my computer
here they are not small as usual
Roland
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They also said that their hybrid 'Tantallon' is a very vigorous plant but is a much paler pink (pinker than the original L mackliniae but not as deep as the x Nagaland form). Seed of this hybrid and of the x Nagaland form are often offered in the Club's Seed Exchange.
Thanks for trying to sort this out, Liz. However, I am still confused as I thought the "Tantallon" hyb WAS the original x Nagaland (which is why it's pale pink!). Are there two different hybrids? (I suppose they are not technically hybrids, just crosses of colour forms within the species).
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It would definitely be interesting to see a picture of the "Tantallon" mackliniae to see how pink it is because the plant from Cox I flowered was pale pink but not whitish pink as I see on most pictures of this species on the internet. Does anybody know the story of the original introduction? Or is there no "one" introduction but several?
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They also said that their hybrid 'Tantallon' is a very vigorous plant but is a much paler pink (pinker than the original L mackliniae but not as deep as the x Nagaland form). Seed of this hybrid and of the x Nagaland form are often offered in the Club's Seed Exchange.
Thanks for trying to sort this out, Liz. However, I am still confused as I thought the "Tantallon" hyb WAS the original x Nagaland (which is why it's pale pink!). Are there two different hybrids? (I suppose they are not technically hybrids, just crosses of colour forms within the species).
But need they even be hybrids? Why not simple colour variants?
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Hello Maggi
How comes that the pictures from Hakone
are so large or is it my computer
here they are not small as usual
Roland
Roland, Hakone has uploaded the photos from an outside server and so they are shown full size and they are larger than we usually see, on the Forum.
The photos are not loaded as thumbnail size as we are used to but there are several Forumists who use this method .
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But need they even be hybrids? Why not simple colour variants?
As far as I know both the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature (ICBN) and the International Code of Nomenclature of Cultivated Plants (ICNCP) define a hybrid only as a cross between 2 species. Geographically Mt Javpo in Nagaland and the Ukhrul district of Manipur (where the holotype comes from) are not that far apart so it would be very likely the old light pink and the new dark pink are colour variants.
So "Tantallon" would be a cross between 2 colour variants of the same species and only if distinct enough could be given the cultivar status with that name. Lilium x "Tantallon" therefore would certainly be incorrect and I even doubt an intermediate colourform is distinct enough to be granted a cultivar status.
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Hi all, I have read all these posts about Lilium mackliniae with great interest as I grow these very well here at Kirriemuir. I am posting some pictures of most of this group and add a special recent collection from Peter Cox which is white and flowers in May. I have shown this at SRGC show could this be a new species or again a colour variant?, I also add a picture of my own cross so look forward to any further comments, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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As far as I know both the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature (ICBN) and the International Code of Nomenclature of Cultivated Plants (ICNCP) define a hybrid only as a cross between 2 species. Geographically Mt Javpo in Nagaland and the Ukhrul district of Manipur (where the holotype comes from) are not that far apart so it would be very likely the old light pink and the new dark pink are colour variants.
So "Tantallon" would be a cross between 2 colour variants of the same species and only if distinct enough could be given the cultivar status with that name. Lilium x "Tantallon" therefore would certainly be incorrect and I even doubt an intermediate colourform is distinct enough to be granted a cultivar status.
Am I right in thinking that all? most? of L mackliniae in cultivation prior to 2000 derives from the original Kingdom Ward introduction from Manipur?? So the pale pink/white form is the form that everyone knows and thinks of as the typical form. The recent Cox introductions from a different area are just bringing some different colour forms into cultivation, and maybe some other different characters such as early flowering. Probably none are hybrids, just natural variants that we haven't previously seen. Although I am interested to hear that the Taylors regard their form as more vigorous. Sounds like it's worth a try here, where the usual form is not an easy plant and gives in to virus very quickly, sad as it's one of my favourite plants.
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Diane, it seems that way. The story with L. mackliniae reminds me a bit of Arisaema candidissimum where only the Forrest introductions were grown for years until Chen Yi started exporting and we suddenly got different pinks and whites in the new clones. Wouldn't be the first time growers are unable to place new varieties that are introduced after years of growing just one form and thinking that is the "typical" species. Would be interesting to know the history behind the Kingdon Ward introduction of mackliniae. Was it a seedlot? Was it a bulb? Several bulbs? Anybody knows this?
@Ian, I have no knowledge of Lilium taxonomy but the habit of the white flowering plant certainly looks different to the other mackliniae's you show. Is that a wild introduction from Cox too?
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Are there two different hybrids? (I suppose they are not technically hybrids, just crosses of colour forms within the species).
Diane,
a hybrid is the offspring of any two taxon. A taxon is a described entity, which would include colour forms, sub-species, varieties, etc., as long as they are a defined entity. Random crossing of seedlings within the same taxon are not considered hybrids. Therefore F2 generation seedlings are not hybrids in and of themselves, although they may actually represent a hybrid. Confusing, isn't it!
Jamie
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Hi, yes the white form I have is grown from bulbs given to me by Peter Cox, you can see differences between the origonal form and the dark form. The new white form is much earlier flowering but it is to soon to say what will happen next year as I grew the bulbs under cover until they flowered. I have spoken to Peter Cox who grows it outside and It flowers early such a beautiful form, will keep you posted next year also, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Jamie,
I am not sure the very wide description of taxa can be applied to this. I will ask a friend of mine when he is back from holiday how that definition exactly works because he was contributor to the latest International Code of Nomenclature of Cultivated Plants. Even then, it all depends on the taxonomist if he/she wants to recognise a colourform as an infraspecific taxon. Personally I think "f. alba" or "f. rosea" and the like are unnecessary splitting, I rather see them registered as cultivars.
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Hi, yes the white form I have is grown from bulbs given to me by Peter Cox, you can see differences between the origonal form and the dark form. The new white form is much earlier flowering but it is to soon to say what will happen next year as I grew the bulbs under cover until they flowered. I have spoken to Peter Cox who grows it outside and It flowers early such a beautiful form, will keep you posted next year also, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
But is it of wild origin? And where from then?
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Are there two different hybrids? (I suppose they are not technically hybrids, just crosses of colour forms within the species).
Diane,
a hybrid is the offspring of any two taxon. A taxon is a described entity, which would include colour forms, sub-species, varieties, etc., as long as they are a defined entity. Random crossing of seedlings within the same taxon are not considered hybrids. Therefore F2 generation seedlings are not hybrids in and of themselves, although they may actually represent a hybrid. Confusing, isn't it!
Sorry, I was just using the word in the way it had been used before in the thread, to try and avoid confusion! I do understand they are not hybrids. What I would really like to know is whether the Taylors have two different forms/cultivars, or whether the one they call "Tantallon" is the same as the one derived from the "new" Nagaland form crossed with the "old" Manipur form. I think only they can alnswer that one, perhaps via Liz, unless Ian knows.
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some lilies flowering in pots in June.
Lilium albanicum
Lilium oxypetalum insigne
Lilium ledebourii
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Are there two different hybrids? (I suppose they are not technically hybrids, just crosses of colour forms within the species).
Diane,
a hybrid is the offspring of any two taxon. A taxon is a described entity, which would include colour forms, sub-species, varieties, etc., as long as they are a defined entity. Random crossing of seedlings within the same taxon are not considered hybrids. Therefore F2 generation seedlings are not hybrids in and of themselves, although they may actually represent a hybrid. Confusing, isn't it!
Sorry, I was just using the word in the way it had been used before in the thread, to try and avoid confusion! I do understand they are not hybrids. What I would really like to know is whether the Taylors have two different forms/cultivars, or whether the one they call "Tantallon" is the same as the one derived from the "new" Nagaland form crossed with the "old" Manipur form. I think only they can alnswer that one, perhaps via Liz, unless Ian knows.
Diane,
that was not a critque on my part (read: being a smart ass :-X ), as, from what has so far been described, they seem to be taxon, in that they have been collected and IDed/named. A description need not be in latin to be valid, it simply need to be published; in a catalogue, on the internet, etc. If Tantallon, Manipur and Nagaland are names used to identify specific entities, then they are taxon and offspring between them are hybrids, that belong to the same species.
I am unclear as to the status of these lilies. As you said, only 'they' can answer the question. In any case, beautiful flowers.
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I have Lilium martagon allover the garden from self sown seedlings. I started off with album and cattaniae grown from seed and did not want any pinks but now have them in all shades including a very nice spotty one.Many are in places where I do not want them, but they grow between stones at the edges of borders and up through other plants where they will be very difficult to remove if I ever get round to it. The strong winds on Monday left many leaning, Two bent halfway up the stem and two broken at ground level.
Lilium martagon
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WOW
Roland
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Hi Pascal B, yes the Lilium mackliniae white was wild collected and Peter Cox has given me this name Caremati which is either a region or a mountain in Nagaland and after I put the dark form to Joint Rock it was named Naga pink. I am sure that these forms deserve individual names to recognise just how different they are and also for those who wish to buy them it is important as they will select whatever they like best. One other think is also important the seed raised bulbs from each variation may well vary as cross pollination will occur what then will we have??. The white form which flowers in May way before any others will we hope remain true to type but then again who knows and no plants in my garden have read any books or pay attention to International codes I jsut love them for what they are, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Hello Maggi,
I grow Lilium since two years
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3702/lophophorum01.jpg) (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/lophophorum01.jpg/)
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4260/lophophorum04.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/i/lophophorum04.jpg/)
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2676/lophophorum06.jpg) (http://img208.imageshack.us/i/lophophorum06.jpg/)
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Diane
The Taylors said that their "Tantallon" was a cross between the original L mackliniae that they'd grown for years (presumably the 'Manipur' form) and the dark pink form from Nagaland. Does this help?
Liz
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Hi Ian,
It would be very simple, make it a cultivar if distinct enough, "Naga Pink" would indeed be a good one and I am surprised that the Cox' don't already have given it a cultivar name. But all the hybridized offspring with the originial clone (clones?) would be a far more complicated story because there is only a limited number or traits that can vary if the cross is within the same species. It might even be limited to the shade of pink and there are many, many shades of pink. None of the offspring is likely to be even darker than "Naga Pink" however so that will always be recognisable.
At the moment there seems to be only 1 registered cultivar of L. mackliniae and that is L. mackliniae "Sealy". Don't know what that looks like or makes it special but we don't have any more. Yes, plants don't read books or codes, true. But plants are not born with names either, we invent the names for them. It would become a mess if everyone would create a cultivar name for the form they grow. The whole reason for names is to bring order to chaos, the whole reason for codes and rules is to regulate order. Perfect example are the Meconopsis hybrids where things got out of hands with the hybrid and cultivar names and nobody in the end knew what they were bying or growing and a team was needed to re-order this group.
As long as the cultivars are distinct enough, that's the point. If we end up with hundreds of cultivar names for plants that all look rather similar even the cultivar name becomes useless. Hence the codes with rules and recommendations. It is not always the taxonomists that create confusion, more often than not it is the amateur enthusiast that wants to put his or her personal stamp on a plant that causes the confusion..... ;)
But it is still the nursery that wants to sell a plant with a name and it is still the grower who wants to put a label on a plant. Maybe you don't really mind if it hasn't got a name (and in many cases I don't either) but many on the forum do.
I can't find Caremati on any of my maps from India but if it flowers much earlier and has a different habit I wouldn't be surprised if it is a different species/subspecies/variety.
Pascal
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Hi, thanks for all the comments about Lilium mackliniae, I did contact Peter Cox before I named Naga Pink and he gave me the name Caremati for the White one will confirm spelling and the name soonest, cheers Ian.
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Lilium henryi
Lilium leichtlinii
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Not Lilium, but close enough: Notholirion campanulatum
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This time I checked the label - Lilium canadense.
johnw
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Such an elegant shape, Lilium canadense.
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Are there any dos and don'ts to keeping Lilium souliei-seedlings alive? Can I treat them like lophophorum, or do you have to be more careful with fertilizer?
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The BD has the experience.....
(Bulb Log 21, 18th May 2004)
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Thanks Giles, let's hope the BD reads this :)
(Also, 9 years from seed to flower?! Ugh... :P)
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Yes I do read this and the rest :P
I do not know of any secrets with Lilium souliei seedlings, I suspect getting hold of the seed is the hardest bit.
Plenty dilute potassium rich feeding and keep them growing as long as you can each year. My single plant flowers about every second year but being an only child has never set seed.
Good luck I look forward to the pictures.
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Thanks Ian, good to know it's not sensitive to potassium at least. I'm tempted to use my regular heavy-handed approach to fertilizer, it got lophophorum flowering in three years... (With only two seedlings I'm guaranteed to have killed them before 9 years have passed anyway :P)
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Hi all fantastic pictures and great info. I post a few Lilium pictures taken in the garden recently, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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That's the darkest Lilium martagon var cattaniae
i have ever seen
what a beauty and they look quite tall with a nice strong stem
is this one named ??
Roland
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What fantastic lilies have been posted recently. L. pumilum is one of my favourites, wonderful pictures Ian.
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Hi Roland, I thought this was very nice as well unfortunately it is in a friends garden forgot to say that and it will not come true from seed. The flower buds are coverd in a white downy material and it is later than the others, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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maybe you can "loan" a few scales from him
they are easy to multiply from scales
worth to propagate
its pity if one day this selection is lost
because a new owner wants "asphalt" in his garden
this happens to often
Roland
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Lilium lankongense
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Just in flower
I bought this one from Chen Yi as Lilium amoenum var
I am not sure if the name is correct but it is a nice one
Roland
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How big is the flower? It looks a lot like a pink L. bakerianum...
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Petals are 10cm long and the flower is 9 cm wide
Roland
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Then it's very likely to be (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=118558#KEY-1-25) Lilium bakerinum, the leaves should have papillose edges.
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Purely coincidence, a Chinese import in flower in my collection right now which I believe to be the "classic" bakerianum (correct me if I am wrong....). Leaf edges are not only papillose, the entire leaf surface is. Plant about 1 m tall and of the "floppy" kind that needs staking. Love the pink of Roland's plant more though, mine is a greenish beige but I have another one from that batch in bud so I am hopefull.
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Mine are all different pinks
this one is the darkest
but not all are flowering this year
I cross pollinated them
Roland
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Paul, WOW, it's great to see this sort of hybridising programme going on, a shame ( from Europes's perspective ) that you are in OZ, lucky for your countrymen though! Have you 'played' with martagon at all?
Cheers
Chris
G'day Chris--sorry not to have replied to your much earlier post.Only came back onto the forum today.
Thanks for your remarks and yes I am also working with martagons, but only in a fairly modest way.A major goal is to breed martagons that will flower, set seed and survive our Australian heat.Two seasons ago, it was over 46c where I live and this past season was a shocker too, but my martagon seedlings are doing quite well.I am able to flower them in 3 years.This past season I did 19 crosses and produced over 1000 seed.There are very few mart. species available here in Australia and those flowering size bulbs that I bought last year, didn't appear above ground, but should come up this year.I have quite a few cattaniae and daugava seedlings coming along, but have not been able to get any seed of mart. albiflorum.
I may have posted these pictures before--sorry if that is the case.The seedling 26-139/1 is a pantrellis x op and is my favourite.The other picture shows the way in which I sow 20-30 seedlings in a 200mm pot.I use warm-cold periods three times and then the seedlings go into deep polystyrene boxes with very free draining soil and heavily mulched.
Regards--Paul R
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There are some great lilium pictures being posted--thanks to all who take the trouble.
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Olina - a lovely dark colour & perhaps not to everyones liking, but my favourite hybrid lily.
Sensual.
formosana priceii
pardalinum.
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Oh yes, I really like the dark one, especially if the foliage is almost black as well! :P
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Hi Peter,maybe not to everybody's liking,but I like.Any seed forth coming from Olinda or Sensual.bye Ray
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I'm with Ray on that.... I just LOVE Olina. :o
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Here's a pot of Lilium brownii seedlings sown 10 February 2009. How long should I leave them in the seedling pot please before re-potting them singly?
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Do it as soon as they wilt down this autumn, the bulbs and roots get tangled together creating a huge mess if they are left for too long.
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Many thanks for the swift reply, will do.
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David,
If kept right they may take quite a while to die down though..... I've had Lilium seedlings grow for at least a couple of seasons without a break if I keep them cool enough in summer, so I would imagine it would be much easier for them to do so with your place. Obviously the longer you can keep them growing the better, as the bigger the bulbs will grow. :D
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Lilium fargesii, flowers are lime green and have the same scent as hyacinths. Cute little plant, barely 40 cm tall with grasslike leaves.
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a lily in flower as I got home from holiday.It is from China and I am assuming it is Lilium bakerianum var aureum which is how it is labeled
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Tony, according to McRae Lilium brownii is "pure creamy white inside and rosy purple to chocolate brown outside, sometimes overlaid with green". Var australis he describes as "..... with the colouring on the reverse varying from green to chocolate brown" but he doesn't mention the inside. Var viridulum he says is "pale yellow on opening but soon fading to white", the "inner surface of the tepals has green shading, and the outer surface is marked with green and rosy purple".
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David typing error due to jet lag it is supposed to be L. bakerianum var aureum. I have changed my post,thank you
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To be honest, I can't really understand what the difference is between L. bakerianum var. aureum and var. delavayi. The plant on my pictures on the previous page I have labeled as L. bakerianum var. delavayi because I thought it wasn't the clear yellow var. aureum is supposed to be but are var. delavayi and var. aureum not simply part of the same colour variation range? And var. rubrum the form in all shades of pink? Or are there more differences besides colour?
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Pascal
Derek Fox describes var aureum as yellow with purple speckling on the inside.He also says it is not so much a single species as complex group.
Perhaps the problem lies in that, did the various people describing them ever see the variation in the wild or just a few collections?
These are all new introductions and the original plants from which they were described are long gone.
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Lilium martagon 'Plenum'
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To be honest, I can't really understand what the difference is between L. bakerianum var. aureum and var. delavayi. The plant on my pictures on the previous page I have labeled as L. bakerianum var. delavayi because I thought it wasn't the clear yellow var. aureum is supposed to be but are var. delavayi and var. aureum not simply part of the same colour variation range? And var. rubrum the form in all shades of pink? Or are there more differences besides colour?
Tony has already said the important thing but have you checked the flora of china website?
Göte
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More lilies in flower.
Lilium distichum is supposed to have double pedicels or forked inflorecense. I have never seen that but the flowers are not summetrical and this is even more visible from the back. It grows in a funny way first comes a stalk with a whorl of leaves not unlike a Paris. Then - after some hesitation - the central bud developes into an infloresence.
Lilium duchartreii is now all over the place since the stem first grows sideways and develops offsets on the way. It seems that I have two clones since one always flowers in an umbel and the other does not. The nectaries are green tunnels in the middle of the tepals. I am not sure that the picture is clear enough. Some consider this to be the same species as lankongense. It seems that the shape of theinflorecense is not a good feature to distinguish these taxa.
Zygadenus elegans is a (modest) beauty. I wish I could grow it better
Cheers
Göte
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To be honest, I can't really understand what the difference is between L. bakerianum var. aureum and var. delavayi. The plant on my pictures on the previous page I have labeled as L. bakerianum var. delavayi because I thought it wasn't the clear yellow var. aureum is supposed to be but are var. delavayi and var. aureum not simply part of the same colour variation range? And var. rubrum the form in all shades of pink? Or are there more differences besides colour?
Tony has already said the important thing but have you checked the flora of china website?
Göte
Yes I did. But not much help there:
Tepals pale yellow, yellow, brownish yellow, or purplish yellow, with purple or purple-red spots adaxially 14b var. aureum
Tepals yellowish green, pale yellow-green, greenish, or pale green, with purple or bright red spots adaxially 14c var. delavayi
Basically every shade of yellow is covered between the 2 varieties and the difference between pale yellow and yellowish green is not really clearcut.
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Arisaema,
The double martagon is amazing!! :o :o :o
Gote,
Beautiful pics. The assymetrical flowers on distichum are fascinating. Very cool by the look of it. 8)
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The double martagon is amazing!! :o :o :o
I thought you'd like it - just as I suspect Lesley will consider it a monstrosity ;D Lilium cernuum 'Album' (or var. album? var. candidum?) below.
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David,
If kept right they may take quite a while to die down though..... I've had Lilium seedlings grow for at least a couple of seasons without a break if I keep them cool enough in summer, so I would imagine it would be much easier for them to do so with your place. Obviously the longer you can keep them growing the better, as the bigger the bulbs will grow. :D
Sorry Paul I hd missed your reply, many thanks, very helpful.
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A couple of lilium taliense grown from the same seed pod. It doesn't really show from the photos but the first is quite a lemon colour.
They are similar to lankongense and duchartrei in that they run about.
Susan
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I'd better not say anything about the double martagon, except perhaps - what an achievement!
But I like the white cernuum very much as well as talianse and I ADORE L. fargesii. :D
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Lilium I think it's 'Ebony' but I'm not totally sure.
Graham
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What an absolutely stunning lily, Graham, and the planting combination looks terrific :)
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You're right there Robin. That dark red enhanced and supported by red Astilbe and darker red maple is a wonderful combination. There are dark Heucheras et al as well Graham? ;D
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What an absolutely stunning lily, Graham, and the planting combination looks terrific :)
You're right there Robin. That dark red enhanced and supported by red Astilbe and darker red maple is a wonderful combination. There are dark Heucheras et al as well Graham? ;D
Robin and Lesley: thanks for your comments, I really appreciate them.
Unfortunately I only have two of the lilies left from 9 that I bought several years ago. I keep thinking I should try taking scales and multiplying them from those.
Lesley, the bed which I call the red bed also includes a dark leafed Heuchera, :)along with the red Alstromeria, (that I showed last week), and also includes the red Astilbe 'Fire', Clematis 'Sensation' which sprawls where it wants to, a red Penstemon, and to the right a white Astilbe. The dwarf Rhodo. front left is Razorbill and the Magnolia is stellata.
The Alstromeria doesn't always manage to stay erect and falls into other areas and I think adds to the effect.
The photos are of the Heuchera and 'The Red Bed'
Graham
Graham
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Such a rich planting scheme like a plum pudding full of fruit! Thanks for the extra photos Graham...I grow that dark leaved Heuchera with simple hardy red/purple Fuchsia suspended through Ferns.
Which dwarf Rhodo do you grow there?
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Such a rich planting scheme like a plum pudding full of fruit! Thanks for the extra photos Graham...I grow that dark leaved Heuchera with simple hardy red/purple Fuchsia suspended through Ferns.
Which dwarf Rhodo do you grow there?
Hi Robin,
Your planting with the Heuchera sund good - do we get a photo :)
The dwarf Rhodo is 'Razorbill'. It flowers early and is sometimes hit by frosts.
It's quite uncanny that you should say Plum Pudding as that could just be the name of the Heuchera, but I can't really remember.
Graham
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Thanks Graham, the Heuchera is Patty's Plum if it's the same as mine - tomorrow it may be less dull and I'll try a photo, nothing grand :-\
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I use Alstroemeria 'Red Baron' and Penstemons 'Firebird' and 'Garnet' in my red bed and also several Cosmos atrosanguinea and the red leaved grass Imperata cylindrica as well as a couple of dahlias, 'Bishop of LLandaff' and a spiky, blood-red cactus form. There are other things too including some purple reds and orangey reds but no pinky shades.
Unfortunately, this red bed is still in my mind. It's been there for years.::) One day.....
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::) 8) ??? :o Oh Lesley, you had me fooled, I was imagining this amazing bed full of hot coloured plants growing so well together ;D ;D
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Lilium auratum.
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I use Alstroemeria 'Red Baron' and Penstemons 'Firebird' and 'Garnet' in my red bed and also several Cosmos atrosanguinea and the red leaved grass Imperata cylindrica as well as a couple of dahlias, 'Bishop of LLandaff' and a spiky, blood-red cactus form. There are other things too including some purple reds and orangey reds but no pinky shades.
Unfortunately, this red bed is still in my mind. It's been there for years.::) One day.....
::) 8) ??? :o Oh Lesley, you had me fooled, I was imagining this amazing bed full of hot coloured plants growing so well together ;D ;D
Yes Lesley you had me fooled too. ???i was hoping we were going to get a photo of that wonderful combination. You really should put that together. :)
Graham
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Lilium I think it's 'Ebony' but I'm not totally sure.
Graham
Graham, I think the name of your plant is not o.k.
L. Ebony has a Turkish Cap form (so I found out in the Lily Register.)
I got my bulbs 2 years with the name Lancini, which is not right too.
It was in a parcel from a post-order firm and given to me. It's rather dark in the garden, so not every ones taste.
The right name is: Lilium Landini.
Here two pics for comparison.
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Here another lily which I received from the same deliverer.
The only good thing of this one is that the leaves are so sturdy that they get not attacked by lily beetles and did not have to pay for it ;D
And one of my favourites here is Lilium Citronella
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Lilium I think it's 'Ebony' but I'm not totally sure.
Graham
Graham, I think the name of your plant is not o.k.
L. Ebony has a Turkish Cap form (so I found out in the Lily Register.)
I got my bulbs 2 years with the name Lancini, which is not right too.
It was in a parcel from a post-order firm and given to me. It's rather dark in the garden, so not every ones taste.
The right name is: Lilium Landini.
Here two pics for comparison.
Hi Luit,
Many thanks for the identification. Ebony was the closest I could find but I wasn't sure. I couldn't remember buying Ebony and thought perhaps the lily was a name I wouldn't have remembered. So Landini seems the correct name. Do you know when it was introduced.
Citronella is really nice.
Graham
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I use Alstroemeria 'Red Baron' and Penstemons 'Firebird' and 'Garnet' in my red bed and also several Cosmos atrosanguinea and the red leaved grass Imperata cylindrica as well as a couple of dahlias, 'Bishop of LLandaff' and a spiky, blood-red cactus form. There are other things too including some purple reds and orangey reds but no pinky shades.
Unfortunately, this red bed is still in my mind. It's been there for years.::) One day.....
::) 8) ??? :o Oh Lesley, you had me fooled, I was imagining this amazing bed full of hot coloured plants growing so well together ;D ;D
Yes Lesley you had me fooled too. ???i was hoping we were going to get a photo of that wonderful combination. You really should put that together. :)
Graham
Well it seems I'm to have an extra 8 hours per week for gardening (see "Moan, Moan...") so perhaps by next year there will be something material to see.
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Lilium auratum.
Gorgeous lily, Giles, all those speckles in the creamy trumpet - so elegant looking :D
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Citronella is glorious Luit especially in your planting with red leaves behind and purple flowers around. Against the sky they make a fine display :)
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Well it seems I'm to have an extra 8 hours per week for gardening (see "Moan, Moan...") so perhaps by next year there will be something material to see.
We do hope so!
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Luit
I really like the citronella,a very fine plant.
Here is Lilium chalcedonicum in flower
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Lilium leichtlinii var. maximowiczii. I am not that keen on orange flowers but this is a nice one.
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Thanks to all for the wonderful lily pictures they ars all just great, cheers Ian the Christie kind.
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Lilium fargesii (2cm diameter)
''Yellow tigrinum''
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Very nice Giles, how tall is L. fargesii please?
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It would have been about 3' if I had got round to staking it ( ;D), so probably only of botanical curiosity value.
It doesn't smell very nice.
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TVM. It looks good though, in an under-stated sort of way :-\
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It would have been about 3' if I had got round to staking it ( ;D), so probably only of botanical curiosity value only.
It doesn't smell very nice.
Giles, I don't know if we are talking about the same species I posted some pix of a week ago but my plants of L. fargesii do smell VERY nice. Are you sure your plant doesn't smell very nice?!
The second plant of this species I got in flower had the same amount of spotting as the flower on your picture by the way.
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....I think it's personal preference..... I don't like the fragrance of any lily, (nor any bulb when I come to think of it) but think border phloxes are wonderful....(which most people dislike).
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To be honest, I can't really understand what the difference is between L. bakerianum var. aureum and var. delavayi. The plant on my pictures on the previous page I have labeled as L. bakerianum var. delavayi because I thought it wasn't the clear yellow var. aureum is supposed to be but are var. delavayi and var. aureum not simply part of the same colour variation range? And var. rubrum the form in all shades of pink? Or are there more differences besides colour?
Sorry to be so long in posting this. According to Drysdale, Woodcock & Stearn "Lilies of the World", Forrest found both L bakerianum var aureum and var delavayi in north Yunnan. He described var aureum as 'of a rich golden-yellow throughout, minutely speckled purple on the interior from the base to the very tips of the segments'. His field notes re var delavayi indicate the ground colour as ranging from dull olive-green and palish greenish yellow to olive-brown, with reddish purple maroon or crimson spots on the inside of the bell-shaped flower.
Does this help?
Liz
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To be honest, I can't really understand what the difference is between L. bakerianum var. aureum and var. delavayi. The plant on my pictures on the previous page I have labeled as L. bakerianum var. delavayi because I thought it wasn't the clear yellow var. aureum is supposed to be but are var. delavayi and var. aureum not simply part of the same colour variation range? And var. rubrum the form in all shades of pink? Or are there more differences besides colour?
Sorry to be so long in posting this. According to Drysdale, Woodcock & Stearn "Lilies of the World", Forrest found both L bakerianum var aureum and var delavayi in north Yunnan. He described var aureum as 'of a rich golden-yellow throughout, minutely speckled purple on the interior from the base to the very tips of the segments'. His field notes re var delavayi indicate the ground colour as ranging from dull olive-green and palish greenish yellow to olive-brown, with reddish purple maroon or crimson spots on the inside of the bell-shaped flower.
Does this help?
Liz
Thanx Liz, in that case both the plant from Tony Willis as well as mine would fall in var. delavayi. But it also shows that varieties based on color almost never work unless it is a single gene switch between one color and the other without anything in between. And even then, if they grow side by side and are pollinated by the same pollinators and most likely have the same patterns under UV light to guide the pollinators, why use a taxonomic status to describe a horticultural difference....?
Maybe proper fieldwork would clarify it for this Lilium species but I quess it really depends on the genus if colors are used to describe varieties on. Personally I rather see the use of cultivars if people insist on naming the different color forms. In Araceae for instance, despite many color variants of species in various genera, taxonomic distinction based on color is hardly (if at all) used. Asarum dito.
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These are from the Italian Dolomites from last week!
Cheers Gerard
By the way these are wild Martagons!
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Maybe proper fieldwork would clarify it for this Lilium species but I quess it really depends on the genus if colors are used to describe varieties on. Personally I rather see the use of cultivars if people insist on naming the different color forms. In Araceae for instance, despite many color variants of species in various genera, taxonomic distinction based on color is hardly (if at all) used. Asarum dito.
Most of the orange lilies of the eastern part of Eurasia have yellow sports. In one case the yellow variant (lechtlinii) was named as type whereas the more common orange was named first a separate species (maximowiczii). In my eyes, a mistake. Cultvar names can only be used on man-made or man-selected taxa but I agree. There should be a better way of defining the various colour variations that occur.
Cheers
Göte
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Maybe proper fieldwork would clarify it for this Lilium species but I quess it really depends on the genus if colors are used to describe varieties on. Personally I rather see the use of cultivars if people insist on naming the different color forms. In Araceae for instance, despite many color variants of species in various genera, taxonomic distinction based on color is hardly (if at all) used. Asarum dito.
Most of the orange lilies of the eastern part of Eurasia have yellow sports. In one case the yellow variant (lechtlinii) was named as type whereas the more common orange was named first a separate species (maximowiczii). In my eyes, a mistake. Cultvar names can only be used on man-made or man-selected taxa but I agree. There should be a better way of defining the various colour variations that occur.
Cheers
Göte
Göte, true. Cultivar names can only be applied to cultivated plants but it seems that the need for name distinction based on color primarily is asked for in cultivation and not so much in taxonomy itself. The highest percentage of varieties based on color therefore can be found in the genera that have horticultural value or were revised by people that have their background in horticulture. It could however be that there are more stable characters in L. bakerianum that would justify a varietal status hence my initial question and my remark on fieldwork. Is there any current research going on for Lilium in the wild?
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Lilium wardii, a lankongense-lookalike with nectaries like taliense.
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L. lankongense
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Hi,
I'd appreciate any comments on this lily, it was grown from SRGC seedex 2006/2007 seed as speciosum, I think it is lankongense, flowered at the end of June and was scented. It's set seed so I'd like to get the name right.
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I think it is lankongense
David, I think you're right.
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Hi,
I'd appreciate any comments on this lily, it was grown from SRGC seedex 2006/2007 seed as speciosum, I think it is lankongense, flowered at the end of June and was scented. It's set seed so I'd like to get the name right.
Can you show the whole plant please
Goete
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Rob, Gote, thanks for the replies. Below are some photos of the whole plant, in a 4 inch pot, so around 80 cms high. The entire packet of seeds is in this pot, but only one has flowered and that for the first time in 2009, making a couple of years from seed to flower.
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L. nepalense
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Spectacular photo Giles, I love the colouring and shape of your L. nepalense :D
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Rob, Gote, thanks for the replies. Below are some photos of the whole plant, in a 4 inch pot, so around 80 cms high. The entire packet of seeds is in this pot, but only one has flowered and that for the first time in 2009, making a couple of years from seed to flower.
I also think that this is lankongense or duchartreii v. lankongense if we are lumpers.
The forms I know will grow sideways a couple of decimeters or more before emerging (making offsets on the way) so you probably have an enormous tangle in the pot.
I grow them in a bed and they appear everywhere but will be nearly double the size of yours.
I am impressed by your speedy success you must have the perfect soil and given a lot of care.
Göte
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Gote - thanks. I will examine the contents of the pot at the end of the year and see what the bulbs look like. Of the five seedlings only one has flowered, that managed to get big enough in an 8cm pot with the rest. They've lived in the greenhouse all the time, so usually good conditions, although I managed to get them too hot one year.
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Lilium auratum in flower at the moment. Of-sets from a bulb purchased a few years ago from Wisley
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Lilium amoenum, L. leucanthum, L. majoense and (at last!) L. fargesii.
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Beautiful species Arisaema. I have just a single bulb of majoense but it is OK and I live in hope of a flower quite soon.
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Lilium auratum in flower at the moment. Of-sets from a bulb purchased a few years ago from Wisley
A really lovely lily Tony - how long is a few years to flower from offsets? Is it highly scented?
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Lilium amoenum, L. leucanthum, L. majoense and (at last!) L. fargesii.
A glorious collection in your garden, Arisaema, L. majoense has wonderful rich contrasting colours...by the way can you enlighten me as to what 'fargesii' actually means? I have tried to find out on the web and failed - is it something to do with scent or form?
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Robin
try this site
www.plantexplorers.com/explorers/biographies/french-missionaries/pere-paul-guillaume-farges.htm
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Thanks Tony, really interesting to read about the French Botanist/Naturalist & seed collector Pčre Farges and to see where the name 'fargesii' came from....my Mother nurtured a rhododendron she called fargesii which was a lovely ancient tree that finally expired - I attempted to air layer a stem in moss to no avail - and not even Hilliers could tell us what the Rhodendron actually was.
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Rhododendron oreodoxa var. fargesii.
It's commercially available
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Rhododendron oreodoxa var. fargesii.
It's commercially available
My goodness Giles, it was incredibly similar to your suggestion from memory and had the same shaped leaves and bell flower - I must dig out and old photo I took years ago, thanks.
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Lilium speciosum rubrum
Lilium rosthornii
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Pretty lily flowers, Giles... and a natty piece of multi-tasking.... admiring blooms, holding flower for taking photo, carrot ready to munch to keep strength up... most impressive! ;D ;)
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Ooops! (I hadn't noticed :-[ )
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Lilium amoenum, L. leucanthum, L. majoense and (at last!) L. fargesii.
I must come to Norway and look for myself how you do it.
I have bad success with all four.
These are really superb.
Göte
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Lilium pyrophilum.
This will be my last.
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A really elegant lily Giles, lovely colour, spotting and anther display - sorry it is your last, you've shown some wonderful specimens 8)
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I once bought a "Chinese Lily" from a gentleman who said he got it from someone who had been visiting Nepal (Or was it Bhutan)
It turned out to be a Russian hybrid called 'Notschka' A very easy one with bulbils like lancifolium and a colour that does not show up well in photos. :-\
My "true tsingtauense" flowers again. The pedicels have an unusual shape and the flowers are more upright than the "tsingtauense" I grow since many years. It is also much smaller and later. However, I can trace a little of the assymetry in the flower.
I got my yellow concolor from the wrong seed envelope. Kalle in Denmark got the same - we are both very happy about the mistake. :)
This is what I believe is a typical lankongense. Itis appearing in many places but does not flower much - yet ;)
Cheers
Göte
PS The lateness of these pics is because we had all four grandchildren visiting us.
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The colour of 'Notschka' is superb Gote, a wonderful, thick red. and I really like L. pyrophilum, such elegance as Robin says.
does anyone have a picture of L. polyphyllum please? I have some seed just up yesterday from a Nov 08 sowing.
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I can help with that request, Lesley....
At this link:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3633.msg102241#msg102241
John Weagle shows his Lillium polyphyllum , it is picture DSCN9297.
And back here, in the thread Lilium and allies (Cardiocrinum. Notholirion and Nomocharis) July 2008
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1996.msg50993#msg50993 where such matters were being discussed I had news of photos of this lovely lily, some from SRGC notables, Henry and Margaret Taylor, who had supplied photos to this website:
http://www.the-genus-lilium.com/polyphyllum.htm
Enjoy!
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Ah, my hero(ine.) Thanks as always Maggi. What a lovely thing it is.
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Lesley
when Henry and Margaret came to talk to our group I won a packet of their Lilium polyphyllum seeds in a raffle.
They are now growing well although they are still perhaps a couple of years of flowering.
As they are not on the web I got their address from Maggi and wrote to them for details.
Here is their reply.
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Thanks for that Tony. What a good response to your winning that raffle. A very useful letter to have with sound advice. (I won a kilo of pork sausages once. Not at an alpine meeting though. ::))
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In flower today, the big trumpet of Lilium sargentiae. Due to the strong wind in Holland the pollen is everywhere inside the flower..... >:(
Could anybody tell me how to treat the stem bulbils at the end of the seaon so I can increase the number in my garden of this species?
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Göte,
'Notschka' is very popular and loved variety in Russia and CIS countries. I was very surprised to see you grow it. It is usually spelled as 'Noczka'.
For some very favourite lilies I practice pot culture (10-12 litre pot for a bulb) and keep them in long open balcony protected from rains. In the balcony lilies get mild sunlight. I repot and divide my bulbs every other 3 years, use leafy soil collected under trees (upper 5 cm soil level, never use fertilisers). This culture provides maximum performance. For example, my oriental lilium 'Casa Blanca" gets 2 metre high and flowers tremendously. Some photos.
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In flower today, the big trumpet of Lilium sargentiae. Due to the strong wind in Holland the pollen is everywhere inside the flower..... >:(
Could anybody tell me how to treat the stem bulbils at the end of the seaon so I can increase the number in my garden of this species?
When the bulbils start to come away from the stem easily, without any force (i.e. about to drop off) then you simply remove them and pot up (in gritty well-drained compost, planted just below the surface or with the tips just showing above the surface of the compost. Keep just moist enough to prevent the bulbils shrivelling until leaf growth starts in the Spring.
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Pascal:
I put all the stem bulbils in barely moist peat, coir or potting soil and place in a zip lock bag in the fridge for the winter months.
In Spring I place them on the surface of a light well draining potting soil in filtered light until they grow their first leaf then increase the light. You may see roots attached to the bulbils as you removed them from the leaf axils.
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Martin, Arnold, thanks for the advice. Because it is flowering this late in the year I doubt I will be able to get any seedpods to mature and I would love to get more of these big trumpets so the bulbils probably will be the only way I can increase it. I have another bulbil producing Chinese Lilium in bud (2 weeks away from flowering) which I am hoping is L. sulphureum but the same thing applies to that one.
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Göte,
'Notschka' is very popular and loved variety in Russia and CIS countries. I was very surprised to see you grow it. It is usually spelled as 'Noczka'.
Thank you for giving the correct spelling. As I wrote, I got it from someone who pretended that it were something else.
I am not surprised that it is popular. It has a vivid colour, big flowers and is very easy to grow - at least in my climate. Furthermore it sets bulbils in the same rate as lancifolium. A superb garden plant really.
Göte
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Now I turn to You here in SRGS again... to inquire once more if there are ANY kind soul, who could spare some seeds of Lilium martagón var. daugava.... since at the moment I'm not able to use creditcard to make inquiries from commercial sources! I'm mostly interested in this ssp. since it's capability to germinate immediately!! Please...will You help me!!! Yours: Matti
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Hello Everybody,
Here are pics of 2 lilies which flowered last spring. I'm not sure of their identity but they were sold as HANSONII and LANKONGENSE. And having seen recent posts there are reasons for us to misidentify the latter.
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Ooops! I forgot the pics...sorry!
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...and lilium HANSONII...
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The lankongense could be wardii - pictures of the front of the flower (wardii has a dark nectary streak) and the whole stem would help.
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Lilium duchartreii is now all over the place since the stem first grows sideways and develops offsets on the way. It seems that I have two clones since one always flowers in an umbel and the other does not. The nectaries are green tunnels in the middle of the tepals. I am not sure that the picture is clear enough. Some consider this to be the same species as lankongense. It seems that the shape of theinflorecense is not a good feature to distinguish these taxa.
Cheers
Göte
Lilium duchartrei flowers in an umbel and langkongense in an panicle otherwise they are very similar
I checked this at lily dudes site http://www.the-genus-lilium.com/
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One Lilium sargentiae from Chen flowered and set seed after I selfed it. It looked virused. :P lots of bulbills
Another 4 bulbs from Chen bought as leucanthum turned out as different clones of L.rosthornii, some with white edges. They already set seed and I keep them inside that they ripen.
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The very last of the year for me to flower. Plants from Chen Yi which I believe to be Lilium sulphureum but because of the pink tinge in the flowers of one of the plants I am not sure so any comments are welcome. Flowering at ~1 m tall and about a month later than sargentiae it is bulblet forming.
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Lilium duchartreii is now all over the place since the stem first grows sideways and develops offsets on the way. It seems that I have two clones since one always flowers in an umbel and the other does not. The nectaries are green tunnels in the middle of the tepals. I am not sure that the picture is clear enough. Some consider this to be the same species as lankongense. It seems that the shape of theinflorecense is not a good feature to distinguish these taxa.
Cheers
Göte
Lilium duchartrei flowers in an umbel and langkongense in an panicle otherwise they are very similar
I checked this at lily dudes site http://www.the-genus-lilium.com/
Well yes but they are both white. Thus = duchartreii. Some taxonomists regard these as variants of a single species See Haw "Lilies of China" for details.
I also grow lankongense which is really pink and does have a slightly different feeling. It is too small to have more than a single flower (yet ;D )
Cheers
Göte
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Pascal:
L. sulphureum and L. sargentiae are very difficult to tell apart. You have to look at the base of the filaments for hairs or not.
L. sulphureum has hairy filaments.
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Sorry gote I meant taliense not lankongense. :P both duchartrei and taliense are white.
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Pascal:
L. sulphureum and L. sargentiae are very difficult to tell apart. You have to look at the base of the filaments for hairs or not.
L. sulphureum has hairy filaments.
Arnold, no hairs visible, not on this one nor on the one of the previous page that flowered a month earlier and I thought was L. sargentiae (bulb size the same, planted at the same time in similar positions). So they are both sargentiae? ???
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Sulphureum should have brown bulbills. L.sargentiae green. Mine looks very much like yours and has green bulbills. Already planted. I suspect there are many unknown variations (species?) in China, which will appear from this or other sources.
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Sulphureum should have brown bulbills. L.sargentiae green. Mine looks very much like yours and has green bulbills. Already planted. I suspect there are many unknown variations (species?) in China, which will appear from this or other sources.
Hi Axel,
I have seen that remark on lilium.com but to be honest, that seems more like a horticultural observation than a reliable taxonomic character and as you can see on the second plant, third picture, the tips of the bulbils are purplish (brown) similar to one of the pictures on lilium.com for sulphureum but were green before and only started to get purplish close to the moment the flowers were opening and some leaves turned purple too so when do the bulbils have to be which color? Tricky, the formation of anthocyan is known to be influenced by external factors (like nights getting colder, light intensity or specific nutrients/trace elements).
This is the first time I grow Chinese Lilium on a larger scale but there still seems to be a lot of (field-) work to be done for this genus in China because I read about characters to distinguish species on which, in other genera, would not even suffice to discern between varieties..... :-\. So I suspect that some closely related species are more likely nodes in a variation range than separate species if studied in the field throughout their distribution range.
Nevertheless, most are worth growing, whatever their name turns out to be.... ;)
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Yes worth growing :). What I wanted to say be reluctant with crossing different varieties they might be different species. An if they still exist in the wild is never certain :-\
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Yes worth growing :). What I wanted to say be reluctant with crossing different varieties they might be different species. An if they still exist in the wild is never certain :-\
Axel, no worries for that, I am a species purist and always hand-pollinate the plants and put the flowers in bags if more than 1 species flowers at the same time. When a plant in my collection turns out to be a non-natural hybrid I give it away.
To add to the confusion I have taken some close-ups of the pointed stem bulbils of the plant on the previous page (which I thought was sargentiae, "bulblets 3") and the rounded bulblets of the one I thought was sulphureum ("bulblets 5 & 7" plus an additional picture of the pink tinged flower)
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A320 sulphureum AF1 (last picture) the right stem looks just like the four bulbs I got from Dix in Holland as L. rosthornii same leafs and bulbills but no flower this year. The other ones have just the same leafs and seemingly flower as my as sargentiae bought by Chen which strangely set seed selfed (one pod is growing). I believe the other "rosthornii" had the same source :P
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I have 3 pods growing of what I thought was sargentiae by pollinating one with the other but doubt they will mature before the first frosts. Unless I can take the plants out and put them frostfree in the glasshouse, I just can't remember if I planted them in an aquatic mesh pot or straight in the soil (senior moment), will have to check that tomorrow. Here is a picture of the third plant that came with the "sargentiae" number but didn't flower. The leaves have turned reddish only last week.
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Lilium chalcedonicum bulbil formed only three weeks after putting the scale in the airing cupboard. A couple of others are showing a root and minute bulbil.