Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Specific Families and Genera => Pleione and Orchidaceae => Topic started by: Darren on January 10, 2010, 05:03:12 PM

Title: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Darren on January 10, 2010, 05:03:12 PM
Many of the Chinese Cymbidium are almost hardy (the Japanese C.goeringii is hardy) and a range used to be sold by the defunct hardy orchid nursery Westwood in the UK. They are not easy to obtain now. This is Cymbidium sinense 'San Chuan' in flower in our living room today. Whilst they will certainly tolerate cold I find this flowers much better if cosseted as a houseplant in winter. Well wouldn't you?

Do any of you grow any of these?
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Joakim B on January 11, 2010, 01:45:44 PM
Very nice Darren
What I see in Portugal is that the normal ones bought in supermarkets or florists goes down to zero and even some degrees below but if the flowers are open they get damage. This is much less if the plants are covered by something like a stair or the overcast of the roof to help protect against the condensation of water at nights then followed by freezing. Maybe this will help making the hardier ones enjoying life a bit better as well. In the cold they do not grow much just waits for warmer weather and the flowers that is out now does well at around 0C at nights and a few degrees above.
Hope it was Ok to have this "semi-info" here and You might already know it but not all might know it. It does not need to be under glass just some cover to take away the condensation of water and then the freezing of it. With the flower dry not much happens around 0. Here in Portugal most Cymbidiums are considered outdoor plants But then we are usually free from longer frost.

Congratulation Darren for a nice plant and flowering of it.

Kind regards
Joakim
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Darren on January 11, 2010, 03:23:11 PM
Thank you Joakim, for replying.

We do grow some of the standard Cymbidium hybrids too. They get put out on the patio in late april and ignored apart from an occasional feed until late september when we bring them in before it gets too cold. I was told that the colder nights in september help to trigger flowering and it seems to work.
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 13, 2010, 07:58:35 AM
Darren,


Please remember that although some species of Cymbidium are hardy/near hardy, others are not  ;)
Cymbidium faberi, goeringii (and its forms & variations: longibracteanum etc) and kanran need cool (cold) temperatures to grow and flower well.
Cymbidium sinense and ensifolium however need a warmer spot to thrive and flower!

We grow Chinese Cymbidiums species and although I know Cym. goeringii is hardy/near hardy we do keep them in the cool greenhouse as some of the forms are a bit too special to expose to the "wild outdoors" (in Belgium).
There is a lot of variation in the flower colour and shape of Cym. goeringii and if I don't forget I'll take some photographs as they flower.

We have grown Cym. ensifolium and sinense in the cool greenhouse for a number of years and they for sure did not like it. After checking the books we found out why... they are warmer growing.
Now that they are in the intermediate/warm greenhouse (night 15°C / day 21°C) they grow AND flower.

I have several clones in flower of Cym. sinense.
Let's see if I can take pictures this evening...


Kenneth.
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Darren on January 13, 2010, 08:06:21 AM
Thank you Kenneth - this confirms my experience with my sinense clone.

I recently bought two clones of goeringii which I hope to keep in my frost-free greenhouse. I'm looking forward to your pictures!

Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 13, 2010, 09:58:57 PM
Here is the first of the Cymbidium goeringii clones in the collection.


Cymbidium goeringii "Chengdu" (received an AM from the Swiss Orchid Society back in 2004):

(http://akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSCN0422 [640x480].JPG)


Cymbidium goeringii alba:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/[AO-07883] [640x480].JPG)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 13, 2010, 10:25:34 PM
Cymbidium goeringii "DuFu CaoTang" with flowers measuring 7,5 x 6,2 cm:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/[AO-07579]%20[640x480].JPG)


Cymbidium goeringii [AO-07583]:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/[AO-07583] [640x480].JPG)


Cymbidium goeringii "Qincheng":

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/[AO-07586] [640x480].JPG)

Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 13, 2010, 10:31:18 PM
Cymbidium faberi szechuanicum "Akerne" AM/RHS (2006):

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSCN7604 [640x480].JPG)


The only problem with this plant is that it took years to become a real plant. Flowering has been eratic until 2006, since then it flowers every year  ???
The plant received the AM due to the size of the flowers, even Phillip Cribb had not seen flowers that size in cultivation.
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Maggi Young on January 13, 2010, 10:32:54 PM
Kenneth, these forms of C. goeringii are just beautiful. Every time I see one of these plants I think it is time I bought some. I love the scale of the plants and the colours  you are showing are exquisite.
Is only one form on your sales list?
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 13, 2010, 10:47:26 PM
Maggi,


The forms I have shown here are, and this certainly for European norms, exquisite and hard to near impossible to come by!
These plants are my favourites in the greenhouse.

I've added a series of plants purchased 2 years ago from a Japanes grower at the International Peterborough Orchid Show then. Although he was asking what seemed hefty prices for them they should be good. One of them flowered last spring and it caused quite a stir within the tiny group of species Cymbidiums "addicts", flowers were as promised in the photograph, not as brightly coloured but this is partially influenced by your cultural skills and partially influenced of course by the photographer, background and post-editing skills ;D
The flowers were meant to be green with some white and orange and yes, not a vibrant orange, but still within limits... It has a single bud again so I hope that in 1 or 2 months time I can take a picture (forgot to do it last year). The other 4 plants I bought have not flowered yet :(

One day I want to get my hands on good red/orangy coloured ones, but I know these will be very expensive.


As far as I know plants when offered within Europe, like the one listed in our catalogue, will be the more normal colour type.
Either green flowers or more likely similar to this clone:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSCN5547 [640x480].JPG)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Maggi Young on January 13, 2010, 10:52:14 PM
Intersting information to go with these beauties, Kenneth, thank you.
I imagined that these were very special plants that you are treating us to see. How exciting to have such variety.
I am sure I will not  be the only person who will love to see more flowers as the season progresses!
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 13, 2010, 10:58:40 PM
I've hijacked this post anyway so I'll give some advice on culture.

As said before Cymbidium goeringii and kanran are 100% cool/cold growing. Some say hardy, other will say near hardy, no doubt much will depend on your clone (!). Remember that Cymbidium goeringii is quite widespread.
In our experience and also based on information from books etc Cymbidium ensifolium and sinense are warmer growing.

Remember that these "chinese" cymbidium prefer to be grown in tall, slender pots! This is, in my opinion, key for successful culture.
One of these plants grown in a normal height pot will quickly lift itself up, thereby exposing the roots and once the roots are exposed the plant will grow less vigourously as the roots cannot take up as much water and they are more exposed to dry conditions.
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 13, 2010, 11:06:42 PM
This is, when it comes to form and colour for me the best green Cymbidium goeringii in our entire collection:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSCN7439 [640x480].jpg)

and a close up:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSCN7460 [640x480].jpg)

One thing to note is that not all flowerspikes grow above the level of the leaves... some will get stuck down at the base, halfway... I'm not sure why it does that.

One thing I do know is that in Japan the real addicts place tinfoil tubes on top of emerging spikes in order to fool them that they are still below ground and that the spike has to continue growing still... clever trick!
Maybe one day I'll try it as well ;)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 13, 2010, 11:19:45 PM
I've waded through my folders with unsorted digital photographs and I guess I've pretty much found all archived pictures of Cymbidium goeringii.

A final one, Cymbidium goeringii "Biji":

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSCN5837 [640x480].JPG)


Tomorrow if I find the time I'll take some pictures of the Cymbidium sinense forms in flower (including some variegated ones).


kind regards,

Kenneth.
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Maggi Young on January 13, 2010, 11:26:07 PM
Kenneth, this is wonderful! Thanks again!
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Joakim B on January 14, 2010, 10:38:58 AM
Great photos of unusual plants 8) (for Europeans at least). ::) Only seen things like that on web pages that I can not read and with strange google translation.
I doubt that anyone think it is hijacking to add great pictures to a relevant thread. Nice to see species of Cymbidium. Here in Portugal we grow a lot of the hybrids since they are hardy outside for us. Some in the orchid society also grow species but I have not got any yet, only primary hybrids or pants that look "wild".

Hope to see more.
Kind regards
Joakim
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Darren on January 14, 2010, 10:40:30 AM
Wonderful Kenneth!

You have not hijacked the thread at all. I started it in the hope that more information about these plants, and pictures, would be forthcoming. Both the plants and the info are in short supply. The thread has therefore achieved it's purpose thanks to yourself and I for one am very grateful for your posts. Please continue!

Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: ranunculus on January 14, 2010, 10:42:00 AM

or pants that look "wild".


Now these we have GOT to see, Joakim!!!    ;D
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Joakim B on January 14, 2010, 11:12:25 AM
Cliff since this is a site with some limits I dare not show the "wild" pants in public. Maybe People will not think of them as wild and I will be disapointed so I dare not ::) :-*.
Hopfully I can show some wild looking plants later when they come into flower later this year.
Kind regards
Joakim
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 14, 2010, 10:44:48 PM
So here are the Cymbidium sinense in flower at the moment:

Cymbidium sinense "009" (I lost the clone name for now, need to look it up in a file) with 4 spikes:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSC_2691 [640x480].JPG)

and a close up:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSC_2695 [640x480].JPG)

This is actually one of the best "growers" within the collection.
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 14, 2010, 10:46:02 PM
Cymbidium sinense "Da Shi Men" one of the variegated leave clone:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSC_2677 [640x480].JPG)

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSC_2679 [640x480].JPG)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 14, 2010, 10:47:26 PM
Cymbidium sinense "Fei Cui Yu, another variegated leave one:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSC_2697 [640x480].JPG)

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSC_2698 [640x480].JPG)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 14, 2010, 10:51:18 PM
Cymbidium sinense "Jin Ru Yi":

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSC_2701 [640x480].JPG)

and a close up of the flower:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSC_2704 [640x480].JPG)


Here you get a good view of a tall & slender pot. The pot shown here has a height of 21 cm and a width of 7 cm.
These were originally sourced from the US (yes the expensive way because we needed them fast: air freight). Nowadays we have sourced tall slender pot locally: 18 cm high x 7 cm wide and 21 cm high x  9  cm wide.

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSC_2705 [640x480].JPG)

This plant will need to be repotted soon as the plant is potbound, they do like that but they need to be able to push new growths somewhere in that pot as well  :)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: KBruyninckx on January 14, 2010, 10:53:37 PM
Cymbidium sinense "Tai Ping Yang" the last one for this session today:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSC_2707 [640x480].JPG)


Closeup of the variegation on the leaves of this clone:

(http://www.akerne-orchids.com/forum/DSC_2710 [640x480].JPG)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Hristo on January 15, 2010, 06:35:09 AM
Kenneth, great Orchids, any chance you could post some of your Masdevallias and Draculas in the Pleurothallid thread?
Cheers
Chris
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: luis on January 22, 2010, 06:14:16 PM
Hi, i'm new here. My name is Luis from Portugal. I have some chinese cymbidiums too. Some are near to bloom. Wen they do it i will post my photos. Thank's by all this precious informations!!! ;)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Maggi Young on January 22, 2010, 06:25:25 PM
Hi, Luis, very good to have you join us here! So far only a few Forumists from Portugal, so you are most welcome! 8)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 22, 2010, 06:32:39 PM
Kenneth, your contributions to this thread are exquisite - the photographs show each Cymbidium in such a way that it is so clear as to feel one is right there and the detail is wonderful - I love these plants for their unusual colouring and exotic form.  Please show us some more and tell us about them  :)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Ragged Robin on January 22, 2010, 06:35:12 PM
Welcome Luis, looking forward to seeing your Chinese Cymbidium in flower  8)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: luis on January 22, 2010, 07:59:27 PM
My chinese cymbidium list is: Cymbidium ensifolium cv.Baodao Xiann; Cymbidium ensifolium cv.Fu Shan Qi Die; Cymbidium ensifolium cv.Jin He; Cymbidium ensifolium cv.Sa Mo Jin; Cymbidium fioribundum var. pumilum; Cymbidium goeringii cv Tiancao; Cymbidium goeringii v albino Zhang He Su; Cymbidium lianpan cv.albino'Xiao Xue Su';  Cymbidium lianpan cv.'Chun Lei'; and Cymbidium sinense cv.Tao Ji.  :P

Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: VIEIRA on January 22, 2010, 08:54:42 PM
Welcome Luis :D
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Joakim B on January 22, 2010, 09:52:33 PM
Welcome and a very nice list so hope to hear more about them when they flower.

Kind regards
Joakim
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: luis on January 24, 2010, 06:07:32 PM
Thank you for all the support, and specially for my Portuguese brothers! ;)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: luis on January 26, 2010, 11:54:34 AM
There are in this moment fantástic chinese cymbidiums, pleiones and cypripediums from China in Ebay!!! :o
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Maggi Young on January 26, 2010, 11:59:20 AM
Luis, I would urge extreme caution in the area of orchids like that on Ebay: they are most unlikely to comply with any international CITES regulations and as such be classed as contraband!
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: luis on January 26, 2010, 12:16:56 PM
I buy from one seller that have certificate... ???
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Maggi Young on January 26, 2010, 12:51:25 PM
I buy from one seller that have certificate...

Excellent, that is good news....  
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: Eric Locke on January 26, 2010, 07:26:25 PM

Items from China are NOT being sold with the proper paperwork !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Eric
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: luis on March 08, 2010, 10:28:23 AM
Here they are some of my chinese cymbidiums in flower bud. I hope you like!  ;)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: littleowl on March 29, 2010, 12:50:17 AM
Here are pictures of my two plants, one flower early this year and the other flowering now:

Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: luis on March 29, 2010, 10:39:29 AM
They are fantástic! Congrattulations!!! ;)
Title: Re: Chinese Cymbidium
Post by: luis on April 11, 2010, 03:15:51 PM
Finally my chinese cymb. I hope all of you like it, and sorry for the bad photos.  :-[  ;)
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