Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: Robert G on December 30, 2009, 12:52:36 PM
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EDIT BY MAGGI : THIS THREAD BEGAN AS ROBERT SOUGHT A SOURCE FOR SALIX LANATA IN CANADA AND MOVED ON TO A DISCUSSION OF OTHER SALIX... HERE IS A NEW THREAD FOR THAT....... includes all the source stuff, too!
Robert G :
Hi Everyone,
I am looking for a Canadian source for this plant, either a nursery or exchange. I was hoping some of the Canadian forumists could help with that, but more importantly I am seeking input regarding Salix lantana as a garden plant. Input can cross borders freely, plant material not as easy. There are some nice descriptions floating around out there, but I value the forums collective experience. I am also interested in hearing about any small Salix out there.
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Robert, I am not aware of the species Salix lantana..... I am, however, acquainted with Salix lanata...... could it be you have made a typing mistake ?
Salix lanata, the wooly willow, as it is sometimes known, is a pretty thing, quite low growing..... and capable of taking over large counties in a short time!
i have heard of supposedly shorter growing cultivars, but whether they are less invasive or not, I cannot say.
Depending on the space you have available, this may not be a problem y to you.... if you are looking f or a cute willow for an "average" rock garden then steer clear of S. lanata is my strong advice.
Salix hylematica is more dwarf, ground hugging and here in Aberdeen makes more, very pretty catkins....still quite spreading but altogether neater and slower.
Salix herbacea is very tiny, though lacks the furry leaves of lanata, but is really a nice little plant.... charming plant.
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I had no idea there was such variety in salix.
What did we do before google?
Maggi, found this site while googling your suggestions.
http://www.wondertree.co.uk/willow_nursery.html
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Robert
Alpines Mt. Echo in Quebec carried it but they have closed. Maria, the owner, will be attending a few NARGS sales to clear out the remaining stock. Your might catch her at the next NARGS eastern Winter Study weekend, or have someone going pick one up for you. Having said that it might be tricky getting it inspected for return; and there's a chance she can't get Salix into the US to sell. She had some good selected forms of it. I think Murray's Horticultural in Portugal Cove just outside St. John's (did I not post a shot of one???) had some last time I was there but they can't ship soil of of NL, they may have sent propagations to an Ontario nursery though.
johnw
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Maggi,
You are right about the spelling error, of course. It is good to know that it can take over. I have seen the words 'slow growing' twice to describe. This info is what I was hoping for. Thank you for that and the other suggestions.
Helen,
I love that link.
John,
I was going to get some salix from Maria this coming spring and then I got her general email about the closing. A few years ago someone mentioned a 'Willow Guy' that sold/specialized in salix out east. Does that ring a bell? Thank for the help.
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Robert, I should have given you an idea of size...... grew to around 1.4m high by 3 or 4 m across in less than ten years!
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Salix hylematica is more dwarf, ground hugging and here in Aberdeen makes more, very pretty catkins....still quite spreading but altogether neater and slower.
I do like Salix hylematica, although once it is happy and gets going, it can really spread. I tried to find a photo of it flower when covered with cute little reddish catkins but couldn't find one in a cursory search, but did find two views taken this year, one in June and one in late October just before the willow's leaves turn yellow. It has aggressively spread into a garden path... this year I frequently walked on it, seeing if it can stand up to foot traffic. What's hard to capture in the photos, are the shiny little green leaves along red stems, making for a delightful low mat-forming willow for all season, just give it enough space and keep it away from anything really choice. See Maggi, you thought I only grow alliums ;)
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That looks like a 'must have', Mark.
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John,
I was going to get some salix from Maria this coming spring and then I got her general email about the closing. A few years ago someone mentioned a 'Willow Guy' that sold/specialized in salix out east. Does that ring a bell? Thank for the help.
Maria would be your best bet. The willow at Murray's was candida and I think some went to Sheridan's. Maybe try Rick Lupp at Mt. Tahoma Nursery.
Hmm, no willow guy out this way that I know, Maria would be the one to ask but she's in Ecuador right now (back in 3 weeks). Have a few others here but not lanata.
johnw
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Salix hylematica is more dwarf, ground hugging and here in Aberdeen makes more, very pretty catkins....still quite spreading but altogether neater and slower.
I do like Salix hylematica, although once it is happy and gets going, it can really spread. I tried to find a photo of it flower when covered with cute little reddish catkins but couldn't find one in a cursory search, but did find two views taken this year, one in June and one in late October just before the willow's leaves turn yellow. It has aggressively spread into a garden path... this year I frequently walked on it, seeing if it can stand up to foot traffic. What's hard to capture in the photos, are the shiny little green leaves along red stems, making for a delightful low mat-forming willow for all season, just give it enough space and keep it away from anything really choice. See Maggi, you thought I only grow alliums ;)
Mark - Is it bone hardy with you? It seems so be somewhat okay here in NS in the ground on the coast but less hardy in a container. I get a lot of die-back on mine which is planted on the edge of a trough.
johnw
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while we are on the subject, any sources of seed of any of the mat forming alpine willows? i really loved those i saw in the mountains this year, but all in parks, so no cuttings, i might have snitched a seedpod if there were lots, but none seen at all the time i was there....
i think beavercreek has listed some species as plants, but havent seen seed anywhere.. i assume wrightmans has a couple of species as well...
as to 'willow guy' the only thing that springs to mind is a place in b.c. specialising in willows and grasses, but i dont think he had any of the miniatures, last i looked..
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Mark - Is it bone hardy with you? It seems so be somewhat okay here in NS in the ground on the coast but less hardy in a container. I get a lot of die-back on mine which is planted on the edge of a trough.
johnw
Yup, bone hardy here. Maybe it is more sensitive in a trough, being more exposed and the roots freezing more deeply? In my setting, it has vigorously rooted into the pine bark mulch I use on garden pathways. I've had this for 20+ years.
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Salix Boydii and Salix reticulata are also good willows ideal for a trough. Don't know about hardiness.
Susan
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Surely both should be tough as old boots? Isn't S. reticulata an Arctic species? and wasn't S. x Boydii found in the far north of Scotland?
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Salix Boydii and Salix reticulata are also good willows ideal for a trough. Don't know about hardiness.
Susan
Both hardy here.
johnw
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Cohan,
You are talking about www.bluestem.ca and you are right the focus is the larger salix. Also if you can get cuttings I would, salix seed is very short lived and often not viable.
Mark,
Your photo and hardiness confirmation has definitely made sure that Salix hylematica is added to my list. Thank you.
John,
Do you know if Maria's mont echo email still good? I know here site is closed. I was going to leave her a message in hopes that she still has some and would be willing to part with them. She is only three hours away. It is too bad, both her and Kristl were the best part of an annual 'rare and unusual plant sale' here. I suspect it will not be anywhere as rare or unusual this coming year. It is good to here S. x boydi is hardy for you, my odds are improved.
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Cohan,
You are talking about www.bluestem.ca and you are right the focus is the larger salix. Also if you can get cuttings I would, salix seed is very short lived and often not viable.
hmm, maybe that's why no one has seed listed? although i see lots of other shortlived seed on lists... there is still certainly enough viability of seed for them to spread very widely in nature, but of course it needn't be a high percentage if there are thousands of seeds blowing about.. i wouldnt mind either if i got only a few plants from a pod or two!
bluestem sounds right, i was digging in my favourites list, but didnt come up with it when i was posting yesterday..
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Salix hylematica may be around as S. furcata.
Salix seed doesn't come in pods, the mature catkins just disintegrate and shed the finest of fluff. Although there must be billions released, one is never conscious of the seed in the atmosphere as one is, for example, of thistledown.
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It is good to here S. x boydi is hardy for you, my odds are improved.
Robert - As mentioned before - maybe last year - there is very big x boydii at Les Jardins de Métis in the Gaspé where it gets very cold. It must be 60 years old. I don't know if it can take summer heat & humidity but sure worth every effort.
Rain, snow, rain, snow, rain, snow in the forecast, starting tomorrow and ending Tuesday morning. Winter in Canada. Roads forecast to be treacherous.
johnw
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Salix seed doesn't come in pods, the mature catkins just disintegrate and shed the finest of fluff. Although there must be billions released, one is never conscious of the seed in the atmosphere as one is, for example, of thistledown.
i know pod isnt really a good word, as in closed, or hard, i just think of them as pods, since, on the local species which are everywhere here, it seems to be kind of a big wooly lump..i havent seen the fruit on any of the arctic/alpine species;
i checked my wildflower book to see what might be a better term for willow fruit, the term they use is capsule!
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Rain, snow, rain, snow, rain, snow in the forecast, starting tomorrow and ending Tuesday morning. Winter in Canada. Roads forecast to be treacherous.
johnw
Ours doesn't stop until Thursday :'(
I read today that some guy is calling it the storm of the decade, I sure hope he's wrong!!
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I've discovered just today that Salix x Boydii will NOT TOLERATE PROLONGED DRY PERIODS. My 60 year old plant (I was given it when it was at least 30), has died!!! I've done my best to drown it and I'll leave it in case there is some regeneration at the base, but I'm not hopeful.
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I've discovered just today that Salix x Boydii will NOT TOLERATE PROLONGED DRY PERIODS. My 60 year old plant (I was given it when it was at least 30), has died!!! I've done my best to drown it and I'll leave it in case there is some regeneration at the base, but I'm not hopeful.
Sad news Lesley. Hopefully it will sprout from the base. Sixty is just too young.
johnw
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Good luck with the Salix x Boydii, Lesley. :'(
I hope you get some regeneration.
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Looking trough my database of photos taken in my rockgarden in 2009, I found a few salix species
that are creeping and slow-growing: salix alpina from the Tatra, salix nivalis ssp nivalis from the Rockies,
salix retusa var. serpyllifolia from S-Europe, salix uva-ursi from Newfoundland & Greenland and the natural
hybrid salix reticulata x herbacea from the Tatra.
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Luc,
They all look so positively well-behaved.
S. hylematica, here, once covered several square metres before I brought it back into control.
Paddy
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Until these SRGC forums, I'd never even heard of dwarf groundcover Salix species. Amazing things you learn here. I'd imagine that some here in Aus would have these, but not something I recall ever seeing on a list (although whether I would have noticed before, or just tuned them out as trees/shrubs, is entirely debatable. ;D).
They look rather cool. Thanks for opening new horizons everyone. 8)
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Until these SRGC forums, I'd never even heard of dwarf groundcover Salix species. Amazing things you learn here. I'd imagine that some here in Aus would have these, but not something I recall ever seeing on a list (although whether I would have noticed before, or just tuned them out as trees/shrubs, is entirely debatable. ;D).
They look rather cool. Thanks for opening new horizons everyone. 8)
I couldn't agree more, Paul!! ;D
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LusS-thanks for those--i like every one of them :)
here you can see some of the willows that i saw in the mountains this summer, i don't have any more than tentative ids for any of them..
i'm especially fascinated with those that are completely flat in habitat, though i dont know if they stay so flat in the garden?
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3923.60
reply #67, pic 5 --this is a low bush, not flat..
reply #72 has a couple of species, the super flat-reticulata? and a slightly taller (just a few inches) species with different leaves...this is just below the columbia icefield, below the tree line, but not by too much..
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Salix Boydii and Salix reticulata are also good willows ideal for a trough. Don't know about hardiness.
Susan
Both hardy here.
johnw
Even more telling, both are hardy here. The latter is a native alpine.
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Lori,
Your response is even more telling for me. If you can do so should I. Thank you.
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Going through my photos, I finally found a photo of Salix hylematica in flower. The photo gives sort of an optical illusion looking like it is sideways, by it is indeed right side up. The trailing branches are cascading over a boulder.
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Going through my photos, I finally found a photo of Salix hylematica in flower. The photo gives sort of an optical illusion looking like it is sideways, by it is indeed right side up. The trailing branches are cascading over a boulder.
oops, forgot to upload the photo...
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Mark,
That is a great photo!
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Mark,
That is a great photo!
And a great plant ;D
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Here's another dwarf Salix, Salix vestita growing at the Oxen Pond Botanic Garden in St John's, NL.
It's important to find truly dwarf ones as we saw some as high as a meter of more on Newfoundland's west coast.
johnw
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Here's another dwarf Salix, Salix vestita growing at the Oxen Pond Botanic Garden in St John's, NL.
It's important to find truly dwarf ones as we saw some as high as a meter of more on Newfoundland's west coast.
johnw
That's a real beauty, small but with some structure to it.
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What are the root systems like on these dwarf/miniature salix?
Are they tiny on top with monster roots?
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Yes Helen, they do have large and congested root systems, as do all willows. I remember in my youth and beginnings as a rock gardener, a local nurserywoman used to dig and use for potting, willow root from a local river bank. She carted the blocks home like peat blocks and put them through a shredding machine then used the chopped stuff instead of peat for all her ericaceous plants. Rhodos loved it and it didn't break down and disappear the way peat does.
One species I'd give my teeth for, is S. cascadensis which I assume comes from the Pacific NW of America. I've only ever seen a photo but the flat plant had very large pink catkins, for all the world like the bottlebrush, Callistemon.
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Thanks Lesley, I have a septic field in my yard so I need to be careful.
Maybe I best move the Hakuro Nishi I have planted in the middle of it.
Good luck finding a S. cascadensis, I can't even find a pic of it.
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Thanks Lesley, I have a septic field in my yard so I need to be careful.
Maybe I best move the Hakuro Nishi I have planted in the middle of it.
Good luck finding a S. cascadensis, I can't even find a pic of it.
Hi Helen,
Here two photo links, neither is very good, but better than nothing. On the first one, give it some time, the photo does come in.
http://fieldguide.mt.gov/detail_PDSAL020N0.aspx
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/124605.html
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I found a couple of pics by Googling but neither was like the one in my mind. I think the original I saw was in a talk many years ago. Could even have been at "Alpines '81" but I'm not sure now. But the one in your links Mark, looks like a good plant.
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Thanks for the links, Mark.
It really does look like Callistemon flowers, Lesley.
A real cutie.
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I found a couple of pics by Googling but neither was like the one in my mind. I think the original I saw was in a talk many years ago. Could even have been at "Alpines '81" but I'm not sure now. But the one in your links Mark, looks like a good plant.
I remember seeing some photos of Salix cordifolia, both male and female forms, both are wonderful but one with yellow flowers and one with amazing pink flowers. I had actually downloaded them, but didn't create a text file with the url and credentials. Now, whenever I download a web photo of a plant for my own personal interest, I also create a text file with the pertinent info and a url to the original photo, for future use. I could be wrong, my craggy memory gone awry, but I thought these marvelous photos were from John Weagle. We should ask him. I don't feel that I can display them here without the originator's permission.
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Yes Helen, they do have large and congested root systems, as do all willows. I remember in my youth and beginnings as a rock gardener, a local nurserywoman used to dig and use for potting, willow root from a local river bank. She carted the blocks home like peat blocks and put them through a shredding machine then used the chopped stuff instead of peat for all her ericaceous plants. Rhodos loved it and it didn't break down and disappear the way peat does.
now that is fascinating! there are large areas of willows here; of course often there would be some peaty soil around them, though other times its probably mostly decomposed grasses; these low areas in any case have a totally different soil than even heavily wooded spots often not far from them: black/brown and humusy compared to our typical grey clayey soils...
i wonder if unshredded the root bits would sprout new willows?
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Love that Salix vestita.
Can recommend S. nakamurana var yesoalpina, which resembles a big version of reticulata. It needs watching though as it is a spreader. I think I got mine from Ian Christie and recall seeing a nicely mounded plant on his nursery. I suspect it was nicely mounded because of frequent removal of cuttings and I'm trying to do the same with ours. I'll post a pic later.
We could do with a dwarf Salix thread perhaps, unless I'm missing one elsewhere?
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John W verified it was not him that posted photos of Salix cordifolia. So, let me apologize in advance to whomever took the following wonderful close-up photos of Salix cordifolia plus one photo of a female form of Salix uva-ursi; they are shown here in the spirit of sharing and furthering our knowledge of dwarf Salix, would be very happy to give proper accreditation for the original poster and photographer. Also, my memory did not serve me correctly, apparently both the typical yellow flowered form of S. cordifolia and the pink form are both male.
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We could do with a dwarf Salix thread perhaps, unless I'm missing one elsewhere?
Good suggestion Darren, otherwise it's not obvious from the subject title that people are talking about all kinds of good dwarf Salix.
Can recommend S. nakamurana var yesoalpina, which resembles a big version of reticulata. It needs watching though as it is a spreader.
I've grown this for many years, although not sure if any of it is still alive, I had it in a quasi-abandoned part of the yard that is too far for my water hoses to reach. Originally it was known as S. yezoalpina. Google "Salix yezoalpina" and you'll get a ton of hits, seems a favorite among nursery growers. As you say, it needs watching, or put it someplace where it can spread a couple meters, although only about 30-45 cm tall. The bold fuzzy foliage and yellow catkins are attractive. It could also be used for an intriguing bonsai.
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You will see I have moved this thread and changed its name..... I have reposted Robert's original query in the plants wanted section, also.
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If anyone finds a UK source for S. vestita let me know.
This is my S. reticulata
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If anyone finds a UK source for S. vestita let me know.
This is my S. reticulata
Wonderful Mark!
johnw
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If anyone finds a UK source for S. vestita let me know.
This is my S. reticulata
Mark, I'm not sure why anyone would want to grow such a willow-weed ;-)
A stunning species and lovely shot. The red catkins shown off nicely by the Polygala I spy nearby.
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Beautiful plant and planting, Mark!
The upper leaf surfaces seem amazingly hairy for Salix reticulata, no? Descriptions, and the plants I see in the mountains here, which I assume to be S. reticulata , have the upper leaf surface as glabrous and shiny... ?
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Mark if S. vestita stays small I would grow it in a trough. The Polygala flowers well every year even though is has yellowing leaves.
My S. reticulata has very hairy leaves when they first open. Here it is in March this year
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Beautiful plant and planting, Mark!
The upper leaf surfaces seem amazingly hairy for Salix reticulata, no? Descriptions, and the plants I see in the mountains here, which I assume to be S. reticulata , have the upper leaf surface as glabrous and shiny... ?
Checking the Hulten's Flora of Alaska, there are 56 Salix species described, most having 2 or more subspecies described, more than half the species are dwarf. For S. reticulata ssp. reticulata, it is described as "leaves extremely variable in form and pubescence". Also described is S. reticulata var. gigantifolia (leaves 5 cm in diameter), f. villosa (pubescent on both sides with long, silky, white hairs), var. semicalva (glabrous on both sides), ssp. orbicularis (leaves more rounded to cordate, glabrous or nearly so, glabrous petioles and stems), and ssp. glabellicarpa (possibly a hybrid, glabrous or partly pubescent capsules). So... it's variable! :o
Interestingly, most species described are circumpolar to some extent. The text indicates lots of introgression and hybridization among "species". The one I'd like to see, is S. tschuktschorum (syn. S. berberifolia), that has shiny holly-like spinulose leaves.
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if they do Cohan, especially those species that make suckers freely. There's no doubt that willows are wonder riverbank binders and whereever a line of willows can be seen in the NZ landscape (none are natives of course) you can be sure there's a river wending its way alongside.
By all means ask John W about his photos, thought the one I saw certainly wasn't his, much too long ago.
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Sorry, I totally missed tis second page before the last note.
The pink catkins on S. cordifolia are really superb and closer to what I remember of S. cascadensis, though its catkins, presumably male, were taller, wider and deeper red. Or perhaps it's just an aging brain remembering through rose-tinted spectacles. There's a nice mixed metaphor!
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Beautiful plant and photographs, Mark.
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Beautiful plant and photographs, Mark.
As I hoped to make clear, I cannot take credit for the photographs, they're not mine. :-*
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Beautiful plant and photographs, Mark.
As I hoped to make clear, I cannot take credit for the photographs, they're not mine. :-*
TWO MARKS INVOLVED HERE, FOLKS!!
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Beautiful plant and photographs, Mark.
As I hoped to make clear, I cannot take credit for the photographs, they're not mine. :-*
TWO MARKS INVOLVED HERE, FOLKS!!
Maybe start using Mark M and Mark S? Or address me as my Mom would, with her New England accent where "rrrs" don't exist... Mahk.
I'll try to be more observant before posting :-)
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Mark S is OK with me.
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Mark S is OK with me.
Darn, I was hoping you would opt for Smiffy! :D
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I'm known by various names over here DJ, Mark One, Marcus, Birdie, Birdman and others
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Sorry Mcmark, I should have been more specific and named the plant. :-[
I was referring to the beautiful S. reticulata photos. :)
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Sorry Mcmark, I should have been more specific and named the plant. :-[
I was referring to the beautiful S. reticulata photos. :)
No problem Helen (or do you ever go by something akin to your login name, like Maggie?).
I like McMark, that's cool ;D
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I'm known by various names over here DJ, Mark One, Marcus, Birdie, Birdman and others
How about Elvismark? I must say, now that I'm becoming seriously follicly challenged (alt: follically), I'm becoming envious of guys with masses of magnificent Elvis like hair (as in your profile pic) or those that are well-endowed (follically of course) in general.
After 3 months of unemployment, I've had but one 20-minute telephone interview for a postion that pays 55% of what I was making. Still waiting to hear. Accordingly, I was thinking of adopting the nickname of Markdown, or maybe BOGO :'(
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No problem Helen (or do you ever go by something akin to your login name, like Maggie?).
I like McMark, that's cool ;D
Helen , maggie, either is fine.
The maggiepie comes from my footie team, the collingwood magpies ;D
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if they do Cohan, especially those species that make suckers freely. There's no doubt that willows are wonder riverbank binders and whereever a line of willows can be seen in the NZ landscape (none are natives of course) you can be sure there's a river wending its way alongside.
not much around here for rivers (immediate area, i mean, there are of course rivers and streams in the region-10-20 miles away in any given direction) but lots of various kinds of wetlands--we call them all 'sloughs' here, but none involve running water much, except in spring! plenty of willows, all of the multiple thin trunk types,older trunks tending to fall over when beyond 4 or 5 metres if they live that long..
have to get higher up though to see the real small species..
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That Salix reticulata is lovely Mark. It is one of my favourites and mine is currently in a pot as I'm struggling to find a place in this garden that really suits it. It was tending to drop it's leaves in mid summer as I think it wanted to be in a cooler spot. S herbacea does the same.
A few years ago at the spring shows Ron McBeath (I think) had a great range of UK native little willows for sale, which I think had come from material gathered for a research project. My wallet suffered!
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I like McMark, that's cool
Yes, that has quite a ring to it! Let's go with that! 8)
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In according to the book "Shrubs of Ontario "Salix Lanata is native to the Hudson Bay and James Bay area
We use to grow it but lost it some how. A friend of mine has it in her garden and I'm taking some cuttings from it this winter and hope to get it back in the system. It is a lovely plant and in my friends garden it is contained in her rock garden.
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Darren my Salix is in in full sun, when it shines, from 10am to 6pm-ish. When I remove the hedge it will get sun until sunset.
Maybe I'll show a photos of what my hair looks like? 10 months to 50 and I have a full head of hair
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Maybe I'll show a photos of what my hair looks like? 10 months to 50 and I have a full head of hair
It's the black stuff growing out of your head, Mark...... ???
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Here is Salix (nakamurana var) yezoalpina. The leaves are 5cm long at maturity. As I said - sort of a giant version of reticulata. But rather more rampant....
Mark - interesting that you grow reticulata in full sun. It didn;t like it here. I wonder if my clone is of more arctic provenance! I did once inherit some imported arctic turf left over from an experiment at work and from this I rescued several dwarf shrubs (empetrum, betula nana, Salix herbacea). None of those clones survived the first hot summer whereas nursery clones of each are a little more tolerant! Though S herbacea isn't too keen.
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S. yezoalpina is beautiful Darren. What a wonderful variety there is the the catkins of various species, white, cream, yellow, pink and red, even black.
Mark, watch out for your full head of hair. After this hard winter the birds will be after it for nesting material. They pluck wool from sheep's backs here, and take the shed hairs from Cain and Teddy. It could be a painful experience for you. ;D
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Here is Salix (nakamurana var) yezoalpina. The leaves are 5cm long at maturity. As I said - sort of a giant version of reticulata. But rather more rampant....
Mark - interesting that you grow reticulata in full sun. It didn;t like it here. I wonder if my clone is of more arctic provenance! I did once inherit some imported arctic turf left over from an experiment at work and from this I rescued several dwarf shrubs (empetrum, betula nana, Salix herbacea). None of those clones survived the first hot summer whereas nursery clones of each are a little more tolerant! Though S herbacea isn't too keen.
another nice one! i could see myself having a bunch of these--i really love the totally flat ones, but i can even manage those that are a couple of feet or more high and spread--if they want some square metres i can give it to them :)
i have one that i grew from a cutting somewhere in the mts of alberta or b.c. when i was a teen, its one of the few things that survived in my rock garden while i was away a couple of decades-with competition from natives forbs and grasses it spread very slightly and grew to maybe a little over a metre high; not a really exquisite sp, but a useful size in the landscape..
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Checking the Hulten's Flora of Alaska, there are 56 Salix species described, most having 2 or more subspecies described, more than half the species are dwarf. For S. reticulata ssp. reticulata, it is described as "leaves extremely variable in form and pubescence". Also described is S. reticulata var. gigantifolia (leaves 5 cm in diameter), f. villosa (pubescent on both sides with long, silky, white hairs), var. semicalva (glabrous on both sides), ssp. orbicularis (leaves more rounded to cordate, glabrous or nearly so, glabrous petioles and stems), and ssp. glabellicarpa (possibly a hybrid, glabrous or partly pubescent capsules). So... it's variable! :o
Interestingly, most species described are circumpolar to some extent. The text indicates lots of introgression and hybridization among "species". The one I'd like to see, is S. tschuktschorum (syn. S. berberifolia), that has shiny holly-like spinulose leaves.
Thanks for the info, Mark. Yes, 35 species of native willows here apparently (including S. lanata, which is circumpolar), with 13 of those described as either "dwarf" or under a meter... (most of ours probably also found in Alaska, as a guess.)
We have S. reticulata ssp. nivalis and ssp. reticulata (rare), on which only the lower surfaces of the leaves are said to be hairy, so that explains the difference between the ones I see in the mountains here and Mark's wonderfully furry plant.
So, willow experts, any guesses as to the ID of this one that I saw in the nearby eastern slope Rockies alpine zone last summer? It's a very tiny-leaved one. The ring, added for scale, is 16mm in diameter. I'd guess, from the leaf size, S. vestita... ????
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If it is indeed what it's thought to be, it seems this one should stay low to the ground (?)... Salix cf. kurilensis. I've only had this for a couple of years - the fuzzy leaves, yellow catkins (with orange pollen) and the fact that it's already been much more willing to bloom than my other willows, seem promising. Does anyone grow it?
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Lori,
I don't grow it, but I wish I did. Beautiful plant. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get it?
Robert
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From Wrightman's, Robert.
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Thank you for that Lori. They don't have it listed this year, but a couple nice little Salix are listed.
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Thank you for that Lori. They don't have it listed this year, but a couple nice little Salix are listed.
never hurts to ask, sometimes a grower might still have a few of something even if not enough to list currently...
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It is sometimes good to be in Alps in October , as you can get salix seeds, see below. The problem is that as far as I know, they loose germinability very quickly. So far I had no success with salix seeds :(, it also true that I didn't pay them any special treatment or attention. I add double colour form I could see this year in France. I took cuttings with me, so spring will show. I prefer cuttings, as it is much faster as well then from seeds.
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It is sometimes good to be in Alps in October , as you can get salix seeds, see below. The problem is that as far as I know, they loose germinability very quickly. So far I had no success with salix seeds :(, it also true that I didn't pay them any special treatment or attention. I add double colour form I could see this year in France. I took cuttings with me, so spring will show. I prefer cuttings, as it is much faster as well then from seeds.
wow-thats a lot of wool!
so far the only ones i have seen are in national parks, so no cuttings! i will have to look more in provincial forestry areas, where there are more possibilities..
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Jiri it would be good to get cuttings from both those forms and grow them together. (In no time, you'll have a small nursery ;D)
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I welcome! Most likely, I will have 3 weeks to look for interesting Salix (June-July 2014). How you think, it will be possible to find something interesting in mountains to the north of Baikal ;)? In the mountain tundra. Probably, there will be recommendations?
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Does anyone know the name of this one? Found it, without label, in Czech garden?
[attachimg=1]
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Looks like Salix hylematica
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Thank you! Now I just have to find out what S hylematica might think about Mariannelund, then. ( And if it is available here in Sweden) Perhaps, if I do find it I can try to speak Scottish to it, to convince it that both me and the environment are very friendly? S x boydii for exampel is still alive after many years, but Hannelotte Kindlund laught out loud the other year when she spotted it, smaller than my smallest finger ( Does the fingers have different names in English, besides thumb and index finger?)
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Anyone out there know where I can find Salix aegyptiaca. Know as the musk willow from Iran.
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I'll have to see if I can't arrange a cutting of S. hylematica for you, Susann.
We call the little finger the "pinky" the third finger is the "ring" finger - I don't think we have anmae for the middle finger- apart from "middle" finger! Funny thing, language!
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Looks like Salix hylematica
Yes the one we called Salix serpyllifolium for years but Juri has posted a pic of a serpyllifolium that looks nothing like this hylematica. I had assumed serp was renamed hylematica??????
Ru - you will surely find some exquisite dwarf Salix near Lake Baikal and dwarf rhodos too.
Does anyone grow S. radinostachya from China? Yunnan I think.
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I'll have to see if I can't arrange a cutting of S. hylematica for you, Susann.
We call the little finger the "pinky" the third finger is the "ring" finger - I don't think we have anmae for the middle finger- apart from "middle" finger! Funny thing, language!
Maggi, wish I could send you some Salix hylematica. This coming spring I will be totally overhauling my overgrown weed-infested "Allium garden", a place that includes some other plantings like Salix hylematica; the Salix is way out of control and spreading many meters wide i all directions. It shall be dug out entirely, and I will engage with a nursery or two to supply bushels of rooted cutting material, and maybe save a piece or two for me to grow in a constricted container.
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Maggi, "tusen tack!". I can then perhaps pick it up in April? It would be more than very nice of you.
johw, you wrote-if I understand you correctly-that you though S serphyllifolium had changed to S hylematica. I grow S serphyllifolium, it is one of my favorites, as are S polaris, S reticulata, S...yes, you now what it is like. A collector likes everything. Anyway, S serphyllifolium has very normal catkins. It least mine. I have it from three different sources, but it can of course be the same clone.
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No need to worry about sending me your excess, McMark! We have a nice S. hylematica sprawling over the side of a raised bed - but there's a lot of stone under it so will need to search for an "Irishman's cutting" - ready rooted.
It was Salix lanata that we had to brutally excavate from the front garden, after it threatened to colonise the whole street.
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Susann - I think our original hylematica came from Alpenglow Gardens in BC back in the early 70's and it was labelled serpyllifolium. It was obviously mis-labelled aserpyllifolium but I had assumed a name change.
Mark - I think the hardiness issue here with hylematica is when it hangs over the edge of a wall or trough, we lose branches every year, gorwing on the ground it is fine.
The Great Northern Peninsula of Newfoundland is one place every Salixophile should visit. Two of my favourites from there - reticulata and vestita..................apologies as I have posted these long ago.
johnw - +1.9c and on the way up.
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Mighty fine Salix specimens there John.
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Mighty fine Salix specimens there John.
re: the S. reticulata I picked photos from good = cool summer years here! ;) That was 2009.
Here's a shot from last June before the worst of the heat struck and after a rampage of cutting-taking.
johnw - +2c @ 22:29
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re: the S. reticulata I picked photos from good = cool summer years here! ;) That was 2009.
Here's a shot from last June before the worst of the heat struck and after a rampage of cutting-taking.
johnw - +2c @ 22:29
I hope you caught the ol sod that stole so many cuttings ;D Actually, it looks good after a "haircut".
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johw, I will remember to keep the hylematica so it will not hang over stones ( But it is so beautiful).
I got two very beautiful -new to me- creeping species from Gerben last spring. I feel very ashamed to mention them, as I have forgotten the names of them. One is from Greenland and one from Finland, I think the latter was a hybrid. One of them was, at least. They did very well in the rockeries, both placed facing north. They increased a lot, but of course, I do not know what they thought about this rainy and warm winter. If they are still alive I will post names and pictures in spring, someone might be interested in them.
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This one, although big, is one of my favorites. I do not know how long I can keep it alive, though, it is no thappy in my area. S moupinense. I have thrown all the bigger species, as S lanata, artica and nakamurana v yezoalpina, away. They got far too big for my garden. But I have kept this one, and S helvetica as it was my first one.
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this one I got as S x simulatrix. Is it correct? I have seen much bigger growing plants labelled simulatrix.
[attachimg=2]
this one came from a Salix collector labelled as S reticulata ssp nivalis?
I also got a cutting from a lanata hybrid some years ago. Unfortunally it did not make it. It had a very nice history. A Swedish man named Svante Turesson saw a nice plant in the Scandinavian mountains. He did not take any cuttings. But he did not forget the plant, and he went back 40 years later to get cuttings.
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Susann - You may have no problems with the S. hylematica in your climate. Here it has gone through the very worst of winters and has never once completely top-killed in a trough. By June one wonders what the problem was.
I am no willow expert but browsing the internet I wonder if that one is straight S. nivalis.
johnw
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Susann mentioned Salix polaris and here is a male and a female plant from Svalbard. The male is more showy in the spring and the female in the fall.
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These tiny willows are most appealing.
Did you enjoy your trip to South America , Hoy?
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Hi Maggi, yes thank you, the trip was very memorable! And I remember! Been busy with other things but hope I'm finished in a few days!
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Beautiful pictures, Hoy! And not mentioning the pictures in the last NARGS´journal! Now I "need" to go to Africa as well. That landscape and strange plants were exactly my taste. Thank you
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very nice. I have a few, most are in the wrong places though.
Are the dwarf ones (like reticulata and some of it's hybrids) easy to root from cuttings? If so, when and how do you take them?
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Mark; I am absolutely no expert, and I am sure that many persons will give you a more correct and detailed answer. But I just take cuttings whenever I remember to, and put them in a long tom with mostly sand, places a plastic bag over it with the opening upwards and exhale some deep breaths into the bag before closing it. ( And water it of course). I put it in the shadow and after three weeks there are good roots. I never water the pots during this period. For me it has worked with all small and also the bigger species. Good luck!
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thanks Susann, I'll give that a try.
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Michael Dodge, a Salix enthusiast writes : "I wondered if any of your members know of an authority on Salix repens cultivars? I have several clones, some of which came labelled as other species (myrtilloides, polaris, retusa!), and I'd love to know what they are.
Thanks again! Michael."
I have asked Michael if he can send photos .