Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Bulbs => Crocus => Topic started by: Tony Willis on December 01, 2009, 12:42:46 PM
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Crocus fleischeri open today after the frost. I see it opened on the 13th January last year.
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Dreadfully early but stunningly beautiful Tony !! :o :o
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By far it is better looking than my plants
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I have raised them from seed and although all are white the purple striping is quite variable.it is a very dainty crocus.
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Excellent form and incredibly early!
Janis
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Tony, very nice! I have Iris bakeriana in flower, also 6-8 weeks early. I do not have much joy with Crocus fleischeri. Do you treat it the same as all your other crocus? Same compost etc?
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Tony it is treated like the rest.I only have one system for them all (except pelistericus and scardicus).Repot each year in John Innes and grit, and water from September until they start to die down and then dry them of for the summer.
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Tony it is treated like the rest.I only have one system for them all (except pelistericus and scardicus).Repot each year in John Innes and grit, and water from September until they start to die down and then dry them of for the summer.
In general I'm doing the same, only some stay during summer in greenhouse, others I'm bringing outside. To scardicus & pelistericus I would add scharojanii. Annual replanting very essential.
Janis
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Tony it is treated like the rest.I only have one system for them all (except pelistericus and scardicus).Repot each year in John Innes and grit, and water from September until they start to die down and then dry them of for the summer.
Thats what I thought you would say. Its what I do too! However I have found C fleischeri shortlived on the few occasions that I have grown it. Must be something in the air ... ???
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This is really nerdy but not only do I know when they flowered last year but also that I collected them in 1994 and my earliest ones are 1992. They are the same plants as I have not sown any seed of them since.
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Not "nerdy" at all Tony, just very thorough!
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Your C. fleischeri is a delight Tony. Mine doesn't have the purple tip markings, just plain white, though I still like it a lot.
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Lesley they are quite variable. Here is a white one which I think is nice.
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This is really nerdy but not only do I know when they flowered last year but also that I collected them in 1994 and my earliest ones are 1992. They are the same plants as I have not sown any seed of them since.
I'm with David - the word is thorough.
I have bulbs raised from seed as long ago as that, so I can keep them going. I am quite proud to have Crocus aleppicus in its 11th season here, quite similar in appearance, rated as tricky to keep happy. Perhaps we are too dry .... after all you do keep reminding us of the constant and copius rainfall in your neck of the woods ::)
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Tony W,
both forms of C. fleischeri are very attractive. 8) Hope mine will flower this season again.
With regards to early growth: C. vernus dutch hybrids and C. chrysanthus cultivars are poking through ground en masse both in raised sandbeds and meadow. In the past years they appeared 4-8wks later...
Amazing, early flowerers like C. ancyrensis 'Golden Bunch', C. korolkowii and C. imperati 'De Jager' show no signs yet.
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I haven't seen any Crocus poking through in the garden as yet.
We did have an extended drought period here though (very little rain from early August till end of September)... could this have been the reason for the start of growth having been later than in other areas ?? ??? ???
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HELP
Something is devestating my Crocus in the bulb house. The individual Crocus have the leaves bitten off at soil level, and there is evidence of digging in the soil. When Tony Willis visited, he thought mice.
I bought 8 traps and placed them around the bulb house. Three had the bait eaten - but the trap was not triggered.
What can I do to protect my Crocus - I have temporarily removed them from the house. The Narcissus, Colchicum and Snowdrops are untouched.
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Arthur
it might be an idea to give people a clue if you put up a picture of the damage which I agree is pretty awful but also might be characteristic of a particular pest.
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Luc,
long period of drought could be the reason. We had plenty of rain >100mm in November.
Arthur,
very regrettable you have a rodent problem. Picture would be good too.
Have you tried poisoned pellets based on Difethialone (brand name Brumolin Ultra) ?
I've heard good results from a neighbour whom's seat cushions stored in a garden cottage have been chewed up by mice.
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Same here. Crocus leaves bitten of at ground level and mice traps plundered but not triggered. Mice droppings everywhere. Very annoying. >:(
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Arthur - Earlier in the Autumn something similar happened here, though on a small scale. I thought it might be an urban squirrel which I had seen running around. The damage stopped before I could decide what to do about it.
For future use I wonder if Armin's poison pellets (or similar) are available in the UK?
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Arthur
it might be an idea to give people a clue if you put up a picture of the damage which I agree is pretty awful but also might be characteristic of a particular pest.
I will wade to the bulb house and take some pictures :)
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Here is th evidence - depth of holes in pots made it difficult to focus. The pile of chewed stems and tunics is but a small sample :(
Now it/they have started on Muscari - first picture shows pot with some leaves remaining - next picture shows chewed leaves on the sand, and the last picture shows a pile of compost dug from the pot.
What I cannot understand is why the Access frame, that is full of plump Crocus in full growth, has been untouched. Probably too wet!!
Any suggestions gratefully received
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Crikey, Art! Horrible scene of criminal damage there!
Almost certainly mice or voles to blame, I think. It is my opinion that modern mouse traps are too easily robbed of the bait without catching the culprits but if voles are the villains then their smaller size may be the bonus they have for adding insult to injury in your bulbhouse.
Squares of weldmesh over the layer of bulbs can help the digging but further methods are needed when there is this shoot damage also.
For my solution you will require some very small guage chicken wire, wire mesh or somesuch and an assortment of bowls .......
I suggest you cut sections of wire mesh and mould these into shape over a bowl (or perhaps a two litre plastic bottle base , this or the bowl to be chosen to match the pot sizes involved).....to make a wee wire dome to fix over the pots to make a physical barrier to keep the chewing animals out . With a bit if thought you can arrange domes to suit the size of the pots and the expected growth size of the foliage within . All quite a bit of bother, but better than the frustration and anger caused by the pesky damage we see in your photos.
PS: I was going to suggest a stern word with Gemma....but I note your comment about wading to the greenhouse to take photos and so I will not expect Gemma Cat to be out in that kind of weather catching grotty rodents!! :)
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Must be rodent. Assume he is comfy and dry, safe from most predators in the greenhouse.
I have mixed feelings about the pawprints in some of my pots but my feline friend does ensure a mouse free greenhouse.
The warmth under glass is the attraction for mog too. At present next doors cat suns himself in the greenhouse, my potting tray is a comfy place. In summer our cat Timmy keeps guard in the Access frame. Touch wood I have been left no calling cards in greenhouse or frames. I do have a dry corner with sand which they frequent, I'm leaving that for a 'litter tray'.
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What do you think is the best bait? One of the traps suggested peanut butter :o
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Peanut butter is good, also raisins. Ian favours the former, while I prefer the latter... we each seem to have better success with our own preferences.... have we got " his and hers " mice, I wonder?
Chocolate is very successful, but strangely there never seems to any of that spare in this house for such purposes.... ::) ;)
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"Cats in the greenhouse" :'( :'( :'( :'( :'("
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"Cats in the greenhouse" :'( :'( :'( :'( :'("
Michael, as I wrote I did think of you - I nearly withheld my comments knowing your (and others) opinions on cats :-[
I must be lucky in that I have had little cause to complain. AND like Art I keep a small quantity of valuable mouse food in a lot of my pots so I welcome the deterrent!
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Not nice at all Arthur definitely looks like mice this is what squirrels do an after and before pic :'(
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Ian
???
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If the bait isnt going could a grey squirrel be getting in? Sadly it does look like mouse damage.
What I'm about to tell you is so cruel. A birdman I know used to have problems with mice that wouldn't tae baiy because of the spilt seed. He got a bucket of water, a ruler and a Mars. The bucket was on the floor, the ruler had a bit of Mars pinned to the end, balanced and .... splash
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Here is th evidence - depth of holes in pots made it difficult to focus. The pile of chewed stems and tunics is but a small sample :(
Now it/they have started on Muscari - first picture shows pot with some leaves remaining - next picture shows chewed leaves on the sand, and the last picture shows a pile of compost dug from the pot.
What I cannot understand is why the Access frame, that is full of plump Crocus in full growth, has been untouched. Probably too wet!!
Any suggestions gratefully received
Almost certainly mice!
Best way to kill them is poison; choose poison based on brodifacoum, flocoumafen, difethialone or difenacoum; poison based on brodifacoum and flocoumafen is probably only accessible for professionals (not in Belgium). It's best to place poison in boxes, so that other non-target animals cannot reach it. It's better to place many boxes (every 2/3 m along the wall) and to use small amounts of poison. Collect dead mice and burn them, so that the risk for secondary poisoning is minimal (cats!!!). After 2/3 weeks you will be mice-free!
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Ian
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Look again Arthur I attached the wrong photo
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Mouse damage in Rhodohypoxis pots bait untouched
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Why does bait disappear but trap isnt sprung?
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Arthur I have a block of pest controller poison I can mail to you
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Arthur I have a block of pest controller poison I can mail to you
Mark
I would very much appreciate that.
I have two traps that are not like the conventional mouse trap - you know the one that cracks your fingers when you try to set it, but catches no mice. These are plastic 'tunnels' with some food at each end. The food is meant to be irresistable to mice AND poisonous. So far they have resisted it for my cheese. ???
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Not nice at all Arthur definitely looks like mice this is what squirrels do an after and before pic :'(
Ian
It looks like squirrels just dig them up for fun - like foxes killing chickens. There is evidence that corms have been eaten.
My problem with squirrels is they plant acorns in several pots - cover them up - and I only discover them in the Spring.
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Hendrik
Thanks for the info -will see what I can obtain.
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Not nice at all Arthur definitely looks like mice this is what squirrels do an after and before pic :'(
Ian
It looks like squirrels just dig them up for fun - like foxes killing chickens. There is evidence that corms have been eaten.
My problem with squirrels is they plant acorns in several pots - cover them up - and I only discover them in the Spring.
Arthur I am afraid they didn't leave much in the way of growing material nearly all of this group of gargaricus were lost :'( I think not all squirrels do this but once an individual gets a taste they can do so much damage.
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Hendrik
Thanks for the info -will see what I can obtain.
With pleasure.
Unfortunately I live in Belgium. Otherwise I could help you with some products: mice and other pest are mostly no problem for me (I'm working in the pesticide business...)
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I don't have any problem with rodents and we don't have grey squirrels,just red ones, and they stay in the wooded areas. They greys never managed to cross the Shannon river.
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There is a Rodenticide on sale here called Storm and it kills Rats and Mice with just one feed. It contains Flocoumafen,and comes in small blocks or pelleted form.
They seen to eat it quite happily,not sure if they die happy. Made by a Co.called BASF Ireland Ltd in Clonee Co.Meath.
I am sure I can get some and post it if anyone is interested.
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A word of Caution!!
I may be wrong but I strongly suspect that the Post Office, at least in the UK, is not very welcoming of noxious substances in parcels! :o
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Just trying to help Maggi. :)
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I know, Michael, so was Mark.... but on behalf of the SRGC, I must remind folks that there may be laws about this !
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I got banned from Gardenweb many years ago for trying to get a grass herbicide from the US. Maggi I'm on my knees with hands held close to my chest begging :-[
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Maggi,there probably are EU laws about this ,they seem to have laws about everything else except the things they should have laws for, Banks,politicians expenses.etc. :)
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I was , perhaps, erring on the side of caution myself: I see that it seems perfectly possible to buy such products by mail order, so the regulations governing such things may not be so draconian as I had thought or feared. ::)
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While we have a few mice here and the occasional rat -this is the countryside after all and surrounded by farm and cropping land - I've never had a problem with mice among bulbs so I am deeply shocked at the damaged to your pots Arthur. I do hope you find a solution very soon and can stop further damage. I also hope you'll keep us all informed of how it goes. Best wishes for the battle to come.
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Arthur,
I also have the same problem with grey squirrels planting acorns in pots and digging up bulbs. Have had to resort to covering with alm. mesh over pots outside and plastic netting over the bulbs in the garden. Unfortunately, I have two large oak trees full of acorns in the garden, which attracts the squirrels. James.
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I don't have any problem with rodents and we don't have grey squirrels,just red ones, and they stay in the wooded areas. They greys never managed to cross the Shannon river.
Lucky you Michael. Greys are simply vermin.
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Arthur,
I think it is mice, may be squirrel, too, but it is not pest in Latvia, but I saw how it damages bulb plantings in USA, where in some districts bulbs must be put in cage at planting time. So you must to put rodent poison pellets in greenhouse between pots, it will help against rodents. Modern poisons has taste very favourable by rodents so they can't withstand temptation to eat poisoned food. Traps are good, but they can kill small birds, so I prefair poisons. The second - put over the bed the wire net, if holes are small - it will protect against rodents, but in combination with poisons you can use larger size to keep away squirrels. All windows in my greenhouse is closed by large size net to protect against cats who likes to go in, sleep on pots and to use beds or boxes for toilet. When I only started growing in greenhouse the cats selected just the long bed with rarest Juno seedlings for toilet. As it happened at period when bulbs go to summer rest I didn't visited greenhouse and found it only when came to harvest bulbs. Insted of bulbs I found 10 m long terribly smelling bed without labels and only few Juno's alive so strong manure. Now all windows and doors are closed by wire net, too. By the way - once my dog (Colly) decided that the best place to hide bones is just my large seedling boxes. 5 boxes felt as victims before I found it and covered outside placed boxes with large wire-net frames.
Janis
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I'm attaching a pair of pictures showing protection against cats.
Storm is very good poison, I think produced in Norway. It is quite expensive, but you must remember that you must place few pellets in greenhouse and to replace them not earlier that 3-5 days after rodents eat them. Modern poisons kills rodents only 3 days after they eat "present" for they forgot association between illness and food. So new portion you must put only for newcomers.
Janis
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I haven't used mouse traps, but regularly use rat traps.
I position them inside a tunnel made of two pieces of wood
with a piece of plywood for the roof - I make this tunnel high
enough to allow the snap part of the trap to operate.
This keeps birds away and prevents the rat from sneaking bait
safely from the side of the trap.
For the first couple of days I do not set the trap, but put a little bit
of bread and peanut butter on it so the rat gets used to feeding there.
Then I tie a short piece of wool around the little raised triangle
that is meant to hold the bait, and rub peanut butter on the wool.
The rat expects to get some food, but can't just grab and run now.
It pulls on the wool, and that sets off the trap.
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I am taking every precaution to ensure that only the mice are killed. The bulb house door is closed, and the windows on the lowest setting.
Mouse traps seem very ineffective so hope the sophisticated poisons work.
Thank you everyone for your help and advice.
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A plastic milk bottle does well for putting the bait in, don't worry the mice have no problem getting in the top.
Susan
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I'm attaching a pair of pictures showing protection against cats.
Storm is very good poison, I think produced in Norway. It is quite expensive, but you must remember that you must place few pellets in greenhouse and to replace them not earlier that 3-5 days after rodents eat them. Modern poisons kills rodents only 3 days after they eat "present" for they forgot association between illness and food. So new portion you must put only for newcomers.
Janis
Hi Janis,
Nice picture of you! Your greenhouse looks very clean!
Indeed Storm is one of the best rodenticides; it's based on flocoumafen; owner is BASF and producer is Sorex Ltd in Great Britain.
Your description how to use it is 100 % right - it's really a single feed anticoagulant (one ingestion is fatal). Brodifacoum (Klerat) is another single feed poison and as strong as Storm.
Best wishes
Hendrik
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Today i went once more to the Golan Heights [mostly Syrian teritory occiupied by Israel] and Mt. Hermon, the area is home to a large number of bulbous plants including 5 species of Crocus: hermoneus hermoneus, cancellatus cancellatus, pallasii pallasii, aleppicus and ochroleucus.
There is another form growing in the south Golan which was described in the past [ Prof. Feinbruniae] as C. hermoneus ssp palaestinus, others think it is C. cancellatus.
My aim today was to cross the Golan from the South up to the North where it meets Mt. Hermon in order to check the variuos populations. this time to check the bulbs because it is almost impossible to distinguish the forms by the flower alone.
The result is in the lower photo where after 90km i have maneged to collect all the three form involved.
My conclusion is that the form described from the S. Golan as hermoneus palaestinus is an intermediate form between cancellatus and hermoneus.
Now, is it a natural, fertile hybrid or an intermediate form between the two species?
Or, can it be cancellatus damascenus [by the form of the corm]?
Any suggestions?
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The intermediate flowers are very good eye candy. Thanks for showing them
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Now, is it a natural, fertile hybrid or an intermediate form between the two species?
Or, can it be cancellatus damascenus [by the form of the corm]?
Any suggestions?
Oron, It could be possible that both hybridize because cancellatus has the same chromosome number. As I know damascenus - its covering sheets is more coarse, so I don't think that it is damascenus. I suppose that best would be if you will try to cross both possible species (both ways) under controlled conditions. By flowers they really looks indistinguishable. And if this cross will succeed - you will know is this so or not. In any case by corm tunic I would separate this intermediate form from cancellatus. But really due growing conditions very unfavourable to Crocuses of your district my experience with those species is short or absent.
Janis
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Like Janis I have only limited experience with these dryland taxa. Clearly the Crocus hermoneus corm you show is quite distinct from the other two. The 'intermediate' form may well be a hybrid ... but is it a recent hybrid or an ancient one? It would be interesting to raise new plants from its seed. Indeed does it set seed? If so it might be a 'stable' hybrid ie one that is evolving / has evolved into a stable form. Then we might have to give it a different name.
BUT ::) Perhaps the intermediate and the other (not hermoneus) are just variations within the 'normal' cancellatus of the area. We are used to the variation in flowers, perhaps other aspects are also variable. It would be interesting to study a large number of these plants, such a sample might give us the 'big picture'.
I think you are the expert in this question Oron. You are able to study the plants in the wild. Your observations and reports are very valuable.
..... Perhaps I should join you next year and we can make a big study of these wonderful plants ;D
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..... Perhaps I should join you next year and we can make a big study of these wonderful plants ;D
May be I can join? Really I would very like to visit Israel next autumn and to go to see autumn crocuses in nature.
Janis
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Janis and Tony,
Thank you so much for giving your opinion regarding this question.
One of tne vantages of this form is that we can have a 'brain trust' online which is very helpfull.
I have offered on a few occasions to organize a crocus tour in Israel and it is still valid!!
so both of you and other 'croconuts' are welcome, i think it would be great to hear more opinions regarding some of the populations.
Tony, the 'intermediate' is a stable form, there are large populations of it growing over a few km.
it sets seeds freely, and has been known for many years also dew to the fact that it is the only crocus growing in the far south of the Golan Heights.
I think you brought up two valid options but it is difficult to say wether it is a stable hybrid or as you have said a a variation within the cancellatus.
Well maybe if you come next Autumn we can decide together :)
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Great pictures and reports Oron, beautiful Crocus flowers and corms -most stimulating.
I only wish the weather in Aberdeen was more amenable to growing them.
I have offered on a few occasions to organize a crocus tour in Israel and it is still valid!!
so both of you and other 'croconuts' are welcome, i think it would be great to hear more opinions regarding some of the populations.
Count me in. :) 8)
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Just to show some more variation in the cancellatus populations:
On the left sample of the population from center Golan Heights [790m], robust plants, corms are big and more flat in form while the other, on the right is from a higher population [1050], tiny plants, elongated corms. this population is growing in wet highlands and are covered with snow each year.
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Thanks Ian
It would be a pleasure to have you here, and just think that today it is 22c down here.
infact i think some of my bulbs are sweating at the moment...
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22 would be an average UK summer - oops I posted this in the wrong thread
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Just to show some more variation in the cancellatus populations:
On the left sample of the population from center Golan Heights [790m], robust plants, corms are big and more flat in form while the other, on the right is from a higher population [1050], tiny plants, elongated corms. this population is growing in wet highlands and are covered with snow each year.
Both corms on this picture has very coarse tunic regardless of size and shape, tunics are of same type. This intermediate form on earlier entry has very different tunic, so, if it is growing widely and forms constant population, most possibly it is different taxa, may be another subsp. of cancellatus? Or even different still undescribed species?
Janis
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I know that some forumists do not like cats - I do, and one in particular my own special mouser Gemma. At a ripe old age of 15, she can still catch those little b.....s that decimated my Crocus.
The proof
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Good to see that Gemma is not yet in retirement, Art ! The habit of the feline pets to bring their prey into the house to display to the owner is a trait that I am so glad that dogs do not copy! :P
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I am just glad she killed this one before she started playing with it - generally just stunned.
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Arthur you need to make sure the cat doesnt catch and eat mice that have been poisoned.
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Fortunately Mark she has never eaten one of her kills - and there have been planty over the years.
She is so proud to show them as trophies, along with wood pigeon feathers - now there is a pest!
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Arthur you need to make sure the cat doesnt catch and eat mice that have been poisoned.
Mark, modern rodent poisons are not seriously dangerous to cats and other animals, I think no one cat can eat hundreds of mouse to accumulate sufficient ammount of active ingredient to become dangerous. May be kittens... But regardless of 4 cats living free in my nursery (never allowed to step inside home) and huge ammounts of poisons fed to rodents (this autumn at present more than 20 kg) no one cat disappear. More dangerous to my cats are foxes, living in neighbour forest. 20 years ago I lost several cats for rodent poison because at that time poisons still were not so selective.
Janis
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Janis
Thank you for reassuring me about modern poisons. I have not used any yet, but will put some in the greenhouse when it arrives.
I am surprised at your remark about foxes being more of a danger. I thought this until I heard a radio programme that said foxes are cowards and a cat would normally see a fox off. This was certainly the case with Gemma, when we had a fox take residence in a pile off wood chippings at the bottom of the garden.
Grey squirrels on the other hand are very dangerous - their bite is generally fatal.
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Arthur
We haven't grey squirrels here (fortunately), red squirrels are dangerous only to small bird nests. Cat can escape from fox on tree, but on my property are large meadows around and trees are near house and forest bordering property. Cats are going to catch mice on meadows where comes foxes, too (in my forest is fox-mount, really it is named bedgers mount, as both are living in it). Mice are the main food for foxes, but one cat is of weight at least 100 mice so at period of fox child they are very happy meating cat on field without trees...
Janis
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Today went to greenhouse. Weather is very cloudy, some snow is in air and promissed sun didn't came in last days. I maid few pictures. On first you can see rodent poison tab which I'm buying directly from factory. There are used paraffin which makes tab moisture resistant. I'm putting tabs between pots in middle of bed where are some free space. Tabs which I placed on Friday mostly are picked up on surface of pots where my "friends" had nice meal. Pictured tab is only slightly tasted, from others left only some small bits. On way back to home I brought a pair of Crocus pots inside to force them open flowers for pollination and few pictures as I lost hope that some Crocus will open flowers this season in greenhouse. After 15th December are offered even minus 20 C.
Janis
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As I wrote in previous entry I brought inside a pair of pots. One was with Crocus longiflorus from Basilicata in Italy. First two pictures are made inside by flashlight, the third I made in greenhouse, when brought pot back.
Another pot with Crocus cancellatus mazziaricus started to open, but I think it will be possible to picture it only tomorrow as flowers still are only half-opened.
Janis.
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Janis what are the rodents that eat your bulbs? Only voles?
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Here is my first winter flowering Crocus - chrysanthus 'Sunspot'. The tube is also black. I think it was my first last year also
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Sunspot is exactly 4 weeks 2 days early. The first flower was photographed on January 8th 2009 and December 31st in 2007
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More dangerous to my cats are foxes
Must get myself a fox. ;D
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Janis what are the rodents that eat your bulbs? Only voles?
Generally they are mice (my computer vocabulary shows that vole is common word for mice and rat). In my previous garden I had problems with rats, too. Once I found almost dead huge rat just in box with crocus corms. There I had two cows (It was Soviet time) and bulbs were kept on attic of cattle. Later, when I took out stable manure, I found large deposit with topsize Crocus chrysanthus corms side by side with dead rat (poisons!).
On open field there are mice and most dangerous are water-rats (water-voles). Water-voles are very cautious to new food and they very rarely eat poisons if there are another food. Usually there are moles which makes initial holes followed by mice (all species) and water-rats. But there are mice which digs out corms from top (field-mouse - or vole), too, but such damage I rarely found. Regular replacing of poisons helps to keep mice under control. There are no real remedy against moles (only traps, sometimes works - this autumn I killed some 20 moles) and almost nothing against water-rats - only cutting of grass around garden and pools which helps to owls and hawks to catch rodents. Some are killed by my dog, some by cats.
I had no losses at present from pots, but some damage had in bulb shed when I forgot to put in poisons before started harvesting. Some boxes I found empty when started packing of orders. Fortunately I usually have some reserve stock unharvested and it is possible to fulfill received orders. More unpleasant is that mice brings crocus corms around and sometimes leave them halfway in wrong box. But after some painfull lessons, now I'm very carefull with replacing of poisons regardless of their costs.
Janis
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More dangerous to my cats are foxes
Must get myself a fox. ;D
:o They make more mess than a cat :) and they are not known mousers ;D
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More dangerous to my cats are foxes
Must get myself a fox. ;D
:o They make more mess than a cat :) and they are not known mousers ;D
Here the mice is main food for fox (city-foxes here are almost unknown yet; rubbish-deposit foxes here are, but they have very limited living area). So our foxes are good my friends and although I allowed to local hunter group to arrange hunting on my property (mostly for wild bores, sometimes elks, dears, ducks etc.), hunting of foxes on my place is hardly forbidden.
Janis
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Just checked another pot brought inside several hours ago - flowers opened but as outside is night, I pictured this one using flash-light. On picture Crocus cancellatus mazziaricus R2CV-018.
Janis
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You definitely dont want boar among your bulbs.
In Scotland one person uses pigs to clear ivy off the ground where snowdrops grow. The pigs eat everything except snowdrops, Leucojums and Eranthis
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Sunspot is exactly 4 weeks 2 days early. The first flower was photographed on January 8th 2009 and December 31st in 2007
It isn't honest, Mark. Twice in one year! ;D
Janis
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You definitely don't want boar among your bulbs.
Oh, not so exactly. They several times passed through my fields. Sometime pushed some juno iris out or some lily bulb, but mostly only broke wooden sticks separating stocks. Only once they ate tuberous geraniums on previous years field (it is impossible to harvest them completely by myself and bores didn't succeed, too). Of course I prefair to stay without uninvited visitors...
Janis
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I have offered on a few occasions to organize a crocus tour in Israel and it is still valid!!
so both of you and other 'croconuts' are welcome, i think it would be great to hear more opinions regarding some of the populations.
What a great occasion that will be! Ian, Janis, Oron, Tony (I'm being strictly alphavetical here :)) and what a wonderful new thread it will be for the Forum. I'm eagerly awaiting the outcome. ;D
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More dangerous to my cats are foxes
Must get myself a fox. ;D
;D ;D ;D
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Just to show some more variation in the cancellatus populations:
On the left sample of the population from center Golan Heights [790m], robust plants, corms are big and more flat in form while the other, on the right is from a higher population [1050], tiny plants, elongated corms. this population is growing in wet highlands and are covered with snow each year.
Both corms on this picture has very coarse tunic regardless of size and shape, tunics are of same type. This intermediate form on earlier entry has very different tunic, so, if it is growing widely and forms constant population, most possibly it is different taxa, may be another subsp. of cancellatus? Or even different still undescribed species?
Janis
Thank you Janis,
My question is if the different corms and netting are sufficient in order to separate it to a new subsp. or a species as the flowers and leaves are identical as well as the period of blooming?
Your mazziaricus is superb!
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Just to show some more variation in the cancellatus populations:
On the left sample of the population from center Golan Heights [790m], robust plants, corms are big and more flat in form while the other, on the right is from a higher population [1050], tiny plants, elongated corms. this population is growing in wet highlands and are covered with snow each year.
Both corms on this picture has very coarse tunic regardless of size and shape, tunics are of same type. This intermediate form on earlier entry has very different tunic, so, if it is growing widely and forms constant population, most possibly it is different taxa, may be another subsp. of cancellatus? Or even different still undescribed species?
Janis
Thank you Janis,
My question is if the different corms and netting are enough to separate it to a new subsp. or a species as the flowers and leaves are identical as well as the period of blooming?
Your mazziaricus is superb!
Yes, Oron. I think that shape of corm tunics is very important feature in separating of species. Flowers of crocuses are very variable, corm tunics is more constant. Will return to my entry at start of November after returning from Turkey trip. I entered picture of Crocus cancellatus mazziaricus by flower inseparable from C. mathewii, but corm tunics clearly confirmed that this one is just marginal form of mazziaricus. I repeat those pictures here. There were only 2 specimens with such color seen in large population, the second was with more splitted tips of stigmatic branches. Look on picture made by Kees Jan (published by him on Crocus entry a year ago - copied here). They found only 3 such plants in large population of C. cancellatus and again, just coarsely reticulated corm tunic confirms that it isn't new species (as I thought before I found that mathewii-like specimen and it can't be hybrid with kotschyanus as supposed by Kees Jan - too far genetically both are). The understanding came slowly, long thinking about nature of those specimens. The difference with your "intermediate" is that there are population with such plants, there are many specimens with such tunics. So I suppose that it really is new taxon, earlier unknown.
Janis
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Janis beautiful crocus.
An early Crocus graveolens
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Very handsome Tony.
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Janis beautiful crocus.
An early Crocus graveolens
Excellent form. My own graveolens all forms has more or less purple-brown stippling, striping on back of petals and they all flowers comparatively late. Yours is marvellous.
Janis
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Janis
I agree that Tony's graveolens is marvellous, but I really like those that have stippling or striping on the back of the petals.
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I find they are quite varied,some plain and some striped. Here is a striped one not yet open.
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I find they are quite varied,some plain and some striped. Here is a striped one not yet open.
My best graveolens.
Janis
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First two winter crocuses,1st one,Chrsanthus LB540,2nd one,Sieberi sieberi SBL343. Both from Cro.group seed 2002
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..... Perhaps I should join you next year and we can make a big study of these wonderful plants ;D
May be I can join? Really I would very like to visit Israel next autumn and to go to see autumn crocuses in nature.
Janis
I would be interested in visiting Israel as well,Jim Novis
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I find they are quite varied,some plain and some striped. Here is a striped one not yet open.
My best graveolens.
Janis
That is lovely Janis.
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I have offered on a few occasions to organize a crocus tour in Israel and it is still valid!!
so both of you and other 'croconuts' are welcome, i think it would be great to hear more opinions regarding some of the populations.
Oron, I would also like to visit the Israelian Crocus with you and the other crazy croconuts.
Don't know if I will have the time, but please inform me if you have a date.
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Great looking (and sooo early) Crocus Jim, Janis and Tony !
Is Spring in the air ?? :-\
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Crocus graveolens RIGA :o brilliant colour combination
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Janis
Crocus graveolens 'RIGA'
Now that is what I call a great graveolens 8)
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I have offered on a few occasions to organize a crocus tour in Israel and it is still valid!!
so both of you and other 'croconuts' are welcome, i think it would be great to hear more opinions regarding some of the populations.
Oron, I would also like to visit the Israelian Crocus with you and the other crazy croconuts.
Don't know if I will have the time, but please inform me if you have a date.
I have a lot of engagements already booked for Autmn 2010 but I would be very interested in a trip , Oron.... let's talk!
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Can I be hidden in your luggage?
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Great looking (and sooo early) Crocus Jim, Janis and Tony !
Is Spring in the air ?? :-\
Spring is very far, next week here is offered minus 17 C :-[ On Monday-Tuesday I will start covering of beds in greenhouse if weather broadcaste will not change. No snowing offered, so afraid about outside planted bulbs. Beds last night were visited by elk. Not very great damage, fortunately its way passed over large stocks making deep footprints and breaking shoots of muscari, scilla, corydalis etc.
Janis
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I have offered on a few occasions to organize a crocus tour in Israel and it is still valid!!
so both of you and other 'croconuts' are welcome, i think it would be great to hear more opinions regarding some of the populations.
Oron, I would also like to visit the Israelian Crocus with you and the other crazy croconuts.
Don't know if I will have the time, but please inform me if you have a date.
I have a lot of engagements already booked for Autmn 2010 but I would be very interested in a trip , Oron.... let's talk!
Ian, Janis, Tony, Jim, Thomas
I think the best time would be the first week of November when most of the Crocus should be in bloom, early rains would help but this is not guaranteed in this region.
I'm off to Crete November 13 so any date before it is OK.
At this time we can see; C. hermoneus, cancellatus, aleppicus [different forms], pallasii, hyemalis, ochroleucus + the intermediate form we were talking earlier.
Other species would be also in bloom: Colchicum steveni, antilibanoticum, hirosolymitanum, troodi, feinbruniae, brachyphyllum as well as Sternbergia clusiana and S. colchiciflora
Biarum angustatum, Pyrami, auraniticum, bovei, Cyclamen persicum var. autumnale, Narcissus tazetta var autumnale, N. serotinus, Muscari parviflorum, Scilla autumnalis, Pancratium and Vagaria, Urginea.
The only Crocus species we will not be able to see is a taxa [described as cancellatus damascenus, but obviously a new taxa] that flowers at 1000m in the Negev desert blooming early, in September.
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Ian is due to be in Canada at the end of October for a few days...... :-\
I know he really would like to do this trip, Oron!
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Ian is due to be in Canada at the end of October for a few days...... :-\
I know he really would like to do this trip, Oron!
Maggi we can do it also around October 20. i think 5 days would be sufficient to see all.
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What about a mini discussion weekend in Israel? Evening lectures and day visits?
I'm at a similar weekend next year in Berlin where I'm giving a lecture. It will be a mix of lectures and field trips except this time we are looking at common swifts, gierzwaluw, vencejo comun, sis hachomot, סיס החומות, Црна чиопа, Kara Sağan, Čiopa, ciopa, chyorny strizh, Gierzwaluw (Apus apus), Vencejo común, Черный Стриж, Martinet noir, Rondone comune, rondoni, السمامة, Mauersegler
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I cannot promise to come yet - but I am looking at the details in hope!
Flights from Luton are not expensive .... also not available to book so far ahead. ?Tel Aviv as entry point.
What about accomodation? Travel within Israel?
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Hi all,ref. trip to see Oron, anytime Oct/Nov.OK with me. Tony-Easyjet go to Larnaca(Cyprus) from Gatwick. Prices at the moment around £100+. We could then catch flight on to Haifa, may be possilbility? Jim.
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Hi all,ref. trip to see Oron, anytime Oct/Nov.OK with me. Tony-Easyjet go to Larnaca(Cyprus) from Gatwick. Prices at the moment around £100+. We could then catch flight on to Haifa, may be possilbility? Jim.
Jim
Easyjet has a daily, direct flight from Luton airport to Tel-Aviv starting from 86 Pounds.
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Thanks Oron, have noticed that. It was just an option as Gatwick is 12 mls from home and Luton is 75 mls.
Best regards, Jim. (can you send me your e-mail address?)
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I just got e-mail from TIMBER PRESS that
The book (CROCUSES) will still be listed in our Autumn 2010 catalog, but the actual publication date is now January 15, 2011
I think that it is due shortening of staff what caused elongating of processing time. World crisis... By first schedule at present I will be finishing reading of proofs, but now it is delayed till February.
Sorry for earlier misinformation.
Janis
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We passed coldest night in last 3 years - in my nursery temperature dropped to minus 20 C and at weekend is offered even colder. Today all the time I'm covering crocus and other beds in greenhouse by 5 cm (2 inch) thick (or thin?) glass-wool sheets. See attached pictures.
Janis
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They should be very snug and cosy under the covers Janis. How do the ones cope which already have buds and flowers?
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Looking forward to your book already.
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I just got e-mail from TIMBER PRESS that
The book (CROCUSES) will still be listed in our Autumn 2010 catalog, but the actual publication date is now January 15, 2011
Just in time for you to autograph it for us at the Alpines 2011 Conference in Nottingham! ;D
cheers
fermi
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I just got e-mail from TIMBER PRESS that
The book (CROCUSES) will still be listed in our Autumn 2010 catalog, but the actual publication date is now January 15, 2011
Just in time for you to autograph it for us at the Alpines 2011 Conference in Nottingham! ;D
cheers
fermi
No problems if AGS will invite me for lecture at conference.
Janis
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Flowering today in my home office... :)
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I like the C. laevigatus
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Mark, the second painting? ???
Not bad - it should be C. chrysanthus "Ard Schenk" ::) ;D
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These are super, Armin..... are they your work?
What size are they?
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Very nice Armin. Beats any old calendar. :D
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Maggi,
I'm pleased you like them too. I'm not the artist.
My wife is the creator of the acrylic paintings. The size of the square formats are ~20x20cm, the rectangular ~24x17cm.
Actually they are one of her first trials last spring when she started her hobby...
I thought would be quite good idea to show them on the forum to bridge the flowerless time a bit.
Lesley, you are quite right! ;D
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What a grand way for the two of you both to take pleasure from the flowers, even in the winter!
My congratulations to Frau Ruby.... 8)
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My congratulations to Frau Ruby.... 8)
Same here !
Can we order some Armin ?? ;D ;)
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The third one I like.
Another late winter flowering Crocus is out. fleisheri 'Gulek Pass'
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Very nice Mark !!
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Mice are a problem for me as well and I found traps not very good until I baited them with crocus bulbs! Each year when the garden centres are selling off there bulbs I buy some cheap ones for the Mice. One thing I find is a bulb lasts along while if you use the snap shut traps. If it loses its appeal remove some of its tunic. After all if they like crocuses no better way of getting them in the trap!
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Welcome,Paul ( PDJ)..... what a cunning plan to use crocus bulbs.......it is so logical..... must give that a try!
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Here they prefer chocolate ;D
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This is Crocus serotinus ssp. salzmanii, photographed in Morocco in late October
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Armin, my congratulations to your wife those are beautiful pictures.
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Same here !
Can we order some Armin ?? ;D ;)
Luc,
no plan yet to sell any paintings. But what would you be ready to pay for one? ;D
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Mark,
the last picture shows C. imperati "De Jager". My personal favourite too.
Your C. fleischeri "Gulek Pass" are very beautiful. Nice shots.
David, I'll forward your compliments to "Frau Ruby" ;) :D
Kees, beautiful form of C. serotinus subsp. salzmannii.
Interesting, the anthers seem to be much longer than the style? A typical feature for the population there?
Did you saw more flowers with markings on the outside?
Paul (PDJ),
the idea is clever but I feel any eaten crocus by mice is a loss! :o
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I don't know about the length of the anthers and will have a look at my pictures. Strong markings on the outside seem to be a rare feature in this subspecies. Here is C. serotinus salzmanii habitat in the Middel Atlas and two other forms.
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Kees,
what a woodland habitat :o. If you had asked before I'll never guessed it!
Very nice pale forms. Those come closer to the ones commercially available and shown on the forum too.
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This is Crocus serotinus ssp. salzmanii, photographed in Morocco in late October
Nice looking crocus,Kees. Quite different to some I saw in flower this Oct. north of Estapona in Spain.
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serotinus salzmanii is quite common in NW Morocco and grows in a variety of situations: in the margins of Pinus pinea woodland near the coast, in lowland Quercus suber woodland, in the margins of evergreen Maquis vegetation but also in meadows at higher altitude and in coastal heath.
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Merry Christmas all.
I have had a request for a site of Crocus cartwrightianus on Crete.
Can anybody help (best to PM me) ?
Happy New Year.
Andrew
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Sunny weather and 12C here -the Crocus laevigatus have picked themselves up very well after being being pressed flat to ground by snow.
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Ref.pest damage. Luckily not had any problems with mice yet,only squirrels planting acorns as previously mentioned in forum. However,just found following damage to Frit.davisii in my Access cold frame during our recent spell of snow.Frames were closed as night temp.down to -6 cent. and covered with webbing. Pots are in sand plunge and when I inspected the damage,I found a small grey slug (10mm long by 4mm dia,) which I imagine was the culprit.Incidentally,during this cold spell ,I also had a disaster with my paraffin heater. Blue flame when I closed the greenhouse,BLACK!! greenhouse and plants in the morning, see photo below. Happy New Year to All Forum posters. Jim.
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Crikey, Jim, that's not good. At least any chewing pests in the greenhouse are presumably dead from carbon monoxide poisoning? ::)
Ian had to spent a bit of time today working out why a soil cable wasn't working, solved it in the end, having tried all sorts of remedies, changing fuses, thermostats etc.... turned out a second air thermostat had somehow got wired into the loop! :(
There is, as we say in these parts, "aye a somethin' " :P
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Just one crocus in flower today, this form of Crocus sieberi can be found between Geraki and Kosmar in the Peloponnese.
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After almost 5 years from seed and not being sure if collected the right one...
blooming today the rare C. hartmannianus from Cyprus.
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It is a beauty anyway, and tiny by the look of the gravel?
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what a colour combination!
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That's a beauty Oron.
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It is a beauty anyway, and tiny by the look of the gravel?
Thanks,
Anne,
It is quite small but not tiny, i would say a C. laevigatus size.
Maggi,
I have noticed only now my new title and run to order my new vest with the script:
'SRGC PRESS'
Hopefully, with it, they will let me visit Syria and Lebanon as well ;) :D
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After almost 5 years from seed and not being sure if collected the right one...
blooming today the rare C. hartmannianus from Cyprus.
I like it anyway Oron . Is it also flowering now at his habitat in Cyprus ?
I am still a bit disappointed that we have missed the opportunity to see C. veneris in Cyprus during our last visit in november.
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Kris,
It blooms in January - February, depends on the rains, any way C. hartmannianus is extremely rare and unfortunately on a rapid way to extinction!! [as well as Scilla morisii and Tulipa Cypria]
In order to see the three species growing in Cyprus one should go there three times:
October - November for C. veneris
January - February for C. hartmannianus
March - April for C. cyprius, after snow melts.
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Oron thats very nice. Have you looked at the corm tunic which distingushes it from Crocus cyprius which is almost identical in flower. I have twice looked for it at known sites in the South with no success (to late) and think it is more 'common' in the Turkish north.
I have a flower of C. cyprius nearly out ,it flowered on the 26th December in 2007 so about right for it. We saw it in flower in March in the wild and I think C hartmannianus flowers lower down and earlier.
Oron I see I was typing mine whilst your was being posted
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Best one I have seen,your patience has been rewarded, Oron. Happy New Year,Jim.
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Thank you Jim and A happy New year to you too.
Tony,
I have checked the corm, and interestingly by the afternoon the anthers became blackish a characteristic that differs it too from C. cyprius.
Also my seeds are from 650m while c. cyprius grows much higher from 1100-1950m.
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A true little gem Oron !
Never seen it before - thanks for posting !
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Oron thats great,I have never seem the true one before.
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After almost 5 years from seed and not being sure if collected the right one...
blooming today the rare C. hartmannianus from Cyprus.
Some life again in Crocus forum. Thanks, Oron. Superb plant. It looks true to name, I only this autumn got first corm of it but here is deep winter now. At present zero, but at weekend offered minus 20 and a week later minus 30 and more.
Janis
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ALL THE BEST in COMING NEW YEAR, GREAT SUCCESES in GARDEN, in TRAVELS and MANY NEW ENTRIES in THIS FORUM and of course in PRIVATE LIFE, too.
JANIS