Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: maggiepie on November 30, 2009, 06:11:06 PM
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I was looking up pics of Erodium Guttatum and came upon this pic.
It's totally different from the other pics I saw as E. Guttatum, I would love to find out what this one is.
It is so beautiful of course I want one, maybe I can find some seeds. ;D
http://www.visoterra.com/images/original/erodium-guttatum-visoterra-30027.jpg
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If that's an Erodium I want one!
Ron Potterton shows has one that is white with black 'eyes'
http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=1843 (http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=1843)
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If that's an Erodium I want one!
Ron Potterton shows has one that is white with black 'eyes'
http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=1843 (http://www.pottertons.co.uk/pott/view_product.php?pid=1843)
Mark, I want one too.
What else could it be but an erodium with those leaves??
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A Pelargonium?
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Mark, it looks like an erodium to me.
Here's where the pic was taken.
http://www.visoterra.com/photos-maroc/endroit-erodium-guttatum.html
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Two more linkls to photos like the one Helen listed...... lovely thing, but much different from most other images of E. gutattum posted on the web..... I'm confused, as usual.... but I like this little dark-eyed plant very much!
http://www.golatofski.de/Pflanzenreich/gattung/e_bilder/erodium/erodium%20gutattum.jpg
Moroccan Flowers......
http://www.bium.univ-paris5.fr/sbf/activ_maroc.htm ( image 181, about halfway down the page.) This is a super site with lots of photos of the flowers of Morocco
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Well done Maggi!! ;D
You beat me to it.
It looks as though 2 totally different plants have the same name?????
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It's from Morocco. Someone needs to introduce it.
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The Moroccan website has some amazing and very desirable plants on it and we know that many are entirely hardy so it would be good to try some more. I enjoyed seeing old friends Rupicapnos and Carduncellus. :)
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Yes, Lesley, I enjoyed a browse around that Moroccan site too.... nice to be reminded of those plants, which , as you rightly say are often hardy( here in the UK, at least) on a cold wet November evening. 8)
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For me also there were many lovely plants. I always thought of Morocco as a desert ::)
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The AGS is offering a tour to see Narcissi of Iberia and Morocco
from Feb 25 to Mar 10.
They will be in the National Park of the "verdant" Rif Mountains.
The description lists other Moroccan plants that will be seen, but
I guess an erodium is too common to mention along with Raffenaldias
and Two-leaved Gennarias.
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Wow, Helen. That is an amazing flower in your first link, isn't it.
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I guess an erodium is too common to mention along with Raffenaldias
and Two-leaved Gennarias.
Yes, perhaps! Poor little Erodium ..... but it may be that that time of year is just rather early for the Erodium to be much in growth or flower?? we'll hope that's the reason it gets no mention! ;)
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Wow, Helen. That is an amazing flower in your first link, isn't it.
Paul, yes it is! ;D
Which erodiums are on the prohibited list in Oz?
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Helen,
The following are on the banned list....
Erodium carvifolium
Erodium castellanum
Erodium cazorlanum
Erodium manescaui
Erodium manescarvii
Erodium reichardii
Erodium trifolium
Erodium tordylioides is banned but still being evaluated.
And the following are allowed in....
Erodium botrys
Erodium cicutarium
Erodium corsicum
Erodium gruinum
Erodium guttatum
Erodium malacoides
Erodium moschatum
Erodium pelargoniflorum
So we could actually bring in seed of your little gem at the beginning. Cracker of a flower.
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Paul, I am surprised that Erodium reichardii is on the banned list, it is such a dainty little plant here.
Which reminds me I still have a piece of the white one in the garden, I better dig it up before it croaks and bring it in for winter.
Have you ordered your seed yet?
A little birdie told me that it is on the SRGC seedlist this year. No idea if it is the pink one from Morocco or the white one from the nursery in the UK.
Worth taking a chance though don't you think? ;D ;D ;D
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Paul, is there any indication of WHY those above are banned? I know that some are frowned upon here because the seed with its twisted pappus can get into and tangle, sheep's wool. None is specifically banned here and the last 3 on your banned list are permitted. The others are not mentioned but most likely because they haven't been evaluated and won't be unless someone applies for an assessment, not very likely. A dozen or so others are listed as permitted as well as manescavii, reichardii and trifolium. Chamaedryoides is permitted and is, of course, a synonym of reichardii.
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Lesley,
For the banned ones.....
Table 2: List of Prohibited Species. These species have been assessed as posing a high risk of becoming weeds in Australia and are prohibited entry by legislation.
From the icon database.
The E. tordylioides is ....
Table 3: List of species requiring further evaluation/assessment. These species are currently prohibited entry because insufficient information is available on their risk status.
That's all the information they give.
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I am more surprised that some of the banned ones make good garden plants, while some of the allowed ones are common agricultural weeds. Unless they are allowed as they are already agricultural weeds in Australia. I seem to remember a lot of annual Erodium on farms around Victoria.
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I cant remember gettings seeds from my collection other than 'Real Logano'
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Like God's Simon, the ways of MAF both in NZ and Australia are mysterious.
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I was searching for something quite other and came upon an article in the Rock Garden, Number 110 from January 2003 ( pages 57 to 66) that might be of interest.... it is by Peter Smith and is titled "Erodium for the Rock Garden. 8)
http://files.srgc.net/journals/vol_1%20to_113/110.pdf (http://files.srgc.net/journals/vol_1%20to_113/110.pdf)
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Maggi, thanks muchly, am half way through the article, my wishlist has lengthened!!
;D
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OOps, yes, I now realise that the article will have that effect! ::)
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Like God's Simon, the ways of MAF both in NZ and Australia are mysterious.
Lesley,
some of them think they are gods already - no need to encourage them ;D
Simon,
you're on the money - they see no point in banning something if it's already here, but E. reichardii is already here anyway, so I can't say this is always consistent!
cheers
fermi
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What about E. chamaedryoides? Is that permitted? Because it and reichardii are the same thing, the latter the later and (presumably) correct name.
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Lesley,
My posting was the complete listing for Erodium in AQIS. If it isn't on the list that means it hasn't been evaluated and therefore wouldn't be let through.
P.
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That's very surprising. I'd bet it is in the garden of most Australian rock gardeners under probably the former name It's been grown here for at least 70 years; the delightful little double form of it is more recent but still a long time ago and the white form as well which came into NZ in the early 1980s as E. reichardii album. They're a very nice trio. Then there's 'Bishop's Form,' sometimes listed here as a form of this species but it is, in fact, a form of E. corsicum.
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Maggi is the article available in word or pdf ?
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It's pretty huge in word, Mark.. but I have it in pdf at 664 kb.... will I email it to you?
Full pdf of The Rock Garden 110 :
http://files.srgc.net/journals/vol_1%20to_113/110.pdf (http://files.srgc.net/journals/vol_1%20to_113/110.pdf)
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That's very surprising. I'd bet it is in the garden of most Australian rock gardeners under probably the former name It's been grown here for at least 70 years; the delightful little double form of it is more recent but still a long time ago and the white form as well which came into NZ in the early 1980s as E. reichardii album. They're a very nice trio. Then there's 'Bishop's Form,' sometimes listed here as a form of this species but it is, in fact, a form of E. corsicum.
Lesley, that's very interesting. I have Bishop's form and it was sold as E. reichardii, I also have the white form, both are in pots inside the house at the moment.
I haven't seen the double form. Do you by any chance have a pic of it?
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yes please
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No I don't sorry, but I've seen it in several rock garden books and also the AGS Bulletin I think. It's an odd little flower as if a whole lot of rather narrow petals had been pulled together and tied at the back to make a bunch.
Erodium corsicum is very similar to reichardii but the leaves tend to be slightly downy. 'Bishop's Form' has larger, deeper pink flowers.
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A very bad photo of
the a double form...
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Mark, it is sent to you :)
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Thanks Lori, though I think yours is different from what we have here, which tends not to have the outer petals so wide and like the singles.
I've just been looking at the article Maggi mentioned on the previous thread page and find that some of the information there is different from my experience. In the first place, 'Bishop's Form' is said to be a form of E. reichardii which I said above, it isn't. I may have to back down on that one though my plant was imported from one of the very high reputation English nurseries under that name and when I questioned it, I was assured it was correct.
Secondly, reichardii and corsicum are said to be short-lived. I've not found this to be so. In fact they are some of the most reliable things in the garden for longevity, and the white form as well. Oh well, you pays wour money and you takes your choice.
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Thanks for the pic, Lori.
Is yours in the greenhouse?
Did you grow it from seed?
Lesley, I think you are right re Bishop's Form not being E. reichardii, the one I have that is labelled as BF, only has small flowers and they are a lighter pink than pics I have seen of Bishops Form.
Or maybe plants are just being grown from seed and sold as the parent. ???
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No, not from seed - I bought it as E. x variabile 'Flore Pleno'. The plants I've had bloomed very well through the summer, but didn't winter. I was given a division of it again last summer - should have planted it in the rock garden (instead of in humusy soil) to see if it made a difference, but I forgot to, unfortunately.
I've never noticed seed structures on them, so I suspect it is sterile...?
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Lesley,
I know the double you're meaning.... I grow it here myself. I bought a plant last year under the name of 'Galaxy' or something like that, which I think is the same thing. I liked my original plant enough that I didn't mind getting a second one if it turned out to be the same thing, but I hoped it would be different. I haven't had them flower together, but I think they're the same thing. I can't recall at present what the 'Galaxy' had on it as a species name etc.
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It may be that 'Galaxy' is a selling name Paul. I find here that many straight species are given tarty names in order to make them easier to sell to the uninitiated. (For which bit of patronizing know-it-all-ship I apologise, but it's a practice I find very annoying as it encourages those who DO know the plant to believe that here is a better selection worthy of being purchased when it's really just the same old same old. >:()
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Lesley,
I feel the same way about the renaming of things for reselling (and it happens here periodically unfortunately). I bought this one knowing it was probably the same thing as the other double I was growing, but I didn't mind getting a second plant of it anyway so I was already prepared for it to be the same. 8)