Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: Gene Mirro on April 22, 2007, 01:51:05 AM
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Evidently these plants are ecstatic about fluorescent lights and a cool growing environment. Seed was sown January 14, 2007. This is what they look like today (April 21, 2007). That's three months total since sowing of seed. I believe the dark green foliage is a result of a light feeding with chelated iron, which I am now giving to all of my seedlings. For other cultural details, see my post "Haberlea babies".
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Beautiful!
I have always found Codonopsis difficult, but you have great success.
Corinne
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Wow!! With growing like that I might even try them here. I always feel it isn't cold enough here for so many of the alpine-type thingies (to use the technical term! ;)) but that shows that it doesn't need much cold and will even grow under lights. Must go look for your Haberlea thread as well, as they are something I have read about a few times and love to come across pics of.
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That is truly incredible Gene! I grow this species myself from seed for my garden and nursery and 2 and a half years is what I expect from sowing to flowering.
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Lots of people garden under fluorescents, but it took me a while to realize the full potential of the method. It's tempting to come up with all kinds of theories about things like this, but they can't be proved without doing a lot of very tedious side-by-side experiments. All I can say is that I am growing many Lilium species, Arisaemas, bulbs, alpines and perennials in the basement at around 60F under cool white fluorescent lights, using the soil mix and fertilizer described in my "Haberlea babies" thread, with amazing results. It may be that the low temperatures delay dormancy, or that the plants really like the chelated iron or the bone meal or the soil mix, or they like the total absence of pests. I also use the lights for starting annual and perennial seedlings in the Spring. It works superbly.
One thing I really like about the fluorescents is that all the waste heat goes towards heating the house in Winter. So the cost of the energy can be largely discounted. And you don't need a basement; you can do this in an unheated room. Compare this with the horrendous energy cost of a greenhouse. I fear that greenhouses will become extinct as the cost of energy heads skyward.
This could be a way for people with no garden space to grow alpines. My Epilobium rigidum has been blooming and setting seed under lights for several months. I sowed the seed in March 2006, chilled it in the fridge until late September, and then grew it under lights all winter. My Arisaema seedlings germinated in September, and are just going dormant now, 7 months later.
This approach does not work well in the summer. The plants don't like the high temperatures, and the excess heat has to be removed by the air conditioning, so you are pouring money into energy. So I will soon be resorting to "dirt" gardening. Oh well...
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Gene,
A friend in Maryland, USA, makes great use of lights for growing many of his plants. He finds this especially so as the winter can be so very long for him. For example, he reported about two weeks ago that his hellebores were just coming into flower while mine were almost completely over here. It seems to be an excellent method of growing though, as you point out, it is high of energy consumption.
Lesley,
I am surprised at the length it takes codonopsis to flower for you. Most will flower in the first year from seed here. I wouldn't have thought that your climate was so dramatically different than ours.
You might help with a clematis query. I have a clematis in flower at the moment, white flowers, growing to about 8 feet. I grew this from seed received from Tasmania. It came to me simply as a native Tasmanian clematis but without a name. Could you, or anyone else indeed, suggest possible names for native Tasmanian clematis?
Paddy
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Paddy I know it's Campanulaceae but still it grows for me as if it were a bulb. The seeds germinate and make a wild tangle of foliage the first year, die down then the little tubers sprout again and I generally leave them until they've died down a second time, then tip out the pot and pot them in 2s or 3s for the nursery and they'll then flower when up for the 3rd time. There may be the odd flower or 2 in the second growth year but not much of a show until the 3rd.
Re Tasmanian Clematis. Others will know better than I but Australia has C. gentianoides, a low, scrambling plant (which I have but find difficult) and C. aristata which is a climber. Both have starry white flowers and there are probably others. C. aristata I saw as a thousand unwanted seedlings over my friend's garden in the Blue Mountains.
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Gene,
Please tell me where you found the seed?
Thank you,
Corinne
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I planted a Codonopsis bulb I bought in the spring and thought it had died. Yesterday I noticed a flower about two feet from the label and traced a wiggly stem back to the source. It has a white flower but the plant is totally not what I expected. ::)
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Anthony, it sounds as if you bought Codonopsis nepalensisis 'Himal Snow', the more common blue is C.n. 'Grey-Wilsonii'.
I am always nervous of breaking the delicate stem of these trailing Codonopsis when I am weeding so grow them in pots that I can put out in an identified location when they start growing. Now that I have some small plants coming on perhaps I should just plant one or two in the ground. A lovely flower.
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I was given this one but cant remember the name. It could be clematidea
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Mark, that is 'Himal Snow'
See this page in old forum http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/283/16226.html for a post by John Forrest Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 3:49 pm: for a pic. By the next year, John thought his plant had died... you must do better!
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Does anyone know if Codonopsis chrisgreywilsonii smells like the codonopsis I dug up and threw out because it smelled like skunks - ugh. Flowers were very nice but I just couldn't bear the smell of the plant. Sue Gill has given me the former, and from this thread the flower looks very nice indeed, but I just don't want it in the garden if it is going to smell as bad as the last Codonopsis I had. Plant is quite small still and I don't detect the same smell yet.
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Chris, rest assured that Codonopsis grey-wilsoni is a non-stinky variety. Most Codonopsis do have a very strong foxy musky pong, but this is an exception.
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There is a link to a codonopsis website on the links page for any one that is interested in trying to name seed grown codonopsis. Most of what you get from the exchanges turns out to be C. clematedea. C. ovata is a lovely small plant and doesn't have such a strong smell, there are plently of good species out there, but also a lot of thugs. With C. convulvlacea/ grey wilsonii etc. you have to watch out that some well meaning guest doen't start removing it thinking it is convulvulus :o
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That happened in Margaret Glynn's garden a couple of years ago. She has these Codonopsis growing in a troughs in the back yard. The visitor I brought, thinks he's a gardener, thought they were weeds and pulled them out saying "you dont want those in there"
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Thanks Maggi and Susan. I'll have to give it a suitable home now I guess. I don't have many places where I can look at it from below. It looks so delicate but Sue G. told me it was very tough. It is a very pretty flower from the original post and pic. Thanks again
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Chris, it will scramble to quite a height, around six to eight feet so it is quite easy to see into its flowers. We grow some up early flowering clematis, C. barbellata and through a Mutisia as well as letting some twine their way over ground and up smaller rhodos.
I like all Codonopsis, though the stinky ones are pretty smelly.. the flowers are so intricate, lovely colours and markings, like little passion flowers, almost.
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It's really offensive I think, when someone comes into the garden and proceeds to "weed" it, pulling up this and that.
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Does this include willow herb and NZ cardamines?
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Yes, it jolly well does Mark. Apart from anything else, we're not bothered with willow herb to any extent (not E. angustifolium anyway) and the NZ cardamine has a tap root which needs to be got under. That aside, damage can be done to wanted seedlings or plants and I feel it's like an invasion of my private space which I can do without. Someone wouldn't dream of coming in my house and flicking a duster around or doing the washing. Why should they touch my garden?
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Someone wouldn't dream of coming in my house and flicking a duster around or doing the washing. Why should they touch my garden?
Hear, hear! A very dear chum weeded all the tiny aciphylla seedlings out of a trough a few years ago, Ian has never let her forget it!
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Mark,
I hope the Codonopsis weeder was lynched!! I just don't accept that someone pulls "weeds" out of someone's garden without permission. It is different with close friends where you know what is and isn't a weed in their garden (for example I pull flick weed out at friend's places all the time, but even then I always ask if it is OK before pulling out the first one.... EVERY time I visit I might add. That and bleedin 'Herb Robert <shudder>). To me it is just plain rude to pull anything out in anyone's garden without permission, regardless of how "common" or weedy you yourself may feel it is.
OK, rant over now!! ;D I too would never let someone forget pulling out something precious. 8)
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Well if anyone fancies coming over here and pulling some weeds out they are welcome. I will provide the wheelbarrow ;)
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We are particular about who gets to help us with the weeding, certainly not the grandchildren much to the annoyance of their mother!
One of our greatest honours in the gardening world was to be invited - invited - to help with weeding at Askival. We restricted ourselves to obvious 'poppers' and willow herbs etc but were pleased that Mike thought that we had some sense.
Lesley, if you happen to pop into our house when we are not home the dusters and vacuum are in the kitchen cupboard and you will find a hand fork and bucket in the garden shed. Make yourself at home, I will not feel embarrased although I might feel sore if Carol reads this post
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Well thanks David, since I have permission I'll probably take you up on it, though remember, this cleaning lady likes a little (amber liquid) something, after a hard day's housework. Where's THAT cupboard? :D
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I have a small problem with Geranium robertianum too but I like it's bigger cousin G. rubescens now renamed G. yeoi
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In the dining room, Lesley. Well stocked!
Now, I haven't visited Carol and David, but I do know that any visitor to their place will never die of thirst...we're talking good hosts ,here! Maggi)
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Then just get on the bus, Maggie!!! You're not a thousand miles away, or however many thousand Lesley is.
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I think Lesley is about twelve thousand miles away, David, to less than a hundred for me! Dreadful, isn't it? But I am infamous for my lack of visiting: I even visit less than I do housework, and that's saying something!
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Corinne, the seed that produced the plants in the photo was over 20 years old, and was kept in the deep freeze until I planted it. I have no record of where it came from. I received C. convulvulaceae from the North American Rock Garden Society, and from Jim and Jenny Archibald, in Winter 2006. I haven't grown those seeds yet. I also have C. convulvulaceae alba and C. vincaeflora. My C. vincaeflora are now four feet tall, growing on a tomato cage out in the yard, with morning sun and afternoon shade. I'll take a photo tomorrow. They are setting tons of seed, but it's not ripe yet. If you want some, let me know.
I am concerned that the roots will not survive the wet winter outdoors, so I will dig them when they go dormant and store them in dryish peat moss in the fridge over the winter.