Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Grow From Seed => Topic started by: maggiepie on November 14, 2009, 03:22:41 PM
-
I have a couple of these plants grown from seed this year and am wondering if someone can ID the plant.
They are still outside in the garden and have been frozen and thawed at least a dozen times but are still bouncing back.
I am thinking of digging one up to bring inside for winter as neither of them have flowered.
-
Trifolium springs to mind,we grew some from seed a few years ago.
-
Thanks Shelagh. Do you still have them?
Do you know what temps these erodiums are hardy to?
-
I think pelargoniifolium and trifolium is the same plant. I found it very floriferous but short lived
-
Plant Finder lists both plants
-
Mark, in your opinion, what are the hardiest erodiums?
-
Helen,
I have just sent Brian out to look at the labels. I'm not sure of all the spellings but here is a list of our best, long lived and floriferous Erodiums.
E Tyni Kyni
E Natasha
E Marsham Pink
E Frans Delight
E Julie Ritchi
E Maryla
E Stephanie
E Pickerings Pink
Hope these are helpful.
-
Sorry Helen just read your post again. Trifolium was floriferous but didn't survive a Lancashire winter. All the ones I have mentioned have been in the garden for several years and we often go down to minus 5 or maybe even a touch more.
-
Thanks shelagh.
The only one in your list I have heard of is E Natasha.
Do you have pics of any of them?
The ones that wintered for me last year were E Manescavi, E carvifolium, E Lindavicum and E Cedrorum.
I grew E Gruinum this year and have seedlings coming up everywhere, I doubt any will survive the winter though.
-
I have a few species Erodiums, nothing fancy, but I like them but I must admit I was not aware of any of the cultivar names in Shelagh and Brian's list :-[ .... I will need to seek some of these plants out next year since I think that these can be such useful plants for foliage and flower appeal.
-
Hi,
I have read that Pelargoniiflorum and Trifolium are seperate species, but are easily confused. One distinguishing feature of Trifolium is a fleshy caudex like stem base, I don't think Pelargoniiflorum has this feature. Attatched are photos of both for you to compare-Pelargoniiflorum was at RHS Wisley, Trifolium at Kew, so the labels ought to be correct in theory. Hope this helps you, James.
-
I have a few species Erodiums, nothing fancy, but I like them but I must admit I was not aware of any of the cultivar names in Shelagh and Brian's list :-[ .... I will need to seek some of these plants out next year since I think that these can be such useful plants for foliage and flower appeal.
Maggi, I agree, they are very useful plants, I always find myself bending down to have a closer look whenever I pass one in flower.
Some of them look like they have little faces that smile back at me. :o
James, thanks for the pics, after looking at the pics next to mine until my eyes crossed, I am thinking my plant is more likely to be E Trifolium.
-
Can I advertise again? ::)
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/erodium.htm (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/erodium.htm)
-
Can I advertise again? ::)
http://www.marksgardenplants.com/erodium.htm (http://www.marksgardenplants.com/erodium.htm)
Is it really "advertising" Mark, when you are not selling us anything, only helping us out by providing info ? :) ::)
-
Looking again at your origional photo I would be inclined to agree, it looks like Trifolium to me too, but I wouldn't pretend to be an erodium expert. The tuber of trifolium should be easily visible by the way-does your plant have one?
regards, James.
-
Mark, your website is too tempting by far.
I had to stay and look at your geranium pics too, will save the other plants for Ron.
James, I can't see any tuber, maybe I planted the seedlings too deep?
They grow in a rosette shape with the bottom leaves hugging the ground.
-
The Erodiums in our garden are still managing to put the odd flower up. They are definitely one of the best plants for length of flowering display. Yes I do have pictures Helen but I haven't put names to them they are just general shots of the garden, I'll try and sort some out.
-
Thanks Shelagh, I look forward to seeing them.
-
The tuber develops just above the surface of the soil-if your seedling is very young it may not have developed yet.
regards, James.
-
James, my seedlings were planted out in the garden in late May.
I'm not sure how long lived they are, my E Gruinum plants germinated, flowered set seed and croaked in a matter of months.
-
Maggie
I acquired this plant as E. pelargonifolium & grew it as such for many years, it seeds itself about very easily. It has survived the wet, damp and cold of our winters. East coast of the UK.
I have now been told the plant is E. trifolium. Whichever it is it flowers from early spring right through to late December. Produces lots of seed and so I just pull out older plants and allow seedlings to develop.
Mike
-
That looks lovely, Mike... the flowers are larger than I expected.
-
Thanks for the input Mike, your plant is beautiful.
Think I will go dig one up just in case. Maybe if I can get one to flowering the seedlings will be hardier.
-
Maggi this species probably has the best flowers other than 'Logano Real'
-
When the rain stops I'll photograph the leaves. They lie flat to the ground, look like fern fronds and the flowers come out on very long low held stems
-
Beautiful flowers Mark, the photo isn't half bad either ;D
Is it 'Logano Real'?
-
You can use your imagination from this photo
-
sorry yes it is.
-
The plants at kew have the tuber clearly visible above the soil, as yours is not a v.young seedling and dosn't sound like it has a tuber, perhaps it is pelargonifolium after all?
regards, James.
-
Mark,
What about Erodium 'Spanish Eyes'? That has pretty impressive flowers. I must admit I really love the look of the Erodium trifolium. Looks like a good substantial plant, with good sized flowers. The 'Spanish Eyes' seems to be quite a small plant, but with large flowers, particularly when contrasted with it's fine foliage. So how big are the flowers on the trifolium/pelargonifolium and the 'Logano Real'?
Interesting to note that Erodium pelargonifolium is on our quarantine allowed list, while Erodium trifolium is specifically banned due to weed potential.
-
'Logano' has a group of flowers bigger than putting finger and thumb together. 'Spanish Eyes' is lovely but I find it short lived. Many I find are very floriferous with Natasha possibly being tops. It can get a wee bit straggly.
I have some 'Logano' babies ;)
-
Mark,
Thanks for the info. How long do you regard as "short lived"? I've had my 'Spanish Eyes' for about 3 years or so now, having lost it a couple of times previously. The one that has survived and done well is the one that gets the least water and in the hottest area. The previous ones have rotted which is why I tried this one where it is. Obviously it likes the heat and good drainage where it is.
So what do you expect from the seedlings of the 'Logano'? Do you expect there to be much difference between them? Which of the ferny leaved species is it derived from?
-
'Logano' has a group of flowers bigger than putting finger and thumb together. 'Spanish Eyes' is lovely but I find it short lived. Many I find are very floriferous with Natasha possibly being tops. It can get a wee bit straggly.
I have some 'Logano' babies ;)
Mark, I hope you remember to post pics of the babies when they flower. :)
-
Paul, I can find no reference to the plant name in Plant Finder or the internet
-
here is a photo of my plant
-
Mark,
Looks a bit like wild celery. ;D
-
I dont know the plant, Paul
-
I may have the wrong name. One of the herbs has leaves very much like that. Spreads quite a bit as well. I obviously don't remember which one it is. Doesn't matter iehter, as it isn't a Pelargonium.
-
I know its some time since any one has posted on this topic but I thought this might help. Its a photo I have posted to Flickr
www.flickr.com/photos/64651600@N02/7999380990/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64651600@N02/7999380990/#)
[attach=1]
All the photos of E. pelargoniiflorum in this post have been E. trifolium
-
Welcome, Storksbill, good to have you join in.
Forgive my confusion- what is in your photo?
-
Sorry, the left hand side of the photo is Erodium trifolium, the right hand side is Erodium pelargoniiflorum, showing the marked differences between the two species. I hope this helps
-
Erodium trifolium and pelargonifolium can also be differentiated by fruit as shown in this document p19 : http://www.tela-botanica.org/sites/botanique/fr/documents/biblio/articles_en_ligne/apercu_de_la_taxonomie_du_genre_erodium.pdf (http://www.tela-botanica.org/sites/botanique/fr/documents/biblio/articles_en_ligne/apercu_de_la_taxonomie_du_genre_erodium.pdf)
and have a look on a erodium seed (fruit) if it looks like A or C in p24
-
Sorry, the left hand side of the photo is Erodium trifolium, the right hand side is Erodium pelargoniiflorum, showing the marked differences between the two species. I hope this helps
Thank you!
-
Erodium trifolium and pelargonifolium can also be differentiated by fruit as shown in this document p19 : http://www.tela-botanica.org/sites/botanique/fr/documents/biblio/articles_en_ligne/apercu_de_la_taxonomie_du_genre_erodium.pdf (http://www.tela-botanica.org/sites/botanique/fr/documents/biblio/articles_en_ligne/apercu_de_la_taxonomie_du_genre_erodium.pdf)
and have a look on a erodium seed (fruit) if it looks like A or C in p24
Good link, thank you!