Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
SRGC Shows and Events => Events => Topic started by: Katherine J on November 12, 2009, 09:26:39 AM
-
As well as photos of the new AGS President, there are super pictures of various recipients of the premier Awards at the event on this page in the AGS Website.....
Isn't it sad that one can't see any 20-30 year old faces on the AGS and SRGC pictures which are shown on the web or in the Journals? What do the youngsters do???
-
.... and that is a major problem for both the SRGC and the AGS and I don't have the answer.
-
The question of how to attract younger members is a perennial one for the SRGC and the AGS... and if we could encourage membership in the 20 to 30 age group that would be terrific... but think about it.... some of us here have many decades of experience in these clubs.... when were there EVER a large number of younger members? I suggest , never! Yes, there have always been and will always be a FEW younger people who join and are active members, but the simple fact is that there have never been large numbers in that age group... for very obvious reasons.... this interest is not universally appealing to younger folk and perhaps simply because people of that age are at a stage in their lives when there are a million more pressing demands on their time.... they may still be studying, or working hard to advance their careers and be saving their money to get a roof over their heads and make a family and home... none of which leaves much time to indulge in club membership, even if they HAD a garden ! So the answer is really pretty simple..... it was ever thus... we can just try as best we can to keep our clubs active and vibrant so that when these folks do finally discover gardening, we are here to welcome them! 8)
Thankfully, we can demonstrate here, in the Forum, that there are youthful members who have the intelligence to recognise the value and beauty of the natural world and who are prepared to follow their interest in this field.... these are people of taste and discrimination to have come to such a realisation at an early age and are to be commended for their precociousness in this matter . 8)
-
... in the Forum, that there are youthful members who have the intelligence to recognise the value and beauty of the natural world and who are prepared to follow their interest in this field.... these are people of taste and discrimination to have come to such a realisation at an early age and are to be commended for their precociousness in this matter . 8)
Tempted here to say thanks very much Maggi :-[ :-[ ;) ;D
I suspect you're right though; for many younger people (& some older ones too) active society membership remains on the 'to do' list until more pressing concerns have been addressed. That said, joining the SRGC online & registering on the Forum take no more time than a random twitter ...
-
Maggi,after 50 years in the horticultural business in one form or another,I can assure you that the horticultural gene in most people does not click into action before 35 years of age. When they loose the children in long grass and accumulated rubbish in the garden they come to realize, first,that they have a garden, and second,that they must do something with it.
-
For those who are busy with work, children or whatever, an have no time and energy for gardening, it can be understood. But there are many, who just don't know what to do in their free time, on weekends for example. At least here...
-
I can assure you that the horticultural gene in most people does not click into action before 35 years of age.
It is very interesting, but it seems to be true. ::) ;D
-
I guess Maggi and Michael are quite right about this !
I was 28 myself when I started to get interested in gardening and 38 when I took on alpine gardening...
One big advantage of this whole situation is that, when I visit a show today, at 57, I feel young !! ;D ;).... amidst a large number of people who are young at heart !
-
For those who are busy with work, children or whatever, an have no time and energy for gardening, it can be understood. But there are many, who just don't know what to do in their free time, on weekends for example. At least here...
I think that is true here as well, Kata..... folk with no imagination to find something to occupy themselves..... it is really disheartening to hear children and young people say.... "I'm bored" .... WHY are they bored? >:(
The world is still so large and wonderful ! :)
There is nothing like a gathering of gardeners to show you how many happy and lively ninety year olds there can be after a lifetime in gardening!! And, of course, old gardeners never die... they just move on to "primary composting"!!
-
I went to a lecture years ago about the horticultural trade. The age group who go looking for plants is changing. The enthusiast numbers are going down while the instant gardeners are increasing fast. The former come in looking for the special plant while the instant gardeners are looking for filled pots/baskets and window boxes. No time to do anything. They are also looking for, and I have had experience, the evergreen plants that doesnt need maintaining, looks good all year and had flowers.
-
They are also looking for, and I have had experience, the evergreen plants that doesnt need maintaining, looks good all year and had flowers.
Yes, we get a lot of questions from those folks on the radio programme..... "where can I buy an evergreen, flowering hedge which reaches 6 feet in one year but then never gets any taller and never needs trimming ?" :P
We can only hope that new AGS President Val Lee and our nominated successor to President Ian Christie, Mrs Liz Mills, who will be elected new SRGC President at the SRGC AGM on Saturday 14th Novemeber, will not have to concern themselves with too many such enquiries during their period of office!
-
Somewhere in East London there is a very keen 31 year old gardener and her husband who are just the sort of young people who are interested in growing in troughs, pots, bric a brac, and small spaces with tired soil - perfect places for alpines and not difficult to maintain if the right plants are selected....I can only encourage from the Alps but maybe they will influence their large circle of like-minded friends....my home-made Christmas card will have a link to the SRGC site too as it's so much part of my good news this year :D
-
evergreen plants that doesn't need maintaining, looks good all year and had flowers.
Mark we tried for years to produce such a plant without success. ;D If someone can produce it they will be millionairs overnight. ;D ;D
I once herd an assistant in a garden centre tell a customer that the plant she had just bought did not need any water. I had to tell her that all life on Earth depended on water, no water, no life. She was not impressed.
-
when were there EVER a large number of younger members?
In the 1980s the Aberdeen group had lots of 30 somethings, including us! To be honest I can't see many 20 somethings joining a plant society - I most certainly would not have. You have to have a permanent home with a garden and settle down first; in other words become boring, it happens to us all sooner or later. ;D
-
An evergreen flowering shrub is easy - a conifer with a Codonopsis bulb in the pot ;D
-
But David,you still have to water it. :)
-
This sounds very familiar! I like telling people at our club (the Ferny Creek Hort Society) that when I joined in the 1980's I was one of the youngest members - and I still am!
Maggi,
don't you think this discussion deserves its own thread?
cheers
fermi
-
Good idea, fermi.... I have split it off to its own thread. :)
It is really heartening that we do have a good number of younger members here in the Forum.... Students who have the brains to see the pleasure in plants! 8) 8)
-
Perhaps some of our younger members could reply?
-
Well I was a younger member once. Susan and I were still in our twenties when we joined the committee of the North Lancs group. Most of our friends are significantly older than us but we find we have nothing in common with most of our own generation.
I absolutely agree with Michael about the gardening gene not switching on until 35 though. We were a bit early!
There are lots of younger gardeners at my workplace but they are very narrowly focussed on food production. Possibly a result of being environmental scientists. I once sent our group programme to the work garden club coordinator and he literally looked down his nose at me and stated 'we don't grow......flowers..
I also agree with Maggi about youngsters claiming to be 'bored'. It makes my blood boil and they should be forced to go to a library and look up 'attention deficit disorder'. Who knows, they might even discover what books are for?
-
When I speak to people at our show or at lectures they have this blinkered view that to be a member of an alpine organisation you have to be an expert growing of stunning alpines
Recently I was almost knocked off my feet when a young person at a lecture I was giving asked "would you recommend Crug Farm?"
-
I don't think we are by ourselves in lacking younger members, our sister Society, the AGS, has a similar problem and seems to have a recruitment problem in general. Indeed the AGS is holding a Symposium at Pershore on Saturday to discuss member involvement and recruitment issues. I had hoped to attend but family circumstances mean I shall have to be elsewhere but I think John Dower is attending on behalf of the East Lancs local AGS Group.
We are lucky in that the Forum is very much an interactive grouping in a style that will appeal to both young and not so young and we have a good sprinkling of younger members, Arne, for example, being perhaps our youngest participating member at the tender age of 18. I don't think we should worry too much, after all we are used to sowing seeds and waiting some years before we see a result aren't we?
-
Isn't it sad that one can't see any 20-30 year old faces on the AGS and SRGC pictures which are shown on the web or in the Journals? What do the youngsters do???
So many comments in this thread ring true! BUT we do have a few young faces ... Calvin B, Cephalotus, one of the Michaels ...
Like Darren I was a younger face once, joined the AGS aged 27 .... still the youngest member of my local group over 20 years on.
Changing lifestyles might push the age at which the gardening gene kicks in up a bit, but I think there will still be new faces yet ... just thay might be greybeards (or blue rinses) rather than 30somethings!
I am going to the AGS symposium tomorrow .. if I can regain consciousness in time for a 545am start :P
-
The great thing about alpine gardening is that you do not need a garden to do it and I do know young people who take great pride in growing plants on their windowsills or in a window box. In these harsh economic times I hear from the young that there is a real desire to return to the rewarding pursuits of making and creating things for your home space and not spending hard earned cash on ready made goods. Maybe posting their efforts on Facebook or Web albums is their way of sharing amongst friends - I wonder if there is a way to create a window to/advertise the SRGC on sites they they frequent?
-
I joined our local gardening club here in Norway when I was 25 and I couldn't even speak the language. I'd gardened then for about 5 years, disregarding the strawberry patch I had when I wore short trousers. I don't feel any different from when I was 25, so I consider myself young still...
Anyway, I'd always assumed that a lot of you digitally age their pictures (like me) so that they feel more comfortable with their perception that everyone else is old? ;)
-
I joined our local gardening club here in Norway when I was 25 and I couldn't even speak the language. I'd gardened then for about 5 years, disregarding the strawberry patch I had when I wore short trousers. I don't feel any different from when I was 25, so I consider myself young still...
Anyway, I'd always assumed that a lot of you digitally age their pictures (like me) so that they feel more comfortable with their perception that everyone else is old? ;)
;D ;D ;D
-
I'd be pretty worried if I saw a load of teens and twenties on here. That would mean this was fashionable. ;D
-
The great thing about alpine gardening is that you do not need a garden to do it and I do know young people who take great pride in growing plants on their windowsills or in a window box.
My first alpines were grown in pots kept in a window box!!
When I got an allotment nearby I was able to rotate my pots :)
Then, eventually I got a house with a garden :) :) :) :)
Now I have children and a very scruffy garden :P
-
I would suggest that public interest in plants and gardens has never been higher, and that there were horticultural colleges full of potential new recruits.
If a society is not able to engage with these people, meet their needs, and appear relevant to them, it deserves to fall by the wayside.
Societies continually need to adapt and evolve, develop new areas of interest, and embrace new technologies, if they are to flourish.
Societies that remain fossilised, carry on doing the same old thing (because that's the way it has always been done) will pass in to obscurity, and it is only right they should.
-
I am sure you are correct , Giles. It is a question of how best to engage with these folks, isn't it?
The SRGC does what it can, when it can........ offers of free Student memberships etc, and of course, there is the Diana Aitchison Fund, administered by the Club, which can offer good grants to Students. In spite of considerable efforts in these directions, however, there is never exactly an avalanche of applicants for the free places or the grants! ???
-
.....I could send you pages of suggestions if you wanted....
-
Seriously, Giles, if you would take the time to send me any suggestions you have then I would be pleased to pass them to the SRGC Council and President who are more than open to advice from the Members. Thank you! 8)
-
digressing here sorry
I hear Gardener's World viewing numbers have nose dived since Toby et al took over. Are we surprised? Nah!
If they cant attract an audience how can a garden club?
-
If they cant attract an audience how can a garden club?
Content is what makes a good programme, Mark, but personalities have hijacked these gardening programmes which I find of little interest anymore - I agree with Giles there has to be a way to engage with young-er people and if they see that a site that is lively, like the SRGC Forum, and relevant to their lifestyle they will be drawn in. Where else can they find such detailed information on growing all sorts of plants in all sorts of localities and have their own efforts encouraged and admired? In addition a sense of humour will cheer them up after a hard days work and supply exciting challenges for the WE let alone open up their eyes to travel opportunities in all the amazing places revealed in these threads - no travel agent could do that! ;)
"We will, we will rock you" should be our Mantra ;D
-
It will be done Maggi.
Having progressed through various societies, and now in horticultural college I can see that there are alot of opportunities out there.
-
Every year our group invites students from the horticultural college to join for free. No-one ever comes.
I am the baby of our group
-
Mark, (and others, as it seems to be recurring theme)...
--it would be wrong to assume that all horticultural groups are necessarily geared to 'older' people, or have an ageing profile.
I recently attanded a meeting, at which, I (aged 45) was probably the oldest person there.
-
Very well done for that group. Was it an ordinary gardening group?
-
........ In spite of considerable efforts in these directions, however, there is never exactly an avalanche of applicants for the free places or the grants! ???
Could well be poor publicity Maggi, or perhaps good publicity but in the wrong places?
I shall be interested in the points Giles has to make but in the meantime it seems to me that we shouldn't expect young people to come to us, we must go to them and meet them in their surroundings offering their comforts. If we wish to get a reaction from them we need to provide them with the stimulation to generate the reaction. Not new at all, that is how it has always been.
-
........ In spite of considerable efforts in these directions, however, there is never exactly an avalanche of applicants for the free places or the grants! ???
Could well be poor publicity Maggi, or perhaps good publicity but in the wrong places?
Colleges offering horticultural course are informed, noted on websites advising about Grants...... not sure what else could be done. It would be too easy to spend the budget on advertising or admin, which is not desired.
-
I've been gardening in some way, shape, or form since I was a child. It was always a secret passion as gardening was for 'older' people and not something kids did. I regret this now, as I would have loved to have trained in Botany or worked at a Botanic garden. Instead I studied Biology, which was never plant-orientated enough for my liking.
I grew interested in alpines in my midteens, when I found some of Ingwerson's books in the local library, and sent off for catalogues from several now defunct Alpine Nurseries. I attended some Alpine Shows as a 'spectator'; but being a half, third or even one quarter of the average age isn't easy and I suppose the general assumption is that you are someone's child. I always found as a younger person at shows you are much more likely to be made to wait longer to buy something or be pushed out of the way. I was once slapped sharply on the bum by a much older lady, who should have known better, and told to move out of her way. I was brought up to respect my elders and do understand the phrase 'Excuse me' so I was left rather shocked. How would she have reacted if I had done this? How long before the Police were called?
I always feel that the measure of any society is how welcoming the regular members are to new faces. Thanks go out to the SRGC and SOC for making us both feel welcome at our first few meetings in Aberdeen.
It is also important to remember that age does not necessarily bestow wisdom. Some younger members may not just be 'newbies', they may have a lot of experience, and insights gained from this, they would like to share.
Gardening I feel has always suffered from reverse ageism. I realise that at 39 I am about to fall out of the younger gardner set and into the older gardner grouping. I will let you know if my thoughts on the matter change next summer. Though I would still like to know at what age it is acceptable to slap someone on the behind and tell them to move. ;)
-
Maggi, no criticism intended just bouncing ideas around.
Notifications to Colleges, if you are lucky, get stuck on an already crowded notice board and in an inferior place to the notice advertising the Fresher's pub crawl, and if you are unlucky they get chucked in a waste paper bin. Been there, done that!! Only the committed will a) be aware of the Web Site, and b) take a look at it, so we need a bit of lateral thinking of the mountains and Mohammed variety.
If, for example and as a start, each Horticultural College in Scotland were to be allocated a SRGC contact and the individual contact was able to make it possible to have a table in the SU Bar near to the beginning of term with all the publicity about membership and particularly about grants and free subscriptions then that might just work. If this could be added to with a prize ( free beer for a fortnight) for the best planted alpine trough or container then that might work too.
Ok, I know, it's labour intensive; it's another job for volunteers; etc. The question is is it for a worth while cause?
-
Only the committed will a) be aware of the Web Site, and b) take a look at it,
Really ?!! when I was thinking about student Grants, I would have searched high and low around the interent ( if it had existed then!!) to find Grant giving bodies ...... it seems the relevant web site, which I cannot remember now, is search area numero uno for money hungry students... it's a central type thing which lists Grant opportunities for practically anything!
-
Perhaps some of our younger members could reply?
I am sorry, i just stumbled across this thread today. I have been busy these last days and only had time to read diagonally most of the posts. I really wish i had more time, but right now I am preparing all the requirements and also filling the application forms aiming to enter the school of horticulture at Kew (Kew diploma or in second though it could be the Traineeship course as well). Meanwhile I'm also having a lot of work structuring my own garden before I leave... so this mean that from now on all climbers, bushes and trees will be planted on the ground, thus sparing my poor mother on having to water those during my absence.
Anyway, I totally agree with the fact that many people only start to get interested in plants and gardening after their mid thirties, or sometimes later. I wish I could find out which factors do trigger their interest in the plant kingdom. I have a few friends that suddenly got interested in gardening and I always ask them why this sudden interest. They fail to give me an overall satisfactory answer... So it is still a mystery why people's interest in horticulture rampantly increase all of the sudden and out from nothing.
Regarding the youngsters, I agree they do have a busy life. But for whatever reasons that keep them busy, they often fail to realise how life is in reality, and due to their minor responsibilities, lack of experience and sometimes immaturity, I guess they start to plan the ideal life they would like to have, and they firmly stick to that metal schedule believing that things will be like that. And I guess plants don't play a major role on that sketch (unless it is a Cannabis sativa or Erythroxylum coca lol). It seems that only Carnivorous plants can be "interesting enough" to capture their attention as i have been on a lot of Forums dedicated to these plants, and they have a lot of younger people.
Sadly I sometimes find this a bit snobbish... Insectivorous plants are plants first and then, only then, they are carnivorous. So if they are like a Daphne or a Fritillaria, they were supposed to be as interesting. If things were like this, I bet that there would be a lot more younger people participating on forums about other kinds of plants.
Now speaking about myself, I always wanted to have a job related to Botany, and I made up my mind very early regarding this issue. When I finished my secondary graduation, I suffered a lot of pressure from family, friends and some acquaintances, as they advised me to follow other career and only grow plants as a mere hobbie, because in their minds the kind of job I wanted to pursue seemed uninteresting and not very promising on it's potential income. My mother for instance, she wanted me to do Pharmacy, Biochemestry or Medicine. But I always found the strength and resisted to all these persuasions. I have thought a lot about my future career in the past and I must confess sometimes one feels tempted to pick up an option that seems to be safer in terms of available vacancies at the work market and aiming for a promising wage as well. But just the idea of sitting on a chair and being on the office all day long hearing people complaining about their health problems and having to deal with that is frightening. So, yes, I had chosen botany/horticulture because it is what i like to do and what makes my life pleasurable and joyfull. Having said that, I guess I do not need anything else, do I? So far, I don't know how my future will be, but whatever path it decides to take I know I will not regret the decision i had made.
Sometimes i joke with my mother and I say to her that even in the case I fail and have no option other than living in a house like this:
(http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/10412135.jpg)
...I surely will make the garden of the neighbouring palace look shameful!! :P
-
Ok, I know, it's labour intensive; it's another job for volunteers; etc. The question is is it for a worth while cause?
Well that is the 64 thousand dollar question for every Club and every task, isn't it? :-\There is a list of vacant positions or positions about to be vacant, in the Club.....not too many names coming forward for those jobs and that's the problem, isn't it? :'(
Michael, well said! And you know. I hope, that all of us here applaud your choice and wish you every success!
-
This is a great thread and it's terrific to read stories like yours Michael - best of luck.
Simon, regretfully I've rarely been slapped on the bum by ladies. :'( However, I take your point. Susan and I used to speculate that show attendees, especially the most harmless looking little female ones, have giant pencil sharpeners at home which they use to make their elbows suitably rib-endangering before entering the scrum around the show benches. And as for the sales tables..... wear a Kevlar vest if you are going near ;)
We don't notice this so much now, perhaps we no longer look like we are young enough to be dangerous or in the wrong building by mistake.
-
These are truly heartwarming stories of young people reaching for a dream to become a reality....
It would be wonderful if more young people had the opportunity to be so inspired against the odds.
Congratulations on your place at Kew Michael, I do hope we will hear about your experiences there...when you have time ;)
-
I've only come across this topic now (the forum has far too much interesting info and is best avoided during exam time ::), which thankfully has finished today).
Even here in South Africa, young plants people are few and far between. As mentioned by others, there are plenty of other areas where younger people have to concentrate on first before having the time and funding to concentrate on plants. A big factor for me is the fact that I study approx. 500km from home and commute during term time and holidays. It's difficult trying to maintain and build a collection that's split over a number of places, especially as for example I will be in Johannesburg for 2 and a half months and the part of my collection in Pietermaritzburg cannot be hauled up with me (luckily it's just about all indigenous material that subsists fine on the natural rainfall and doesn't require much maintainence).
I wonder if as people get older and settle down, they begin to personalise their space, as it is. Once you have a house, I would think an extension of having a nice house is keeping a good-looking garden and the gardening 'gene' gets switched on due to this influence??
-
I became plant-mad before I was a teenager, so I have always been considered a bit weird by my friends and family. I have never known when it started. My grandfather offered to take me to London to see the sights at the age of 10, and even at that age I requested a day-trip to Kew instead! Like Michael, family persuasion was strongly against horticulture as a career, but it never stopped it as a hobby for me.
I agree completely with the various comments about day-to-day life taking over when in ones 20s and 30s, although I did still manage two plant-hunting trips to the top of Monte Baldo by Lake Garda during my honeymoon aged 28.
Subscriptions to the AGS and SRGC came in my 30s initially for the Seed Exchange, but the wonderful Journals kept my standing order going. The Forum of course did not exist when I first joined.
Could we get an occasional (or maybe regular) article in the Journal featuring a different, but informative and practical forum thread? It would have to be carefully edited down to the essentials, but would bring the Forum to a wider audience at the same time as offering practical advice?
I only ventured as far as a Local Group in my late 40s and my first impression was that I had entered an old peoples’ home!. Too many “oldies” are too diffident and retiring. It is only when I start talking that I am amazed to discover the most unlikely looking white-haired person in the corner of the room is an expert in Juno Iris culture, or treks in Kazakhstan every summer, or has just come back from a relaxing orchid trip to Crete.
I am not surprised to hear that 5 out of 6 new members join via the website. The key is definitely to keep the spark of interest going through mid life till one has more spare time to rekindle serious interest. The Website, the Forum, the Seed Exchange, and most importantly to me the Journal are all essentials in this.
-
Could we get an occasional (or maybe regular) article in the Journal featuring a different, but informative and practical forum thread? It would have to be carefully edited down to the essentials, but would bring the Forum to a wider audience at the same time as offering practical advice?
Richard, this very suggestion was made the other day by Anthony Darby, here:
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4472.msg119948#msg119948
It is something that the Web Team has been giving thought to and we will see what can be done... I hope/expect the Editor would be happy enough to receive such articles (which would tend to being photo-based for the most part), since the recent photo essays in the Journal have proved very popular.
Perhaps it would be an idea to start a thread where Forumists could post their suggestions for which threads in particular they would like to see prepared for the Journal?
-
Yes, Maggi, I had read Antony's post to put a thread in the Journal and it made good sense - hence my repetition of it - though apologies for not giving him the credit again.
I think much of the strength of the Forum is in the shared knowledge and this is often better than one person's view in a traditional article. Maggi's idea is great, so lets have some suggestions for possible articles. Can I offer my first suggestion as the Sternbergia naming puzzle?
-
Can I offer my first suggestion as the Sternbergia naming puzzle?
Crikey, now that would be a challenge to compile! I hope some of the suggestions are easier than that or we'll never get any volunteers to prepare them! ;D
I'll copy this stuff to a new thread, to highlight it...... :)
..... Okay,,, it's here: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4497.new#new 8)
-
How did the AGS meeting go yesterday?
-
I haven't heard, Mark. Recruitment of members is obviously a subject of some anxiety to all organisations and with the high expenses of the AGS it must be a particular worry to have falling membership numbers.
-
They must have spent a load of money bringing in two members of each group to the meeting
-
They must have spent a load of money bringing in two members of each group to the meeting
Well, if they were paying expenses for them, yes, indeed....but perhaps they thought that was the only way to get folk to come? There was no chance offered to members who are not "attached" to local groups to attend of course, or even notification to allow submissions to the meeting... so those of us who are members outside England were disenfranchised. :(
-
As far as I'm aware there was no suggestion of expenses being paid, apart from lunch being provided.
-
I better shut up before I get hung, drawn ... :-X
-
There were two main aspects the Symposium was to address (a) membership issues in general including recruitment and retention and (b) relations between Local Groups and to quote the paper requesting attendees "Central AGS". The use of which sums up the nature of the issue ;D
-
As far as I'm aware there was no suggestion of expenses being paid, apart from lunch being provided.
There were two main aspects the Symposium was to address (a) membership issues in general including recruitment and retention and (b) relations between Local Groups and to quote the paper requesting attendees "Central AGS". The use of which sums up the nature of the issue
That's a relief! Though there's no such thing as a free lunch, is there ? ::)
Yup, you've got that right, the whole problem is encapsulated right there in "Central AGS" :P >:(
-
No amount of talk or bringing groups together will increase membership. We have discussed it already - adults are too busy and think alpine growers are experts and know long plant names. Younger people are gaming addicts. The young guy up my street who used to come and ask to come in and help is now 1st year and no longer interested.
-
I became plant-mad before I was a teenager, so I have always been considered a bit weird by my friends and family. I have never known when it started. My grandfather offered to take me to London to see the sights at the age of 10, and even at that age I requested a day-trip to Kew instead! Like Michael, family persuasion was strongly against horticulture as a career, but it never stopped it as a hobby for me.
Richard, I totally understand that, as I also had a similar background. But what really made me take this decision is the fear of failure.
I realised that if I took something else besides Botany or Horticulture, no matter how high the degree of successfulness throughout my life could possibly be, the lack of fulfilment would soon overwhelm me and then frustration start to take over... And I do firmly believe that if you have a genuine passion for what you do, it is impossible to fail no matter what ;)
-
How did the AGS meeting go yesterday?
I'll give you more feedback later but the meeting was a positive affair on the whole. A chance to put faces to some names and dispel a few myths and misinformations. The event seems to have been stimulated by members who have recently joined main commitee. Val Lee summed up with the view that Commitee spends too much time looking back and needs to focus on the future not the past.
Expenses - 1 set of travel expenses per group as if 2 or more members travel together. I covered 400 miles and would not have gone without expenses. It was clear that a good attendance was being encouraged - the food was ok too especially the chocolate cake :)
-
Tony - did anyone from North Lancs show up? I'm not on the committee at the moment.
Mark, A succinct and (depressingly) accurate summing up I think!
If modern adults are too busy then it is self-inflicted (want..want...want...) and i have little sympathy. Like their children they want instant gratification without having to do something as frightening as having to think. Even if I lecture to garden groups I get people who approach and ask how I remember all those names. Personally I'm amazed when people can't. They are just a string of syllables like any other word and i see no difference between remembering those names and remembering the other new words we encounter every day. Perhaps they fill their brains with celebrity gossip or something?
Oops, I'm ranting again....
calm down Darren... deep breaths...
see what happens when I injure myself & do no yoga for a couple of weeks? Another week of this and it'll be rubber room time.
-
Another week of this and it'll be rubber room time.
Shall I sent you the building specs. of mine, Darren? :-X
-
Tony - did anyone from North Lancs show up? I'm not on the committee at the moment.
Mark, A succinct and (depressingly) accurate summing up I think!
If modern adults are too busy then it is self-inflicted (want..want...want...) and i have little sympathy. Like their children they want instant gratification without having to do something as frightening as having to think.
Darren - I was not aware of anyone from N Lancs but that does not mean they were not there.
Feedback on the AGS day does not really belong here - although there was one delegate under 20, the members were all agreed that the young are not the best chance for the future of local groups.
Not wanting to have to think is just one of the many malaises of modern society .... don't get me started! However I do sometimes feel that my brain is full :P This problem rarely stops me from remembering plant names but I do have trouble with peoples names, even if I only got introduced 5 minutes ago ???
-
Selective bad memory Tony!
-
Feedback on the AGS day does not really belong here - although there was one delegate under 20, the members were all agreed that the young are not the best chance for the future of local groups.
Not wanting to have to think is just one of the many malaises of modern society .... don't get me started! However I do sometimes feel that my brain is full :P This problem rarely stops me from remembering plant names but I do have trouble with peoples names, even if I only got introduced 5 minutes ago ???
Well, if that was the feeling "the members were all agreed that the young are not the best chance for the future of local groups" and there was only one person under 20 ( are you sure he was meant to be there, hadn't just wandered in, following the smell of chocolate cake?).... then it doesn't help this discussion , I agree! :(
-
Do schools have fundraising days where they have cake stalls, white elephant stalls etc?
If so, maybe there could occasionally be a stall for various club members to show off some wares, sell raffle tickets for a few plants and answer questions.
I know if there had been something like that at school fetes when I was a kid I would have developed the itch right there and then.
Plus there are lots of parents attend, I bet there would be quite a line up at the display table.
-
Yes - there is a school of thought (sorry!) which suggests that if you can hook the kids you might catch the parents. But it does not address the issue of 21st Century lifestyles!
-
Wow! What a thread has became from my question! :o
Now I think I also should say something about myself, young or not. Sometimes I disappear, and don't come to the Forum for weeks long. That's not because I'm bored or something. It's just because I have much to do, and I simply don't dare to open the Forum, because than I sit here for half a day and my "duties" are left for tomorrow and tomorrow, and so on. ;D I simply don't know how some of You have so much time for reading and writing here.
Maybe my problem is, that the nights are not for me. I have an arthritis disease, that causes - besides pain - that in the evening at about 10 pm. I'm ALWAYS awfully tired. OK, sorry, I did not want to bore You with my health problems.
Interest for plants fell into my life at about 30-32. (So before 35 ;D ;D)
Neither Hungary (at least nowadays), nor my family was famous about gardening, so I hadn't it in my blood.
I simply began to realise more and more that people in general are not so interesting, not so reliable and not so good as they seem to be, and that the beauties of nature and plants can't be exceeded by nothing, not even by art, which I was always interested in. OK, this "revelation" took several years for me. But I've also discovered since than, that people who love and cultivate plants, not for or not only for money but also for their joy, are more lovely and also more friendly than the others. (I have to mention again: in general. There are exceptions on both sides, I know that.)
But I think, in fact does not matter what does one make: gardening, painting, music, building, children educating or whatever, and does not matter if it is a hobby or a matter of livelihood, important is to make it with pleasure, and to find in it the sense of one's life. That's what many people are not able to find in a lifetime. I know many of those...
Anyway, I think that plants are the best of all hobbies ;D ;D
-
Katherine - I absolutely agree with you. To my mind, most people and the things they want so much seem so artificial and can never be as beautiful as the natural world and I just wish more folk could see that.
Susan and I visited Budapest two years ago and greatly enjoyed it. Especially the cakes at Gerbauds...
-
Kata, your comments are spoken from the heart and I feel the same as you about Nature, plants and people who have this deeper appreciation of the gifts we have for free whenever we learn to enjoy them in our lifetime, young or not so young :D
If you ever come to this area I will take you to the thermal pools - a wonderful relief for aches and pains 8)
-
Susan and I visited Budapest two years ago and greatly enjoyed it. Especially the cakes at Gerbauds...
:D :D :D
-
Wow! What a thread has became from my question! :o
I simply began to realise more and more that people in general are not so interesting, not so reliable and not so good as they seem to be, and that the beauties of nature and plants can't be exceeded by nothing, not even by art, which I was always interested in. OK, this "revelation" took several years for me. But I've also discovered since than, that people who love and cultivate plants, not for or not only for money but also for their joy, are more lovely and also more friendly than the others. (I have to mention again: in general. There are exceptions on both sides, I know that.)
But I think, in fact does not matter what does one make: gardening, painting, music, building, children educating or whatever, and does not matter if it is a hobby or a matter of livelihood, important is to make it with pleasure, and to find in it the sense of one's life. That's what many people are not able to find in a lifetime. I know many of those...
Anyway, I think that plants are the best of all hobbies ;D ;D
I can agree with so much of what you say. The last three sentances especially. You put it very well. Thank you!
You should visit Robin - the welcome will be even warmer than the water :)
-
Being 39 might make me young or at least younger than some. I feel that even though this is a very nice place, I was a bit uneasy in the beginning. This is a specialist society and not for a special type of plant but rather a special way of doing gardening. I have an interest in bulbs, hepatica and iris (though the latter is not obviously something for the club even though it now has a section of its own).
People might grow plants but might take time to develop into a special way of growing and there is an elitism around gardening and garden amateurs (in the old meaning of non professional specialists) that rock gardening is for the most experienced, since it takes a time to fill a garden and after that a rockery helps You grow a lot of different / difficult hard-to-get plants.
Some people has chosen to call that they grow like this to have the growing as close as possible to the natural environment and that approach might be more attractive to younger people.
Growing in troughs might actually be a way to have a nicer garden in a smaller space than what we ourself grew up in. At least here the gardens are getting smaller in the cities than they were when I was a child.
The fact is that here are threads about the common plants as well and the very relaxed attitude on the forum about what plants to show here have made me join the club even though I see myself a gardener/ planter rather than a rock gardener. I do like plants that also grow well in a rockery but most plants are more common and I might have been more at ease in "gardeners are us" or what ever they might be called garden organisation for people that would like to have grass that cuts itself and hedges growing without needing to be cut. They might like nice plants but maybe in the beginning people buy bigger things rather than a small bulb? Later they might buy bulbs as well but often like me the ones in the supermarket with 10 for 1€ or so rather than 1 for 10€. A nice plant in a normal garden society is a common one here so there is sometimes harder to be accepted here than in other forums due to the skill that many has. It takes some time to appreciate the small differences in some plants and the training here on the forum and bulb logs and Wesley logs help teaching the differences and helps to show the detail that open up a new world for us beginners in some new fields. In other fields of gardening we might be more experienced.
If the society can have a relaxed view on what people grow and how so that people might have some common grounds it is easier to joining and later go towards more specialised way of growing. I have seen comments on the Swedish forums that they are not good enough to join some of the Swedish societies since in the old days it was and to some still is elitist. I understand that the goal of growing for shows is to develop growing techniques and plants but might also make people think I like the plants but could not do it myself so these things might be a twigged sword so to say. (or the coin has two sides).
Regarding finding stipends it is not easy to find the right ones when looking and most people go and look where others have found before them rather than trying to find a new one.
Regarding slap on the bum I sometime see it here as well and generally from an older man on a younger man/boy. It can be comments like check in a book that would not have come to a novice in a field with gray hair. I have not got any such response but have seen others getting so I think sometimes there is a reverse ageism. Then again silence might be even worse that a slap. (No comments on pictures or questions).
The forum has gained a lot of members from specialised plant areas like pleone and galathus that might not be typical "first in mind" type of rock plants and there might be other groups that works in a similar way. The alpine part is not the biggest part of the forum (far from it). Is the club also like this or it the club more into alpines/rockgardening with only traditional plants as topics for the talks of the meetings?
I am in no way saying that SRGC should be changing its name and style but maybe think about some of the things like specialist groups / plants.
Sorry for the very long post
Kind regards
Joakim
-
Joakim,
I think you have identified many of the great strengths of the online SRGC. It is a very diverse place with room for beginner and specialist, even cooks. This range of interests could hardly be accommodated in a traditional club setting but here it is perfectly feasible.
I am not one of the specialist growers. Indeed, I give as much time and gain as much enjoyment from growing vegetables as from growing alpine plants. Trees, shrubs and herbaceous perennials cover most of my garden and I enjoy these very much. Of latter years I have become an accidental holder of a collection of snowdrops, initially a collection passed into my care by my wife and then added to in extremely generous manner by friends both off and on this forum and so I take a particular interest and enjoyment in the snowdrop.
Regarding "experts" who are unsympathetic to beginners, it is my belief that while they may consider themselves experts they have not in fact gained the experience of years when they would have learned that plants and nature in general makes fools of us all, a little like the saying, "The more I know, the more I know I don't know." - I know enough to know I don't know everything.
The images below are the first and part of the second page of Reginald Farrer's "My Rock Garden" and display the attitude of an experienced alpine grower. Thankfully, there are many, many such on this forum.
Paddy
-
:-X
-
Chris,
A very thoughtful and thought-provoking contribution to this discussion and I will comment on just a few of your ideas.
I would certainly be happy to receive the twice-yearly journal as a pdf file. It would save the club some money and save me storing a journal I am unlikely to read more than once. There is a stack of AGS journals here which I am unlikely to read again but am slow to throw out. If they were available online it would be sufficient for my needs. Likewise, I am unlikely to attend any SRGC meetings or shows and if both of these led to a reduced membership contribution I would not object at all. However, I have previously been a member of the RHS and the AGS and, in the past year, have allowed both of these memberships to lapse as I found the online SRGC gave me more enjoyment and interaction with fellow gardeners than both of the other societies and, with this in mind, I am more than happy to pay the full membership rate. The SRGC online is, for me, an excellent gardening club. There is no local gardening club here in Waterford with a strong active gardening community (mainly a social club for those even older than I where tea and cakes are more important than gardening). The nearest alpine group is in Dublin, 100 miles away. There is a hardy plant/alpine group in Cork, 80 miles away and Mary and I attend winter talks when possible and I see Ashley who travels a similar distance from the opposite direction there occasionally. The nearest SRGC members are Ashley - about 150 miles away; Michael Campbell - 130 miles away; Mark Smyth - 200 miles away, so Lesley, Paul T, Rogan, Cohan, JohnW, Robin, and my many special and generous snowdrop friends, to name a few, though scattered across the globe are as near to me as my nearest gardening neighbours here in Ireland. The SRGC membership contribution is well worth the benefits it brings. It has brought all these - and many more - wonderful people into my life and I enjoy their company very much.
So, Chris, what you say about web-based activity is so very true and the SRGC is, in my mind, leading the way and showing other societies how it should be done though, to be perfectly honest, I believe the strength is not in the format of the website but in the people who "man" (can't somehow say "woman") the site. The strength of this site is in the people and the very personal and friendly manner in which this site is run. One meets friends here not simply other people who share a common interest. I have received many unsolicited and unannounced gifts of bulbs and seeds in the post from friends on this site. Where else in the world would that happen? Yes, indeed, the SRGC rocks!
Paddy
-
Paddy you have a great way of expressing the meaning of this unique Forum, because unique it is in so many ways as you describe. Although there is always room for improvement within an organisation essentially the people are what makes it tick. Without the friendliness, interest and generosity of people the whole thing is souless. There are a thousand ways of finding out information on the web if you do the right search but where can you guarantee a question will be answered and followed up within minutes and someone cares enough to do some research into a problem that is not solvable on your own. Add to the melting pot all the expertise and hints and tips and the Global Moderation to keep the whole machine running in an efficient and worthwhile way and there you have a reason for paying a modest sum for being part of the whole - Membership is commitment :D
-
Just seen this thread.
I am a younger member ( I"m only 58 ;D ;D ;D )
Eric
-
Stand in the corner and stop being such a smart ass, young Locke.
You're an old fogie - I'm only 56, youngest in our local garden club for nearly 30 years.
Paddy
-
:-X
-
I'm glad you mentioned the work you are doing for the Seed ID project, Chris.... this is a terrific contribution to the work of the Club in this matter for which we are very grateful.
It is the case that several Forum Members, while not actual SRGC Members , do contribute to the SRGC
( without whose financial backing this place would not exist) in "kind", so to speak.... they work for the Seed ID project like Chris, or they contribute seed to the Seed Exchange....... and all such assistance for the Club is very much appreciated, I assure you.
The discussions in these pages are enlightening and I will be sure to have the comments and suggestions made here and in other similar pages, and those sent already to me, brought to the attention of the Council.
Duty bound though, to say here, as in the "Are you an SRGC Member" thread.... if you like this forum and you are not a full SRGC member then please do consider joining the Club. The Journal is great and there's the Seed exchange too.. :)
-
Hristo, I was just about to write about how much I considered input, like yours and Simon's, as an equally important way of contributing to the Club and enriching it with knowledge and information in a specialist way - your plant hunts and rare plant growing is just that and I personally have learnt a tremendous amount through your field trips which have been so inclusive and tolerant of novice questions. The Seed ID project is a remarkable undertaking and is a tremendous commitment too for all those concerned.
It is wonderful that so much information is generally free online but often you have to pay to get anything more than basic information on a subject - the open and welcoming nature of the SRGC Forum allows one to evaluate what you gain from the pages without pressure to commit, only gentle reminders! It is up to the individual to decide whether to be paying Member or not..I think that is very fair and should encourage willing Membership. I take your point about students and those abroad who cannot access the full benefits of Membership and do think that these could be addressed differently in a more user friendly way.
The internet is the way forward for communities and likeminded people to get-together and exchange views and I think the future of information technology is very exciting - before joining this Forum I was very sceptical about 'virtual gardening' but it is growing on me!
-
:-X
-
Chris makes a point above which I think should be central to the thoughts of the committee of the SRGC or any other similar organisation. He says that we should think as non-members when considering how to attract members, trying to figure out what it is the non-member wants and seeing if the club can provide that. Of course, there is also the consideration of marketing the product as it stands at present - believing that the SRGC is an excellent club as it stands and provides an excellent service and source of recreation to many already and convince non-members that they too would enjoy membership.
I will reiterate that, in my opinion, the success of the online SRGC is not because of organisational decisions but because of the people involved in running the site. It is the personal touch and not the organisation which has been so effective and successful.
Paddy
-
I take your point about students and those abroad who cannot access the full benefits of Membership and do think that these could be addressed differently in a more user friendly way.
Robin made this comment in relation to what Chris said and this is the thought that immediately stuck me.... yes, there are aspects of the club : the local group meetings and the shows, that cannot be accessed by overseas members, but the website provides, in many ways, much more than that anyway..... the show reports here are often very extensive, and the other reports, travel etc. are so widespread and numerous as to provide the equivalent of a local meeting every other day, or a virtual Journal every few weeks! So I would state that as a reason why Membership of the SRGC, to support ALL the work the Club does, is worthwhile.
Without the financial backing of the Club, this site would not exist in this form and so all the overseas members would again be disenfranchised and the free access would disappear.
The aim of the open access to this site is to encourage everyone to take an interest.... whether they can afford to join the club or not.... but I see it as my duty to remind anyone reading who could afford the modest annual fee that it would, if nothing else, be ethical to support this resource! 8)
-
I am aware of newspaper websites where some of the information is available to all while other parts require a subscription to be paid for access. If the SRGC needs/wants to gain a financial commitment from 'web-only' members then this avenue might be one to consider. The web subscription could be lower to reflect overall lower costs of this category of member. As we move from a time at present when web using members are a (possible small) minority of the total to a time (5-20 years?) when the balance has shifted to a majority thiese considerations will become more and more relevant. As Simon says : to fail to prepare is to prepare to fail
As an aside, the Crocus Group of which I am Secretary, is moving to email newsletters. With no other overheads, if we can get all the membership onto email newsletters do we need to charge a subscription at all?
-
As an aside, the Crocus Group of which I am Secretary, is moving to email newsletters. With no other overheads, if we can get all the membership onto email newsletters do we need to charge a subscription at all?
An interesting aside.....
I very much doubt that many members would be pleased, or indeed able to receive an email version of the Journal in their inbox, Tony! The file is huge!
There is a considerable difficulty, from a practical viewpoint, of the number of times some people change their email address.... given that we have members who forget for months or years that they have moved house.... only suddenly realising somewhere down the line that they have had no communication from the Club or that their Subscription is not paid, then the possiblilites of successfully emailling everyone becomes remote! Graham Bunkal is a marvel and achieves great results, but contacting people who are no longer where he's been told they are , is beyond even his talents!
-
Bulb Despot just had this thought, to bypass the problems with emaill addresses being up to date etc: Journal and other info could be available to download on the website, by members, from a restricted access section.
All this is not quite about attracting younger members , though, but it is useful discussion of wider matters!
-
I think Ian has the answer to some of the problem and I personally feel the same that perhaps, in this day and age, Members should be able to download the journal through Membership only access online as an option to the hard copy sent by post at increasing expense. This would reduce workload on the part of the SRGC and bring it in line with the way the Seed Exchange runs on and offline.
The Journal is a beautiful publication full of interest and wonderful colour photography - the feeling that one is reading a book is important too...maybe in the sun in the garden where the computer is less at home! It's all about choice really.
What concerns me more is that Hristo points out that there are young people who use the Forum, unseen, and have formed their own sort of free Membership Group with their own agenda and do not contribute in the Forum - in a thread like this Guys please express yourselves and ideas it would be great to have an insight into your thoughts as you are the future plants people 8)
We have some really good thoughts from those young Members who have already taken the time to contribute to this discussion and in different threads on this Forum - i can't believe you have nothing to say :o :-X
-
Bulb Despot just had this thought, to bypass the problems with emaill addresses being up to date etc: Journal and other info could be available to download on the website, by members, from a restricted access section.
All this is not quite about attracting younger members , though, but it is useful discussion of wider matters!
This is the sort of thinking that I am having. I never intended to suggest that the SGRC journal should be emailed, Ian's suggestion is good though.
The CG is a very different matter - but the world is changing fast ... can we keep up?
-
ORG&HPS have their journal online, you log into a members only area and can read it or download but it's only an 8page journal.
At this stage it is optional and they will send it out if you don't opt for the online version. I think more and more people are opting for online and saving the club lots of money.
SRGC journal is a treasure, I would hate to give up holding one in my hand while I read. It's printed on good quality paper and is a real pleasure to peruse.
Also, am wondering how the server would manage thousands of people trying to download such a big file. It would likely crash.
Just how many financial members are there?
-
I know, Helen.... many members really appreciate the quality and portability of the paper Journal!
Total SRGC financial Members stands at something over three thousand memberships, though many of these are dual/family members, taking the real total up to nearer five thousand, I think. .......
......ably illustrating that fine old proverb: "the family that digs together ... can get a bulk rate from their osteopath...." ;D
-
Since I count myself as a young member (I'm almost 30 though :D) I shall put in my two pennies worth.
I’ve been interested in plants since as long as I can remember, it’s probably something genetic since my parents always loved working in the garden too, though they are far from the plantfreak I am. My real interest in plants started with an elementary school teacher in what is here the 3th grade (I was 8-9 years old). She took our class on a trip to her garden and that got me hooked. I learned almost every basic thing there is to know about gardening from her (use of compost, how to take cuttings,…). While my interest in plants stilled a bit during my puberty (other things were occupying my mind ;D) it never stopped completely and I’ve been interested in shade loving plants and rock garden plants for a good 10 years now.
The SRGC is actually the first garden club I ever joined, and that was because of the forum. I felt really welcome here and I felt as if I could say or ask whatever I wanted without being ridiculized. The fact that the club hasn’t got many young members is dependent on a lot of factors which have all been named before:
A) you have to have an interest in plants, which a lot of young people do not have (yet) for various reasons :
1) there are other things that are more important: find a partner, enlarge their social life, buy a house,…
2) gardening takes patience, time, money and a garden; and a lot of young people don’t have those things in sufficient quantity, although
I must say I learned patience by gardening (and maybe I am an old spirit ;))
B) you need to have an interest in rock garden plants, most of the people my age I know who are starting to appreciate gardening are at the stage that they want a garden which does not cost a lot of money, is beautiful and does not take a lot of time to maintain, so they stay far away from rock garden plants (although I keep telling them that not all of them are tricky to cultivate)
C) you need to know of the existence of the club and for that the website and especially the forum is a goldmine. Like I said I joined the SRGC two years ago because of the forum and a lot of the plantspeople I know in Belgium are lurkers here.
The internet is the way to the future indeed. I think it’s a good idea to offer the Journal as a web-based journal too for the members.
I have a subscription to the CPS which is web-based (because it is cheaper) and I must say that I like holding the journal I read instead of staring at a computer screen reading something but maybe that’s my old spirit again.
I feel that the forum is one of the most important parts of the website and of the club for an overseas member. So I cannot not express my gratitude enough for those that make it possible to talk with plantlovers from all over the world and to ask questions that are more than often answered within a day.
-
Wim, thanks for your comments..... I must show my ignorance.... what is the CPS, please?
-
Maggi,
I'm sorry, should have put the full name: the CPS is the "Carnivorous Plant Society"
-
Maggi,
I'm sorry, should have put the full name: the CPS is the "Carnivorous Plant Society"
Thank heaven for that ,I thought it could be the criminal prosecution service. ;D ;D ;D
-
Maggi,
I'm sorry, should have put the full name: the CPS is the "Carnivorous Plant Society"
Thank heaven for that ,I thought it could be the criminal prosecution service. ;D ;D ;D
Bad conscience, Eric? ;) ;)
-
Maggi,
I'm sorry, should have put the full name: the CPS is the "Carnivorous Plant Society"
Thank heaven for that ,I thought it could be the criminal prosecution service. ;D ;D ;D
Bad conscience, Eric? ;) ;)
Certainly not Wim ,it was just the first thought that came to mind on reading it :)
And I always like to joke ;)
Eric
-
Maggi,
I'm sorry, should have put the full name: the CPS is the "Carnivorous Plant Society"
Thank heaven for that ,I thought it could be the criminal prosecution service. ;D ;D ;D
Bad conscience, Eric? ;) ;)
Certainly not Wim ,it was just the first thought that came to mind on reading it :)
And I always like to joke ;)
Eric
I knew those initials reminded me of something :-X ::) ;D
-
Wim,
An excellent contribution to this discussion, Paddy
-
I agree with Paddy, Wim, a real contribution that is very constructive and positive :D
-
Thanks Paddy and Robin. I feel it's more a summary of what the people here said about the topic though.
-
Fascinating discussion folks. My own take is that a Web based Society (SRGC) will surely come in time and the art will be in planning and budgeting for the change in order to allow it to happen in a seamless and fully thought out way. The Society that achieves this will continue to prosper and the Society that fails will fall by the wayside.
I don't know, but would think that the printing and mailing of the Journal is perhaps the largest amount of expenditure the Club incurs and if it is then it is here that savings could be made or be diverted towards the costs of other initiatives. Yet, as has rightly been said, some Members have not wished to harness new technology and never will, whilst others are happy to try and this is fine in the short term but can not apply in the longer term.
Although, in the main part, I have harnessed the technology, I do not get a great deal of pleasure in reading more than just a few pages of an article or document on my computer screen, and, unless pushed, I doubt if I ever will. So the Journal is something to savour over a cup of coffe, or, much preferably, a glass of something stronger on days when I can't get outside. But, I recognise that the change will come and I have to be ready for it too.
-
Yes, David, costs for printing and mailing the twice yearly Journal are about the highest expenditure the Club has ..... it would be higher yet if our Editor, who is a volunteer, like the rest of us, received a salary as happens in other societies :-X
-
I too like to hold my journal ... there are places you cannot take the computer ... the experience is better on paper so-to-speak. I hope the printed journal never dies. If journals like this go what future for books? Music has gone from vinyl through tape to CD, DVD, MP3, iPod in my brief lifetime. There are manuscripts written hundreds of years ago that still survive to be played today, will todays music be heard in 200 years time? Will digital books still be readable? .... Am I just an old fogey ??? ;)
My current thought is that there could / should be an e-membership rate, at a lower charge. It could include eligibility for the seed-ex as an incentive to pay the fee. These members would not receive anything by post (except the seed they have paid for if using the seed exchange.) I suspect that right now the extra members will be relatively few but I would expect them to rise considerably in number in future.
-
Excellent thoughts everyone - but it is obvious where this is leading as Tony points out. I am computer literate - like all of us - and I must have the paper Journal (as many have already said) for ease of use whilst computers are still inconvenient. I will maintain my subscription at the full price just to get it in that format, as well as entry to the shows that I am lucky enough to be within travelling distance of etc etc.
However electronic books are already available with the actual computer hardware coming in a small book-sized format. But until that is available to everyone the paper version wins hands down.
There are many Forumists who have no other contact with the club, and may or may not be Club members. It would be only fair that Forum-only users to pay sufficient to at least maintain the Website and Forum, inculding probably a share of club overheads to cover Maggi's time etc. Presumably we are all able to pay online?
Why not decide on a suitably low subscription rate, and let anyone join the Forum free of charge for a limited time, but then limit access after 6 months or a year (say) unless a payment is made. We all make much of our friendliness, knowledge and expert advice, but non-paying freeloaders and lurkers must accept that knowledge has a price - even if modest.
The flip side of this is that an email address would have to be given privately to the Forum Moderator and someone could then contact those who lapsed their membership after the free period to give them the personal approach and suggest that they pay to join up seriously. This is the demonstrating the "going the extra mile" approach of the Club, and should be difficult to refuse.
Hope this is not too provocative, it is not meant to be, but if we offer a unique service then I hope that most would recognise that and pay their way.
-
I am wondering what would happen to the cost of printing the journal if half the members decided to download it.
Would it cost more to print fewer journals?
-
What an interesting thread.
You are quite right, Helen, printing costs for small quantities are not feasible. And a large magazine put on line would be a very big file, and not easy to download or read on line. However, if its what people want, I think its worth investigating, and I'm sure Ian is doing just that. Whatever it takes to increase our membership we must try to do.
But our existing membership includes many people that have yet to discover the delights of this forum, some because they simply have not embraced internet technology and actually don't have a computer, others who do, but don't feel computer literate enough to come here, and a number who simply don't feel they have the time. So the printed version of our magazine is likely to last quite a long time yet I think.
What I scratch my head over though is the fact that there is a massive baby boom generation about to retire, but our memberships are declining. These are the very people, it is suggested in this thread, who do gravitate towards hobbies such as gardening. So if there are more of them in this age group, why isn't membeship increasing? It doesn't make sense to me.
Others have also said that a very similar situation exists in all the gardening groups - AGS and HPS, so it is a trend.
I know that's off piste so to speak, as this thread is talking about young members, but it is an issue nevertheless and somewhat related to things that have been said.
-
Good point, Helen, often it can cost more to print less, as you rightly say. :P
Richard,
There are no website costs for anybody's time, we are volunteers. Fred does any high tech stuff / programming for a fraction of what his commercial fee would be, for which I hope everyone is extremely grateful, and he volunteers the rest.
A very few SRGC Office Bearers receive a small honorarium to cover out of pocket expenses etc, but there are no employees of the club.
I do what I do for the Forum and for the other website related things, preparing content, dealing with email enquiries and so on, in the same spirit as I do what I can for my local SRGC Group.... because it's there! ;)
Website costs are mostly paying for servers , bandwidth etc. which with the traffic on the site, is increasing all the time.
-
You're right, Christine, we cannot talk about attracting younger members without talking about membership generally.
I do take some solace from the fact that I hear from all sorts of other clubs and societies that they are struggling to keep up membership numbers, too. I do believe that it is a trend of the moment; our hope must be that as with all "trends" this apathy for joining clubs will pass and a new enthusiasm be found. When that happens, a strong internet presence is surely going to be a great beginning to foster interest , as various members have said.
Onwards, and upwards.... the Forum is managing that, at least! 8) 8)
-
Congratulations to the SRGC on their 1000th Member! A real high spot as Maggi rightly says. I'm sure who ever it is will be delighted with their T -shirt.....another good innovation (along with the Polo shirts and Tote Bags) for advertising the Club which I have had comments on whilst wearing ;D
I do feel that with Christmas coming a Club Membership would make a great present too and I have a couple of friends in mind. So what I'm trying to say is that there are lots of ways, however small that awareness of the Club can be fostered and enjoyed :D
The internet is the way forward for Clubs to survive, I have no doubt, and internet advertising will be huge in the future - I think this is an area which could be looked into more deeply - at the moment only a few advertisers are in the banner on the Forum. This could bring in more revenue regularly and help to alleviate the pressure on the way forward for Membership fees. ::)
-
Maggi, I do appreciate the amazing amount of unpaid time and effort that you and everyone puts in. I just feel that nobody should take it for granted - especially those that drop in for free infomation. I should have said that the charge could cover the "notional" cost of time, as well as the actual cost of the website servers etc.
I know we are not a commercial organisation, but we should look at it from the point of view of "value to the end-user" rather than "cost to the club", and there is clearly much value to the Forum otherwise membership would not be increasing.
Music downloaders have embraced the concept of paying to download. Our site is not that different, and potential younger members will accept that fairly easily too. Longer serving Forumists are just not used to the idea yet !
-
Came across an E-book version of the September AGS Bulletin on the AGS web-site.
link on the homepage
http://www.alpinegardensociety.net/
also in the 'News' area
I don't know if this is simply a response to postal difficulties or something that will be repeated each edition. It does give an idea of how these things can be presented online.
-
The bulletin is here
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/6d2a2963#/6d2a2963/1 (http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/6d2a2963#/6d2a2963/1)
-
Yes, Tony, it can be downloaded as a pdf also, which I find easier than the "E-book" format ... though it may be that I just lack experience of that format and would get the hang of it after a while... I had the pages roaming all over the screen! :-[
I think it was initially a response to postal troubles but it is being considered for the future in a member's area. Idea is to leave this one on the site as a "sample" though, which seems a good idea.
-
I like reading the magazine but with time they get quite a few and since I hate to trowout magazines I would consider going for a "reduced rate" containing seed ex and access to the mag through login site.
Maybe this will make the club loose some members paying full but in time they will win many more paying reduced.
It will be easier to get people oversees to join since we do not miss anything (free entrance to events we can not visit) For those outside the UK that go to these events I am sure they will keep their full membership).
With a reduced fee it will be possible to join more societies. With reduced I would expect costs of seed ex plus a few ponds 1-2. A bargain version without the seed ex for 1-2£ to read the magazine? This may increase the numbers of members but lose some of the income?
Regarding a paid forum I prefare it to be free and maybe have more commercial info if needed? I would not join a forum that is free for a time and later costs money. I prefare to have the chose to join or not and also that it is no big pressure to join. They show the advantages with joining and that was enough for me. If pressured I would have left rather than joined.
Kind regards
Joakim
-
More interesting points from Joakim.
We have thus far resisted the temptation to have much in the way of advertising. The limited amount we can have in the scrolling banner, top right of forum pages, is a small concession and we would not like to have adverts from a major fast food firm, for examble on the site. The adverts need to be truly relevant to the SRGC membership.... most obviously, specialist nurseries and the like.
Regarding the pressure to join to participate; I do hope that my efforts from time to time to bring this matter back into the spotlight for new readers is not seen as too hard core..... it is something that really does need to be addressed from time to time as new readers come online and may not know anything about the SRGC and the provision of this Forum, having found us directly through a web search. :)
-
I only joined in the first place to get my hands on the seed exchange but quickly discovered the forum ( thanks to Maggi). I was pleasantly surprised by the quality and size of the journal when my first one arrived.
Actually, I think most of my membership fee gets eaten up by journals and postage as well as postage on the seeds.
Personally, I feel that if there was to be a reduced fee for online only, I don't think the seed exchange should be included in that price, ( not sure it should be included at all) so by the time you add extra for seeds and postage you might as well pay the full amount and get everything. That works out at roughly 42pence a week, or approximately 70cents a week US.
Overseas members get their first 16 packets of seed included in the subscription, ( non donors) whereas UK members have to pay an extra 4 pounds for the seeds.
Forgive my ramblings, I tend to type as I think :-[
I do think one of the worst things that can happen in a club is the us and them mentality, clubs need to be united to be successful.
-
Forgive my ramblings, I tend to type as I think
Seems perfect sense to me, Helen!
-
could a smaller version of the Journal be made available on-line four time a year to avoid the large file download ?
-
For regular availability on the web the file could be reduced from the full size, I believe, because the resolution needed for web viewing is not as great as that for printing.
-
I can tell you where the (potential) younger members are: they're at rock concerts, raves, Gay Pride festivities, and similar events. (The inspiration for this remark comes from an online news article this morning (which I cannot find a second time) that made passing reference to the RSPCA exploiting such venues to increase *their* membership.)
If we want to interest younger people in rock gardening (sensu very latu), it won't do to sit on our behinds and hope they come to us; we must go to them, seek them out. Outreach, in other words.
I've often thought that a display of potted treasures in a large shopping mall on, say, one Saturday a month would do more to get our passion in front of the public than pretty much any other method. This depends, of course, on mall management having a modicum of public spirit mindedness - not all do. The tired old method of posters pasted in shop windows just won't cut it any more.
-
We have thus far resisted the temptation to have much in the way of advertising. The limited amount we can have in the scrolling banner, top right of forum pages, is a small concession and we would not like to have adverts from a major fast food firm, for examble on the site. The adverts need to be truly relevant to the SRGC membership.... most obviously, specialist nurseries and the like.
Absolutely! I really wouldn't like to see all kinds of fool ads on the SRGC forum site or in the journals. And I also like to have The Rock Garden in my hand. ;) I used to read them, or just look at the pics again and again.
We here, in Eastern Europe can afford much less things as the "Westerns", our salaries/pensions are much less than Yours. Me and my husband earn together about 2000 euro/month - and this is not a bad salary here! Even so I don't consider the SRGC fee too high and I am prepared to pay it in the future even if I cannot join the meetings, just to help such a wonderful club to live.
-
Even so I don't consider the SRGC fee too high and I am prepared to pay it in the future even if I cannot join the meetings, just to help such a wonderful club to live.
That's the spirit Kata !
Exactly my thoughts ! :D
-
It's been a long time since this thread was active, but something Chris Parsons brought my attention to today made reopening it seem right....
A blog in the Guardian begins :
"Recently this blog published a post by Tom Smart bewailing young people’s preference for smart phones over tulip bulbs, blaming millennials’ lack of patience as the root cause for their lack of interest in horticulture. I’ve also come across this argument in the RHS magazine, The Garden."
...and goes on to argue that.....
" Millennials aren't too impatient to garden - we just don't have the space
Don’t accuse young people of lacking patience - we’ll have to wait decades, if ever, until we can afford a house and garden."
read more here : https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/gardening-blog/2017/apr/05/millennials-arent-too-impatient-to-garden-we-just-dont-have-the-space (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/gardening-blog/2017/apr/05/millennials-arent-too-impatient-to-garden-we-just-dont-have-the-space)
I think there's a lot of truth there- it's so hard to get a place to live now, let alone one with a garden where one can get growing....
-
As a younger person, that has been interested in horticulture/gardening since a young age I feel that schools and colleges can be the worst. In my opinion nowadays schools sadly have a very narrow minded view on what education is. Learn about plate tectonics and algebra, though important, they do not exactly inspire their students to pursue a career in what they love or find something new to be passionate about.
For example I have just finished studying horticulture at writtle, which was I would like to say, brilliant, I got so many opportunities to some some awesome things while I was there. Horticultural colleges are filled with students that all like gardening with some degree of enthusiasm, obviously. But I feel that clubs like the SRGC and AGS and others and their members have to find a way to get to promote gardening clubs too those students in various sorts of Horticultural education.
This is one small part of this issue, however, but I think it would be a step forward.
-
" Millennials aren't too impatient to garden - we just don't have the space
Don’t accuse young people of lacking patience - we’ll have to wait decades, if ever, until we can afford a house and garden."
I think there's a lot of truth there- it's so hard to get a place to live now, let alone one with a garden where one can get growing....
On the other hand, I was talking with my wife earlier this year about the low number of young gardeners, and I thought a rock garden and the typical alpine vegetation can be ideal for a balcony or perhaps a roof garden. They don't need a lot of soil, can resist drought & some neglect, and with XPS one can make lightweight rocks. If small enough, you can even take your garden with you when moving to another home.
-
This has long been a concern of mine having started running a Group(s) - both AGS and HPS - when I was one of this younger generation, and still being much the same some thirty years later (i.e: still one of the younger members, but now of the older generation!). I don't know the answer because on the whole there are divisions between the generations in all sorts of ways to do with resources and outlook. Where these are less is in a common concern for environment and conservation, and these are probably where the specialist plant societies should concentrate more - that is in sharing the knowledge and insights that they unquestionably have. This was Robert Amos' conclusion in his article 'Just how do we assess the true value of alpines?' in the AGS Journal Vol. 84, March 2016 where he says: 'If we are to have a wider impact on the conservation of alpines in their natural habitats we must make greater efforts to acknowledge their ecological value. Keeping specimen plants for showing is not a sound basis for conservation in the wild... AGS members must make a collective effort to educate both ourselves and the public of the ecological value of alpine plants... If we get this message across, positive change will happen, like in plants, from the root up.'
So this includes the 'ecological' use of alpines in gardens, viz: gardening with them - which informs and is informed by the study of them in Nature, and the propagation and dissemination of plants in cultivation to ensure less pressure on wild populations. The Seed Exchanges are fundamental in this and probably the most valuable practical aspect of the AGS, SRGC and NARGS. It includes writing articles in the media and on websites; lobbying the RHS about the value of the Specialist Plant Societies for the way they hold such long held expertise about so many plants; questioning the BBC about its coverage of alpine plants and how this could expand into the Natural History of their habitats (this is just as true of other classes of plants as it is of alpines); and practically demonstrating how alpines can be grown, as on this website and Forum, and even more by opening our gardens and using the Shows to demonstrate the practice of growing as much or more than the competition. There is nothing new about this debate - it has been going on within our societies now for five or ten years as memberships have declined. More is the sense that this can be reversed in this new interconnected world of the Internet, which sometimes seems to have the reverse effect.
-
Perhaps there is a simple answer if someone raises the question "what good are plants?" Without plants there would be no life on the Earth.