Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Bulbs General => Topic started by: Ray on September 14, 2009, 12:37:06 PM

Title: Moraea
Post by: Ray on September 14, 2009, 12:37:06 PM
A few Moraea's flowering atm bye Ray
Hi Maggi,this should be in Bulbs General but I don't know how to move it to that topic.thanks bye Ray
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Maggi Young on September 14, 2009, 12:56:49 PM
No, problem, Ray.... 'tis moved!

I DO like Moraeas.... a nice treat to see these ... they speak of sunshine!!
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on September 14, 2009, 01:06:12 PM
I agree with Maggi, Ray !
Wonderful colours !!!  :o
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Roma on September 14, 2009, 08:34:01 PM
Fantastic Moraeas, Ray.  I do wish we got enough warmth and sunshine to grow them here.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Jean-Patrick AGIER on September 15, 2009, 08:47:10 PM
Hello Ray,
 How fantastic it is to be able to grow these wonderful peacock flowers like you do! Stunning colours!
 Probably not many flowers at a time but well worth trying...
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Onion on September 15, 2009, 09:05:21 PM
A few Moraea's flowering atm bye Ray

Ray,

have you a source for the wonderful Moraea's you show us?
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Ragged Robin on September 15, 2009, 09:52:35 PM
Ray, your Moraeas are all so varied but I particularly like M villosa - the colour and patten - such lovely blues and petal shape...you obviously are an expert at growing them  ;)
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Ray on September 16, 2009, 11:39:22 AM
Hi Uli,Iget my seeds from Silverhill Seeds in the RSA and they have a good selection of species.
A couple more flowering now Bye Ray
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Onion on September 16, 2009, 07:22:39 PM
Thanks Ray for the information.
Uli
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on October 20, 2009, 01:27:52 AM
Howdy All,

I thought we had a Moraea topic in the iris section already, but I can't seem to find it.  It makes sense to me that we have them in here with the rest of the Iridaceae, but if others would prefer them elsewhere then please feel free to move this.

This is a plant I bought as Moraea aristata x M. villosa.  It looks to have characteristics of both of them.  The flower is about 5cm across.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on October 20, 2009, 08:29:39 AM
A spectacular flower Paul !!  :o :o
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Brian Ellis on October 20, 2009, 10:02:28 AM
Very striking flower Paul Wow :o
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: mark smyth on October 20, 2009, 10:10:51 AM
WOW!! :o Does it live in Zone 8?
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on October 20, 2009, 10:17:40 AM
Thanks all.

Mark,

The Moraeas do fine here, no problems with heat or cold.  Warm dry summers suit them.  I grow quite a few different ones.  Mostly if I have lost them I have lost them to neglect (i.e grass or weeds in the pot that smothered them).  The actual conditions here are pretty much perfect for them I think.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Ray on October 20, 2009, 11:55:14 AM
Hi Paul,I did start a Moraea thread in Bulbs General,and I posted a pic of Moraea villosa 3 which is very similar to your pic here,and have always thought it to be a villosa.bye Ray
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on October 20, 2009, 12:05:14 PM
Ray,

Apologies for having duplicated.  I was just thinking of Iridaceae and thought of it being here.  I should have checked further, Sorry.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Maggi Young on October 20, 2009, 12:43:42 PM
No problem, Folks, the two topics are now merged and in Bulbs General.  :)
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on October 20, 2009, 12:55:25 PM
Ray,

Somehow I had completely missed this topic before now, which is why I didn't realise to add to it.  Ray, you have some stunning Moraeas, more than half the varieties you show I don't grow.  That dark villosa in the first post, both the oranges, and that vivid tricolor are all amazing.  Some crackers of photos.  Beautiful!!  I am going to have to try to track down some of them..... where do you source yours (if you don't mind me asking)?

Maggi, thanks for merging these, if for no other reason than I got to see Ray's topic that I had somehow missed.  ::)  Obviously my senile dementia is getting even worse.  :o
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 20, 2009, 02:40:14 PM
WOW!! :o Does it live in Zone 8?
I think 'no' would be the answer. I have a friend about four miles from me who successfully grows M. huttonii against a south facing wall, with its roots under a paved path. I suspect this is the only species that could survive?
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: mark smyth on October 20, 2009, 06:52:55 PM
Margaret Glynn grows Moraea huttonii outside on the rockery
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Darren on October 20, 2009, 07:24:52 PM
Most of the Drakensberg (summer growing species) should do OK unprotected in UK gardens. I grow huttonii and alticola outside in a sunny border. huttonii is evergreen even in hard winters like the last one. I wonder if anyone in the UK grows the lovely little blue flowered M.alpina? It should be hardy & it has been on seed exchange lists but both times I've had it it turned out to be the cape species M.debilis.

The Cape species are more frost tender and I grow them under glass but some of the lovely peacock types illustrated above flower very sparsely here - low light intensity? Those that do flower well are:  atropunctata, ciliata, debilis, vegeta, gawleri, loubseri (though this is prone to taking a year off) & bipartita.

As I said, the peacock types like aristata and villosa are very shy flowering with me - I really wish they weren't! Tulbaghensis and gigandra are in the same group but mine are not yet big enough to attempt flowering so I wonder if I will ever see the flowers even when they are...






Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 20, 2009, 10:24:06 PM
Ray, I love this genus, and your pictures make me crazy !!!
Not very easy to find species in Europe, so I've some seedlings growing ....too slowly  >:( and still waiting for flowers.
thank's for sharing this jewels
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 20, 2009, 11:38:17 PM
Maybe that's why Gynandriris sysirinchium is now a species of Moraea?
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on October 21, 2009, 12:25:05 AM
Anthony,

I'll hopefully be uploading some pics today of Gynandriris pritzelliana, now Moraea pritzelliana (I think the species spelling is correct, but must check that one).  They are just like tiny Moraeas, so I can understand why they have gone into there.  If Moraea vegeta is a Moraea, then the Gynandriris are certainly very similar to that.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Ray on October 21, 2009, 10:20:13 AM
Some more Moraea's bye Ray

 Moraea fugax.jpg
 Moraea pritzeliana.jpg.... edit by maggi: see next page for discussion re naming of these!  
 Moraea setifolia.jpg   
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on October 21, 2009, 12:41:43 PM
Anthony,

And now there is no need to upload the pritzeliana as Ray has already done so.  Nor the setifolia for that matter.  ::)

As the saying goes.... you snooze, you lose.  I didn't get them uploaded this afternoon.  ::)

Great pics, Ray.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: dominique on October 21, 2009, 01:33:39 PM
Ray
Thank you. Absolutely nice and fine plants
Dom
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Susan Band on October 21, 2009, 07:29:07 PM
Lots more lovely things to add to next years Silverhills list  ;) They have most moreas down as hardyness 8, worth a try here.
Susan
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 22, 2009, 12:04:34 PM
Some more Moraea's bye Ray

Ray, these are just delicious - the colours, the spottiness, so, so, cool  8)
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: fermi de Sousa on October 26, 2009, 03:25:20 AM
Hi Ray,
I particularly like your pale yellow M. fugax and that nicely spotted M pritzeliana!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on October 26, 2009, 04:53:30 AM
Ray et al,

I was talking to someone with more knowledge than me on these various Moraeas (i.e simulans, pritzeliana and setifolia etc) as to what the differences are.  I need to do some more research, but his comment was that pritzeliana should have no spotting at all.  Mine under the pritzeliana name doesn't have any spots, while my simulans does, and the setifolia is much smaller than the two of them.  I think I have pics of all 3 if anyone is interested.  I want to do some more research to find out what is what before trying to say who has the correctly named things.... so often we get plants that are incorrectly named and never realise it until seeing pics like this where we notice big differences to the things we have in our own collection.

Fermi, Moraea fugax comes in at least white through yellow, and I think I recall reading it also comes in a mauve form?  Not sure about the later.  I have (or at least did have) a white, and a yellow that is darker than Ray's.  It is in flower here at the moment.  I can't think where my white fugax is unfortunately, which may mean it has gone to the Goddess!!  ::)
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: fermi de Sousa on October 26, 2009, 06:55:03 AM
There are more moraeas to come but this one is flowering nicely this year; lemon coloured Moraea (was Homeria)
[attachthumb=1]

The next one is a rather fleeting one, small (less than 1" in diameter); any guesses?(Paul suggests M. setifolia)
[attachthumb=2][attachthumb=3]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on October 26, 2009, 09:16:32 AM
Fermi,

At that size, probably setifolia (I think I have the right name).  I will check my camera for the photos I took yesterday and are still on there.  I photographed the labels at the time I photographed the plants.  Is the smallest of the 3 I referred to above.  Cute little things, that is for sure.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Ray on October 26, 2009, 09:34:54 AM
Hi Paul,have been doing a bit of research myself and looks like what I have been calling M pritzeliana is really M simulans,but that name is not on the Kew register,
so now I have to go looking for the real thing.
Agree with your ID of Fermi Moraea. bye Ray
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on October 26, 2009, 10:55:41 AM
Ray,

I have the true pritzeliana I think, at least it doesn't have spots and is a larger flower than the setifolia I have.  I still haven't uploaded the pics from my camera though, so can't show comparative photos.  I took photos of all 3 of them when they had flowers out, just so I had all 3 in the same sort of light.  ;D  If it is correct then I have enough to share, as it is a good pot of them and they will set seed freely if I let them I think.  Of course, if we have suitable cross pollinators then the seed wouldn't necessarily be true as the simulans is right next to it.

As to the name.... according to here....
http://www.gbif.net/species/browse/resource/8113/taxon/21345209/
if you follow down through the heirarchy the name is in the International Plant Names Index.  Not sure exactly what that means.  Attributed to "Baker" by the looks of it?
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on November 03, 2009, 10:24:21 AM
Howdy All,

This is Moraea papillionacea.  Tiny little flowers maybe 1.5cm wide, if that.  Sets seed very easily as you can see by the seed pod next to it.  I only just noticed it flowering, and there are already a couple of pods on it.  Been in amongst grass and weeds so I am lucky to see any of the flowers at all.  ::)  It shows the interesting things you can find when you try to clean some of your pots up.  :o

Please click on the pic for a larger version.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Darren on November 03, 2009, 10:38:15 AM
Lovely little flower Paul. I have something similar with 3 different labels (vegeta, gawleri, tricolor). I think this little complex is a bit muddled in the seed exchanges!

I recall seeing a slightly bigger flowered yellow/orange M. papillonacea growing in the lawn of a hotel/chalet park in Cape Town, just like daisies here growing right down in the turf. Unfortunately it was dusk when I spotted them and could not get a picture.

Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on November 03, 2009, 10:51:51 AM
Darren,

As far as I know Moraea vegeta (or at least the one I have had) is larger flowered than this one.  I think M. tricolor has 3 distinct colours in the flower (I don't have it, so only second hand knowledge), whereas this one is more blended (if you know what I mean).  I think it also has a larger flower as well.  This one of mine is tiny, probably around the size of M. setifolia.  If it is incorrectly named then I would very much like to know so I can have it accurately labelled.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Michael J Campbell on November 03, 2009, 11:40:51 AM
Paul here is Moraea tricolour, I have a pic of Vegeta somewhere but I can't find it at the moment.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Darren on November 03, 2009, 12:38:48 PM
I can check the monograph later Paul. Michael's tricolour looks right from the description I remember reading when trying (and failing) to get accurately named seed.

Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Darren on November 03, 2009, 06:10:31 PM
Hi Paul,

The Moraea monograph describes M papilionacea thus;

"....outer sepals 22-28mm.... flowers bright salmon pink or yellow...pollen red or yellow...leaves, spathes etc finely pubescent" 

The size is hard to translate but allowing for the tepal reflexing a little (and the flower of this species is described as 'spreading') it suggests a flower diameter of around 3-4cm.

Moraea vegeta is described as outer tepals 20-25mm but they are more reflexed so a flower diameter in plan-view of 15mm is quite possible for this.

The give-away might be the colour of the pollen - if it is pale blue then it is likely your flower is a form of M.vegeta.

I'm pretty sure all my plants labelled 'vegeta', 'tricolour' and 'gawleri' are vegeta. Thank you seed donors :'(
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on November 03, 2009, 10:26:56 PM
Darren,

Could you please check the size descriptions for M. setifolia please if you have them there?  What size is it supposed to be?  This one is similar in size to that, perhaps even a bit smaller, and both of them are smaller than any other Moraea that I grow.  If you look at my pic you can see that the flower is pretty much flat too, no reflexing backwards.  What you see in the picture is all of the flower, not some of it lost by reflexing.  It is a small, round, mostly flat flower.... quite cute but easy to miss with the colour.  But you're right, the description of the species does not match what I have.  ::)  It was from seed, but I don't know now where that seed came from.  I recall the flowers on this one being tiny in the past, so I don't think it is just a product of neglect that is making the flowers smaller.

Thanks.

P.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: fermi de Sousa on November 05, 2009, 02:53:14 AM
Paul,
thanks for your suggestion; I think you may be right and mine is M. setifolia.

This one is labelled Moraea cedarmontana and was grown from Silverhill Seeds; I hadn't noticed it for a few years and think it may have liked our wetter than usual early spring.
[attachthumb=1][attachthumb=2]

cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Darren on November 05, 2009, 12:38:06 PM
Sorry Paul, didn't read this until today. The monograph pre-dates the inclusion of the Gynandriris group into Moraea but I'll look tonight, meanwhile I agree with your identification of it based upon my own plants (if correct) which are very similar if slightly paler in colour and, to be honest, not nearly as nice.  I'd post a pic but the flowers are so fleeting that I usually miss them at their best!

Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on November 05, 2009, 09:49:59 PM
Darren,

I think you're saying that mine would be correctly named?  The problem is that the flowers are maybe 15mm wide in total, nowhere near the size of papillionacea according to the monograph, so I am not at all sure what I have.  As I think I've mentioned before.... I recall them always having been very small flowers, so I don't believe it is a cultural thing this year.  I quite like it, whatever it is, but I would like to sort out the name for it if I can, as I can pass on seed to people if interested in it.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Darren on November 07, 2009, 09:51:00 AM
My mistake Paul - I was referring to Fermi's setifolia. Still undecided about your papillionacea but looks closer to vegeta. Can I see blue pollen in your picture (through the 'arms')?
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Paul T on November 07, 2009, 10:40:33 AM
Darren,

No, I think that is shading of purple on the styles.  I'll see whether there are any more flowers and have a look at pollen colour for you.  The flowers were so small I didn't take an angled shot, just one form above unfortunately.  I normally take a few different angles of a flower.  I have no idea whether there are any more buds still to come, but I'll try to remember to check tomorrow.

There is a picture of Moraea papillionacea in the latest Pacific Bulb Society Journal (arrived today) and it looks nothing like mine.  Could be a colour form difference, but I am doubtful.  I haven't read the article as yet, but saw the picture when I opened it.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Ray on August 20, 2010, 10:08:00 AM
Moraea season down south again,
M cilata and M tricolor,bye Ray
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Ray on October 01, 2010, 11:38:48 AM
Forms of Moraea villosa and M tulbaghensis,bye Ray
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Ragged Robin on October 01, 2010, 12:59:08 PM
Fabulous Ray, what great forms and extraordinary colour combinations image 0999 is my favourite  :)
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: David Nicholson on October 01, 2010, 01:53:49 PM
Cracking selection Ray.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: Roma on October 01, 2010, 07:46:13 PM
Love those Moraeas, Ray.  Wish I could grow them here.
Title: Re: Moraea
Post by: BULBISSIME on October 01, 2010, 09:34:42 PM
WONDERFUL plants and Pics ray  :o
I'm jealous...
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