Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Seedy Subjects! => Seeds Wanted => Topic started by: melbee on August 31, 2009, 01:20:13 PM
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I love mandragora of all types I have quite a few plants of Officinarum, Autumnalis and Turcomanica and others of doubtful parentage .
I would be very interested in getting Mandragora caulescens and Mandragora shebbearei seeds .I would of course be willing to pay hard cash, swap for other seeds in my collection , sing or sell family members into slavery .I will pay postage or come and collect, nowhere is to far .As Dianna Ross said "ain't no mountain high enough" :)
regards
Mel
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Mel,
Welcome. I'm assuming that none of your family members are likely to be reading this forum then? ;) ;D If they are, then you've just given them warning to start running. Can't help you with the Mandrake, as I don't grow any of them at all. Welcome to the forum from this part of Australia. 8)
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Well no, they have all gone shopping but I am sure they wouldn't mind .When you are searching for seeds someone has to make sacrifices ;D
Thanks for the welcome Paul
Mel
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Welcome to the Forum, melbee!
Do you live in the UK? ..... might make a difference to who might be able to swap seeds with you... we have Forum members around the world and some countries have very strict import laws. ( That's especially true for packaged family members! :o ;D :D )
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I live in the UK just up the road from Cambridge .If I have to sell all of them into slavery for the mandragora seeds I will just use a large wooden box and mark it up as machine parts .They do it in films all the time . ;D
Thanks for the welcome
Mel
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I live in the UK just up the road from Cambridge .If I have to sell all of them into slavery for the mandragora seeds I will just use a large wooden box and mark it up as machine parts .They do it in films all the time . ;D
Thanks for the welcome
Mel
That's true! Glad to see you have thought through your cunning plan ;)
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Out of interest, just had a look at the RHS plantfinder for Mandragora species.... not an overwhelming number of stockists......
Mandragora caulescens
Spinneywell Nursery,
Waterlane, Oakridge,
Bisley, Gloucestershire,
GL6 7PH
Wendy Asher
Telephone (01452) 770151 or 770092 / 07986 887158Email
wendy.spinneywell@virgin.net
Website
www.spinneywellplants.co.uk
Mandragora autumnalis
Bob Brown/Vicky Parkhouse
Address
Sands Lane, Badsey, Evesham, Worcestershire, WR11 7EZ
United Kingdom
Telephone
Nursery: (01386) 833849 or Mail Order: (01386) 422829 / 07812 833849
Fax
nursery (01386) 49844
Email
info@cgf.net
Website
www.cgf.net
Mandragora officinarum suppliers
Arne Herbs
Bristol, BS40 8QW
www.arneherbs.co.uk
Beeches Nursery
Saffron Walden, Essex,
CB10 2HB
www.beechesnursery.co.uk
Cally Gardens
Castle Douglas, Kirkcudbrightshire,
DG7 2DJ
www.callygardens.co.uk
Cotswold Garden Flowers
Evesham, Worcestershire,
WR11 7EZ
www.cgf.net
Elsworth Herbs
Sidmouth, Devon,
EX10 8HS
email for catalogue: john.twibell@btinternet.com
Green Garden Herbs
Carlton, North Yorkshire,
DN14 9PZ
www.greengardenherbs.co.uk
Poyntzfield Herb Nursery
Dingwall, Ross-shire,
IV7 8LX
www.poyntzfieldherbs.co.uk
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Hi
thanks very much for the list I have started to go through it .I will let you know how I get on
Regards
Mel
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I hadn't realized that Mandragora was such an enthralling genus. Interesting yes, and I'm delighted with the seeds of M. officinarum Rodger W sent to me (yes, we are allowed to have it), but selling famly into slavery? Seems extreme for a mandrake.
If R's seed germinates well and grows on, I may have to get more dogs.
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If R's seed germinates well and grows on, I may have to get more dogs.
When I first got into mandrakes, well over 20 years ago, I started with seed from the RHS of Mandragora officinarum ssp. haussknechtii. At some point I went looking for information about starting mandrake from seed; no book I owned had any information, and in those long-ago days we didn't have the net and Google to help. Finally I found a note in Miller's Gardener's Dictionary, 1730 edition, that said it was important to sow fresh seed.
The seeds of M. officinarum are rather plump, and I suspect that they don't tolerate hard drying off.
Moral: if you get mandrake seed (and I've sent several ounces combined to the SRGC & AGS exchanges), sow it immediately, perhaps after a reviving soak. Then be patient.
I must add that when I've sown my own seed fresh from the fruit, I still get fairly low germination, 20-30%.
PS: If anyone is still growing ssp. haussknechtii, I'd love to get seed of it again. It's the Turkish form of M. officinarum.
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I have most of the replies back from the enquiries at the nurseries supplied by Maggi young .No luck at the moment .
PS: If anyone is still growing ssp. haussknechtii, I'd love to get seed of it again. It's the Turkish form of M. officinarum.
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This is quite interesting .I have just looked at a picture of M. haussknechtii to me this looks like a Spanish Autumn mandrake have you got a picture or a description of your haussknechtii.I do have the turcomanica but it is a much bigger plant and darker flowers .There are a few problems with identification of mandragora .
Does anyone know if the seeds exchanges have Mandragora caulescens
Mel
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At a quick search, SRGC exchange has not had any Mandragoras for thre last two years . :'(
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Mandragora officinarum was on the AGS Exchange last time.
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Mandragora officinarum was on the AGS Exchange last time.
Mandragora officinarum has been on the AGS seed list every year for the last 8 years (which is as long as I have been working on it and have the figures). Never in great quantities, but hopefully enough to satisfy demand. My own plant was grown from AGS seed some years ago, and I have sent seed back in for the last few years. This year my plant flowered well and produced more seed than usual.
the following pictures show the plant in flower earlier this year, the fruits taken from the plant and cut open to dry, and the seed drying off.
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The pictures of the mandrake plant and fruits are very intersting .I am particularly intersted in the colour of the flowers and the size and texture of the leaf .Did the leaves stay crumpled up like that or did they flatten out .Also what was the actual colour of the flowers .They look more blue than green
Mel
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The pictures of the mandrake plant and fruits are very intersting .I am particularly intersted in the colour of the flowers and the size and texture of the leaf .Did the leaves stay crumpled up like that or did they flatten out .Also what was the actual colour of the flowers .They look more blue than green
Mel
This picture was taken when the flowers first opened in March, so the leaves were only just coming through. They then do open up and flatten up into quite large leaves, perhaps up to 30cm long. I can't remember the exact colour of the flowers, maybe the photo is deceptive, I would have described them as muddy-cream
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I like the photographs have you got any more, I love to look at mandrake snaps What compost is the mandrake planted in it looks like a rockery . Do you have problems with slugs eating the leaves ?
The Israelis are very interested in the mandragora officinarum fruit .They make a drink from it .Has anyone ever tasted the fruit .I must admit that because of the toxic nature of the root I have viewed the whole plant with a good deal of caution .
Anyway I have had very little luck with the Mandragora caulescens and M. shebbearei seed search .There are some beautiful pictures of the plant .But I have found no one that actually grows it .When I first came on site I thought I read that someone was growing it I might have been mistaken
Mel
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I think, Mel, that the photos shown on the Forum have been pix from the gardens of friends of forumists, rather than the actual forumists' plants! :(
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I think you are correct .Perhaps they will get in contact with me. I feel quite confident that some seeds will turn up eventually .Mainly due to my constant delusional positive mental attitude .I have found that persistence is better than intelligence in these types of things ;D
Mel
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I like the photographs have you got any more, I love to look at mandrake snaps What compost is the mandrake planted in it looks like a rockery . Do you have problems with slugs eating the leaves ?
My plant is actually growing in a gravel path. Something does eat the leaves, although I didn't think it was slugs. It is usually quite late in the season when the leaves are large and not particularly attractive, so it doesn't harm the plant.
The Israelis are very interested in the mandragora officinarum fruit .They make a drink from it .Has anyone ever tasted the fruit .I must admit that because of the toxic nature of the root I have viewed the whole plant with a good deal of caution .
I am surprised that anyone makes a drink from the plant as I would have thought it poisonous. Is it an alcoholic drink? Are the toxins removed or made harmless in some way?
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Mandragora autumnalis is a common plant in this region, all parts of the plant are highly toxic [Contains high level of Atropin] accept the fruits when fully rippen.
Seeds are also toxic and that is why the Arabs call this plant 'Mad people's Apple' because if you eat the fruit with the seeds you spend sometime elsewhere..
The rippen fruits have very nice perfume and remind the taste of an Ananas, some people use to make a liqueur from these fruits and lately even available commercially.
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... some people use to make a liqueur from these fruits ...
a liqueur to make the heart race ;D
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As Ashley says it is a brew to make the heart race and other parts of the body also ;D.
Please could you tell me how is the fruit prepared for consumption ?Are the seeds removed and the skin and the inner pulp eaten or fermented ?In Israel is the M.officinarum as common as the Autumnalis .In England the stinging nettle and dandelion are very common ,is the mandrake as common as those .I am asking because I am actually running short of Autumn mandrake seeds .
Also how do you get a quote to come up in that little blue box ?
Still no sign of the Mandragora caulescens and M. shebbearei seed.
Mel
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Also how do you get a quote to come up in that little blue box ?
Mel
To get a quote in a box, Mell, just click on the QUOTE button at the top right of the post you want to quote ...
Quote Modify Remove .......
then you can leave the whole quote ot chop out any bit that is not relevant ......seemples... as a TV Meerkat has said! !
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Mel,
M. autumnalis is the only species to grow here, interestingly there are two distinct forms, one with rigid, flat, gray leaves and the other with soft, more erect green leaves.
This phenomenon wasn't study yet and some think we might have two separate species here.
There are many folkloric believes regarding this plant such as if your chicken doesn't want to sit on her eggs you have to feed her with some seeds of Mandragora.
Off course many believes of it being used as natural Viagra, uses for fertility.
And as a cure for snakes and scorpions bits.
The fruit is eaten by removing the seeds.
It is a common plant growing id different altitudes and soils, it is an early bloomer thanks to the structure of the plant that manages to collect the water and canalize it to its roots, often you can find it in flower just a few weeks after the first rain.
I have very few spear seeds, pm if you wish to have some.
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Hello again
High winds in Cambridgeshire tonight; I was watering my plant with the hose and had it all blow back on me, got soaked.
Would you have a picture of the two different forms . I am very interested in them .I like to study stem length ; flower colour, size and aroma which incidentally is very weak but oddly attractive .A bit like my next door neighbour .
There are many folkloric believes regarding this plant such as if your chicken doesn't want to sit on her eggs you have to feed her with some seeds of Mandragora.
I think there is a great deal of European folklore about mandrake mostly from the 17th century involving hanging people who were caught with the roots
Mel
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two pictures of a mandrago in flower. This was collected as ripe berries near K'maras in Turkey.
This one has jagged leaves and I have another from the same area with rounded leaves but this has not flowered yet. They are summer dormant.
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Mandragora officinarum was on the AGS Exchange last time.
Mandragora officinarum has been on the AGS seed list every year for the last 8 years (which is as long as I have been working on it and have the figures). Never in great quantities, but hopefully enough to satisfy demand. My own plant was grown from AGS seed some years ago, and I have sent seed back in for the last few years. This year my plant flowered well and produced more seed than usual.
the following pictures show the plant in flower earlier this year, the fruits taken from the plant and cut open to dry, and the seed drying off.
Wow, those leaves look like swiss chard!! :o
What an interesting plant.
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Hoots mon I've gone all wobbly at the knees. These pics are definitely for the centre fold of mandragora monthly. ;D
They are interesting flowers .Are you saying you took the pictures or that you have the plants and seeds ?
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I am saying I have grown them from seed I collected in Turkey and these are photgraphs of the plant in flower today in my greenhouse.
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Very nice looking plants .Are they in pots ?
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Hi Mel,
The only place I know of that have plants of Mandragora caulescens is Larz Danielson on Spezialplant. The plants are over for this year but he hopes to have plants for sale autumn 2010.
Ulla
www.spezialplant.nu
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Wow, those leaves look like swiss chard!! :o What an interesting plant.
But as the old botanists were wont to say, it's for "the gardens of the curious." Mandragora officinarum is not, no matter which way you cut it or chop the logic, a "pretty" plant. In fact, it's downright ugly. If you want to adorn your perennial beds and rock gardens with something that looks like a slightly delusional Swiss chard, mandrake's your boy, however.
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Wow, those leaves look like swiss chard!! :o What an interesting plant.
But as the old botanists were wont to say, it's for "the gardens of the curious." Mandragora officinarum is not, no matter which way you cut it or chop the logic, a "pretty" plant. In fact, it's downright ugly. If you want to adorn your perennial beds and rock gardens with something that looks like a slightly delusional Swiss chard, mandrake's your boy, however.
So, Rodger, we can call it cute ;)
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I love mandrakes I think they are beautiful .Glorious flowers and the colours wow .What do botanist know of beauty.
I shall now write a poem in celebration of the mandrake .
Oh mandrake what beauty in thy celestial note, how must better than a chop in the frote
Amongst your leaves of greenest dye more glory than a thumb in the eye .
Come on you lot admit it I'm good ;D ha ha ah
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But as the old botanists were wont to say, it's for "the gardens of the curious." Mandragora officinarum is not, no matter which way you cut it or chop the logic, a "pretty" plant. In fact, it's downright ugly. If you want to adorn your perennial beds and rock gardens with something that looks like a slightly delusional Swiss chard, mandrake's your boy, however.
And some seeds from this very gentleman are germinating here, this very day. 8) Three up overnight. :D
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Love the poem Melbee. Perhaps you could perform for some other "odd" plants like Arisaema and Arum? ;D
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I love mandrakes I think they are beautiful .Glorious flowers and the colours wow .What do botanist know of beauty.
I shall now write a poem in celebration of the mandrake .
Oh mandrake what beauty in thy celestial note, how must better than a chop in the frote
Amongst your leaves of greenest dye more glory than a thumb in the eye .
Come on you lot admit it I'm good ;D ha ha ah
Mel,by some chance are you related to William Topaz McGonagall? ;D
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Puff Puff....
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McGonagal what a poet ;D
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Rodger might call em ugly, but the pics of the flowers and leaves look rather nice to my eye. At least on the computer screen anyway. 8)
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Mandrake leaves are strange... they are rather coarse in appearance, giving, to my eye, every indication of their poisonous nature but, at the same time, they are regularly chomped by slugs, snails and caterpillars.... you'd wonder why, wouldn't you??!! ???
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some varieties of mandrake leaf are smooth .I have just looked up the mandrake in my culpepers herbal he says "The leaves are cooling and are used in ointments and other external applications. "I wouldn't want to risk it myself there are quite high levels of barking mad chemicals present .
Slugs grrruuuuuuuuurrr :(
Does anyone know if the picture in culpepers book of the mandrake is the original picture from the 1600s ?
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Who has seeds?
Share
Can send to me?
From Taiwan
Thanks
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This is poisonous
The form root looks like ginsengs
Want this seed
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It kills excellent pain if taken enough humans too. 8)
It is not at all related to ginseng. I would love to grow it again. Lost all my plants some years ago.
I had plants from Rhodos (Greece) and some seed grown from GB.
From the rhodos type are some left in the garden of my sister in Rome. But she never gets fruits. :P
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I think what our friend from Taiwan means is that both roots resemble the human form with arms and legs and other appendages .The two roots also have similar folk lore .In china people were burned as witches for owning a root the same as Europe in the 17th century .
But of course Ginseng is a healthful tonic . Eating mandragora officinarum (mandrake) will turn you into a drooling barking mad dead person.
If you would like some mandragora officinarum (mandrake) seeds email me .
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A drooling, barking mad person who is dead? That's scary. :o
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A drooling, barking mad person who is dead? That's scary. :o
Well, it should be scary! It's a zombie Melbee is describing.
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Ah, I didn't think of them and thought zombies were kind of alive but with no life in them if you see what I mean, whereas someone barking mad would be pretty lively I'd think. So it seems I know quite a few zombies and I thought they were just idiots. :D
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ahaaaaaaaaaa you have spotted my weakness ,punctuation and sentence structure .Which is suprising when you consider how good I am at poetry .
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You certainly are Melbee, and I hope you'll treat us to some more soon.
I also like the drooling, barking mad comment, then the offer of seeds of the plant that will do the trick. No hidden agenda, I hope. ;D
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No hidden agendas really .I probably do what every one else does, wash the car, clean the windows, do a bit of gardening, consider leading a zombie army to total world domination .That sort of thing, muhaaaa muhaaaa ;D
Anyway I have a serious question .The mandragora officinarum fruit .Its usual colour is green to yellow .On the rare occasions I have had fruit I have pulled them when they were dark green .Has anyone seen a red one ? Is it a green or yellow one that is over ripe?
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Mine have certainly only been green even when ripe and about the size of a chicken egg.
The Turkish ones were yellow and red on different plants but only the size of quails eggs (just introducing a bit of class there)
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Aren't Turkish mandragora considered to be subspecies haussknechtii?
I had seed of that abt 30 years from the RHS, and grew the plants to flowering & fruiting size, but lost them when I moved house and they froze to death in pots. I've never seen seed of that subspecies again. Brian Mathew once saw them on a visit here and opined that they were what they claimed to be. I don't recall that they differed from the mandrakes I now have, which arrived as plain old Mandragora officinarum.
Footnote implicit in the preceding paragraph: I have dug up mandrakes and can attest that they screamed not, neither did blind or insane I go, though drooling, barking mad remains a distinct possibility.
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I understood it referred to eating not digging. 8) ;D
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Aren't Turkish mandragora considered to be subspecies haussknechtii?
I had seed of that abt 30 years from the RHS, and grew the plants to flowering & fruiting size, but lost them when I moved house and they froze to death in pots. I've never seen seed of that subspecies again. Brian Mathew once saw them on a visit here and opined that they were what they claimed to be. I don't recall that they differed from the mandrakes I now have, which arrived as plain old Mandragora officinarum.
One of my two species from Turkey is autumnale and the other is possibly ssp haussknechtii. I collected ripe fruits of both and this is how I obtained my seed. I grow officinarum in the garden and have put pictures of its fruit earlier in the thread. The fruits from Turkey have no resemblance to those and are as I said in my previous post.Unfortunately I was so excited at seeing and collecting them I forgot to photograph them. They may of course not be Mandragora only time will tell.
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I understood it referred to eating not digging. 8) ;D
Axel,
That depends whether you watch Harry Potter or not. ;D
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I understood it referred to eating not digging. 8) ;D
Axel,
That depends whether you watch Harry Potter or not. ;D
Note to self: Try to make 2010 the year I read the Harry Potter books...... :-\
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Note to self: Try to make 2010 the year I read the Harry Potter books...
You wouldn't Maggi,would you? ;D
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Note to self: Try to make 2010 the year I read the Harry Potter books...
You wouldn't Maggi,would you? ;D
Probably not, Michael! They don't seem to be the subject of discussion of every child about nowadays, as they were a few years ago..... that was when I thought I really ought to read them so I wasn't being left out of the conversation with any Littlees! :D
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Aha! The Harry Potter books! My impression is that Rowland doesn't work out her plots in sufficient detail before she really buckles down to business. As a result, in all four I've read, about 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through, she has to introduce some hitherto unanticipated element (i.e. a deus ex machina) into the plot so she can start tying up loose ends. It put me off enough I've never bothered to read the last 3 in the series.
It's a rule of good fiction that all surprise developments are foreshadowed. The classic example is the murder mystery on the last page of which Max Carrados announces "the butler did it" and you, the reader, go aha! why didn't I see that: page 2 made it obvious (in retrospect).
Rowland's lack of foresight is similar to that of movie maker John Waters. About the same distance into one of his crazy movies, the plot goes completely off the rails; however, he doesn't do the d. ex. m. trick. Instead, he lets the viewers writhe in agony.
A much more adult series with something of the same flavor is Jack Vance's "Lyonesse" series. Gollancz is publishing them in a single volume in the spring. There will be a pop quiz in May.
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I planned to read the Harry Potters in 2010 too Maggi. Now I think I won't but I've not seen any of the Lord of the Rings movies either. NOT a good Kiwi. :o