Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Ray on August 24, 2009, 03:38:58 AM
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An ID for this one thanks bye Ray
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Ray,
I can't quite tell from the pictures.... does the stem branch at all, or is it multiple singular flower stems arising from the centre? If the latter, then it is Erythronium multiscapoideum, but if it branches above ground then it isn't that species.
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Hi Paul,the flower spike is about 8ins tall and it has another spike coming from about 3ins up that same stem.bye Ray
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Ray,
OK, if it branches above ground then it takes out the multiscapoideum. There are a couple of different species, so will have to do some research to try to work out which it is, unless it is one of the named varieties. Did you buy it as a plant or grow it from seed?
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Hi Paul,these have been grown from seed,only have a couple of cultivars and they have not flowered as yet. bye Ray,
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That prominent yellow eye reminds me of E. helenae.
I'm sure I have a key to Erythronium in the house somewhere, but can't remember just what book or file folder it's in. If I find it, I'll see what it suggests.
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Ray from the details I can see in the picture I would suggest E. californicum.
Based on the white pollen straight style, yellow zone in centre with some degree of markings.
To confirm the ID you will need to check the filaments which if it is E. californicum will be slender and ribbon like.
Nice plant - is there an Erythronioum species that is not great?
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Thanks Ian. I'd hoped someone in the know would ID. Like Rodger I was leanign towards helenae, but needed to go and look up the differences with californicum etc to find out the key features. 8)
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Hi Paul,Ian & Roger,thanks for the replies.E helenae will be flowering in a week or two so hopefully they will be both flowering at the same time and I will be able to compare them.
I have often seen the word "keys" used in ID plants and assuming that this is a botanical description of a plant,were would I find these keys if I wanted to ID Erythronium's or any other genus.thanks bye Ray
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E helenae will be flowering in a week or two so hopefully they will be both flowering at the same time and I will be able to compare them.
I have often seen the word "keys" used in ID plants and assuming that this is a botanical description of a plant,were would I find these keys if I wanted to ID Erythronium's or any other genus.
For Pacific coast erythronium, the single best key would be in the Jepson Manual "Higher Plants of California".
Keys aren't just botanical descriptions. The usual design calls for you to compare your plant to a yes-no type of question and depending on the answer, you go to one or another question. The process repeats (with different questions at each stage) until you end up at species. Writing a good botanical key is not easy -- and many of them are hard to use.
My recollection of the key to Erythronium in the latest Jepson Manual is that it's pretty easy to use and depends solely on the characteristics of the flower, with the exception of asking if the leaves are plain green or (mottled, marked, or marbled).
You probably won't find the Jepson manual in an ordinary public library but check the nearest university or ask the botanists there if anyone has a copy.
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Hi Ray,
E helenae has yellow anthers and E californicum has white anthers. Just cheched out the key here at work. Surprised you have E helenae as its rare in Australia.
cheers
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Hi Ray,
E helenae has yellow anthers and E californicum has white anthers. Just cheched out the key here at work. Surprised you have E helenae as its rare in Australia.
cheers
It's been grown in Victoria for many years ;D
I only have one but it's the one Erythronium which returns each year!
cheers
fermi
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Fermi,
I have it here too I think. Doesn't multiply for me either though.
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Hi Rodger,thanks for that info.
Hi Stephen,the label says E helenae,but this will be its first year flowering so time will tell if I really have this species.bye Ray
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There are a number of very closely related Erythronium species that have similar flowers which are basically white with a yellow centre. To identify the species you have to check the colour of the leaves, the shape of the filaments, the colour of the pollen, the tip of the style and the swollen appendages at the base of the floral segments..
One of the main features I use to identify E helenae is the bent style plus it has a beautiful scent.
I have posted pictures of both E helenae and californicum below to help.
I must add that the keys work well when dealing with true species but in cultivation there are many hybrids that are intermediate so will not key out.
E helenae and E. californicum hybridise and I have named on E. 'Craigton Cream'.
I have never had a true form of E helenae that increases well despite what has been written about it being a ' rapid increaser', however the hybrids do increase well leading me to believe that the original author of that statement was growing a hybrid.
I would love to be proven wrong and if some one does have a true E helenae that increases well it would be wonderful as it is a beautiful species with such a lovely scent I would Love to have drifts of it in our garden.
Below
E. californicum
E helenae
click on the photos to enlarge them-
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Hi Ian,thanks for the info,just by looking at mine and your californicum it seems that mine has a deeper colour in the eye zone and stronger markings,butI have got the plant and if I can get the correct name thats a bonus. bye Ray
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Fermi thats good to hear.
Ian your posted pics show the differance in the colour of the pollen and is a dead give away.
E helenae I have is wild source and like you say never increases but i have never noticed the scent, will have to sniff it when its out.
cheers
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The label says E howellii,but it looks like I have 3 species or 3 variants of one species.
Although I have the E key this species is not on it.They all have mottled leaves,but one has dark green leaves and brown markings,in the pics one flower is fully out andthere is another spike about 3 ins from the base the other one is just opening,the third is about 2 weeks from flowering but it has a spike of about 5 flowers on the end of the spike.So i would like to know what you think I have .thanks bye Ray
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Ray,
I'll leave this to those who are more in the know. Once you've sorted this one out, I'll post a pic of similar Erythroniums (but not the same) which I need to work out whether they are hybrids or just a bit of variability. I'll leave yours to be sorted out first though, rather than putting a second lot in here.
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Ray, you need to have a good look at the inner parts of the flowers.... you're looking for auricles... "swollen saccate appendages" at the base of the floral segments.......E. howellii does not have these but E. citrinum does.
There seems to be quite a variation in the overall look of your flowers and if the auricle question cannot be clearly answered, then you've likely got hybrids of some sort. ::) 8)
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Hi Maggi,will get back to you tomorrow about that. bye Ray
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Hi Maggi,not sure what I am looking for,the only thing I could find was what looks like little lumps at the bottom of the petals as per pics.Do you have any pic of these auricles? thanks bye Ray
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If that stigma is twisted downwards then that should define it as E. helenae
cheers
fermi
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Good photos, Ray.
Yes, those bumpy bits are the auricles.... so.... NOT E. howellii then. The style does seem bent so that suggests E. helenae. Is this the flower in your pic 223 above?
Pic 224 with the whiter pollen seems NOT to have a bent style so might be citrinum ..... or they could be hybrids :-\
I think the "technical term" for what you have there is a pot of mixed widgets ;D ;)
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H Maggi,this is the same flower as pic 223 and it does have a slight perfume.Pic 224 also has auricles but the style is not bent as much,it is also the one with dark green leaves with the brown markings.It will be interesting to see what the next one is,it has 8 flower buds and atm the buds are upward facing.Thanks for your help,and today has not been a total loss I have learnt were to find auricles! bye Ray
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Pic 224 with the whiter pollen seems NOT to have a bent style so might be citrinum ..... or they could be hybrids :-\
I think the "technical term" for what you have there is a pot of mixed widgets ;D ;)
And that is why the seed of Pacific coast erythroniums from my garden is aggregated and sent to the exchanges as a lucky dip that might include chance hybrids. Watch for at a seed exchange near you.
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Sensible move, Rodger.... of course, as the Bulb Despot never tires of telling us; every Erythronium is beautiful and a blessing to this planet, so they are all worthy of our adoration and attention! 8)
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Hi Maggi & Rodger,it would appear that I am being very naive to expect that the seed I buy from commercial seed people would turn out to be what I have not ordered.This is 2nd time in as many weeks that this has happened,as I only have a small collection it doesn't really matter as I get some species that I don't have anyway,but I would be really cheesed of if I already had it.
So watch this space because there will be more ID's coming :). bye Ray