Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
Specific Families and Genera => Iris => Topic started by: arillady on July 25, 2009, 09:08:30 AM
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Iris atropurpurea - the first aril to flower this season
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Pat,
Rich, velvety goodness. It looks good enough to eat. :o
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Lovely Iris pictures Pat.
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Pat,
Very lovely Iris; me like... :P ;)
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Pat,
a wonderful Iris, never saw such a dark one.
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Hello Pat,
it is wonderful to see this flower at this time of the year when we on the northern part of the world still have to wait about 6 months! :D
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SUPERB Pat !!!
the black iris is here !
Like Hans, very nice to see flowers now; it's like a second spring for us, many thank's
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really nice :o
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Awesome flower Pat !! :o
Just love it !!
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Thanks for all the comments on the atropurpurea photos. I will get out there for som of the haynei group which should be flowering by now. So very thankful that these arils grow here so well.
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Pat,
what a wonderful way to start your Spring. Please send fotos of as many as you can, as I would love to see shots of the plants I have seed from. ;D
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Iris haynei photos taken this morning and this afternoon after rain.
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Pat two nice black that You are showing us. :o 8)
I hope there is more to come, extra nice since our irises in Northen hem is starting to go down.
They do seem to like it at Your place so well done.
Kind regards
Joakim
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Iris haynei photos taken this morning and this afternoon after rain.
Hi Pat,
Great healthy plants and such a dark colour is the colour variable in the species
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I was battling against strong winds this evening to take photos of the arils flowering.
I will post one that is kind of in focus of Iris hermona hybrid dark form on the left (very large flowered and the stems had curled around - hence my hand in the photo) and Iris haynei (still flowering with more buds to come). I have pollinated both with themselves (well the same clump but a different rhizome so I hope they take) Also collected some anthers to dry and save for later or to share.
Pat
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Oh Pat. That hermona hybrid is gorgeous! :o
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Only just caught up with your beautiful black Iris atropurpurea, Pat, it's so striking........and the combination of Iris hermona hybrid dark form and Iris haynei is great :)
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Splendid pics and plants Pat, !
They look so healthy, and nice clumps too....
Congratulations
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Excellent stuff, Pat!
cheers
fermi
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Iris atropurpurea again in two place in the garden
and an unknown aril which came up in a spot that looked like a grave - hence the name - after I moved what I thought was all from that site. Seed must have been left behind to germinate later on. I have a couple of these patches now.
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Beautiful, Pat. I just love the markings on your grave iris. Wow! :o :o
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Great stuff Pat - I agree with Paul, the Graveyard form looks stunning !
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A few of the arils flowering today
Iris haynei hybrid
Iris hermona dark form
PT0137 which is one of my crosses from 2001. I like this one - first time it has flowered I think.
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Pat,
All lovely, the haynei hybrid in particular.
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All lovely Pat.
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A few of the aril hybrids flowering lately and some of the patches in bloom.
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Glorious pictures and flowers Pat !! :o
They do seem to like your "bed" treatment a lot ! :D
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Pat,
you're killing me with these fotos! Wow, these are subtle beauties. Thanks for sharing!
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Glorious plants, Pat! :o
Thanks for showing also the enviroment where they grow.
Not sure, but the plant labeled as Thor seems to be 100% Onco (and this percentage would be to high ::))
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Hans,
I am not quite catching you meaning about Thor. Please explain a little more.
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Thor is mentioned as a Regeliocyclus (Intersectional Hybrid between Onco + Regelia) made by C.G. van Tubergen - often mentioned to be a hybrid of I. korolkowii x I. sari. a picture here: http://www.litbulbgarden.com/ss/227.html
This Iris normally produces two bluish flowers per flowerstalk while a pure Onco only should produce one.
By the elegant shape of your "Thor" and because it seems your plant has only one flower per stalk I think yours is a pure (and very beautiful) Onco.
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Uhm I understand now. I should have looked up the ASI checklist when I received the rhizomes. Just took the name to be gospel. I did not think to question it. Must get back to my source about the name.
Just the dark colour made me think it was OK I guess.
Thanks Hans.
Pat
I will post a photo on the ARILROBIN forum and see if anyone knows it.
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Hello Pat - I wish you good luck in ID your plant, it will not be easy without help of your source. The combination of such a dark flower with dark bracts might help to find it if it is a named cultivar. Even the dark flowering species show this combination rarly.
First idea was it could be a cross of Iris haynei X Iris kirkwoodii/Iris sofarana subsp. kasruwana, but this is only one possibility among others...
Maybe someone else has an idea?
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Seems that my source of Not Thor has the real Thor - there must have been a mix up of some sort in 2006 when he sent me the rhizome. We are going to do a swap as he doesn't have the Not Thor and I would like the real Thor.
Thanks for your thoughts Hans.
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You`re welcome - could you find out what Not Thor is? A really nice one...
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Just over half way in the flowering of the arils.
PT0201 Iris susiana x sib
PT0157 Iris hermona hyb x I. samariae hyb.
PT9847 (Turkish Pendant x Close Contact) x Whither Thou Goest
Assorted good hybrids ex Tirat Tsvi (David Shahak) in 1990/92
Various choice hybrids ex Tirat Tsvi (David Shahak) in 1996
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Forgot to say that I was able to take photos due to stillness and sunshine for once. A few crosses have been able to be attempted.
I have been trying a little harder with the photos to get them straight on as a friend is playing with the some of my photos to use in screen printing -removing background etc.
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Another WOW! Pat, the seedling from Wither Thou Goest looks to be a nice break into veined ABs. Hope you register it.
Thanks for sharing these. With the failing Sun of Autumn, they bring a bit of Spring light into the season.
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Thanks Jamie.
Anticipation of blooms to come.....
Iris kirkwoodii ex BIS ex MB France
Iris paradoxa coll. USSR ex Alan McMurtrie seed - first flowering. There are smaller leaves under the front of these larger ones so I will be very interested to see what this clump produces.
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Pat, I don't like very much hybrids, but your last pic is .....(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Surpris/3d-surpris-non.gif)
Your plants looks so healthy !!!
Thank's for sharing, and congratulations !!!
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Pat,
Breathtaking irises!! Wow! All beautiful, but I just adore the shading of Asstgood (second last pic in your last 5 flower pics). Amazing plants. Did Marcus H's 'Thor' come from you (and therefore is "not Thor"? I got one from him this year, which is why I am asking. Yours is gorgeous!!
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Paul I got my Not Thor from Marcus H. But he does not know it. He does have the real Thor so we are going to swap this year.
I have quite a few with slight variation in the Assorted Good Hybrid irises that you like.
Assortedgood.TT90.92.12NW.8.9.09.jpg 017 (Small)
AsstdghTT90lortetiilike.nwcnr.19.9.09.jpg 010 (Large)
asstdgoodhyblortetiilike.TT90.sw12.16.9.09.jpg 011 (Medium)
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STUNNING !!!! Pat :)
they looks like species ;D
really fantastic flowers.
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Great plants, Pat!
Hope you show us also a picture of the both species in flower. The clump of I. paradoxa looks really huge
:o
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Thanks Pat.
Middle one of those 3 is stunning. Love the veining in the standards and the great colour in the falls. Beautiful!!
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Still waiting on these to flower
Iris paradoxa
Iris kirkwoodii
Iris paradoxa ex USSR
Iris iberica ssp elegantissima
If you look under and in front of the Iris paradoxa ex USSR I think the wee one is the real one and the other taller one is a ???? till it flowers.
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Iris kirkwoodii seed BIS128 2004 donated by MB France
with grand daughter Mackenzie in one shot
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They both look lovely Pat !! ;)
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Congratulations Pat! Really wonderful plant!
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Wonderfull patch Pat !!!
They looks healthy and so robust !!
They also looks like I. sofarana, very close species.
Many thank's to show us such beauties at the begining of autumn here ;D
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Stunning Pat!!
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Paul I got my Not Thor from Marcus H. But he does not know it. He does have the real Thor so we are going to swap this year.
I have quite a few with slight variation in the Assorted Good Hybrid irises that you like.
Assortedgood.TT90.92.12NW.8.9.09.jpg 017 (Small)
AsstdghTT90lortetiilike.nwcnr.19.9.09.jpg 010 (Large)
asstdgoodhyblortetiilike.TT90.sw12.16.9.09.jpg 011 (Medium)
I like these too Pat - so unusual and delicate but your Iris kirkwoodii is just gorgeous in its markings...are they actually brown?
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Beautiful, Pat.
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My Iris kirkwoodii has a real black purple on white standards. The falls seem to be on a grey white ground with much blacker purple markings. The rain may have brought out more of the purple in the dye. Not good to get it on you hands or a light coloured benchtop.
I have taken a couple more photos that I will download later today.
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I thought to get the nearest to the right colour for this Iris kirkwoodii I would pick a standard, fall and style and put them on the scanner bed. Standards 4" x 3 1/4" Falls 3 1/2" x 2 1/2" (so considerably smaller and the lovely black signal and the dark dark purple black beard hairs are lost in the photos. The style is 2 1/2" x 1" in the narrow part and 1 1//2" across the style crest (had to look up a diagram for the right names of the style part)
The first photo was with a white sheet of paper over the top the second with the lid supported by two matchboxes to raise the lid and then a dark towel put over the top to cut out light and the third one like the second but with the reverses of the parts shown.
The flower that I pulled apart was a couple of days old and after two days of light rain.
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Great pics, Pat. Fascinating to see the detail like that. Such an intricate pattern. 8)
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This flowers patterns and colours are simply jewells !!!
Many thank's Pat to have cutted your flowers....
Are trying to get seeds ??
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Thank you all for your encouraging words. I am pleased at how well the plants look.
Fred I don't think I have another Iris kirkwoodii clump that will flower this year so there will not be any seed. I will collect the stamens on the next flower and hope it is not raining when it blooms.
A question which someone may be able to help with: The clump next to the Iris kirkwoodii( see September 29th) is labelled Iris paradoxa ex USSR from Alan McMurtrie seed. As I usually plant the whole lot of a seed packet in the same pot I have a small paradoxa in front of the clump (and this has light gray-green smallish leaves with a sickle shape whereas the taller growing section is light to mid green leafed and not so sickle shaped. Two different plants but until the flowering stem flowers I will not know what it is. Finally the question: what other irises grow in the USSR where Iris paradoxa is likely to have been collected? Guess I should contact Alan McM and ask him. Or just wait patiently for it to flower and reveal itself.
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Pat, your photocopy pictures are extraordinary (ingenious setup!) and show the markings on the different parts of the iris so well - it is a stunning Onco and I love the dusky colour combination. How tall is the plant? Maybe your granddaughter could show us :D
Thanks for all the trouble you took to show everything so clearly :)
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You might be interested on the advice in this page on taking pictures without cameras:
http://www.nccpg.com/gloucestershire/scan.html
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Pat,
the only plant that comes to mind is I. camillae, which would be a wonderfull surprise! I take it your seed was collected in the trans caucasus area. Both I. camillae and I iberica are found growing together, but I've found no reference to I. paradoxa with other plants, which must occur. The following species have been reported from Russia, but this is a big country.
I. acutiloba C.A Mey.
I. camillae Grossh.
I. ewbankiana Foster
I. grossheimii Woronow ex Grossh.
I. helena C. Koch (C. Koch)
I. iberica Hoffm.
I. lycotis Woronow
I. paradoxa Steven
I. schelkownikowii (Fomin) Fomin
Hope this helps, but i suspect the answer will be forthcoming in the next week.
Jamie
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Pat, you could try to self it. Results will not be fantastic but maybe you will get a few seeds.
Of the large list Jamie posted most can be discarded because of the size of the plant (similar to the size of paradoxa or smaller) - only Iris lycotis and Iris iberica are the two species which are normally bigger and do not have such sickle shaped leaves (most of the mentioned smaller species also have sickle shaped leaves)- but who knows, as Jamie mentioned, Russia is a big country. ;)
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Brian I tried to copy and paste or print this article and I wasn't allowed to. Would love to so that I can refer to it when trying it. I will just have to save the page link and refer to it that way when next I try it.
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Thanks Brian for that link - I forgot to thank you in my excitement!
I have saved the link for future.
Thanks Jamie for the list but I have a feeling it is not in the Onco group of irises and might even be some other bulb or Iridacea altogether. There is a part on the flowering stem that I don't know what it is called but I have not seen it on oncos. The flowering stem seems familiar and I will possibly be red faced when it flowers. As Hans says it tall and I grow camillae so I know that is far smaller - even to paradoxa in leaf size.
By the way Iris kirkwoodii is about a foot high without going up the hill again. From the ground to the tippy top of the flower. Or a touch taller. Tried a few more photos this afternoon that I will download later.
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Two more photos of Iris kirkwoodii - then I will give it a rest! ;)
Edit : to show kirkwoodii is listed as Iris kirkwoodiae Chaudhary
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Simply superb Pat :o
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Brian I tried to copy and paste or print this article and I wasn't allowed to. Would love to so that I can refer to it when trying it. I will just have to save the page link and refer to it that way when next I try it.
Pat you could try print screen and paste from clipboard into new file, then crop in Photoshop and then print - I use this quite a lot when only a para or just choosing sections.
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Sent to your email Pat ;)
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Thanks for the helpful suggestions folks.
There is a nice bud developing on a new Iris paradoxa from Marcus this year.
Also at least 8 seed pods on the Iris planifolia I showed earlier this year.
Only a few more arils thinking about flowering as the arilbreds start their bloom season.
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:o agree with fred - superb! :o
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Pat,
If all else fails, try photographing your screen, then editing the picture etc for printing. Sounds like a long process, but if you can't get it to print and you aren't able to capture it by printscreen, then taking a pic of the screen is always another option. 8)
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I had not checked the arils for a day or two so I was delighted when I saw:
Iris paradoxa ex Alan McMurtrie seed
Iris paradoxa ssp choschab Ruksans ex Marcus Harvey 2009
and the rhizome that was believed to be Iris susiana from a lady in Mt Gambier in South Australia which seems to be an older arilbred.
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Pat,
The Iris paradoxa ssp choschab in particular is beautiful. A shame the last one isn't the real susiana. I remember you mentioning a while ago that you were hoping it was as it has gone from commerce.
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Beautiful plants, Pat - a pitty the names do not fit.
First and also second paradoxa seem to be Iris sari from Turkey - possibly second one could be a hybrid with paradoxa var. choschab. If you are interested I will check if have some seeds of the varities left I could send you.
Best,
Hans
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Ah well Hans at least they are arils - I do not mind them being Iris sari at all - you can see I have not flowered any of these before or I would have had time to check that they were correct. Just seeing these in flower for the first time was good enough for me.
I would LOVE some seed please Hans.
Three wrong plants in one post - do I get the prize???
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Hi Pat. I would say both of the first 2 pictures are Sari as it is a variable species. The third is most likely an Arilbred,
I'll go thru the illustrated checklist sometime and try to ID it.
John
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I also agree with Hans and Arilnut : I. sari for sure !
and very nice plants Pat :)
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I find it amazing that two plants - via plant or seed from two sources both made the same mistakes somehow. Both saying they were paradoxa and both being actually sari - both different forms too.
thanks all for pointing me in the right direction Hans, John and Fred.
What should I do with the pollen - they are drying in film canisters without lids at the moment. There is another bud coming on the McMurtrie clump (from seed)
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What should I do with the pollen - they are drying in film canisters without lids at the moment. There is another bud coming on the McMurtrie clump (from seed)
Pat Toolan,
Keyneton,
South Australia
Pat do you have any Regelia species? If so use it on them. Maybe you can come up with some new worthwhile
RC's to introduce.
John
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An old print of Iris acutiloba ssp schelkownikowii which reminded me of
my seed grown plant ex Alan McMurtrie seed collected in USSR shown recently
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Pat,
it really is a dead ringer. What bothers me is that it doesn't resemble the nominate form of I. acutiloba. Köhleim lists I. schelkownikowii as a seperate species, which makes visual sense. The only distinct characters listed are a delicate scent and a yellow beard. Found between Baku and Tiflis on the left bank of the River Kura. Flowers are larger than I. acutiloba. Interestingly, I. sari is listed as belonging to a seperate group of oncos. To myself, the distinguishing features are not obvious! I know that I. sari and I. lupina should have crescent shaped signals, while I. acutiloba often is remarked as having a double signal (nested). As I've never seen them in bloom, I really have no idea. Photos don't seem to bear this out or are of poor quality?
Maybe someone else will have some closer experience?
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Pat,
It is a lovely plant, but I don't think it is Iris acutiloba ssp schelkownikowii, I think it is Iris sari.
Iris acutiloba is strongly veined and has a small and rounded brown or blackish signal patch (Iris acutiloba ssp schelkownikowii has a yellow beard like Jamie mentioned, unlike the brownish or purplish beard of Iris acutiloba and also it is a larger plant than Iris acutiloba).
Your plant doesn't show such a strong veines pattern as should be in Iris acutiloba (or Iris acutiloba ssp schelkownikowii). Also, the signal patch of your plant is larger than should be in Iris acutiloba.
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In Oncos 2008 (Oncos in flower) I posted a similar I.sari - originally distributed by Pilous about 10 years ago.
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Wow, Hans. Lovely.
I still love yours, Pat. Whatever their names. 8)
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Miriam thanks for all the clarifying points between the two species. I was not saying they were the same but that the plant reminded me of the print - I have noted the stronger veining in the I. schelkownikowii print which Mathew states is a relative of I. acutiloba. I do accept that I am growing Iris sari. It will be good to see my clones of Iris sari flower sometime soon - fingers crossed for this year. We have had strong winds and rain for the last couple of days and more forecast so it will be hard to do any pollinating.
John I have not grown many regelia so far - some are coming on from seed.
Jamie I do remember details so much more once I have grown a species - details seem to sink in better. Identifying from photos is always fraught with danger.
It would be such a joy to be able to do botanical illustration. The time alone to do them ....! But the details in that old print are amazing.
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It would be such a joy to be able to do botanical illustration. The time alone to do them ....! But the details in that old print are amazing.
Pat, just send air ticket to Rafa, and you'll get your botanical illustrations !!! ;D ;D
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It would be such a joy to be able to do botanical illustration. The time alone to do them ....! But the details in that old print are amazing.
Pat, just send air ticket to Rafa, and you'll get your botanical illustrations !!! ;D ;D
Pat , cheaper and quicker would be for you to send some of your blooms by overnight Air Express to Susan Jarick ( friend of Marcus Harvey) in Hobart - Tas.She is a marvellous Botanical Artist .
one of your I .urmiensis hyb. she painted a few years ago - a print undera plastic cover
Otto.
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Otto I will do that next year now as there is only a couple more to bloom. What a great suggestion.
As to Rafa's airfare, accommodation, meals etc - if only! We can dream can't we - like my trip to the land of the arils when they are in bloom.
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Very nice painting !!!
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Another Iris sari was developing a bud nicely until our little white snails (which have been in plague proportions near the arils this year) snapped off the flowering stem with their chewing (or whatever snails do). I found it had been eaten through so I grabbed it and put it in water inside - not thinking that it would come to anything but was pleasantly surprised when I saw that it had opened up.
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Pat, looks closer to Iris stolonifera than I. sari ???
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I knew I should have walked back up the hill to check that it was Iris sari and not another. It is a bed that I have not written up yet.
I seem to be having a red face quite often here. I will go for a hop, skip and jump and check the label NOW
OK another wrong label as it says Iris sari small form.
Yes it is certainly I. stolonifera when I checked Mathew. Well it is the first time that this species has flowered for me.
But I did notice that Dardanas has a flower which I must photograph first thing in the morning - and hope the wind dies now a bit before then. Too dark now for photos. Also noticed an Iris purpureobracteata that needs to be photographed. Haven't had a chance to get in the garden for a couple of days!!
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pat,
a beautiful I. stolonifera, with that white beard. I have one clone with a partially white beard, but it is then tipped in turquoise. I hope you make some crosses with the pollen.
jamie
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Dardanus was buffeted by the wind all night and while I was trying to photograph it.
Dardanus is an RC by Van Tubergen. Iris korlkowii concolor x Iris iberica
It reminds me of some that were featured in an old Van Tubergen catalogue from KAV
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Jamie I have saved the pollen - not so good about the wasp that I tweezered at the same time as the pollen.
By the way Iris stolonifera is next to the not Iris sari that I posted the other day so maybe the labels got switched somehow. When I plant out a few in a bed I try to do it alphabetically in case labels get moved.
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Your Dardanus is so sumptuous Pat 8)
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Pat,
Glorious!! I hope mine flowers one of these years. Looking far better this year than it ever has before, but then it had proper summer treatment for a change. Offsetting freely now which is brilliant as well. Fingers crossed for next year. Seeing your pic certainly gives me something to look forward to, that is for sure!! :o
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A wonderful flower Pat !!!
Gorgeous ! :o
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Aslightly better picture of Dardanus taken in the evening - still windy though.
BY the way Paul the seeds arrived yesterday - many thanks for passing them on.
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Dardanus had its last flower on the 30th and when checking what was flowering after a 35C day I found Antiope in flower. It is a new iris for me this year. Very subdued colouring but exquisite.
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PS. I checked the ASI Illustrated Checklist before posting this time.
It is an unregistered named aril hybrid.
Antiope R (A. Hoog N.R.) AR. Selected regelia. [AAAA]
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Pat,
Oh I do so like Dardanus. I hope mine gets big enough this year to flower next season. It has doubled in size this year so it is obviously happier than it has been before...... much of this thanks to advice from people such as yourself here on the forums!!
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Oh I do so like Dardanus
So do I, you're photo is stunning Pat and I love the backdrop of grasses making the last flower of this gorgeous Iris stand out.
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Pat,
I have written Antoine Hoog about Antiope, which he tells me was found in a bed of I. hoogiana. He believes it to be a selection of the species, but I disagree, finding the brown edging simply too similar to I. hoogiana x I. stolonifera selections. Until now, I've not been able to look at its chromosomes, but this may shed some light on the matter.
it hasn't proved to be as easy as other regelia hybrids for me.
jamie
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Jamie thanks for you comments on Antiope. Interesting. Have you seen Dr G. I. Rodionenko's book The Genus Iris L
(Questions of Morphology, Biology, Evolution and Systematics) put out by the British Iris Society in 1987.
I think this book would be your 'Cup of Tea".