Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Plant Identification => Plant Identification Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Luc Gilgemyn on July 04, 2009, 11:07:39 AM

Title: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on July 04, 2009, 11:07:39 AM
Further on the discussion of the previous weeks regarding wrongly named seed, I've got some items sown early this year which
look quite suspicious to me.  :-\ :-\ Could anybody confirm or deny following ID's ?

1 & 2) Silene elisabethae ?? - sorry, nr 1 is a bit blurry
3 & 4) Silene hookeri ingramii ??
5) Campanula barbata
6) Campanula raineri

All help is much appreciated !  ;)
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: arisaema on July 04, 2009, 12:40:01 PM
That last one looks an awful lot like a Symphyandra...
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Hristo on July 04, 2009, 12:45:25 PM
Hi Luc,
Here we go.....
We have had your number 1&2 from the seed ex and it turned out to be Lychnis flos-jovis.
Your number 3 looks for all the world like Lychnis coronaria and Simon remembers someone mentioning they received Lychnis coronaria as Silene hookeri ingramii.
Your campanulas look campanula like but from experience they don't look like the leaves of barbata or raineri!
Hope this ties in with what you were thinking.
Best wishes
Chris
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on July 04, 2009, 08:06:41 PM
Thanks for your help gents !!
My suspicions were confirmed.
I believe it was Maggi who mentioned something about Silene hookeri always turning into Lychnis coronaria...
That makes 4 out of 4 being the wrong plants... not a very good record...  :'( :'(
One can hardly look upon that as honest mistakes can one ??  :( :(
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: maggiepie on July 04, 2009, 08:50:01 PM
I too have some campanula seedlings, the seeds came from trades and seedex lists ( what is the plural of seedex anyway? ???)

Would be great if someone can ID them.

Campanula alpestris
C. aucheri
C. barbata
C. barbata alba
C. mystery ( lost the tag  :'()
C.patula
C. primulifolia
C. sarmatica
C. saxifraga

Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Lori S. on July 04, 2009, 09:30:35 PM
Hi, Helen,
The first one is certainly not C. alpestris - it should have elongated spatulate leaves covered in bristly, backward-pointing white hairs... (at least compared to my seed-grown ones which flowered this year and seem to be authentic).
Your C. barbata may be correct... they show roughly the correct leaf shape (though mine are more elongate... perhaps due to older plants/older leaves) and hirsute character.
(I'd have to go out and find my C. sarmatica, wherever I moved it to... but yours seems likely correct, off-hand.)
C. saxifraga may also be correct... the elongated, spatulate leaves with slightly crenulated edges again seem to match my seed grown, seemingly-authentic ones.
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: maggiepie on July 04, 2009, 09:42:57 PM
Thanks Lori, so that's one definite ring in.
Not sure if I should reef it out or leave it until it flowers. ???
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Lori S. on July 04, 2009, 09:56:59 PM
Gosh yes, might as well wait until it flowers! 
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 04, 2009, 11:25:26 PM
No 1 looks more like a Symphyandra (related to Campanula) and the last could well be saxifraga. Saxifraga, aucheri and tridentata are all quite similar though the latter tends to have quite shiny foliage. No 2 is not aucheri and the mystery is, I think, another symphyandra, perhaps the same as the first one. Barbata, at least the first one, looks pretty right.
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Sinchets on July 05, 2009, 02:26:17 PM
I agree with the last being C.saxifraga, or a member of that group, with its blunt-ended and toothed leaf. Number 1 looks to me like C.allairifolia, or a related species such as C.makaschvilii, as does your mystery species.
I am sure the leaves of C.sarmatica should be longer and more spear-shaped.
The one you have as C.aucheri doesn't look right either.
Your C.patula could be true- or it could be the similar C.rapunculus.
I do agree with Lori- don't turf them out- just be careful where you plant them until you can be sure.
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: fermi de Sousa on July 06, 2009, 05:59:02 AM
Further on the discussion of the previous weeks regarding wrongly named seed, I've got some items sown early this year which
look quite suspicious to me.  :-\ :-\ Could anybody confirm or deny following ID's ?

1 & 2) Silene elisabethae ?? - sorry, nr 1 is a bit blurry
3 & 4) Silene hookeri ingramii ??
5) Campanula barbata
6) Campanula raineri

All help is much appreciated !  ;)
Hi Luc,
I think the first one is a Silene, but the rather common Silene armeria (called "Aunt Mary" by a friend who was the first to give me a plant), a common imposter but not too weedy! ;D
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: maggiepie on July 06, 2009, 11:19:39 AM
Lesley, is symphandra invasive?
Thanks for your help.

Simon, thanks for your input. I think I might leave the patula in a pot until it flowers if you think it could be C.rapunculus.
After googling, I see that rapunculus is a biennial that can be used as a vegetable.
So think I will plant it in the veggie garden and see what happens :)
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Sinchets on July 06, 2009, 12:08:29 PM
C.rapunculus doesn't run from the root like C.rapunculoides- so it's quite safe. In my experienceit seeds around lightly, but I usually leave it when it sows into stronger growing plants as they lend it support and I like the combination. C.patula does the same for me. I did have seeds of C.abietana once- which is similar but dwarfer, but I think these were C.patula too. I've never had the heart to use them as vegetables, though I read that's what they were grown for in the Middle Ages.
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Sinchets on July 06, 2009, 04:51:00 PM
Luc, here are 2 pics of Silene armeria following on from Fermi's suggestion. A self-sowing annual here- and native too.
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Lori S. on July 06, 2009, 04:51:30 PM
Symphyandras flower voluminously, and so self-seed hugely, but they don't run from the roots... at least, the ones I've grown.
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: maggiepie on July 06, 2009, 04:57:49 PM
Thanks Lori, I don't mind self seeding as long as I like the mother plant  :)
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Sinchets on July 06, 2009, 05:44:14 PM
The one I originally bought as Symphyandra armena sowed itself between the paving stones of my mothers patio- it looked quite nice as the constant traffic kept them small.
If it is a Symphyandra, or indeed Campanula alliarifolia, you should know quite soon as they are quick from seed to flower.
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Luc Gilgemyn on July 06, 2009, 05:45:25 PM
Luc, here are 2 pics of Silene armeria following on from Fermi's suggestion. A self-sowing annual here- and native too.

Thanks Fermi and Simon - it sure looks like S. armeria... far away from S. elisabethae  ::) ???
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 06, 2009, 10:10:54 PM
Simon could well be right about C. alliarifolia. However, if it IS a Symphyandra, Lori is right, non invasive except by freely produced seedlings. No problem to rmove most though and a few in odd cracks and crevices are very pretty. Thay are all, I think, or certainly most, monocarpic, hence the large quantities of fertile seed.
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 06, 2009, 10:13:12 PM
Luc, your last one looks a lot like Symphyandra armena, mentioned above by Simon. The flowers are like a violet-coloured bag, but open at the bottom instead of the top. :D
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Paul T on July 07, 2009, 02:00:29 AM
Simon,

Thanks, you've accidentally solved something I have been wondering for ages.... what the little pink weed is that appeared here a few years ago.  I'm still undecided as to whether to allow it to remain or not, as I think it might seed a bit too well here in my garden, but the few that have come up amongst the pots I have tended to live with.  Quite nice texture to the leaves and the bright pink head of flowers.... I just never realised it was a Silene.  Thank you kindly, Sir!!  8)
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Sinchets on July 07, 2009, 09:07:12 AM
No problem, Paul. It's never been so bad with me that a little light weeding out didn't control it, but you never know how happy it might be in Australia. Is it recorded as an introduced weed there- or are you still 'allowed' it?
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Zdenek on July 07, 2009, 02:11:52 PM
Luc, your last one looks a lot like Symphyandra armena, mentioned above by Simon. The flowers are like a violet-coloured bag, but open at the bottom instead of the top. :D
I am sorry, I think that the last Luc's picture is Symphyandra wanneri.
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Sinchets on July 07, 2009, 03:37:11 PM
Magnar has a lovely pic of S.wanneri on his site- see link
http://magnar.aspaker.no/Symphyandra%20wanneri.jpg (http://magnar.aspaker.no/Symphyandra%20wanneri.jpg)
Title: Re: Campanulas and Silene from seedex
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 07, 2009, 09:32:21 PM
Luc, your last one looks a lot like Symphyandra armena, mentioned above by Simon. The flowers are like a violet-coloured bag, but open at the bottom instead of the top. :D
I am sorry, I think that the last Luc's picture is Symphyandra wanneri.

You're right of course Zdenek. and I knew that all along. Just a momentary slip of the memory. A senior moment perhaps. The discription (flowers as "bags") shows I really know the plant even if the name went AWOL.
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