Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum
General Subjects => Plants Wanted Or For Exchange => Topic started by: jes on July 03, 2009, 08:04:02 PM
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Hi
I´m new - from denmark so pleas forgive me :-)
Can som help me with som seed/bulps from "Lilium speciosum var. gloriosoides". I must hawe on of this
Happy summer to all
Jes Rehder
Jr@hobo.dk
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Hello, Jes,
welcome to the forum. Hope that someone will be a ble to help you with your search for this lilium.
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Jim and Jenny Archibald have listed seed recently.
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Paul Christian rare plants often lists this
Göte
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Hello,
L. speciosum var. gloriosoides flowers very very late which makes producing ripe seeds a real challenge - the Archibalds pointed that out in their catalogue. They had seeds of this lily some years ago, but they were soon sold out. I did not see this item being listed again later. Also in the seedlist of the RHS Liliygroup, I saw it only once during the last 5 years.
Paul Christian also had this lily in his list 2 years ago and Pottertons nursery too, but as soon as it disappeared from the catalogue of Chen Yi (Kaichen-nursery) who was the first (and maybe the only one) who exported this lily to Europe and North America, it also disappeared on PC's and Potterton's list.
For reasons I simply don't know, L. speciosum var. gloriosoides is very difficult to keep for longer than one year. Since it was available from China for 3US$ for a long time, I think it was only imported and not commercially cultivated. Now, that the source has run out, there are probably no commercially cultivated bulbs of this lily available (at least in Europe - Fraser's Thimblefarms in North America are still selling bulbs of it but they do not export to Europe).
So -in my opinion- the only way of getting seeds/bulbs of Lilium speciosum var. gloriosoides in Europe now would be from pivate sources or non-commercially (Lily-)seed-exchanges (RHS, SRGC, NALS, Yahoo Lily-Forum,..).
Sorry for having no better news for you!
Erwin :'(
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I was fortunate to get some seed from the Archibalds but it never germinated.
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It is a bit difficult to deal with this lily, because L. speciosum var. gloriosoides is homonymous for 2 similar looking but clearly differring lilies:
.) the one from Taiwan germinates immediate epigeal at temperatures of about 15C and is not hardy, it is not (commercially) available
.) the one from the chinese mainland germinates delayed hypogeal (as the other L. speciosums do) and is hardy, imported from Chen Yi
There are also other differences (number of veins on the leaves, how the seeds are looking, ...) and it seems as if one of them will get specific rank soon (DNA-analysis currently ongoing)
When I am writing about L. speciosum var. gloriosoides, I refer to the chinese mainland-plant.
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The Taiwanese plant should be correctly called L. konishii, the mainland Chinese plant L. gloriosoides, and the Japanese plant L. speciosum. Abe and Tamura discussed all the varieties, then under L. speciosum, and acknowledged the differing phenology and morphology of the varieties. And, too my nose, L. gloriosoides has an even better and slightly different scent than L. speciosum. L. speciosum var. clivorum (ex Archibalds) is similar in scent, and the position of the flower buds -- L. s. clivorum and gloriosoides hold the immatrue buds downward, while all the other speciosum I have grown hold them up until flowering.
My L. gloriosoides all succumbed to bad soil, high pH, or just the inhospitable conditions in Kansas. It handled winter lows of -10F. When it flowered the capsules never ripened even there when first frosts arrived in October.
Aaron Floden
Knoxville, Tennessee
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Hi Aaron,
what is killing L. gloriosoides is still a question to be answered.
With me, it always died in the same way:
1.) lily starts growing - looking strong and healthy
2.) lily reaches it's final height, showing flower-buds - still no sign of a problem
3.) flower-buds grow larger - lower leaves start getting brown to black in color
4.) flower-buds don't get any larger or do not open - lower leaves are black and/or fallen down, more leaves getting brown/black.
5.) flower-buds fall off the plant - bulb has "disappeared".
Taking a look at the bulb in stage 4 shows that the bulb is decayed to a muddy brown mass which is happily being eaten up by millipedes, blackfly-larvae, ....
I think it is a fungal problem - although growing it in pure seramis/perlite was not successful, but problems started later (when seeds had started ripening). There are people reporting about their L. gloriosoides reaching heights of about 6-7 ft. growing in "normal" soil (together with rhododendrons, etc.).
I am still searching for their "key to success"...
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what is killing L. gloriosoides is still a question to be answered. With me, it always died in the same way:
Taking a look at the bulb in stage 4 shows that the bulb is decayed to a muddy brown mass which is happily being eaten up by millipedes, blackfly-larvae, ....
I think it is a fungal problem
If you think it's a fungus borne on the bulb itself, you may want to try disinfection by soaking in dilute hydrogen peroxide, H₂O₂.
The usual strength sold in pharmacies here is 3%, which would probably do the job. A drop or two of dishwashing liquid will act as a surfactant, lowering the surface tension and helping the liquid penetrate narrow spaces.
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Do you guys have a product called "Anti-Rot" over there? I've had it recommended for use with any soil-borne fungal problems but haven't used it myself (although I do own a container). Used as a drench it is supposedly pretty effective.
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Hi Everybody,
Hello Jes,
Ive seen Lilium speciosum var. gloriosoides listed in the spring 2006 Jacques Amand catalogue
( www.jacquesamand.com ) I don't know if it's still the case now but it might be checked when they open their web site again in autumn...
They had a good range of lilium listed.
Regards
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Benomyl / Benlate which used to be available works systemic and if the lily is sprayed the fungal attack at the bulb is stopped. At least it worked that way for me some forty years ago. It has other names too. Google will give them. You may have to go to Turkey to buy it, however.
It is a fairly safe substance really but one batch was contaminated by a weed killer and the resulting legal hassle in the US killed it in many markets.
Göte
PS
My gloriosoides also died in the way described. I did nothing to save it unfortunately. I assumed I had got a diseased bulb and intended to buy another. It survived the winter OK - admittedly a mild enter
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Hello Jes
To-day I have seen this lilium listed here :
www.planteursbrigaudiere.com/
in France.
Good luck ;)
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What a beautiful building at that nursery. I really like architecture with such stark and simple lines. It looks clean and elegant.
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Lesley, many old houses are like this ; it is the architecture style of this region in France
Regards
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Lesley, fleurbleue:
as soon as I saw that the lily was offered at www.planteursbrigaudiere.com, I wrote to them and received the following answer today:
"...BUT we don't have more Lilium speciosum gloriosoides !!! We have stopped this lilium culture : too dificult to keep in live. After many years, we can say that this bulb is realy able to flower the first summer, then, it becomes more little every year and dies ! That's why we cannot find it in Europe... It's a lovely flower of course but too fragile..."
Currently there seems to be no commercial source in europe at all.
The imports from China were so cheap (3 US$ per plant) that most speciality gardeners only traded with this lily and did not cultivate it. Others cultivated it but most (if not all) failed.
So we have to wait for new imports (if there will ever be one) or look for private gardeners who were successful in cultivating this glorious lily.
Erwin
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Sorry Erwin :-[
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Hello Erwin,
are you still looking for lilium glorosioides?
Pontus Wallstén
Switzerland
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Yes, Pontus!
I am still looking for this fantastic lily.
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I have this amazing lily available at my nursery :
http://pontuswallstenplants.smugmug.com/Flowers/autumn-2010-plant-catalogue/12188653_LcvHNF#!i=1628960035&k=jZbqBhC
these are established, rooted bulbs growing in plastic pots that i exhibit at shows. The price included the pot and special, expensive soil mix I have planted them in.
they sell out very fast as alot of people want it. They are still dormant, and probably will be for 10 more days, but 1 is already shooting.
kind regards
Pontus